Destination Marketing Podcast Episode 26: Jess Darrington
Jess: I'm a firm believer in organic social media instead of just boosting posts or paid promotions. Because the purpose of organic social media, one of the major purposes, is to create communication with your audience. If you're just paying for ads, it doesn't really create that authentic dialogue that you need between a destination and the potential visitors. Adam: 00:20 Welcome once again, everybody, to the Destination Marketing Podcast. I'm your host, Adam Stoker. Another great guest to bring to you guys today. Really excited to chat. We've talked about a lot of digital tools. We recently had an episode that was all about PR. We've talked branding. We've talked about a lot of different stuff. One thing that we've probably neglected to this point is social media. Social media is critical. Especially when marketing a destination, it's an opportunity to do so much to help people understand what your destination has to offer. Our guest today is going to help us complete the education that we've neglected so far in our podcast and in our education for everyone. Really excited to bring that to you today. Before we introduce our guest, one thing I want to remind everybody is how critical reviews are for any podcast to help it get higher and higher in the ratings. Anything you can do, any reviews you can leave, if you're getting value from the show, which we believe people are because our listener base grows every week. We're now getting thousands of listeners, so please, if you're enjoying the podcast, leave a review. You'll help us grow and continue to get a larger and larger listener base. Today our guest is someone who I met a couple of months ago and I'm really excited to introduce to you today. It's Jess Darrington. Jess, welcome to the show. Jess: Thank you so much for having me. I'm excited to be here today. Adam: Well, we're excited to have you. We've got a lot to talk about today, and we're going to cover kind of a wide range of things. Are you ready? Jess: Yes, I am so ready to talk about all that we have today. Adam: Good. Well, first, before we dive in, we have a couple of questions that we ask everyone that comes on the show. You're going to be an interesting response and we'll get into this, but you're actually considered a social media influencer, which means you probably get to travel more than a lot of the guests that we've brought on the show. Before we talk about where you've been, first we want to know, is there anywhere left that you haven't been, maybe a dream destination? If you could go anywhere in the world, where would it be? Jess: 02:32 There are so many places that I have yet to travel to. I think the top on my list is I would love to take my husband back to Peru and visit Machu Picchu. I lived in Peru for about a year or so, and I never made it down south. I was in Lima the entire time. I would love the opportunity to go down south to Cusco and visit Machu Picchu. That's definitely one of the top dream destinations that I have on the list. Adam: Okay. And what's stopped you so far from going back? Time, money? What's the barrier? Jess: Time. My schedule is very flexible, I can travel as frequent or as little as I want. However, my husband's schedule, he has taken more of the business route and is a healthcare administrator. His schedule is a little bit more limiting than mine, and because I want to bring him back, I'm working around that. Adam: Got it, waiting for that big vacation time to kick in so you can take him down there. Jess: Exactly, yep. Adam: Okay. You’ve been all over the place but tell me some of your favorite places that you've ever been. Jess: 03:40 Oh my goodness. Well, because of what I do, I'm able to visit some smaller destinations that many people don't even know about or realize because they're hitting more of the tourist spots. Some of the US destinations that I've really enjoyed is Kanab, Utah. It's a small southern Utah town. Absolutely fell in love with it. Charleston is pretty well-known, but there's parts to it that are really quite charming and then- Adam: Okay. I'm going to stop you there, Jess. Jess: Yes. Adam: I watched as you went through Charleston, and my wife and I actually earlier this year went to Charleston as well. Jess: Oh, awesome. Adam: And we fell in love with Charleston. It was a great place and we had a lot of fun there. It was fun to watch you go through it again after having experienced it myself. Jess: Oh my goodness. Yeah, it's incredible, just like you said, and it's one of those places where you can visit once, but you have to go back a second time. It's not just one of those one and done destination spots. There's so much to do. That's definitely on the list of my favorite places that I visited. Also, have you ever made it up to the Finger Lakes region in upstate New York? Adam: I haven't. Jess: Okay. I feel like you and your wife would love that spot, too. It's kind of smaller towns, low key vibes, but definitely enjoyable. Then the last one that I have on my list here is Stanley, Idaho. It's this small town. Adam: Stanley, Idaho, huh? Jess: 05:11 Yes. It's this small town in the middle of Idaho. I am an avid hot spring hunter. I love natural hot springs, and Stanley is the mecca destination for those. Adam: Really? Jess: If you're ever wanting a chance to kick back, be in nature and just soak in natural hot springs without a ton of people, that would be the destination to go to. Adam: Okay. Is this the one that I've seen? Because I actually follow the state of Idaho social media channels, and it's the one where the river is running down and there's this little pool just on the side of the river, so you're actually sitting in the hot spring right next to the cold river. Jess: I am sure that's one of them. They have about, Within Stanley, I've been to at least 10 of those hot spring spots right along the river. Adam: Oh wow. Jess: That's why it's so nice. Everybody has space. If somebody is in that specific hot spot pool, you can go downstream a little bit and find another one. Adam: Well, everybody's biggest concern when thinking, "Hey, I'd like to go check out some hot spring," is, "Is there going to be a bunch of nudists there?" Has that been a concern for you as you've gone to these? Jess: 06:17 We always encounter those people, but they're usually, honestly, really respectful and there's always been enough space. The good thing about them is they usually come super late at night or really, really early in the morning, and then they usually take off when the crowds start coming. It hasn't been too big of an issue. Adam: You get there and you just hope they stay under the water. Jess: Exactly, or we just turn around when they get out. Adam: Perfect. Well, that's fun. I've been to Lava Hot Springs, but that's probably the only hot springs that I've been to, and that's also in Idaho. I'll have to put Stanley on my list. Jess: Oh yeah, for sure. Adam: Okay. I'm going to go back to Charleston. You've been to Charleston. Have you been to Savannah, Georgia? Jess: We did not go. It was only about, what, a two-hour drive, but we never made it down. Were you able to make it there? Adam: Jess, I'm telling you, you would love Savannah, Georgia. We did Savannah and Charleston and we loved them both individually, right? But if we had to pick one, Savannah would definitely be our favorite. Jess: Really? Adam: In my opinion, if you love Charleston, you will absolutely love Savannah. Jess: That is good to know. I'm working on my travel schedule for 2020 right now, I'm going to have to include that on my list of destinations. Adam: 07:40 Oh, I will give you the best meal you've ever had in your life, okay? When you get to planning your trip, that's one of the things that I'll give you. I've never had a better meal than I did at Mrs. Wilkes in Savannah, downtown Savannah. They've been doing it since, I think, it's over 100 years that, that restaurant has been in place, and it is unreal. When you get to planning your trip, let's take an hour, and I'm just going to go through all the different cool stuff that we did. Jess: That sounds amazing. I will definitely take you up on that offer. Adam: Great. Well, we spent some good amount of time talking travel and where you've been and where you'd like to go. I'd love to hear a little bit, and have our audience hear a little bit, about you and your background. Then if people want to follow you, also your social media handle, especially on Instagram where I see most of your activity. Jess: 08:31 Exactly. Yeah. The way that I got to where I am now is very random. I actually graduated from a school in Idaho as a Spanish teacher. I got my degree; I was ready to start teaching Spanish and I actually accepted a position in a school in Utah. But then my husband decided to go back to grad school. We found that by working for the University of Utah, your spouse would get half tuition. We weighed the benefits of that, so I actually took a position at the University of Utah for the last couple of years that way my husband could get that half tuition, we could save some money and we could spend some more time together. During that time, my schedule was flexible, and I had a lot of time to travel. My husband and I took our first big European trip after we were recently married and that is when the travel bug bit us hard. After we got home, I started looking more into travel blogging because I had seen a couple people do it and I was so curious of how they were traveling so much. How they were traveling for free and especially how they were making money while they were traveling. So, I dived into all of that and then got started with travel blogging and travel influencing. Shortly after that, I found out that I absolutely loved social media. I loved the backend, I loved the algorithms, I loved everything that social media had to offer. I actually got certified online to be a social media manager, and I started down that route. And here I am today doing social media influencing within the travel industry, but I'm also a social media manager and Pinterest strategist for some clients that I manage. Adam: And your handle for everybody? Jess: Oh yes. You can find me on Instagram as @parttimetourist, and then you can find me online as well at www.parttimetourist.com, and then on all the other social media platforms as well, @parttimetourist. Adam: Perfect. If you're at your desk listening right now, go check out her Instagram handle, and also Jess' website. There's some really cool stuff there. You can see some of her travels, and also some of the destinations that she's been working with over the last couple of years. I know that it was kind of fun for me to go back and look through all of that. Jess: Yes, thank you. Adam: 10:55 Okay, Jess, I want to tell everybody how we met because I think it's actually really an interesting story. First of all, we work with several destinations. One of the things that we try to do is find influencers that are not so expensive that you have to have a giant budget to work with them, right? Also, small enough to where they're easy to work with. We've tried and failed, and we've tried and succeeded with several influencers. We really enjoyed working with you on a couple of projects and having you look at a couple of our destinations. It opened the door for us to start a relationship there. Then, I was tasked, and I talked a little bit about this on a recent episode, that I was tasked with putting together what we called a tactical marketing track at the Utah Tourism Conference. I was looking for an influencer that could be a good person to come in and talk about either working with influencers for destinations or several digital tools or social media tools that will make your social media content better as a destination. We reached out to you and said, "Hey, we'd love to have you come in and present on some social tools that would benefit destinations," and you came in and you presented, gave a great presentation and to the point where I, at the end, walked up to you and said, "Okay, Jess, what's it going to take for you to manage the social media accounts for our clients?" right? Jess: Exactly. Adam: Luckily you had a good answer, and you actually start November 1st managing the social media accounts for our clients, right? Jess: Yes. And I'm so excited about that. Adam: As are we, and excited to have our clients see the impact of your experience in managing the organic social media for our clients. We're excited to work with you, Jess. Jess: Well, thank you. Yeah, I am very excited to take on more clients. You have a lot of clients within the travel and tourism industry, and because that is my specialty, I'm really excited to start working with them, as well. Adam: Awesome. Well, talk to us a little bit about — You gave us the, how you became a social media influencer. How did that go from you blogging and writing about destinations to now destinations are paying you to come in and share your experiences within the destination? Jess: 13:36 Yep. Just like any other influencer, you start small. You start with a passion that you have, and you start writing about it. You start sharing about it on social media, and then if you're doing a good enough job, you'll start getting those followers and that organic reach. Once you've been able to prove yourself valuable within that industry or that niche that you're trying to exploit, that's when travel destinations really start looking at you and start hiring you to come to their travel destination, like you said, and show off what they provide there to your audience and to the people that you reach. It doesn't happen overnight. Adam: Yeah. I was going to ask you how long did that take? Jess: For the first year that I was doing it, I did not get paid. I was able to work with a few brands and companies and we just traded services, but there was no talk of pay just because it does take time to build an organic reach. Once the second year kicked in, that's when things really started moving and picking up traction. That's when I really started to dive into this travel blogging industry and social media influencer marketing, and that's when I was able to start getting paid to actually go to destinations. Adam: Great. As you did that, what did you learn? I know that you've been on the other side of the table, right? You're the influencer, but what do destinations need to know as they're exploring working with a social media influencer? Jess: 15:18 Exactly. I mean, I'm kind of in a unique position because I am a social media influencer, but I also work for my clients on finding social media influencers for their company or their brands. I've been on both sides of the table, so I kind of know what to look for now. The first thing that I always recommend to my clients, and also to destinations that are listening, is you need to find an influencer that is relevant to your brand or to your destination. The influencer needs to have an audience that aligns with your target market. For example, if your target market is people based in the United States, you probably don't want to hire an influencer to come that is from Australia and has an Australia target market. It wouldn't align, and you wouldn't get the traction that you need. That's my very first tip, make sure your influencer that you're hiring, or thinking about hiring, is relevant to your destination. Adam: Okay. I have a follow-up question there. There's a lot of influencers out there and there's a lot of people that buy followers or there are people that kind of cheat the system a little bit. Jess: Oh yes, yes. Adam: And there are also people that just don't know who their followers are. They know they have a lot of them, but they're not sure. So how do we know that an influencer knows their audience, is dialed in to their audience and that it matches your target persona? Jess: Exactly, and this would be my one tip of working with influencers is if you ask the influencer that you're potentially going to work with who their audience is and if they can't give you an answer, I probably wouldn't hire them. The social media influencer that you hire needs to understand who is following them, and the influencer can do so in many ways. There are so many programs out there that can track your analytics of who is viewing your things, where they live, what are their ages, what are their demographics. Even on Pinterest, you can find what are their interests as well, along with travel. The social media influencer, if they are an effective one, they will know exactly who their audience is and who their followers really are. Adam: Are there tools out there that influencers are using to profile their audience or their follower base? And there may not be, but I'm just wondering if there's anything out there that you're aware of. Jess: 17:42 In apps already, for example, if you have a business Instagram account, they provide more analytics to you than just a regular personal Instagram account. Obviously, you need to be using that business analytics and insights on the Instagram app, on Facebook, on the Twitter. All of these platforms have those insights available for you to really see. Also, Google Analytics is really helpful. Pinterest Analytics is extremely helpful as well. I would say start with those and then later down the road, if you want to pay for services, you're welcome to, but you really can get a lot of knowledge just by using those in-app analytics. Adam: Okay, great. What are some of the dangers or gotchas that destinations need to watch out for when they're working with influencers? Jess: I think- Adam: It's kind of the wild, wild west, right? Jess: 18:34 It kind of is. It's so new, and some people have embraced it and have been using it for years, influencer marketing. However, there are some people that are just barely, barely stepping into the water because it is so new and there's a lot to learn. I think you kind of mentioned the top one is making sure you pick an influencer that is real. When I say that, I mean, that has not inflated their account with bots or likes, paying for likes and things like that. The main way that you can find out if people are doing that or not is check for their engagement rates. For example, if you find an influencer that has maybe 30,000 followers and maybe it's only getting 50 to 100 likes on each post, I would be skeptical if their engagement levels are true to what their followers are saying. Also, in addition to likes, you can check if they post videos, what are their views like, and their comments as well. Are people engaging with their stuff? Are they leaving notes? Are they asking questions? That's a good way to check engagement levels as well. Adam: Okay. Is there a specific metric out there of engagement rate that you want to watch out for or is it really just use a gut check and look at it and say, "Okay, compared to their followers, are they really getting engagement or does it look like fake traffic?" Jess: Yeah, there are so many websites out there that claim to provide true analytics and the problem is, I'm sure some of them are accurate, but because there are so many, it's hard to know which one to choose. I've always gone with my gut feeling. However, what I do suggest is, it always is just a trend. So, the more followers that influencers get, their engagement levels don't always match with that. For example, in the influencer industry, there are what we called macro influencers and there are also called micro influencers. Macro influencers are those that have above, I would say 25 to 30,000 followers. And the micro influencers are the ones that have anywhere from 5,000 to 25,000. I always recommend to brands, especially brands that don't have a large budget, to pick micro influencers because their budgets will align with them. Also, those micro influencers, they have a more specific and targeted niche and their audiences are usually more engaged. If I was a destination and I was looking for an influencer to come and help me, I would look for a micro influencer that has my target audience in mind and also has the niche that I'm looking for as well. Adam: So, if budget is the same, instead of working with a macro influencer, you would, instead work with several micro influencers. Is that right? Jess: Yep, that's what I would do. Adam: Awesome. Okay. Well, there's some good tips for our listeners when working with influencers. I know that you also have been running organic social media strategy for several companies across the country. How has being an influencer helped you understand social media strategy, especially organic social? Because I'll be honest with you. For a long time, organic social, people believed that there's just no way to get an ROI on it, right? And it was widely accepted that there's just no way to get an ROI on organic social. I feel like now, within influencer marketing and also with some of the more creative things that you can do with organic social, that paradigm has shifted. I just want to know if being an influencer has helped you see it that way. Jess: 22:33 Yes, 100%. I'm a firm believer in organic social media instead of just boosting posts or paid promotions. Because the purpose of organic social media, one of the major purposes is to create a communication with your audience. If you're just paying for ads, it doesn't really create that authentic dialogue that you need between a destination and the potential visitors. So, because I have been an influencer, I've been able to see both sides of the table. Social media is such a large percentage of what being an influencer entails. When you're immersed in it as a creator and not just a consumer, that's when you really start to learn the ins and outs of the game. I'm really blessed that I've been able to see both sides of the table and been able to work in it, as well as be an influencer. Adam: Awesome. And what mistakes do you see businesses or destinations making with their organic social? What are people doing wrong that maybe you could give them some advice on how to improve? Jess: I think the main thing that I see when I work with destinations, as a social media influencer, because before I go to a destination, I'm always looking at their recent posts to see what there is to do, what I can promote, and I think the biggest mistake is people come off as spammy and promotional. Instead of creating a conversation with future visitors by saying, "Hey, look at this really cool exhibit that we have or this awesome hike that you can do," it comes off as, just like I said, kind of spammy, promotional. "We want your business. Come visit. Spend your money, and then get out," really creating an authentic dialogue and communication is the number one tip that I would give to destinations. Adam: I have mixed feelings, but are you familiar with Gary Vaynerchuk? Jess: I am not. No. Who is he? Adam: 24:27 Okay. Gary Vaynerchuk is — I'm going to try to shorten this a little bit — but he's kind of this business guru who has become a major social media influencer and he is all in on social media. Look him up and you'll see that he has really made his money on the back of being a social media influencer. And because of that, his whole life and the only way to be successful according to him is social media influencers, right? But the reason that I bring him up is one of his overarching principles that he stresses to everyone is you've got to give content and not expect anything in return. You give content for the sake of creating good content and you hope that that leads to a return on investment. If you're constantly asking, He calls it jab, jab, jab, jab, jab, jab, jab, right hook, where it's like you give, give, give, give, give until someone really trusts and appreciates you and then you ask, right? From what you're saying, the way not to sound spammy, even though I have a little bit of mixed feelings, as you can tell, on Gary Vaynerchuk's philosophies, I do think that it goes right along with, "Hey, give great content and don't overtly just ask for something in return every time you give that," right? Jess: Exactly. I think that's great. I'm definitely going to start using that whole jab, jab, jab, right cross. I think that's great, is being able to provide your audience valuable content that will actually be useful for them instead of just asking for things in return. That really creates trust in the industry and trust with your audience as well, I think that's awesome. Adam: Very cool. Okay, now, we went back to your presentation at Utah Tourism Conference and how much I liked and appreciated it and was excited about it. You shared some unique tools and some tools that can make destinations' lives easier when managing their organic social media channels. I'd love to have you share a few of those tools with us today. We may even post a link to your presentation in the Destination Marketers LinkedIn page. But first I'd love to have you talk about a few of those, maybe not all of them, but give us your top three. Jess: 26:54 Okay, that sounds great. The tools that I'm going to highlight all deal with photography and videography, as well as how to get your content actually seen. We all know that a big part of social media is if your content is visually appealing. People respond better to a pretty picture than a not so pretty one. For destinations who may not be professional photographers or videographers, they may run into the problem of thinking, "How can I provide great content to my audience without being a professional, without having that background in that?" Here are some apps that I personally use, because I don't come from a background of photography or videography. These are things that I had to pick up along the way. Here are some apps that I would recommend using in order to be able to visually show off your destination without breaking the bank by hiring photographers each week to come and take pictures. Adam: Great. Jess: 27:56 The first one is obviously the in-phone camera app. If you have one of the newer smartphones it is amazing what they can do. I am so impressed with the features and the functions. However, most people don't know, there are a lot of built in, hidden, kind of somewhat secret things about the info on camera apps. There are programs out there and there are YouTube tutorials that teach you how to use the camera on your actual phone, instead of just pulling it out and clicking snap and taking the picture. There are a lot of settings that you can adjust to make it a visually appealing photo. That would be the first one that I would recommend mastering. The next one is when you get a little more advanced. I would look at the camera, it's called Camera+ 2. It's an app that you can purchase in the app store. Actually, I think it's free still, and it's a manual camera app. It gives you a little bit more control over the settings when you take a photo. The next part of social media is obviously the editing. Always, always make sure you stay true to your brand when you're editing photos, so it's not deceiving in any way, but it makes it a little bit more visually appealing. Two of those apps that I would recommend looking into are called Snapseed and the last one is called VSCO. Both of them, you're able to edit your photos. If it's really dark, you can fix the lighting. If the colors aren't popping as well, you can kind of bring out the colors a little bit more, so those would be the two apps that I would recommend when fixing photos. Adam: Can I stop you right there real quick? Jess: Of course. Adam: Okay. So, one of the things that you did at the conference is you talked about the importance of sizing of photos, especially if you're using Instagram, and since you're talking about editing photos, I thought maybe we'd throw that in. What is the size that everybody needs to make sure they're selecting so that the image is the best suited for Instagram? Jess: 29:51 For Instagram, landscape pictures, if they're horizontal, they don't perform as well as the vertical ones. The vertical ones at a four to five aspect ratio perform the best because they take up most of the space on the screen. Basically, you want your users to stop the scroll, right, so stop their thumb on your image and actually look at it. If your image is taking up more of the screen, users are more likely to do that. Make sure it's at a vertical perspective and at that four to five image ratio. Adam: Perfect. Thank you. Jess: Of course. So, moving on from photo tips, video tools. I am in no means a professional videographer. However, you don't need those long, well-done videos to create engaging content for your audience if they're traveling to your destination. There are a lot of video settings right in the Instagram app including Boomerang, Super Zoom, Focus. Even on the in-phone camera app. You can use slow-mo or you can use time lapse. You can also download apps such as Hyperlapse. These are all different video techniques that you do not need to be a professional videographer to use and to highlight your destination to your future visitors. Adam: Great. Well, that's good stuff. Hopefully our listeners have gotten their pens out and were able to write those down, but remember, I think we're going to post this presentation in the Destination Marketers LinkedIn page. In fact, can we just plan on that, Jess? Would you mind posting that in there? Jess: Yeah, I would love to. All the apps that I just talked about, they're listed on the slides so you can go back and reference them. Adam: Okay. Everybody put your pens down. It's okay. You can get that on the LinkedIn page. Jess: Exactly. Adam: Well, the last major topic that I want to talk about is, I know that you are a huge fan of Pinterest, and you talked a lot about Pinterest at the Utah Tourism Conference. Tell us why you love it. Tell us how it's under-utilized and tell us how destinations need to think about Pinterest with their social media strategy. Jess: 31:57 Yes, I am a big believer that every destination should have a Pinterest account. If you don't have a Pinterest account, I would highly recommend starting one. It doesn't have to be a major effort, but just starting one is the first step. The number one tip that I always tell my clients is if you treat Pinterest like a social media platform, you're doing it wrong. Pinterest is a visual search engine. It's basically a visual search, similar to Google, is what I always reference it for. The easiest way for destinations to integrate Pinterest into their social media strategy is simply adding either a blog or additional articles to their website that they already have, and they already own. And then from those websites, or I'm sorry, from those blog posts or those articles that they publish on their website, creating specific pins with interesting titles and a beautiful photo that they can pin directly to Pinterest with the link back to that article on their destination website. Pinterest is a major source of traffic, not only for me, but for most of my clients as well. So, if you are not using Pinterest, you're missing out on a large percentage of people that would like to visit your website and your destination and learn more about what you have to offer. Adam: How do you get started? Because I know that a lot of us have been looking at Pinterest like a social media channel, similar to Instagram, Twitter or Facebook. Tell me how to ease into it so that people don't feel overwhelmed trying to start. Jess: Exactly. What I would do, is most destinations that I've worked with and seen, they have several articles on their website, whether that is the best restaurants to visit or the top trails to check out. Each destination website should have those articles on their website. What I would do is at the bottom of those articles, create three pins minimum. I recommend anywhere from three to six pins. The best tool to create pins is Canva.com. It's free. It's amazing. They basically do it for you. You just plug in the picture and the text. Hands down recommend using Canva. Adam: Okay, spell Canva for me just so that we can make sure people get it correct. Jess: 34:28 Of course. Canva is C-A-N-V-A dot com. It's free to use. Log onto there, create three pins per article on your website. Put those in at the bottom of the article and then pin those directly to your Pinterest business profile account with the link back to your website. Make sure, obviously, just like any other platform, you want to put in a descriptive keyword-filled description on each pin that Pinterest is able to search and pull up in their results when people are looking for that destination. Adam: Perfect. Okay. Now, Jess, we've talked about a lot. We've covered a lot of things. Is there anything that I haven't asked you that you feel like would maybe benefit our listeners to hear? Jess: Maybe just a reiteration of the two major points. The first, Pinterest is a must, so if your destination hasn't started it, I would give it a go. There's a lot of how to articles out there. Look into starting a Pinterest account for your destination. The last one is if you've never tried influencer marketing, give it a shot. I think you would be surprised at how affordable it could be and how effective as well, by using micro influencers and have them and host them. Have them come out to your destination so they can show off their unique perspective of your area to their audience. Those are my last two-minute tips that I would encourage all destinations to implement and use while planning out their social media strategy. Adam: Yeah. I really appreciate the education on micro influencers versus macro influencers, because I think a lot of people fall in love with the number of followers, right? I think there's so much opportunity to dial it into your specific target persona by using a micro influencer, so that's great advice. Thank you. Jess: Yes, of course. Of course. Adam: Well, Jess, it's been great to have you on the show. Thank you so much for taking the time to join us today. Jess: Yes, thank you so much for having me. I know we covered a lot, but I will for sure post that article on the LinkedIn page that you're welcome to go back and check out, and if you have any questions, feel free to reach out to me. Adam: 36:40 Great. If you want access to that presentation, make sure to go join the Destination Marketers LinkedIn page or LinkedIn group, and you can find that presentation along with a lot of other valuable content that will help you become a better destination marketer. Thanks everybody for taking the time, and we'll talk to you next week.
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