Transcript: Mark Ligos: [00:00:01] You're able to connect to create those touchpoints is just a different animal, but you can't drive a billboard into the parking lot of an Eagles-Giants game and interact with the fans. That's a big component and Greg alluded to it. That's a big component of what we're doing, where we're able to create value for our tourism alliance. Adam Stoker: [00:00:19] Hello everyone and welcome to another episode of the Destination Marketing Podcast. I'm your host, Adam Stoker and as always, we got a great show for you today. Just a reminder for those that may be new to the show, I own an advertising agency that really helps destinations get the right message to the right people at the right time. And part of that process is going to encompass what we talk about today. I've got a really unique vendor in the tourism space that I'm going to have joined me on the show today. I've got Greg Star and Mark Ligos from Carvertise. Guys welcome to the show. Greg Star: [00:00:55] Thanks for having us. Appreciate it. Mark Ligos: [00:00:57] Thanks Adam. Adam Stoker: [00:00:58] Absolutely, we're excited to have you. We've got two of them here, everybody, so I'll be directing my questions a little bit better than I just did when I said, hey guys, welcome to the show. But we'll fix that along the way. So let's start with Greg. Greg, you're the Founder of Carvertise and we're going to get into your story and your background and kind of how you ended up where you are today, but we've got a couple of questions we ask everybody that comes on the show. So first Greg, what is your dream destination? If you could go anywhere in the world, where would it be? Greg Star: [00:01:27] Oh man, that's a great question. There are a lot of places I've never been. I would love to go to like I heard like Saint Petersburg, Russia. I've always wanted to check out. I've never been to Europe, so there are a lot of places in Europe I'd like to go to. Then I'd like to go to what's it called in Wyoming? The Jackson Hall in Wyoming and Yellowstone is another dream. But one of the best parts of being in the tourism industry is just like learning all about the destinations and then just booking there. So like I was just in like a Delray Beach because I knew the Visit the Palm Beach County people and they were like come here and it was great and Tampa. I learned so much about Tampa and how awesome it is. So yeah it's, it's one of the best parts of this job is meeting tourism people and learning about how awesome their destination is. Adam Stoker: [00:02:16] Yeah the only problem is your bucket list just keeps getting bigger and bigger and harder to fill at least that's what I'm finding. Now, Greg, Mark laughed at your answer of Saint Petersburg, Russia. So I'm just going to warn him that his answer better be good if he's going to laugh at someone else's answer. So, Mark, tell me. What is your dream destination? Mark Ligos: [00:02:37] I'm glad you asked him first because it gave me a moment to think about it. Sydney, Australia is number one on the list. Just the idea of going to Australia and it seems like a cool, great place to go. The people seem very chill. I like that about it. So if I had one specific destination and I'm going to keep my bucket list short, it would be Sydney, Australia. Adam Stoker: [00:03:00] Okay, and you know what? Greg didn't laugh at you for that, Greg respects your answer. So, it must have been a good one, Mark. Mark Ligos: [00:03:06] He’s a better man than I am. Adam Stoker: [00:03:09] I would love at another time to dive into those answers a little bit more maybe when we got some more time on the show, but for now that's great. I want to go into maybe each of your favorite trip you've ever been on and why? And let's start with Mark this time. Greg, keep your laughter to a minimum. Mark Ligos: [00:03:26] It's hard to laugh at this one. When I was in college, I played football and as part of an All-Star trip, I got to go to Japan for a week, all expenses paid, paid for by Epson Computers and had an unbelievable week in Japan with 30 other 22-year-olds and played a football game against the team in Japan. So without question, my favorite trip of all time was going to Japan. Johnny Unitas was our coach, which if you're a little bit older you can remember who he was. Adam Stoker: [00:04:00] Yeah. Mark Ligos: [00:04:01] So yeah, that was something, it was just incredible. Adam Stoker: [00:04:05] So that sounds like an amazing trip Mark and it's kind of funny because I don't hear Japan a ton as the dream destination, but it may be the most common answer for favorite trip someone's ever been on. I think Japan might be a little underrated and when people get there, they're kind of blown away. Mark Ligos: [00:04:23] There was so much to do and like every day we would go here, we would go to the gardens, we would go to the mountains, it was just every day was something new and incredible and the history of it is amazing too. It's just 3000 years old, it's the temple, the gardens, it was just incredible. Adam Stoker: [00:04:44] Sounds amazing, awesome. Okay, Greg, how about you? Greg Star: [00:04:46] My favorite trip was Belize. I went there around five years ago and it was just awesome. I mean just great weather, like the people there were awesome, totally changed my outlook on life stuff. It was deep. Adam Stoker: [00:05:02] How did they change your outlook on life? I got to hear that. Greg Star: [00:05:05] This is where the company was like struggling to be honest. Like, we had a good year, but we didn't know if we're going to be able to make payroll and stuff and then you go to like, Belize and like yeah, everyone just like, chilling. Like their definition of work is much different than ours. They work to like, it's a means of living, it's not like they don't they're not living to work. So they're just like, yeah, they're just hanging out on an island, working having fun. That's the mindset. So that changed a lot of perspectives for me. So I really enjoyed that trip. Adam Stoker: [00:05:40] So I gave you a different perspective on kind of an alternate approach to life. Greg Star: [00:05:45] Yes. Adam Stoker: [00:05:46] Interesting. Okay, alright, that's a conversation I'd love to dive deeper into offline when we're not in the middle of the show because I've got other questions, but it's not what we're here to talk about today. So if we could start with Greg and have you give us your brief version of your background and the company history and kind of how you ended up where you are today. Greg Star: [00:06:10] Yeah, So I was in college and I met Mac who's our partner and he had the idea of like, hey, let's put ads on cars and I was senior in college, like no prospects. And I was like, yeah, this seems like a very obvious thing, let's work on it together. Prior to that, I'd been a camp counselor which like I say that like people like what's your worst experience? I was a camp counselor and like camp counselors like a really tough job, like you got to communicate, you've got to motivate people, you've got to deal with administration. It's not like I'm serious when I say that was very good training when I was a camp counselor and then yes, so we started the company in college and then I moved to Delaware to try to pursue it. I took some part-time jobs early on, painted houses, recorded music concerts, tutored people. And yeah, this was like in 2012 and we just kind of struggled our way through getting customers, getting some financing. I say like I blacked out for like three years just trying to like 2014 to 2016 was just like a blur. And but yeah, by that point we finally got a business model down where we're paying people to put ads on cars and then what really shifted for us is when we started partnering with Uber and Lyft drivers because it was like instead of just paying everyday people, what if we paid people who were driving all day with Uber and Lyft. That was kind of like the ah-ha moment where they started really taking off. Then conversely we were also six years in we finally found the tourism industry. We were like, wait a second. There are destinations here that just need to advertise all the time and need to reach people in a different way and need to target specific geography. It’s like on top of that combined with the fact that cars stand out, they’re cool looking and that Uber, Lyft drivers often talk about it's a very travel-oriented channel people take Uber from the airport. All the factors were just combining where we found the tourism industry and then our growth has just taken off exponentially. Adam Stoker: [00:08:12] Awesome. Yeah it's kind of funny I never considered that it may be cheaper than an MBA to become a camp counselor and you actually make a little bit of money for it and it trains you adequately to be a CEO of a company. Right? Greg Star: [00:08:25] Yeah. Yeah well, but for my partner of CEO, I'm co-founder, but yeah a camp counselor is a totally underrated job and if there's that experience on a resume I'm like just talk to me about that. What happened there? Adam Stoker: [00:08:41] Oh that's funny. Okay so you talked about Carvertise and kind of the origin story and I really like that you said you just blacked out for three years while you were just doing everything you could to try to get the company up and running because I think that speaks to the passion as an entrepreneur. I want to talk about why I felt like Carvertise is a super interesting idea for the tourism industry. You guys, and in fact Greg, I think it was recently on the Tourism Media Mayhem Podcast, that's another podcast in the Destination Marketing Podcast Network. And I thought that the topic that you guys discussed would be really interesting to talk to our audience about as well. So the fact that you're taking these vehicles that are already out in the marketplace and you're putting ads for destinations. Right now you're focused on if a destination is trying to pull from a specific market; the vehicles in that market have ads for the destination you're trying to pull them too. Right? And I think that's really interesting. I do want to talk a little bit today about the idea when we had been at a restaurant far too long down in Vegas that we started chatting about the eTourism Summit last year. But before we do, I kind of want to hear a little bit about Mark's background. Mark, tell us a little bit about, obviously, we know you were a big-time ripped college football player that went to Japan to play a football game. But, tell us how that kind of segued into where you are today. Mark Ligos: [00:10:10] Yeah, I never quite achieved ripeness, but I did play football. It actually was kind of a convoluted story, but I graduated from college. I went to law school. I practiced law for about 10 years and then I got pulled over to the Philadelphia Eagles Radio Network working there where I was working with Jimmy Fisher, who's our Director of Business Development and he and I hit it off and became very, very good friends and about at this point it's probably like four or five years ago, he had left the company and started working ultimately with Carvertise and he kept telling me, hey, we got this great thing going, it's awesome. It's a great concept. We would have lunch all the time and he would tell me all about how things were developing. And finally, a couple of years ago, I moved out to California right before I left, I met with Greg and Mac and Jimmy together and they kind of gave me the story and kind of what Greg just told me, we were told us. Ultimately I moved out to California and it was just the perfect time and these guys kept saying all the right things and you could see the progress even back a few years ago. So I was like, yeah, I'm on board. So I came on in June of 2019 from Odyssey, which was an intercom at the time and here I am. It's been an incredible and crazy last 2.5 years. We could talk about the growth of the company, but it's just like tourism is a huge category for us, but there's also entertainment and legal and all these verticals that we're starting to penetrate in. But tourism is definitely one of the ones that's really growing for us. Getting there, starting things, taking off and then the pandemic starting and kind of a lot of category shutting down and able to persevere through that and then come out of it and be where we are today, it's been quite a ride. Adam Stoker: [00:12:15] And your specific role Mark? Mark Ligos: [00:12:18] So I'm the kind of the Director of Sales for the West Coast. So I'm in Los Angeles. I kind of target up and down the West Coast and out to Vegas and a little bit into Arizona and I just kind of handle our sales operations out here. Adam Stoker: [00:12:36] Yeah, yeah. Well, and what's been fun is seeing the growth. You mentioned, hey, we can talk about company growth. Seeing the growth in the tourism industry more and more destinations trying out this concept of utilizing the Uber and Lyft vehicles in the market they're trying to pull from, I think it's been fascinating to watch. Mark, you're in it every day selling the product with different destinations. What sort of applications are you starting to see of the use? Like, what are some of the creative ideas that you've seen destinations use to maximize the value of your product? Mark Ligos: [00:13:11] So I think often it's just creating a presence in a specific market and the creative is always pretty simple, Visit Indie, Visit Tampa Bay and then you make it and then you're able on the car to create an attractive kind of picture where people will see the car, they react to the car, they notice the car. And then if they get in the car, they get marketing materials while they're in the car. So you're, you're creating a presence in the market that you want to reach with creative that says, you know what? Going to Tampa Bay when I'm in Toronto for the winter maybe isn't such a bad idea. That kind of resonates with people. So we consider it active out of home where you're out of home but you're interacting with the people in the market in various different ways. I think that it starts with the creative and making it appealing to people when they see it and they noticed it and they react to it. Adam Stoker: [00:14:04] I like that, active out of home. Greg, did you want to add to that? Greg Star: [00:14:07] Yeah. One new thing we've been doing recently is something called swarms. So let's say to Mark's sample, Visit Tampa is putting cars in Chicago, right? And it's an activation for 8, 12 weeks. What we'll do is we'll send cars to Bears games or we'll send cars to Bulls games or we'll send cars to the Chicago Food and Wine Festival. Right? So what you can do there is not only do you have these Uber, Lyft cars that are driving all around, people are seeing them, they're asking the driver, there talking to them, but the cars are then going to places where the destinations targeted audience is going to. It's a whole new element. So that's been a really popular trend of sending cars for destinations to these events in local cities. Adam Stoker: [00:14:52] Now, can I ask a quick question there Greg. So when these swarms go to an event, like a Bears game or something like that. Do they go and just sit outside the event or they are actually functioning Lyft and Uber drivers to take people to and from those events? Greg Star: [00:15:07] It's both. So we'll do is we'll say, hey Eagles game starts at 1 p.m. Get there at 12 o'clock and just start to get inside the stadium. Like we pay them to go inside the stadium and just start driving around. That's one element. Another element of it is, hey, let's work. We want you to like work an event. Maybe it's like a conference, maybe it's like a meeting planners international conference. And in that case, it's like, hey, go outside the venue and turn your Uber app on and just start accepting rides from people that are going to and from, right? So there's a lot of this like very specific targeting you can do to get the right audience. And then on top of that, we have a digital retargeting service where we actually capture device IDs of people who are around the car and then you can send them digital messages to their phone. So, analytics and tracking is a big part of why we've been able to, not only just get clients in the tourism industry to try it, but they're trying it and they're seeing results and they're growing our presence with us. So, we have a lot of success stories of, hey, let's try a few ad units in this market and then next cycle let's double it, let's triple it. Right? So that's been the story for us. Adam Stoker: [00:16:14] Yeah. So when you consider outdoor advertising as a category, most outdoor advertising for example billboards, things like that, you don't get that kind of data and opportunity to connect with digital. It sounds like you're creating multiple touchpoints through your product, which I think is really interesting. Mark, I know you had something that you wanted to kind of add to that. What can you add there? Mark Ligos: [00:16:38] Yeah, and I think when you mentioned earlier, we were talking about active out of home. I think these swarm events are a perfect example of it where you sent Visit Cooperstown to the New York, Giants Philadelphia Eagles game in New York, sent the car right into the parking lot and the pictures are almost funny because you have a group of Giants fans who kind of swarm around the car and they take their taking pictures of all them around the car and then subsequent to that you have a group of Eagles fans around the car taking pictures of themselves around Visit Cooperstown car. So you have like Philadelphia Eagles fans and New York Giants fans don't get together, but they both love the Visit Cooperstown cars. So you're able to connect, like you talk about touchpoints. You're able to connect to create those touchpoints where it's just a different animal, but you can't drive a billboard into the parking lot of an Eagles-Giants game and they interact with the fans and that's a big component and Greg alluded to it. That's a big component of what we're doing, where we're able to create value for our tourism clients. Adam Stoker: [00:17:42] I like that, I like that. Okay. I think your product has a variety of uses, it sounds like and this idea of the swarm, the new usage of it that's using these swarms for events is another interesting concept. You think about a billboard and you kind of get one shot at him in the location that the billboards are in and you can run a digital billboard campaign and use multiple locations. But Uber and Lyft have the ability to get into a variety of places that billboards can't, right? So if there's no billboard inventory outside of an event, then you don't really have the opportunity for outdoor advertising unless you utilize something like Carvertise. One of the things that I talked about in my New Year's resolution episode that I did, talked about New Year's resolutions every destination should have. One of those is tangible stakeholder support. I think destinations need to do a really good job of supporting the businesses within the destination. A lot of them do it indirectly. But for the business to actually feel that touch and feel that connection, it needs to go a step further. When I was talking to you guys down in Vegas at the eTourism Summit last year, we talked about this idea of what if destinations instead of buying a fleet of cars, I guess they're not buying the fleet of cars, but buying access to the fleet of cars in the fleet of Uber and Lyft drivers in the market they're trying to pull from, what if instead they bought a fleet of cars within their destination and each vehicle had an ad for a different stakeholder within the destination. So that we're informing visitors that have already spent the money to come to the destination, were informing them of the different activities they can do and enhancing their experience in the destination. Tell me a little bit of your thoughts. I know we discussed it in Vegas, but how do you foresee destinations utilizing this type of an idea instead of buying outside of your destination, maximizing their earning potential for the visitors that come in Greg, did you want to start there? Greg Star: [00:19:46] Yeah. And you know, I think part of why I jumped on board to your concept so much is because a lot of what we were hearing is, oh this is a really interesting concept. Hey, do you have any idea how we can reach Uber drivers in our own destination because you get to a new place and you call that Uber and your first touchpoint is with the Uber driver who's driving to the hotel and you're asking them what's going on here, what's there to do around town? That driver is like a negative Nancy. That's not a good look. You know? Like I've had experiences with that. If you could find a way to get in contact with your Uber and Lyft drivers, your rideshare drivers, and you say something like, hey, we'll wrap your car and you'll get paid for it and we'll give you these pamphlets to hand out so that every person you pick up from the airport you're coming here, you're like, hey, check out this restaurant, check out this destination. Maybe the Uber driver themselves didn't know about this stuff. So all of a sudden you're getting access to these centers of influence that are touching the tourists that are coming in and you're also building their excitement, they live there, they feel like they're part of the team. The more stakeholder advertising and influence you can do within your own city, the better. That's a long-term investment. That's not just like a one-off. That's building a culture around your destination of people who are excited to be there, excited to tell tourists about it and excited to see what's going on internally. So I think you touched on something major there, which I think is very forward-thinking of you and I think it's going to be the next kind of pillar of destination advertising and I'm going a little right here, but people talk about government relations, right, stakeholder relations, right? That's a big part of every destination, but that's also marketing, right? You need to market well. Right? And I think the next phase of stakeholder influence is marketing heavily and building relationships heavily in a different way than was previously thought. So, I'm a big fan as you can tell of that concept and I think that utilizing cars and Uber drivers is a chapter in that process. Adam Stoker: [00:21:52] Yeah, I mean, imagine having 100 mini concierges within your destination that can give information about the destination, about the specific stakeholder that's on their vehicle, and now you're turning possible detractors into promoters. I think that's a really, really great way to do more guerilla-type marketing than the traditional, hey, just place an ad and see what happens, which obviously I know there's more to it than that. But, Mark, let's go to you. I know you want to add to that. Mark Ligos: [00:22:22] Yeah, and I think Greg hit on it, you just referenced it. The drivers, they become the big word now is an influencer, the influences on the internet, influencers on Instagram and these guys all become mini influencers in their markets because they're now aware of these places, the museum, the restaurant, the hotel, whatever the case may be, and they become mini influencers in Indianapolis and in Tampa or in Chicago, wherever they are. So that's one, I think real value to it. The other is, and I think we may have talked about this in our initial meetings, there's almost a dual value to in-market marketing where you're going to target the people who are tourists, who are coming in and visiting, but you're also going to just ancillary benefit is you're reaching the people who live there. They're reminded every day, you should go to this restaurant and there is a museum in your city that you should visit. So there's a value on it for the visitors and there's a value to it for the people who currently live there. So I think there's real value in that. Adam Stoker: [00:23:26] Yeah, it's funny so now you're pointing out that you've got a combination of we're adding value to visitors so that they can better navigate the destination, value to locals because they can better utilize the assets that they have around them constantly, and then tangible stakeholder support. It checks a lot of the boxes, right? If I'm a stakeholder and I've asked the question, well, what does the DMO do for me? And then every time I'm driving around town, I see a car with my logo on it, driving around town, it's a much more tangible demonstration of value. It's what I believe and it's so funny because we've talked about this and just to be clear for everybody listening, it's not like we've plugged Relic into this concept and understand how this is an idea that I threw at Carvertise because I just think it's too good to pass up. So I think it's going to be one of the next waves of making sure that you're doing your in-destination advertising correctly and engaging your stakeholders correctly. And with this wave from Destinations International that everybody needs to become a community shared value, this feels like it checks a lot of those boxes. So I'm excited to see where this concept goes with Carvertise and I'm really hoping that I start going to destinations and get into an Uber or Lyft with a with a local stakeholder business on it as time comes on, as time goes on and we travel in the coming year. Greg Star: [00:24:57] Yeah, and we've started to do this a little bit like a City of Newark, New Jersey, making main street campaign, like they're promoting local restaurants, promoting things of that nature. So it's starting to catch on. But yeah, I think we're very early in this potential wave. Adam Stoker: [00:25:12] Well, maybe we need to go speak about it at some of these conferences. Greg, what do you think? Greg Star: [00:25:17] Yeah, you got to say things 10 times. Adam Stoker: [00:25:20] That's right. Well, Mark anything you want to add? Mark Ligos: [00:25:24] No, I think that Greg hit it. It's definitely something that even like our concept, to be honest with you, people need to hear it a few times and kind of get their head around it before that they can really jump into it financially, because at first, you're like, well, I don't know if that really makes sense, but then the more you think about it, it starts to kind of sit with you a little bit, then you're like, that's a really good idea and that's really going to benefit the people. When you advertise, when Visit Indie advertisers in Chicago, their ultimate goal is to help the people, their stakeholders in Indianapolis, and this is another way to directly do that. So, I just think it needs a little bit of kind of like maturation or where people can get their head around it, and then I think then it'll start to take off. Adam Stoker: [00:26:10] Yeah, I absolutely think it will. Greg touched on something earlier that I want to dive a little bit deeper into and that's the analytics that are available. We touched on it, but I'd like to be a little more clear. What can a destination expect in the form of data and analytics from doing a buy with Carvertise? Greg Star: [00:26:27] Yeah, so we built our analytics around like if the tourism is presenting to their board at the end of the year for their annual meeting, what can they show? So it's threefold. One, it's just pictures of the cars like people need to see, it's a very visual medium. So you show great pictures of the cars out and about throughout the town. Then there's the whole data behind that. Right? So you can we have an interactive heat map that you can literally zoom in and see the highest levels of penetration by zip code where the cars have been in the city. So if you're trying to target specific zip codes in Chicago where more higher-income people go, you can see how much reach you got in that market there, right? You can see all the miles that have been driven, you can get a count of how many impressions and eyeballs were on the cars in that area as well. Then additionally we also take surveys of the drivers, right? Like everyone talks to the Uber driver, you get in and you talk. They're smart, they’re entrepreneurial, people say things to them. So we take surveys and we asked some questions that the client will direct us. Did you know that Tampa is a good destination for kayaking? Did you know this? Has anyone asked you about it? Has there been any interaction? So we get a ton of anecdotal feedback and survey data on what people are saying, it's like the year to the ground, which is also very helpful. Right? And then the last point is if you want to go with our retargeting services, we can show click-through rates of how many people clicked on an ad of people who saw a car and then was literally out on their phone and that click-through rate is typically higher than a normal digital ad campaign because of that they've been served a real out of home at first with the car. And then we can also track how many people went to a website, a webpage based on who saw the car as well. So there's a whole suite of analytics products that we provide our clients. Again, it goes back to like the stickiness of why I think people are trying it, but then not just trying it, but expanding and growing and, and continuing to work with us. So that's good because that's where every tourism marketer is like, hey, how are we going to prove this? How do we know what's working? Etcetera. Adam Stoker: [00:28:32] Yeah, I think especially as a traditional medium which technically as I look at Carvertise, outdoors a traditional medium, but what you've done is you've layered on a digital and measurement component that you can't find with a lot of other traditional media. So I think that's really interesting. Mark, were you about to add something? Mark Ligos: [00:28:50] Yeah. And I think Greg can probably actually speak to this more specifically, but we're able to provide case studies and a number of examples of the impact that their campaign had through the use of data. I know we did one for Visit Gulf County, we did another one up in Pennsylvania that showed tremendous growth for the client over the course of their campaign through the use of digital data. Whether it was visits to their website, I think Greg, correct me if I'm wrong. I think they were both examples of increased visits to the website from a specific area that they had targeted. Greg Star: [00:29:22] One of them was more focused on just hotel occupancy. So they just did like, we were their main push in a city like Nashville and it correlated to a 33% increase in hotel bookings. We weren't the only one but we were like the biggest investment in that market for them, right? Then the other one is they put a URL and showed web traffic keyword search and we took a destination Visit Cumberland that they're not that well-known and we put their advertising in big cities, which is very expensive. Right? Normally try to advertise in affiliate to DC and we help put them on the map there figuratively, literally with getting them good results for a very not too expensive. So yeah, the analytics help and it's just the direction things are moving. Adam Stoker: [00:30:09] Yeah, that's a super interesting usage that you're mentioning there with Visit Cumberland. You guys have talked about a lot of interesting stuff today that this is not an endorsement of, hey, everybody needs to go call Carvertise. But my job in bringing products and featuring businesses on my show is to make sure that people are aware of the unique products out there and you guys are offering something that I haven't seen anywhere else in the industry. With this new community shared value push, I feel like there's a ton of value there that really hasn't been utilized correctly, I will say, by a lot of these destinations that might be listening. So if people do want to learn more about you guys, where do they go, what do they do? Greg Star: [00:30:58] Yeah. Check us out at carvertise.com. We have a whole page on our website dedicated to tourism. So you can see a lot of examples of case studies there. Also, connect on LinkedIn. That's the language of business professionals. Were very active. So connect with us on LinkedIn. And we'll see you at conferences. We're going to like 20 conferences this year. So special breaking news. I'm going to announce it here on the Destination Marketers Podcast. We are going to be hosting a basketball game at one of the conferences instead of the usual let's get really -- let's drink, a lot of parties, which is great. Maybe one night we play basketball first and then we go to happy hour after. But the change of scenery for those who want to maybe get some activity and after a day of the conference. So that will be a Carvertise and Relic experience coming to you in 2022. Adam Stoker: [00:31:49] Yeah. Greg and I were talking at the last conference about how much we enjoy pickup basketball. And we were like, why don't we do this? Why don't we do this at one of these conferences? So we're going to -- let's see. We'll post it on The DMPN social pages. We'll post it on the Destination Marketing Podcast social pages. And I'm sure Carvertise will advertise it as well. We'll also send a pre-registration email so that if you're going to a conference and you're wondering if there's going to be a pickup basketball game hosted by Relic and Carvertise that you're aware of and you can bring your shoes. So yeah, I'm excited for that as someone who doesn't drink. It'll be nice to have an activity that I feel a little bit more at home and so that'll be great. Greg Star: [00:32:37] Yeah, definitely. I agree. A lot of people don't drink and it's almost like a side subject, but it's almost awkward if you don't drink like you probably deal with it, but like it's a whole another topic. But like, yeah, I think we should have some fun activities within the industry that are not just all about drinking. So I'm excited about this. Adam Stoker: [00:32:57] We’re pioneers, Greg and Mark. We're pioneers. Mark Ligos: [00:33:00] You’re going to be the twisted ankle crew next time you have your podcast. Adam Stoker: [00:33:04] You know what, I hate to admit, but I have been on crutches several times. Thanks to basketball. Mark Ligos: [00:33:10] You and me both. The older I get it gets worse and worse. Adam Stoker: [00:33:10] Well, awesome. Hey, thanks a lot, you guys. I appreciate your time sharing your expertise, your experience. I think it's been really valuable for our listeners. Really appreciate you coming on. Mark Ligos: [00:33:23] Thanks for having us. Greg Star: [00:33:24] Thanks Adam. Mark Ligos: [00:33:25] Awesome, awesome. Adam Stoker: [00:33:26] And to our listeners. Thank you for listening and if you enjoyed today's episode, please don't forget to leave us a rating or review wherever you listen to podcasts. It always helps us to continue to grow the show and continue to provide these unique bits of information like we did today. Thanks, everybody and have a great week. Sasha Jackson: [00:33:48] Hey everyone. This is Sasha Jackson. I'm with Tourism Media Mayhem. If you've ever had a hard time selecting what media tactics would be best for your destination, we can help you out. We talk about tips and tricks for media planning and buying on our podcast. It's a lot of fun. Myself and my co-host, Josh have a good time arguing over traditional and digital media. So if you want to hear that and also help with your media planning, give us a listen. [End of transcript]
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