1 00:00:03,660 --> 00:00:06,239 ALAN POWER: Welcome to the National Trust Gardens podcast. 2 00:00:06,250 --> 00:00:08,380 I'm Alan Power, the head gardener at Stourhead in 3 00:00:08,390 --> 00:00:08,890 Wiltshire. 4 00:00:09,489 --> 00:00:12,100 And this is the second of our three part series, bringing you 5 00:00:12,109 --> 00:00:14,550 the secrets behind one of Britain's most beautiful 6 00:00:14,560 --> 00:00:18,059 gardens. Today, I'm at Croome Park in Worcestershire, a 7 00:00:18,069 --> 00:00:21,829 wonderful 18th century landscape garden designed by Capability 8 00:00:21,840 --> 00:00:25,250 Brown and the Earl at the time decorated with 18th century 9 00:00:25,260 --> 00:00:28,190 garden features and a centrepiece, a beautiful 10 00:00:28,200 --> 00:00:31,989 Palladian House. It's overlooked by the magnificent Malvern Hills 11 00:00:32,000 --> 00:00:32,830 in the distance. 12 00:00:33,580 --> 00:00:36,639 Today, I'm here to find out what makes this place so special. 13 00:00:37,389 --> 00:00:40,529 It may once have been a boggy marsh, but it's where one of the 14 00:00:40,540 --> 00:00:43,970 world's greatest landscape gardeners cut his teeth in the 15 00:00:43,979 --> 00:00:44,889 18th century. 16 00:00:51,380 --> 00:00:54,560 Croome has had many uses over the last century, not just as a 17 00:00:54,569 --> 00:00:58,270 wonderful place to visit. The uses have been diverse and wide 18 00:00:58,279 --> 00:01:01,790 ranging. It was a secret wartime airbase at one stage. It's been 19 00:01:01,799 --> 00:01:05,239 a boys school. It's been a Hare Krishna Institution and it was 20 00:01:05,250 --> 00:01:09,250 overlaid with intensive farmland for quite a long time. 21 00:01:09,250 --> 00:01:12,230 In the 18th century, this was the very first estate that was 22 00:01:12,239 --> 00:01:15,680 created in its entirety by the landscape gardener Capability 23 00:01:15,690 --> 00:01:16,120 Brown. 24 00:01:16,440 --> 00:01:20,199 But its recent history has left marks on the landscape. The 25 00:01:20,209 --> 00:01:22,860 National Trust have been working really hard to restore the 26 00:01:22,870 --> 00:01:26,480 gardens to their 18th century style since 1996. 27 00:01:26,800 --> 00:01:28,959 I'm standing near the visitor centre at the northern end of 28 00:01:28,970 --> 00:01:31,639 the estate where we're sheltered from the wind and I'm meeting 29 00:01:31,650 --> 00:01:33,839 Katherine Alker, the head gardener at Croome. 30 00:01:34,500 --> 00:01:36,879 Now, Katherine, you've been here a while, haven't you? 31 00:01:37,230 --> 00:01:40,069 KATHERINE ALKER: Yes. Hi, Alan. I've been here just about 10 32 00:01:40,080 --> 00:01:43,680 years now. It's changed enormously over the past few 33 00:01:43,690 --> 00:01:47,550 centuries and is still changing massively now. And what what 34 00:01:47,559 --> 00:01:51,800 we're doing here is restoring the vision of Capability Brown, 35 00:01:52,239 --> 00:01:55,629 along with the Sixth Earl of Coventry to transform what was 36 00:01:55,639 --> 00:02:00,199 quite an unproductive piece of land into a beautiful landscaped 37 00:02:00,209 --> 00:02:05,790 designed garden with beautiful pasture and yeah, a wonderful 38 00:02:05,800 --> 00:02:06,379 landscape. 39 00:02:06,629 --> 00:02:09,259 ALAN POWER: Katherine today, I have the privilege of you taking 40 00:02:09,270 --> 00:02:13,539 me around your garden. And what I really want to try and get 41 00:02:13,550 --> 00:02:17,089 today is, is more inspiration from Capability Brown's kind of 42 00:02:17,100 --> 00:02:19,309 winter landscape work that he did. 43 00:02:19,309 --> 00:02:21,880 KATHERINE ALKER: Great! And we'll start off with a walk down 44 00:02:21,889 --> 00:02:22,860 the wilderness walk. 45 00:02:30,970 --> 00:02:33,470 ALAN POWER: Katherine, we're standing looking at Brown's 46 00:02:33,479 --> 00:02:37,850 amazing work and this is what thrills me about 18th century 47 00:02:37,860 --> 00:02:41,229 landscape gardens. They're just stunning. They take your breath 48 00:02:41,240 --> 00:02:46,690 away when you emerge from a dark surrounded protected walk like 49 00:02:46,699 --> 00:02:50,550 we just have and you see a view like this across the English 50 00:02:50,559 --> 00:02:51,210 landscape. 51 00:02:51,399 --> 00:02:55,809 And although immediately it's not, it's not obvious the 52 00:02:55,820 --> 00:02:59,880 efforts that went into creating this landscape. It's- it's there 53 00:02:59,889 --> 00:03:00,889 in the detail. 54 00:03:00,889 --> 00:03:04,410 For me as a gardener, I start looking at the efforts from 55 00:03:04,419 --> 00:03:08,139 history, the huge cedar trees that were planted strategically 56 00:03:08,149 --> 00:03:11,500 around the estate to guide your eyes to particular views. 57 00:03:11,710 --> 00:03:13,809 And then I'm looking down at the efforts that you're making 58 00:03:13,820 --> 00:03:17,479 nowadays as, as a garden team, I can see young ambitious trees 59 00:03:17,490 --> 00:03:21,369 planted and surrounded with tree guards. But the whole thing sits 60 00:03:21,380 --> 00:03:24,940 magnificently below the Malvern Hills in the distance. And we're 61 00:03:24,949 --> 00:03:28,000 lucky enough to catch a little bit of November sunshine today. 62 00:03:28,009 --> 00:03:31,520 So what we can see is the shadow stretching across the landscape 63 00:03:31,529 --> 00:03:34,110 and it's looking absolutely amazing. 64 00:03:34,279 --> 00:03:37,389 KATHERINE ALKER: It's been a huge amount of work. But we're, 65 00:03:37,399 --> 00:03:41,070 we're really pleased with how everything's progressing and how 66 00:03:41,080 --> 00:03:42,750 the restoration is coming along. 67 00:03:42,750 --> 00:03:46,880 Standing here in 1996, what we would have seen is an arable 68 00:03:46,889 --> 00:03:50,830 crop. Nearly all of the park and trees had disappeared. 69 00:03:51,380 --> 00:03:54,645 Either due to Dutch Elm Disease because they were awful lot of 70 00:03:54,654 --> 00:03:58,164 elms across the parkland or simply because the farmer had 71 00:03:58,175 --> 00:04:01,014 wanted to get the most productivity from the land and- 72 00:04:01,014 --> 00:04:03,684 ploughed very close to the trees or remove them. 73 00:04:03,695 --> 00:04:06,244 ALAN POWER: Now, the landscape was dressed quite- with a lot of 74 00:04:06,255 --> 00:04:08,485 detail, wasn't it In the 18th century? There was quite a plant 75 00:04:08,494 --> 00:04:09,384 collection at Croome. 76 00:04:09,535 --> 00:04:11,235 KATHERINE ALKER: It was an amazing plant collection. Yeah, 77 00:04:11,244 --> 00:04:15,445 the Sixth Earl of Coventry was really an obsessed man. He loved 78 00:04:15,455 --> 00:04:19,454 plants and spent an absolute fortune bringing in plants from 79 00:04:19,464 --> 00:04:20,540 across the globe. 80 00:04:20,609 --> 00:04:25,230 We've got lots of evidence in the archive, the plant bills and 81 00:04:25,239 --> 00:04:29,929 also a guidebook from 1824 that shows us that they were bringing 82 00:04:29,940 --> 00:04:33,529 in plants from the Far East, from the Americas from all 83 00:04:33,540 --> 00:04:36,239 across the globe really. And, and that was driven by the 84 00:04:36,250 --> 00:04:38,100 Earl's passion for planting. 85 00:04:38,329 --> 00:04:40,109 ALAN POWER: And I know you're working really hard at the 86 00:04:40,119 --> 00:04:42,070 moment, aren't you planting trees? How many trees do you 87 00:04:42,079 --> 00:04:44,179 reckon you've planted in the 10 years you've been here? 88 00:04:44,190 --> 00:04:46,265 KATHERINE ALKER: We have certainly planted thousands, I 89 00:04:46,274 --> 00:04:49,774 would say easily over 10,000 trees. And then shrubs 90 00:04:49,785 --> 00:04:52,355 throughout the shrubberies, we've also done a huge amount of 91 00:04:52,364 --> 00:04:53,075 planting- 92 00:04:53,165 --> 00:04:55,214 ALAN POWER: It must have been amazing for you. The first day 93 00:04:55,225 --> 00:04:58,364 you saw livestock wandering through the trees and the tree 94 00:04:58,375 --> 00:04:58,725 guards. 95 00:04:58,734 --> 00:05:02,144 KATHERINE ALKER: It's lovely and the cattle down on church hill, 96 00:05:02,144 --> 00:05:06,154 just add a beautiful sense of scale. The tenant farmers now 97 00:05:06,165 --> 00:05:09,475 got the right breeds of cattle, so they really look part of the 98 00:05:09,484 --> 00:05:10,825 18th century landscape. 99 00:05:11,570 --> 00:05:14,679 ALAN POWER: How on earth did he get it from being a boggy marsh 100 00:05:15,519 --> 00:05:17,339 to the magnificence of Croome. 101 00:05:17,640 --> 00:05:19,809 KATHERINE ALKER: When Brown arrived here, Croome Court, he 102 00:05:19,820 --> 00:05:22,369 was initially commissioned by the Sixth Earl to actually work 103 00:05:22,380 --> 00:05:25,790 on the court rather than just the landscape. So he would have 104 00:05:25,799 --> 00:05:29,880 seen a much smaller Croome Court, a brick building, but 105 00:05:29,890 --> 00:05:33,609 also sitting in quite an unproductive area of land. There 106 00:05:33,619 --> 00:05:37,709 was a church nearby to the court as well as a little hamlet of 107 00:05:37,720 --> 00:05:39,660 buildings and a few farm buildings. 108 00:05:39,670 --> 00:05:43,410 But typical Brown, That wasn't quite right for him. So he, he 109 00:05:43,420 --> 00:05:47,920 expanded the court, put towers on the end and enveloped the 110 00:05:47,929 --> 00:05:50,850 building in the beautiful bath stone that we can see today. 111 00:05:51,049 --> 00:05:55,200 But also, he wanted a much more open view from the court across 112 00:05:55,209 --> 00:06:00,390 the landscape. So the church was demolished and the hamlet was 113 00:06:00,399 --> 00:06:04,160 moved about a mile away and then Brown himself redesigned the 114 00:06:04,170 --> 00:06:07,119 church and this is the church that we can see today. 115 00:06:07,130 --> 00:06:10,029 ALAN POWER: And it was all about creating the kind of utopian 116 00:06:10,040 --> 00:06:13,100 effect on the landscape. Wasn't it making it that perfect 117 00:06:13,109 --> 00:06:13,579 picture? 118 00:06:14,029 --> 00:06:17,059 KATHERINE ALKER: That's right. And Brown, I think was he was at 119 00:06:17,070 --> 00:06:21,320 the start of his career when he worked at Croome. The Earl took 120 00:06:21,329 --> 00:06:25,890 a bit of a gamble on him and it certainly paid off and he became 121 00:06:25,899 --> 00:06:29,890 one of the country's most famous landscape designers. 122 00:06:33,380 --> 00:06:36,059 ALAN POWER: So I'm meeting with Michael Smith, the general 123 00:06:36,070 --> 00:06:38,709 manager of Croome. Now, general managers for the National Trust 124 00:06:38,720 --> 00:06:42,459 do all sorts of stuff. They look after the conservation ambitions 125 00:06:42,470 --> 00:06:45,359 for the property, the finance for the property, the visitor 126 00:06:45,369 --> 00:06:49,799 experience at the property and every aspect of the management 127 00:06:49,809 --> 00:06:53,000 of the property. But we're standing outside a hut at Croome 128 00:06:53,010 --> 00:06:55,829 today Michael, can you just describe where we are? 129 00:06:56,739 --> 00:06:58,029 MICHAEL SMITH: Well, this hut- And there are many huts like 130 00:06:58,040 --> 00:07:00,829 this spread out across the landscape at Croome is part of 131 00:07:00,839 --> 00:07:05,109 RAF Defford which in the 1940s was an RAF base instrumental in 132 00:07:05,119 --> 00:07:08,709 the development of airborne radar systems. It was all top 133 00:07:08,720 --> 00:07:11,350 secret at the time and it's a quite phenomenal story. 134 00:07:11,369 --> 00:07:13,320 ALAN POWER: It is, isn't it? Can you tell us a little bit more 135 00:07:13,420 --> 00:07:17,040 the kind of the RAF impact on the- on Croomes landscape here? 136 00:07:17,049 --> 00:07:18,989 MICHAEL SMITH: Yeah, there was colossal change at Croome in the 137 00:07:19,000 --> 00:07:22,679 1940s and of course those wide open pastures that Brown had set 138 00:07:22,690 --> 00:07:26,519 out here in the 18th century were the ideal place to create 139 00:07:26,529 --> 00:07:30,130 an airbase. And Croome had three vast interlocking runways, and a 140 00:07:30,140 --> 00:07:32,750 village sprang up here which eventually accommodated almost 141 00:07:32,760 --> 00:07:34,230 3000 service personnel. 142 00:07:34,239 --> 00:07:37,600 So this sprang up over a very short time and here with over 143 00:07:37,609 --> 00:07:41,899 200 aircraft on station, our British electronics experts were 144 00:07:41,910 --> 00:07:44,859 kitting out newly developed radar systems into each and 145 00:07:44,869 --> 00:07:47,769 every type of plane and then testing them, trialling them 146 00:07:47,769 --> 00:07:47,910 here. 147 00:07:48,510 --> 00:07:52,160 There was a whole amount of sort of counter propaganda that went 148 00:07:52,170 --> 00:07:54,140 out. The story about pilots 149 00:07:54,190 --> 00:07:57,290 eyesight being helped by eating carrots was an invention that 150 00:07:57,299 --> 00:08:01,070 came out of RAF Defford to throw our enemies off the trail of 151 00:08:01,079 --> 00:08:02,109 what was really happening here. 152 00:08:02,119 --> 00:08:04,429 But through the efforts of the the young service people here, 153 00:08:04,440 --> 00:08:08,309 service men and service women, developments were made that were 154 00:08:08,320 --> 00:08:10,829 instrumental in securing the allied victory in World War Two. 155 00:08:11,000 --> 00:08:13,809 ALAN POWER: And Michael this- this museum this ambulance shed, 156 00:08:13,809 --> 00:08:15,690 was nearly lost at one stage, wasn't it? 157 00:08:15,700 --> 00:08:17,799 MICHAEL SMITH: It was, we caught these buildings just the nick of 158 00:08:17,809 --> 00:08:20,480 time. And in the 1940s, they were thrown up in a great hurry 159 00:08:20,489 --> 00:08:22,700 as temporary structures, you know, they're half a brick 160 00:08:22,709 --> 00:08:23,320 thick. 161 00:08:23,390 --> 00:08:26,839 And when we took on the management of the state in 1996 162 00:08:26,850 --> 00:08:29,325 we didn't really realize the significance of them and they 163 00:08:29,335 --> 00:08:31,966 were all boarded up in various states of decline, covered with 164 00:08:31,976 --> 00:08:33,325 brambles and scrub. 165 00:08:33,556 --> 00:08:36,346 But gradually as we got to meet the veterans of the air base, we 166 00:08:36,356 --> 00:08:39,265 understood how important they were. We realized that there was 167 00:08:39,276 --> 00:08:41,466 another very important story to tell. 168 00:08:41,575 --> 00:08:44,325 ALAN POWER: Has there been many more significant changes in the 169 00:08:44,335 --> 00:08:45,793 history of landscape at Croome? 170 00:08:45,793 --> 00:08:47,846 MICHAEL SMITH: There have and I think there's a tendency to see 171 00:08:47,856 --> 00:08:51,611 the 1940s developments here as an anomaly. But even after the 172 00:08:51,622 --> 00:08:54,952 1940s, other communities have made the very most of what 173 00:08:54,961 --> 00:08:57,851 Croome has to offer, including devotees of Krishna. 174 00:08:57,861 --> 00:09:02,052 And in 1979 with funding help from George Harrison. Krishna 175 00:09:02,242 --> 00:09:06,411 devotees acquired Croome Court renamed it Caitanya College. And 176 00:09:06,421 --> 00:09:09,932 the natural landscape here has always been appealing in a draw 177 00:09:09,942 --> 00:09:12,052 to whoever has called Croome home. 178 00:09:12,340 --> 00:09:14,679 ALAN POWER: It's fantastic, isn't it? And these people, all 179 00:09:14,690 --> 00:09:18,159 of these people were, were building what is the countryside 180 00:09:18,169 --> 00:09:21,060 around here now? You know, what is the heart of the countryside. 181 00:09:21,060 --> 00:09:23,039 It's such a beautiful place to come. 182 00:09:23,049 --> 00:09:24,359 It's been really fantastic. 183 00:09:24,369 --> 00:09:35,080 MICHAEL SMITH: Cheers Alan, Thanks. 184 00:09:35,080 --> 00:09:36,479 ALAN POWER: Katherine, this is a bit better. down here, isn't it 185 00:09:36,489 --> 00:09:39,380 out of the wind? And we've captured, you know, a little bit 186 00:09:39,390 --> 00:09:42,719 of warm sunshine kind of on our backs, which is really nice this 187 00:09:42,729 --> 00:09:43,169 time of year. 188 00:09:44,030 --> 00:09:47,830 And we're in November, you and I as gardeners were saying goodbye 189 00:09:47,840 --> 00:09:49,900 to autumn colour and we're welcoming in the winter. And do 190 00:09:49,909 --> 00:09:52,099 you find this time of year particularly exciting at Croome? 191 00:09:52,500 --> 00:09:55,640 KATHERINE ALKER: There's still lots lots going on here. Part of 192 00:09:55,650 --> 00:09:59,320 Brown's design actually included an evergreen shrubbery. So at 193 00:09:59,330 --> 00:10:02,369 this time of year, it's actually the perfect place to be because 194 00:10:02,380 --> 00:10:06,739 you've still got flowering shrubs, scented shrubs and it 195 00:10:06,750 --> 00:10:10,479 was designed as a winter walk. So, somewhere to enjoy once the 196 00:10:10,489 --> 00:10:13,080 main summer planting had finished, really. 197 00:10:13,229 --> 00:10:15,340 ALAN POWER: And the structure within those borders is quite 198 00:10:15,349 --> 00:10:17,280 amazing as well, isn't it? You get the berries, you get the 199 00:10:17,289 --> 00:10:20,299 foliage, you get the, the, the center of the foliage in places, 200 00:10:20,309 --> 00:10:23,210 but the way he structured the borders was quite. Fascinating 201 00:10:23,219 --> 00:10:23,520 as well. 202 00:10:23,530 --> 00:10:27,580 KATHERINE ALKER: That's right. It's quite a windy day and, what 203 00:10:27,590 --> 00:10:31,270 we've got at the back of the shrubbery is a line of evergreen 204 00:10:31,280 --> 00:10:35,440 trees, that would have protected from the prevailing winds so 205 00:10:35,450 --> 00:10:39,109 that the plants inside the shrubbery, the real interesting 206 00:10:39,119 --> 00:10:40,989 stuff, was protected. 207 00:10:41,000 --> 00:10:43,880 It had a little microclimate and it could flourish within that 208 00:10:43,890 --> 00:10:48,059 shrubbery even though it's quite exposed out in the Parkland. 209 00:10:48,270 --> 00:10:51,590 We've got plants that will give off scent in winter and early 210 00:10:51,599 --> 00:10:55,169 spring, and even some things that are very early flowering. 211 00:10:55,179 --> 00:10:59,010 So, for example, Daphnes, which have not only beautiful little 212 00:10:59,020 --> 00:11:03,130 pink flowers but amazing scent as well and it just fills the 213 00:11:03,140 --> 00:11:03,830 shrubbery. 214 00:11:03,840 --> 00:11:06,140 ALAN POWER: And it's nice, isn't it? Because it's predominantly 215 00:11:06,150 --> 00:11:09,169 evergreen plants through here. You're not reminded of the end 216 00:11:09,179 --> 00:11:12,549 of a season. You're not reminded that summer is gone and autumn's 217 00:11:12,559 --> 00:11:15,590 gone, you're, you're surrounded by plants that are constantly 218 00:11:15,599 --> 00:11:16,239 alive. 219 00:11:16,429 --> 00:11:18,590 KATHERINE ALKER: That's right. The Portuguese Laurel with 220 00:11:18,599 --> 00:11:22,179 beautiful glossy leaves- Hollies. There's one just over 221 00:11:22,190 --> 00:11:26,000 there with bright red berries. So loads still to keep us 222 00:11:26,010 --> 00:11:27,500 interested throughout the winter. 223 00:11:27,559 --> 00:11:30,059 ALAN POWER: And the Rosemary is one that is really striking for 224 00:11:30,070 --> 00:11:33,820 me because, you know, I'm a bit of a touchy feely plant person. 225 00:11:33,830 --> 00:11:36,710 So I'll always- if I know there's a scent coming from it, 226 00:11:36,719 --> 00:11:38,919 I'll go and grab it and, you know, I carry that scent around 227 00:11:38,929 --> 00:11:42,429 for a while, but there's a few kind of non-standard shrubs in 228 00:11:42,440 --> 00:11:43,219 here, isn't there? 229 00:11:43,390 --> 00:11:45,340 KATHERINE ALKER: There are. Yeah, we've used Rosemary here. 230 00:11:45,349 --> 00:11:49,260 We know that they planted Rosemary in the shrubberies. And 231 00:11:49,270 --> 00:11:53,479 we also have some Sage which hasn't lasted quite so well in 232 00:11:53,489 --> 00:11:56,950 the harsh winters. I've got Jasmine for that, that spring 233 00:11:56,960 --> 00:12:00,800 flowering brightness of yellow colour throughout the winter. 234 00:12:00,800 --> 00:12:03,862 Guelder Rose with bright glossy red berries as well. 235 00:12:03,953 --> 00:12:07,763 We've also got a couple of Witch Hazels, the Hamamelis, which 236 00:12:07,773 --> 00:12:12,853 have the really, sort of spider like yellow flowers. And again, 237 00:12:12,862 --> 00:12:15,033 some of those have fantastic scent. 238 00:12:15,033 --> 00:12:19,353 In the records, there were also hundreds of different Ericas, so 239 00:12:19,362 --> 00:12:22,366 hundreds of different heathers, we haven't quite got to the 240 00:12:22,375 --> 00:12:26,286 stage of replanting that particular section yet. We'll 241 00:12:26,296 --> 00:12:29,645 need to sort out the, the soil for that because they need 242 00:12:29,656 --> 00:12:33,676 Ericaceous compost. And even in the records, there's an example 243 00:12:33,685 --> 00:12:37,596 of them bringing in tons and tons of Ericaceous soil to plant 244 00:12:37,606 --> 00:12:39,075 those, those heathers in so- 245 00:12:39,085 --> 00:12:40,635 ALAN POWER: They used to make it themselves didn't they? And I've 246 00:12:40,645 --> 00:12:44,806 read in a few archives in places how, you know, they would go to 247 00:12:44,815 --> 00:12:48,325 a local timber mill and they would use the, the sawdust from 248 00:12:48,335 --> 00:12:52,190 pine trees to kind of add to the- add to the soil along with 249 00:12:52,200 --> 00:12:56,080 some kind of charcoal and that kind of thing and cinders, to 250 00:12:56,090 --> 00:12:58,460 actually, you know, increase the acidity level in it. 251 00:12:58,469 --> 00:13:01,750 So it's- they were real kind of garden scientists but- 252 00:13:02,109 --> 00:13:03,640 KATHERINE ALKER: Chemistry in the garden. 253 00:13:04,159 --> 00:13:06,130 ALAN POWER: Well, it's nice that variegated holly is really 254 00:13:06,140 --> 00:13:08,690 striking, isn't it? Because? And the birds haven't got to the 255 00:13:08,700 --> 00:13:10,659 berries yet. I'm sure they'll discover them over the next 256 00:13:10,669 --> 00:13:13,650 month or so as the temperatures drop, but they'll get in there. 257 00:13:13,669 --> 00:13:17,280 KATHERINE ALKER: Yeah. And we've also got Broom, lots of 258 00:13:17,289 --> 00:13:20,940 different pines as well. There were a huge number of pines in 259 00:13:20,950 --> 00:13:24,500 the archive records in the plant bills. So that gives us a nice 260 00:13:24,510 --> 00:13:26,489 bit of structure throughout the shrubbery as well. 261 00:13:26,539 --> 00:13:29,190 ALAN POWER: Fantastic, isn't it? It is. It's a living library of 262 00:13:29,200 --> 00:13:31,289 stuff, isn't it? And back then they were just learning about 263 00:13:31,299 --> 00:13:34,099 plants as well all the time. It's amazing. The more I'm 264 00:13:34,109 --> 00:13:37,640 learning about Croome today, the more fascinating it gets. 265 00:13:37,650 --> 00:13:41,039 The depth of knowledge and the depth of history and the depth 266 00:13:41,049 --> 00:13:44,719 of nature conservation here is genuinely, you know, it's 267 00:13:44,729 --> 00:13:46,840 moving, you know, it's a wonderful thing to hear. 268 00:13:46,989 --> 00:13:52,900 KATHERINE ALKER: Well, it's been a delight to show you round. 269 00:13:52,900 --> 00:13:54,840 ALAN POWER: I've left behind the evergreen shrubbery and I'm 270 00:13:54,849 --> 00:13:57,659 heading down towards the lake under this dry arch bridge to 271 00:13:57,669 --> 00:14:00,039 meet Hugh Warwick, the area ranger at Croome. 272 00:14:00,789 --> 00:14:03,070 Hi, Hugh, how are you doing? Yeah, good. Thank you. How are 273 00:14:03,080 --> 00:14:06,309 you? Yeah. Not too bad. Not too bad. So, your role here is area 274 00:14:06,320 --> 00:14:07,419 ranger. What does it involve? 275 00:14:07,429 --> 00:14:11,489 HUGH WARWICK: The main focus for my work here is across the 276 00:14:11,500 --> 00:14:13,909 parkland and woodland. So I'm responsible for looking after 277 00:14:13,919 --> 00:14:18,289 those trying to maintain the good conservation work that we 278 00:14:18,299 --> 00:14:21,890 do and to do the restoration work as well to try to get this 279 00:14:21,900 --> 00:14:24,859 place back to how Brown first envisaged it. 280 00:14:25,150 --> 00:14:27,770 ALAN POWER: So, parkland and woodland, you say, but actually 281 00:14:27,780 --> 00:14:30,820 we've just come under this dry arch bridge and the first thing 282 00:14:30,830 --> 00:14:31,890 I'm met with was this water. 283 00:14:32,260 --> 00:14:34,690 HUGH WARWICK: Yes, we've got a mile and three quarter long 284 00:14:34,700 --> 00:14:38,409 artificial river here at Croome and then that's all well within 285 00:14:38,419 --> 00:14:41,140 the parkland. And we try our best to manage that. 286 00:14:41,340 --> 00:14:44,200 ALAN POWER: And have you had to do any kind of silt management 287 00:14:44,210 --> 00:14:45,609 or anything like that with the lakes here. 288 00:14:45,780 --> 00:14:48,640 HUGH WARWICK: Yeah, certainly when, when the National Trust 289 00:14:48,650 --> 00:14:52,890 took Croome on, in 1996 the full length of the river here was 290 00:14:52,900 --> 00:14:56,450 almost entirely silted up. You could walk across the river in 291 00:14:56,460 --> 00:15:00,539 quite a few places. That, in its own right was a really good 292 00:15:00,549 --> 00:15:03,400 thing, in many ways for, for loss of habitat, lots of 293 00:15:03,409 --> 00:15:08,559 wildlife using that, wading birds and so forth. So we knew 294 00:15:08,570 --> 00:15:12,429 that for the restoration, we had to restore it back to a river. 295 00:15:12,440 --> 00:15:16,030 It had to have water flowing through it, but we also needed 296 00:15:16,039 --> 00:15:19,239 to to do it as sensitively as we can, so as not to just destroy 297 00:15:19,250 --> 00:15:23,539 this habitat. So what we did before we- we dredged the river 298 00:15:23,549 --> 00:15:26,640 out, we actually created two new wetland areas on the estate 299 00:15:26,650 --> 00:15:30,280 here. And those help to, to mitigate against the work we're 300 00:15:30,289 --> 00:15:34,210 doing. So we now have two really nice quiet wetland areas ideal 301 00:15:34,219 --> 00:15:35,190 for wading birds. 302 00:15:35,520 --> 00:15:37,549 ALAN POWER: But it's amazing, isn't it? In, in your role? You 303 00:15:37,559 --> 00:15:39,229 must see it because you're really close to it. But the 304 00:15:39,239 --> 00:15:42,809 minute you add that water element to a garden, you- all of 305 00:15:42,820 --> 00:15:45,090 a sudden the diversity of insects, bird life, it 306 00:15:45,099 --> 00:15:46,770 completely changes, doesn't it? 307 00:15:46,969 --> 00:15:49,260 HUGH WARWICK: Yeah, we have monitoring programs here. So we 308 00:15:49,270 --> 00:15:53,010 have volunteers who are trained to monitor and my assistant 309 00:15:53,020 --> 00:15:55,809 ranger has just recently been doing some water quality 310 00:15:55,820 --> 00:15:59,619 testing. You've got somewhere there that the larvae can grow 311 00:15:59,630 --> 00:16:02,960 and, and then that goes to- obviously you get the insects 312 00:16:02,969 --> 00:16:04,940 then and then that feeds the birds and the bats and the 313 00:16:04,950 --> 00:16:05,570 wildlife. 314 00:16:06,590 --> 00:16:09,250 ALAN POWER: So we're leaving the dry arch bridge behind and in 315 00:16:09,260 --> 00:16:11,809 complete contrast to the enclosure of that bridge, we've 316 00:16:11,820 --> 00:16:16,250 just come out and there is this magnificent view. I can see two 317 00:16:16,260 --> 00:16:16,929 bridges. 318 00:16:16,940 --> 00:16:19,530 I can see what looks like an island but in true Brown 319 00:16:19,539 --> 00:16:22,140 fashion, I don't know whether it's an island until I get 320 00:16:22,150 --> 00:16:24,039 further around the pathways because it's still full of 321 00:16:24,049 --> 00:16:25,489 mystery. Although it's a big view. 322 00:16:25,960 --> 00:16:29,580 Do you have any winter migratory birds that come in and make use 323 00:16:29,590 --> 00:16:30,979 of this wonderful pond? 324 00:16:30,989 --> 00:16:33,049 HUGH WARWICK: Well, we have had an Osprey passing through, 325 00:16:33,059 --> 00:16:36,500 believe it or not. Yeah, we've also had Hawfinches here. We 326 00:16:36,510 --> 00:16:38,609 have Fieldfare and Redwings. 327 00:16:38,840 --> 00:16:41,739 So, yeah, we get quite a few migratory species passing 328 00:16:41,750 --> 00:16:44,559 through and I think we've become a bit of a kind of a local haven 329 00:16:44,570 --> 00:16:48,520 for wildlife because we're a nice green space. There's, 330 00:16:48,559 --> 00:16:51,390 there's the wild flower meadows and so forth and as you say, the 331 00:16:51,400 --> 00:16:53,760 body of water and all the insects that that provides. 332 00:16:53,960 --> 00:16:54,989 ALAN POWER: Well, Hugh, thanks a million. 333 00:16:55,469 --> 00:16:56,090 HUGH WARWICK: My pleasure. 334 00:16:59,619 --> 00:17:01,750 ALAN POWER: It's been a wonderful day at Croome today 335 00:17:02,169 --> 00:17:04,969 and I'm finishing my day in one of the most stunning views I've 336 00:17:04,979 --> 00:17:08,030 captured all day, standing at the rotunda, looking out over a 337 00:17:08,040 --> 00:17:11,650 glorious landscape with the river flowing in the distance. 338 00:17:12,510 --> 00:17:15,670 One of the people who is very close to Croome is with me now, 339 00:17:15,680 --> 00:17:19,369 Malcolm Walford, who has spent his life working and living on 340 00:17:19,380 --> 00:17:22,589 the estate at Croome for the last 68 years. 341 00:17:22,660 --> 00:17:23,469 MALCOM WALFORD: Good afternoon. 342 00:17:23,479 --> 00:17:26,040 ALAN POWER: Malcolm. It's a pleasure to meet you. You've got 343 00:17:26,050 --> 00:17:27,589 quite a CV a Croome, haven't you? 344 00:17:27,589 --> 00:17:32,959 MALCOM WALFORD: Yes I have. I started in 1953 after five years 345 00:17:32,969 --> 00:17:33,560 at RAF Defford. 346 00:17:34,410 --> 00:17:37,650 Still semi employed by the Croome estate trustees. 347 00:17:38,589 --> 00:17:43,420 My job still entails me to be clerk of works. That was my 348 00:17:43,430 --> 00:17:45,660 position since 1986. 349 00:17:45,949 --> 00:17:49,060 ALAN POWER: It's not just you is it? Your family's worked- 350 00:17:49,229 --> 00:17:51,650 MALCOM WALFORD: My grandparents have been on the estate since 351 00:17:51,660 --> 00:17:52,619 the 1800s. 352 00:17:53,479 --> 00:17:58,359 My father was, when he left school at 13. He went as second 353 00:17:58,369 --> 00:18:03,050 groom at Pirton Court, which is all part of the Coventry family. 354 00:18:04,280 --> 00:18:08,109 And my uncle Ern, was head groom and my Uncle Bob was head 355 00:18:08,119 --> 00:18:09,310 forester on the estate. 356 00:18:10,439 --> 00:18:13,650 ALAN POWER: So we, we're standing by a spectacular view 357 00:18:13,660 --> 00:18:14,819 out into the countryside. 358 00:18:15,680 --> 00:18:18,719 And what's striking me, Malcolm is that it's really your home, 359 00:18:18,729 --> 00:18:19,219 isn't it? 360 00:18:19,229 --> 00:18:20,040 MALCOM WALFORD: It is my home. 361 00:18:20,040 --> 00:18:23,489 Yeah, it is my home and when it comes to flood, fire or 362 00:18:23,500 --> 00:18:26,479 whatever, I've always been there for Croome and that's been part 363 00:18:26,489 --> 00:18:27,140 of my job. 364 00:18:27,260 --> 00:18:29,479 ALAN POWER: You obviously feel it's really important to kind of 365 00:18:29,489 --> 00:18:31,780 preserve and conserve Croome for the future- 366 00:18:31,780 --> 00:18:34,750 MALCOM WALFORD: It's got to be! You know, it's got to be 367 00:18:34,760 --> 00:18:39,420 preserved. What better place in Worcestershire is? You've got 368 00:18:39,430 --> 00:18:43,390 stood here looking at Croome River. Where hours and hours 369 00:18:43,400 --> 00:18:46,849 we've, we've gone to the end of the river when all the grounds 370 00:18:46,859 --> 00:18:50,400 here were ploughed up. You know, it's not always been grassland 371 00:18:50,410 --> 00:18:50,540 here. 372 00:18:50,550 --> 00:18:53,359 This was plowed up in the sixties and in front of the 373 00:18:53,369 --> 00:18:56,829 church. And it was part of our job when the farmer complained 374 00:18:56,839 --> 00:19:01,770 the river was too high. We used to take the old van, the A35 375 00:19:01,780 --> 00:19:05,130 Austin van down to the other end of the river and change what we 376 00:19:05,140 --> 00:19:06,569 call the flood board out. 377 00:19:06,920 --> 00:19:08,250 ALAN POWER: Sounds a bit like my job. 378 00:19:09,489 --> 00:19:12,160 You know, I do bits of that at Stourhead. We have a dam we look 379 00:19:12,170 --> 00:19:16,089 after and there's Saturdays, Sundays, evenings, mornings that 380 00:19:16,099 --> 00:19:18,619 I'm out to check the levels. And you know what I love about 381 00:19:18,630 --> 00:19:21,540 working in historic environments is that there are some jobs that 382 00:19:21,550 --> 00:19:22,500 can never change. 383 00:19:22,829 --> 00:19:25,839 It's so it's so important, isn't it? To kind of capture memories 384 00:19:25,849 --> 00:19:30,069 and capture scenes and to share it and hand it on to the next 385 00:19:30,079 --> 00:19:30,719 generation- 386 00:19:30,729 --> 00:19:32,119 MALCOM WALFORD: Some wonderful here at Croome. 387 00:19:32,900 --> 00:19:36,800 But hopefully, I've, I've passed on a lot of information like I 388 00:19:36,810 --> 00:19:40,010 keep finding photographs for Katherine and one thing or 389 00:19:40,020 --> 00:19:40,469 another. 390 00:19:40,479 --> 00:19:44,339 ALAN POWER: So and tell, tell me you mentioned you, it's 68 years 391 00:19:44,349 --> 00:19:46,969 in total, but five years of that was spent with the RAF. 392 00:19:48,329 --> 00:19:52,310 And how did your transition from the RAF onto the estate happen? 393 00:19:52,310 --> 00:19:53,189 MALCOM WALFORD: In a pub. 394 00:19:53,189 --> 00:19:55,353 ALAN POWER: In a pub? Best place for everything to happen isn't 395 00:19:55,353 --> 00:19:55,589 it- 396 00:19:55,589 --> 00:19:58,709 MALCOM WALFORD: And my Uncle Bob came in one night because we'd 397 00:19:58,719 --> 00:20:02,420 already been informed, Defford was closing and my Uncle Bob 398 00:20:02,430 --> 00:20:05,489 come in there and the pub one night and we was talking and he 399 00:20:05,500 --> 00:20:10,229 said there's a labourer job going at Croome. And I wrote a 400 00:20:10,239 --> 00:20:14,339 letter and it went to Colonel Osbert Smith who was grandson of 401 00:20:14,349 --> 00:20:17,040 the ninth Earl. And he said, are you going to be strong enough 402 00:20:17,050 --> 00:20:17,770 for this job? 403 00:20:19,589 --> 00:20:23,489 And the first day I started, I went home on the lunchtime and I 404 00:20:23,500 --> 00:20:28,650 said to my dad, I'm finishing tonight and I thought I can't do 405 00:20:28,660 --> 00:20:29,130 with this. 406 00:20:29,979 --> 00:20:32,359 He said you stick it and I did 407 00:20:33,209 --> 00:20:35,709 ALAN POWER: And 63 years later- 408 00:20:36,430 --> 00:20:38,910 MALCOM WALFORD: Have been over Croome River on a lovely night 409 00:20:39,000 --> 00:20:40,420 ALAN POWER: And you're still in love with the place? 410 00:20:40,520 --> 00:20:42,530 MALCOM WALFORD: Of course, I am. I always will be 411 00:20:42,540 --> 00:20:43,829 ALAN POWER: Malcolm. It's been a pleasure. 412 00:20:43,839 --> 00:20:44,910 MALCOM WALFORD: Thank you very much indeed. 413 00:20:48,550 --> 00:20:50,290 ALAN POWER: Thank you for listening to the National Trust 414 00:20:50,300 --> 00:20:53,420 Gardens podcast. If you've enjoyed this podcast, you can 415 00:20:53,430 --> 00:20:56,939 subscribe or follow on your podcast app for more. 416 00:20:56,939 --> 00:21:00,410 Next month, I'll be at another great garden for festive magic 417 00:21:00,420 --> 00:21:04,170 at Sissinghurst in Kent. So stay warm and enjoy exploring and 418 00:21:04,180 --> 00:21:05,040 we'll see you next time. 419 00:21:16,959 --> 00:21:19,260 BETTANY HUGHES: I'm Bettany Hughes. I've been visiting 420 00:21:19,270 --> 00:21:22,829 National Trust Properties all my life, but in this series of 421 00:21:22,839 --> 00:21:27,630 podcasts, I'm going beyond the delights of teas and topiary to 422 00:21:27,640 --> 00:21:31,199 reveal the surprising European roots of some of the most 423 00:21:31,209 --> 00:21:32,859 splendid sites in England. 424 00:21:33,729 --> 00:21:37,314 You can subscribe to my series by searching for Bettany 425 00:21:37,314 --> 00:21:42,439 Hughes's 10 places, Europe and us. On your podcast app.