Tom: Hello everyone, and welcome in once again to the Talking Puck Podcast.

Tom Callahan, Mike Haynes here with you.

I'm @ Callahan on air on Twitter.

He is at Buster, the dog 33.

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Mike: That's all right.

Tom: Well, that's my goal is that you can't escape Talking Puck now.

Mike: Yes, I love it.

I love it.

I love it.

Tom: I'm for world domination, you know, Pinky and The Brain we're

going to take over the hockey world.

Uh, so Mike, you actually, we were kind of trying to figure out how we were going

to do this pod, and then you got on an awesome rant and I wanted to use it as the

podcast for this, this episode, because.

I, I think you and I, and so I started with this statement.

Hockey wants personalities, the media loves personalities and in a social media

era where things are being shared on Tik Tok on Instagram, Twitter, wherever

you're you're sharing, um, that people are more and more used to putting

themselves out there in these things, just being part of their daily life.

The NHL always said, you know, a lot of people lament, oh, there's

no personalities, nobody talks, you know, everybody's too polite.

Well, Now you're starting to get some players.

And, and we were talking about the all-star competition and, uh, Trevor's

Zegras and the dodgeball costume as Peter LaFleur and the blindfold

and the ... that was a crazy goal.

He scored it blindfolded, but then in a real game, does the scoop the Mike Legg

the lacrosse style, goal going behind the net in Montreal, which was weird, cause

he did it with no fans in the building.

So nobody reacted to it.

Um, but, and the Ducks had that killer passing play from behind

the net earlier this year, the lob and then the batted out of mid air.

That's exciting.

It's fun.

It's skill.

Haven't we been talking about wanting more skill in this game for a while.

What, what's the problem?

Mike: Part of the, part of the problem.

Is the way that national media responds to this.

And I, listen, I listen, watch a lot of the national media and I don't

understand this because I consider myself.

I'm old enough to consider myself old school hockey.

I love the traditions of hockey.

I love the things that people, my age bracket enjoy about the

game, but I also feel like we need more hockey imagination in games.

They look, they look like robots to me.

Sometimes during games, every coach has the same system.

The goalies play almost identical.

Every goalie, it all looks the same.

Every team has a small number of really super talented players and

everybody else's interchangeable.

So this game.

But the thing is when you watch stuff like the all star game, you realize how

much skill these guys have that they're not allowed to use during the games.

And then when they do it, here's my beers where my rant.

I've listened to these national broadcasters, whether on talk

shows or during games or in between periods analysts.

And they, and I can't tell you how many times.

Zegras after the two things that he's done this year that were phenomenal to me, so

fun to watch such great hockey imagination and, and he gets introduced as.

Zegras: Some people like him, some people don't, some people like

what he did, some people don't.

Why are we allowing the people who don't like it to

be included in the conversation.

It should be one of the most exciting, vibrant, entertaining players in our game.

Just did this thrilling thing.

Rather than well there's some people don't like this.

I just think that's such a downer on what the league needs to do

is to allow these young players.

who have this incredible skill to be able to display it, and they should

be able to do it without these guys throwing a wet blanket on them.

. Tom: And these guys look in any walk of life in any office, new, whatever,

wherever your job is, whatever setting you may have been in pre pandemic.

I know a lot of people remote work now, but even people on your zoom meeting.

There is the life of the party.

There is the wet blanket and there's a bunch of people in between, you know,

there's just, there's those people.

There's a reason why we brand some people Karen's and there's a reason

why other people have, you know, all these other different societal

nicknames we've made up for them.

But some people are fun to be around.

Some people, you know, just have that personality, you know,

they're eboullient effervescent.

We love that in and they draw people in.

So.

There are those guys in the NHL.

We just don't hear from them as much.

It's interesting.

This is, well, this is going back to probably 10 years now.

Ryan Ellis did kind of a fun.

Fake video.

Uh, but he, uh, he did this little video and it, I don't even know if it's still

on YouTube, but I just remember the gist of it was he called himself the human

rocket ship, but he was scoring goals on the moon and he had a stack of cash

and he was flipping it out in front of him and he was just having a good time.

He was still a kid then, you know, and he was just having fun.

Internally, that was poo-pooed.

And, uh, he was told to knock it off.

And I don't think that that's in any way.

Good for the game, because you are muting the personality of a guy who

otherwise could help you sell tickets and jerseys and get really what this is.

And, and I had a take about this earlier in the week.

Mike all-star games are for kids.

They're not for the adults, they're for the kids, but the personalities bring

in the kids, the fans of tomorrow, the ones who 10, 20 years from now will

be buying season tickets are the kids.

And how do you get kids?

Have you ever watched a cartoon it's filled with weird noises,

sing songs, and bright colors.

So.

That's what the NHL needs more of.

They need more of this.

Canadians going to attract people to the game.

And when the game itself has played, you and I both love the sport.

We love watching it, but man, nothing brings you out of your seat, like a

crazy skilled goal or an amazing save.

Mike: I, I agree.

And I don't know whether I have this.

I have this theory.

Tell me if you think I'm way off on this.

I think especially Canadians we're so indoctrinated by Don Cherry that he's

gone now, but he had such a belief in this is now hockey has to be in this.

And Saturdays he was it.

The country would stop when Don Cherry would come on in between periods.

Right.

They would just stop and watch.

And I think he had such an impact on commentators who

want to be like Don Cherry.

Now when's in him gone.

I think he impacted a lot more people than you realize of how hockey has to be.

And I think, um, I, and I hear that in commentators, especially when I

listen to commentators from Canada.

And they are, they are the ones more than anybody else, uh, that are willing

to say is what I said earlier, where they go, well, some people don't

like this, you know, some people like it, but there's some people don't.

And I think, I think there's a little bit of that.

Uh, still Don Cherry isms, still pervading over, uh, commentators in Canada

about this, that this is not hockey.

This

is not how hockey should be.

Tom: Yeah, I, and look, I grew up loving a physical tough brand of hockey.

The Sabres used to play that way when I was a kid and

that's what I was exposed to.

But I also got to watch Hockey Night in Canada and I got to watch Don Cherry

and I, I listened to those things too.

And, you know, I think to myself now, The game is changing, fighting is gone.

And it's funny how I used to get excited for fights until I worked for five

years with Stu Grimson and I worked with Wade Belak and I worked with

Jim MacKenzie and I worked with these guys who it was their job to go out

there and fight and talking to them.

Is an eye opening experience.

And it really, it made me realize, okay, that was a point in time for

hockey, but the game's different now.

And so if fighting is on the way out, there's no question

about it to a certain extent.

So is hitting.

I'm not thrilled about that, but that's how it is.

You could still play physical and I think you need to, especially to win in

the playoffs but the game is different.

So now I think I am more of a mind in the last, you know, I

don't know, 10 years or so of.

Okay, well, this is what the sport is.

Now.

We have to focus on growing what it's becoming and making whatever it does

become the best possible product.

And that is, to me, that's the important part.

It's not about fighting for the old ways that are just gone.

It's not about wishing it was yesteryear to me now, Mike, it is about, okay, how

are we going to sell seats tomorrow?

And that is really what it comes down to.

We need, look, people are leaving sports in droves.

Other sports are having this problem too, because the games are too long or

they're boring or they're this or that.

I mean, this is, you know, preservation instinct to a certain extent.

Mike: Yeah.

I think some of it is there's too much politics now.

It's sports too.

I, I wasn't to, I just want to sit down and watch.

I don't want it.

I don't want to read slogans on the back of football players, helmets.

I just want to watch the game and that's some of it, but the good part is.

Allow these guys to use their skill.

And, and the thing that they can do is amazing when it gets tamped down and,

and people saying, well, some people don't like this, when you say that,

which is what you're saying to the fans, that you shouldn't be enjoying.

This, this is not hockey.

And it is, this is what's happening.

I can tell you even on a small scale, Uh, I've been watching, um, high school

hockey, uh, the last seven years.

And it has gone here in Colorado it has gone seven years ago.

It was a blood bath every night.

It was just nothing but bigger kids trying to line up a smaller kid who had his head

down and absolutely killing this kid.

With the USA.

Hockey has done a nice job.

They've taken away that stuff.

Uh, they re made it more penalized and they've really opened up the

game and the high school level.

It's no longer a case where the smaller kids or the skilled

kids didn't want to play.

Cause they're scared to death out there.

And now the games are much more exciting, much more fun.

And that's where the NHL is too.

The, the it's already about the smaller defenseman that can move the puck now.

It's thrilling to watch these guys and they no longer have to be six, three,

you know, 230 pounds and be able to play.

It's great.

And these guys have tremendous skill, but let's stop tamping it down.

Let's celebrate it.

Instead of saying that this isn't hockey, it is hockey.

Now this is where we're at fighting is gone big hits are for the most part

really gone and now it's about the skill.

And to me, I'd rather watch that than two guys going out to mid ice and dropping

the gloves just because they're trying to keep a spot on, on the fourth line.

I give me skill every night.

Gimme, gimme great goals every single night.

Or great saves athletic goaltenders, they're fun to watch to give me that.

And then let's start praising

it instead of putting it down

Tom: and you're right, because I think we have built a culture

where over the years where.

The, the skill guy is often looked on as a hotdog.

Uh, you know, as a show off as, oh, that's bad.

That's not how we do things here.

Why not?

I mean, that is a beautiful and rare thing to have these guys that

have the skill level, even, even so even if you just let every player.

You know, let it hang out there within the confines of playing a

team game, it's still a team game, but they put their skill out there.

How many guys on each team are we talking that have that

elite level ability one or two?

Mike: That's it that's it.

But, but the thing that was don't see though, Tom, and, and, um, I

think in general, if you're just watching games for fans, but you

and I got to see that up close.

I could see it after practices . I could see it.

I remember, I know this is gonna sound crazy, but when, um, when the team first

arrived in Denver, uh, they would allow for office people, broadcasters like me

and even General Manager Pierre LaCroix we would go down on the ice and skate skate

with guys who weren't playing that night.

After the team skate was done, we would go out and skate and you, and you'd had

no oh these are just fourth line guys, a plugger and then you'd see him do

stuff that would blow your mind away.

How much skill those guys have to get to the NHL.

You have to have unbelievable skill to do things, and they don't

get to do it during the games.

It's not their role.

Uh, but there was a lot of guys, Tom, that there are elite there's Kanes and

McDavids and there are guys that are above everybody else, but almost every

guy on an NHL team can do amazing things.

They just aren't allowed to.

It's not their fault.

That's not their role, their third line guy.

They go out there and, you know, for the, for the seven, eight minutes of

hockey and they, you know, they make a couple of hits and get off the ice and

make sure they don't get scored on it.

It's a shame.

and some of that's on the coaches because they, they would rather

win one, nothing than six, five.

Tom: Yeah.

Mike: They, they do.

I Joe Sakic used to say that all the time he go, coaches would scream and

yell at us if we won a game six, five, but it was perfectly fine if we won 1-0.

The fans want to watch a six, five game.

The players want to play the 65, the goalies don't, but the players want

to play a six, five game, everybody, but the goalies want a six, five game

except for the goalies and the coaches.

And so what do we have?

We've got two, one games where it's just, I, you know, I, I dunno, I

gimme, gimme skilled fun goals.

And I think, uh, I think you grow the game more so than that way, but

it starts when the kids are young.

You dump the puck in and get off dump the puck in what, why are you giving

up the puck you're 10 years old, circle back around, make some passes.

Oh, it drives me insane.

It starts early where you let you know, in some, as you said, there's

always some kid, on a youth hockey team that can dangle and skate, but

then he gets yelled at for being the puck hog and other parents are

mad and, you know, I don't know.

I just say, let, let the skill kids do their thing and let the skilled

players in the NHL do their thing.

Cause that's what I think people want to watch and stop putting it down.

Tom: I agree.

I agree.

I don't know that I could put it any better.

So that's a good place to jump off this podcast, but, uh, boy,

great thoughts there, Mike.

And uh, if you want to share your thoughts with Mike and I on Twitter,

Mike is at Buster, the dog 33.

I'm at Callahan on air.

We appreciate you being a part of the podcast and liking and

subscribing following anywhere.

You get your podcasts and also Talking Puck TV on Sunday

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And we are now on Twitch, Facebook, YouTube, LinkedIn, and Twitter.

Mike is done his topics are scrambled.

He's done.

That's it.

The paper's getting tossed.

He's out of gas, Mike good stuff.

And, and we'll have a lot to talk about on the show as well.

Coming up on Sunday nights, uh, trade deadline stuff is not that far away.

And there's a lot of news

Mike: And the game

get going again, little to for the all-star game.

But now, uh, it's uh, you know, when we get.

But boy, it can clog down a little bit, but I think once we start picking up speed

through February and get into March, then, uh, we can really start talking about, I

think of the anxious about positioning, but there's still some playoff

races to be had in the, in the west.

And we'll be keeping an eye on

throughout our shows.

Absolutely.

Tom: All right, everybody.

Thanks for listening.

We'll talk to you on Sunday night.