1 00:00:02,569 --> 00:00:04,409 ALAN POWER: Thanks for downloading this garden cutting 2 00:00:04,420 --> 00:00:06,920 from the National Trust in these shorter programmes. I'm 3 00:00:06,929 --> 00:00:09,229 exploring a particular aspect of our work. 4 00:00:09,590 --> 00:00:11,680 I'm Alan Power, the head gardener at Stourhead in 5 00:00:11,689 --> 00:00:13,609 Wiltshire for the National Trust. But today I'm at 6 00:00:13,619 --> 00:00:17,049 Sissinghurst Castle Garden in Kent, which surprisingly sits on 7 00:00:17,059 --> 00:00:19,629 clay soil, which is a big challenge for gardeners. 8 00:00:19,760 --> 00:00:22,280 There's a wonderful Veg Garden here, which wasn't part of the 9 00:00:22,290 --> 00:00:24,969 original design at Sissinghurst, but with some clever gardeners 10 00:00:24,979 --> 00:00:26,879 and clever gardening, they're now able to have one. 11 00:00:30,770 --> 00:00:34,180 I'm standing here with Helen Musgrave and Chris Robinson who 12 00:00:34,189 --> 00:00:36,790 are the brains behind the operation in the Veg Garden. 13 00:00:36,970 --> 00:00:38,150 That's true to say, isn't it? 14 00:00:38,169 --> 00:00:40,950 HELEN MUSGRAVE: Yeah, you could say that. So, we're a team of 15 00:00:40,959 --> 00:00:42,310 two members of staff. 16 00:00:42,830 --> 00:00:46,639 And about 26 volunteers who come for a morning a week and help us 17 00:00:46,650 --> 00:00:48,700 out on the day to day running of the Veg Garden. 18 00:00:48,720 --> 00:00:51,310 ALAN POWER: And as I walked up here from the garden below which 19 00:00:51,319 --> 00:00:54,150 we kind of elevated above in this position, I walked past the 20 00:00:54,159 --> 00:00:55,869 restaurant and there was some nice smells coming out of the 21 00:00:55,880 --> 00:00:57,669 restaurant. Is that your food? 22 00:00:58,419 --> 00:01:01,060 HELEN MUSGRAVE: Yes, some of that will be our food. So, one 23 00:01:01,069 --> 00:01:03,729 of the main aims of the Veg Garden when it was set up was to 24 00:01:03,740 --> 00:01:07,169 provide fresh local food to the restaurant and that's what we 25 00:01:07,180 --> 00:01:07,410 do. 26 00:01:07,419 --> 00:01:11,800 So last year we grew, 4.5 tons worth of produce here on our 27 00:01:11,809 --> 00:01:14,989 four acre site and most of that went to the restaurant. But some 28 00:01:15,000 --> 00:01:17,319 of that we also sell in our plant shop for visitors to take 29 00:01:17,330 --> 00:01:18,050 home with them. 30 00:01:18,059 --> 00:01:19,517 ALAN POWER: 4.5 tons? 31 00:01:19,517 --> 00:01:19,690 HELEN MUSGRAVE: That's Right 32 00:01:19,819 --> 00:01:22,970 ALAN POWER: 4.5 tons. I have to say that again to try and 33 00:01:22,980 --> 00:01:26,290 picture 4.5 tons of food. That's amazing, isn't it? 34 00:01:26,400 --> 00:01:28,040 HELEN MUSGRAVE: Yeah, it's really exciting. And we're on 35 00:01:28,050 --> 00:01:30,430 target to make just a little bit more than that year. So we're 36 00:01:30,440 --> 00:01:31,279 really excited. 37 00:01:31,290 --> 00:01:33,959 ALAN POWER: I'm aware that you're on clay soil. It can be 38 00:01:33,970 --> 00:01:35,019 quite tricky, can't it? 39 00:01:35,129 --> 00:01:37,309 HELEN MUSGRAVE: Yes. So clay soil has quite specific 40 00:01:37,319 --> 00:01:41,400 characteristics and that it's quite a dense soil and it can 41 00:01:41,410 --> 00:01:44,099 become quite waterlogged. So in the winter you can get quite wet 42 00:01:44,110 --> 00:01:47,360 soil, but in the summer it will bake hard a bit like concrete. 43 00:01:47,370 --> 00:01:49,739 ALAN POWER: Your boots become 10 tons heavier by the end of the 44 00:01:49,750 --> 00:01:53,949 day, working on this soil. But I know that you've employed a no 45 00:01:53,959 --> 00:01:58,389 dig kind of policy on how you manage your veg here. And I've 46 00:01:58,400 --> 00:02:01,160 heard of this and read about it, but I've never, I've never 47 00:02:01,169 --> 00:02:03,879 actually employed it and I'm quite keen to because it sounds 48 00:02:03,889 --> 00:02:04,370 great. 49 00:02:04,379 --> 00:02:06,069 HELEN MUSGRAVE: It is great. We've been doing no dig 50 00:02:06,080 --> 00:02:09,759 gardening for four years now here at Sissinghurst. And I 51 00:02:09,770 --> 00:02:12,320 guess the main principles of it are you have these narrow beds 52 00:02:12,330 --> 00:02:14,559 which you never walk on. And that means you're not compacting 53 00:02:14,570 --> 00:02:17,570 the soil and then every year, usually over the winter. So 54 00:02:17,580 --> 00:02:19,759 we've started now, as you can see, lots of our beds have got 55 00:02:19,770 --> 00:02:21,669 lovely dark compost on them. 56 00:02:22,259 --> 00:02:25,419 We just add a layer of mulch or compost to the top of the beds 57 00:02:25,429 --> 00:02:27,949 and don't dig it in and we let the worms and micro organisms 58 00:02:27,960 --> 00:02:29,050 take it in for us. 59 00:02:29,059 --> 00:02:32,399 ALAN POWER: So this dark, rich, lovely looking mulch that's on 60 00:02:32,410 --> 00:02:34,410 the beds. Where, where do you get that from? 61 00:02:35,100 --> 00:02:38,029 HELEN MUSGRAVE: So we buy this from a company who buys from the 62 00:02:38,039 --> 00:02:41,300 council all the bits and pieces that go into your wheelie bin at 63 00:02:41,309 --> 00:02:43,759 home. So it's your green waste that you've, you know, chopped 64 00:02:43,770 --> 00:02:47,039 up a tree in your garden or, got some nasty weeds that you don't 65 00:02:47,050 --> 00:02:50,119 particularly like. They take it away. They turn it into compost 66 00:02:50,130 --> 00:02:52,679 at high temperatures. So it gets rid of all the weed seeds that 67 00:02:52,690 --> 00:02:54,520 are in it and they sell it back to us. 68 00:02:54,520 --> 00:02:55,770 ALAN POWER: Because that's really important, isn't it? 69 00:02:55,779 --> 00:02:58,852 Because sometimes you see, you see mulch and compost coming in 70 00:02:58,861 --> 00:03:01,492 and then you'll almost have a wild flower meadow developing 71 00:03:01,501 --> 00:03:03,531 the next year. A wild flower meadow that you don't want in 72 00:03:03,542 --> 00:03:04,361 your Veg Garden! 73 00:03:04,492 --> 00:03:05,841 HELEN MUSGRAVE: Yeah, that's right. I think the key is 74 00:03:05,852 --> 00:03:09,111 keeping it- getting up to that high temperature and then that 75 00:03:09,121 --> 00:03:10,992 just kills off any seeds that are in there. 76 00:03:11,281 --> 00:03:13,511 ALAN POWER: And obviously with the clay soil, you, you must 77 00:03:13,522 --> 00:03:16,621 have to put tons of organic matter on for the worms to come 78 00:03:16,632 --> 00:03:16,841 in. 79 00:03:17,141 --> 00:03:19,132 HELEN MUSGRAVE: And, yeah, so we probably layer about a couple of 80 00:03:19,141 --> 00:03:22,684 inches of compost onto the top beds. But clay soil is great 81 00:03:22,694 --> 00:03:23,794 because it holds nutrients. 82 00:03:23,804 --> 00:03:26,544 So quite often it's quite high in nutrients anyway. So we're 83 00:03:26,554 --> 00:03:29,173 not adding loads of manures, which will have lots of 84 00:03:29,184 --> 00:03:32,294 nutrients to add into the soils. It's almost as if we're just 85 00:03:32,304 --> 00:03:35,214 adding a soil conditioner to break down the soils a little 86 00:03:35,223 --> 00:03:36,514 bit and have a better structure. 87 00:03:36,643 --> 00:03:39,393 ALAN POWER: And Chris, you, you volunteered here for five years 88 00:03:39,404 --> 00:03:39,593 now? 89 00:03:40,044 --> 00:03:40,934 CHRIS ROBINSON: Five years. 90 00:03:41,134 --> 00:03:43,914 ALAN POWER: You've employed no dig at home as well, have you? 91 00:03:43,923 --> 00:03:46,365 CHRIS ROBINSON: I have because I'm on clay as well. 92 00:03:46,746 --> 00:03:49,925 And the no dig gives you the opportunity to work the ground 93 00:03:49,936 --> 00:03:55,145 all year. So with the mulching and not walking on the soil, you 94 00:03:55,156 --> 00:03:56,865 can plant into just the surface. 95 00:03:56,876 --> 00:03:58,505 ALAN POWER: And how narrow are your beds at home? 96 00:03:58,516 --> 00:03:59,296 CHRIS ROBINSON: 4 ft wide 97 00:04:00,005 --> 00:04:03,565 So we can work from either side. No digging would be nothing 98 00:04:03,576 --> 00:04:07,175 without the mulch at home. Don't be afraid to put a good mulch on 99 00:04:07,186 --> 00:04:10,160 top and then just leave it. Don't try and dig it in. 100 00:04:10,160 --> 00:04:11,920 ALAN POWER: And the worms will do all the? 101 00:04:11,920 --> 00:04:12,509 CHRIS ROBINSON: And the worms will do all the digging for you. 102 00:04:12,520 --> 00:04:14,270 ALAN POWER: So you can sit back and have a cup of tea and watch 103 00:04:14,279 --> 00:04:14,710 it happen. 104 00:04:14,720 --> 00:04:18,200 Tell me we're standing here, chilly December Day. Can you 105 00:04:18,209 --> 00:04:20,730 roughly run me through what you've got in the garden at the 106 00:04:20,739 --> 00:04:21,160 moment? 107 00:04:21,170 --> 00:04:23,519 HELEN MUSGRAVE: Lots of lovely winter vegetables. So we've got 108 00:04:23,529 --> 00:04:26,670 leeks, cabbages, Brussels Sprouts have just started to be 109 00:04:26,679 --> 00:04:27,269 ready. 110 00:04:27,440 --> 00:04:30,850 Lots of different types of Kale. We've got early purple 111 00:04:30,859 --> 00:04:34,045 sprouting, which is in which will be harvesting next year And 112 00:04:34,054 --> 00:04:36,225 we're really lucky as well as Sissinghurst because we've got 113 00:04:36,234 --> 00:04:38,855 two polytunnels and these just provide a really nice 114 00:04:38,864 --> 00:04:42,054 environment, a bit of a warmer environment so we can grow crops 115 00:04:42,065 --> 00:04:42,964 and throughout the year. 116 00:04:42,975 --> 00:04:46,195 So we grow all our salad crops in there through the winter so 117 00:04:46,204 --> 00:04:48,785 we can get some really nice spicy different salad mixes out 118 00:04:48,795 --> 00:04:51,274 into the restaurant even when it's snowing outside. 119 00:04:51,484 --> 00:04:53,394 ALAN POWER: That's brilliant. Thank you both very much. 120 00:04:53,404 --> 00:04:54,274 CHRIS ROBINSON: Thank you. 121 00:04:55,209 --> 00:04:57,029 ALAN POWER: Thanks for downloading this garden cutting 122 00:04:57,040 --> 00:04:59,750 from the National Trust. If you've enjoyed this podcast, you 123 00:04:59,760 --> 00:05:01,899 can find more of them by searching National Trust 124 00:05:01,910 --> 00:05:05,119 Gardens, subscribe on itunes or follow us on your favorite 125 00:05:05,130 --> 00:05:06,209 podcast app. 126 00:05:06,760 --> 00:05:09,190 We'd love to know what you think of the series to help us make 127 00:05:09,200 --> 00:05:12,029 more of them in the future. So please do leave us a review on 128 00:05:12,040 --> 00:05:15,100 itunes as well as filling out our survey which you find in the 129 00:05:15,109 --> 00:05:17,940 program description and I hope you can join me again soon. 130 00:05:25,630 --> 00:05:27,929 BETTANY HUGHES: I'm Bettany Hughes. I've been visiting 131 00:05:27,940 --> 00:05:29,980 National Trust properties all my life. 132 00:05:30,320 --> 00:05:34,200 But in this series of podcasts, I'm going beyond the delights of 133 00:05:34,209 --> 00:05:39,220 tees and topiary to reveal the surprising European roots of 134 00:05:39,230 --> 00:05:41,529 some of the most splendid sites in England. 135 00:05:42,410 --> 00:05:45,975 You can subscribe to my series by searching for Bettany 136 00:05:45,975 --> 00:05:51,059 Hughes's 10 places, Europe and us on your podcast app.