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<a class="text-decoration-none" href="/posts/8768798-3-new-witnesses-whistleblower-speaks-again-major-skywatcher-changes"><div class="Episode-list-grid card-body pan">
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3 New Witnesses, Whistleblower Speaks Again, Major Skywatcher Changes
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<div class="text-line-clamp text-line-clamp-3 balanced-p fs-8 text-muted text-break">
Pre-order my new book: https://geni.us/AtlasOfUFOs
Signed Books: https://www.forumbooksshop.com/product/atlas-of-unidentified-flying-objects-and-unidentified-anomalous-phenomena-preorder-signed-dedicated-andy-mcgrillen-9781836006022/12753?cp=true&amp;sa=false&amp;sbp=false&amp;q=false&amp;category_id=36

A packed UFO news update: UAP hearing preview, Matthew Brown’s Immaculate Constellation, Skywatcher develop...
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<a class="text-decoration-none" href="/posts/8767494-pt-2-breakdown-chaos-hearings-new-ufo-whistleblowers"><div class="Episode-list-grid card-body pan">
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(Pt.2) Breakdown: Chaos, Hearings &amp; New UFO Whistleblowers
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<div class="text-line-clamp text-line-clamp-3 balanced-p fs-8 text-muted text-break">
**Part 2 of 2**

Pre-order my new book: https://geni.us/AtlasOfUFOs

We continue our discussion into your listener questions as Pavel, from the Psicoactivo podcast is with me to answer your questions.

Civilian Researchers and Technology

The Role of the Catholic Church and Secretive Organizations

Fear Mongering and Scientific Investigations

Psicoactivo: https://www.youtube.com/@psicoactivopo...
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<a class="text-decoration-none" href="/posts/8766042-breakdown-chaos-hearings-new-ufo-whistleblowers"><div class="Episode-list-grid card-body pan">
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Breakdown: Chaos, Hearings &amp; New UFO Whistleblowers
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With another set of UFO hearings on the horizon for early September, there are a lot of moving parts as first hand witnesses are said to be ready to testify , Skywatcher goes through some potentially major changes &amp; members of Congress argue online with big UFO names. To discuss this and a whole lot more I am enjoyed by Pavel Ibarra, from the Psicoactivo Podcast

Current State of UFO Hearings
F...
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1hr
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<span><span class="js-time" data-epochtime="1755771004" data-format="short_date">Aug 21, 2025</span></span>
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1hr
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<a class="text-decoration-none" href="/posts/8764862-pt-2-the-nazca-mummies-red-flags-revelations-w-will-brown"><div class="Episode-list-grid card-body pan">
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<h5 class="text-line-clamp text-line-clamp-3 balanced-h fs-6 fs-5-lg fw-normal mb-0">
(Pt.2) The Nazca Mummies: Red Flags &amp; Revelations, (w/Will Brown)
</h5>
<div class="text-line-clamp text-line-clamp-3 balanced-p fs-8 text-muted text-break">
Pre-Order my new book: https://geni.us/AtlasOfUFOs

In this episode Will Brown continues to discuss the Nazca mummies and answer your questions!

Listener questions and final reflections

Questions of authenticity, transparency, and peer review

Ancient civilizations, elongated skulls, and cultural practices

UFO sightings, artifacts, and potential hoaxes

Challenges in academic and online disc...
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43m
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<span><span class="js-time" data-epochtime="1755598260" data-format="short_date">Aug 19, 2025</span></span>
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<a class="text-decoration-none" href="/posts/8764421-the-nazca-mummies-red-flags-revelations-w-will-brown"><div class="Episode-list-grid card-body pan">
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The Nazca Mummies: Red Flags &amp; Revelations, (w/Will Brown)
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(Part 1 of 2)

Pre-Order my new book: https://geni.us/AtlasOfUFOs

In this episode I take another look at the ongoing Nazca Mummies saga with researcher, author, and filmmaker Will Brown. Will shares his firsthand experiences and insights on the controversial Nazca mummies, weaving together tales of elongated skulls, grave robbers, and potential ancient rituals. But, is there a Non-Human explan...
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1hr 7m
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<span><span class="js-time" data-epochtime="1755511860" data-format="short_date">Aug 18, 2025</span></span>
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1hr 7m
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UFO News Update: Luna on Rogan, Elizondo/SCIF controversy &amp; Loeb on &#39;Alien&#39; threat
</h5>
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*Pre-order my new book: https://geni.us/AtlasOfUFOs *

In this episode, Andy discusses the latest UFO stories including comments from Representative Anna Paulina Luna on the Joe Rogan Podcast, intriguing online exchanges between Luna and Lue Elizondo, and the hot topic of a potential alien object nearing Earth. Also included are updates on Ross Coulthart leaving &#39;Need to Know&#39;, the relevance of...
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<span><span class="js-time" data-epochtime="1755262649" data-format="short_date">Aug 15, 2025</span></span>
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<a class="text-decoration-none" href="/posts/8761558-pt-2-the-ufo-secrecy-playbook-it-s-been-used-before-chris-lehto"><div class="Episode-list-grid card-body pan">
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(Pt.2) The UFO Secrecy Playbook – It’s Been Used Before: Chris Lehto
</h5>
<div class="text-line-clamp text-line-clamp-3 balanced-p fs-8 text-muted text-break">
** Pre-order my new book: https://geni.us/AtlasOfUFOs **

Retired F-16 pilot Chris Lehto returns to discuss the state of UFO disclosure, the role of whistleblowers, and the growing frustration within the UFO community. We explore the impact of Cmdr. Fravor’s testimony, the decentralization of UFO research, media narratives, and how Chris’s military background shapes his view of the phenomenon.
...
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59m
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<span><span class="js-time" data-epochtime="1754907060" data-format="short_date">Aug 11, 2025</span></span>
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<a class="text-decoration-none" href="/posts/8759973-pt-1-secrets-stigma-and-sightings-chris-lehto-on-the-ufo-battlefield"><div class="Episode-list-grid card-body pan">
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(Pt.1) Secrets, Stigma, and Sightings: Chris Lehto on the UFO Battlefield 
</h5>
<div class="text-line-clamp text-line-clamp-3 balanced-p fs-8 text-muted text-break">
** Pre-order my new book: https://geni.us/AtlasOfUFOs **

Retired F-16 pilot Chris Lehto returns to discuss the state of UFO disclosure, the role of whistleblowers, and the growing frustration within the UFO community. We explore the impact of Cmdr. Fravor’s testimony, the decentralization of UFO research, media narratives, and how Chris’s military background shapes his view of the phenomenon.
...
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1hr 13m
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<span><span class="js-time" data-epochtime="1754643600" data-format="short_date">Aug 08, 2025</span></span>
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1hr 13m
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<a class="text-decoration-none" href="/posts/8758515-exploring-crop-circles-and-ufo-phenomena-an-interview-with-karen-alexander"><div class="Episode-list-grid card-body pan">
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<h5 class="text-line-clamp text-line-clamp-3 balanced-h fs-6 fs-5-lg fw-normal mb-0">
Exploring Crop Circles and UFO Phenomena: An Interview with Karen Alexander
</h5>
<div class="text-line-clamp text-line-clamp-3 balanced-p fs-8 text-muted text-break">
** Pre-order my new book: https://geni.us/AtlasOfUFOs **

In this episode, returning guest Karen Alexander, a Crop Circle researcher of over 30 years joins me to look at this years new Circles &amp; get into a bit of the history of the subject:

Karen Alexander’s Background in Crop Circles
What Are Crop Circles Really?
Scientific Investigations &amp; Surprising Findings
Are Crop Circles a Message or a ...
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58m
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<span><span class="js-time" data-epochtime="1754475060" data-format="short_date">Aug 06, 2025</span></span>
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<a class="text-decoration-none" href="/posts/8757898-from-thought-to-reality-are-uaps-manifesting-w-james-hodgkins"><div class="Episode-list-grid card-body pan">
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From Thought to Reality: Are UAPs Manifesting? w/James Hodgkins
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<div class="text-line-clamp text-line-clamp-3 balanced-p fs-8 text-muted text-break">
** Pre-order my new book: https://geni.us/AtlasOfUFOs **

In this episode, I sit down with James Hodgkins, one of Skywatchers&#39; psionic assets. We dive deep into the topics of consciousness, psionic phenomena, UFOs, and much more. James shares his personal experiences and thoughts on these subjects as well as his involvement with Sky Watcher.

Whistleblowers and Public Disclosure
Managing UFO In...
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<a class="text-decoration-none" href="/posts/8757503-exploring-psionic-phenomena-ufos-an-in-depth-conversation-with-james-hodgkins"><div class="Episode-list-grid card-body pan">
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Exploring Psionic Phenomena &amp; UFOs: An In-Depth Conversation with James Hodgkins
</h5>
<div class="text-line-clamp text-line-clamp-3 balanced-p fs-8 text-muted text-break">
** Pre-order my new book: https://geni.us/AtlasOfUFOs **

In this episode, I sit down with James Hodgkins, one of Skywatchers&#39; psionic assets. We dive deep into the topics of consciousness, psionic phenomena, UFOs, and much more. James shares his personal experiences and thoughts on these subjects as well as his involvement with Sky Watcher.

👇 Timestamps:
00:00 Welcome and Guest Introduction
0...
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1hr 22m
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<span><span class="js-time" data-epochtime="1754083592" data-format="short_date">Aug 01, 2025</span></span>
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<a class="text-decoration-none" href="/posts/8756555-ivan-hannel-on-elizondo-ufo-disclosure-and-a-new-insider-coming-forward"><div class="Episode-list-grid card-body pan">
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Ivan Hannel on Elizondo, UFO Disclosure – and a New Insider coming forward
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🎙️ Pre-order Andy’s new book Atlas of UFOs now: https://geni.us/AtlasOfUFOs
In this fascinating deep dive, I’m joined by Ivan Hannel — best known as the lawyer representing Luis “Lue” Elizondo, former head of AATIP — for a nearly two-hour conversation that explores the legal, political, and human sides of UFO disclosure.

We cover everything from the New York Times article that changed the game...
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1hr 43m
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<span><span class="js-time" data-epochtime="1753956660" data-format="short_date">Jul 31, 2025</span></span>
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1hr 43m
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<a class="text-decoration-none" href="/posts/8754574-ufo-black-sites-named-new-evidence-coming-soon-more"><div class="Episode-list-grid card-body pan">
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<h5 class="text-line-clamp text-line-clamp-3 balanced-h fs-6 fs-5-lg fw-normal mb-0">
UFO Black Sites Named, New Evidence Coming Soon &amp; More
</h5>
<div class="text-line-clamp text-line-clamp-3 balanced-p fs-8 text-muted text-break">
** Pre-order Atlas of UFOs: https://geni.us/AtlasOfUFOs **

Another busy week in UFO world, another UFO news round up with a few really interesting moments from Weaponized with Corbell &amp; Knapp, Diana Pasulka smashes an interview out the park &amp;. new evidence coming soon?

Corbell drops locations of UFO interest!
Dustin Slaughter bringing new evidence forward
Diana Pasulka interview with NYT
AARO...
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<span><span class="js-time" data-epochtime="1753477692" data-format="short_date">Jul 25, 2025</span></span>
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Breakdown: &#39;Sphere&#39; &amp; Loathing, Conciousness &amp; Breakaway Civilisations
</h5>
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** Pre-order Atlas of UFOs: https://geni.us/AtlasOfUFOs **

Carrying on the Breakdown, Dan stayed on with me to answer your questions on some of the news happening, including:

New &#39;Buga&#39;/&#39;Yumbo&#39; Sphere Controversy
Shades of Disclosure
Community Dynamics and Disinformation
Tic-Tac UFOs and Breakaway Civilizations
Human Technology vs. Alien Craft
Consciousness and Reality
Disclosure and Governme...
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<span><span class="js-time" data-epochtime="1753179060" data-format="short_date">Jul 22, 2025</span></span>
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<a class="text-decoration-none" href="/posts/8751246-breakdown-ufo-hearings-delayed-science-signals-secrets-pt-1"><div class="Episode-list-grid card-body pan">
<div class="l-flex align-items-baseline gap-2 gap-md-3">
<div class="vstack gap-1 my-auto">
<h5 class="text-line-clamp text-line-clamp-3 balanced-h fs-6 fs-5-lg fw-normal mb-0">
Breakdown: UFO Hearings Delayed – Science, Signals &amp; Secrets (Pt. 1)
</h5>
<div class="text-line-clamp text-line-clamp-3 balanced-p fs-8 text-muted text-break">
There is so much going on in the UFO/UAP world right now. I&#39;m joined by Dan to break down a whole load of news, including:

Delay to hearings

Potential witnesses for upcoming hearings

Garry Nolan&#39;s insights on UFOs and scientific skepticism

Electromagnetic signals and UAPs

Historical context and literature

DMT research and other dimensions

Tic-Tac UFOs and breakaway civilizations

Disclos...
</div>
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<span class="numeric-tabular d-sm-none">
1hr 11m
</span>
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<span><span class="js-time" data-epochtime="1752958800" data-format="short_date">Jul 19, 2025</span></span>
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<div class="d-none d-sm-grid" style="justify-self: center; align-items: center;">
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1hr 11m
</div>
</div>
</div>
</a></div>
<hr class="mvn mhs text-black-50 opacity-25">
<div class="card rounded-0 border-0 pas qa-audio-clip-overview" style="--bs-card-bg: transparent;">
<a class="text-decoration-none" href="/posts/8749449-ufo-hearings-delayed-coulthart-follow-up-sightings-increase"><div class="Episode-list-grid card-body pan">
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<div class="vstack gap-1 my-auto">
<h5 class="text-line-clamp text-line-clamp-3 balanced-h fs-6 fs-5-lg fw-normal mb-0">
UFO Hearings Delayed, Coulthart Follow-Up &amp; Sightings Increase
</h5>
<div class="text-line-clamp text-line-clamp-3 balanced-p fs-8 text-muted text-break">
Here is your latest news round-up from the last few days in the world of UFOs:

Ross Coulthart clarifies comments

Hearings delayed until September

Pilots of &#39;crash retrieval vehicles&#39; appearing?

NewsNation recap

Multiple reports drop on UFO sightings

NewsNation recap:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7z4a_GK-dkE

Canadian report:
https://science.gc.ca/site/science/en/office-chief-science-ad...
</div>
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<span><span class="js-time" data-epochtime="1752660660" data-format="short_date">Jul 16, 2025</span></span>
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24m
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<a class="text-decoration-none" href="/posts/8748137-breakdown-new-data-deception-missed-opportunities"><div class="Episode-list-grid card-body pan">
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<div class="vstack gap-1 my-auto">
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Breakdown: New data, deception &amp; missed opportunities
</h5>
<div class="text-line-clamp text-line-clamp-3 balanced-p fs-8 text-muted text-break">
We continue to look at the news stories that have dominated the headlines in recent weeks but also the first half of 2025, including:

Age of Disclosure: Missed Opportunities?
Skywatcher: Promises and Skepticism
Whistleblowers and Public Perception
AARO Leadership and Future
Observatory&#39;s Sky Scans
UFO Data and Public Perception
UK UAP Hearings and Legislation
Closing Thoughts

Check out Dan&#39;s ...
</div>
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1hr 16m
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<span><span class="js-time" data-epochtime="1752487860" data-format="short_date">Jul 14, 2025</span></span>
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1hr 16m
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</div>
</a></div>
<hr class="mvn mhs text-black-50 opacity-25">
<div class="card rounded-0 border-0 pas qa-audio-clip-overview" style="--bs-card-bg: transparent;">
<a class="text-decoration-none" href="/posts/8747749-bonus-tic-tac-witness-roundtable-kevin-day-gary-voorhis-pj-hughes"><div class="Episode-list-grid card-body pan">
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<div class="vstack gap-1 my-auto">
<h5 class="text-line-clamp text-line-clamp-3 balanced-h fs-6 fs-5-lg fw-normal mb-0">
Bonus: Tic-Tac witness Roundtable (Kevin Day, Gary Voorhis, PJ Hughes)
</h5>
<div class="text-line-clamp text-line-clamp-3 balanced-p fs-8 text-muted text-break">
A bonus episode for you this weekend to look back at my first roundtable conversation from August 2020, but there&#39;s a big reason this one is worth checking out. These are three witnesses to the Tic Tac event of November 2004, all from differing expertise and vantage points. Very much worth diving into given the huge talking points Ross Coulthart, Eric Burlison &amp; others have brought up around th...
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1hr 32m
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<span><span class="js-time" data-epochtime="1752316944" data-format="short_date">Jul 12, 2025</span></span>
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<div class="d-none d-sm-grid" style="justify-self: center; align-items: center;">
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1hr 32m
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</a></div>
<hr class="mvn mhs text-black-50 opacity-25">
<div class="card rounded-0 border-0 pas qa-audio-clip-overview" style="--bs-card-bg: transparent;">
<a class="text-decoration-none" href="/posts/8747316-breakdown-tic-tac-alien-or-human-tech"><div class="Episode-list-grid card-body pan">
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<h5 class="text-line-clamp text-line-clamp-3 balanced-h fs-6 fs-5-lg fw-normal mb-0">
Breakdown: Tic-Tac, Alien or Human tech?
</h5>
<div class="text-line-clamp text-line-clamp-3 balanced-p fs-8 text-muted text-break">
* Part 1 of 2 *
** Pre-order Atlas of UFOs: https://geni.us/AtlasOfUFOs **

I am joined by Dan to discuss a range of breaking UFO news, including Ross Coulthart&#39;s explosive claim about Tic-Tac technology being developed by Lockheed Martin, updates on the Sky Watcher project, and the latest whistleblowers. We also delve into the implications of recent UFO sightings and tech, a new observatory&#39;s ...
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<span><span class="js-time" data-epochtime="1752230592" data-format="short_date">Jul 11, 2025</span></span>
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39m
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<div class="card rounded-0 border-0 pas qa-audio-clip-overview" style="--bs-card-bg: transparent;">
<a class="text-decoration-none" href="/posts/8745744-tic-tac-ufo-was-human-origin-exotic-material-results-soon-more"><div class="Episode-list-grid card-body pan">
<div class="l-flex align-items-baseline gap-2 gap-md-3">
<div class="vstack gap-1 my-auto">
<h5 class="text-line-clamp text-line-clamp-3 balanced-h fs-6 fs-5-lg fw-normal mb-0">
&quot;Tic-Tac UFO was human origin&quot;, Exotic material results soon &amp; more
</h5>
<div class="text-line-clamp text-line-clamp-3 balanced-p fs-8 text-muted text-break">
** Pre-order Atlas of UFOs: https://geni.us/AtlasOfUFOs **

With so much news in the last few days, here is a round-up of whats going on right now with the UFO topic, including:

Ross Coulthart told the Tic-Tac was Lockheed Martin technology
The 2024/25 Drone flap was Chinese/US
Baltic Sea Anomaly expedition
MUFON promise results of exotic material

Check out Graeme&#39;s channel: https://www.youtu...
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32m
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<span><span class="js-time" data-epochtime="1751981754" data-format="short_date">Jul 08, 2025</span></span>
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32m
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</a></div>
<hr class="mvn mhs text-black-50 opacity-25">
<div class="card rounded-0 border-0 pas qa-audio-clip-overview" style="--bs-card-bg: transparent;">
<a class="text-decoration-none" href="/posts/8745244-atlas-of-ufo-s-an-update"><div class="Episode-list-grid card-body pan">
<div class="l-flex align-items-baseline gap-2 gap-md-3">
<div class="vstack gap-1 my-auto">
<h5 class="text-line-clamp text-line-clamp-3 balanced-h fs-6 fs-5-lg fw-normal mb-0">
Atlas of UFO&#39;s, an update
</h5>
<div class="text-line-clamp text-line-clamp-3 balanced-p fs-8 text-muted text-break">
My new book, can be pre-ordered here: https://geni.us/AtlasOfUFOs

Signed copies: https://www.forumbooksshop.com/product/atlas-of-unidentified-flying-objects-and-unidentified-anomalous-phenomena-preorder-signed-dedicated-andy-mcgrillen-9781836006022/12753?cs=true&amp;cst=custom

Any questions at all please email me ufouapam@gmail.com or use the Contact form https://www.thatufopodcast.com/contact

Andy
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<span><span class="js-time" data-epochtime="1751903337" data-format="short_date">Jul 07, 2025</span></span>
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<div class="d-none d-sm-grid" style="justify-self: center; align-items: center;">
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11m
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</a></div>
<hr class="mvn mhs text-black-50 opacity-25">
<div class="card rounded-0 border-0 pas qa-audio-clip-overview" style="--bs-card-bg: transparent;">
<a class="text-decoration-none" href="/posts/8743149-new-uap-footage-world-ufo-day-more"><div class="Episode-list-grid card-body pan">
<div class="l-flex align-items-baseline gap-2 gap-md-3">
<div class="vstack gap-1 my-auto">
<h5 class="text-line-clamp text-line-clamp-3 balanced-h fs-6 fs-5-lg fw-normal mb-0">
New UAP footage, World UFO Day &amp; more
</h5>
<div class="text-line-clamp text-line-clamp-3 balanced-p fs-8 text-muted text-break">
Pre-order Atlas of UFOs: https://geni.us/AtlasOfUFOs

On this show I discuss the new footage dropped by Corbell &amp; Knapp obtained by journalist Dustin Slaughter, as well as:

World UFO Day
Weaponized footage discussion
Coulthart sits down with Sen.Rounds
Listener Call

Get in touch with the show:

https://www.thatufopodcast.com/contact
Twitter: @UFOUAPAM
Facebook, YouTube &amp; Instagram: &quot;That UFO ...
</div>
<div class="text-muted df align-items-baseline gap-2 fs-8">
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48m
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<span><span class="js-time" data-epochtime="1751454726" data-format="short_date">Jul 02, 2025</span></span>
</div>
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<div class="d-none d-sm-grid" style="justify-self: center; align-items: center;">
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48m
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</a></div>
<hr class="mvn mhs text-black-50 opacity-25">
<div class="card rounded-0 border-0 pas qa-audio-clip-overview" style="--bs-card-bg: transparent;">
<a class="text-decoration-none" href="/posts/8742038-congressman-talks-aliens-trump-s-briefing-hybrids"><div class="Episode-list-grid card-body pan">
<div class="l-flex align-items-baseline gap-2 gap-md-3">
<div class="vstack gap-1 my-auto">
<h5 class="text-line-clamp text-line-clamp-3 balanced-h fs-6 fs-5-lg fw-normal mb-0">
Congressman talks Aliens, Trump&#39;s briefing &amp; Hybrids
</h5>
<div class="text-line-clamp text-line-clamp-3 balanced-p fs-8 text-muted text-break">
** Pre-order Atlas of UFOs: https://geni.us/AtlasOfUFOs **

Congressman Eric Burlison has made headlines with some big statements on various interviews over the last week, including discussing his views on the Nazca mummies, Buga Sphere, Nordics, Greys, Reptilians and more. Nathan joins me to discuss his statements &amp; other news items.

Eric Burlison’s Interview and UFO Discussions
The Buga Sphe...
</div>
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1hr 20m
</span>
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<span><span class="js-time" data-epochtime="1751278260" data-format="short_date">Jun 30, 2025</span></span>
</div>
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<div class="d-none d-sm-grid" style="justify-self: center; align-items: center;">
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1hr 20m
</div>
</div>
</div>
</a></div>
<hr class="mvn mhs text-black-50 opacity-25">
<div class="card rounded-0 border-0 pas qa-audio-clip-overview" style="--bs-card-bg: transparent;">
<a class="text-decoration-none" href="/posts/8741186-breakdown-narrative-wars-hoax-s-mainstream-attacks-pt-2"><div class="Episode-list-grid card-body pan">
<div class="l-flex align-items-baseline gap-2 gap-md-3">
<div class="vstack gap-1 my-auto">
<h5 class="text-line-clamp text-line-clamp-3 balanced-h fs-6 fs-5-lg fw-normal mb-0">
Breakdown: Narrative wars, Hoax&#39;s &amp; Mainstream attacks (Pt.2)
</h5>
<div class="text-line-clamp text-line-clamp-3 balanced-p fs-8 text-muted text-break">
*Pre-order my new book here: https://geni.us/AtlasOfUFOs *

Pavel Ibarra, host of the Psicoactivo podcast, is back with me to finish our Breakdown of the news which includes:

Current state of Disclosure
Buga Sphere being a hoax?
UFO Narrative wars
Wall Street Journal hit-piece
Mainstream cover-up?
Challenges in UFO Disclosure

Check out Pavel&#39;s show: https://www.youtube.com/@psicoactivopodcast...
</div>
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37m
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<span><span class="js-time" data-epochtime="1751025251" data-format="short_date">Jun 27, 2025</span></span>
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37m
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<a class="text-decoration-none" href="/posts/8740069-breakdown-ufo-in-clouds-footage-buga-sphere-underground-bases-more"><div class="Episode-list-grid card-body pan">
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Breakdown: UFO in Clouds footage, Buga Sphere, Underground Bases &amp; more
</h5>
<div class="text-line-clamp text-line-clamp-3 balanced-p fs-8 text-muted text-break">
*Pre-order my new book here: https://geni.us/AtlasOfUFOs *

I am joined for this Breakdown by first time guest, Pavel Ibarra, host of the Psicoactivo podcast which is very much worth checking out over on youtube, link below, we discussed a lot of news, including:

Tim Phillips&#39; Interviews and Reactions
Jeremy Corbell and George Knapp&#39;s UFO Footage
The Buga Sphere Controversy
Underground Bases a...
</div>
<div class="text-muted df align-items-baseline gap-2 fs-8">
<span class="numeric-tabular d-sm-none">
1hr 7m
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<span><span class="js-time" data-epochtime="1750846260" data-format="short_date">Jun 25, 2025</span></span>
</div>
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<div class="d-none d-sm-grid" style="justify-self: center; align-items: center;">
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1hr 7m
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</a></div>
<hr class="mvn mhs text-black-50 opacity-25">
<div class="card rounded-0 border-0 pas qa-audio-clip-overview" style="--bs-card-bg: transparent;">
<a class="text-decoration-none" href="/posts/8738874-inside-skinwalker-ranch-thomas-winterton"><div class="Episode-list-grid card-body pan">
<div class="l-flex align-items-baseline gap-2 gap-md-3">
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Inside Skinwalker Ranch: Thomas Winterton
</h5>
<div class="text-line-clamp text-line-clamp-3 balanced-p fs-8 text-muted text-break">
I am joined by Superintendent of Skinwalker Ranch, Thomas Winterton to talk about the new season, including:

Thomas Winterton&#39;s Journey to Skinwalker Ranch
The Evolution of Investigations at Skinwalker Ranch
Challenges and Discoveries in Drilling the Mesa
The Mysterious Triangle and LIDAR Discoveries
Personal Experiences and Historical Accounts
Hypotheses and Extraterrestrial Possibilities
Com...
</div>
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35m
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</span>
<span><span class="js-time" data-epochtime="1750673460" data-format="short_date">Jun 23, 2025</span></span>
</div>
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35m
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</a></div>
<hr class="mvn mhs text-black-50 opacity-25">
<div class="card rounded-0 border-0 pas qa-audio-clip-overview" style="--bs-card-bg: transparent;">
<a class="text-decoration-none" href="/posts/8737867-aliens-genetics-a-i-steve-bassett-pt-2"><div class="Episode-list-grid card-body pan">
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<h5 class="text-line-clamp text-line-clamp-3 balanced-h fs-6 fs-5-lg fw-normal mb-0">
Aliens, Genetics &amp; A.I: Steve Bassett (Pt.2)
</h5>
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I am joined by Steve Bassett to carry on our conversation, which includes:

Listener Questions
The Theory of Genetic Connection with NHIs
The Importance of Disclosure and Open Contact
AI and Its Potential Role in Disclosure
The Spiritual and Esoteric Aspects of the phenomenon
Final Thoughts and Call to Action

Stevens links:

https://www.hollywooddisclosurealliance.org/
https://paradigmresearch...
</div>
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44m
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<span><span class="js-time" data-epochtime="1750415800" data-format="short_date">Jun 20, 2025</span></span>
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44m
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</a></div>
<hr class="mvn mhs text-black-50 opacity-25">
<div class="card rounded-0 border-0 pas qa-audio-clip-overview" style="--bs-card-bg: transparent;">
<a class="text-decoration-none" href="/posts/8737307-steve-bassett-managing-the-ufo-truth-embargo"><div class="Episode-list-grid card-body pan">
<div class="l-flex align-items-baseline gap-2 gap-md-3">
<div class="vstack gap-1 my-auto">
<h5 class="text-line-clamp text-line-clamp-3 balanced-h fs-6 fs-5-lg fw-normal mb-0">
Steve Bassett: Managing the UFO Truth Embargo
</h5>
<div class="text-line-clamp text-line-clamp-3 balanced-p fs-8 text-muted text-break">
UFO Disclosure advocate &amp; Executive Director of the Paradigm Research Group, Steve Bassett joins me to discuss:

Welcome and Introduction
The State of UFO Disclosure
Political Challenges and Progress
Recent Developments and Witnesses
Controversial Wall Street Journal Article
The Bigger Picture and Future Outlook
The Urgency of Disclosure
Speculations on Wall Street Journal&#39;s second part
The Rol...
</div>
<div class="text-muted df align-items-baseline gap-2 fs-8">
<span class="numeric-tabular d-sm-none">
1hr 1m
</span>
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</span>
<span><span class="js-time" data-epochtime="1750331019" data-format="short_date">Jun 19, 2025</span></span>
</div>
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</div>
<div class="d-none d-sm-grid" style="justify-self: center; align-items: center;">
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1hr 1m
</div>
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</a></div>
<hr class="mvn mhs text-black-50 opacity-25">
<div class="card rounded-0 border-0 pas qa-audio-clip-overview" style="--bs-card-bg: transparent;">
<a class="text-decoration-none" href="/posts/8736242-inside-aaro-tim-phillips-on-uaps-national-security-government-transparency"><div class="Episode-list-grid card-body pan">
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<h5 class="text-line-clamp text-line-clamp-3 balanced-h fs-6 fs-5-lg fw-normal mb-0">
Inside AARO: Tim Phillips on UAPs, National Security, &amp; Government Transparency
</h5>
<div class="text-line-clamp text-line-clamp-3 balanced-p fs-8 text-muted text-break">
**There is some mild background noise in the first 14 mins which ive cleaned up that goes away, apologies folks**

Pre-order Atlas of UFOs: https://geni.us/AtlasOfUFOs

I am joined by former Deputy Director of the All Domain Anomaly Resolution Office (AARO) Timothy Phillips, to discuss:

Tims Career
Assignment to AARO and Initial Impressions
AARO Organizational Structure and Mission
Challenges ...
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<span><span class="js-time" data-epochtime="1750154280" data-format="short_date">Jun 17, 2025</span></span>
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<a class="text-decoration-none" href="/posts/8734207-deep-prasad-ufo-s-a-i-uap-hackathon-pt-2"><div class="Episode-list-grid card-body pan">
<div class="l-flex align-items-baseline gap-2 gap-md-3">
<div class="vstack gap-1 my-auto">
<h5 class="text-line-clamp text-line-clamp-3 balanced-h fs-6 fs-5-lg fw-normal mb-0">
Deep Prasad: UFO&#39;s, A.I &amp; UAP Hackathon (Pt.2)
</h5>
<div class="text-line-clamp text-line-clamp-3 balanced-p fs-8 text-muted text-break">
** Pre-order my new book: https://geni.us/AtlasOfUFOs **

I am joined by tech entrepreneur, physicist &amp; experiencer, Deep Prasad to discuss:

What Deep thinks is actually going on with UFOs
The Continuous Spectrum of Interdimensional Beings
The Rise of Private Space Companies
The Role of NHI in Disclosure
UFOs &amp; Open Source Data
Advancements in Anti-Gravity Research
The Implications of AI and M...
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<a class="text-decoration-none" href="/posts/8733361-deep-prasad-ufo-s-a-i-uap-hackathon-pt-1"><div class="Episode-list-grid card-body pan">
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<div class="vstack gap-1 my-auto">
<h5 class="text-line-clamp text-line-clamp-3 balanced-h fs-6 fs-5-lg fw-normal mb-0">
Deep Prasad: UFO&#39;s, A.I &amp; UAP Hackathon (Pt.1)
</h5>
<div class="text-line-clamp text-line-clamp-3 balanced-p fs-8 text-muted text-break">
** Pre-order my new book: https://geni.us/AtlasOfUFOs **

I am joined by tech entrepreneur, physicist &amp; experiencer, Deep Prasad to discuss:

00:00 Intro / Book promotion https://geni.us/AtlasOfUFOs
01:14 His Background and Achievements
03:17 Involvement in the UFO Community
04:18 AI and Material Science Innovations
10:37 The World&#39;s First UFO Hackathon
15:21 Hackathon Mission Tracks and Challe...
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<div class="card rounded-0 border-0 pas qa-audio-clip-overview" style="--bs-card-bg: transparent;">
<a class="text-decoration-none" href="/posts/8732254-whistleblower-viral-post-a-i-murdered-more-listener-ramble"><div class="Episode-list-grid card-body pan">
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<div class="vstack gap-1 my-auto">
<h5 class="text-line-clamp text-line-clamp-3 balanced-h fs-6 fs-5-lg fw-normal mb-0">
Whistleblower viral post, A.I murdered &amp; more : Listener Ramble
</h5>
<div class="text-line-clamp text-line-clamp-3 balanced-p fs-8 text-muted text-break">
Pre-order &#39;Atlas of UFO&#39;s&#39;: https://geni.us/AtlasOfUFOs

I am joined by YOU the listener for another fascinating listener ramble where we cover:

Matthew Brown&#39;s cryptic X post
Govt operators writing secrets in books
Shadow government
and much more

Get in touch with the show:

https://www.thatufopodcast.com/contact
Twitter: @UFOUAPAM
Facebook, YouTube &amp; Instagram: &quot;That UFO Podcast&quot;
YouTube: ⁠...
</div>
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<span><span class="js-time" data-epochtime="1749463860" data-format="short_date">Jun 09, 2025</span></span>
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<div class="card rounded-0 border-0 pas qa-audio-clip-overview" style="--bs-card-bg: transparent;">
<a class="text-decoration-none" href="/posts/8732012-omnibus-the-authors-randle-krpial-thigpen-pt-2"><div class="Episode-list-grid card-body pan">
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<div class="vstack gap-1 my-auto">
<h5 class="text-line-clamp text-line-clamp-3 balanced-h fs-6 fs-5-lg fw-normal mb-0">
Omnibus: The Authors - Randle, Krpial &amp; Thigpen (Pt.2)
</h5>
<div class="text-line-clamp text-line-clamp-3 balanced-p fs-8 text-muted text-break">
Pre-order my new book: https://geni.us/AtlasOfUFOs

This is a special omnibus episode with over 4 hours of great discussion on some books &amp; guests you may not have heard of!

Books Discussed

Levelland - https://amzn.eu/d/8oHSoEL

How to think impossibly - https://amzn.eu/d/g0dY3bo

ET &amp; The Catholic Faith - https://amzn.eu/d/6VUHdaE

Get in touch with the show:

https://www.thatufopodcast.com/...
</div>
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<span><span class="js-time" data-epochtime="1749305700" data-format="short_date">Jun 07, 2025</span></span>
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<div class="card rounded-0 border-0 pas qa-audio-clip-overview" style="--bs-card-bg: transparent;">
<a class="text-decoration-none" href="/posts/8729081-breakdown-skywatcher-2027-buga-sphere-update-more"><div class="Episode-list-grid card-body pan">
<div class="l-flex align-items-baseline gap-2 gap-md-3">
<div class="vstack gap-1 my-auto">
<h5 class="text-line-clamp text-line-clamp-3 balanced-h fs-6 fs-5-lg fw-normal mb-0">
Breakdown: Skywatcher, 2027, Buga Sphere update &amp; more
</h5>
<div class="text-line-clamp text-line-clamp-3 balanced-p fs-8 text-muted text-break">
Pre-order &#39;Atlas of UFO&#39;s&#39;: https://geni.us/AtlasOfUFOs

I am joined by Liminal Phrames &amp; C.A.B co-host Nathan, for a look at the latest UFO news including:

Skywatcher&#39;s Latest Updates
Deep Underground Military Bases
2027 Predictions and Speculations
Analyzing Recent UFO Sightings
The Nazca Mummies and Skepticism
Debating the Tic-Tac Incident
Labels and Perspectives in UFO Community
Concluding...
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<span><span class="js-time" data-epochtime="1748945460" data-format="short_date">Jun 03, 2025</span></span>
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<div class="d-none d-sm-grid" style="justify-self: center; align-items: center;">
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<hr class="mvn mhs text-black-50 opacity-25">
<div class="card rounded-0 border-0 pas qa-audio-clip-overview" style="--bs-card-bg: transparent;">
<a class="text-decoration-none" href="/posts/8728922-breakdown-fbi-on-ufos-defund-aaro-more"><div class="Episode-list-grid card-body pan">
<div class="l-flex align-items-baseline gap-2 gap-md-3">
<div class="vstack gap-1 my-auto">
<h5 class="text-line-clamp text-line-clamp-3 balanced-h fs-6 fs-5-lg fw-normal mb-0">
Breakdown: FBI on UFOs, Defund AARO &amp; more
</h5>
<div class="text-line-clamp text-line-clamp-3 balanced-p fs-8 text-muted text-break">
Pre-order &#39;Atlas of UFO&#39;s&#39;: https://geni.us/AtlasOfUFOs

I am joined by Liminal Phrames &amp; C.A.B co-host Nathan, for a look at the latest UFO news including:

Jay Stratton and the UAP Task Force
Age of Disclosure Documentary
FBI&#39;s Role in UAP Investigations
Defunding AARO: A Controversial Proposal
Whistleblowers and Media Strategies
Upcoming UFO Films and Documentaries
Breaking News: Five Eyes a...
</div>
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<a class="text-decoration-none" href="/posts/8727623-omnibus-the-authors-pasulka-knapp-kelleher-more-pt-1"><div class="Episode-list-grid card-body pan">
<div class="l-flex align-items-baseline gap-2 gap-md-3">
<div class="vstack gap-1 my-auto">
<h5 class="text-line-clamp text-line-clamp-3 balanced-h fs-6 fs-5-lg fw-normal mb-0">
Omnibus: The Authors - Pasulka, Knapp, Kelleher &amp; more (Pt.1)
</h5>
<div class="text-line-clamp text-line-clamp-3 balanced-p fs-8 text-muted text-break">
Pre-order my new book: https://geni.us/AtlasOfUFOs

This is a special omnibus episode with over 6 hours of conversation with guests including Diana Walsh Pasulka, George Knapp, Colm Kelleher, Ryan S Wood &amp; Paul Sinclair. You will hear some great discussion among some of the best books I would recommend in UFOlogy.

Books Discussed
Encounters - https://amzn.eu/d/7WnkdTS
Majic Eyes Only - https:/...
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<span><span class="js-time" data-epochtime="1748530620" data-format="short_date">May 29, 2025</span></span>
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<div class="card rounded-0 border-0 pas qa-audio-clip-overview" style="--bs-card-bg: transparent;">
<a class="text-decoration-none" href="/posts/8725428-atlas-of-unidentified-flying-objects-special-announcement"><div class="Episode-list-grid card-body pan">
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<div class="vstack gap-1 my-auto">
<h5 class="text-line-clamp text-line-clamp-3 balanced-h fs-6 fs-5-lg fw-normal mb-0">
Atlas of Unidentified Flying Objects: Special Announcement
</h5>
<div class="text-line-clamp text-line-clamp-3 balanced-p fs-8 text-muted text-break">
Pre-order the book here: https://geni.us/AtlasOfUFOs
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<a class="text-decoration-none" href="/posts/8725004-ce5-human-initiated-contact-skywatcher-more"><div class="Episode-list-grid card-body pan">
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<div class="vstack gap-1 my-auto">
<h5 class="text-line-clamp text-line-clamp-3 balanced-h fs-6 fs-5-lg fw-normal mb-0">
CE5, Human Initiated Contact, Skywatcher &amp; more
</h5>
<div class="text-line-clamp text-line-clamp-3 balanced-p fs-8 text-muted text-break">
** Pick up your copy of my new book &#39;Atlas of UFOs&#39; here: https://geni.us/AtlasOfUFOs **

I am joined by James Iandoli, host of &#39;Engaging the Phenomenon&#39; for your listener ramble this week as we focus on CE5 &amp; Human Initiated Contact, then listener Clare joins me to discuss her time at the Archives of the Impossible conference held a few weeks ago with some incredible speakers.

Check out James...
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<span><span class="js-time" data-epochtime="1748033573" data-format="short_date">May 23, 2025</span></span>
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<a class="text-decoration-none" href="/posts/8723459-dr-doug-buettner-science-data-ufo-s"><div class="Episode-list-grid card-body pan">
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Dr.Doug Buettner: Science, Data &amp; UFO&#39;s
</h5>
<div class="text-line-clamp text-line-clamp-3 balanced-p fs-8 text-muted text-break">
I am joined by Dr. Doug Buettner. We delve into Dr. Buettner&#39;s family history with UFO sightings, his work with the Scientific Coalition of UAP Studies (SCU), and the importance of scientific rigor in the investigation of UAPs. Tune in for a deep dive into UFO data, analysis techniques, and the role of emerging technologies in this fascinating field.

Early UFO Encounters and Family Stories
Inv...
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<span><span class="js-time" data-epochtime="1747822260" data-format="short_date">May 21, 2025</span></span>
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1hr 10m
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<hr class="mvn mhs text-black-50 opacity-25">
<div class="card rounded-0 border-0 pas qa-audio-clip-overview" style="--bs-card-bg: transparent;">
<a class="text-decoration-none" href="/posts/8722198-breakdown-whistleblowers-ce5-skywatcher-more"><div class="Episode-list-grid card-body pan">
<div class="l-flex align-items-baseline gap-2 gap-md-3">
<div class="vstack gap-1 my-auto">
<h5 class="text-line-clamp text-line-clamp-3 balanced-h fs-6 fs-5-lg fw-normal mb-0">
Breakdown: Whistleblowers, CE5, Skywatcher &amp; more
</h5>
<div class="text-line-clamp text-line-clamp-3 balanced-p fs-8 text-muted text-break">
I am joined by another guest co-host for the Breakdown today, James Iandoli from &#39;Engaging the Phenomenon&#39;, to discuss a whole load of news items including:

00:00 Welcome
02:12 James&#39; Background and UFO Experiences
09:58 Understanding CE-5 and Consciousness
15:29 Matt Brown Whistleblower Saga
21:40 Philosophical Implications and Higher Intelligence
35:49 Whistleblowers and Secrecy
48:50 The Co...
</div>
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<span><span class="js-time" data-epochtime="1747658110" data-format="short_date">May 19, 2025</span></span>
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<div class="d-none d-sm-grid" style="justify-self: center; align-items: center;">
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1hr 39m
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<hr class="mvn mhs text-black-50 opacity-25">
<div class="card rounded-0 border-0 pas qa-audio-clip-overview" style="--bs-card-bg: transparent;">
<a class="text-decoration-none" href="/posts/8720553-breaking-news-orders-or-oath-matthew-brown-immaculate-constellation"><div class="Episode-list-grid card-body pan">
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Breaking News: &quot;Orders or Oath&quot; – Matthew Brown (Immaculate Constellation)
</h5>
<div class="text-line-clamp text-line-clamp-3 balanced-p fs-8 text-muted text-break">
Whistleblower, Matthew Brown, is back for his third appearance with Corbell &amp; Knapp on Weaponized, here is my breakdown of what he had to say, what were the highlights and what questions remain.

Check out Weaponized: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PtBVAxoHeaY

Get in touch with the show:

https://www.thatufopodcast.com/contact
Twitter: @UFOUAPAM
Facebook, YouTube &amp; Instagram: &quot;That UFO Podcas...
</div>
<div class="text-muted df align-items-baseline gap-2 fs-8">
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<span><span class="js-time" data-epochtime="1747314906" data-format="short_date">May 15, 2025</span></span>
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<a class="text-decoration-none" href="/posts/8718803-whistleblowers-secrecy-and-research-insights-from-dr-peter-skafish-pt-2"><div class="Episode-list-grid card-body pan">
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<h5 class="text-line-clamp text-line-clamp-3 balanced-h fs-6 fs-5-lg fw-normal mb-0">
Whistleblowers, Secrecy, and Research: Insights from Dr. Peter Skafish (Pt.2)
</h5>
<div class="text-line-clamp text-line-clamp-3 balanced-p fs-8 text-muted text-break">
**Part 2 of 2**

I am joined by Dr. Peter Skafish, co-founder of the Sol Foundation alongside Dr. Garry Nolan. Peter discusses the complex issues surrounding modern whistleblowers, government disclosure, and the integral role of academia in understanding UAP phenomena.

00:00 Academia&#39;s Role in UAP Research
01:09 Psychedelics as an Analogy for UAP Acceptance
06:18 Challenges in UAP Scientific I...
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<span><span class="js-time" data-epochtime="1747131060" data-format="short_date">May 13, 2025</span></span>
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<a class="text-decoration-none" href="/posts/8718799-whistleblowers-secrecy-and-research-insights-from-dr-peter-skafish-pt-1"><div class="Episode-list-grid card-body pan">
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Whistleblowers, Secrecy, and Research: Insights from Dr. Peter Skafish (Pt.1)
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**Part 1 of 2** get a free month of the paid version of the pod here: https://www.patreon.com/ThatUFOPodcast/redeem/42028

I am joined by Dr. Peter Skafish, co-founder of the Sol Foundation alongside Dr. Garry Nolan. Peter discusses the complex issues surrounding modern whistleblowers, government disclosure, and the integral role of academia in understanding UAP phenomena.

00:00 Introduction a...
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Breakdown: Whistleblowers, UAP Hearing cancelled? &amp; more
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I am joined by Micah Hanks of &#39;The Micah Hanks Show&#39; for this special Breakdown as we discuss the latest revelations from Matthew Brown, plus other news including:

00:00 Introduction
01:13 Discussing Matthew Brown&#39;s Part 2
02:58 Concerns and Credibility of Immaculate Constellation
07:12 Historical Context and Government Secrecy
19:58 War Games and UAP Scenarios
23:45 AI and Data Sanitization i...
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<span><span class="js-time" data-epochtime="1746825470" data-format="short_date">May 09, 2025</span></span>
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Breaking News: Immaculate Constellation author tells more
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This is the follow up to last weeks breaking news, as Weaponized with Jeremy Corbell &amp; George Knapp have released their second part of their interview with whistleblower &amp; author of the Immaculate Constellation document, Matthew Brown.

Please check out the full interview here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4n_bRtnIP14

Get in touch with the show:

https://www.thatufopodcast.com/contact
Twitt...
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Whitley Strieber: The Fourth Mind
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In this episode I am joined by experiencer &amp; author Whitley Strieber, as we talk about his decades of interaction with a Non-Human Intelligence through his new book &#39;The Fourth Mind&#39;.

00:00 Introduction and Guest Welcome
00:45 Discussing &#39;The Fourth Mind&#39;
03:23 Unique Experiences and Observations
09:29 Physical Encounters and Evidence
15:02 Understanding Missing Time
21:54 De-Mythologizing the...
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Breakdown: Immaculate Constellation author, Matthew Brown
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**Free month of the podcast: https://www.patreon.com/ThatUFOPodcast/redeem/42028**

I am joined by dan for a discussion on the revelations of Matthew Brown, the new whistleblower brought forward by jeremy Corbell &amp; George Knapp, we go through a host of listener questions too!

00:00 Welcome and Introduction
01:22 Putoff on Rogan &amp; UAP Panel
04:24 Whistleblower Matthew Brown
07:52 Listener Quest...
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<a class="text-decoration-none" href="/posts/8713281-breaking-news-immaculate-constellation-whistleblower-comes-forward"><div class="Episode-list-grid card-body pan">
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Breaking News - Immaculate Constellation whistleblower comes forward
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**Free month of the podcast: https://www.patreon.com/ThatUFOPodcast/redeem/42028**

Huge news coming out of nowhere as Matthew Brown, is named as the author of the &#39;Immaculate Constellation&#39; document that was presented to Congress back in November. He sat down with Jeremy Corbell &amp; George Knapp to discuss the details and here are some of my initial thoughts.

Check out the full interview : http...
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Melinda Leslie: Reverse Engineering &amp; Deep Underground Military Bases (Pt.2)
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**This is part 2 of 2**

I am joined by UFO investigator of more than 35 years, Melinda Leslie, to discuss her work on Abductions, Mil-Ab&#39;s (military abductions) , DUMB&#39;s (Deep Underground Military Bases) and much more...

00:00 Deep Underground Military Bases
05:19 Researching Underground Bases in Sedona
08:20 Encounters with Guards and UFO Sightings
09:22 UFO Sighting Tours: An Overview
10:13...
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<span><span class="js-time" data-epochtime="1745820000" data-format="short_date">Apr 28, 2025</span></span>
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<a class="text-decoration-none" href="/posts/8711099-melinda-leslie-abductions-mil-abs-deep-underground-military-bases-pt-1"><div class="Episode-list-grid card-body pan">
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Melinda Leslie: Abductions, Mil-abs &amp; Deep Underground Military Bases (Pt.1)
</h5>
<div class="text-line-clamp text-line-clamp-3 balanced-p fs-8 text-muted text-break">
I am joined by UFO investigator of more than 35 years, Melinda Leslie, to discuss her work on Abductions, Mil-Ab&#39;s (military abductions) , DUMB&#39;s (Deep Underground Military Bases) and much more...

00:00 Welcome and Introduction
01:07 Melinda&#39;s Introduction to UFOs
01:30 The Bob Lazar Story
05:15 First UFO Sightings and Investigations
07:10 Unlocking Abduction Memories
14:33 Childhood Experienc...
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<span><span class="js-time" data-epochtime="1745583379" data-format="short_date">Apr 25, 2025</span></span>
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