1 00:00:02,939 --> 00:00:05,819 Narrator: You're listening to the humans of DevOps podcast, a 2 00:00:05,819 --> 00:00:09,449 podcast focused on advancing the humans of DevOps through skills, 3 00:00:09,479 --> 00:00:13,829 knowledge, ideas, and learning, or the SK il framework. 4 00:00:17,250 --> 00:00:18,810 Dominic Church: I can be an expert in my field, I might know 5 00:00:18,810 --> 00:00:20,640 more than anybody else in the whole world, but I don't know at 6 00:00:20,640 --> 00:00:25,680 all. So I want to continue moving towards that expertise. 7 00:00:25,680 --> 00:00:27,840 But you don't have to be an expert to be a continuous 8 00:00:27,840 --> 00:00:30,630 learner. You just have to be willing to continue. 9 00:00:33,720 --> 00:00:36,300 Jason Baum: Hey, everyone, it's Jason Baum, Director of Member 10 00:00:36,300 --> 00:00:40,680 experience at DevOps Institute. And this is the humans of DevOps 11 00:00:40,680 --> 00:00:45,420 podcast. Welcome back for another week. Glad you could 12 00:00:45,420 --> 00:00:51,360 join us. Thanks for making it. So today, we are going to have a 13 00:00:51,390 --> 00:00:55,380 great conversation about continuous learning. And 14 00:00:55,380 --> 00:00:59,220 continuous learning is one of those things that you hear quite 15 00:00:59,220 --> 00:01:02,400 a bit about, I feel like it's, it's sometimes people just kind 16 00:01:02,400 --> 00:01:06,360 of cough it up to being a buzzword, you know, to get get 17 00:01:06,360 --> 00:01:11,850 their teams up skilled and on pace to be the best, best selves 18 00:01:11,850 --> 00:01:14,310 they can be for the workforce. But there's obviously more to 19 00:01:14,310 --> 00:01:18,060 continuous learning than just that. And it's a way of life for 20 00:01:18,060 --> 00:01:23,070 many, it's a mentality. And here to discuss the topic with me, 21 00:01:23,280 --> 00:01:25,980 and to educate me because this is something I would like to 22 00:01:25,980 --> 00:01:30,090 learn more about, I would not define myself as a continuous 23 00:01:30,090 --> 00:01:34,590 learner. I think many of us feel like they wish they could be, 24 00:01:34,920 --> 00:01:38,610 and might not have the time at least that's how I feel. So I'm 25 00:01:38,640 --> 00:01:41,760 really excited to talk about this topic today with my guest, 26 00:01:41,790 --> 00:01:45,690 Dominic church. And Dominic is the regional vice president for 27 00:01:45,690 --> 00:01:49,980 K 12 sales in the Eastern US with Instructure. And prior to 28 00:01:49,980 --> 00:01:52,620 that role, he was the Regional Director of Sales for Florida 29 00:01:52,650 --> 00:01:56,010 and the Mid Atlantic states. Before joining before joining 30 00:01:56,040 --> 00:01:59,790 instructor, Dominic served the Broward County Public Schools, 31 00:02:00,030 --> 00:02:02,760 which is the sixth largest school district in the nation. 32 00:02:03,150 --> 00:02:06,690 He was a teacher, instructional coach, school administrator. And 33 00:02:06,690 --> 00:02:09,810 then finally, the district supervisor over instructional 34 00:02:09,810 --> 00:02:13,530 materials, and digital integrations. Outside of work, 35 00:02:13,530 --> 00:02:17,160 Dominic can be found spending time with his family, playing 36 00:02:17,160 --> 00:02:20,700 and listening to music. By the way, everybody loves music on 37 00:02:20,700 --> 00:02:24,660 this podcast, and also experimentations and cooking and 38 00:02:24,660 --> 00:02:28,650 geeking out over coffee, which is one of my favorite topics. 39 00:02:28,680 --> 00:02:32,370 And we will certainly address at the end of the podcast. Dominic, 40 00:02:32,400 --> 00:02:34,140 thank you so much for joining us. Welcome. 41 00:02:34,439 --> 00:02:35,879 Dominic Church: It's such a pleasure to be here. Jason. 42 00:02:35,879 --> 00:02:36,419 Thank you. 43 00:02:37,169 --> 00:02:39,359 Jason Baum: And are you ready to get human? 44 00:02:39,810 --> 00:02:41,910 Dominic Church: I am. Great. 45 00:02:41,939 --> 00:02:44,459 Jason Baum: So let's just dive in. The first thing we usually 46 00:02:44,459 --> 00:02:49,439 like to do, when we have a very focused topic is just define it 47 00:02:49,829 --> 00:02:53,429 for the listeners. And so maybe you could explain a little bit 48 00:02:53,429 --> 00:02:55,859 the concept of what continuous learning is 49 00:02:55,889 --> 00:02:58,919 Dominic Church: absolutely. For me as somebody that spent a good 50 00:02:58,919 --> 00:03:01,229 portion of my career working directly in the field of 51 00:03:01,229 --> 00:03:05,519 education. Now, sort of tangentially as somebody that 52 00:03:05,519 --> 00:03:08,369 sells into the field of education, have a lot of 53 00:03:08,369 --> 00:03:11,159 experience with folks talking about things like lifelong 54 00:03:11,159 --> 00:03:14,279 learners. But um, to me, continuous learning really is 55 00:03:14,279 --> 00:03:19,739 about having a state of mind where you are both intentional 56 00:03:19,769 --> 00:03:24,749 about what you desire to learn, but also accepting of new 57 00:03:24,749 --> 00:03:27,179 information as it comes along, and how it might apply to the 58 00:03:27,179 --> 00:03:32,189 things that you already know. So the connection between just the 59 00:03:32,189 --> 00:03:36,089 everyday experiences that you have, and where you are versus 60 00:03:36,089 --> 00:03:39,779 where you might want to go. And also being willing to sort of 61 00:03:39,779 --> 00:03:44,159 let the learning take you places where it may not be intentional. 62 00:03:44,369 --> 00:03:48,899 You know, in my own career, I will talk in a bit I'm sure, you 63 00:03:48,899 --> 00:03:53,279 know, I thought I was working towards one goal. And my 64 00:03:53,279 --> 00:03:55,379 continuous learning actually took me in a totally different 65 00:03:55,379 --> 00:03:58,559 direction. Like here I am doing something that I never really 66 00:03:58,559 --> 00:04:03,329 formally studied for. But because I was always willing to 67 00:04:03,329 --> 00:04:08,729 sort of take in new information and find a way to apply it to my 68 00:04:08,729 --> 00:04:12,539 own personal life and the things that I found interesting. You 69 00:04:12,539 --> 00:04:16,049 know, I've had multiple opportunities to do just very 70 00:04:16,049 --> 00:04:17,429 different and interesting things. 71 00:04:18,899 --> 00:04:20,549 Jason Baum: We interview some very smart people on this 72 00:04:20,549 --> 00:04:24,209 podcast, which is great for me because I get to continuously 73 00:04:24,209 --> 00:04:30,089 learn myself. And someone, actually, several people pointed 74 00:04:30,089 --> 00:04:34,289 out to me, I think through this podcast, that life is not really 75 00:04:34,289 --> 00:04:38,879 linear, you know that your experiences are what makes you 76 00:04:38,999 --> 00:04:42,749 and you may set off on one path, like you said, and you find 77 00:04:42,749 --> 00:04:45,929 yourself going in a completely opposite direction, a whole 78 00:04:45,929 --> 00:04:48,269 different place that you never plan for in your life and then 79 00:04:48,269 --> 00:04:53,099 it ends up somewhere else. And so as you're talking about 80 00:04:53,099 --> 00:04:56,879 continuous learning that that popped into my head, that it 81 00:04:56,879 --> 00:05:01,679 isn't necessarily you know, one straight line To get from A to 82 00:05:01,679 --> 00:05:06,329 B, is, is there a difference between continuous learner and a 83 00:05:06,329 --> 00:05:07,529 lifelong learner? 84 00:05:08,580 --> 00:05:12,540 Dominic Church: I think lifelong learning really is about having 85 00:05:12,540 --> 00:05:17,790 a vision, or a mission statement for yourself around, hey, like, 86 00:05:17,820 --> 00:05:20,340 I don't ever want to stop learning new things. That's, 87 00:05:20,370 --> 00:05:24,150 that's to me what when we talk about lifelong learning, 88 00:05:24,780 --> 00:05:27,060 continuous learning is a little bit more intentional, it's a 89 00:05:27,060 --> 00:05:30,420 little bit more of a mindset shift for people to really 90 00:05:30,420 --> 00:05:33,390 absorb all the things that they're encountering, whether 91 00:05:33,390 --> 00:05:37,380 it's watching videos on YouTube, or reading articles online, or, 92 00:05:38,220 --> 00:05:41,850 you know, new books that they might happen to read, how do 93 00:05:42,060 --> 00:05:47,490 those things connect to, you know, your overall goals and 94 00:05:47,490 --> 00:05:51,270 your personal missions and visions? I think you can be a 95 00:05:51,270 --> 00:05:53,640 lifelong learner without being a continuous learner, but you 96 00:05:53,640 --> 00:05:55,980 can't really be a continuous learner without being a lifelong 97 00:05:55,980 --> 00:05:56,250 learner. 98 00:05:57,720 --> 00:06:01,380 Jason Baum: Is there a passion that you need to have to be a 99 00:06:01,380 --> 00:06:04,860 continuous learner? Like, I feel like for myself, it's hard to 100 00:06:04,860 --> 00:06:06,300 get motivated. Sometimes. 101 00:06:06,929 --> 00:06:08,489 Dominic Church: I think the passion really has to be around 102 00:06:08,489 --> 00:06:14,819 curiosity, and just like wonderment, and a passion for 103 00:06:16,379 --> 00:06:20,279 people and things and an acknowledgement that you don't 104 00:06:20,279 --> 00:06:25,439 know everything. Oftentimes, we become experts in a particular 105 00:06:25,439 --> 00:06:29,909 field. And, you know, you get to that level of expert and some 106 00:06:29,909 --> 00:06:33,929 experts, stop. But most experts recognize that the more they 107 00:06:33,929 --> 00:06:38,489 know, the more they don't know. And so I think that's where that 108 00:06:39,689 --> 00:06:44,039 intentionality comes in. Like, yes, I can be an expert in my 109 00:06:44,039 --> 00:06:46,019 field, I might know more than anybody else in the whole world, 110 00:06:46,019 --> 00:06:49,649 but I don't know it all. So I want to continue moving towards, 111 00:06:50,189 --> 00:06:52,949 you know, that expertise, but you don't have to be an expert 112 00:06:52,949 --> 00:06:55,769 to be a continuous learner, you just have to be willing to 113 00:06:55,769 --> 00:06:56,879 continue to learn. 114 00:06:57,810 --> 00:06:59,610 Jason Baum: What would you say are the main benefits of 115 00:06:59,610 --> 00:07:00,570 continuous learning, 116 00:07:01,530 --> 00:07:03,480 Dominic Church: that that life can take you in a whole lot of 117 00:07:03,480 --> 00:07:07,410 different directions, that there's excitement, around the 118 00:07:07,410 --> 00:07:11,490 unexpected, about learning something new, about letting 119 00:07:11,490 --> 00:07:15,630 that learning take you to a different place. I started my 120 00:07:15,630 --> 00:07:19,860 career as an elementary music teacher. That was, by the way, a 121 00:07:19,860 --> 00:07:23,580 different thing. For me, I studied to be a high school band 122 00:07:23,580 --> 00:07:26,970 director, that was that was my passion in college. The job 123 00:07:26,970 --> 00:07:30,060 wasn't there. And I decided to, you know, take the first job 124 00:07:30,060 --> 00:07:33,510 that I could get, and I fell in love with it. So that was like 125 00:07:33,510 --> 00:07:35,970 the the first thing in my professional career, just 126 00:07:35,970 --> 00:07:38,910 understanding that just because you intend to do something 127 00:07:38,910 --> 00:07:41,670 doesn't mean that that's going to work out or be the best 128 00:07:41,670 --> 00:07:46,350 possible thing for you. As I look back. You know, if if I 129 00:07:46,350 --> 00:07:49,320 hadn't taken that leap of faith to do something that was 130 00:07:49,320 --> 00:07:52,380 tangentially related to what I wanted to do, but not 100% 131 00:07:52,380 --> 00:07:55,290 related, I wouldn't even be close to where I am today, I 132 00:07:55,290 --> 00:07:57,450 might be the world's greatest high school band director. But 133 00:07:57,450 --> 00:08:01,680 instead, you know, my career has weaved in bobbed through a 134 00:08:01,680 --> 00:08:05,640 number of different educational related things. And then sales 135 00:08:05,640 --> 00:08:06,360 related things. 136 00:08:07,230 --> 00:08:10,170 Jason Baum: You know, it's funny as you say it I like, maybe I am 137 00:08:10,170 --> 00:08:12,750 a continuous learner. Because 138 00:08:13,110 --> 00:08:15,180 Dominic Church: I think people are then they then give 139 00:08:15,180 --> 00:08:16,260 themselves credit for 140 00:08:16,530 --> 00:08:18,840 Jason Baum: I learned something new. I'm a continuous learner. 141 00:08:19,290 --> 00:08:19,620 Right? You're 142 00:08:19,620 --> 00:08:20,970 Dominic Church: hosting this podcast, you're learning 143 00:08:20,970 --> 00:08:24,120 something at least every week, all the time. 144 00:08:24,750 --> 00:08:28,410 Jason Baum: But But even so from a career perspective. Yeah, I'm 145 00:08:28,410 --> 00:08:32,640 one of those people who bounced from I was a communications 146 00:08:32,640 --> 00:08:36,690 major focused on tell, honestly, first radio, now then 147 00:08:36,690 --> 00:08:40,170 television, then ended up in community building for 148 00:08:40,170 --> 00:08:42,900 nonprofits and build communities. And I've been doing 149 00:08:42,900 --> 00:08:46,980 that for 16 years. But in each phase, I felt like I needed to 150 00:08:46,980 --> 00:08:49,440 learn a different piece of the business. So I was on a 151 00:08:49,440 --> 00:08:54,360 marketing team I was on. And honestly, it's, it's was I get 152 00:08:54,360 --> 00:08:59,010 bored easily. You know, and I was told very early in my 153 00:08:59,010 --> 00:09:02,820 career, as I told I had the mindset that I wanted to do that 154 00:09:02,820 --> 00:09:05,820 I would tell my supervisor, I'm like, I want to learn everything 155 00:09:05,820 --> 00:09:09,330 that there is to know because someday I want to be you. And, 156 00:09:10,050 --> 00:09:14,100 and that can usually go well, sometimes it doesn't. But I 157 00:09:14,100 --> 00:09:19,830 would also get the advice early in my career. And it would be 158 00:09:19,950 --> 00:09:24,000 you know, you've heard the phrase, jack of all trades, 159 00:09:24,000 --> 00:09:28,260 master of none. And that stuck with me. But it's funny the the 160 00:09:28,380 --> 00:09:33,420 further in that I get, and lately I hear that's a good 161 00:09:33,420 --> 00:09:36,270 thing, that it's really good to be a jack of all trades. It used 162 00:09:36,270 --> 00:09:39,600 to be I feel like people would look down like you didn't know 163 00:09:39,600 --> 00:09:40,500 what you want to do. 164 00:09:42,179 --> 00:09:44,279 Dominic Church: I think there's a second part of that phrase to 165 00:09:44,279 --> 00:09:47,009 that if you're a jack of all trades and a Master of None, but 166 00:09:47,009 --> 00:09:52,439 that's better than being a master of one. I find that to be 167 00:09:52,649 --> 00:09:58,229 like my life statement. I've not mastered anything. And I'm 168 00:09:58,229 --> 00:10:03,719 really really good at a lot of things. And that being really, 169 00:10:03,719 --> 00:10:06,269 really good at a lot of things has allowed me to pivot in my 170 00:10:06,269 --> 00:10:09,929 career when things you know, weren't necessarily going my 171 00:10:09,929 --> 00:10:14,099 way, I didn't have to keep banging down the same door, I 172 00:10:14,099 --> 00:10:17,819 had multiple doors open to me, because of my curiosity because 173 00:10:17,819 --> 00:10:21,509 of my willingness to, to constantly learn new things, I 174 00:10:21,509 --> 00:10:25,559 got thrown into that last job with Broward County schools not 175 00:10:25,559 --> 00:10:27,929 knowing a thing about instructional materials and 176 00:10:27,929 --> 00:10:30,629 digital integrations. But I was like the guy that would take it 177 00:10:30,629 --> 00:10:37,229 on. And because of that, I became familiar with the 178 00:10:37,229 --> 00:10:39,869 learning management system that we were adopting and all the 179 00:10:39,869 --> 00:10:42,029 textbooks that we were purchasing as a school district, 180 00:10:43,409 --> 00:10:46,319 which led me to this ability to jump outside of public education 181 00:10:46,319 --> 00:10:49,859 and into the corporate world. And just because one day, I 182 00:10:49,859 --> 00:10:54,239 volunteered to do something that nobody else wanted to do. And so 183 00:10:54,239 --> 00:10:56,669 I think, you know, that willingness to kind of put 184 00:10:56,669 --> 00:10:59,219 yourself in a position of uncomfortability, when you're a 185 00:10:59,219 --> 00:11:02,969 continuous learner, you're just like, that's not a problem. I'll 186 00:11:02,969 --> 00:11:03,929 learn the things. 187 00:11:04,799 --> 00:11:06,299 Jason Baum: I think there's two sides to it. I think there's 188 00:11:06,299 --> 00:11:10,679 people like you who are like, I'm excited, I want to do it. I 189 00:11:10,739 --> 00:11:13,289 take that as a challenge. And actually, I shouldn't say that 190 00:11:13,289 --> 00:11:15,959 way, because I think many of us feel this way. But we also 191 00:11:15,959 --> 00:11:19,019 talked about imposter syndrome. And the statistic that I threw 192 00:11:19,019 --> 00:11:23,279 out the beginning of, of that panel discussion was that 90% of 193 00:11:23,279 --> 00:11:26,879 people feel imposter syndrome. And then I said, the 10%, who 194 00:11:26,879 --> 00:11:29,579 said they didn't are lying, because I think that's not true. 195 00:11:29,609 --> 00:11:33,119 I think that everyone feels it to a degree, or maybe they just 196 00:11:33,119 --> 00:11:37,739 don't know what it is. And for me, the desire to learn 197 00:11:37,739 --> 00:11:42,299 everything was also that they say after 10 years, you're an 198 00:11:42,299 --> 00:11:45,059 expert in your field. I don't know if that's true. I like you 199 00:11:45,059 --> 00:11:47,429 said, I don't know if you're ever really a master archer. 200 00:11:48,059 --> 00:11:50,849 Unless you have obtained Nirvana and you're able to levitate and 201 00:11:50,849 --> 00:11:52,529 all this other stuff. I don't know if you've ever really 202 00:11:52,529 --> 00:11:56,609 mastered it. So when I heard that I was like, I need to go 203 00:11:56,609 --> 00:12:00,089 out and I need to learn everything. Because even though 204 00:12:00,089 --> 00:12:03,119 I've attained maybe, you know, I'm going on the second decade 205 00:12:03,119 --> 00:12:07,769 in the same profession. I feel like I don't know, nearly as 206 00:12:07,769 --> 00:12:11,159 much as I should. And that's a motivating factor. 207 00:12:11,909 --> 00:12:14,669 Dominic Church: I think, you know, the idea that a continuous 208 00:12:14,669 --> 00:12:18,869 learner needs to know everything is probably a false one. I think 209 00:12:18,869 --> 00:12:21,179 that we have the opportunity to learn about the things that 210 00:12:21,179 --> 00:12:24,779 interest us and see how do they relate to the things that we do 211 00:12:24,869 --> 00:12:31,439 or want to know. Um, you know, certainly I'm, you know, there 212 00:12:31,439 --> 00:12:34,139 are people out there with different interests than me that 213 00:12:34,199 --> 00:12:39,059 just those things may never interest me, and vice versa. But 214 00:12:39,059 --> 00:12:44,129 I find that you can do a deep dive into your individual 215 00:12:44,129 --> 00:12:47,789 interests and bring that back and apply it to life in general. 216 00:12:48,299 --> 00:12:53,129 Like now that I'm in the field of sales and sales leadership, I 217 00:12:53,129 --> 00:12:57,569 find myself looking at things through a different lens. You 218 00:12:57,569 --> 00:13:04,619 know, I can watch you know, the YouTube video hotlines with Sean 219 00:13:04,619 --> 00:13:07,169 Evans, another wonderful interviewer, where where he 220 00:13:07,169 --> 00:13:10,799 challenges celebrities to eat chicken wings that range from 221 00:13:10,799 --> 00:13:14,339 like, not so spicy to very, very spicy. Anyway, 222 00:13:14,700 --> 00:13:17,130 Jason Baum: it's a really good, really like a great show. 223 00:13:17,160 --> 00:13:19,200 Dominic Church: It's a great show, check it out on YouTube. 224 00:13:19,560 --> 00:13:24,390 But I was sharing with my team the other day, like, let's watch 225 00:13:24,390 --> 00:13:26,580 this episode together, because there's some stuff in here that 226 00:13:26,580 --> 00:13:30,390 we can apply to the work that we do. And we sat and talked for 45 227 00:13:30,390 --> 00:13:34,950 minutes about Dave Grohl, and Sean Evans having this hot wings 228 00:13:34,950 --> 00:13:38,640 challenge. And like, what can we learn about sales from that? So 229 00:13:38,640 --> 00:13:43,530 I think that's the thing, right? You can stay in your veins of 230 00:13:43,530 --> 00:13:46,080 interests and begin to apply those things to other parts of 231 00:13:46,080 --> 00:13:48,990 your life. There's my favorite professor in college, Dr. 232 00:13:48,990 --> 00:13:52,170 Clifford Madsen. He's just about ready to retire at the Florida 233 00:13:52,170 --> 00:13:56,430 State University this year. planted this seed long ago for 234 00:13:56,430 --> 00:13:59,550 me, he said, Dominic, everything relates to everything. There's 235 00:13:59,580 --> 00:14:02,910 always something that you can learn and apply to what you do. 236 00:14:03,030 --> 00:14:06,240 And that's been, you know, such a blessing for me to have that 237 00:14:06,240 --> 00:14:09,930 mindset. Leaving Florida State and going into the workforce, 238 00:14:09,930 --> 00:14:11,760 because it's been so true for me. 239 00:14:12,390 --> 00:14:14,670 Jason Baum: And we have so many tools to help us these days 240 00:14:14,670 --> 00:14:17,940 where you didn't really have that, like my pool heater broke. 241 00:14:18,360 --> 00:14:22,800 I what, I guess I could go call the pool guy and spend, you 242 00:14:22,800 --> 00:14:27,660 know, 800 Whatever $1,000 to fix it, or I could YouTube it and I 243 00:14:27,780 --> 00:14:31,530 can fix it that day. You know, there's so many tools to help 244 00:14:31,530 --> 00:14:36,450 us. Or I could watch chicken wing eating contest with Dave 245 00:14:36,450 --> 00:14:39,990 Grohl, which actually I need the link to that at some point. 246 00:14:40,620 --> 00:14:43,920 Alright, so we've talked about how it can benefit, you know, 247 00:14:43,920 --> 00:14:46,620 the individual. What about the organization? 248 00:14:47,159 --> 00:14:49,679 Dominic Church: Think similarly to how continuous learning is a 249 00:14:49,679 --> 00:14:52,079 mindset for the individual. It's got to be a mindset for the 250 00:14:52,079 --> 00:14:55,979 organization as well. I'm blessed to work at a company 251 00:14:56,189 --> 00:15:01,829 that services education, K 12 and higher ed with a laser focus 252 00:15:01,859 --> 00:15:05,339 on teaching and learning, and so because of that, we want to be 253 00:15:05,339 --> 00:15:10,679 very self reflective learners as well, and constantly learn, how 254 00:15:10,679 --> 00:15:15,359 can our products be meeting the needs of our customers better? 255 00:15:16,349 --> 00:15:20,219 You know, what, what are the things that we could be doing to 256 00:15:20,219 --> 00:15:24,179 make a bigger impact in that? Space? Right, we're very mission 257 00:15:24,179 --> 00:15:27,389 driven company. And so when you have a company that's committed 258 00:15:27,389 --> 00:15:31,589 to being responsive to their customers, being responsive to 259 00:15:31,589 --> 00:15:34,799 the environment, and being good stewards of the things that 260 00:15:34,799 --> 00:15:40,379 we're responsible for, you know, we, that becomes kind of a part 261 00:15:40,379 --> 00:15:44,669 of the hiring process, it becomes part of the culture of 262 00:15:44,669 --> 00:15:47,429 the organization, so that you're always in a, in a mode of 263 00:15:47,429 --> 00:15:52,289 learning. When I first got hired the CEO at the time, had all of 264 00:15:52,289 --> 00:15:54,749 the new hires in a room and he said, Look, we're always 265 00:15:54,749 --> 00:15:58,469 learning here. And if you ever see something that you think 266 00:15:58,469 --> 00:16:02,039 we're doing that stupid, you got to speak up and tell us because 267 00:16:03,089 --> 00:16:04,949 it's because either we'll explain why we're doing it, and 268 00:16:04,949 --> 00:16:07,259 it's stupid, or we'll fix it. And so I think that that was 269 00:16:07,259 --> 00:16:11,429 like really neat to see from the top this appreciation for, we 270 00:16:11,429 --> 00:16:15,689 can make Mark, we can make corrections, we can learn from 271 00:16:15,719 --> 00:16:18,089 the people that are in the in the building, and we can learn 272 00:16:18,089 --> 00:16:20,699 from the people that are that we service as well. 273 00:16:21,690 --> 00:16:24,330 Jason Baum: There's a lot of ego checking, it sounds like when it 274 00:16:24,330 --> 00:16:28,380 comes to this, you know, leave your ego at the door, admit 275 00:16:28,380 --> 00:16:31,590 you're wrong. Mistakes are okay, these are all and these are 276 00:16:31,590 --> 00:16:37,230 DevOps principles to, by the way, you know, the, but that's 277 00:16:37,230 --> 00:16:41,610 hard. And not everyone has that culture. How do you help foster 278 00:16:41,610 --> 00:16:42,510 that kind of culture? 279 00:16:42,540 --> 00:16:44,910 Dominic Church: I think it starts with hiring, right? You 280 00:16:44,910 --> 00:16:47,850 you want to hire people that are aligned with that, because it's 281 00:16:47,850 --> 00:16:51,780 a difficult one to teach. If somebody you know, comes to a 282 00:16:51,780 --> 00:16:54,570 company and they're not comfortable being wrong, 283 00:16:54,570 --> 00:16:59,100 sometimes it's very difficult to get them to that place. So I 284 00:16:59,100 --> 00:17:04,770 think it begins with a culture of, you know, find people that 285 00:17:04,770 --> 00:17:08,760 fit that, that individually are continuous learners who can 286 00:17:08,760 --> 00:17:13,590 contribute to the business from a perspective of hiring to we're 287 00:17:13,590 --> 00:17:18,150 always trying to bring people on with different perspectives. You 288 00:17:18,150 --> 00:17:23,790 know, my, my colleagues would tell you, I have I look for 289 00:17:23,790 --> 00:17:27,780 people that that lead from where they are, but and that have lots 290 00:17:27,780 --> 00:17:31,620 of varied interests, because I want to have as many things for 291 00:17:31,620 --> 00:17:35,940 us to draw on as a team as we possibly can. You know, I could 292 00:17:35,940 --> 00:17:40,080 just go out and hire season salespeople from wherever, and 293 00:17:40,080 --> 00:17:42,360 like, they may be very mechanically good at selling 294 00:17:42,360 --> 00:17:45,150 things, but they don't add anything additional to the team. 295 00:17:45,480 --> 00:17:48,210 And I we do this across the board, not just on my team, 296 00:17:48,210 --> 00:17:50,910 we're always looking for people that that add something to the 297 00:17:50,910 --> 00:17:54,780 company culture and don't just slot in, but but really bring 298 00:17:54,780 --> 00:17:57,300 something new so that we can evolve as a company. 299 00:17:58,320 --> 00:18:01,260 Jason Baum: Today's episode of the humans of DevOps podcast is 300 00:18:01,260 --> 00:18:05,310 sponsored by collide collide is an endpoint security solution 301 00:18:05,310 --> 00:18:08,460 that sends your employees important and timely security 302 00:18:08,460 --> 00:18:12,270 recommendations for their Linux Mac and Windows devices right 303 00:18:12,270 --> 00:18:16,170 inside Slack collide is perfect for organizations that care 304 00:18:16,200 --> 00:18:20,190 deeply about compliance and security, but don't want to get 305 00:18:20,190 --> 00:18:22,950 there by locking down devices to the point where they become 306 00:18:22,980 --> 00:18:27,180 unusable instead of frustrating your employees collide educates 307 00:18:27,180 --> 00:18:30,840 them about security, and device management while directing them 308 00:18:30,840 --> 00:18:34,680 to fix important problems. You can try collide with all its 309 00:18:34,680 --> 00:18:40,050 features on an unlimited number of devices, free for 14 days, no 310 00:18:40,050 --> 00:18:46,380 credit card required. Visit callide.com/h o DEP to sign up 311 00:18:46,380 --> 00:18:55,470 today. That's callide k olid.com/h. O DEP enter your 312 00:18:55,470 --> 00:18:58,710 email when prompted to receive your free collide gift bundle 313 00:18:58,740 --> 00:19:05,880 after trial activation. So I you hear sometimes that people are 314 00:19:05,880 --> 00:19:08,910 like, I'm not gonna hire someone necessarily with the background, 315 00:19:09,000 --> 00:19:13,260 like not hiring off of the resume hiring nor off of the 316 00:19:13,260 --> 00:19:20,400 motivation, the willingness to do and learn. But that's, that's 317 00:19:20,400 --> 00:19:26,820 also a lot of, I guess. You have to have the confidence in 318 00:19:26,820 --> 00:19:30,660 yourself to see talent, and motivation. How do you look at 319 00:19:30,660 --> 00:19:33,600 those things? How do you how do you know someone is a continuous 320 00:19:33,600 --> 00:19:35,010 learner? How can you see that? 321 00:19:36,450 --> 00:19:41,340 Dominic Church: Um, there's questions that you can ask in 322 00:19:41,340 --> 00:19:43,350 the interview process, but I think you know, to your point 323 00:19:43,350 --> 00:19:46,830 earlier around, like resumes oftentimes are the barrier. You 324 00:19:46,830 --> 00:19:48,540 know, when we have a job posting, there's hundreds of 325 00:19:48,540 --> 00:19:51,900 people applying and I read every single resume that comes 326 00:19:51,900 --> 00:19:55,560 through. And what I look for is people who can make connections 327 00:19:55,560 --> 00:19:59,730 between their past work and the work that that this job is 328 00:20:00,900 --> 00:20:05,130 supposed to do? Right? We get a lot of teachers applying for 329 00:20:05,400 --> 00:20:08,040 positions at Instructure. Because they've used Canvas, and 330 00:20:08,040 --> 00:20:11,490 they're familiar with it. And I counsel a lot of teachers on 331 00:20:11,520 --> 00:20:14,850 LinkedIn and what have you for that? They'd say, Hey, we've 332 00:20:14,850 --> 00:20:17,580 seen that you've made the transition, you know, what did 333 00:20:17,580 --> 00:20:21,930 it take. And my advice to all of them usually is, you've got to 334 00:20:21,930 --> 00:20:23,580 find a way to take the things that you've done in the 335 00:20:23,580 --> 00:20:27,540 classroom or as an instructional coach, or any of the random jobs 336 00:20:27,540 --> 00:20:29,250 that you may have had an education and find a way to 337 00:20:29,250 --> 00:20:32,520 apply it to the job make the connection for me, I don't have 338 00:20:32,520 --> 00:20:35,430 the time when I'm reading 100 resumes to make that connection. 339 00:20:35,430 --> 00:20:38,640 So it's the ones who can think outside of the box and say, You 340 00:20:38,640 --> 00:20:42,030 know what, when I was in a classroom, my customers were my 341 00:20:42,030 --> 00:20:46,860 students and my families. And while I wasn't necessarily 342 00:20:46,890 --> 00:20:50,790 selling products to them, I was selling ideas to them. And I was 343 00:20:50,910 --> 00:20:54,600 able to do that through, you know, great communication and 344 00:20:54,600 --> 00:20:57,750 setting expectations. And, you know, I did have targets that I 345 00:20:57,750 --> 00:21:02,730 needed to meet quarterly as a teacher. And so if it, if an 346 00:21:02,730 --> 00:21:05,700 applicant can make those connections, chances are, 347 00:21:05,730 --> 00:21:09,270 they're going to be a standout in an interview process with me. 348 00:21:09,600 --> 00:21:13,500 It's the ones that just like, they take the same application 349 00:21:13,500 --> 00:21:16,020 that they would use to apply for a third grade teaching job to 350 00:21:16,020 --> 00:21:20,640 apply for sales position with me, those are the ones I usually 351 00:21:20,970 --> 00:21:23,790 walk past. Because if they if they're not able to make those 352 00:21:23,790 --> 00:21:25,410 connections, then I can't do it for them. 353 00:21:26,580 --> 00:21:28,530 Jason Baum: Yeah, you kind of just took us through it a little 354 00:21:28,530 --> 00:21:31,650 bit. But take us through it a little bit more on your own 355 00:21:31,650 --> 00:21:37,140 formal career, your career path, and making those links and going 356 00:21:37,140 --> 00:21:42,660 from your university setting. You know, the school side of it 357 00:21:42,660 --> 00:21:46,710 to then the sales side working for a major company for an LMS 358 00:21:46,710 --> 00:21:50,010 and the implementations and all those things that come with it 359 00:21:50,010 --> 00:21:54,540 that I mean, it's not a 180. But it is it is a it's a complete 360 00:21:54,540 --> 00:21:57,450 departure in some respects from what you were doing. 361 00:21:58,320 --> 00:22:01,650 Dominic Church: Yeah, the day to day work is very different. But 362 00:22:01,650 --> 00:22:03,870 the industry, I still feel connected to the education 363 00:22:03,870 --> 00:22:08,070 industry. So that's that's kind of how I rationalize it. I'm 364 00:22:08,070 --> 00:22:10,950 still working with school districts, they it just happens 365 00:22:10,950 --> 00:22:15,480 to be all across the country now. So you know, I started off 366 00:22:15,480 --> 00:22:18,420 as an elementary music teacher, as I mentioned, and within a 367 00:22:18,420 --> 00:22:22,230 couple of years of being an entry music teacher, I was very 368 00:22:22,230 --> 00:22:26,280 taken by some really quality school leaders that I met and 369 00:22:26,310 --> 00:22:29,520 became passionate about, that was the direction that I wanted 370 00:22:29,520 --> 00:22:31,470 to go. So I went and got a master's degree while I was 371 00:22:31,470 --> 00:22:34,110 working in educational leadership, with the full 372 00:22:34,110 --> 00:22:36,180 intention of becoming an assistant principal and then a 373 00:22:36,180 --> 00:22:40,890 principal and, and going up the school leadership path. I 374 00:22:40,920 --> 00:22:46,380 interviewed 20 times before I was able to break through from 375 00:22:46,380 --> 00:22:51,540 being a teacher to a school administrator. A lot of the 376 00:22:51,540 --> 00:22:55,350 feedback that I got on got early on was Dominic, you're super 377 00:22:55,350 --> 00:22:58,230 bright, and you've got great ideas, but your experiences are 378 00:22:58,230 --> 00:23:02,940 limited to the music classroom, in an elementary school, you 379 00:23:02,940 --> 00:23:05,520 need to do some different things in education before we're going 380 00:23:05,520 --> 00:23:10,170 to have you make the jump. And just so happened that like a 381 00:23:10,170 --> 00:23:13,530 couple of weeks later, the district's director of 382 00:23:13,530 --> 00:23:16,350 innovative learning, which is like an instructional technology 383 00:23:16,350 --> 00:23:21,180 position was walking through our building. And my principal said, 384 00:23:21,180 --> 00:23:23,340 Oh, you've got to stop by Dominic's classroom. He's the 385 00:23:23,340 --> 00:23:27,990 most techie music teacher I've ever met. And at the time, I had 386 00:23:28,650 --> 00:23:32,550 built my own classroom learning management system because we 387 00:23:32,550 --> 00:23:38,970 didn't have one as a district back in 2003. I had taken a you 388 00:23:38,970 --> 00:23:45,570 know, Wii Remote and turned it into a touchscreen for to attach 389 00:23:45,570 --> 00:23:48,150 to a projector so like, I was doing these deep dives into 390 00:23:48,150 --> 00:23:51,090 weird things to try and make the music experience more engaging 391 00:23:51,090 --> 00:23:51,930 from like your like 392 00:23:51,989 --> 00:23:54,389 Jason Baum: Wii Tennis with a treble clef just hitting it 393 00:23:54,389 --> 00:23:55,259 across like, 394 00:23:55,589 --> 00:23:57,179 Dominic Church: Well, no, actually, there was this thing 395 00:23:57,179 --> 00:24:00,119 where like, you could attach a Wii remote to a projector and 396 00:24:00,119 --> 00:24:02,999 turn any touch any whiteboard into a touchscreen. It was 397 00:24:02,999 --> 00:24:07,199 crazy. No kidding. So I like duct tape this remote control to 398 00:24:07,229 --> 00:24:10,859 my projector and, and we were off and running. And, you know, 399 00:24:10,859 --> 00:24:15,509 kids were coming up and touching the treble clef on the on the 400 00:24:15,509 --> 00:24:19,199 white screen. And I know it was it was a lot of fun. But this 401 00:24:20,789 --> 00:24:22,739 woman walked by and she was like, I'm gonna have some 402 00:24:22,739 --> 00:24:26,339 positions open pretty soon you should apply. And so when the 403 00:24:26,369 --> 00:24:29,459 opportunity to apply to become an instructional technology 404 00:24:29,459 --> 00:24:33,809 coach arose. That was a real one ad for me. I hadn't studied 405 00:24:33,809 --> 00:24:36,509 technology. I was always just interested in it. Like my dad 406 00:24:36,509 --> 00:24:41,189 was has a computer science degree from a long time ago, on 407 00:24:41,189 --> 00:24:43,619 mainframes and punch cards and things and I always had 408 00:24:43,619 --> 00:24:47,459 computers around me, I had a Tandy trs 80 back in 1980. And, 409 00:24:48,389 --> 00:24:53,159 you know, learn to program in basic on that. And so even 410 00:24:53,159 --> 00:24:56,309 though I had all of these kind of tech skills, my passion was 411 00:24:56,309 --> 00:24:58,979 for music and for like the softer side of things. So that's 412 00:24:58,979 --> 00:25:02,699 what I studied in College. But now all of a sudden all of these 413 00:25:02,699 --> 00:25:06,509 things came together for me, and being able to go and coach 414 00:25:06,509 --> 00:25:09,179 teachers on how to bring technology into their classroom 415 00:25:09,179 --> 00:25:12,179 in ways that make student learning more engaging and more 416 00:25:12,179 --> 00:25:15,839 impactful. Well, from there, that was on a grant, and I 417 00:25:15,839 --> 00:25:19,169 actually, the grant expired, and when it expired, they were gonna 418 00:25:19,169 --> 00:25:23,009 send me back to music classroom, I said, I think I need to go 419 00:25:23,009 --> 00:25:26,039 into a regular classroom, I think I needed at least a year 420 00:25:26,039 --> 00:25:30,869 of teaching a subject or a grade level. And I ended up at an 421 00:25:30,869 --> 00:25:33,449 elementary school where one of your colleagues, Roberta Ray was 422 00:25:33,449 --> 00:25:37,199 the principal. And Roberta, I remember my first day I walked 423 00:25:37,199 --> 00:25:41,489 into her office, and she said, Well, you're a music teacher, we 424 00:25:41,489 --> 00:25:42,899 already have a music teacher, I said, Yeah, I'm not here to be a 425 00:25:42,899 --> 00:25:45,209 music teacher. And she goes, Why don't know where to put you. And 426 00:25:45,209 --> 00:25:49,349 I said, Put me wherever I'll figure it out. And she goes, I 427 00:25:49,349 --> 00:25:51,959 think you'd be really good at fifth grade. So she slapped me 428 00:25:51,959 --> 00:25:56,249 into a fifth grade classroom. And same idea where I built a 429 00:25:56,249 --> 00:26:01,349 little micro blogging platform off of WordPress for our room so 430 00:26:01,349 --> 00:26:03,659 that we could, you know, have our students have continuous 431 00:26:03,659 --> 00:26:05,669 access to the information, whatever we learned during the 432 00:26:05,669 --> 00:26:08,069 day, I wanted them to be able to go back and revisit it at night, 433 00:26:08,099 --> 00:26:13,139 we did not have an LMS at the time. And so you know, having 434 00:26:13,139 --> 00:26:17,189 these sorts of things in the classroom really helped make 435 00:26:17,189 --> 00:26:22,019 learning stick for kids. Well, at the end of that year, I kind 436 00:26:22,019 --> 00:26:24,479 of fell flat on my face. Frankly, the kids took the end 437 00:26:24,479 --> 00:26:26,819 of the year test, the scores were not great. I remember going 438 00:26:26,819 --> 00:26:30,119 into recruiter's office again and saying I'm sorry. Like, I 439 00:26:30,119 --> 00:26:32,339 tried all of these weird things because I thought that they 440 00:26:32,339 --> 00:26:39,179 would work and they clearly did it. And she was like, No, I 441 00:26:39,179 --> 00:26:42,209 watched you teach and you were good at it. Just because the end 442 00:26:42,209 --> 00:26:46,619 result isn't favorable doesn't mean you did things wrong. You 443 00:26:46,619 --> 00:26:50,219 could sometimes do everything right and still lose. And she 444 00:26:50,219 --> 00:26:52,589 was like, you're going to come back and do this again next 445 00:26:52,589 --> 00:26:54,659 year. And I bet the results are going to be different. Well over 446 00:26:54,659 --> 00:26:57,449 that summer, I ended up applying for another assistant principal 447 00:26:57,449 --> 00:27:01,739 opening and got that job. So I never got a chance to see if a 448 00:27:01,739 --> 00:27:03,719 second year of being a fifth grade teacher was was going to 449 00:27:03,719 --> 00:27:07,169 be a better fit. But I got to move on to the administrative 450 00:27:07,169 --> 00:27:11,189 side of things. I'm mainly due to Roberta's encouragement, and 451 00:27:11,189 --> 00:27:12,329 just, um, 452 00:27:13,410 --> 00:27:16,920 you know, she she saw something that maybe other people didn't 453 00:27:16,920 --> 00:27:21,360 see before. And she said, you know, you've got a, a humility 454 00:27:21,390 --> 00:27:24,840 about you, but also an opportunity to affect some 455 00:27:24,840 --> 00:27:27,180 change, you're always trying new things. And I think we need to 456 00:27:27,180 --> 00:27:31,860 get that into school leadership. And so she, you know, maybe 457 00:27:31,860 --> 00:27:34,470 pulled some strings, I don't know how the politics of things 458 00:27:34,470 --> 00:27:37,530 were. But I, I ended up getting that, that promotion to 459 00:27:37,530 --> 00:27:41,430 assistant principal job and guess what hated it. It was not 460 00:27:41,430 --> 00:27:43,530 the job that I thought it was going to be it was a lot of 461 00:27:43,770 --> 00:27:48,060 monitoring, lunch rooms and bus duty and things like that. And I 462 00:27:48,060 --> 00:27:53,310 was just, you know, not in love with that work. But it that too 463 00:27:53,310 --> 00:27:55,710 was a learning experience for me, like sometimes you can go 464 00:27:55,710 --> 00:27:58,470 after something and then you achieve it. And it's not exactly 465 00:27:58,470 --> 00:28:01,800 what you thought it was gonna be. So I've, you know, 466 00:28:01,830 --> 00:28:05,970 relatively soon found a way to move into back into the 467 00:28:05,970 --> 00:28:09,540 districts. I really did love working at the district level 468 00:28:09,720 --> 00:28:12,030 when I was an instructional facilitator, because I love 469 00:28:12,030 --> 00:28:15,810 systems and, and building systems that could touch 240 470 00:28:15,810 --> 00:28:21,780 schools in Broward County 227,000 Students 14,000 teachers 471 00:28:21,960 --> 00:28:24,720 really spoke to me more than managing the bus line at one 472 00:28:24,720 --> 00:28:29,490 school. And so that became my passion for a few years, I got 473 00:28:29,490 --> 00:28:36,090 to just invent whole cloth, our adoptions and instructional 474 00:28:36,090 --> 00:28:40,830 materials, monitoring processes, I got to be part of the team 475 00:28:40,830 --> 00:28:43,590 that was evaluating learning management systems when finally 476 00:28:43,590 --> 00:28:47,610 we're going to get one. And then through that process, I decided, 477 00:28:47,880 --> 00:28:49,530 I'm going to raise my hand and say, hey, I want to be the 478 00:28:49,530 --> 00:28:52,470 administrator of this thing, too. And so I got a chance to 479 00:28:52,470 --> 00:28:55,650 dive into the backend of it. And I learned a lot. We had some 480 00:28:55,680 --> 00:29:00,900 excellent folks from Instructure that were embedded with us that 481 00:29:00,900 --> 00:29:03,720 I was learning from throughout that time, and made some great 482 00:29:03,720 --> 00:29:08,490 connections there. Fast forward a few years later, and the sales 483 00:29:08,820 --> 00:29:12,180 person that sold us canvas, reached out to me and said, Hey, 484 00:29:12,180 --> 00:29:13,890 I'm leaving, I'm going to another company, you should 485 00:29:13,890 --> 00:29:18,930 apply for my job. And I said, sales, like I've not done sales. 486 00:29:18,930 --> 00:29:21,870 I've spent, you know, almost 17 years in public education. He's 487 00:29:21,870 --> 00:29:26,370 like, no, no, you've got you've got it. And I applied for that. 488 00:29:26,370 --> 00:29:29,970 And some of the same people that that I met through the 489 00:29:29,970 --> 00:29:34,290 implementation process, were on the hiring panel and recognized, 490 00:29:34,590 --> 00:29:37,530 you know, the abilities that I brought as a Canvas admin, and 491 00:29:37,530 --> 00:29:42,030 they recognized my ability to communicate and they said, Yeah, 492 00:29:42,060 --> 00:29:44,310 you actually will be a good salesperson. And sure enough, 493 00:29:44,910 --> 00:29:48,090 you know, I made that transition. I'm selling 494 00:29:48,090 --> 00:29:50,460 something that I was passionate about, like that I knew could 495 00:29:50,460 --> 00:29:54,810 make a difference made it easier for me to make that jump. But 496 00:29:54,810 --> 00:29:58,380 it's that summation of all of those experiences that would 497 00:29:58,380 --> 00:30:02,700 eventually make me a success. is full salesperson, and then that 498 00:30:02,700 --> 00:30:07,800 my success as a salesperson came, came along with still my 499 00:30:07,800 --> 00:30:10,440 desire to lead. I never lost that even though I didn't like 500 00:30:10,440 --> 00:30:13,530 being an assistant principal, I loved leading people and 501 00:30:13,530 --> 00:30:16,770 coaching people from my time as an instructional coach. And so 502 00:30:16,770 --> 00:30:19,650 when the opportunity came to move up into a sales leadership 503 00:30:20,790 --> 00:30:23,550 position, now things are starting to synthesize my 504 00:30:23,550 --> 00:30:26,190 passion for leadership, the passion that I have for, you 505 00:30:26,190 --> 00:30:29,580 know, bringing canvas to the masses, the love that I have for 506 00:30:29,580 --> 00:30:33,450 this organization and for public education, it really became a 507 00:30:33,450 --> 00:30:37,110 great fit for, for where I am and what I needed, where I 508 00:30:37,110 --> 00:30:38,460 needed to be at this time, 509 00:30:39,210 --> 00:30:40,950 Jason Baum: I think there's a few things to point out from 510 00:30:40,950 --> 00:30:43,500 what you were just, you know, as you went through your, your 511 00:30:43,500 --> 00:30:47,790 path, which was definitely an interesting path, is that you 512 00:30:47,790 --> 00:30:52,260 had people in your corner who were encouraging you. And and, 513 00:30:52,290 --> 00:30:57,000 and also saw some piece of you that could be, and I think 514 00:30:57,000 --> 00:30:59,880 that's important to point out because not everybody has that 515 00:30:59,880 --> 00:31:04,440 or if you don't seek that out, because it's it's important, 516 00:31:04,470 --> 00:31:08,640 right as you make those transitions and, and also give 517 00:31:08,640 --> 00:31:11,310 you some of that confidence, I think to move because because 518 00:31:11,310 --> 00:31:16,260 transitioning is hard. And making leaps from one thing to 519 00:31:16,260 --> 00:31:19,530 another, even though you might not see it immediately. You 520 00:31:19,530 --> 00:31:23,010 know, if others do see that for you, or can help you to see it, 521 00:31:23,040 --> 00:31:27,510 I think that's important and encourage you. You know, for 522 00:31:27,510 --> 00:31:33,090 those who are on their path, just starting maybe, and you 523 00:31:33,090 --> 00:31:35,130 hear the phrase continuous learning, and you're like me, 524 00:31:35,130 --> 00:31:38,370 maybe you were overwhelmed at first, let's face it, and I 525 00:31:38,370 --> 00:31:42,510 don't know, this kind of asking question before the question. Do 526 00:31:42,510 --> 00:31:46,770 you ever just feel like burnt, your brain is done. Like, I've 527 00:31:46,770 --> 00:31:50,790 learned so much. I don't feel like learning today, I'm gonna 528 00:31:50,790 --> 00:31:55,800 go stick my head in a couch cushion for about four hours. 529 00:31:55,830 --> 00:32:00,120 Dominic Church: Yeah, I do. There are absolutely times and, 530 00:32:00,990 --> 00:32:05,010 but also, it's very difficult to turn off. Um, when I go on 531 00:32:05,010 --> 00:32:07,710 vacation, like everybody brings books with them, right, you 532 00:32:07,740 --> 00:32:10,020 bring a book to read on the plane, you bring a book to read 533 00:32:10,020 --> 00:32:14,040 at the beach, or whatever. And it's like, I'm, even when I'm 534 00:32:14,040 --> 00:32:16,860 reading fiction, I'm trying to apply it to, you know, 535 00:32:17,160 --> 00:32:21,180 situations that I've encountered, you know, last 536 00:32:21,180 --> 00:32:24,030 couple of weeks or something. So, I think you just sometimes 537 00:32:24,030 --> 00:32:27,060 have to embrace that side of you and say, like, Hey, I'm always 538 00:32:27,060 --> 00:32:31,080 going to be the person that wants to do this. But I find 539 00:32:31,080 --> 00:32:35,370 that the when I do want to disengage, it's usually by 540 00:32:35,400 --> 00:32:39,720 focusing on others that I'm able to stop for a second, my kids, 541 00:32:40,620 --> 00:32:44,970 my wife, you know, the folks that I work with, being able to 542 00:32:44,970 --> 00:32:50,520 just like, focus on their learning, instead of my own 543 00:32:50,550 --> 00:32:52,980 allows me to stop for a second, 544 00:32:53,880 --> 00:32:56,670 Jason Baum: a state of mindfulness I find to sing 545 00:32:56,700 --> 00:33:00,480 incredibly important. So that you can kind of like reset, like 546 00:33:00,480 --> 00:33:04,530 our phones, sometimes you, you hit that you get to the point 547 00:33:04,530 --> 00:33:07,410 where your phone's like, I'm not gonna work anymore, if you've 548 00:33:07,410 --> 00:33:11,160 been using me way too much. And now I'm just gonna stay on this 549 00:33:11,160 --> 00:33:15,540 screen, good luck, reboot it. And I feel like our brains are 550 00:33:15,540 --> 00:33:18,690 kind of like that, you know, these little micro computers 551 00:33:18,690 --> 00:33:22,110 that we walk around with and take advantage of, we need to 552 00:33:22,110 --> 00:33:27,480 reset them every now and then. So what's like a great pro tip 553 00:33:27,480 --> 00:33:30,330 for those who are just kind of starting out on this journey, 554 00:33:30,360 --> 00:33:34,500 and it might be overwhelmed by the term continuous learning. 555 00:33:36,060 --> 00:33:40,710 Dominic Church: It doesn't have to be explicit. Just look for 556 00:33:40,710 --> 00:33:48,000 things that fascinate you. It doesn't have to be work. Life is 557 00:33:48,000 --> 00:33:51,780 always throwing learning opportunities at you. And so 558 00:33:51,810 --> 00:33:55,860 it's that ability to make connections between new things 559 00:33:55,890 --> 00:34:02,310 and your, you know, your kind of current state and allow them to 560 00:34:02,310 --> 00:34:03,510 have an impact on you. 561 00:34:04,440 --> 00:34:06,750 Jason Baum: You know, this is helpful for me because I think I 562 00:34:06,750 --> 00:34:10,590 you know, can be overwhelming, right? continuous learning life 563 00:34:10,620 --> 00:34:16,440 in general. Bouncing hard. It's hard. I'm glad we're talking 564 00:34:16,440 --> 00:34:19,500 about this because, you know, I think sometimes, you know, I do 565 00:34:19,500 --> 00:34:22,320 this to where I chalk it up to you know, we have these 566 00:34:22,320 --> 00:34:25,470 buzzwords that you hear in the industry that are essentially 567 00:34:25,500 --> 00:34:28,740 that become popular different times. I feel like right now, 568 00:34:29,520 --> 00:34:33,090 everyone is home, and then continuous learning got really 569 00:34:34,410 --> 00:34:37,590 you know it it's always there, but it picked up some popularity 570 00:34:37,590 --> 00:34:41,310 as people were self pacing and things like that you could do 571 00:34:41,340 --> 00:34:44,010 through self paced study virtual was fascinating 572 00:34:44,010 --> 00:34:46,980 Dominic Church: to me, like the waves of things that happened 573 00:34:46,980 --> 00:34:49,890 during the pandemic. Everybody got into sourdough bread and 574 00:34:49,890 --> 00:34:54,810 everybody got into you know, tick tock and things like that. 575 00:34:54,810 --> 00:34:58,920 Like, it was just fascinating to see those things come and go. 576 00:34:59,460 --> 00:35:04,170 And it's because Everybody really is. Each person is a 577 00:35:04,170 --> 00:35:09,900 continuous learner. Like they really are. Why would people get 578 00:35:09,930 --> 00:35:12,960 become gravitated towards sourdough baking, for instance, 579 00:35:12,960 --> 00:35:16,020 like, I love sourdough baking, like long before the pandemic, 580 00:35:16,020 --> 00:35:20,130 so I didn't dive into that I dove into making chocolate from 581 00:35:20,160 --> 00:35:24,660 from bean to bar at my house, I bought a, a crunching machine so 582 00:35:24,660 --> 00:35:28,530 that I could grind chocolate beans into chocolate bar bars, 583 00:35:28,590 --> 00:35:31,830 like because all of us need that outlet to learn something new. 584 00:35:32,340 --> 00:35:34,350 Jason Baum: That sounds amazing. You're gonna need to send me a 585 00:35:34,350 --> 00:35:37,800 chocolate bar because I'm a chocoholic. I really, I continue 586 00:35:37,800 --> 00:35:40,800 to struggle. Alright, so going back to the beginning, and 587 00:35:40,800 --> 00:35:43,620 geeking out over coffee. What's your favorite being? 588 00:35:44,940 --> 00:35:51,690 Dominic Church: Um, I, I don't do favorites. I don't have a 589 00:35:51,690 --> 00:35:54,930 favorite food or a favorite movie or a favorite bean. Um, I 590 00:35:54,930 --> 00:35:57,570 get a subscription for coffee that gets delivered every couple 591 00:35:57,570 --> 00:36:00,390 of weeks. And it's my favorite beans, whatever just got 592 00:36:00,390 --> 00:36:04,830 delivered, because it's something new. And my curiosity 593 00:36:04,830 --> 00:36:10,440 is far more power powerful than my desire to have anything 594 00:36:10,470 --> 00:36:11,250 twice. 595 00:36:12,690 --> 00:36:16,200 Jason Baum: And that certainly fits the theme I would say, of 596 00:36:16,200 --> 00:36:19,110 the show here. Alright, so we asked one question at the end of 597 00:36:19,110 --> 00:36:22,830 the podcast that is usually very personal. It's not very 598 00:36:22,830 --> 00:36:26,190 personal, but it's more personal than I guess the rest of the 599 00:36:26,190 --> 00:36:31,140 podcast. So today's question is, if you could be remembered for 600 00:36:31,140 --> 00:36:32,730 one thing, what would it be? 601 00:36:35,580 --> 00:36:39,150 Dominic Church: I want to be remembered as somebody who left 602 00:36:39,900 --> 00:36:44,820 things better than he found them who had a positive impact on the 603 00:36:44,820 --> 00:36:49,740 people around me, the world around me. The companies that I 604 00:36:49,740 --> 00:36:55,560 worked for the kids that I taught, I hope that you know, 605 00:36:55,860 --> 00:36:59,250 when the time comes for people to remember me, that people will 606 00:36:59,280 --> 00:37:02,490 will look and say, You know what, my life is better because 607 00:37:02,490 --> 00:37:03,150 I knew him. 608 00:37:04,080 --> 00:37:05,820 Jason Baum: That's fantastic. I think that's all we could hope 609 00:37:05,820 --> 00:37:09,420 for right? At the very least. Dominic, thank you so much for 610 00:37:09,420 --> 00:37:12,960 joining us. It was wonderful. I really appreciate you walking us 611 00:37:12,960 --> 00:37:15,540 through the topic and it was really nice to meet you. 612 00:37:16,170 --> 00:37:17,940 Dominic Church: Likewise, I really appreciate being on with 613 00:37:17,940 --> 00:37:18,150 you. 614 00:37:19,260 --> 00:37:21,330 Jason Baum: And thank you for listening to this episode of the 615 00:37:21,330 --> 00:37:24,240 humans of DevOps Podcast. I'm going to end this episode the 616 00:37:24,240 --> 00:37:27,570 same way I always do encouraging you to become a member of DevOps 617 00:37:27,570 --> 00:37:31,020 Institute to get access to even more great resources just like 618 00:37:31,020 --> 00:37:34,980 this one. Until next time, stay safe, stay healthy, and most of 619 00:37:34,980 --> 00:37:37,830 all, stay human, live long and prosper. 620 00:37:40,650 --> 00:37:42,750 Narrator: Thanks for listening to this episode of the humans of 621 00:37:42,750 --> 00:37:46,320 DevOps podcast. Don't forget to join our global community to get 622 00:37:46,320 --> 00:37:49,650 access to even more great resources like this. Until next 623 00:37:49,650 --> 00:37:53,100 time, remember, you are part of something bigger than yourself. 624 00:37:53,430 --> 00:37:54,150 You belong