Hello everyone and Welcome to another
episode of Selling Greenville your
favorite real estate podcast here in the
upstate of South Carolina and I am your
host as always Stan McCune realtor right
here in the Greenville area and as
always you can find all my contact
information in the show notes if you
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that going all right today we're
going to do kind of a successor part two
episode from episode 72 so you might
want to go back and listen to episode 72
if you want to it's a 26 minute or close
to 27 minute episode entitled
takeaways from a 15 unit transaction
this is going to be the actual
takeaways you know I had to I had to
word that a a certain way you know it
made it sound like it was a 15
unit closing that it actually got to
closing it did not actually get to
closing unfortunately at that time I
thought it was going to it didn't it
fell through and so I have actually I
mean how long AG is that I do one of
these every week that was months ago
that I recorded that episode to this day
I still haven't sold all of those condos
that were in that 15 unit package but
I'm going to explain now what happened
what the story was behind it you guys
get a little Peak behind the veil of
what my life is like as a realtor and
in the process you'll learn a little bit
about real estate investing particularly
condos and how all of this works and
some of the challenges that there can be
with real estate investing at times
so just a a reminder so I had a package
of 15 condos in a broader community that
had about 100 condos total in it and
my 15 unit package was unique in a lot
of different ways these condos were not
contiguous so they were spread out
throughout the community there were
multiple sellers so there were four
different Sellers and and the way I I
got this package together is because I
owned some of the units I owned four
units in in in its entirety and then
another three units I owned with some
partners and because of that I then was
also connected to to the board to
various other owners in the community so
when I decided to
sell the seven that I owned wholly or in
Part I out to a few other sellers in
the community that I knew to see
other owners in the community to see hey
is there any interest in selling I'm
selling I think that there will be
interest in a big package of these
things because there's a lot of people
looking looking to buy a package of
of Housing and there's a lot of money
being slung around right now in
Greenville in real estate and sure
enough there was interest I was able
to get eight other units from a couple
of other different Sellers and so we put
it together as one big 15 unit listing
all right that's a little bit of a
summary of that podcast I went into a
whole lot more detail in there but we
got a ton of interest in those 15 units
I mean my phone my email it was all
blowing up it was great I was excited we
immediately got under contract with a
cash
buyer the cash buyer did not work out
the cash buyer totally totally fell
through totally just ghosted us
actually and guess what we actually got
his earnest money back I mean that
doesn't that doesn't happen every day
there are so many ways that a buyer can
can recuperate their earnest money but
that buyer because he dragged us out
until the very end and then just ghosted
us he lost his earnest money so so we
got that we got the earnest money
then we got a back under contract
with another
buyer and and this buyer I had some
connections to him via someone else
that is local but the buyer himself was
out of state was in
California
and he was squeaky clean an attorney
plenty of money in the bank plenty of
banking relationships and I didn't see
that there would be any scenario where
he wouldn't be able to get to closing
and I have tons of obviously my own
banking relationships and lenders people
that can that'll do favors for me and
whatnot and I really thought we were
going to be able to to work something
out with this guy
unfortunately it fell through again a
second time with this guy and this time
it was the financing that fell through
he was he was trying to finance them and
this became a big problem for trying to
move these
condos what I learned I never fully
understood all of the all of the
challenges behind trying to finance
these because when I purchased them I
did not personally have any problem
financing my condos but I went with a
local bank I have a few different
banks that I that I work with locally
and they can get stuff done that you
know the Bank of America's of of the
world can't
and and I encouraged people when they
reached out to me and they express
interest I would try to kind of
encourage them hey look at these look at
these banks these These are the banks
that are more likely to be able to do it
although I will say that a lot of
these local banks are becoming stricter
during Co they become stricter there's a
lot of concern that there might be high
foreclosure rates coming up here in
in the next year etc etc so they have
kind of buttoned things down a little
bit
and kind of taken some measures to just
not be careless as it were with their
money just on every single
investment so all that to be said there
were a Litany of reasons why these
condos were were very difficult to
finance the first one is that they
weren't
warrantable and that doesn't mean
that they couldn't get a home warranty
that is a term that is used in the
industry that b basically you can't get
a fanny it it doesn't the condos did not
meet Fanny and Freddy's requirements
Fanny May Freddy Max
requirements for their types of loans
such as a conventional loan for instance
and of course the vast majority of
loans are those types of loans that are
Fanny or Freddy types of products and so
this is a a big problem and and the
reason why they weren't warrantable is
because because Fanny and Freddy have a
couple of major
requirements that condos
specifically have to pass in order to
qualify for a conventional or an FHA
loan and and I'll be honest I
probably need to have a A lender on here
explain this I'm going to explain this
to the best of my abilities but there
might be some very Minor Details here
and there that aren't correct but I know
that the vast majority of this is
definitely correct but the big
picture I'm trying to give you the big
picture scope of it so and I learned a
lot through this process and I'm I'm
just trying to communicate that to you
guys
so they're not there my understanding is
that there are two reasons why two main
reasons why these un these condos
weren't warrantable one was that the HOA
did not have a reserve budget no Reserve
budget at all and there's a long story
about that going back to the previous
HOA manager that was like embezzling
money from the community and all sorts
of things we fired them hired a
different HOA manager and they have
done substantially better now have
gotten
everyone up to speed in terms of of
being able to in in terms of being up
todate I should say on their payments
and so whereas the community was not
doing very well financially a few years
ago now it's it's finally in the black
everyone is paying it's doing much
better but still doesn't have a reserve
budget the requirement for them to be
warrantable is at least 10% of the
budget has to be committed towards
Community reserves so that was strike
number one strike number two in terms of
the warrant ability conversation was
I believe that it's about 50% I think at
least 50% of the units there there's a
50% number and a 30% number but regard l
a large percent of of the community has
to be owner occupied and this is a
community that had like almost no owner
occupied units I mean we're talking
about maybe 5% of the units are are
owner occupied the rest are just all
rental properties so it was not
warrantable because of those two
things but that being said there are
other loan products out there like I
said I've gotten them there are other
loan products out there other banks
that that can do what we call portfolio
loans loans that they hold themselves
that they don't care about those things
specifically local banks that understand
the market that are able to drive to the
properties look lay eyes on the
properties themselves see what's going
on have more of more of a personal
touch to it rather than just looking at
spreadsheets and just declining on the
basis of of it not fitting the
spreadsheet criteria so there are
options however a lot of banks that
talked to and I talked to a ton of Banks
and and my attorney client that
attempted to purchase these I think he
also talked to 15 or 20 different banks
as well a lot of banks even if they
weren't concerned about the the
warrantable part of it they still had a
an issue with the fact that there was a
lack of a reserve fund they did not like
the risk that they felt like they were
exposed to if the HOA had any major
expenses come up a lot of banks were
concerned about that and that's
that's understandable I would try to
explain to them what I just explain to
you about the the past history of the
community but at the end of the day
Underwriters underwrite right and and
they are the ones that are ultimately
just kind of looking at a spreadsheet
and you can tell them stories until
you're blew in the face they don't care
that's not their job isn't to listen to
stories their job is to make sure that
everything is safe and above board
and that was one thing that a lot of
Underwriters deemed unsafe
additionally there is an owner in the
community that owns roughly
35% of of the units in that community
and for some banks that was a an issue
of control major issue of control they
they don't want there to be someone that
can completely steer the community in
One Direction or another because they
might sear the community in a bad
Direction even though it it was kind
of a joke because that owner lives in
New York and uses the property manager
that manages like 80% of the units out
there for everything the property
manager handles every single aspect of
management for this guy I I know this
guy I talked to him he's angry he got
angry at me that I I you know was
listing all these properties for the
prices I did because he wanted to buy
more you know at you know low you
know Bargain Basement pricing and I
was just like I'm sorry I'm I'm selling
these for what the market is you may
have had success in the past with
Bargain Basement pricing in this
community but that's just not the case
anymore and I told him he should go
celebrate that I just made all his
properties go up in value regardless
he owns about 35% of the community but
at the end of the day the property
manager who's handling everything
manages 80% of the community so she's
the one that has control right the banks
whatever they they have their system
it's not a common sense they don't
operate on a common sense level this
is just one of their requirements they
didn't like that all right so that was
strike number three for a lot of
banks now as I mentioned though there
are local banks that are okay
that are willing to look past all of
these different things because they
understand the way the market is the way
the community is all these different
things and they're not as concerned with
the risk and they're also planning to to
keep the loan themselves that's another
thing a lot of banks they'll sell their
they'll sell loans you know that's
why we have the term portfolio loan what
that means is the bank isn't planning to
sell it they're planning to keep it
that's what a lot of these smaller local
banks are good at is that they have a
you know a budget for local portfolio
loans that they will give to Real
Estate Investors and the
like so all that to be said there
were plenty of local banks that are
willing to finance in this community but
they won't Finance to an outof State
buyer and here's the reason here was how
they explained it to me they said if you
have a South Carolina
LLC and a a South Carolina Bank that
doesn't have a presence you know outside
of the state basically you've got a
buyer in another state that is the
guarantor of the LLC in South Carolina
but that
bank that the lender that that buyer in
say California is trying to
use that bank does not have a branch in
California they do not have any business
tied to
California basically that company in
South Carolina the LLC in South Carolina
that is purchasing the property in South
Carolina and that is getting the loan
from the bank in South Carolina is a
pass through entity it's being
guaranteed there's the guarantor in
California or whatever state you want to
say and if that person defaulted and
didn't pay his or her loan it would be
very difficult basically cost
prohibitive time prohibitive for the
South Carolina lender to go after the
California
guarantor that is the long story short
of it and trust me it was a long
story I had I I mean I can't tell you
how many conversations I had with
lenders about all these different things
and so that was something I
personally had never run into in my
career I've had plenty of out of state
buyers before and out ofst State
investors but I've never run into
specifically that issue because
usually there's multiple different you
know there might be a lender that
declines to to do a loan but then
there's a bunch of other lenders that
will do it but particularly when
you've got these are units that are in
good condition you know already owner
OCC not owner occupied already
occupied borrower with great credit
money in the bank great job all these
different things and Banks just not
willing to loan because of of all of
these different problems so after
multiple contracts fell through on this
package of 15 units I had to go back to
the drawing board and I was just like
what what am I going to do right I I
really there's a a bit of some there's
obviously complexity to trying to to do
a package like that like for instance
there were some sellers that were none
of us were exactly motivated because we
were all making money from from these
condos while they were not being sold so
it wasn't a big deal if they if it fell
through in theory but at the same
time there were different levels of
motivation I I wanted the the money for
different reasons you know some of the
other sellers wanted the money for some
other reasons some of the sellers were
just like you know what I don't
really I'm totally fine keeping these
I'm not motivated at all it's just if I
can get this top dollar figure then I'll
take it but if not then then I'm just
going to sit back and just enjoy the
rent that I'm making on these Pro on
these units so it became it was a
little bit difficult when a buyer would
come along for the 15 units and say okay
here's the amount I'm willing to pay now
I had to take that and talk to all the
different parties to figure out who's
getting what how are we going to split
this money up in a in a way that's fair
for everyone so there was some
complexity there but it was also much
simpler than having 15 different
listings and having to manage all of
that that that was a disaster that would
have been a disaster not to mention that
most of these properties had loans on
them and and of course if you sell
for instance the the seven that I had I
had two different loans on them I had
on the four units that I owned just
entirely myself I had one loan on those
four units and then on the three units I
owned with Partners I had another loan
on those three units well if you sell
let's say that I tried to sell one of
those units I would need to be able to
pay off the entirety of the loan in
order to do that and obviously could not
do that so I had to sell I couldn't just
sell one here one there two here two
there it had to be the at least the
entire package within that entity the
the the four units that I held in this
one LLC that I own and it has a loan on
those four units I had to sell all of
those together the other three units I
had to sell all of them together then I
had the seller of six units had to
sell all of his together and then
another seller of two units I had to
sell all of those together those two
units together that was the only way to
make it work so what I decided I'd
gotten a a good bit of feedback from
from people calling and asking you know
hey would you be able to split off three
or four of these or whatever and it was
like well yes in theory I could but
we're really trying to sell these all as
a package we've got a ton of interest in
them as a package and that's what we're
trying to
do after now multiple times of
contracts falling through and just all
of the all of the work that was put in
that just resulted in nothing I had
basically nothing except for you know
earnest money that was forfeited at the
beginning that we were able to to get
outside of of that I had nothing to show
for a tremendous amount of work and so
going back to the drawing board I
decided and and I obviously talked to
the sellers and said you know hey I
think our best bet here people know that
there's a package of condos out here so
I've already marketed all of that but I
think our best bet is to split these up
and you know I can still co-market them
but we need to to open up the field to
more of these local buyers because
that's the thing is I was getting so
many calls from people out of state and
they needed to finance and they couldn't
and all the local buyers for the most
part that I was talking to they were
looking for a smaller package and so
that was what I had to do so so I I
created four different listings instead
of the one the sellers of the two units
they backed out they decided you know
what we don't want to sell at least not
until next year for capital gains
purposes fine I picked up though another
seller of four units so I went from
15 units to 17 units I was selling so I
had a package of four four another
package of four a package of three and a
package of six all of these I listed
basically at the same
time and I figured that there would be I
I already knew there was going to be a
lot of demand and boy was
there because not only did I get all
all the people that were interested in
getting the 17 units in their entirety I
also got all the people interested in
the three units and the four units and
and the six
and
so the floodgates opened and it was nuts
my wife joked it it was it was a half
joke probably more like a quarter joke
or or a tenth joke that it was like a
second full-time job just those listings
and I mean yeah it it was I mean I I'm I
didn't ever like quantify how much time
I spent
trying to just having conversations
with people about those condos like
responding to emails responding to text
messages but it was easily 25 to 30
hours per week at least it was I had to
to dedicate at
least three to four hours per day just
for that it was nuts I had a
conversation you know I was trying to
talk to my mom one afternoon and
literally during a 1-hour conversation
with my mom I got interrupted it was
either three maybe four times people
calling every one of them about these
condo packages and that was after they
had been on the market for weeks that's
the that's the the crazy thing about it
but everyone wanted to finance them so I
had to have lengthy discussions with the
Realtors lengthy discussions with the
loan officers trying to explain all the
reasons why these were tricky to
finance because at the end of the day I
didn't want to get these under contract
and have the contracts fall through
again that's so much work for everyone
and if you have inspectors going through
you have appraisers going through that's
a disturbance to the tenants tenants do
not like that and I and I did get
complaints the property manager did
communicate some complaints from some of
the tenants about this and so that
was that was problematic as well
so we were trying to avoid
that
so honestly we had multiple full price
offers that I recommended to my clients
and they took my advice that we declined
because when I vetted out the buyer when
I vetted out the loan officer I was not
confident that it would get to closing
we had one person that you know
that insisted that they could buy the
package of four with four individual
conventional loans and I was like no you
cannot get conventional loans on these
like what don't you understand about
that and you know it it was just
sometimes I I felt like I had to you
know I I don't know have like a a class
just like teach a class to and just have
a bunch of realtors in there sit down
and me be like here okay here are all
the interested parties in these condos
let me explain to you why you cannot get
conventional loans on these people
didn't understand they didn't understand
they thought they could just package
together some of them they could just
package these together as conventional
loans you can't do that you can't these
are individually deed condos you can't
just package together you know a
bunch of condos under one conventional
loan if it was a quadruplex you could
but that's not that's not what we were
talking about here
and so it was a very unique deal cuz
usually you know when you're trying to
sell something
the usually the seller is at least
somewhat motivated but this was a
situation where none of the sellers were
really motivated so it was like here we
go we have these condos out here if you
want them you pretty much have to Pony
up at least close to a full price offer
if you know we had people for the one
package of four that was listed for
300,000 someone came with a $290,000
offer declined declined why why why take
less than what you're asking when you're
in a position to you know you're getting
rent you're getting consistent rent
coming through and you're not in a
position where you desperately need the
cash why why not hold out for the
full price and so my clients I you
know I didn't get frustrated with them a
lot of listing agents would get
frustrated with their clients over that
like this is close to a full press offer
but we had that understanding on the
front end that no we're going to we're
going to hold out and usually you can't
do that that's the thing right usually
let's say that you list a house
tomorrow and you know you list it for
the top of the market and it doesn't
sell and a month or two months later it
still hasn't sold three four months
later it still hasn't sold you're
probably going to have to lower the
price in order to to get some activity
on it that's not what we have to do
in the multif family world because there
is there are so few we've talked about
this before but the inventory in multif
family is so low that you can literally
just sit there and eventually unless
there's something really wrong with the
property eventually a buyer will come
along and so that's what that's what
we did we just sat
there and eventually the buyers came and
and like I said it would take a long
process we we might I might have someone
reach out to me and say hey I want to
make a full price offer on these and it'
be like okay well who's your lender
they're going to use Wells Fargo no no
you you're not going to use Wells Fargo
like don't I I'll present the offer
obviously I'm legally responsible to
present your offer if you want to make
an offer but I'm telling you right now
I'm we've had other contracts fall
through due to financing and my buyer
has expressed my sorry my seller client
has expressed that he's going to be
extremely cautious in terms of the next
one that he sells and he in terms of
the next contract that he accepts and
he wants me to vet out every single loan
officer and I don't think Wells Fargo is
going to make the cut and so I had to
have these I had to have these
conversations so it would take from the
time I first started talking to someone
at least a week oftentimes closer to two
weeks before we would actually even be
able to determine whether they could
make an offer or not like an offer that
that might be accepted and so it's
very very interesting very unique in
in the real estate world we always talk
about not making verbal offers but with
this type of a deal that's really how it
had to to come together because so much
of it had to be done verbally let's just
say I'm I made my commissions I
earned my commissions selling these I
mean like I said a ton of work ton of
work I'm definitely getting paid minimum
wage for my commissions on on these
properties let me tell you but that's
fine it it it supposed to balance out it
hasn't balanced out this year
necessarily I I feel like you know i'
I've definitely worked for my listings
and and for all of my clients this year
this has been a been a crazy Year from
that standpoint but I'm also in this
to work so I'm not going to complain
about that I'm happy I'm happy for the
work so so we finally started to get
these under contract and it started
with with my four units and then
the the package of six those were the
first two to go under contract they went
under contract almost right away and
that was an interesting thing that I saw
happen as well is that seemed like a lot
of people were they the level of due
diligence that they had to do or I would
call it pree diligence right because
they weren't they weren't yet under
contract during a due diligence period
but it seemed like what would happen
is when these came on the market it was
like there would be a few weeks of
everyone inquiring and doing their
homework and whatnot and then all of a
sudden after like multiple weeks of
these being on the market we would get
multiple offers and that that was what
made it again unlike any other type of
real estate transaction I've done like
if you get multiple offers it's it's
almost always in the first few days but
with these it they might be on the
market for 3 weeks and then all of a
sudden we get three offers from multiple
different parties on them it was very
extremely
uh
unusual but an interesting process to
watch so finally in the last few
weeks 10 of the units have closed three
of the units the the other three that I
own partially those are set to close
on Thursday I'm recording this on
November 30th those are supposed to
close on December 2nd and then the
other four units I have listed are
supposed to close
early
January we'll see about that one that
one I I talked to the appraiser
recently he did not Inspire much
confidence that the appraiser was a
complete complete disaster on multiple
levels did not sound like he knows what
he's doing so so we'll see we'll see
what happens there I tried I tried to
help him out as much as possible but
you can only do so much
the oh I I should
should mention I don't think I mentioned
this on on the the kind of part one of
this my episode 71 or 72 whatever it
was on the 15 unit package but there
was a guy that was just going back and
forth like we had an extremely long
email thread going back and forth with
this realtor and I was having to do he's
not even a local realtor like he's
technically licensed in South Carolina
but he doesn't live in Greenville
so technically he can get a
commission but at the same time for for
bringing a buyer but at the same time I
have to do basically all the work for
him and I was trying to I was I was
legitimately trying to but it just got
to a point where the questions were
ridiculous and and I alluded to this a
little bit on my novice investor episode
but ultimately I just said to the guy
Hey listen I don't think that this this
deal is the right fit for your client
like yeah I I'm totally respectful for a
novice investor but these questions are
ridiculous like you're asking the
condition of like the fence in the back
like I don't know what the condition of
the fences in the back nobody uses those
fences and and that was that was a
big takeaway for me just kind of in
general
there is I I can understand now and
I'm not trying to Pat myself on the
shoulder but I can understand now why I
get pretty much weekly calls from people
looking for a realtor that can help them
with real estate investing because those
that are out there listen there's so
much more money to be made as a
realtor just in normal retail real
estate just helping people buy and
sell the house that they're planning to
live in because there's not a lot of
investment properties for sale right now
and so at the end of the day there's not
a lot of realtors that have specialized
in that because there's no money to be
made there in theory in theory right
now I've figured out how to how to make
money in that which I'm not going to
bore you guys with all of the ins and
outs of that but but that's not a
niche that most people want to be in
because who wants to sell $50,000 houses
or in these cases condos that you know
some of these condos were for sold for
like
60,000 so that's something that I
learned is I understand now I mean I had
to I had to and and I was happy to I
don't I wasn't frustrated with it but I
had to really try to educate these
Realtors and some of them were resistant
to that and others were like hey they
were just honest they're like hey I'll
just be honest I don't really know
anything about multif family so any
insight you can share I'm I'm willing
to I'm willing to hear I want to learn
in this process and I appreciated that I
appreciated the ones that were that were
honest because I could tell I could I
could identify I could sniff it out
right away if there was a realtor that
did not know what he or she was doing
listen that was obvious in the first
five minutes that I talked to him so
the ones that just admitted it and
admitted that they wanted to learn that
was you know a breath of fresh air I
also learned that
you need to really part of of
real estate
investing is really
thinking clearly and I've I've always
done this but I think I'm going to do
this even more about the exit strategy
and even if you're you're in your mind
your thought is well I'm just going to
hold this forever I'm never going to
sell this property you still need to
have at least a theoretical theoretical
exit strategy because you don't know you
don't know what's going to happen you
know is it likely that climate change is
going to cause houses on the beach to
get washed away because RI of rising sea
levels I don't know you probably need to
factor that in though as part of your
exit plan that you have if you buy a
beachfront property like that's a worthy
consideration you need to a good
investor thinks about all of those
little details and so I think in the
future I'm I'm definitely not going to
avoid condos these condos were a
fantastic investment for me I mean the
package of four I bought I bought that
package originally for 158,000 I sold
it for 340 now of course there is a lot
of you know repairs and Renovations we
had to do but I also got rental income
during that time period the package of
three I'm that I'm selling hopefully
on Thursday selling for 230 I bought
those for 98,000 originally again great
invest
and they made tons of money they were
cash cows while I had them but I
understand now now I've seen it was
honestly difficult to sell these and
that's just something I'm going to keep
in mind in the future thinking about how
much difficulty might I have what are
the possibilities that this property if
I purchase you know whatever properties
I purchase in the future if I plan to
hold it longterm
I shouldn't just
ignore the the fact that it might be
difficult to sell that is an that is an
immensely important detail that now I
understand I need to think a little bit
different it's not it's not a detail
that I completely ignored before but now
it's a detail that is kind of front and
center in my mind and so long story
short it was a great experience I
learned a lot from it I'm grateful
for the opportunity it was it's another
not on my real estate belt it's
another notch on my investing belt I I'm
proud of those things and I'm thankful
for the opportunities I mean I my
initial purchase in this community was
kind of Lucky like I didn't want to buy
in this community but I didn't have any
other I I wanted to get into real estate
investing and you know it it just made
sense there weren't other options
available that I was interested in
and so it just kind of happened that
that way and now all these years later
here I am saying it was a great
investment I've exited that Community
I've got other other things I'm doing
with that capital and I'm happy I'm
happy with it I'm happy with how it
turned out and and I learned a lot in
the process of buying owning and selling
those units so I hope you guys learned a
lot as well thank you for listening
to me ramble as I always do and and
again if you haven't subscribed to the
show please please hit that subscribe
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episodes all of those good things all my
contact information is in the show notes
I hope you guys have a great rest of the
week wish me luck if you're listening to
this on Wednesday or Thursday morning of
this week December 1st or 2nd wish me
luck I'm supposed to be at the closing
table signing documents at 100 p.m.
selling off three more of these units so
please wish me luck I hope you guys have
luck in your real estate Ventures as
well have a great rest of the week
[Music]