Transcript:
Melea Hames: [00:00:00] Hi everyone. I just wanted to jump on before we get started and let you know that we had some internet issues with this episode. We've still got great content to share with you but be aware that there may be a couple of spots that aren't as high quality as normal. Let's get into our episode.
You're listening to The Unexpected Adventures in North Alabama Podcast, part of the Destination Marketing Podcast Network.
Welcome back to this week's episode of Unexpected Adventures in North Alabama and thank you for listening. Joining me today is Andrew Leary, Director of Sustainable Tourism and Partnerships at Leave No Trace and Cody Hood, a North Alabama ambassador. Welcome to the podcast guys.
Andrew Leary: [00:00:46] Hey, how are you?
Cody Hood: [00:00:47] Happy to be here.
Melea Hames: [00:00:48] Great. I'm excited to talk more about Leave No Trace and what this program offers North Alabama. I'd like to start by telling our listeners a little bit about our guests and what they do. Andrew, will you take a minute to explain, Leave No Trace and then Cody you can follow with what you do as a North Alabama ambassador.
Andrew Leary: [00:01:06] Yeah, absolutely. So, at Leave No Trace, I manage the organization's strategic education partnerships that exist in the travel and tourism industry and we see that as a really meaningful and in our opinion, mission-critical way to reach people who are spending time in the outdoors with effective, responsible recreation know-how and the information they need to be really great stewards of the outdoors no matter how they're enjoying being outside.
Melea Hames: [00:01:37] Cool, Okay. Cody?
Cody Hood: [00:01:40] So I, as an ambassador, get outdoors and share on Instagram, social media, mainly the forest that's closest to my house which would be Bankhead, but several of the outdoor places to visit in North Alabama and just let people experience history and the beauty that is in our state.
Melea Hames: [00:02:00] Cool, that is so neat both of y'all's roles here and you're both involved in such a great cause that is beneficial to North Alabama and the tourism industry here. Now, in a previous podcast, we talked with another North Alabama ambassador Robert Posey about how Visit North Alabama got started would Leave No Trace. So I kind of want to recap that a little bit. It goes back to 2020 when a lot of new to the outdoors people were getting outside for fresh air, for exercise, and just to get out of the house. So Robert who visited a lot of our waterfalls and everything had noticed that at Mardis Mill Falls, popular waterfalls near Blountsville, that there was a lot more trash out there. So he and his daughter just started picking up some trash and he said he noticed people started joining in as they were picking up trash. So then he reached out to me and asked, what can we do? Can I do some videos to kind of educate people?
So as an organization, we talked about it, we thought about ways that we could do and so we reached out to Leave No Trace and well the rest is history. We became partners with them. Okay, so I've got some questions for Andrew and Cody. Andrew, what are some of the Leave No Trace principles?
Andrew Leary: [00:03:13] Yeah, that's a great question. Well, there are 7 Leave No Trace principles and some of those principles include, planning ahead and preparing. Some of those principles include respecting wildlife and being considerate of other people in the outdoors. Really, the 7 principles represent a set of guidelines that help people make responsible decisions when they spend time outdoors. These 7 principles are based on a scientific understanding of how negative impacts occur as a result of recreation and leisure, but they also represent a really easy simple to action that anyone can take to reduce negative ecological as well as social impacts that really are unknowingly taking place when people spend time outdoors.
Leave No Trace has a tremendous impact to help educate and inform people who just simply didn't know the impacts were occurring and that's the majority of impacts that are taking place, trash and litter that you see out there, impacts to vegetation. Most people are not going out and purposely just dumping their trash into a pristine waterfall area. For instance, it's micro trash and other things that get blown away. They fall out of a pocket. Oh, I thought it had put it in my bag, but it didn't end up in my bag. So our 7 principles helped to inform people and make them a bit more prepared so that they can help take any action to help be a steward of the area that they’re visiting.
Melea Hames: [00:04:43] Yeah. And I remember when we first started talking about Leave No Trace and everything and that was encouraging to know that the majority of people really just don't know and that the goal then is to educate and to help people become aware of some of these things that they just maybe like you said, just did not know. So, Cody, this question is for you. How do you find the balance between enjoying the places you're visiting while also leaving no trace and making sure to keep the natural beauty preserved?
Cody Hood: [00:05:14] So some of the trails that I visit, what garbage I do see I try to pick up as Andrew was saying a lot of times it's a little micro trash. You pull apart the wrapper on your granola bar and the little piece of wrapper comes off and it blows out your hand or you think you put in your pocket and it blows away. A lot of the areas I've actually been surprised as of light as much foot traffic that there has been hasn't had as much garbage as what you would think that there is from people visiting and hiking out in these areas.
Some of the problems here is more local kids riding around throwing out garbage as they ride in the back roads. Some of the other big ones. Another one would be making sure you contain the campfire and put it out. Well as you're leaving, minimize your campfire impacts. We had a few years back where the area known as Big Tree had caught on fire from somebody's campfire and burned a good bit of acreage out in Bankhead. And then one of the other issues is to leave what you find. There's the saying, take only pictures, leave only footprints.
Melea Hames: [00:06:21] Yeah, and that's a good point. Yeah, I appreciate that. So we've talked a lot about like not throwing trash down and cleaning up after yourself and then that accidental trash as being one of the principles there. But another principle that I wanted to touch on that I feel is very important is staying on the trails and just sticking to what's already there. Andrew, could you speak to that a little bit?
Andrew Leary: [00:06:46] Yeah, absolutely. Trails are such an amazing feature of the way that we can explore the outdoors whether it's on foot, on wheels, with bicycle or maybe ATV where it's allowed, certainly horseback, things like that. But really what trails represent this amazing feature of the outdoors which is this purposely built pathway that is meant to support a very high volume of human traffic. What that does is trails themselves are we call them durable surfaces, so they're resistant to the impacts from a lot of people or animals or tires going over them and they're resilient, meaning it takes a lot to be able to change a trail. You can certainly do it.
But generally speaking, trails are this really great durable service that allows us to get to different areas. So maybe to explore that really great waterfall or maybe to go kind of ridge-to-ridge to check out different places and it allows us to get up steeper inclines and they're purposely built. I think trails, there are some places where off-trail travel is allowed. It's encouraged in a lot of places in the US, but there are definitely some areas certainly in North Alabama where off-trail travel can be a safety hazard too. With the cave networks that have an overgrowth of vegetation around them, certainly the edge of a cliff band or an amphitheater or something like that.
So staying on trial from one aspect is there to help mitigate safety issues that could turn into a really big emergency really quickly if people aren't paying attention. And I mentioned it earlier on, but I think secondly the greatest feature that the trail can offer us is that it allows everybody who wants to spend time in the outdoors the ability to do so without harming the nature that's going on on either side of the trail, so the vegetation, the trees, the soil, things like that. Again, because trails are purposely built, they’re compacted, they're meant to be durable. So, especially North Alabama has a lot of places where if you stay on the trails you're going to get a great experience in the outdoors from the trail and it's a great feature and something to take advantage of.
Melea Hames: [00:09:03] Yeah, I'm glad you said that about the caves because I remember when we were working on the principles and making it North Alabama-specific. One of the things that we uncovered in the research was that there are over 4,000 discovered caves in North Alabama, which makes it a caving hot spot. So, that's a good reason right there to stay on the trail because you just never know what you might find. So Andrew, how do we know then what is an established trail?
Andrew Leary: [00:09:32] Yeah, that's a great question. Most established trails, ones that are purposely built by land managers are going to appear on maps. They're going to be at the trailhead sign wherever you park your vehicle. They might be on some of those apps that you use for finding trails or finding hikes, things like that. You can also identify them because they generally look like they've been created by humans on purpose. Sometimes trail builders will actually use machines to cut, they call it cutting tread. So there are some characteristics that you can utilize to understand this is where I should be, there might be signage that points you along the way. There are a lot of trails that get created when people hike off main trails. So when they trample vegetation, when they compress the soil underneath and it basically makes it look as if there's a trail here. But really it's an undesignated trail. It was created because people were venturing off.
Cody, I bet you see a lot of those in Bankhead just because of all the different waterfalls that are probably not along the main trail.
Cody Hood: [00:10:32] Yeah, so the vast majority of the waterfalls in Bankhead are all off-trail. They just need to try to, if you're going to hike to that waterfall to try to stay on that social trail and let's not make six or seven other little trails go into this one waterfall. Maybe you could just stay on the one social trail that's already been somebody established.
Melea Hames: [00:10:53] Okay. Yeah, that's some good advice to know because we know that there are a lot of things to see, a lot of waterfalls, you mentioned that Bankhead is the land of a thousand waterfalls. So there's a lot out there to see, so thanks. Another principle that I'd like to talk about that's kind of, I guess it could be somewhat controversial is sharing the outdoors. I know we all have different ways that we like to experience the outdoors. Some people like to listen to music when they're outdoors, some people like the sounds that you hear when you're outdoors, the birds, the waterfall rushing, the creeks running or whatever. Andrew, could you talk a little bit about the sharing the outdoors principle?
Andrew Leary: [00:11:39] Yeah. So sharing the outdoors or being considerate of others is another way that it might be phrased. But the basic idea is that everybody who is outdoors is there for a reason and your reason for being outdoors may not be the same as my reason, or Cody's reason, or Melea’s reason. So as a sign of respect, as a sign of consideration for other people, we want to acknowledge that somebody how they're experiencing outdoors is for the most part it's appropriate, we want to give them the benefit of the doubt.
So for example, my version of experience in the outdoors may not include music, but somebody else's version of experience in the outdoors might include music. The outdoors is a big enough space where if I'm being impacted by somebody else, I'm going to first start with myself and say how can I change my situation. So that's one way just to cope kind of with the things that may come up because for some people music is a coping mechanism and there are a lot of people who need that external audio or sound as a part of their experience and that's something I think we should respect.
But at the same time when we're like planning ahead for how can we spend time in the outdoors together especially around music if music is something you enjoy, using headphones is a great way that you can do that. And there's so much technology out there that allows us to use headphones with a wire, without a wire, something that goes over our ears, something that goes in our ears. So rather than taking the Bluetooth speaker to play music that's hanging off your backpack, consider using headphones so that you can still enjoy the outdoors in the way that you like it, but then somebody else who's really there to hear nature, to hear the birds, to experience the rushing waterfall sounds, they can have their experience as well.
Melea Hames: [00:13:36] Okay, Cody, would you like to add anything to that?
Cody Hood: [00:13:39] I mean just kind of like he said about just using headphones. If you feel the need to listen to music, just be respectful of the other people out there. Not everybody also wants to hear the same music that you may be playing as well or care to hear whatsoever.
Melea Hames: [00:13:56] It's true. That's a good point, yep. Earbuds, headphones, they've been, they've been game changers for us for a long time. Huh? Okay. Well another topic that I would like to talk about that kind of goes along the lines of being respectful and sharing the outdoors is geotagging and it has been something that has come up, I've seen it on different pages that I follow. Some people are completely against it and some people are completely for it. So I'd really like to get your thoughts Andrew about the positives of geotagging.
Andrew Leary: [00:14:34] You know, I think there are so many benefits that can come from geotagging it. It's really technology has given us, given everybody such access to information and geotagging, in particular, can be a great way to help align, help plan trips, maybe help align your expectations. What I mean by that is that grain of salt, what you see on social media and the geotag may not be what you see when you are actually there. A lot of images don't show the crowds, they aren't showing you things that are behind the camera. But the geotag can still show you these beautiful places, maybe a waterfall that you're interested in seeing.
So we can use that as a planning tool and I think previous generations and I include myself in they're using guidebooks and things like that to plan our trips with technology and how accessible things are. Geotagging is a way that a lot of people plan their trips and do it in a way that feels comfortable and safe for them. So I think responsibly geotagging certain areas, especially if the content that's being shared is maybe an inspirational picture or something that's great about a location, but it's also promoting stewardship and Leave No Trace and encouraging others to take care of these areas.
All those things combined can have a really positive impact on the person who is seeing that geotagged image and be like, oh this is where I want to go, this is what I wanted to check out. But I'm going to remember to stay on the trail because of safety or I'm going to remember to bring my headphones or other things so I can be considerate of the other people who I know we're going to be on the trail even if this image is showing absolutely nobody on the trail.
Melea Hames: [00:16:21] Yeah. And so what would be some of the reasons against geotagging, then?
Andrew Leary: [00:16:27] I think the reasons against geotagging at this point if I'm basing it off of scientific empirical research that exists, it's pretty subjective. So what I mean by that is a reason for not geotagging might be because I hear this a lot in the tourism industry is this idea of over-tourism, there are too many people visiting, too many people are finding out about the secret spot that once used to be secret but now is overrun with a lot of people.
So I think it's the reasons against geotagging I think might be just as subjective as the reasons for it. But I do think that embracing it as a technology in a way to help promote stewardship and Leave No Trace in areas rather than rejecting it, is something that invites other people to be a part of this stewardship movement, especially a place like North Alabama and all these places that maybe have seen a big uptick since the pandemic and a lot of people visiting as a means to get out of their homes and spend time outdoors.
I think there can be so many benefits even if there are a lot of perceived personal kind of negative connections with geotagging or what the perception is that geotagging is bringing into an area. Again nobody's studying this. I'll say it hasn't been researched yet because I know there are some kinds of questions that are floating out there, but there's nothing been published to say that as a result of geotagging this place is seeing more impacts. A lot of people think that but I think benefit of how can we use this technology is something for good to promote stewardship in North Alabama and encourage people to Leave No Trace while they're enjoying the outdoors.
Melea Hames: [00:18:13] Yeah, you mentioned you know people getting outdoors in North Alabama and that was one aspect of our tourism industry that just flourished during the pandemic. Our campgrounds, our outdoor locations, outdoor attractions, people really did go out to those quite a bit. Cody, can you speak on how we could be more responsible with geotagging especially from a tourism standpoint?
Cody Hood: [00:18:39] Well, I mean, you know, I basically see it as, one, the information is already out there. Some of your high use areas, maybe two, some of the people that have been to these areas several times maybe lay off going there for somebody to do that hasn't been there can't go to. So if we can kind of educate the people cleaning up your garbage and being respectful that would have about as well, just trying to educate people to some of these principles.
Melea Hames: [00:19:06] Yeah. And I think that's what Leave No Trace at its essence is about education that that's the root of all of this is just telling people what they don't know so that when they go outdoors that they can be better stewards and do the outdoors in the best way possible. So. okay, cool. Yeah, because I'm social media manager as you all know, so when I'm looking for user-generated content, I mean of course things in North Alabama, I pretty much know where they are by looking at them, but it's kind of hard that if you want to share something if it doesn't have a location and you're not sure what the location is. That's kind of been a struggle from my standpoint of, it's hard to just share something that people like, oh, where is this, where is it? I don't know, I just thought this picture was cool, but the person didn't tag where it was.
So from a tourism standpoint social media manager, it is difficult not knowing. But like y'all both have said just knowing these principles and being responsible for your actions.
Andrew Leary: [00:20:18] From Leave No Trace’s perspective, we always ask people to think about how can you geotag responsibly. And so one example of that might be, let's say there's a really great waterfall in the state park. So rather than tagging the waterfall itself, if that's something that doesn't feel right to you, but you still want to kind of promote what this is or promote the area because it's meaningful for you, then maybe consider promoting the state park instead because people who visit state parks are funding state parks.
So it's a good thing when people visit state parks. You don't have to put the exact location if that doesn't feel comfortable for you. You can generalize that. You can put a region, you can say North Alabama. There are a lot of different ways that you can be pro-stewardship, and pro-responsibility when thinking about geotagging. If putting the exact location doesn't feel good to you but you still would like to somehow indicate where you are.
Melea Hames: [00:21:16] Yeah. And that's a good point. Yeah. I appreciate that. From all of your work with Leave No Trace, what is one piece of information you've learned that would be beneficial for tourists or people around nature to know? Andrew, you can start and then Cody can follow.
Andrew Leary: [00:21:30] I mean it starts with the first principle of Leave No Trace which is planning ahead and preparing or knowing before you go is another way to say it. But the more that you can prepare yourself for where you're going and what to expect and align your expectations to that, I think the more successful you're going to be and the more fun you're going to have. So that means like where am I going to park and what am I going to do if the parking lot is full? Do I have another place that I'd like to go to instead because parking along the side of the road is dangerous?
Am I going to rely on a digital map on my phone and if so, I know there's not a lot of cell phone coverage in some parts of North Alabama. So maybe I shouldn't expect their cellphone coverage in some of these really wooded, waterfall-heavy areas. So what's my backup plan for a different type of map? Is the place I want to go the place that my kids or my family or the people I'm with, also go there? Are they beginners and I an intermediate? Things like that. So this idea of planning your trip ahead really makes all the difference and you don't have to do months and months of planning. Of course, you could do that, a lot of people plan their trips in that way.
But really from our perspective at Leave No Trace, it's not binary. It's not. You're doing it or you're not. It's every little bit makes a difference. So if you plan for six months in advance, great. If you plan two hours ahead of the time you're going out, great. That's two hours more than you might have done otherwise. So any little bit of planning makes a difference. And you can research where you're going through the internet, through social media, through blog posts, through a lot of different things, guidebooks. There's so much information out there. Just spend a little bit of time doing it to understand where you're going. So you don't get yourself into certainly any kind of safety situation.
But again, so your expectations are aligned so that you can have a really great time spending time with the people that you love with your family the outdoors and walk away feeling satisfied.
Melea Hames: [00:23:35] Cool. Cody?
Cody Hood: [00:23:36] And then I kind of bounce off on what Andrew said about the plan ahead and prepare. It also helps to let a friend or family member know where you want them to be. Maybe a timeframe you expect to kind of feedback. We have it from time to time where people do get lost out in Bankhead. People sometimes don't even have an idea of where the family member was supposed to be, they were just in Bankhead, what's 180,000 plus acres they try to cover.
So it helps to let people know even as many times as I've been on the experiences I am out there, I let my wife know some of my friends that when they're going to the experiences they are, they'll message me and let me know, hey, I'm going to be in this area. So if something does happen, it kind of narrows it down.
Melea Hames: [00:24:21] Okay. Yeah, those are definitely good tips. I like what Andrew said about not relying on cell phone service and Cody, you've talked about that hiking in Bankhead that there's no service out there so you cannot rely on a phone. I know that at the Land Trust Trails, they have like a picture of the map of the trail and so take a picture of that, snap a picture of that on your phone and that way you've got it because you're not going to be able to look it up on a website in most of these outdoor locations. So those are very good points. Thanks.
Okay. This week on Facebook, I asked our followers what questions they wanted to be answered and this was the winning question. How can someone get involved with Leave No Trace?
Andrew Leary: [00:25:08] Well, the easiest way is to start to learn about the 7 principles of Leave No Trace, if you aren't familiar with them already and start incorporating those into the outdoor experiences that you have. Again, it's not an all-or-nothing deal. You don't have to do all 7 principles or it doesn't count. Start with planning ahead and preparing and then work through the other principles and build those guidelines into how you can be more responsible when you recreate outside.
Again, most impacts occur unknowingly to us. We're not aware that they're going on. We don't see them. We don't see the impact that we cause today because it shows up tomorrow. So I'd say start with the 7 principles of Leave No Trace. And if you're already there, if you're looking for more ways to get involved, the Leave No Trace Organization, it's certainly a great place where you can learn more like what are the next steps, how can I volunteer, and how can I get involved with things that are going on in North Alabama or wherever you call home. So you can visit lnt.org, that’s the website for the Leave No Trace Organization.
Melea Hames: [00:26:10] Okay, great. Thank you. It's amazing to know that the tourism industry is doing so much to make sure nature is protected while also being enjoyed. Now for our listeners out there, where can they find you on social media, Cody?
Cody Hood: [00:26:25] The biggest one being Instagram. It would be @ensaneoutdoors, insane with an e.
Melea Hames: [00:26:31] Okay. And, Andrew, where can we find Leave No Trace on social media?
Andrew Leary: [00:26:36] You can find the Leave No Trace Organization across all the major social media platforms, certainly Instagram, Facebook, LinkedIn, YouTube. Just go ahead and search for Leave No Trace Organization and you should be able to find it. No problem.
Melea Hames: [00:26:50] Great, North Alabama social platforms are linked in the description. Of course, you can find us at visit North Alabama on Instagram, Facebook, TikTok, LinkedIn, Pinterest, all of it. Thanks for joining us. And we'll be back next time with more about North Alabama's adventures.
This has been another episode of The Unexpected Adventures in North Alabama Podcast, part of the Destination Marketing Podcast Network hosted by Melea Hames and produced by Relic.
[End of transcript]
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