1 00:00:08,090 --> 00:00:10,810 ALAN POWER: Welcome to the new National Trust podcast series. 2 00:00:12,909 --> 00:00:15,890 I'm Alan Power Head Gardener at Stourhead and somebody who's 3 00:00:15,899 --> 00:00:19,139 very passionate about everything outdoors. 4 00:00:19,139 --> 00:00:21,700 In this series, we'll be exploring the Trust's amazing 5 00:00:21,709 --> 00:00:25,290 spaces delving into the stories and characters that make each 6 00:00:25,299 --> 00:00:28,680 place so special. We'll be traveling all around the country 7 00:00:28,690 --> 00:00:30,229 from hilltop to seaside. 8 00:00:30,610 --> 00:00:33,229 We'll tread sandy paths and the polished wooden floors of 9 00:00:33,240 --> 00:00:36,750 country homes. Not to mention some spectacular gardens. 10 00:00:37,259 --> 00:00:40,669 We delight in bird song, sublime views and exceptionally good 11 00:00:40,680 --> 00:00:44,799 cream teas. So join me on this journey and immerse yourself in 12 00:00:44,810 --> 00:00:46,709 the wonders of the National Trust. 13 00:00:49,080 --> 00:00:52,029 Today, I'm in Buckinghamshire to explore a garden that has been 14 00:00:52,040 --> 00:00:53,669 described as a work of art. 15 00:00:54,340 --> 00:00:58,770 250 acres of sculpted landscape replete with ornamental lakes, 16 00:00:58,779 --> 00:01:00,200 temples and monuments. 17 00:01:00,750 --> 00:01:03,459 Its beauty has attracted visitors and inspired writers 18 00:01:03,470 --> 00:01:05,680 and artists for over 300 years. 19 00:01:06,099 --> 00:01:07,959 Of course, I'm in Stowe. 20 00:01:13,040 --> 00:01:15,769 A garden shaped by the hands and imaginations of some of 21 00:01:15,779 --> 00:01:17,489 history's finest gardeners. 22 00:01:17,800 --> 00:01:21,510 The gardens were designed to be a paradise on earth, a purpose 23 00:01:21,519 --> 00:01:24,830 that they serve to this day, but the garden is also ripe with 24 00:01:24,839 --> 00:01:28,370 political history and hidden meaning and in this episode, 25 00:01:28,379 --> 00:01:31,559 I'll be soaking in the beauty of this magnificent Georgian 26 00:01:31,569 --> 00:01:35,099 splendour as well as digging into the past to understand the 27 00:01:35,110 --> 00:01:38,089 people and the politics that have given Stowe its distinct 28 00:01:38,099 --> 00:01:38,709 character. 29 00:01:47,110 --> 00:01:49,750 I'm on my way to meet Hannah Richards. She's a gardener on 30 00:01:49,760 --> 00:01:52,279 the team here at Stowe and she's promised to show me around the 31 00:01:52,290 --> 00:01:52,690 garden. 32 00:01:57,019 --> 00:02:00,660 It's just starting to spit rain at Stowe today, so we've just 33 00:02:00,669 --> 00:02:03,940 taken shelter in the temple of Venus in one of the arches which 34 00:02:03,949 --> 00:02:06,779 frames a magnificent view across a lake and I can just see a 35 00:02:06,790 --> 00:02:09,100 feature in the distance glimpsing out from behind the 36 00:02:09,110 --> 00:02:09,600 trees. 37 00:02:10,320 --> 00:02:12,940 I can understand why you want to work here. Hannah, how long have 38 00:02:12,949 --> 00:02:13,779 you been a gardener here? 39 00:02:13,910 --> 00:02:17,110 HANNAH RICHARDS: I've been here for three years now just over, 40 00:02:17,169 --> 00:02:19,615 still learning and still living it. 41 00:02:19,615 --> 00:02:22,990 It's beautiful settings and it's such a nice place for a bit of 42 00:02:23,000 --> 00:02:27,589 escapism. So, on the most basic level, it's really enjoyable. 43 00:02:27,600 --> 00:02:30,750 But then when you start to delve a little bit deeper and you 44 00:02:30,759 --> 00:02:34,080 start to get into some of the stories of the people and the 45 00:02:34,089 --> 00:02:37,490 events that have happened here, it adds a whole new layer of 46 00:02:37,500 --> 00:02:39,259 meaning to everything. 47 00:02:39,259 --> 00:02:40,979 ALAN POWER: Who was the family that lived here originally? 48 00:02:41,990 --> 00:02:45,429 HANNAH RICHARDS: So we started off in the 1500 with the Temple 49 00:02:45,440 --> 00:02:49,809 family. It was Peter Temple who the only way to describe him 50 00:02:49,820 --> 00:02:53,130 really was like a del boy on horseback, 51 00:02:53,130 --> 00:03:01,279 A bit of a'wheeler dealer' he came from his sheep farming 52 00:03:01,289 --> 00:03:05,100 background in Witney and then he was offered the chance to take 53 00:03:05,110 --> 00:03:09,539 on a lease at Stowe, which he absolutely snapped their hand 54 00:03:09,550 --> 00:03:09,979 off. 55 00:03:10,970 --> 00:03:13,690 Not only was it a gorgeous setting, but also you had 56 00:03:13,699 --> 00:03:19,320 Buckingham where they had two MPs elected by about 13 voters. 57 00:03:19,539 --> 00:03:23,679 So he was keen to, to gain power and he knew that this would be 58 00:03:23,690 --> 00:03:24,750 his way into it. 59 00:03:26,559 --> 00:03:29,520 So they went from humble beginnings to being one of the 60 00:03:29,529 --> 00:03:32,539 most famous and influential families in the country. 61 00:03:40,119 --> 00:03:43,360 They had quite literally more money than they knew what to do 62 00:03:43,369 --> 00:03:43,839 with. 63 00:03:44,089 --> 00:03:47,289 They were definitely trendsetters of the time and 64 00:03:47,300 --> 00:03:50,600 they wanted to sort of start moving away from formal 65 00:03:50,610 --> 00:03:54,960 parterres and straight lines and move towards the landscape 66 00:03:54,970 --> 00:03:59,679 movement, which was softening everything it was using ha-has 67 00:03:59,690 --> 00:04:01,809 to create that borrowed landscape. 68 00:04:01,820 --> 00:04:05,110 ALAN POWER: Could you describe for me what a ha-ha looks like 69 00:04:05,119 --> 00:04:05,949 on the landscape? 70 00:04:06,789 --> 00:04:08,940 HANNAH RICHARDS: If it's doing its job, it will look like 71 00:04:08,949 --> 00:04:10,610 nothing in the landscape. 72 00:04:11,020 --> 00:04:15,460 And the easiest way to explain it is it's a sunken wall. So 73 00:04:15,470 --> 00:04:20,130 rather than using fencing or, or walls to keep cattle out, it was 74 00:04:20,140 --> 00:04:24,010 dug into the ground with quite a steep bank on the other side. 75 00:04:24,320 --> 00:04:28,859 And this way, the the cattle can't come into the gardens. But 76 00:04:28,869 --> 00:04:31,679 when you're waking up and having your breakfast in your manor 77 00:04:31,690 --> 00:04:35,160 house, you can look out and see for miles and miles because 78 00:04:35,170 --> 00:04:37,059 there's no broken view. 79 00:04:42,320 --> 00:04:45,179 ALAN POWER: Hannah, they sound like a brilliantly successful, 80 00:04:45,190 --> 00:04:48,929 determined kind of, almost ruthless family and what they 81 00:04:48,940 --> 00:04:49,549 wanted to do. 82 00:04:49,559 --> 00:04:52,179 And their wealth, as you said was, you know, they could hardly 83 00:04:52,190 --> 00:04:54,859 count the money they had, but actually they went bankrupt, 84 00:04:54,869 --> 00:04:56,739 didn't they? How on earth did that happen? 85 00:04:57,660 --> 00:05:00,380 HANNAH RICHARDS: I think possibly they got a bit too used 86 00:05:00,390 --> 00:05:01,959 to the finer taste in life. 87 00:05:02,230 --> 00:05:06,619 They were very power hungry and they wanted as many royal visits 88 00:05:06,630 --> 00:05:08,660 as they could and famous visits. 89 00:05:09,160 --> 00:05:11,989 But they couldn't let one of these go past without installing 90 00:05:12,000 --> 00:05:15,760 a new statue in the garden or a new monument in their honour. 91 00:05:16,339 --> 00:05:19,839 And then before they knew it, they were in just huge amounts 92 00:05:19,850 --> 00:05:20,480 of debt. 93 00:05:22,320 --> 00:05:24,170 ALAN POWER: So the Temple-Grenville family went 94 00:05:24,179 --> 00:05:27,540 from rags to riches and then to ruin in a couple of centuries. 95 00:05:28,040 --> 00:05:31,959 All that was but a blip in the timeline of Stowe's magnificent 96 00:05:31,970 --> 00:05:36,339 ancient trees. I'm on my way now to see such a tree. 97 00:05:39,809 --> 00:05:45,380 I'm stood beneath what is a magnificent oak tree. It's- it's 98 00:05:45,390 --> 00:05:50,179 in and around 700 years old, but it's got a massive massive trunk 99 00:05:50,190 --> 00:05:54,070 to it. But actually the canopy of the tree is quite small. It's 100 00:05:54,079 --> 00:05:55,630 been pollarded in the past. 101 00:05:55,640 --> 00:05:59,429 So that means all the heavy limbs would have been reduced 102 00:05:59,440 --> 00:06:02,299 and reduced right back to the main stem and this young growth 103 00:06:02,309 --> 00:06:03,250 has been allowed to come. 104 00:06:03,260 --> 00:06:05,914 But what really draws my eye is the, is the trunk. 105 00:06:05,914 --> 00:06:10,100 It's gnarly it's old. And from my point of view, being a bit of 106 00:06:10,109 --> 00:06:13,049 a tree anorak myself. You know, it's full of character. It's got 107 00:06:13,059 --> 00:06:14,899 a real ancient character to it. 108 00:06:18,690 --> 00:06:21,320 But as you kind of wander around the tree, you can see right into 109 00:06:21,329 --> 00:06:23,679 the heart of the tree and the heartwood is, is pretty much 110 00:06:23,690 --> 00:06:28,109 gone. And there's a skeletal structure holding this tree up. 111 00:06:28,109 --> 00:06:31,190 And I'm standing here next to this tree with Anna Tolfree. 112 00:06:31,279 --> 00:06:33,209 ANNA TOLFREE: I don't know why, but I always referred to her as 113 00:06:33,220 --> 00:06:38,320 a she and I think about what she's seen in her lifetime, what 114 00:06:38,329 --> 00:06:41,549 she's experienced, you know what she's seen come and go. 115 00:06:41,619 --> 00:06:44,570 She would have seen all the cattle walking past a market 116 00:06:44,579 --> 00:06:46,750 that tenant farmers would have been taking in. 117 00:06:49,459 --> 00:06:51,790 ALAN POWER: You can almost see the shepherd, sheltering under 118 00:06:51,799 --> 00:06:54,529 the tree, you know, and having a rest and grazing their animals 119 00:06:54,540 --> 00:06:58,019 as they walk past. But for me as well, trees like this trees as 120 00:06:58,029 --> 00:07:02,140 ancient as this give magnificent punctuation marks on the 121 00:07:02,149 --> 00:07:02,790 landscape. 122 00:07:05,190 --> 00:07:07,380 ANNA TOLFREE: I have heard stories that when somebody 123 00:07:07,390 --> 00:07:10,630 actually did come and have a look at this oak tree, they 124 00:07:10,640 --> 00:07:14,089 looked inside and they were face to face with a fox who was 125 00:07:14,100 --> 00:07:17,250 hiding right in the centre and they didn't move for a few 126 00:07:17,260 --> 00:07:17,970 minutes. 127 00:07:17,980 --> 00:07:20,209 They were, I don't know who was more scared the fox or the 128 00:07:20,220 --> 00:07:23,790 person and they came out in the end. It just, it's great that 129 00:07:23,799 --> 00:07:25,559 she is still sheltering people. 130 00:07:27,269 --> 00:07:30,000 ALAN POWER: And when you look at this tree, what is it? You know, 131 00:07:30,010 --> 00:07:32,410 I don't want to use the word say to you. But what does it mean to 132 00:07:32,420 --> 00:07:34,239 you when you look at a tree of this age? 133 00:07:34,709 --> 00:07:37,399 ANNA TOLFREE: It encompasses what the Trust is all about. 134 00:07:37,410 --> 00:07:42,480 It's looking after what we have and making sure that everyone 135 00:07:42,489 --> 00:07:45,239 has the opportunity to see this sort of thing. 136 00:07:53,190 --> 00:07:56,239 ALAN POWER: We've heard about magnificent ancient trees. 137 00:07:56,250 --> 00:08:00,529 Hannah. And we're now standing in, what you've told me is the 138 00:08:00,540 --> 00:08:02,119 site of an abandoned village. 139 00:08:02,260 --> 00:08:05,549 And while I look around here, I can see really nice kind of wild 140 00:08:05,559 --> 00:08:10,059 grasses dips and furrows in the landscape. But to be honest to 141 00:08:10,070 --> 00:08:12,230 the untrained eye, there's no sign of a village here. So 142 00:08:12,239 --> 00:08:14,359 what's the story around this corner of Stowe. 143 00:08:14,519 --> 00:08:17,250 HANNAH RICHARDS: The dip of trees behind it is, is actually 144 00:08:17,260 --> 00:08:23,589 the, the lines of the road and Lamport Village, which is the 145 00:08:23,600 --> 00:08:28,350 abandoned village is the name of where we're standing now. 146 00:08:28,529 --> 00:08:30,070 ALAN POWER: What would the village of looks like? 147 00:08:31,359 --> 00:08:33,859 HANNAH RICHARDS: Now, the first record we have of Lamport is 148 00:08:33,869 --> 00:08:37,320 actually from 1086 in the Domesday Book. It was a really, 149 00:08:37,330 --> 00:08:40,099 really interesting village because they had quite a diverse 150 00:08:40,109 --> 00:08:41,859 range of tradesmen here. 151 00:08:42,520 --> 00:08:45,809 And we know that there were three fields, all of which 152 00:08:45,820 --> 00:08:48,590 joined together to create a triangular green in the middle 153 00:08:48,599 --> 00:08:51,280 of the village. And from where we're standing, it's really 154 00:08:51,289 --> 00:08:52,320 difficult to see that. 155 00:08:52,330 --> 00:08:55,349 But if you could see an aerial shot of it. You can still to 156 00:08:55,359 --> 00:08:59,099 this day see the dips in the land and you can see the the 157 00:08:59,109 --> 00:09:02,479 trodden pathways of where these farmers would have walked to and 158 00:09:02,489 --> 00:09:03,239 from work. 159 00:09:03,450 --> 00:09:05,830 And you can still see the green in the middle, which would have 160 00:09:05,840 --> 00:09:08,400 been the, the sort of common where people would have 161 00:09:08,409 --> 00:09:09,640 congregated. 162 00:09:10,690 --> 00:09:15,229 We know that it was quite a thriving village in the 1600s. 163 00:09:15,719 --> 00:09:21,130 But then we start to face the problems of the Temple-Grenville 164 00:09:21,140 --> 00:09:24,489 family wanting to build themselves a palace with the 165 00:09:24,500 --> 00:09:26,619 magnificent gardens to go with it. 166 00:09:27,820 --> 00:09:31,320 And they wanted to use a land where Lamport was standing to 167 00:09:31,330 --> 00:09:35,820 create a deer park. Sir Peter Temple was definitely one of 168 00:09:35,830 --> 00:09:39,530 the, the, the nastier members of the family shall we say? 169 00:09:39,539 --> 00:09:42,210 He knew exactly what he wanted and he knew how he was going to 170 00:09:42,219 --> 00:09:42,750 get it. 171 00:09:45,250 --> 00:09:52,630 Yeah, there's so many stories of the residents of Lamport sort of 172 00:09:52,640 --> 00:09:56,530 fighting with the Temple-Grenville's gamekeepers. 173 00:09:58,760 --> 00:10:02,109 We know that there were many, many, many incidents involving 174 00:10:02,119 --> 00:10:06,340 sort of swords and long pike staves and poor gamekeepers 175 00:10:06,349 --> 00:10:07,219 getting injured. 176 00:10:11,390 --> 00:10:13,690 We know from the paperwork that there were lots and lots of 177 00:10:13,700 --> 00:10:17,869 incidents of these, midnight shenanigans where they would 178 00:10:17,880 --> 00:10:21,739 cross the boundaries and have their little fisty cuffs before 179 00:10:21,750 --> 00:10:27,419 they came back. 180 00:10:27,419 --> 00:10:29,909 And it was all because they were fighting over Lamport. 181 00:10:34,109 --> 00:10:38,250 So that's how we know that Lamport started to suffer. 182 00:10:39,000 --> 00:10:40,969 ALAN POWER: And where, where do the residents of the abandoned 183 00:10:40,979 --> 00:10:42,659 village end up going then? 184 00:10:42,659 --> 00:10:44,520 HANNAH RICHARDS: There are records of some of them moving 185 00:10:44,530 --> 00:10:47,669 into other villages in the parish. But I think a lot of 186 00:10:47,679 --> 00:10:51,520 them just actually disappeared off elsewhere into the country. 187 00:11:00,520 --> 00:11:03,099 ALAN POWER: While the poor villagers of Lamport were ousted 188 00:11:03,109 --> 00:11:06,200 from their homes. The Temple-Grenville family had 189 00:11:06,210 --> 00:11:08,659 their way and the garden was a huge success 190 00:11:14,469 --> 00:11:17,729 In the 1700s, Stowe brought visitors from far and wide and 191 00:11:17,739 --> 00:11:20,710 people came to enjoy the stunning landscape and to be 192 00:11:20,719 --> 00:11:23,200 awed by the magnificent temples and the settings. 193 00:11:23,210 --> 00:11:27,059 But over the years, you know, through falling trees and 194 00:11:27,070 --> 00:11:30,559 weathering and deterioration, statues were lost and the shape 195 00:11:30,570 --> 00:11:33,909 I suppose and the story of the landscape was lost to nature a 196 00:11:33,919 --> 00:11:34,400 bit. 197 00:11:34,770 --> 00:11:37,989 Now, the National Trust have been very, very busy over the 198 00:11:38,000 --> 00:11:41,559 last 20 years, if not more restoring the landscape. 199 00:11:41,570 --> 00:11:43,820 And I'm standing here at Stowe today with the assistant head 200 00:11:43,830 --> 00:11:47,090 gardener at Stowe, Paul Stefanovic, and Paul, You've 201 00:11:47,099 --> 00:11:50,039 been involved pretty much since day one of the restoration, 202 00:11:50,049 --> 00:11:50,440 haven't you? 203 00:11:50,450 --> 00:11:52,349 PAUL STEFANOVIC: Absolutely. I've been here from the first 204 00:11:52,359 --> 00:11:55,630 day that National Trust took over from Stowe School. Yes. 205 00:11:56,049 --> 00:11:59,669 Amazing time. I can remember very well at the time we started 206 00:11:59,679 --> 00:12:02,270 the week working for Stowe School and then we ended the 207 00:12:02,280 --> 00:12:05,280 week working for the National Trust and it's just been full on 208 00:12:05,289 --> 00:12:06,919 restoration work ever since. 209 00:12:07,030 --> 00:12:09,409 ALAN POWER: It's amazing to think, isn't it in that time 210 00:12:09,419 --> 00:12:12,210 that you, you probably started a restoration thinking that you'd 211 00:12:12,219 --> 00:12:15,049 finish it at some stage, but you're far from it, aren't you? 212 00:12:15,169 --> 00:12:16,080 PAUL STEFANOVIC: When we first- 213 00:12:16,090 --> 00:12:19,590 Trust first took over, it was a 20 year restoration project and 214 00:12:19,599 --> 00:12:22,770 that was to restore the temples, to re estate, the paths, the 215 00:12:22,780 --> 00:12:28,179 statues, the Park land, reinstate the lot in 20 years. 216 00:12:28,190 --> 00:12:32,130 And, I've been here now for nearly 32 years and I'm still 217 00:12:32,140 --> 00:12:34,570 doing restoration work. So it's just full on and it's totally 218 00:12:34,580 --> 00:12:35,179 ongoing. 219 00:12:35,700 --> 00:12:38,619 ALAN POWER: And it's really interesting thinking about 220 00:12:38,630 --> 00:12:41,520 restoration work in a garden like this because I think 221 00:12:41,530 --> 00:12:44,429 sometimes you think, ok, there's a defined restoration plan. 222 00:12:44,440 --> 00:12:47,659 But I know as you tip toe your way through the garden, whether 223 00:12:47,669 --> 00:12:50,760 it's on foot or in a tractor, you'll come across things like 224 00:12:50,770 --> 00:12:53,960 statue pedestals that you might not have known were there, don't 225 00:12:53,969 --> 00:12:54,309 you? 226 00:12:54,429 --> 00:12:57,799 PAUL STEFANOVIC: Absolutely. Absolutely. And I can give you a 227 00:12:57,809 --> 00:12:59,260 really good example of that. 228 00:12:59,309 --> 00:13:02,460 There was an area where we was actually planting some shrubs 229 00:13:02,679 --> 00:13:06,119 and one of their volunteers suddenly put his spade in and 230 00:13:06,130 --> 00:13:09,539 all of a sudden he shouted out and he hit an enormous stone and 231 00:13:09,549 --> 00:13:11,390 he dug down to try and remove the stone. 232 00:13:11,400 --> 00:13:14,840 And we actually uncovered a statue base literally about 233 00:13:14,849 --> 00:13:16,820 three or four inches under the ground. 234 00:13:16,830 --> 00:13:19,690 And it was on a manicured piece of grass, but the statue was 235 00:13:19,700 --> 00:13:23,260 laid and we excavated it and uncovered it and it was a full, 236 00:13:23,270 --> 00:13:24,859 fully intact statue base. 237 00:13:25,239 --> 00:13:27,909 I mean, the good thing here about Stowe is that we got lots 238 00:13:27,919 --> 00:13:30,710 of information. We got lots of maps, we got guidebooks from a 239 00:13:30,719 --> 00:13:32,400 very early stage. 240 00:13:33,440 --> 00:13:37,570 So, I mean, I use those when I do my restoration work and when 241 00:13:37,580 --> 00:13:39,700 you've been doing it for quite a while, you actually get a feel 242 00:13:39,710 --> 00:13:40,390 for things. 243 00:13:40,400 --> 00:13:43,719 So when I'm looking for pathways or statue bases, you know, you 244 00:13:43,729 --> 00:13:46,130 look for tell-tale signs, you look for trees, you look for 245 00:13:46,140 --> 00:13:49,619 stumps that were possibly there, you know, and you get a feel for 246 00:13:49,630 --> 00:13:52,760 how things were then, even though you can't see them now. 247 00:13:53,770 --> 00:13:55,260 ALAN POWER: We're standing in a part of the garden at the 248 00:13:55,270 --> 00:13:59,330 moment, Paul, that's to me, brand new. 249 00:13:59,330 --> 00:14:03,330 And we have the dancing fawn who's kind of a slightly hunched 250 00:14:03,340 --> 00:14:07,200 over muscular figure with pointy ears and a tiny little tail 251 00:14:07,210 --> 00:14:10,320 coming out of his back, but it's pristine, isn't it? 252 00:14:10,349 --> 00:14:11,580 PAUL STEFANOVIC: It is absolutely pristine. 253 00:14:11,809 --> 00:14:14,059 ALAN POWER: This is new. Were you, did you, were you involved? 254 00:14:14,070 --> 00:14:16,179 Were you here when they discovered the foundations of 255 00:14:16,190 --> 00:14:16,709 this part of the garden? 256 00:14:16,709 --> 00:14:17,799 PAUL STEFANOVIC: It was me that discovered all these 257 00:14:17,809 --> 00:14:21,349 foundations! So first of all, obviously, we have to clear the 258 00:14:21,359 --> 00:14:25,159 trees away through just to find the pathways and then to find 259 00:14:25,169 --> 00:14:28,609 this area here of the dancing fawns, I had my excavator in 260 00:14:28,619 --> 00:14:32,219 here and again, by getting the maps out, we knew roughly where 261 00:14:32,229 --> 00:14:33,890 they were the statue bases. 262 00:14:34,190 --> 00:14:37,020 ALAN POWER: Your job sounds like a bit of a combination of 263 00:14:37,030 --> 00:14:40,669 gardening, archaeology, construction digging, you know, 264 00:14:40,950 --> 00:14:42,770 and research as well. 265 00:14:42,780 --> 00:14:45,940 Putting that jigsaw all back together again and the statues 266 00:14:45,950 --> 00:14:49,419 that we see, you know, are they, are they cast concrete statues 267 00:14:49,429 --> 00:14:52,289 or are they re carved statues? It's hard to tell from here 268 00:14:52,299 --> 00:14:52,869 whether they're? 269 00:14:52,890 --> 00:14:54,289 PAUL STEFANOVIC: I Mean, we've got some, some, we've got some 270 00:14:54,299 --> 00:14:56,750 stone ones here. These ones are actually made of lead. The 271 00:14:56,760 --> 00:15:00,210 smaller ones are made of lead and these are the new coloured 272 00:15:00,219 --> 00:15:01,469 ones you got here. 273 00:15:01,520 --> 00:15:04,260 ALAN POWER: They're painted in proper human dress, aren't they? 274 00:15:04,270 --> 00:15:07,820 You know, the, the dresses the jackets the men are wearing, you 275 00:15:07,830 --> 00:15:09,070 know, they're all painted properly. 276 00:15:09,260 --> 00:15:11,210 PAUL STEFANOVIC: They're all painted properly. And all in the 277 00:15:11,219 --> 00:15:14,719 pastel colours, but given the colour to it, I think it's just 278 00:15:14,729 --> 00:15:18,179 added a little dimension to like the sort of the lime wash on the 279 00:15:18,190 --> 00:15:21,369 stone here. These have been recently lime washed. So that's 280 00:15:21,380 --> 00:15:24,039 why they look really sort of new and fresh. 281 00:15:24,559 --> 00:15:27,530 These two statues that you see here, they actually came from a 282 00:15:27,539 --> 00:15:30,489 garden in Buckingham and when we got them back to the estate, 283 00:15:30,710 --> 00:15:33,299 they, they were very old, they were very warm and they were 284 00:15:33,309 --> 00:15:36,299 covered in lichens. They had moss over them and these have 285 00:15:36,309 --> 00:15:39,500 been, lime washed just recently just to sort of tie it all in 286 00:15:39,510 --> 00:15:39,979 together. 287 00:15:41,169 --> 00:15:43,429 ALAN POWER: Paul, you said these two statues behind came from 288 00:15:43,440 --> 00:15:45,909 Buckingham, which is just down the road from Stowe. How on 289 00:15:45,919 --> 00:15:47,299 earth did they end up down there? 290 00:15:47,419 --> 00:15:48,640 PAUL STEFANOVIC: Totally no idea. 291 00:15:48,650 --> 00:15:51,409 It was one of their volunteers said she had these two statues 292 00:15:51,419 --> 00:15:55,500 in her garden and she kindly donated them back to Stowe. So 293 00:15:55,510 --> 00:15:58,340 she was very kind of her to donate them back. So they took 294 00:15:58,349 --> 00:16:00,080 pride of place in this circle. 295 00:16:09,250 --> 00:16:11,989 ALAN POWER: I'm going to catch up with Hannah again to learn 296 00:16:12,000 --> 00:16:15,150 about some of the other statues and temples that Richard Temple 297 00:16:15,159 --> 00:16:19,390 also known as Lord Cobham had instated in his garden. 298 00:16:21,510 --> 00:16:24,460 Hannah, you can't miss as you wandered through the garden at 299 00:16:24,900 --> 00:16:29,130 Stowe, as we've just done the number of statues that you catch 300 00:16:29,140 --> 00:16:32,010 glimpses of through the trees and they all maintain a high 301 00:16:32,020 --> 00:16:34,599 level of significance in the story of this place, don't they? 302 00:16:35,650 --> 00:16:38,359 HANNAH RICHARDS: Yeah, they, they all have a reason for being 303 00:16:38,369 --> 00:16:42,130 there and a story to tell and where we are now in the Elysian 304 00:16:42,390 --> 00:16:47,840 fields. This is without a doubt, the most political part of the 305 00:16:47,849 --> 00:16:48,429 garden. 306 00:16:50,359 --> 00:16:54,210 Lord Cobham was a prominent politician and he aligned 307 00:16:54,219 --> 00:16:58,849 himself with the, the Whig Party back in the day and he very much 308 00:16:58,859 --> 00:17:03,039 used the gardens and especially the statuary in the garden to 309 00:17:03,049 --> 00:17:05,199 show his political beliefs. 310 00:17:06,260 --> 00:17:08,609 ALAN POWER: And Hannah who were the Whig Party. What were they 311 00:17:08,619 --> 00:17:10,729 all about back in the 18th century? 312 00:17:11,359 --> 00:17:13,680 HANNAH RICHARDS: The easiest way to say it really is. They were 313 00:17:13,689 --> 00:17:16,010 sort of rivals of the Tories. 314 00:17:16,540 --> 00:17:19,540 ALAN POWER: Conham was- Cobham was designing his garden here at 315 00:17:19,550 --> 00:17:21,930 Stowe and how did he fit in with the Whig party? 316 00:17:23,458 --> 00:17:25,968 HANNAH RICHARDS: So he was a very high profile member. 317 00:17:26,409 --> 00:17:30,808 But as Walpole, who was the British Prime Minister and 318 00:17:30,818 --> 00:17:35,298 Cobham fell out, he actually split off and joined some other 319 00:17:35,308 --> 00:17:39,688 high profile members of, of the Whig party and they sort of 320 00:17:39,698 --> 00:17:44,779 fractioned off and started a new patriot opposition based at 321 00:17:44,788 --> 00:17:44,979 Stowe. 322 00:17:48,660 --> 00:17:51,780 ALAN POWER: And we're looking across a sloping landscape, you 323 00:17:51,790 --> 00:17:54,719 know, dressed with some young trees, you know, and some older 324 00:17:54,729 --> 00:17:55,140 trees. 325 00:17:55,150 --> 00:17:58,920 But what we see is the, the swathe of grass that runs into 326 00:17:58,930 --> 00:18:02,270 the distance broken by this lake that runs through the middle and 327 00:18:02,280 --> 00:18:05,979 the temple of the worthy in the distance is kind of a, a semi 328 00:18:06,329 --> 00:18:07,010 circle, isn't it? 329 00:18:07,349 --> 00:18:10,829 HANNAH RICHARDS: Yes. So the design of that is you have the 330 00:18:10,839 --> 00:18:15,839 16 British worthies and these 16 worthies have been picked 331 00:18:15,849 --> 00:18:20,270 because they show the right characteristics that men needed 332 00:18:20,280 --> 00:18:20,869 to have. 333 00:18:20,880 --> 00:18:25,750 The left hand side is the thinkers, shall we say? It's, 334 00:18:25,760 --> 00:18:28,140 it's the eight people that Cobham thought were really, 335 00:18:28,150 --> 00:18:30,300 really, really great for their thinking. 336 00:18:30,680 --> 00:18:33,510 Then as you look across to the right hand side, it's the eight 337 00:18:33,520 --> 00:18:36,420 people who were famous for their doing. 338 00:18:36,920 --> 00:18:42,189 So you've got people of brain power and people of action in 339 00:18:42,199 --> 00:18:47,420 the doers. There's one person in there who really, his name 340 00:18:47,430 --> 00:18:51,910 wasn't known, no one knew who he was. But Cobham and Walpole fell 341 00:18:51,920 --> 00:18:57,069 out largely over the excise bill in 1733. And this John Bernard 342 00:18:57,079 --> 00:18:58,599 who sits on the corner of it. 343 00:18:58,819 --> 00:19:02,229 The reason he's in there is because he voted with Cobham 344 00:19:02,329 --> 00:19:05,020 against Walpole in the excise bill. 345 00:19:05,439 --> 00:19:10,130 So for Cobham to put him in there saying this, this merchant 346 00:19:10,420 --> 00:19:14,359 deserves a place in there when Walpole doesn't it? It's just 347 00:19:14,369 --> 00:19:19,359 such a, a great way to say. Yeah. No, I've, I've had enough 348 00:19:19,369 --> 00:19:21,959 of you. You, you don't deserve a place in my garden. 349 00:19:23,819 --> 00:19:28,150 We also have the, the 17th Secret worthy that not many 350 00:19:28,160 --> 00:19:32,920 people know about. And it's in the form of a poem and it talks 351 00:19:32,930 --> 00:19:38,969 about this Señor Fido who was a great husband and a great hunter 352 00:19:38,979 --> 00:19:42,319 and warrior. And you think, oh gosh, who is this person? 353 00:19:46,020 --> 00:19:48,140 And then when you get to the bottom, you realize actually it 354 00:19:48,150 --> 00:19:52,540 was Cobham's pet Greyhound. So even the dog made it in there. 355 00:19:52,969 --> 00:19:54,319 ALAN POWER: And Walpole didn't! 356 00:19:59,839 --> 00:20:03,219 The view is quite spectacular from the Temple Of Virtue, but 357 00:20:03,229 --> 00:20:06,579 it has significance in other terms as well, doesn't it? 358 00:20:07,650 --> 00:20:11,349 HANNAH RICHARDS: Yeah. So it's very cleverly designed as you 359 00:20:11,359 --> 00:20:14,489 stand here and you look down at it, you'll notice that it feels 360 00:20:14,500 --> 00:20:15,390 really light. 361 00:20:15,599 --> 00:20:19,869 So it's meant to represent a place where the gods pick these 362 00:20:19,880 --> 00:20:23,619 people who can be immortalized and spend the rest of time in 363 00:20:23,630 --> 00:20:24,869 this gorgeous setting. 364 00:20:28,060 --> 00:20:33,560 So the fact that this landscape is so open and just glorious. It 365 00:20:33,719 --> 00:20:37,500 shows that these people belonged here. This Whig government 366 00:20:37,510 --> 00:20:41,900 belonged in such a paradise. Whereas Walpole who's hidden 367 00:20:41,910 --> 00:20:45,280 away under the under the yew trees and his broken down 368 00:20:45,290 --> 00:20:47,859 temple. He had no place here. 369 00:20:54,560 --> 00:20:58,640 ALAN POWER: We've been on an amazing journey today we've met 370 00:20:58,650 --> 00:21:02,040 and heard about a 700 year old tree that's witnessed enormous 371 00:21:02,050 --> 00:21:03,250 change at Stowe. 372 00:21:04,369 --> 00:21:08,140 I've walked through and hopefully described an abandoned 373 00:21:08,150 --> 00:21:09,390 village in the landscape. 374 00:21:10,890 --> 00:21:14,540 We've heard about the complex Whig associations with the 375 00:21:14,550 --> 00:21:15,670 family at Stowe. 376 00:21:17,420 --> 00:21:20,589 We've learned about the, the passion, the success, the 377 00:21:20,599 --> 00:21:24,079 fortune, it costs to create a landscape like this, but also 378 00:21:24,089 --> 00:21:27,000 about the characters throughout history who are almost 379 00:21:27,010 --> 00:21:30,250 determined and a little bit mean to the locals in moving villages 380 00:21:30,260 --> 00:21:32,400 out of the way just to achieve their dream. 381 00:21:38,790 --> 00:21:41,520 And if you want to find out more information about Stowe, you can 382 00:21:41,530 --> 00:21:47,459 visit their website at nationaltrust.org.uk/stowe 383 00:21:51,500 --> 00:21:54,410 For our next full episode, I'll be in Mount Stewart in Northern 384 00:21:54,420 --> 00:21:57,290 Ireland, discovering the wonderful gardens there. 385 00:21:57,859 --> 00:22:00,630 That episode will be available in a couple of weeks, but don't 386 00:22:00,640 --> 00:22:03,369 worry, there will be a mini episode available next week. 387 00:22:03,380 --> 00:22:06,089 We'll be going behind the scenes with one of the rangers, Isabel 388 00:22:06,099 --> 00:22:09,500 Thompson to learn more about the conservation and ecology in 389 00:22:09,510 --> 00:22:14,849 Stowe's Grecian Valley. 390 00:22:14,849 --> 00:22:18,229 To make sure you never miss an episode, subscribe on itunes or 391 00:22:18,239 --> 00:22:21,670 your chosen podcast app and please do let us know what you 392 00:22:21,680 --> 00:22:24,400 thought of this episode and share your suggestions for 393 00:22:24,410 --> 00:22:27,349 future topics on Facebook, Twitter or Instagram. 394 00:22:27,680 --> 00:22:31,619 We're @nationaltrust. You can also email us at 395 00:22:31,630 --> 00:22:35,119 podcasts@nationaltrust.org.uk 396 00:22:36,400 --> 00:22:39,910 Until next time from me, Alan Power and all the team here at 397 00:22:39,920 --> 00:22:41,260 Stowe. Goodbye.