Destination Marketing Podcast Episode 58: Rachel Brown
Rachel Brown: Patience right now is very valuable in a lot of ways. People are pretty stressed out, and it's good to be patient. Remember to take care of each other, take care of your community, and be understanding. Adam Stoker: 00:20 You guys, I have been working on something for the last six months that has been such a giant project, but I'm so proud of it. I'm excited to announce that I've just released my book — “Touchpoints: The Destination Marketer's Guide to Brand Evaluation and Enhancement.” It is a comprehensive guide for destinations to look at their brand, evaluate what you've done, and make a very clear, detailed plan of action on how to fix it. Look, I'm biased, right, because I wrote it, but I think it's so good. I think it's a great guide and I'm really, really happy with how it turned out. I wanted to tell you guys about it. It's available on Amazon. Search "Touchpoints by Adam Stoker" and you'll be able to get that book for your destination. I think it's going to be, especially for anyone that is trying to look at their brand holistically, a good book for you, so check it out.
Adam Stoker: Welcome everyone to another episode of the Destination Marketing Podcast. I'm your host, Adam Stoker. I'm excited to be with you today. We've got another great show. And yes, we're still talking about the Coronavirus, but that's okay, because with every crisis comes opportunity and we're hoping to help you navigate your way through this as you try to market your destinations and bring as many ideas and opportunities as possible. Today our guest is somebody that I'm excited to have on. I've been to her destination and it's a really beautiful place. So, I've got Rachel Brown. She's from Durango, Colorado. Rachel, welcome to the show. Rachel Brown: Yeah, thanks for having me, Adam. Adam Stoker: 01:59 Oh, we're thrilled to have you here. I actually just passed through your general area. Didn't get into Durango a week and a half ago, but I was driving from Tulsa back to Utah and man, Colorado is some of the prettiest country. Rachel Brown: Isn't it? Why didn't you come see us in Durango? Adam Stoker: I should have, but next time I will. Rachel Brown: Sounds good. Adam Stoker: You know, There's a place outside of Durango. It's quite a-ways outside of Durango, but it's a place called Monarch Pass. Are you familiar with Monarch Pass? Rachel Brown: I'm not actually. Adam Stoker: 02:34 Yeah. I used to drive that route with my parents. We lived in Alabama. We would go from Alabama to my dad's family in Idaho and we would stop at this place in Colorado called Monarch Pass where there's a ski resort called Monarch Mountain. At the very top, there was this little convenience store and we would go and get cereal in that convenience store ,and then we would feed chipmunks right outside of that little store and the chipmunks would walk down and they would eat the cereal out of our hands. I thought, man, I'm going to take my kids there. This will be amazing. It's a great memory from when I was a kid. And apparently shortly after my last trip there, the whole place burned down, and they've rebuilt it. They've put a new structure there. The chipmunks don't come down. So really, we just drove two hours out of the way to get some okay ice cream. Rachel Brown: And cereal. Adam Stoker: 03:29 And cereal. That's right. So, but it was fun to drive through there. But, you know what? We're not here to talk about Monarch Pass. We're here to talk about you. So, thanks for coming on the show. We have a little icebreaker question that we like to ask everyone that comes on. What's your dream destination, Rachel? It's a travel podcast. If you could go anywhere in the world, where would it be? Rachel Brown: 03:49 That is a hard question to answer, but I think based on my Pinterest activity, I would have to say Portugal is highest up on my list. Just looks very scenic. I've been to Spain and I love Spain. So, I imagine it's pretty similar. You know, the quaint waterfront towns, beautiful countryside, friendly people, but I'm going to cheat a little and also say I'd love to go to Antarctica because that would cross the last continent off my bucket list. Adam Stoker: Okay. I was going to say those are two very different destinations, Portugal and Antarctica. Rachel Brown: Yeah. I like variety in my travel destinations. Adam Stoker: So, you've been to every continent except Antarctica? Rachel Brown: Correct, yeah. Adam Stoker: You're very well-traveled. And Portugal, you haven't been to Portugal yet? Rachel Brown: I have not. Adam Stoker: So, tell me, is it somewhere you intend to go in the next few years or is it kind of still a distant dream? Rachel Brown: 04:53 I think it's pretty close. My last international trip was a couple of years ago, so I'm definitely overdue and I've already been priming a couple of my friends, sending them links. Why Portugal? It's so amazing. It's great to visit. So, I've kind of got them ready, I think, to come take a trip with me. So hopefully within the next year. Adam Stoker: 05:16 Awesome. Well, I'd love to hear how it goes. We've had a couple of people here on the show talk about Portugal and to be honest with you, it's never really been on my radar. I've had a lot of people talk to me about different places in Europe, London, Spain, Italy, haven't heard a lot of Portugal and lately I'm hearing more and more kind of chatter about that. It's sounds like an awesome place. Rachel Brown: Yeah. I guess it's trending upward. Adam Stoker: 05:41 That's right. Okay. Awesome. Well, I appreciate you sharing that with us. It helps us get to know you and I still want to dive into the Antarctica thing. Have you done much research on that? I mean, are there tours in Antarctica? What opportunity for travel is there? Rachel Brown: 05:59 Yeah, it's pretty limited. I did some research when I was in Argentina, because that's a good way to get to Antarctica by boat. A lot of people start from there and take a sturdy vessel down. I think you can fly there. I have a friend that actually worked there for a little while, but he was the scientist. I'm not in the science field obviously, so it would just have to be as a visitor, but it is quite expensive. So that's why I have not crossed it off my list yet, but hopefully someday, maybe I'll get to play with the penguins. Adam Stoker: There you go. Well, you'll have to come back and tell us about Antarctica once you've gotten a chance to go. Rachel Brown: I will. Sounds good. Adam Stoker: Great. And you're an avid listener of the podcast. When we talked before, you said that you've been listening for a while. How did you find the Destination Marketing podcast? Rachel Brown: 06:55 Yeah, this is one of my favorite podcasts, if not my favorite. I have been listening to podcasts since my first job out of college, actually. So that seems like a long time ago now, but I've always loved podcasts. Whether I was driving to work or public transportation, it's such a great way to pass the time. I'm also a curious person who loves to learn, so it's a nice passive way to absorb some knowledge. Only recently, did these tourism marketing podcasts start coming out. There were many years where I had looked and all I could find was people talking about travel, but not really the business of travel. I found you guys and then there's Destination On The Left and DMOU, so this one is definitely in my rotation. Adam Stoker: Awesome. Well, we appreciate you listening and coming on as a guest. Now you get both sides of it. Rachel Brown: Yeah, it was so great to get your email as an invitation because I was very familiar with the podcast. Adam Stoker: Awesome. Well, tell me a little bit about you, your background and how you got into tourism, Rachel. Rachel Brown: 08:09 I was sort of born into travel in a way. My grandparents owned a travel agency. Growing up, my parents were traveling with me from the time I was born — really before I remember. And of course, when I was younger, I didn't quite appreciate travel as much as I do now, but that's a common thing with kids is as they grow up, they appreciate it more. Then around, I would say high school age, I really fell in love with travel. After college, I did a trip around the world trip and I loved it so much that I went home and lived with my parents for a while to save money so I could go travel again. I went to South America for five months, so I am a self-proclaimed addict. Adam Stoker: Okay. Where did you go in South America? Rachel Brown: Oh, I went to Brazil, Chile, Argentina, Peru. I did the Inca trail. Oh my God, that will be the only time I do it. It was quite a challenge. Adam Stoker: Really? Rachel Brown: 09:18 Yeah. Then, as far as the marketing side, that came pretty naturally to me. I am, what I call, a right and left-brained person. So, I'm an artist and I have this creative side, but I'm also a data nerd and sometimes I dream in Excel. So marketing was really the perfect mix of imagination meets business. So, I worked at a tech startup. I did the ad agency thing and then really found my passion once I landed at Visit Oakland, which is the DMO for Oakland, California. It was the perfect mix of my love of travel and the marketing-minded activities. I was there for a little. While there, I went to visit Fisherman's Wharf, which was where I was last. That's in San Francisco and I was actually there for six and a half years. I loved it there. I decided, though, that I was visiting nature every weekend and I was like, "Well, why don't I live in nature and visit the city instead of the other way around?" I had been to Durango before. I knew I wanted to run a small to medium sized DMO and I found this job and remembered loving Durango, so I gave it a shot. After the hunger-games-like interview process, I passed the test somehow. I've actually been here since November. So, I'm still relatively new. Adam Stoker: I'm going to ask you to go deeper on the hunger-games-type interview process. I don't know that I've ever heard an interview process described that way. Rachel Brown: 11:08 I thought you might. So, they flew me out for a couple days. Prior to that, obviously there was a phone interview and a written project, and then I fly out and there's a reception for the five candidates. We're all in a room mingling with the tourism community. Then, the next day was a solid, I want to say, eight hours of panel after panel. It's what they call an assessment-center-type interview. A lot of governments use that type of model. The first part was the most interesting because they put the five of us up at the front of the room on stage while 40 people in the audience watched and we had to do a group project together while everyone watched. Adam Stoker: Oh my goodness. Okay. Rachel Brown: Needless to say, kind of awkward, but I will say it really does bring out people's true nature, that kind of situation. It shows their true colors. Adam Stoker: 12:17 That is fascinating. I think, we'd have to work pretty hard to find 40 people to sit in the audience, but it sure would be interesting to do all my interviews like that. Rachel Brown: It would bring out a different side of people, for sure. Adam Stoker: Well, that's really interesting. So, you went to Durango. Durango is in the Southern-most part of Colorado, right? Rachel Brown: Right. Southwest Colorado. Adam Stoker: Tell me a little bit about your destination. Rachel Brown: 12:47 Oh, well it's, as you mentioned earlier, absolutely beautiful. I call it a sweet spot because it's right at the border of beautiful snowy mountains, pine tree forest, and desert, so in the winter you can go skiing in the morning and mountain biking in the afternoon. It's an outdoor adventure lover’s destination. It's got a little bit of the Old West flair, which is fun and a very cute downtown. Then, we also have the Durango and Silverton Narrow Gauge Railroad, which is a popular attraction as well as Mesa Verde National Park. It's just a beautiful place to live. I also think it's a sweet spot as far as mountain towns go because with mountain towns, I feel like you're either on one end of the spectrum and it's a little bit run down, maybe doesn't have as much industry anymore or you're on the other end and you're this super posh luxury resort, mountain town. Durango's this nice sweet spot in the middle where it's thriving and bustling, but not pretentiousness or putting on airs. So, I’m very happy I ended up here. Adam Stoker: 14:13 Yeah. That downtown area you talked about such a, I don't know, such a unique feeling. I've walked downtown and it's a unique place. I thought it had a lot of charm to it. Rachel Brown: Yeah. It's great. You can walk down Main Ave, look up, and there's beautiful peaks right on the horizon. It's surreal, sometimes, how pretty it is. Adam Stoker: Tell me, you obviously have a popular destination. You've got a ski resort there. All kinds of outdoor activities. Tell me how the last two months have affected your destination. Rachel Brown: 14:48 Well, no surprise, travel has come to a halt for everyone, I think, and we are no exception. We work like other destinations in that way. I think our lowest point of occupancy was in March, which is also probably similar to other places. At one point we dropped, I believe, to about 86% below the occupancy we had expected. That is quite low, but there were still a handful of people coming to town. So, it never completely stopped, but very close. Now, we seem to have a bit of a trickle coming back. People have been pent up, they've got cabin fever, and they're eager to get out. So, we do have some out-of-state license plates in town. Visit Durango isn't actively advertising for people to come here right now, but we are, for the people who have come, giving them options of things to do and recommendations that are more informational. Adam Stoker: Got it. Okay. One of the reasons I wanted to talk to you is because you recently presented a recovery plan to your stakeholders. I saw that in an article, wanted to hear how that went, and how you formulated your plan. Let's start there. Rachel Brown: 16:18 Yeah, it was great. I discovered, you know, I've never done a webinar just on my own. I discovered that speaking for 45 minutes straight is a lot. As far as the strategy, my team put together an amazing strategy and the stakeholders really responded to it well. It's 40 slides. It's a big document, so there's a lot of information in there, but I have presented it to a couple of groups since including our County commissioners and one of them afterwards, the only comment was, "Oh, this is the first bit of positive news I've seen in months. Thank you." So, I did kind of keep it on the optimistic, positive side, because I know that's what people are craving right now. I think there are a lot of positive things to highlight about where our tourism economy will go from here, so I tried to focus on that where I could. Adam Stoker: What tools did you use to put your plan together? Rachel Brown: 17:22 So I'm a bit of a data nerd, as I think I mentioned, and love surveys. So we started this off with a tourism sentiment survey and there a lot of those around, I'm sure you've seen webinars and things on sentiment surveys nationally from Destination Analysts or Longwoods, and those have been super helpful in learning that people are going to be more inclined for road trips. People are going to want to go to those remote destinations, but we also wanted data that was specific to Durango because we're, of course, a unique destination and we have unique offerings. We sent this out and got over 1,500 responses. I was very pleased by the great sample size. And we used the Qualtrics survey system for that. And yeah, we got some great results. A lot of it was not very surprising. People said they're much less likely to want to travel by plane, no surprise there. But they also said they're less likely to stay in a vacation rental, which I thought was sort of interesting. Adam Stoker: Less likely. Rachel Brown: 18:40 Less likely. Yeah. I kind of thought it would be the opposite, so that was good information. Things people are more likely to do are, no surprise, scenic driving and camping, but they said they'd also be more interested in taking the train, our attraction here, so that was a little bit surprising as well. So, we took all of this data into account when we crafted our strategy, so it was well-informed and specific to Durango. Adam Stoker: Awesome. Okay. Well, I've heard a lot of people as they talk about their campaign after COVID-19, a lot of people refer to it as, "Well, we'll turn it back on. We'll turn our marketing back on." Rachel Brown: Flip the switch. Adam Stoker: 19:27 Yeah. Flip the switch, but obviously a lot has to change. What do you feel like you are going to be doing differently as part of your recovery plan than the marketing that you had set out to do for the year before the world fell apart? Rachel Brown: 19:42 Sure. Well, the good thing about being new is that a lot of what I'm doing is starting from scratch. So, this wasn't completely out of the realm of what I would have been doing anyway. It's just specific to a pandemic, unfortunately, but we'll be focusing on our county's unique advantages. So obviously, the fact that we're rural will be a major selling point as people will be avoiding major urban environments, but we're also remote, so we're far from major cities. We're affordable. As I said, we're that sweet spot in the middle. We're a year-round destination. We're primarily a domestic drive market, so the fact that there will be international travel regulations or the fear of flying, will be helpful. We're also a very friendly town. We're one of those idyllic small towns where people wave to each other as they pass by in their cars. I think I've heard of other destinations where people are getting a bit aggressive towards out of towners and Durango is nothing like that. I think after the mental health problems that this has maybe brought on for some people, if mildly, they'll be looking for somewhere that's warm and welcoming to visit, so that will be a major asset of ours as well. Then obviously, outdoor recreation is huge here and that's going to be very popular as most of those activities, you can easily social distance, whether you're hiking or biking or camping. So those will all be our advantages. As far as the flipping the switch, we're marketing right now. We never went completely dark because we wanted to stay top of mind to people. We had a great campaign called Durango Dreaming, which was just showing beautiful mountain vistas and sunsets and kind of people-free shots. Now, we're transitioning that into those fresh air, wide open spaces, but with people in them. We actually have four phases to our recovery and in each phase we ramp up how direct we're being in inviting people to come. Adam Stoker: And how did you define those phases? Rachel Brown: 22:23 So the phase we're in right now is what we're calling triage or pre-recovery and is mostly focused on locals. For the out-of-towners, it's more inspirational. It's building pent-up demand. We're not really spending much on advertising right now. It's more just the year-round placements that we already had. We have recovery phases, one, two and three. We have very tentative months tied to those phases, but everything comes with the TBD asterisks right now since no one has that crystal ball. So, in each phase, the radius of advertising and marketing broadens. In recovery phase one, we'll be marketing to mostly Coloradans, drive markets, and we'll still be pushing that safety messaging a lot while also promoting fun things to do. Recovery phase two is when we start getting into the out-of-state. We'll be marketing to people within about a 10-hour drive radius. Normally, we try and stick to five and a half hours for road trips, but in this new normal, I think people are going to be willing to drive much further for vacations, so we're thinking 10 hours is probably good. At that point, we'll definitely be placing a lot more ad buys focused on road trips, outdoor rec, Leave No Trace. Then, in the final phase, recovery phase three, that's when things get back to normal. We're not so focused on local stakeholders and residents. We're more focused on the outside world and maybe even fly markets if international travel's no longer restricted. Then, our regional drive markets like New Mexico, Texas. We'll be looking at the Millennials, the adventure seekers, road tripping families, retired boomers on road trips, and things like that. So, it's pretty straight forward and kind of expected that in each of these phases, as things loosen up, our boundaries and what we're marketing will also loosen with that. Adam Stoker: 25:00 Yeah. Let me tell you what I love about your plan. You've got these multiple phases and the fact that you have tentative launch dates to me is way better than having a specific, “Okay, this is when we'll launch this and this is when we'll launch that,” because there's so many different factors that play into when it's going to be the right time to place those advertisements. So, your phases make sense and I love that it's not the same messaging. We're not having a singular recovery campaign. We're staging our messaging and making sure that we're talking to the right people at the right time. I really like what you've done there. Rachel Brown: 25:37 Thank you. Yeah. I'm quite proud of what the team put together. So that in phase two, we're going to be running a lot of video called Care For Durango. It'll show how shopkeepers keeping their spaces clean and the extra measures they're taking. When we get into that phase three, we're launching a fine gear escape campaign. I'm really excited about that one because I think that's what people are craving right now is that escape whether it be from the house they're stuck in or they're sick of their family and they need to get out. So, Durango really is kind of one of those idyllic places to escape to, and I think that'll be a good advantage for us. Adam Stoker: Did you get any pushback from your stakeholders when you presented your plan? Was there any, "Hey, we want you to change this or do that?" What kind of response did you get? Rachel Brown: 26:34 I would say overall, we got a great response. The webinar I hosted wasn't quite as well attended as we hoped for, but I know a lot people are webinared out right now. The only real non-positive feedback I would say is that people were looking into issues that weren't marketing focused. Obviously, with everything going on right now, destination management is more important than ever. We realize that, and we didn't want to make a destination management recovery plan, but obviously we're doing advocacy and working with stakeholders and things like that. This was more our marketing-focused plan. I would say, I've just had some people inquiring about advocacy efforts and things like that. Adam Stoker: 27:30 Makes perfect sense. Okay. So, as you're launching these recovery campaigns and the different phases, I know that for travelers in general, safety is such a huge priority now. Especially, anybody that's marketing to retirees as one of their personas; safety just went way up as far as the importance goes. Tell me a little bit about the precautions that you're taking and how you are getting that word out as well. It's not like, you don't have a headline that says, "Safest City In Colorado," so what are you doing to communicate that? Rachel Brown: 28:07 Well, we'll be communicating another one of those unique advantages, which is Durango's a very healthy town. The joke is that everyone here knows their resting heart rate. More Olympians and world champions per capita than I think maybe anywhere else in the country, so we'll be using that in a kind of fun way, promoting the fact that we're healthy and we'll be staying that way, but I've also been talking to elected officials and they're considering making masks mandatory, which I think were in support of as long as there's a place for people to find them, if they even bring them along with them. And then consistent signage around town, so making sure shops and restaurants and hotels have up signage that explains the kind of practices that they're taking. I think for hotels, this actually isn't that out of the norm for them because hotels are so committed to cleanliness and safety and health already. Of course, they're taking extra measures right now, but for the other businesses like shops and restaurants, I think communicating what they're doing and then, ideally, enforcing it in a friendly way. Some of our places around town are already saying that you can't enter without a mask and it's possible that they could try and enforce that for all of the town. So that would definitely make us safe and healthy. Adam Stoker: 29:44 Yeah. That's interesting. Especially the idea of possibly supplying those masks. How would that work? Would that be you distribute them throughout your destination in the different restaurants and hotels and attractions, or is that come to the visitor center and get a free mask, or have we gotten that far yet? Rachel Brown: 30:00 Well, due to the shortage of masks, I would hope that some of the retail shops in town would take advantage and be selling, for an affordable price, whether it be bandanas like Old West style or buffs or just normal face masks. Then, it's possible that we could sell them out of our visitor center as well. I'd love to make it a branding opportunity and put our logo on it, but we'll see. We haven't quite crossed that bridge yet. Adam Stoker: 30:36 Got it. Okay. So more to come. I mean, everything's moving so quickly in this process. Especially, different states opening up at different times, which means you, as a destination, might not be open, but the people that are in the market that you're marketing to might have gotten the all clear to travel and it's balancing all these different factors. So, man, the fact that you don't have every single bit of it figured out, you're in the same boat as everybody else. Rachel Brown: 31:07 We're also basically right on the border with New Mexico, so not only are we dealing with neighboring counties, but we're dealing with a neighboring state and a lot of tribes in the region, which are foreign nations, so they have their own restrictions in place. I believe our closest tribe is still under stay-at-home right now. There's a lot to balance. I would love it if we could have some more consistency throughout the country, but I also understand why that's hard to achieve. Adam Stoker: 31:44 Totally. Okay. Anytime you have a major crisis, there's always opportunity. There's always something that you can do to put you in a better place than you were before or take charge on something. Do you see any opportunities like that for Durango? Rachel Brown: 32:04 I think there's always opportunities to give back in a crisis. Coming from the Bay Area, San Francisco, quite close to all the fires that were in Northern California and it was really incredible to see the ways that the DMOs stood up during those times, brought people together, and raise funds. Right now, Visit Durango is actually part of a partnership that has formed. It's called the La Plata County Economic Recovery Task Force. That's quite a mouthful, but it's elected officials, people that work at the city, our chamber, and our business improvement district. All those major business groups are coming together and strategizing ways that we can bounce back from this quickly. There's a website for that and part of what that website does is take donations and raises funds for either nonprofits in town or individuals that are struggling. So, raising funds is one of the obvious ways that I think we can help out, but then, those general partnerships and strategizing with the community. I think it's really incredible to see how leadership stands up in a time like this and who really comes to the forefront and takes charge. In such a tourism heavy community like Durango, Visit Durango has definitely been able to help out and take that role. Adam Stoker: Yeah. It sounds like you've really been able to strengthen your relationships with your stakeholders through this process. Rachel Brown: Definitely. Yeah. I was relatively new to town and I was still in the process of doing the rounds and meeting people when the Coronavirus happened and now I've met everyone on Zoom. Hopefully, I'll get to shake their hands someday. Adam Stoker: Isn't that funny? It would have taken you months to actually go visit each of these people and see them in person and through Zoom, you were able to accelerate that process. I see that as an opportunity, as well. Rachel Brown: 34:11 Yeah. It's interesting how this is going to change the way we work and how we work with technology. I think we'll see a lot more meetings on Zoom now and instant messaging is on the rise. So, it's been an adventure for sure. Also, we have those unique advantages I mentioned, but I think just that being such a beautiful, peaceful place will really be an advantage and that's something we can highlight is the fresh air, mountain views, and tranquility. Adam Stoker: Yeah. A little fresh air sounds good to everybody right about now. Rachel Brown: I bet. Get out of the house. Adam Stoker: Well, tell me kind of the biggest thing you've learned from this. Rachel Brown: 35:03 Oh, that's a good question. I would say something I've learned is probably to remember to be patient, which is maybe a bit broader than you might've anticipated. Patience right now is very valuable in a lot of ways. People are anxious. The orders are changing every day and they didn't explain what this means and what are they going to say on Friday? You have to roll with the punches right now, be patient, and be understanding. Then, with your friends and family and coworkers, from a relationship standpoint, people are pretty stressed out right now and they might be acting a little differently than they would under normal circumstances. It's good to be patient, remember to take care of each other, take care of your community, and be understanding. Adam Stoker: 36:09 I think that's great advice. I think right now there's this, I wouldn't call it a full panic, but a light panic and sometimes we don't even know exactly what we're feeling panicked about, but there's this anxiety that comes along with the Coronavirus and I think patience is kind of the antidote. I think that's a great piece of advice. Rachel Brown: Yeah, easier said than done. Adam Stoker: Totally, totally. Well, Rachel, this has been great. Is there anything I haven't asked you that you feel like would benefit our audience? Rachel Brown: 36:41 I would say if you're considering traveling somewhere, you might want to check on the destination's actual website because there's a lot of mixed messaging out there around what states are off limits or what regions are not accepting visitors. If you go directly to the source, you're more likely to find the real answer. So, my recommendation is that as people are planning their travel right now because they're excited to get out of town, just to make sure from the destination perspective that they're getting the right info. Adam Stoker: Then, as the destination, make sure that all your info is updated on your website correctly, right? Rachel Brown: Ideally, above the fold on your website. Adam Stoker: Absolutely. Well, Rachel, this has been fun. Thanks for coming on with us today. Rachel Brown: Yeah. Thanks so much for having me. It's been great to be a guest on one of my favorite podcasts. Adam Stoker: Well, thank you. These endorsements are not even paid. That's awesome. Thank you. Rachel Brown: I swear I wasn't bribed. Adam Stoker: That's right. Well, thanks again for coming on. Rachel Brown: Yeah, thanks for having me. Have a good one. Adam Stoker: 37:55 You too. This has been another great episode of the Destination Marketing podcast. Thanks everybody for listening. As you're working on those recovery campaigns, I hope we were able to provide some valuable insight today, including a phased approach to your recovery. Don't get so caught up in feeling the need to have an assigned date to every launch of every phase. Patience. Let's have the plan, then be prepared to launch it according to the circumstances that are out there. Thanks everybody for listening and we'll talk to you next week.
Page of
We recommend upgrading to the latest Chrome, Firefox, Safari, or Edge.
Please check your internet connection and refresh the page. You might also try disabling any ad blockers.
You can visit our support center if you're having problems.