Hello everyone and Welcome to another
episode of Selling Greenville your
favorite real estate podcast here in the
upstate of South Carolina I'm your host
as always Stan McCune realtor here in
Greenville all my contact information is
in the show notes if you need to reach
me if you need to buy a house if you
need to sell a house let me know and
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that to get the show out to as many
people as possible all right today we're
going to hop right into to a discussion
about one of my favorite things you
guys know that I like to complain about
our local government because our local
government often times causes more
harm than good when it comes to the
local real estate community and today
we're going to be talking about
permitting and codes and enforcement all
of those different things because we
have a lot of what I like to call
clipboard Warriors here in Greenville
that their entire life consists of
simply trying to find people that are
God forbid doing updates to their
homes without permitting and this is one
of the most frustrating things about
home ownership is is the need to get
permits on just about everything now I
say just about everything because not
every single item requires permitting
but that being said the list is pretty
extensive and and really the county
or the city could basically call you for
doing just about anything without
getting it
permitted aside from like painting
something very basic like that now
the the idea of requiring permits makes
some sense I'm not going to pretend like
it makes no sense it does make some
sense when it comes to for instance is
building new construction we saw a
tragedy in Florida a few months ago when
a an apartment building collapsed that
obviously had W had some issues had
obviously some problems when probably it
was originally built maybe they
hadn't kept up with it I I didn't read a
ton about it so I don't know all the
details but that is the value of
Permitting is to ensure that things like
that don't happen to ensure that homes
are being built the right way that they
are structurally sound that everything
is done properly but the idea of
Permitting it it has had a bit of a
concept creep so to speak where
it's now extended to to so many other
things now you're required to have so
many outlets everywhere and and all
these different things that really the
market should decide that and in my
opinion I don't feel like the county or
the city or the state or any
government should decide how many
outlets the room has but
unfortunately that is a situation we
find ourselves in and here's where it
becomes tricky again I don't have a
whole lot of problem with that with new
construction but they apply the same
standards of new construction to home
remodels now it is a completely
different thing to build a home from the
ground up versus taking an old home and
remodeling it and it it can be extremely
difficult and extremely
expensive in order to when you're
doing a basic remodel of a home to then
also have to retrofit that home or or
basically bring it up to code which is
what the county or the city is going to
require because now they are involved
they're going to come in there and say
okay you need more outlets in here you
need this type of wiring you need this
type of of Breakers etc etc
now you have to bring everything up to
code that's frustrating that's expensive
that's costly timec consuming
nobody wants to have to do that but
unfortunately that is what ends up
happening when you have the city and or
the county involved and yes I have
referenced the city and the county
multiple times because they both have
their own permitting divisions and and
this is again one of the strange and
confusing things about it where I I
understand that if a house Falls within
City Limits then it's supposed to be a
city permit basically rather than a
County permit well I had a house
recently that that I purchased that
someone had started the work on it but
had hadn't got gotten it finished so
they had permitted some of it but
they hadn't finished it and so I had to
come in and I had to have my li My
licensed contractor pull permits for
us to then go do some work but the
the the home was in city limits but it
had County permits and my contractor was
like oh that's good we we want that
because the county typically is not as
strict as the
city but what happens then if the if the
city clipboard Warrior comes around and
sees oh they're doing a bunch of work on
this house it's been permitted by the
county but this is our jurisdiction I
don't know it's it's very weird it's not
it's not nearly as organized as it
should be and it's not nearly as
straightforward as it should be I've
been in their office it's a mess the
one in County Square very you know
disorganized in a lot of different ways
and so I they there's a lot of stuff
that they in my opinion need to do in
order to to to clean up their
operations
but at the end of the day here's the
thing a lot of people get by without
permitting work I mean a lot of people
remodel kitchens without permitting a
lot of people remodel bathrooms without
permitting and and there's kind of this
Unwritten rule that a lot of people
follow and a lot of contractors will as
well that if you aren't doing
anything major on the exterior not
making any major exterior changes to
siding roofs Windows Etc you can
probably get by without permitting but
if you get caught you can get in big
trouble okay now what does that mean
well I I'll tell you a couple of stories
I I'm mentioned this one a little
while back but I I bought a a
property last year that was it was
actually a couple of properties that
were together on the same lot two
duplexes and they were not in good
condition at all when I purchased them
that was why the seller was selling them
and I tried to be a good landlord where
I try to make sure that the properties
are that my tenants are in are in good
condition and so I immediately knew
there was water coming into one of the
units through the roof we needed to
replace that roof the windows were awful
the windows need to be replaced my
insurance would wouldn't even insure it
with the windows that were currently
there so we had to do all this stuff and
it fell through the cracks that that
did not get permitted and I I kid you
not the day after the roof started
the roof job started the county was
posting stickers all over the property
telling me that it needed to be
permitted if it was not permitted within
a certain number of days that the
work would be shut down etc etc and here
it is we're just trying to make this
property livable I I and I mean calm
down like we'll pay you your 45 bucks
for the permit but you know let's
just kind of chill out a little bit here
let us get the work done so these people
have a place that that isn't leaking
water all over their heads right and
so again in an effort to do quote
unquote good the county ends up up
hurting the very people is trying to
help there was a in an effort to
ensure that we put that we installed a
roof correctly they were dragging out a
job that had that was trying to keep
them from having a leaky roof over their
head so it's just kind of a
joke I know someone else recently I just
spoke to someone else recently that
he flipped a lot of houses and
apparently it became known by the county
that he was flipping all these houses
without getting the work permitted he
was doing under the radar now why do why
do people want to do that it's not so
much trying to avoid the the county or
the city from having their fingers
over everything although that's
certainly a part of it but more a a lot
of the the
cheapest contractors around here
handymen women whatever typically are
not licensed because that costs a lot
more money than to just you know be a
handy person
so a lot of people that flip houses they
have their own crew and their crew is
not run by a licensed contractor and so
here's the thing in order to get permits
it has to be with a licensed contractor
but the county and the city require that
well that obviously is a problem if you
don't have a licensed contractor being
the point person there are sometimes
contractors that are willing to pull a
permit for someone else using their own
crew but they usually charge a
substantial amount of money for that
because that's risky for them they don't
most contractors don't want to take on
that risk they don't know who these Subs
are they don't you know they don't want
to get sued for something and and so
that's where the rubber meets the road
but the county found out that this that
this guy had been doing this had been
using his own crew to do a lot of work
that hadn't been permitted on a lot of
houses and so they started going through
Zillow and and finding all the
properties that that he had owned and
sold that he had done work to and
they finded this person
$225,000 and then made him write
letters to every single person he had
sold a house to telling him telling
those people that the work that had
been done to the house had not been
permitted and it may not be safe
something to that effect and so yeah
they they can be out for blood and
let me tell you those clipboard Warriors
they don't joke around they are ready to
pounce they're like sharks in the
water when they smell blood they start
circling and so you have to you have
to be aware of that another story I
told a while back this was one of the
the most frustrating ones for me
personally I was the listing agent for a
house that had permitted everything they
had done everything by the book finished
the renovation we were all good to go
listed the house and we went under
contract and after being under
contract a clipboard Warrior from I
think it was the county came by and said
no I'm sorry in this area your
driveway can only be 10 ft 10 ft wide
and you installed a 15t wide driveway
here well down the street are multiple
homes with bigger driveways circular
driveways all sorts of different
driveways but they have been
grandfathered in because this house was
a recent
remodel they were not allowed to have
the 15ft driveway well cut they they had
to cut it down and cutting it down from
15 to 10 ft
turns it from a two-car driveway to a
onear that was a big deal for the people
that were now under contract to purchase
the home and so we ended up losing that
contract because of the county and
and the the part the infuriates me the
most out of all of that is people are
always going to have people over to
their homes right and this is a a short
single car driveway
now that it had been had to be cut down
to 10 ft anytime anyone came over to
visit that house or anytime someone does
come over to visit that house they have
to park on the street and so and and
it's a narrow Street and so literally
the county was
forcing more clutter and traffic on the
street over 5T of concrete it it was a
joke frustrating but the worst part
about it was that they had actually
attempted to permit everything and had
attempted to go buy the book and still
ran into problems with with the county
they had additional expense that
hurt their home value they were not able
to sell the home for as much after
they cut it down and lost their first
contract as they originally were so it
just it's frustrating and and yes I
do like to vent about this and here's
the thing at the end of the day the
permits are not that expensive some of
the permits are like 15 25 50 bucks I
mean the permits themselves are
relatively cheap but the whole problem
is that then the county and then the
city are involved and then you have to
have a licensed South Carolina
contractor which many of us don't want
to don't want to use particularly you
know if if it's just a simple
a simple job you shouldn't need to
have a licensed contractor come in there
and do it just to say that there is a
licensed contractor involved it's it's
just a ridiculous thing because they
don't even do the work that's the thing
they will just sub it out to one of
their subs why can't you just go to the
sub directly and go about it that way
well no the the county the city they
won't allow that now there is one
exception though and this is a very
important exception there is one
exception and that is that if you are an
owner occupant you own the house you
live in the house you may pull your own
permits you're allowed to do that in
that one situation I I think the
thinking there is that it's your your
home and so if you hire people to do
the work and they completely Jack it up
you're going to be more invested in
making sure that the home that that the
work is done properly so that the home
that you're living in is not falling
apart so I I believe that's the
thinking there but even then you know
it's not clear-cut on multif family
properties for instance so when it
comes to both property taxes in in
South Carolina and also when it comes to
getting loans a duplex Triplex or
quadruplex can be owner occupied and if
you owner occup occupy one unit of those
which of course you can't own or occupy
multiple of the units well I guess in
theory you could but it wouldn't make
sense but if you owner occupy for
instance one unit of a quadruplex that
is considered an owner occupied quad for
the purposes of everything
except permitting and this is not
clear I I could not find anything about
this on the county or the city's
websites but I personally witnessed
someone in the county office at one
point trying to get permits on a
duplex that that they were doing work
on that was not livable and they were
planning to move into
it but they couldn't move into it yet
because it wasn't livable and they
needed to to get the work permitted
and the county wouldn't allow it
because the county said well a duplex is
a rental property and this person was
like well I'm owner occupying it though
no a duplex is inherently a rental a
rental property you have to have a
licensed contractor come and pull this
permit and so again it's kind of like
you know cutting off your nose to
sput your face that is what I feel like
so frequently is is what code
enforcement and permit office what
they're doing the clipboard Warriors
that are forcing people to go through
all this red tape just to do simple
things and just to make properties
livable and and this is it's for the
best of all of us that we update our
homes and that we make sure that
properties are livable and that we
replace roofs and and all of these
different things but the county the city
they they keep doing things to not
make it simple and of course we've
talked about this before all of this
also impacts housing affordability in a
lot of different ways
none of them good none of them good
so beware the clipboard warriors know
what you are getting into when you
permit a house or when you choose to
not permit work that is being done be
careful if you're flipping houses and
trying to do it without a permit because
I had one recently where it showed
up on an inspection report
had the work for this home been
permitted we would see XYZ there was
something electrical in the house that
wasn't broken but it just wasn't up to
code and the inspector on the inspection
report I felt like it was kind of a
silly thing to put on an inspection
report but said but kind of threw shade
at the seller saying if this had been
permitted this work would have been done
so and and as I already said
my story from earlier someone got a very
Hefty fine and could potentially have
been sued by the people that he had
to write letters to based on the county
interv intervening and and getting
upset with him for not permitting work
so be careful out there this is just
something that we have to deal with it's
something we have to figure out and and
work with and unfortunately it's not
going away the county the City they keep
getting stricter they're only getting
stricter they're forcing a lot more
things and and now in subdivisions need
to have all this green space and all
these different requirements as well
they keep making it more and more
difficult they're trying to to push more
costs onto
developers it it it's not going to
have a long-term positive impact in my
opinion but it's something that we have
to be aware of and that we have to deal
with regardless and so make sure at
the end of the day I have to tell you
make sure that you get your work
permitted the county and the city
both have websites that are confusing
but that you can go to and and look at
the list of things that need to be
permitted and the things that they are
okay with not permitting and so go
ahead and look at that before you do a
bunch of work make sure that you're in
compliance and that's it for today's
episode nice short one hope you guys
enjoyed it hope it made you angry
at the at the county and the city but
but that you understand the
importance of of Permitting and how
and the potential pitfalls there if you
have any questions let me know all of my
contact information is in the show notes
rate review subscribe to the show and
have a great rest of the week
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