Narrator: You're listening to the humans of DevOps podcast, a
podcast focused on advancing the humans of DevOps through skills,
knowledge, ideas and learning, or the SK il framework.
Jennifer Servedio: Their life is change, like they're not like
they don't adapt to change or you know, as previous
generations change as part of their life, and they just accept
it and it is what it is.
Jason Baum: Hey, everyone, its Jason Baum, Director of Member
experience at DevOps Institute. And this is the humans of DevOps
podcast. Welcome hack. Hope you had a great week. So perhaps
you've noticed, we happen to be in the middle of a huge
generational shift in the workforce. Perhaps you hadn't
noticed? really started while we were all hyper focused on the
pandemic for the past couple years. We're going to talk
Zoomers, today, Gen Z, the kids who were born between depending
on who you ask 1995 97 through 2010 2012. Well, they're not
kids anymore. In fact, they're in the workforce already.
They're defined by their value driven approach to their careers
and job prospects. And by 2025 Forbes estimates Gen Z workers
will make up close to 30% of the workforce. I know I am shocked
to hear are some survey results recently published in Forbes 90%
of Gen Z workers desire and value a human connection when it
comes to their at work communication. When it comes to
hybrid, three out of four Gen Zers favorite looking for more
opportunities to work face to face with their colleagues. 58%
of Gen Z workers are willing to work nights and weekends if that
means higher getting a higher salary. 67% expressed their
willingness to relocate for a job opportunity. As the most
diverse generation to date, Gen Z is reshaping the workforce in
their own image. They are definitely not the millennials.
They're definitely not Gen X and hair certainly not the boomers.
Here to talk about this with us today is Jennifer serve video
Chief Information Officer at Susquehanna University. Jen is a
visionary and strategic technology leader with more than
22 years in higher education. She has a strong record of
success leading teams through complex technology solutions,
streamlining operations, and driving innovation. Her coaching
leadership style builds strong sustainable teams that thrive
while promoting a diverse culture of excellence. And Jen
is our guest and Jen is here. And Jen, thank you so much for
being on the humans of DevOps podcast.
Jennifer Servedio: Thank you, Jason. I'm happy to be here.
Jason Baum: So are you ready to get human?
Jennifer Servedio: Of course I am. Excellent.
Jason Baum: I think I will be too. All right. So yeah, that
was that was a big intro that I kind of read there. And I've got
to say, I've been dying to do this episode. Because I, I mean,
it kind of crept up on me too. And it just seems like out of
the nowhere out of nowhere, Gen Z who we were talking about,
okay, in 10 years, this is what they're going to be into well,
10 years is like here, and they're in the workforce, and we
need to change some things. So I am so excited to have this
conversation with you. So who is Gen Z? How are they wired? And
what is it that makes them different?
Jennifer Servedio: So, my experience with with the Zoomers
like that Gen Z. You know, they've been through a lot,
right. They have been, like you said, depending on on who is
who's telling you that when they were the range they were born
in, you know, 911, the recession in 2008. Gun violence, right.
They've been through a tremendous amount of, of trauma,
social media influence is is beyond belief and then the
pandemic, the lockdown and 2020 when they're entering the
workforce, right. So here they are. That's something that I've
been seeing lately, where I sit is a lot of a lot of these
people who they were getting ready to enter the workforce,
they they had minimal opportunity, a lot of them went
back to school to continue their education remotely that way and
Now you're dealing with people who are finishing up master's
degrees online, and they haven't been in the workforce yet. And
they're still unsure what they want to do. It's very, it's
very, it's a strange time. But the ones that I do know who are
working, the students who I deal with, day in and day out, they
are driven, they know what they want, right? They, the pandemic
has sort of thrown the last group of them for a loop, which
is really sad. But they will, they will negotiate their way
into what they want. They want a clear path, right? Work life
balance, it's a flip for them. It's life work balance. They
know when they want to, they want a flexible work schedule,
they want it all, basically, and I can't blame them who wouldn't?
Right? They've seen their parents work through jobs where
they're, they're just completely burned out all the time. And now
that they see, you know, I'm going to, I'm going to, I'm
going to tell people what I want out of my career, and I'm going
to get it. And honestly, if I'm not continually looking at a
clear path for progression for my people, they're out the door,
because there's a there's a clear path someone else
somewhere else.
Jason Baum: So yeah, they're they're passionate, they really
are. But they also mean it, they back it up. I think to me,
that's like such a huge difference. I think, I think
many group millennials, and they see Gen Z coming in, they're
like, Oh, they're gonna be like the next millennials. And not to
lump everybody. Look, these are all hasty generalizations.
Right? Okay. I'm a con major. And that's like a bad thing,
right? We're not supposed to do that. And yet, when we talk
about generations is exactly what we're doing. Everybody fits
this box. So I'll preface it with that. But that being said,
I'm going to put everybody into a box. Millennials don't
Millennials are opinionated. But then when it comes time to
actually back up those opinions, not the best. Not always as
committed. But then you have Gen Z coming in and they're bold,
they will call you out. They really believe it. And they
believe it's so much like you said they'll leave your they'll
leave their job based on principle.
Jennifer Servedio: Yes. Yes. And they their life is change. Like
they're not like they don't adapt to change, or, you know,
as previous generations change as part of their life, and they
just accept it. And it is what it is.
Jason Baum: So why do you think that is?
Jennifer Servedio: I think it's because they know that they,
they have a lot to offer. Right? So staying in the same place,
you know, growing up living near your parents staying there. And
that kind of I would call it Gen X guilt. That's something that a
lot of my my siblings have. I was quite the opposite. I think
I was born to be a Gen Z. But I was born way early. Yeah, I just
think that they've seen so much in their lives, right. And
they've been exposed to so much and, and I think that their
parents actually didn't want them to grow up with the
struggles they had, right? They don't need to work, you know, 24
hours a day and put their job first. Right? It's clicked with
them. It's not work life balance. It's life work balance.
I mentioned it before they want it all and I applaud them for
it. Yeah, and they're advocates. Right?
Jason Baum: They are. Yeah, I mean, you you touched on
something that I didn't even real, like it didn't even dawn
on me. We talked 911 And I don't know because I mean, we kind of
gave out the the ranges and it always differs depending on
where you look it up. Right? Same with, I mean, all the
generations, right? I've seen Gen X starting anywhere from 77
to 8685. So it depends on where are you? Where are you? Where
are you kind of believe are ending I mean 85 But for Gen Z
911. I don't know how much 911 Maybe played a role in their
lives. I think they were very young. Certainly maybe seeing
their older siblings or parents or whomever being impacted by
it. Maybe. But gun violence. Who, man I didn't even think of
that one and shame on me. I mean, I can pinpoint in my
school years one, and it was Columbine and it was when I was
really sort of on my way out of school. which in some ways made
it scary because it was the same age group. But I don't think it
had nearly I didn't grow up in a world with gun drills, you know,
the gun, the active shooter drills and all that stuff that
they are growing up with now, I can imagine. And I wonder how
that plays?
Jennifer Servedio: Right? Right. I mean, that that actually, as
it gets more and more prevalent, I mean, most recently in the
news. students wanting to go to school online, they don't even
want to put themselves in that. In that situation. So
Jason Baum: what are some major characteristics you've seen in
Gen Z students? That you feel like, and again, we're lumping
them all into one category? Right? But what are some of the
major characteristics?
Jennifer Servedio: Right, I work in technology. So a lot of the
students that I'm exposed to are fit the it profile, right, but
they're not, they're not the introverted Revenge of the
Nerds. It's not that that profile anymore, they're really
creative. They know who they are, they're very individual,
they know, they have a sense of of who they are their worth.
Right, one of the things I do notice, is that when when they
graduate, they have an expectation for what their worth
is, and entry levels, not it. So, so it's kind of a, you know,
that's, that's a struggle for hiring managers, as well as as
well as the person you're interviewing. Because they
really they're negotiators. Right? They know. They have they
have strong beliefs, they have a real strong belief system in, in
their values. And, and that's how they live. And it's, like I
said, I commend them, because a lot of the students a lot of the
struggles right, through the pandemic, everybody is online,
everybody's on social media and cyber bullying, like you
wouldn't think it would it would happen at the college age, you
wouldn't think that that people once they leave their their high
schools would would have time or ambition to do anything like
that. Those kinds of things exist. And yeah, it's a crazy
world that they live in. But like I said, they hold true to
their values they hold true to their identity. They're They're
advocates for everyone, right? To see the people out at at sit
ins and different things that we see on campuses and, and
protests that you see on the news. These are the people that
are out there. And, you know, when you talk about, they're
stubborn, they're very stubborn. So this is something so if I
have a multigenerational workforce, and they hold true to
what like they'll argue until you just you can't argue anymore
and you have to walk away because that you know that they
hold true to their values.
Jason Baum: Is that good or bad?
Jennifer Servedio: I mean, it can be good can be bad can get
in the way in the workplace. Yes, it can tell you that. But
you know, and it's teaching people from from different
generations to work on, on teams together, right understanding
what, what their strengths are that they can learn from each
other. But but a lot of a lot of Zoomers are kind of bullheaded,
I would have to say, they have to be right. So
Jason Baum: with with Gen Z. So as I'm as you're talking, I'm
thinking, wow, that's another comparison with millennials.
Right? Millennials. I feel like when they came into the
workforce, the this happens. I feel like no matter what
generation it is, they're like, oh, they want everything for
nothing. They're coming in, they're going to be lazy. And
they still want it all Yeah, entitled, they want they want
the title without doing the work. Well, Gen Z is like the
opposite Gen Z's like coming in and they're like, give me the
work. Give me the work. I want to do it. I want to, they want
the title, but they want to do the work to get to the title.
And they're like, and they're willing to like I read in the
beginning, almost 60% said they're willing to work nights
and weekends. I don't think that was definitely not the
millennials 67% said they're willing to relocate for a job
opportunity. Definitely not the millennials. So yeah, they're
they're convicted but they're they again, they like you keep
saying that they stand by it. They mean it.
Jennifer Servedio: They want opportunity they want and I
think it's it's embedded in them from from their parents, their
parents wanted them to have the things they didn't have. And
yeah, I mean this is the group of of the If that started the
helicopter parents in the lawnmower parents or the parents
standing behind them when they're going to college, sort
of telling them and it's like I know mom right now. Leave me
alone. Mom, I'm in college now. They know and and I think that
scared their parents, right. I think that scared them a lot.
But now they're they're productive people in the
workforce and they're really changing things.
Jason Baum: Yeah, I don't know what the as a i, I define myself
as as any you'll look it up if you're not sure it's in the
Oxford dictionary. So it's a real thing. It's a real thing. I
swear. Those born in between the Gen X and Millennial because it
is different. If you're born in the 80s, especially the early
80s. And those born in the 90s. I do not see how they can
compare analog past digital present and future. So I think
that the differences there right with with xennials When I look
at it, too, is our I look at it as the last generation of that
old guard. We're the latchkey kids. That's how I view that's
how I view us. We were we were raised by the television. No, we
were we were sorry, mom. We were raised by the television. We
were out after school. No one knew where the hell we were. And
they couldn't contact us. That was great. There were no cell
phones. So I mean, very few people had them and they were
the Zack Morris phone and no one can reach you. So when you call
home you called Collect and you did the remember the commercial
the Bob we had a baby It's a boy. Remember that commercial
still so funny. Because you call collect you get that thing in
before the when you record the prop who it is and then you hang
that up before they get charged? Or mom's gonna? Really? Yeah.
Oh, yeah. Yeah, for the collect call. But it's a different
world. And and yeah, so I think growing up that it is so
different than how your parents raised you, and then how you go
in about right the rest of your life. And it's fascinating. So,
how have you seen over the past few years, that transition, you
know, your your students transitioning to students, staff
and then to the professional world? You know, what, what's,
how are Gen Z ers? Handling that transition? What's changing
about them as they handle that transition? Because look, you
could be one way as a student and say whatever you want, and
then when you transition to that professional world, things
change regardless of the generation.
Jennifer Servedio: Yes, they do. So you know, thinking about
students in the classroom, right? They are, I mentioned
before negotiators, right? They negotiate their grades with
their professors, they get what they want out of out of their,
you know, their work, they will argue until they're blue with
what they think it will be. And that carries over into the
workforce a bit. They want constant feedback. So whereas
you know, a manager would have a one on one meeting with with an
employee maybe once every two weeks. Zoomers are always, like,
how did I do? How did that go? Was that good? You know, do I,
like we don't have anything to talk about when we have our
meetings, because you're always here asking me. But it's a good
thing because they don't want to miss out on anything, right? And
it can be exhausting. But you just it's it's something you
learn to as a manager to, to adapt to but you know, when they
hear about something, whether they're qualified for it or not,
they want to go for it. And that could get really frustrating it
for other people in the workforce. I think that co
workers have to learn how to adapt to generation z's. But but
they do, right, because they see value in them. They're good
people, right? They're there. They're family driven. They want
that that collaborative. sort of you know, I spend more time at
the office than I do at home so I kind of want to have friends
at work. You know, that kind of group. They like to do things
together. They like to they travel in packs. You know,
something I read that Gen Z years prefer to work for
millennials. So are saying why? I thought that was neat. I don't
know maybe because like you, you were talking about millennials a
little bit how they kind of maybe they can be manipulated.
That's what
Jason Baum: maybe they don't stand by their value right
there. Yeah, you Well, they can be shaped certainly. Yeah, it's
true. I think they're willing to, though I think that's that
we can reframe it. I think millennials, and we'll probably
get into this. I know in the direction I want to go with our
next few questions, but I think millennials are maybe more open
than some of the other generations perhaps, to adapt
and change to the beliefs that that Gen Z is, is saying, and
convicted it.
Jennifer Servedio: Alright, because previous generation
bosses like, you know, I'm a Gen X, sir, but I would say that I'm
much more open minded, then a lot of people might my age group
for, for managing, I like to be more of a coach. And I actually
do have, I am a sort of five Gallup strengths coach, which I
use with with my team to understand what their, what
their true innate strengths are, and help push them in those
directions. And honestly, when I think about it, my Gen Z are the
ones who really, really, like, absorb that stuff. They really
want to hear more, tell me more about my strengths, and how I
can be even better.
Jason Baum: It's interesting, because that you know that you
bring it up. I do. Remember, I don't know if you remember this,
when the millennials were coming into the workforce, the xennials
and millennials, and they had an article about how they get along
better with members of the greatest generation than they do
with the others that were definitely not Gen X.
Interesting. And, and certainly not with boomers, because they
remind them of their parents, I think that's my guess. But the I
always thought that was fascinating, too. And I think
that still stands true. I don't know. And, and we could talk
about this, I guess in a bit, but what I'm thinking about when
I told you that we're gonna go all over sometimes on this show,
just stay with it, and you'll have fun. Boomers now that when
I bring them up, that's a convicted group, like, in their
strong feelings, certainly their past of protest, and, you know,
histories, you know, there's there's nothing new in history,
right? You know, it's the past is always going to repeat
itself. And I feel like in some ways, we're kind of getting the
newest generation of the boomers in some ways when they were
kids. Now, you look at the boomers now, I'll say, wow, how
did and I won't say any names. But my parents, those who I know
who are the boomer generation, and went from pot smoking
hippies, in the 60s, who listened to, you know, music
that their parents did not approve of, to very hardline
conservatives, and have much more conservative values, I
would say, then some of these younger generations. Wow, that's
an about face. And I think about like, Wow, are, are we just a
product of where we are in our life from a time perspective? Or
like, are these gender or generations? Like, are they
going to maintain these beliefs?
Jennifer Servedio: That's a really good, good thought. I
mean, I would hope that I would hope that things are going to
continue to move forward with, you know, being advocates
supporting diversity growing. I just Simplot like I live in
central Pennsylvania right now. And sometimes, you know, I come
across people, it's like, how have you even been here this
long? With those thoughts? You know, it's sort of it sort of
brings you back into reality, like, wow. You know, I would
hope that that we would, that will continue with with our Gen
Z years now having having children and, you know, creating
a population of, of good human beings who will continue those,
you know, those values. I hope that that's, that's going on. I
mean, you know, you talked about boomers, boomers, parents were
that was like the silent generation, right? You didn't
hug your kids or say you love them, because you know, that's
you're supposed to, because, you know, they wouldn't be good
people if you did that.
Jason Baum: It should be seen not heard.
Jennifer Servedio: Yes, yeah. When you, you know, I was right
on the tail end of that. I was the youngest of six why I'm the
youngest of six. But you know, it was like, I was the one with
the mouth. And it's because I was, you know, right at the
beginning of that next generation, and yeah, your kids
are seen and not heard and oh boy. Yeah, we need to we need to
forget that ever happened.
Jason Baum: Yeah, that wasn't my grandparents, man. I love my
grandparents to death, but that it's the product of the times a
little bit. All right?
Jennifer Servedio: Yes, it absolutely is. And you know,
it's really funny I hear lots of people always blame the schools,
right? Oh, all the kids are like that, because that's what
they're teaching them in school. And yeah, and it's like, well,
it has to come from from multiple places, right? They're
teaching them to be good humans at home, and, and, you know, and
in school and enforcing that throughout their lives. But
yeah, I just, it's a unique generation I enjoy working with.
With this generation of new employees, I think that they're
like, in technology, I can hire someone entry level, who has an
associate's degree or something. Who can do they get the tech,
right, they get it, they always had technology, they've never
gone a day in their life without a screen in front of them. And
they get it, the only thing I have to teach them is how to do
things the way we do it here.
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Jennifer Servedio: And they thrive. It's just amazing.
Jason Baum: Isn't it fascinating. And my wife and I
just literally had this conversation with with friends.
There's the dude, have you heard of the wait till they're eight
movement? No. So it's yeah, it's an IT. So for alpha. Wait till
they're eight it's wait to give them a cell phone until they're
eight that boggles my mind. First of all, that their first
of all, like that they have cell phones prior to eight because I
didn't have one until college. I mean, wow. And then and, and
then we were talking about leaving, you leave, like we have
an iPad? You leave that out? My daughter? Can she's four and a
half, she could scroll through and get to YouTube and pull up
her favorite videos on her own just because it was there. Yeah,
they are. And no one taught her to do that, by the way. Like
they just they just know.
Jennifer Servedio: Yeah, they do. It's scary. It's scary. But
but just think of the opportunity, right, and they're
addicted to devices. We have to plan on every student that walks
through the door to have at least five devices that will be
connected to our wireless network all the time.
Jason Baum: Wow. So going back to where we were a little bit
before, and some of those values and what they're being taught.
And certainly, you know, we've touched on some of them because
I do believe the tech industry, ironically to me, is on is
really on the forefront of the change that's happening in the
workforce with things like psychological safety, workplace
culture issues, really getting to the heart of it, because
look, it's been bad for a while, you know, the the burnout and
all that and burnout is still a problem. But at least it's being
identified as being called out. It's not like the culture of you
know, when like when Zuckerberg started Facebook, and we're
gonna put a ping pong table, a basketball court, a spa, or
whatever in here, but you kind of work here all like you're
pretty much here all day. You know, that? Thankfully, that's
that's not as much of the culture anymore. And then
obviously diversity and inclusion. And, you know, with
with Gen Z, I'm wondering how do they approach diversity, equity
and inclusion? And what impact do you think they'll have on the
rest of the workforce?
Jennifer Servedio: So just like technology is something that has
always been available. This generation does not know the
bias that previous generations have encountered and have grown
up knowing. And I think that it causes I don't want to say it
causes conflict in the workplace, but people walk away
feeling I think different generations walk away feeling
like they are, you know, racists and it's like they take it to
that extreme. And it's like, wait a minute, no, just
Jason Baum: step back. canceled culture,
Jennifer Servedio: right? Something, something that that I
do absolutely is create a culture where people can, people
can respect each other's opinions. And, you know, it
could be alert, there can be learning moments. Something that
we try to do as a team is I let I let different people pick TED
Talks and, and things around diversity. And we'll watch them
as a group. And we'll talk about them as a group, which I think
is helpful, because then they can see differences of opinion
and sort of have, you know, sit in it with each other, let's
have empathy. And let's see where people are coming from and
talk through, you know, why would you feel that way? Because
a lot of times when you ask those questions, well, why do
you feel that way? People don't know. And that tells me, you
know, that makes them second guessed, wait a minute, this is
something that I've just always thought growing up? And I have
no, I have no, you know, nothing concrete to put against it. I
think that it helps other generations grow the their
commitment to diversity, you know, their commitment to
inclusion, their their commitment to make sure that,
that the right people are in the room when the conversations are
happening. To make sure that everybody's represented, I think
that's, that's, that's wonderful, where I see it, I
really enjoy that, that people are looking out for that. But
I'm not the only one. You know, there, this generation questions
of authority, that's something that I think about a lot, right?
When you think, getting pulled over, right, if you're speeding,
and it's okay, here's my, you know, I can remember like being
in the age group and being terrified, like, Oh, my God,
here's my license registration, I'm not going to say a word, you
know, imagine somebody being afraid, they're getting pulled
over, that they're going to be harassed for the color of their
skin or, or something like that, like just having those
conversations with these different generations is so
important. Just for growth, because you know, these are,
these are kids are Gen z's, who are having kids who don't want
their kids exposed to grandparents who, who have
values very different from what they have, right? Going into,
into different situations where they could be exposed, and then,
you know, them questioning things as a little kid, and
then, you know, I don't know, it's, it's just, it seems like
it could be, things could be so much better. And I think this
generation is actually going to do it.
Jason Baum: Do you think so? I hope so
Jennifer Servedio: a lot of hope. I'm around a lot of people
in this age group all the time. And I just I walk away feeling
like, wow, they get it. Right.
Jason Baum: I thought it was gonna be millennials. I really
did. And but you know, what goes back to what we were saying
about millennials and others. Yeah,
Jennifer Servedio: I don't know. Hey, my generation we used to
glue in kindergarten and
Jason Baum: Well, I think ours won't even get into it.
Jennifer Servedio: I don't know what it is. Jason, you just
bring this out in me.
Jason Baum: I have that habit. Yeah, well, I said it in the
beginning of the podcast, I gave that, you know, they are the
most racially and ethnically diverse generation in US
history. So certainly their makeup is different, and like,
actually different. And so I'm gonna go back to that Forbes
survey, and maybe this will be surprising to you, maybe it
won't be. But according to them, 67% of Gen Z workers reported
having witnessed discrimination or bias based on race,
ethnicity, sexual orientation or gender identity in a workplace
setting. 44% of them report having personally experienced
it. They also say in this, that 69% stated that they would
absolutely be more likely to apply to a job at a company that
emphasized a racially and ethnically diverse workplace in
the recruitment materials was 70% 88% of them felt that a
recruiter or potential employer should solicit their gender
pronouns. And he, that's these numbers. I mean, they're almost
100% agreement. And then they said that 65% reported feeling
strongly that such questions about gender pronouns should be
part of the recruitment process. But despite their expectations,
only 18% said that they were asked about their gender
pronouns by recruiter. So we do not get this generation. No, no,
we're not there yet. They're there. And they're like, all
they're pretty much. And we are, we are way by way behind them.
Clearly.
Jennifer Servedio: What those sticks tell me is that they're
very, they're mindful of other people, they value the human
connection, right? I want to know what your pronouns are,
because I don't want to misspeak and hurt your feelings. And I
see that all the time on a college campus, much more
empathetic. Absolutely, absolutely. They they definitely
feel for people and they're there for people, they back them
up. I like that.
Jason Baum: You know, coming into the workforce, as always,
it's always a transit is a huge transition, right? You know,
going from pretty much a life of being in school. Yeah, in school
your whole life. To now, it's very different in the workforce.
It's like a whole new jungle, right? And a new set of rules.
And also, now, things that are happening, the socio economical
things that are taking place, impact you a lot more, you're
moving out possibly around that time. You're not leaning on your
parents nearly as much anymore. So yeah, the weight of the world
is now on your shoulders. And so things that are going on make a
big impact. So like for myself, I could say, you know, coming
into the workforce, it was the we were pretty much in the
beginnings, beginnings of the Second Gulf War. And I know,
shortly thereafter, people were coming in in 2008. It was an
economic just the complete collapse and and recession of
the economy. And, you know, the worst one we've had since since
the Great Depression. And that shaped a lot of people for Gen
Z, who's coming into the workforce right now. They've
never been in an office. No, Jen's ears. If you look at the
if you go by the age bracket I was talking about, that means
they're probably around 20 to 23. Depends on how, yes, they've
never been in an office then. Or perhaps some have if they're
going to an office that's that never went remote. But a good
chunk, never stepped foot in an office. And now they're being
asked to go back, I read you that stat on hybrid, they want
to go back, I can imagine why. So certainly, this is a
different transition for them, I think, than any of the others.
So with that said, what type of successes or struggles have you
seen with this age group dealing with that?
Jennifer Servedio: So when we did go remote, every everyone,
there was always the misconception that jobs can jobs
can't be done remote jobs, and it cannot be done remote. Well,
unless you're physically having to touch a piece of hardware.
For someone your job certainly can be remote, at least part of
the time. This generation showed us that they know how to work
remotely, right? They know how to be productive in a remote
setting, do they want to be isolated? They don't right now
all of them, I can't speak for all of them. I do have a person
who's working for me now who the position is is a remote position
and they said you know what, I want to come in a few days a
week. Okay, that's great. They love being part of the team
being here. And now just purchased a home in the area and
we'll be here full time can actually walk to the office. So
it's it's you know, but then you have people who want to be fully
remote and yeah, it just depends on on what they're they're used
to I would say people who live in rural areas do not want to
work remote. They want to be with people people in more you
know urban settings can work in a remote situation and then walk
out the door and be near people so it just depends on what what
the work is and who it is. I do know that a lot of people in
different generations think they can work remote but they really
don't know how to. So this is really the first generation that
knows how to work remotely because that's been that's been
their
Jason Baum: their home many ways they've been preparing For this
their whole lives they
Jennifer Servedio: have Right, right. Oh my gosh. Yeah. So that
I think that that's, that's, I mean, that's something that that
speaks to the type of people they are because they want to be
there, they want the opportunity, right, you're gonna
miss the opportunity if you're not there. And I think that's
and they also want to connect, they really do want to connect
their life is networking, whether it's it's on their
mobile device or in person, they do know how to, they know how to
connect with people.
Jason Baum: Gosh, I can think back to coming into the
workforce and just the nuances that you pick up the office, the
workplace culture, the the, I should say, the office culture.
Going to the lunch room, and watching TV with your
colleagues, going out to lunch with your colleagues. You know,
there's so many things that, you know, earlier in your career, I
mean, ever, someone wants told me a recruiter told me that's
the majority of people don't get their jobs by applying to them,
they get them from people that they already knew. It's through
connections, right? So relationship building, so in
some ways, Gen Z should be prepared to do this, because
they enjoy it. But another way is I maybe I shouldn't based on
our conversation, I kind of feel better than I did before about
Gen Z with with this because I was worried about them. Because
I'm like, you know, I don't know if I would be in my spot in my
career without those early days of networking. And, and I don't
mean just networking, going to a networking event. I mean, like
in the office networking, talking to everyone getting to
know everyone learning about what they do for their job,
people that you know, you have an internship, but that's
nothing compared to once you're an actual employee their full
time every single day. So I wonder what they're missing? Is
that going to hurt them down the line? Or is it a non issue?
Because it's just a different time?
Jennifer Servedio: That's a tough question. Because so I'm
used to managing people face to face. And I know in the
beginning of lockdown. You know, when we were all, we were still
all in the same sort of venue, just zoom, right? We weren't all
sitting in the same room, but we were all there together. It was
not hybrid. When we went to hybrid, it was so easy to forget
that person who was remote. Right? We're having meetings,
it's like, oh, no, did so and so bring a laptop. So, you know, we
can we can zoom? You know, John in or something? I think that
there, it depends on the culture, where, where the person
is working. So that's something that I've been very, very
mindful of, as we move forward with more remote workers, is how
we, how we function in a hybrid mode and how we keep those
people. You know, part of the day to day?
Jason Baum: Yeah, for those of us managers, directors, VPS,
CEOs, wherever, talk to your gen Zers they need they're going to
need the nurturer meant just like just like we got and and
they might not know how to. Although now it sounds like they
do know how to ask for it. But maybe they don't you know, maybe
they're not maybe they're not asking the right question help
them Oh, my gosh, help them because I do fear that there are
things that they're going to miss out. Hopefully with this
return. Now, it does seem like there's some you know, with with
hybrid and getting back to some some in person, hopefully that
that will. These were just a was all just a dream as to years
when I be nice. So shifting gears a little bit. Maybe you
could share with us just like from your own experience, you
know, working with a Gen Z employee, maybe sharing like
what particular success you've had, and then maybe where you've
struggled.
Jennifer Servedio: Absolutely. So gosh, just success. I would
say this would be a success for me if I was a life coach or a
career coach, right? So my my Gen Z years will come to me to
ask for references. Will I be a reference for a different job
somewhere else? And it's like, how did that happen? Like well,
you're always so supportive, and you're always pushing me to grow
and I'm always sending articles about being having you know,
being brave asking questions. You know, that whole thing like
reinforcing their beliefs. And it's like, you know, you have to
go out and look for opportunity, it's not going to come and find
you. Sometimes it does. But most of the time you have to find it.
And just having those, those coaching sessions with my team
members, you know, they will come to me and say, Jen, I got
an offer from someone, what do I do? It's like, alright, let's
sit down and talk through it, let's figure out what you want
to do. I don't want you to go, but I want you to be successful.
So you know, that happens. And unfortunately, you just you, we
have to move on when they leave. But you know, that's a great
thing for them. Because they'll pass that on to people who work
for them down the road, right? They'll help them grow. You
know, somewhere where we fail, I can think during during the
pandemic, just not being able to have that. I like to walk around
and see everybody in the office in the morning. It's one of my
things everybody's like, so how long have you really been here
because you're just getting to your office, stopping and, you
know, waving hello, how's everything, how's this going
out, you know, finding out about their family. That's important
to me. And I think that connection is important to them.
And I think those are things that were lacking during
lockdown that people missed. And, and I may have lost some
people during that time, hopefully gain them back when
they we got back together. But I just think that people suffered
during that time. And being the Gen X or that I, you know, work
myself to death. And I feel responsible for that. I try to
be mindful, I try to create a culture where everybody feels
like, I'm not just listening to them, but I'm hearing what
they're saying. And I'm hearing what they want to do and guiding
them in ways to get to get there.
Jason Baum: You sound like a Gen Z or?
Jennifer Servedio: Yeah, I was born in the wrong era. I think
it's from being in higher education for so long being
around the different students. And really being like, we just
had our commencement and it's just so it's just that that
proud moment to see, you know, all of these people all the work
they've done, and just, you know, on the cusp of the next,
the next opportunity and how exciting that is.
Jason Baum: It's the one thing that we really tried to install
on my own daughter is kindness, kindness, kindness, kindness, my
mind. Yes, kindness. Okay, so we're a Jen, thank you so much.
I really have enjoyed, you know, having this conversation with
you about Gen Z and, and generations. And I hope you'll
come back. I think we have more work to do on this. I think
there's a lot that we could get into when it comes to the
generations, not just Gen Z, we kind of touched on some give a
little glimpse of some of the other things that we could talk
I want to I mean, there's so much to say about generation, so
I really appreciate
Jennifer Servedio: it. No, thank you for having me. This was fun.
Before
Jason Baum: we go, though, I don't let my guests off the hook
that easy. I always ask a closing question. We don't give
this to you in advance. Maybe we should because I sometimes feel
like we get we get you a little bit. We don't we're gonna last
too many gotcha questions. Just one. So what's one question you
wished I'd asked you? And how would you have answered it?
Jennifer Servedio: Oh, wow. One question. So I have this
question that I always ask in job interviews of candidates.
And it's sort of a geeky it question. I think, my spin on
it, but I asked if you could be a superhero. Which one would you
be and why? And honestly, I would want to be Wonder Woman
because she's got the truth. lasso, right. So no one could
lie to me. And she's got those those reflector cuffs and an
invisible jet. How cool is that? I could get everywhere I wanted
to super quick.
Jason Baum: That's that's pretty cool. That's a good one. Yeah, I
don't know who Mine would be.
Jennifer Servedio: Do you want to hear the worst answer I ever
got?
Jason Baum: Yeah. What's the worst answer? Oh,
Jennifer Servedio: I love this. Yes. The worst antari ever got
Fred Flintstone? And I was like, a superhero. And you know what
their answer was? If anyone can push that car with the whole
family in it, including Dino. Yeah.
Jason Baum: Oh my gosh, did they get to chop? No. That's that's
great for Flintstone lamb. Were two people thinking. I was
great. Thank you so much. I really appreciate your time.
Jen. Thanks for coming on the show. Thank you, Jason. And
thank you for listening to this episode of the humans of DevOps
podcast. So, I'm going to end this episode the same way I
always do, encouraging you to check out DevOps Institute to
get access to even more great resources just like this one.
Let's continue the conversation in the DevOps in the wild
community. That's community dot DevOps institute.com. Until next
time, stay safe, stay healthy, and most of all, stay human,
live long and prosper.
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