1 00:00:15,470 --> 00:00:18,520 JAMES GRASBY: Hello and welcome to the National Trust podcast. 2 00:00:19,610 --> 00:00:22,639 In the last episode, we travelled to Bexley Heath to Red 3 00:00:22,649 --> 00:00:25,739 House. Once the home to the famous designer William Morris. 4 00:00:25,840 --> 00:00:29,520 In this mini episode, we'll be discovering the secret creations 5 00:00:29,530 --> 00:00:30,049 hidden there. 6 00:00:40,919 --> 00:00:43,110 ROBYNN FINNEY: I am Robynn Finney and I am the House and 7 00:00:43,119 --> 00:00:45,180 Gardens Manager at the National Trust, Red House. 8 00:00:46,869 --> 00:00:50,810 So we are currently standing in William and Jane Morris's 9 00:00:50,819 --> 00:00:52,810 bedroom at Red House. 10 00:00:55,139 --> 00:00:59,250 JAMES GRASBY: Oh my word, this is extraordinary. I mean, I feel 11 00:00:59,259 --> 00:01:02,759 like I've walked in to the corner of a medieval chapel in a 12 00:01:02,770 --> 00:01:05,050 parish church somewhere in, in England. 13 00:01:06,949 --> 00:01:12,470 What is this? It's some medieval fakery, tomfoolery and fun. What 14 00:01:12,480 --> 00:01:12,849 is it? 15 00:01:12,860 --> 00:01:14,809 ROBYNN FINNEY: Well, in a way all of the decoration in the 16 00:01:14,819 --> 00:01:18,190 house is to some extent medieval fakery. But yeah you would be 17 00:01:18,199 --> 00:01:22,250 definitely right to put a church analogy on this. 18 00:01:23,750 --> 00:01:27,209 We are looking at a very exciting discovery that was 19 00:01:27,220 --> 00:01:33,699 discovered in 2013 behind a wardrobe. 20 00:01:33,699 --> 00:01:37,360 In this room there had always been a wardrobe covering this 21 00:01:37,370 --> 00:01:39,319 wall, 1950s wardrobe. 22 00:01:41,120 --> 00:01:45,519 What you could see behind one of the shelves were one figure. So 23 00:01:45,529 --> 00:01:47,300 there was definitely one figure there. 24 00:01:51,519 --> 00:01:54,819 So we thought we remove the wardrobe. We'll take this 25 00:01:54,830 --> 00:01:57,250 opportunity to do some investigation thinking that we 26 00:01:57,260 --> 00:01:59,930 would just be uncovering it and finding one figure. 27 00:02:03,739 --> 00:02:05,879 And the conservators worked through January and February 28 00:02:05,889 --> 00:02:08,839 because that's when we're closed, it's absolutely freezing 29 00:02:08,850 --> 00:02:10,929 in this house, painstaking work. 30 00:02:14,860 --> 00:02:19,360 What we found as the work went on, figure after figure. 31 00:02:22,880 --> 00:02:25,889 So we've ended up with five figures on this wall. 32 00:02:28,720 --> 00:02:31,910 But at this point, you have got big blobs of poly filler in it. 33 00:02:31,919 --> 00:02:33,820 You've got wallpaper still coming up. 34 00:02:34,029 --> 00:02:37,750 We found this text at the bottom of it. And I mean, you try and 35 00:02:37,759 --> 00:02:40,509 read it now, I'm sure you can't read what it says. 36 00:02:40,899 --> 00:02:44,729 But you know, this is kind of social media in action and how 37 00:02:44,740 --> 00:02:47,350 our visitors and supporters really feed into our knowledge. 38 00:02:47,360 --> 00:02:50,820 Former House Manager James Breslin, took a photo of the 39 00:02:50,830 --> 00:02:51,429 text. 40 00:02:52,389 --> 00:02:56,240 He put it on social media. Overnight somebody from America 41 00:02:56,250 --> 00:02:58,919 had got back and said that's from Genesis. 42 00:02:59,339 --> 00:03:01,970 So obviously, our curatorial team then looked into it. 43 00:03:02,020 --> 00:03:03,070 Absolutely right. 44 00:03:03,080 --> 00:03:10,460 And suddenly it all made sense. So we are looking at the story 45 00:03:10,470 --> 00:03:19,130 of Genesis painted on the wall of William and Jane's bedroom. " 46 00:03:19,130 --> 00:03:22,199 GENERIC: Now, the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild 47 00:03:22,210 --> 00:03:26,750 animals the Lord God had made. He said to the woman, did God 48 00:03:26,759 --> 00:03:31,479 really say you must not eat from any tree in the garden? We may 49 00:03:31,490 --> 00:03:35,490 eat fruit from the trees in the garden. But God did say, you 50 00:03:35,500 --> 00:03:38,509 must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the 51 00:03:38,520 --> 00:03:41,169 garden and you must not touch it." 52 00:03:41,169 --> 00:03:44,660 ROBYNN FINNEY: So from left to right, you have got Adam, you 53 00:03:44,669 --> 00:03:48,210 have got a tree with a serpent around it and you have Eve 54 00:03:48,220 --> 00:03:50,580 recoiling from the serpent. 55 00:03:50,899 --> 00:03:56,070 You then have a man holding an ark in the middle, Noah, Rachel 56 00:03:56,240 --> 00:03:56,970 and Jacob. 57 00:03:56,979 --> 00:03:59,589 And can you just see his little ladder coming up in the corner 58 00:03:59,600 --> 00:04:03,350 there? So suddenly it makes sense! It's Genesis! Yes, you're 59 00:04:03,360 --> 00:04:05,789 absolutely right. And then we could understand the wall 60 00:04:05,800 --> 00:04:07,339 painting a lot better. " 61 00:04:07,339 --> 00:04:11,320 GENERIC: She took some and ate it. She also gave some to her 62 00:04:11,330 --> 00:04:16,399 husband who was with her and he ate it. Then the eyes of both of 63 00:04:16,410 --> 00:04:20,959 them were opened and they realized they were naked. So 64 00:04:20,970 --> 00:04:23,410 they sewed fig leaves together." 65 00:04:23,410 --> 00:04:26,220 ROBYNN FINNEY: It may not be the most obvious choice to have on 66 00:04:26,230 --> 00:04:28,390 the wall of your bedroom. But that is what we've got. 67 00:04:30,750 --> 00:04:33,910 But we'd always been kind of why Genesis? Why Genesis in your 68 00:04:33,920 --> 00:04:34,480 bedroom? 69 00:04:35,579 --> 00:04:38,359 So the brand new piece of research that has helped us 70 00:04:38,369 --> 00:04:42,510 piece together why we have Genesis in the bedroom is our 71 00:04:42,519 --> 00:04:46,100 curator Tessa Wild has discovered in an Arthurian story 72 00:04:46,109 --> 00:04:49,989 of Sir Degrevant that a very in depth description of his 73 00:04:50,000 --> 00:04:58,420 bedroom. " 74 00:04:58,420 --> 00:05:00,579 GENERIC: Her bed was of azure, 75 00:05:00,579 --> 00:05:01,720 With tester and celure, 76 00:05:02,850 --> 00:05:04,600 With a bright bordure 77 00:05:04,600 --> 00:05:06,839 Compassed full clean 78 00:05:07,570 --> 00:05:10,570 And all a story, as it was, 79 00:05:10,570 --> 00:05:13,416 Of Yodyne and Amadus; 80 00:05:13,416 --> 00:05:16,220 Perrye in ilka place, 81 00:05:16,570 --> 00:05:19,179 And poppinjays of green. 82 00:05:19,179 --> 00:05:21,559 The scutcheons of many a knight, 83 00:05:21,790 --> 00:05:25,069 Of gold and Cyprus was in dight; 84 00:05:25,069 --> 00:05:28,820 Broad Bezants and bright, 85 00:05:28,820 --> 00:05:35,619 And true -loves between. " 86 00:05:35,619 --> 00:05:39,579 ROBYNN FINNEY: And inside Sir Degrevant's Bedroom is a hanging 87 00:05:40,059 --> 00:05:42,679 with the characters from Genesis on it. 88 00:05:45,890 --> 00:05:49,480 So the thinking now is that the idea and the decoration of the 89 00:05:49,489 --> 00:05:52,350 bedroom was that you were actually stepping into a scene 90 00:05:52,510 --> 00:05:55,869 from Sir Degrevant and from an Arthurian legend. 91 00:06:03,570 --> 00:06:08,309 You have areas where the the figures stop quite briefly or 92 00:06:08,320 --> 00:06:10,179 where a tree looks very skinny. 93 00:06:10,440 --> 00:06:14,200 It's designed to look like draping fabric. So the fabric 94 00:06:14,209 --> 00:06:17,350 goes up and then it would have been pinned up and pinned. 95 00:06:17,359 --> 00:06:20,790 So you will see folds in the fabric where the the people or 96 00:06:20,799 --> 00:06:22,480 the trees kind of fold inwards. 97 00:06:23,239 --> 00:06:26,869 It's had wallpaper on it, it has had poly filler in it. It has 98 00:06:26,880 --> 00:06:28,299 had a wardrobe in front of it. 99 00:06:28,309 --> 00:06:32,359 So we can't read those lines and that fluidity in the fabric as 100 00:06:32,369 --> 00:06:33,320 they would have then. 101 00:06:33,329 --> 00:06:36,429 But- so everything's reversible. It was then touched up with 102 00:06:36,440 --> 00:06:38,980 watercolour, which is why we have this room blacked out just 103 00:06:38,989 --> 00:06:42,140 to help visitors be able to read it slightly better because it 104 00:06:42,149 --> 00:06:43,500 had been so damaged. 105 00:06:58,239 --> 00:07:00,320 JAMES GRASBY: Thanks for listening to this mini episode 106 00:07:00,329 --> 00:07:01,910 of the National Trust podcast. 107 00:07:04,730 --> 00:07:07,369 If you've been enjoying the series so far, please give us a 108 00:07:07,380 --> 00:07:11,609 rating or a review on Apple podcasts. 109 00:07:11,609 --> 00:07:14,709 And don't forget to subscribe to the series to hear next month's 110 00:07:14,720 --> 00:07:18,290 episode where Alan Power will be your guide through the peaceful, 111 00:07:18,299 --> 00:07:21,630 exotic and playful garden of Glendurgan in Cornwall. 112 00:07:24,209 --> 00:07:27,459 Until then from me, James Grasby. Goodbye.