1 00:00:03,389 --> 00:00:06,269 Narrator: You're listening to the humans of DevOps podcast, a 2 00:00:06,269 --> 00:00:09,929 podcast focused on advancing the humans of DevOps through skills, 3 00:00:09,959 --> 00:00:14,309 knowledge, ideas and learning, or the SK il framework. 4 00:00:16,770 --> 00:00:19,860 Jennifer Servedio: Their life is change, like they're not like 5 00:00:19,890 --> 00:00:22,950 they don't adapt to change or you know, as previous 6 00:00:22,980 --> 00:00:26,460 generations change as part of their life, and they just accept 7 00:00:26,460 --> 00:00:27,750 it and it is what it is. 8 00:00:31,170 --> 00:00:34,170 Jason Baum: Hey, everyone, its Jason Baum, Director of Member 9 00:00:34,170 --> 00:00:38,640 experience at DevOps Institute. And this is the humans of DevOps 10 00:00:38,640 --> 00:00:43,890 podcast. Welcome hack. Hope you had a great week. So perhaps 11 00:00:43,890 --> 00:00:47,160 you've noticed, we happen to be in the middle of a huge 12 00:00:47,160 --> 00:00:50,460 generational shift in the workforce. Perhaps you hadn't 13 00:00:50,460 --> 00:00:54,570 noticed? really started while we were all hyper focused on the 14 00:00:54,570 --> 00:00:58,020 pandemic for the past couple years. We're going to talk 15 00:00:58,020 --> 00:01:04,050 Zoomers, today, Gen Z, the kids who were born between depending 16 00:01:04,050 --> 00:01:12,180 on who you ask 1995 97 through 2010 2012. Well, they're not 17 00:01:12,180 --> 00:01:17,010 kids anymore. In fact, they're in the workforce already. 18 00:01:17,850 --> 00:01:20,910 They're defined by their value driven approach to their careers 19 00:01:20,910 --> 00:01:27,900 and job prospects. And by 2025 Forbes estimates Gen Z workers 20 00:01:27,900 --> 00:01:34,800 will make up close to 30% of the workforce. I know I am shocked 21 00:01:34,800 --> 00:01:40,950 to hear are some survey results recently published in Forbes 90% 22 00:01:40,980 --> 00:01:44,760 of Gen Z workers desire and value a human connection when it 23 00:01:44,760 --> 00:01:48,510 comes to their at work communication. When it comes to 24 00:01:48,510 --> 00:01:53,580 hybrid, three out of four Gen Zers favorite looking for more 25 00:01:53,580 --> 00:01:58,620 opportunities to work face to face with their colleagues. 58% 26 00:01:58,680 --> 00:02:02,580 of Gen Z workers are willing to work nights and weekends if that 27 00:02:02,580 --> 00:02:09,360 means higher getting a higher salary. 67% expressed their 28 00:02:09,360 --> 00:02:14,220 willingness to relocate for a job opportunity. As the most 29 00:02:14,220 --> 00:02:18,240 diverse generation to date, Gen Z is reshaping the workforce in 30 00:02:18,240 --> 00:02:21,960 their own image. They are definitely not the millennials. 31 00:02:22,500 --> 00:02:27,720 They're definitely not Gen X and hair certainly not the boomers. 32 00:02:28,530 --> 00:02:32,190 Here to talk about this with us today is Jennifer serve video 33 00:02:32,370 --> 00:02:36,120 Chief Information Officer at Susquehanna University. Jen is a 34 00:02:36,120 --> 00:02:39,300 visionary and strategic technology leader with more than 35 00:02:39,300 --> 00:02:43,410 22 years in higher education. She has a strong record of 36 00:02:43,410 --> 00:02:46,950 success leading teams through complex technology solutions, 37 00:02:47,100 --> 00:02:51,960 streamlining operations, and driving innovation. Her coaching 38 00:02:51,960 --> 00:02:56,160 leadership style builds strong sustainable teams that thrive 39 00:02:56,190 --> 00:03:00,180 while promoting a diverse culture of excellence. And Jen 40 00:03:00,180 --> 00:03:03,090 is our guest and Jen is here. And Jen, thank you so much for 41 00:03:03,090 --> 00:03:05,190 being on the humans of DevOps podcast. 42 00:03:05,970 --> 00:03:07,650 Jennifer Servedio: Thank you, Jason. I'm happy to be here. 43 00:03:08,100 --> 00:03:10,020 Jason Baum: So are you ready to get human? 44 00:03:10,260 --> 00:03:12,300 Jennifer Servedio: Of course I am. Excellent. 45 00:03:12,840 --> 00:03:16,710 Jason Baum: I think I will be too. All right. So yeah, that 46 00:03:16,710 --> 00:03:21,210 was that was a big intro that I kind of read there. And I've got 47 00:03:21,210 --> 00:03:26,400 to say, I've been dying to do this episode. Because I, I mean, 48 00:03:26,400 --> 00:03:31,260 it kind of crept up on me too. And it just seems like out of 49 00:03:31,260 --> 00:03:34,860 the nowhere out of nowhere, Gen Z who we were talking about, 50 00:03:34,860 --> 00:03:37,470 okay, in 10 years, this is what they're going to be into well, 51 00:03:37,470 --> 00:03:42,450 10 years is like here, and they're in the workforce, and we 52 00:03:42,450 --> 00:03:48,120 need to change some things. So I am so excited to have this 53 00:03:48,120 --> 00:03:57,390 conversation with you. So who is Gen Z? How are they wired? And 54 00:03:57,390 --> 00:03:58,860 what is it that makes them different? 55 00:04:01,560 --> 00:04:05,310 Jennifer Servedio: So, my experience with with the Zoomers 56 00:04:05,370 --> 00:04:09,480 like that Gen Z. You know, they've been through a lot, 57 00:04:09,630 --> 00:04:14,430 right. They have been, like you said, depending on on who is 58 00:04:14,640 --> 00:04:17,580 who's telling you that when they were the range they were born 59 00:04:17,580 --> 00:04:27,390 in, you know, 911, the recession in 2008. Gun violence, right. 60 00:04:27,420 --> 00:04:30,570 They've been through a tremendous amount of, of trauma, 61 00:04:31,050 --> 00:04:35,190 social media influence is is beyond belief and then the 62 00:04:35,190 --> 00:04:38,790 pandemic, the lockdown and 2020 when they're entering the 63 00:04:38,790 --> 00:04:43,680 workforce, right. So here they are. That's something that I've 64 00:04:43,680 --> 00:04:48,720 been seeing lately, where I sit is a lot of a lot of these 65 00:04:48,720 --> 00:04:52,140 people who they were getting ready to enter the workforce, 66 00:04:52,140 --> 00:04:56,460 they they had minimal opportunity, a lot of them went 67 00:04:56,460 --> 00:04:59,970 back to school to continue their education remotely that way and 68 00:05:00,000 --> 00:05:06,390 Now you're dealing with people who are finishing up master's 69 00:05:06,390 --> 00:05:09,930 degrees online, and they haven't been in the workforce yet. And 70 00:05:09,930 --> 00:05:13,050 they're still unsure what they want to do. It's very, it's 71 00:05:13,050 --> 00:05:17,820 very, it's a strange time. But the ones that I do know who are 72 00:05:17,820 --> 00:05:22,380 working, the students who I deal with, day in and day out, they 73 00:05:22,380 --> 00:05:27,000 are driven, they know what they want, right? They, the pandemic 74 00:05:27,000 --> 00:05:30,060 has sort of thrown the last group of them for a loop, which 75 00:05:30,060 --> 00:05:38,340 is really sad. But they will, they will negotiate their way 76 00:05:39,030 --> 00:05:44,040 into what they want. They want a clear path, right? Work life 77 00:05:44,040 --> 00:05:47,730 balance, it's a flip for them. It's life work balance. They 78 00:05:47,730 --> 00:05:51,480 know when they want to, they want a flexible work schedule, 79 00:05:51,510 --> 00:05:54,690 they want it all, basically, and I can't blame them who wouldn't? 80 00:05:55,170 --> 00:05:57,750 Right? They've seen their parents work through jobs where 81 00:05:57,750 --> 00:06:01,260 they're, they're just completely burned out all the time. And now 82 00:06:01,260 --> 00:06:05,460 that they see, you know, I'm going to, I'm going to, I'm 83 00:06:05,460 --> 00:06:08,040 going to tell people what I want out of my career, and I'm going 84 00:06:08,040 --> 00:06:12,990 to get it. And honestly, if I'm not continually looking at a 85 00:06:12,990 --> 00:06:17,580 clear path for progression for my people, they're out the door, 86 00:06:17,610 --> 00:06:19,830 because there's a there's a clear path someone else 87 00:06:19,860 --> 00:06:20,640 somewhere else. 88 00:06:20,820 --> 00:06:23,850 Jason Baum: So yeah, they're they're passionate, they really 89 00:06:23,880 --> 00:06:27,780 are. But they also mean it, they back it up. I think to me, 90 00:06:27,780 --> 00:06:32,100 that's like such a huge difference. I think, I think 91 00:06:32,640 --> 00:06:37,080 many group millennials, and they see Gen Z coming in, they're 92 00:06:37,080 --> 00:06:41,610 like, Oh, they're gonna be like the next millennials. And not to 93 00:06:41,610 --> 00:06:44,100 lump everybody. Look, these are all hasty generalizations. 94 00:06:44,100 --> 00:06:48,420 Right? Okay. I'm a con major. And that's like a bad thing, 95 00:06:48,420 --> 00:06:50,940 right? We're not supposed to do that. And yet, when we talk 96 00:06:50,940 --> 00:06:53,550 about generations is exactly what we're doing. Everybody fits 97 00:06:53,550 --> 00:06:58,770 this box. So I'll preface it with that. But that being said, 98 00:07:00,000 --> 00:07:03,930 I'm going to put everybody into a box. Millennials don't 99 00:07:03,990 --> 00:07:06,960 Millennials are opinionated. But then when it comes time to 100 00:07:06,960 --> 00:07:13,410 actually back up those opinions, not the best. Not always as 101 00:07:13,410 --> 00:07:17,040 committed. But then you have Gen Z coming in and they're bold, 102 00:07:17,160 --> 00:07:21,210 they will call you out. They really believe it. And they 103 00:07:21,210 --> 00:07:24,780 believe it's so much like you said they'll leave your they'll 104 00:07:24,780 --> 00:07:27,210 leave their job based on principle. 105 00:07:27,360 --> 00:07:32,850 Jennifer Servedio: Yes. Yes. And they their life is change. Like 106 00:07:32,850 --> 00:07:36,000 they're not like they don't adapt to change, or, you know, 107 00:07:36,090 --> 00:07:39,600 as previous generations change as part of their life, and they 108 00:07:39,600 --> 00:07:41,730 just accept it. And it is what it is. 109 00:07:41,730 --> 00:07:42,930 Jason Baum: So why do you think that is? 110 00:07:45,450 --> 00:07:48,540 Jennifer Servedio: I think it's because they know that they, 111 00:07:49,530 --> 00:07:54,450 they have a lot to offer. Right? So staying in the same place, 112 00:07:55,830 --> 00:08:00,240 you know, growing up living near your parents staying there. And 113 00:08:00,240 --> 00:08:05,580 that kind of I would call it Gen X guilt. That's something that a 114 00:08:05,580 --> 00:08:09,960 lot of my my siblings have. I was quite the opposite. I think 115 00:08:09,960 --> 00:08:16,200 I was born to be a Gen Z. But I was born way early. Yeah, I just 116 00:08:16,200 --> 00:08:18,360 think that they've seen so much in their lives, right. And 117 00:08:18,360 --> 00:08:21,240 they've been exposed to so much and, and I think that their 118 00:08:21,240 --> 00:08:25,110 parents actually didn't want them to grow up with the 119 00:08:25,110 --> 00:08:30,960 struggles they had, right? They don't need to work, you know, 24 120 00:08:30,960 --> 00:08:34,380 hours a day and put their job first. Right? It's clicked with 121 00:08:34,380 --> 00:08:38,340 them. It's not work life balance. It's life work balance. 122 00:08:39,030 --> 00:08:43,530 I mentioned it before they want it all and I applaud them for 123 00:08:43,530 --> 00:08:46,260 it. Yeah, and they're advocates. Right? 124 00:08:46,470 --> 00:08:51,180 Jason Baum: They are. Yeah, I mean, you you touched on 125 00:08:51,180 --> 00:08:54,420 something that I didn't even real, like it didn't even dawn 126 00:08:54,420 --> 00:08:59,760 on me. We talked 911 And I don't know because I mean, we kind of 127 00:08:59,760 --> 00:09:03,150 gave out the the ranges and it always differs depending on 128 00:09:03,150 --> 00:09:06,840 where you look it up. Right? Same with, I mean, all the 129 00:09:06,840 --> 00:09:10,980 generations, right? I've seen Gen X starting anywhere from 77 130 00:09:10,980 --> 00:09:16,440 to 8685. So it depends on where are you? Where are you? Where 131 00:09:16,440 --> 00:09:24,390 are you kind of believe are ending I mean 85 But for Gen Z 132 00:09:24,930 --> 00:09:29,160 911. I don't know how much 911 Maybe played a role in their 133 00:09:29,160 --> 00:09:32,130 lives. I think they were very young. Certainly maybe seeing 134 00:09:32,160 --> 00:09:38,730 their older siblings or parents or whomever being impacted by 135 00:09:38,730 --> 00:09:46,860 it. Maybe. But gun violence. Who, man I didn't even think of 136 00:09:46,860 --> 00:09:50,670 that one and shame on me. I mean, I can pinpoint in my 137 00:09:50,670 --> 00:09:57,060 school years one, and it was Columbine and it was when I was 138 00:09:57,060 --> 00:10:01,320 really sort of on my way out of school. which in some ways made 139 00:10:01,320 --> 00:10:05,580 it scary because it was the same age group. But I don't think it 140 00:10:05,580 --> 00:10:10,380 had nearly I didn't grow up in a world with gun drills, you know, 141 00:10:10,380 --> 00:10:13,410 the gun, the active shooter drills and all that stuff that 142 00:10:13,410 --> 00:10:19,050 they are growing up with now, I can imagine. And I wonder how 143 00:10:19,050 --> 00:10:19,980 that plays? 144 00:10:21,420 --> 00:10:24,960 Jennifer Servedio: Right? Right. I mean, that that actually, as 145 00:10:24,960 --> 00:10:28,890 it gets more and more prevalent, I mean, most recently in the 146 00:10:28,890 --> 00:10:34,530 news. students wanting to go to school online, they don't even 147 00:10:34,530 --> 00:10:38,730 want to put themselves in that. In that situation. So 148 00:10:42,300 --> 00:10:44,550 Jason Baum: what are some major characteristics you've seen in 149 00:10:44,550 --> 00:10:49,650 Gen Z students? That you feel like, and again, we're lumping 150 00:10:49,650 --> 00:10:52,110 them all into one category? Right? But what are some of the 151 00:10:52,110 --> 00:10:53,430 major characteristics? 152 00:10:54,900 --> 00:10:57,810 Jennifer Servedio: Right, I work in technology. So a lot of the 153 00:10:57,810 --> 00:11:02,520 students that I'm exposed to are fit the it profile, right, but 154 00:11:02,970 --> 00:11:07,080 they're not, they're not the introverted Revenge of the 155 00:11:07,080 --> 00:11:11,880 Nerds. It's not that that profile anymore, they're really 156 00:11:11,880 --> 00:11:15,150 creative. They know who they are, they're very individual, 157 00:11:15,180 --> 00:11:19,440 they know, they have a sense of of who they are their worth. 158 00:11:19,530 --> 00:11:26,070 Right, one of the things I do notice, is that when when they 159 00:11:26,100 --> 00:11:29,340 graduate, they have an expectation for what their worth 160 00:11:29,340 --> 00:11:36,030 is, and entry levels, not it. So, so it's kind of a, you know, 161 00:11:36,030 --> 00:11:39,420 that's, that's a struggle for hiring managers, as well as as 162 00:11:39,420 --> 00:11:42,030 well as the person you're interviewing. Because they 163 00:11:42,030 --> 00:11:48,810 really they're negotiators. Right? They know. They have they 164 00:11:48,810 --> 00:11:52,920 have strong beliefs, they have a real strong belief system in, in 165 00:11:52,920 --> 00:11:57,780 their values. And, and that's how they live. And it's, like I 166 00:11:57,780 --> 00:12:02,790 said, I commend them, because a lot of the students a lot of the 167 00:12:04,590 --> 00:12:08,220 struggles right, through the pandemic, everybody is online, 168 00:12:08,250 --> 00:12:11,370 everybody's on social media and cyber bullying, like you 169 00:12:11,370 --> 00:12:15,570 wouldn't think it would it would happen at the college age, you 170 00:12:15,570 --> 00:12:20,520 wouldn't think that that people once they leave their their high 171 00:12:20,520 --> 00:12:24,600 schools would would have time or ambition to do anything like 172 00:12:24,600 --> 00:12:32,580 that. Those kinds of things exist. And yeah, it's a crazy 173 00:12:32,580 --> 00:12:34,980 world that they live in. But like I said, they hold true to 174 00:12:34,980 --> 00:12:39,510 their values they hold true to their identity. They're They're 175 00:12:39,810 --> 00:12:46,830 advocates for everyone, right? To see the people out at at sit 176 00:12:46,830 --> 00:12:51,030 ins and different things that we see on campuses and, and 177 00:12:51,030 --> 00:12:54,210 protests that you see on the news. These are the people that 178 00:12:54,210 --> 00:13:00,360 are out there. And, you know, when you talk about, they're 179 00:13:00,360 --> 00:13:04,320 stubborn, they're very stubborn. So this is something so if I 180 00:13:04,320 --> 00:13:11,040 have a multigenerational workforce, and they hold true to 181 00:13:11,040 --> 00:13:15,120 what like they'll argue until you just you can't argue anymore 182 00:13:15,120 --> 00:13:20,220 and you have to walk away because that you know that they 183 00:13:20,220 --> 00:13:21,360 hold true to their values. 184 00:13:21,420 --> 00:13:22,560 Jason Baum: Is that good or bad? 185 00:13:22,830 --> 00:13:24,990 Jennifer Servedio: I mean, it can be good can be bad can get 186 00:13:24,990 --> 00:13:28,500 in the way in the workplace. Yes, it can tell you that. But 187 00:13:28,500 --> 00:13:31,350 you know, and it's teaching people from from different 188 00:13:31,350 --> 00:13:36,840 generations to work on, on teams together, right understanding 189 00:13:36,840 --> 00:13:39,960 what, what their strengths are that they can learn from each 190 00:13:39,960 --> 00:13:43,410 other. But but a lot of a lot of Zoomers are kind of bullheaded, 191 00:13:43,410 --> 00:13:46,770 I would have to say, they have to be right. So 192 00:13:47,850 --> 00:13:50,820 Jason Baum: with with Gen Z. So as I'm as you're talking, I'm 193 00:13:50,820 --> 00:13:53,160 thinking, wow, that's another comparison with millennials. 194 00:13:53,160 --> 00:13:56,040 Right? Millennials. I feel like when they came into the 195 00:13:56,040 --> 00:13:59,730 workforce, the this happens. I feel like no matter what 196 00:13:59,730 --> 00:14:02,550 generation it is, they're like, oh, they want everything for 197 00:14:02,550 --> 00:14:05,340 nothing. They're coming in, they're going to be lazy. And 198 00:14:05,340 --> 00:14:09,150 they still want it all Yeah, entitled, they want they want 199 00:14:09,150 --> 00:14:12,720 the title without doing the work. Well, Gen Z is like the 200 00:14:12,750 --> 00:14:15,810 opposite Gen Z's like coming in and they're like, give me the 201 00:14:15,810 --> 00:14:18,810 work. Give me the work. I want to do it. I want to, they want 202 00:14:18,810 --> 00:14:21,780 the title, but they want to do the work to get to the title. 203 00:14:22,020 --> 00:14:24,690 And they're like, and they're willing to like I read in the 204 00:14:24,690 --> 00:14:27,660 beginning, almost 60% said they're willing to work nights 205 00:14:27,660 --> 00:14:29,820 and weekends. I don't think that was definitely not the 206 00:14:29,820 --> 00:14:33,930 millennials 67% said they're willing to relocate for a job 207 00:14:33,930 --> 00:14:36,810 opportunity. Definitely not the millennials. So yeah, they're 208 00:14:36,840 --> 00:14:39,930 they're convicted but they're they again, they like you keep 209 00:14:39,930 --> 00:14:42,570 saying that they stand by it. They mean it. 210 00:14:42,750 --> 00:14:46,410 Jennifer Servedio: They want opportunity they want and I 211 00:14:46,410 --> 00:14:50,220 think it's it's embedded in them from from their parents, their 212 00:14:50,220 --> 00:14:54,210 parents wanted them to have the things they didn't have. And 213 00:14:55,620 --> 00:15:01,020 yeah, I mean this is the group of of the If that started the 214 00:15:01,050 --> 00:15:04,590 helicopter parents in the lawnmower parents or the parents 215 00:15:04,590 --> 00:15:08,010 standing behind them when they're going to college, sort 216 00:15:08,010 --> 00:15:12,570 of telling them and it's like I know mom right now. Leave me 217 00:15:12,570 --> 00:15:16,080 alone. Mom, I'm in college now. They know and and I think that 218 00:15:16,080 --> 00:15:19,530 scared their parents, right. I think that scared them a lot. 219 00:15:20,340 --> 00:15:23,340 But now they're they're productive people in the 220 00:15:23,340 --> 00:15:25,290 workforce and they're really changing things. 221 00:15:26,160 --> 00:15:30,540 Jason Baum: Yeah, I don't know what the as a i, I define myself 222 00:15:30,540 --> 00:15:34,200 as as any you'll look it up if you're not sure it's in the 223 00:15:34,200 --> 00:15:37,680 Oxford dictionary. So it's a real thing. It's a real thing. I 224 00:15:37,680 --> 00:15:43,770 swear. Those born in between the Gen X and Millennial because it 225 00:15:43,770 --> 00:15:47,730 is different. If you're born in the 80s, especially the early 226 00:15:47,730 --> 00:15:51,600 80s. And those born in the 90s. I do not see how they can 227 00:15:51,600 --> 00:16:00,060 compare analog past digital present and future. So I think 228 00:16:00,060 --> 00:16:05,370 that the differences there right with with xennials When I look 229 00:16:05,370 --> 00:16:10,080 at it, too, is our I look at it as the last generation of that 230 00:16:10,110 --> 00:16:14,670 old guard. We're the latchkey kids. That's how I view that's 231 00:16:14,670 --> 00:16:20,100 how I view us. We were we were raised by the television. No, we 232 00:16:20,100 --> 00:16:24,390 were we were sorry, mom. We were raised by the television. We 233 00:16:24,390 --> 00:16:27,330 were out after school. No one knew where the hell we were. And 234 00:16:27,330 --> 00:16:30,870 they couldn't contact us. That was great. There were no cell 235 00:16:30,870 --> 00:16:33,420 phones. So I mean, very few people had them and they were 236 00:16:33,420 --> 00:16:37,260 the Zack Morris phone and no one can reach you. So when you call 237 00:16:37,290 --> 00:16:41,040 home you called Collect and you did the remember the commercial 238 00:16:41,040 --> 00:16:44,760 the Bob we had a baby It's a boy. Remember that commercial 239 00:16:44,760 --> 00:16:47,940 still so funny. Because you call collect you get that thing in 240 00:16:47,940 --> 00:16:50,970 before the when you record the prop who it is and then you hang 241 00:16:50,970 --> 00:16:54,210 that up before they get charged? Or mom's gonna? Really? Yeah. 242 00:16:54,210 --> 00:16:57,270 Oh, yeah. Yeah, for the collect call. But it's a different 243 00:16:57,270 --> 00:17:01,620 world. And and yeah, so I think growing up that it is so 244 00:17:01,620 --> 00:17:05,400 different than how your parents raised you, and then how you go 245 00:17:05,430 --> 00:17:10,350 in about right the rest of your life. And it's fascinating. So, 246 00:17:10,800 --> 00:17:15,810 how have you seen over the past few years, that transition, you 247 00:17:15,810 --> 00:17:19,320 know, your your students transitioning to students, staff 248 00:17:19,320 --> 00:17:22,560 and then to the professional world? You know, what, what's, 249 00:17:22,590 --> 00:17:29,100 how are Gen Z ers? Handling that transition? What's changing 250 00:17:29,100 --> 00:17:32,280 about them as they handle that transition? Because look, you 251 00:17:32,280 --> 00:17:35,550 could be one way as a student and say whatever you want, and 252 00:17:35,550 --> 00:17:37,650 then when you transition to that professional world, things 253 00:17:37,650 --> 00:17:39,750 change regardless of the generation. 254 00:17:40,650 --> 00:17:45,390 Jennifer Servedio: Yes, they do. So you know, thinking about 255 00:17:45,510 --> 00:17:49,050 students in the classroom, right? They are, I mentioned 256 00:17:49,050 --> 00:17:53,070 before negotiators, right? They negotiate their grades with 257 00:17:53,070 --> 00:17:57,360 their professors, they get what they want out of out of their, 258 00:17:58,350 --> 00:18:02,040 you know, their work, they will argue until they're blue with 259 00:18:02,040 --> 00:18:04,680 what they think it will be. And that carries over into the 260 00:18:04,680 --> 00:18:11,580 workforce a bit. They want constant feedback. So whereas 261 00:18:13,860 --> 00:18:17,340 you know, a manager would have a one on one meeting with with an 262 00:18:17,340 --> 00:18:22,740 employee maybe once every two weeks. Zoomers are always, like, 263 00:18:22,830 --> 00:18:26,010 how did I do? How did that go? Was that good? You know, do I, 264 00:18:27,120 --> 00:18:29,250 like we don't have anything to talk about when we have our 265 00:18:29,250 --> 00:18:34,680 meetings, because you're always here asking me. But it's a good 266 00:18:34,680 --> 00:18:37,290 thing because they don't want to miss out on anything, right? And 267 00:18:37,290 --> 00:18:40,800 it can be exhausting. But you just it's it's something you 268 00:18:40,800 --> 00:18:47,070 learn to as a manager to, to adapt to but you know, when they 269 00:18:47,070 --> 00:18:51,420 hear about something, whether they're qualified for it or not, 270 00:18:51,420 --> 00:18:55,140 they want to go for it. And that could get really frustrating it 271 00:18:55,170 --> 00:18:58,350 for other people in the workforce. I think that co 272 00:18:58,350 --> 00:19:04,050 workers have to learn how to adapt to generation z's. But but 273 00:19:04,050 --> 00:19:09,300 they do, right, because they see value in them. They're good 274 00:19:09,300 --> 00:19:14,370 people, right? They're there. They're family driven. They want 275 00:19:14,370 --> 00:19:22,170 that that collaborative. sort of you know, I spend more time at 276 00:19:22,170 --> 00:19:24,870 the office than I do at home so I kind of want to have friends 277 00:19:24,870 --> 00:19:29,040 at work. You know, that kind of group. They like to do things 278 00:19:29,040 --> 00:19:34,980 together. They like to they travel in packs. You know, 279 00:19:34,980 --> 00:19:40,860 something I read that Gen Z years prefer to work for 280 00:19:40,890 --> 00:19:45,990 millennials. So are saying why? I thought that was neat. I don't 281 00:19:45,990 --> 00:19:49,350 know maybe because like you, you were talking about millennials a 282 00:19:49,350 --> 00:19:53,610 little bit how they kind of maybe they can be manipulated. 283 00:19:53,640 --> 00:19:54,030 That's what 284 00:19:56,160 --> 00:19:58,680 Jason Baum: maybe they don't stand by their value right 285 00:19:58,680 --> 00:20:02,100 there. Yeah, you Well, they can be shaped certainly. Yeah, it's 286 00:20:02,100 --> 00:20:04,950 true. I think they're willing to, though I think that's that 287 00:20:05,100 --> 00:20:08,280 we can reframe it. I think millennials, and we'll probably 288 00:20:08,280 --> 00:20:12,180 get into this. I know in the direction I want to go with our 289 00:20:12,180 --> 00:20:16,890 next few questions, but I think millennials are maybe more open 290 00:20:17,730 --> 00:20:22,320 than some of the other generations perhaps, to adapt 291 00:20:22,380 --> 00:20:27,900 and change to the beliefs that that Gen Z is, is saying, and 292 00:20:27,900 --> 00:20:28,650 convicted it. 293 00:20:29,700 --> 00:20:31,290 Jennifer Servedio: Alright, because previous generation 294 00:20:31,290 --> 00:20:35,310 bosses like, you know, I'm a Gen X, sir, but I would say that I'm 295 00:20:35,310 --> 00:20:39,930 much more open minded, then a lot of people might my age group 296 00:20:40,020 --> 00:20:44,610 for, for managing, I like to be more of a coach. And I actually 297 00:20:44,610 --> 00:20:50,040 do have, I am a sort of five Gallup strengths coach, which I 298 00:20:50,040 --> 00:20:54,690 use with with my team to understand what their, what 299 00:20:54,690 --> 00:20:58,080 their true innate strengths are, and help push them in those 300 00:20:58,080 --> 00:21:03,120 directions. And honestly, when I think about it, my Gen Z are the 301 00:21:03,120 --> 00:21:08,430 ones who really, really, like, absorb that stuff. They really 302 00:21:08,430 --> 00:21:11,700 want to hear more, tell me more about my strengths, and how I 303 00:21:11,700 --> 00:21:12,720 can be even better. 304 00:21:14,069 --> 00:21:15,539 Jason Baum: It's interesting, because that you know that you 305 00:21:15,539 --> 00:21:17,549 bring it up. I do. Remember, I don't know if you remember this, 306 00:21:17,549 --> 00:21:21,509 when the millennials were coming into the workforce, the xennials 307 00:21:21,509 --> 00:21:27,089 and millennials, and they had an article about how they get along 308 00:21:27,089 --> 00:21:32,219 better with members of the greatest generation than they do 309 00:21:32,249 --> 00:21:35,219 with the others that were definitely not Gen X. 310 00:21:36,269 --> 00:21:41,729 Interesting. And, and certainly not with boomers, because they 311 00:21:41,729 --> 00:21:46,709 remind them of their parents, I think that's my guess. But the I 312 00:21:46,709 --> 00:21:48,659 always thought that was fascinating, too. And I think 313 00:21:48,659 --> 00:21:53,849 that still stands true. I don't know. And, and we could talk 314 00:21:53,849 --> 00:21:56,279 about this, I guess in a bit, but what I'm thinking about when 315 00:21:56,789 --> 00:22:00,149 I told you that we're gonna go all over sometimes on this show, 316 00:22:00,749 --> 00:22:05,369 just stay with it, and you'll have fun. Boomers now that when 317 00:22:05,369 --> 00:22:11,039 I bring them up, that's a convicted group, like, in their 318 00:22:11,039 --> 00:22:18,029 strong feelings, certainly their past of protest, and, you know, 319 00:22:18,119 --> 00:22:21,329 histories, you know, there's there's nothing new in history, 320 00:22:21,509 --> 00:22:25,649 right? You know, it's the past is always going to repeat 321 00:22:25,649 --> 00:22:28,649 itself. And I feel like in some ways, we're kind of getting the 322 00:22:28,649 --> 00:22:31,829 newest generation of the boomers in some ways when they were 323 00:22:31,829 --> 00:22:35,969 kids. Now, you look at the boomers now, I'll say, wow, how 324 00:22:35,969 --> 00:22:44,369 did and I won't say any names. But my parents, those who I know 325 00:22:44,369 --> 00:22:48,329 who are the boomer generation, and went from pot smoking 326 00:22:48,329 --> 00:22:54,419 hippies, in the 60s, who listened to, you know, music 327 00:22:54,419 --> 00:22:58,919 that their parents did not approve of, to very hardline 328 00:22:58,919 --> 00:23:03,089 conservatives, and have much more conservative values, I 329 00:23:03,089 --> 00:23:07,019 would say, then some of these younger generations. Wow, that's 330 00:23:07,019 --> 00:23:11,069 an about face. And I think about like, Wow, are, are we just a 331 00:23:11,069 --> 00:23:15,749 product of where we are in our life from a time perspective? Or 332 00:23:15,749 --> 00:23:18,869 like, are these gender or generations? Like, are they 333 00:23:18,869 --> 00:23:20,609 going to maintain these beliefs? 334 00:23:22,020 --> 00:23:24,210 Jennifer Servedio: That's a really good, good thought. I 335 00:23:24,210 --> 00:23:29,130 mean, I would hope that I would hope that things are going to 336 00:23:29,130 --> 00:23:34,920 continue to move forward with, you know, being advocates 337 00:23:34,950 --> 00:23:41,100 supporting diversity growing. I just Simplot like I live in 338 00:23:41,100 --> 00:23:44,550 central Pennsylvania right now. And sometimes, you know, I come 339 00:23:44,550 --> 00:23:48,000 across people, it's like, how have you even been here this 340 00:23:48,000 --> 00:23:53,010 long? With those thoughts? You know, it's sort of it sort of 341 00:23:53,010 --> 00:23:58,530 brings you back into reality, like, wow. You know, I would 342 00:23:58,530 --> 00:24:03,210 hope that that we would, that will continue with with our Gen 343 00:24:03,210 --> 00:24:08,430 Z years now having having children and, you know, creating 344 00:24:08,430 --> 00:24:12,540 a population of, of good human beings who will continue those, 345 00:24:13,470 --> 00:24:16,950 you know, those values. I hope that that's, that's going on. I 346 00:24:16,950 --> 00:24:20,370 mean, you know, you talked about boomers, boomers, parents were 347 00:24:20,400 --> 00:24:23,280 that was like the silent generation, right? You didn't 348 00:24:23,280 --> 00:24:26,760 hug your kids or say you love them, because you know, that's 349 00:24:26,790 --> 00:24:30,480 you're supposed to, because, you know, they wouldn't be good 350 00:24:30,480 --> 00:24:31,530 people if you did that. 351 00:24:32,339 --> 00:24:34,139 Jason Baum: It should be seen not heard. 352 00:24:34,230 --> 00:24:36,540 Jennifer Servedio: Yes, yeah. When you, you know, I was right 353 00:24:36,540 --> 00:24:39,300 on the tail end of that. I was the youngest of six why I'm the 354 00:24:39,300 --> 00:24:44,100 youngest of six. But you know, it was like, I was the one with 355 00:24:44,100 --> 00:24:48,360 the mouth. And it's because I was, you know, right at the 356 00:24:48,360 --> 00:24:52,410 beginning of that next generation, and yeah, your kids 357 00:24:52,410 --> 00:24:56,250 are seen and not heard and oh boy. Yeah, we need to we need to 358 00:24:56,250 --> 00:24:57,360 forget that ever happened. 359 00:24:57,480 --> 00:25:00,780 Jason Baum: Yeah, that wasn't my grandparents, man. I love my 360 00:25:00,780 --> 00:25:03,690 grandparents to death, but that it's the product of the times a 361 00:25:03,690 --> 00:25:04,680 little bit. All right? 362 00:25:04,829 --> 00:25:07,199 Jennifer Servedio: Yes, it absolutely is. And you know, 363 00:25:07,199 --> 00:25:11,519 it's really funny I hear lots of people always blame the schools, 364 00:25:11,519 --> 00:25:14,669 right? Oh, all the kids are like that, because that's what 365 00:25:14,669 --> 00:25:19,319 they're teaching them in school. And yeah, and it's like, well, 366 00:25:19,319 --> 00:25:21,899 it has to come from from multiple places, right? They're 367 00:25:21,899 --> 00:25:26,939 teaching them to be good humans at home, and, and, you know, and 368 00:25:26,939 --> 00:25:29,999 in school and enforcing that throughout their lives. But 369 00:25:31,199 --> 00:25:37,319 yeah, I just, it's a unique generation I enjoy working with. 370 00:25:38,819 --> 00:25:44,219 With this generation of new employees, I think that they're 371 00:25:44,249 --> 00:25:51,569 like, in technology, I can hire someone entry level, who has an 372 00:25:51,569 --> 00:25:56,999 associate's degree or something. Who can do they get the tech, 373 00:25:56,999 --> 00:26:00,689 right, they get it, they always had technology, they've never 374 00:26:00,959 --> 00:26:05,129 gone a day in their life without a screen in front of them. And 375 00:26:05,699 --> 00:26:08,309 they get it, the only thing I have to teach them is how to do 376 00:26:08,309 --> 00:26:09,749 things the way we do it here. 377 00:26:11,460 --> 00:26:14,040 Jason Baum: The tools we use as a team have a direct influence 378 00:26:14,040 --> 00:26:17,400 on how we work together on the success we create. We built 379 00:26:17,400 --> 00:26:20,370 range with that in mind, by balancing asynchronous check 380 00:26:20,370 --> 00:26:22,680 ins, and a real time collaboration. Range helps 381 00:26:22,680 --> 00:26:25,380 remote and hybrid dev teams build alignment and put time 382 00:26:25,380 --> 00:26:28,500 back on the calendar, branch connects and dozens of apps like 383 00:26:28,500 --> 00:26:31,620 JIRA and GitHub in one place. So everyone can share updates on 384 00:26:31,620 --> 00:26:34,770 work, and even makes it easier to run focused, efficient 385 00:26:34,770 --> 00:26:38,220 meetings with an easy to use facilitation to create greater 386 00:26:38,220 --> 00:26:41,370 team success and engagement by bringing focus and a bit of fun 387 00:26:41,370 --> 00:26:45,660 back to your work. Visit us range.com/devops To learn more, 388 00:26:45,660 --> 00:26:46,530 and try range free. 389 00:26:49,079 --> 00:26:51,329 Jennifer Servedio: And they thrive. It's just amazing. 390 00:26:51,390 --> 00:26:53,940 Jason Baum: Isn't it fascinating. And my wife and I 391 00:26:53,940 --> 00:26:56,670 just literally had this conversation with with friends. 392 00:26:56,670 --> 00:26:59,790 There's the dude, have you heard of the wait till they're eight 393 00:26:59,820 --> 00:27:06,690 movement? No. So it's yeah, it's an IT. So for alpha. Wait till 394 00:27:06,690 --> 00:27:09,300 they're eight it's wait to give them a cell phone until they're 395 00:27:09,300 --> 00:27:12,450 eight that boggles my mind. First of all, that their first 396 00:27:12,450 --> 00:27:15,780 of all, like that they have cell phones prior to eight because I 397 00:27:15,780 --> 00:27:23,460 didn't have one until college. I mean, wow. And then and, and 398 00:27:23,460 --> 00:27:26,730 then we were talking about leaving, you leave, like we have 399 00:27:26,790 --> 00:27:30,600 an iPad? You leave that out? My daughter? Can she's four and a 400 00:27:30,600 --> 00:27:34,380 half, she could scroll through and get to YouTube and pull up 401 00:27:34,380 --> 00:27:39,420 her favorite videos on her own just because it was there. Yeah, 402 00:27:39,450 --> 00:27:43,290 they are. And no one taught her to do that, by the way. Like 403 00:27:43,290 --> 00:27:45,060 they just they just know. 404 00:27:45,449 --> 00:27:48,089 Jennifer Servedio: Yeah, they do. It's scary. It's scary. But 405 00:27:48,239 --> 00:27:51,959 but just think of the opportunity, right, and they're 406 00:27:51,989 --> 00:27:57,989 addicted to devices. We have to plan on every student that walks 407 00:27:57,989 --> 00:28:00,929 through the door to have at least five devices that will be 408 00:28:01,349 --> 00:28:04,019 connected to our wireless network all the time. 409 00:28:07,230 --> 00:28:11,550 Jason Baum: Wow. So going back to where we were a little bit 410 00:28:11,550 --> 00:28:15,030 before, and some of those values and what they're being taught. 411 00:28:16,620 --> 00:28:19,140 And certainly, you know, we've touched on some of them because 412 00:28:19,140 --> 00:28:24,120 I do believe the tech industry, ironically to me, is on is 413 00:28:24,120 --> 00:28:27,240 really on the forefront of the change that's happening in the 414 00:28:27,240 --> 00:28:30,840 workforce with things like psychological safety, workplace 415 00:28:30,840 --> 00:28:34,320 culture issues, really getting to the heart of it, because 416 00:28:34,320 --> 00:28:39,360 look, it's been bad for a while, you know, the the burnout and 417 00:28:39,360 --> 00:28:43,080 all that and burnout is still a problem. But at least it's being 418 00:28:43,080 --> 00:28:46,620 identified as being called out. It's not like the culture of you 419 00:28:46,620 --> 00:28:49,650 know, when like when Zuckerberg started Facebook, and we're 420 00:28:49,650 --> 00:28:52,920 gonna put a ping pong table, a basketball court, a spa, or 421 00:28:52,920 --> 00:28:55,380 whatever in here, but you kind of work here all like you're 422 00:28:55,380 --> 00:28:58,860 pretty much here all day. You know, that? Thankfully, that's 423 00:28:58,890 --> 00:29:04,230 that's not as much of the culture anymore. And then 424 00:29:04,230 --> 00:29:08,100 obviously diversity and inclusion. And, you know, with 425 00:29:08,130 --> 00:29:12,600 with Gen Z, I'm wondering how do they approach diversity, equity 426 00:29:12,600 --> 00:29:17,970 and inclusion? And what impact do you think they'll have on the 427 00:29:17,970 --> 00:29:19,260 rest of the workforce? 428 00:29:21,690 --> 00:29:26,790 Jennifer Servedio: So just like technology is something that has 429 00:29:26,790 --> 00:29:32,610 always been available. This generation does not know the 430 00:29:32,610 --> 00:29:37,860 bias that previous generations have encountered and have grown 431 00:29:37,860 --> 00:29:44,160 up knowing. And I think that it causes I don't want to say it 432 00:29:44,160 --> 00:29:49,980 causes conflict in the workplace, but people walk away 433 00:29:49,980 --> 00:29:52,680 feeling I think different generations walk away feeling 434 00:29:52,680 --> 00:29:56,910 like they are, you know, racists and it's like they take it to 435 00:29:56,910 --> 00:29:59,550 that extreme. And it's like, wait a minute, no, just 436 00:29:59,550 --> 00:30:01,050 Jason Baum: step back. canceled culture, 437 00:30:01,289 --> 00:30:03,389 Jennifer Servedio: right? Something, something that that I 438 00:30:03,389 --> 00:30:10,769 do absolutely is create a culture where people can, people 439 00:30:10,769 --> 00:30:15,389 can respect each other's opinions. And, you know, it 440 00:30:15,389 --> 00:30:19,889 could be alert, there can be learning moments. Something that 441 00:30:19,889 --> 00:30:25,889 we try to do as a team is I let I let different people pick TED 442 00:30:25,889 --> 00:30:29,459 Talks and, and things around diversity. And we'll watch them 443 00:30:29,459 --> 00:30:32,579 as a group. And we'll talk about them as a group, which I think 444 00:30:32,579 --> 00:30:36,869 is helpful, because then they can see differences of opinion 445 00:30:37,019 --> 00:30:42,419 and sort of have, you know, sit in it with each other, let's 446 00:30:42,419 --> 00:30:45,539 have empathy. And let's see where people are coming from and 447 00:30:45,539 --> 00:30:48,209 talk through, you know, why would you feel that way? Because 448 00:30:48,209 --> 00:30:51,539 a lot of times when you ask those questions, well, why do 449 00:30:51,539 --> 00:30:55,079 you feel that way? People don't know. And that tells me, you 450 00:30:55,079 --> 00:30:57,089 know, that makes them second guessed, wait a minute, this is 451 00:30:57,089 --> 00:31:00,629 something that I've just always thought growing up? And I have 452 00:31:00,629 --> 00:31:07,709 no, I have no, you know, nothing concrete to put against it. I 453 00:31:07,709 --> 00:31:12,629 think that it helps other generations grow the their 454 00:31:12,629 --> 00:31:17,429 commitment to diversity, you know, their commitment to 455 00:31:17,429 --> 00:31:20,189 inclusion, their their commitment to make sure that, 456 00:31:20,519 --> 00:31:23,549 that the right people are in the room when the conversations are 457 00:31:23,549 --> 00:31:28,799 happening. To make sure that everybody's represented, I think 458 00:31:28,799 --> 00:31:32,549 that's, that's, that's wonderful, where I see it, I 459 00:31:32,549 --> 00:31:35,609 really enjoy that, that people are looking out for that. But 460 00:31:35,609 --> 00:31:41,579 I'm not the only one. You know, there, this generation questions 461 00:31:41,609 --> 00:31:45,839 of authority, that's something that I think about a lot, right? 462 00:31:48,059 --> 00:31:52,589 When you think, getting pulled over, right, if you're speeding, 463 00:31:52,649 --> 00:31:55,769 and it's okay, here's my, you know, I can remember like being 464 00:31:56,339 --> 00:31:59,249 in the age group and being terrified, like, Oh, my God, 465 00:31:59,729 --> 00:32:02,039 here's my license registration, I'm not going to say a word, you 466 00:32:02,039 --> 00:32:06,659 know, imagine somebody being afraid, they're getting pulled 467 00:32:06,659 --> 00:32:09,959 over, that they're going to be harassed for the color of their 468 00:32:09,959 --> 00:32:13,289 skin or, or something like that, like just having those 469 00:32:13,289 --> 00:32:16,229 conversations with these different generations is so 470 00:32:16,229 --> 00:32:20,849 important. Just for growth, because you know, these are, 471 00:32:21,209 --> 00:32:24,989 these are kids are Gen z's, who are having kids who don't want 472 00:32:25,019 --> 00:32:28,769 their kids exposed to grandparents who, who have 473 00:32:29,399 --> 00:32:34,409 values very different from what they have, right? Going into, 474 00:32:34,439 --> 00:32:38,459 into different situations where they could be exposed, and then, 475 00:32:38,939 --> 00:32:41,489 you know, them questioning things as a little kid, and 476 00:32:41,489 --> 00:32:44,909 then, you know, I don't know, it's, it's just, it seems like 477 00:32:44,909 --> 00:32:48,089 it could be, things could be so much better. And I think this 478 00:32:48,089 --> 00:32:49,529 generation is actually going to do it. 479 00:32:49,830 --> 00:32:52,020 Jason Baum: Do you think so? I hope so 480 00:32:52,020 --> 00:32:56,490 Jennifer Servedio: a lot of hope. I'm around a lot of people 481 00:32:56,490 --> 00:33:00,750 in this age group all the time. And I just I walk away feeling 482 00:33:00,750 --> 00:33:02,820 like, wow, they get it. Right. 483 00:33:02,970 --> 00:33:04,710 Jason Baum: I thought it was gonna be millennials. I really 484 00:33:04,710 --> 00:33:07,470 did. And but you know, what goes back to what we were saying 485 00:33:07,470 --> 00:33:10,770 about millennials and others. Yeah, 486 00:33:11,100 --> 00:33:13,050 Jennifer Servedio: I don't know. Hey, my generation we used to 487 00:33:13,080 --> 00:33:14,820 glue in kindergarten and 488 00:33:18,599 --> 00:33:21,629 Jason Baum: Well, I think ours won't even get into it. 489 00:33:21,660 --> 00:33:23,130 Jennifer Servedio: I don't know what it is. Jason, you just 490 00:33:23,130 --> 00:33:24,090 bring this out in me. 491 00:33:25,470 --> 00:33:28,980 Jason Baum: I have that habit. Yeah, well, I said it in the 492 00:33:28,980 --> 00:33:31,470 beginning of the podcast, I gave that, you know, they are the 493 00:33:31,470 --> 00:33:35,310 most racially and ethnically diverse generation in US 494 00:33:35,310 --> 00:33:39,960 history. So certainly their makeup is different, and like, 495 00:33:40,230 --> 00:33:46,170 actually different. And so I'm gonna go back to that Forbes 496 00:33:46,290 --> 00:33:49,020 survey, and maybe this will be surprising to you, maybe it 497 00:33:49,020 --> 00:33:55,530 won't be. But according to them, 67% of Gen Z workers reported 498 00:33:55,530 --> 00:33:59,190 having witnessed discrimination or bias based on race, 499 00:33:59,220 --> 00:34:03,120 ethnicity, sexual orientation or gender identity in a workplace 500 00:34:03,120 --> 00:34:09,210 setting. 44% of them report having personally experienced 501 00:34:09,210 --> 00:34:17,910 it. They also say in this, that 69% stated that they would 502 00:34:17,940 --> 00:34:21,930 absolutely be more likely to apply to a job at a company that 503 00:34:21,930 --> 00:34:25,470 emphasized a racially and ethnically diverse workplace in 504 00:34:25,470 --> 00:34:33,720 the recruitment materials was 70% 88% of them felt that a 505 00:34:33,720 --> 00:34:36,660 recruiter or potential employer should solicit their gender 506 00:34:36,660 --> 00:34:42,690 pronouns. And he, that's these numbers. I mean, they're almost 507 00:34:42,780 --> 00:34:47,940 100% agreement. And then they said that 65% reported feeling 508 00:34:47,940 --> 00:34:50,970 strongly that such questions about gender pronouns should be 509 00:34:50,970 --> 00:34:56,460 part of the recruitment process. But despite their expectations, 510 00:34:56,580 --> 00:35:00,300 only 18% said that they were asked about their gender 511 00:35:00,300 --> 00:35:06,030 pronouns by recruiter. So we do not get this generation. No, no, 512 00:35:06,090 --> 00:35:11,250 we're not there yet. They're there. And they're like, all 513 00:35:11,250 --> 00:35:17,550 they're pretty much. And we are, we are way by way behind them. 514 00:35:18,300 --> 00:35:18,930 Clearly. 515 00:35:20,100 --> 00:35:22,440 Jennifer Servedio: What those sticks tell me is that they're 516 00:35:22,440 --> 00:35:28,470 very, they're mindful of other people, they value the human 517 00:35:28,530 --> 00:35:32,220 connection, right? I want to know what your pronouns are, 518 00:35:32,220 --> 00:35:36,300 because I don't want to misspeak and hurt your feelings. And I 519 00:35:36,300 --> 00:35:40,440 see that all the time on a college campus, much more 520 00:35:40,440 --> 00:35:44,460 empathetic. Absolutely, absolutely. They they definitely 521 00:35:44,460 --> 00:35:48,120 feel for people and they're there for people, they back them 522 00:35:48,120 --> 00:35:49,320 up. I like that. 523 00:35:52,560 --> 00:35:54,990 Jason Baum: You know, coming into the workforce, as always, 524 00:35:55,290 --> 00:35:58,470 it's always a transit is a huge transition, right? You know, 525 00:35:58,470 --> 00:36:03,420 going from pretty much a life of being in school. Yeah, in school 526 00:36:03,420 --> 00:36:08,370 your whole life. To now, it's very different in the workforce. 527 00:36:09,540 --> 00:36:15,720 It's like a whole new jungle, right? And a new set of rules. 528 00:36:16,920 --> 00:36:21,330 And also, now, things that are happening, the socio economical 529 00:36:21,330 --> 00:36:25,800 things that are taking place, impact you a lot more, you're 530 00:36:25,800 --> 00:36:30,540 moving out possibly around that time. You're not leaning on your 531 00:36:30,540 --> 00:36:35,190 parents nearly as much anymore. So yeah, the weight of the world 532 00:36:35,190 --> 00:36:39,090 is now on your shoulders. And so things that are going on make a 533 00:36:39,090 --> 00:36:42,750 big impact. So like for myself, I could say, you know, coming 534 00:36:42,750 --> 00:36:47,910 into the workforce, it was the we were pretty much in the 535 00:36:48,660 --> 00:36:55,050 beginnings, beginnings of the Second Gulf War. And I know, 536 00:36:55,440 --> 00:37:01,290 shortly thereafter, people were coming in in 2008. It was an 537 00:37:01,290 --> 00:37:06,570 economic just the complete collapse and and recession of 538 00:37:06,570 --> 00:37:10,980 the economy. And, you know, the worst one we've had since since 539 00:37:11,010 --> 00:37:15,660 the Great Depression. And that shaped a lot of people for Gen 540 00:37:15,660 --> 00:37:20,160 Z, who's coming into the workforce right now. They've 541 00:37:20,160 --> 00:37:24,840 never been in an office. No, Jen's ears. If you look at the 542 00:37:24,840 --> 00:37:30,630 if you go by the age bracket I was talking about, that means 543 00:37:30,630 --> 00:37:35,160 they're probably around 20 to 23. Depends on how, yes, they've 544 00:37:35,160 --> 00:37:39,240 never been in an office then. Or perhaps some have if they're 545 00:37:39,240 --> 00:37:42,600 going to an office that's that never went remote. But a good 546 00:37:42,600 --> 00:37:47,400 chunk, never stepped foot in an office. And now they're being 547 00:37:47,400 --> 00:37:51,150 asked to go back, I read you that stat on hybrid, they want 548 00:37:51,150 --> 00:37:56,100 to go back, I can imagine why. So certainly, this is a 549 00:37:56,130 --> 00:37:59,790 different transition for them, I think, than any of the others. 550 00:38:01,140 --> 00:38:06,450 So with that said, what type of successes or struggles have you 551 00:38:06,450 --> 00:38:08,790 seen with this age group dealing with that? 552 00:38:10,680 --> 00:38:15,540 Jennifer Servedio: So when we did go remote, every everyone, 553 00:38:15,900 --> 00:38:19,620 there was always the misconception that jobs can jobs 554 00:38:19,620 --> 00:38:22,710 can't be done remote jobs, and it cannot be done remote. Well, 555 00:38:22,740 --> 00:38:25,770 unless you're physically having to touch a piece of hardware. 556 00:38:26,580 --> 00:38:30,210 For someone your job certainly can be remote, at least part of 557 00:38:30,210 --> 00:38:38,220 the time. This generation showed us that they know how to work 558 00:38:38,250 --> 00:38:43,620 remotely, right? They know how to be productive in a remote 559 00:38:43,620 --> 00:38:47,730 setting, do they want to be isolated? They don't right now 560 00:38:47,730 --> 00:38:53,460 all of them, I can't speak for all of them. I do have a person 561 00:38:53,460 --> 00:38:57,900 who's working for me now who the position is is a remote position 562 00:38:57,900 --> 00:38:59,970 and they said you know what, I want to come in a few days a 563 00:38:59,970 --> 00:39:04,530 week. Okay, that's great. They love being part of the team 564 00:39:04,560 --> 00:39:09,750 being here. And now just purchased a home in the area and 565 00:39:09,750 --> 00:39:13,740 we'll be here full time can actually walk to the office. So 566 00:39:13,740 --> 00:39:17,970 it's it's you know, but then you have people who want to be fully 567 00:39:17,970 --> 00:39:24,780 remote and yeah, it just depends on on what they're they're used 568 00:39:24,780 --> 00:39:28,530 to I would say people who live in rural areas do not want to 569 00:39:28,530 --> 00:39:33,180 work remote. They want to be with people people in more you 570 00:39:33,180 --> 00:39:38,370 know urban settings can work in a remote situation and then walk 571 00:39:38,370 --> 00:39:42,600 out the door and be near people so it just depends on what what 572 00:39:42,600 --> 00:39:47,670 the work is and who it is. I do know that a lot of people in 573 00:39:47,670 --> 00:39:50,580 different generations think they can work remote but they really 574 00:39:50,580 --> 00:39:54,120 don't know how to. So this is really the first generation that 575 00:39:54,120 --> 00:39:57,870 knows how to work remotely because that's been that's been 576 00:39:57,870 --> 00:39:58,260 their 577 00:39:58,350 --> 00:40:00,540 Jason Baum: their home many ways they've been preparing For this 578 00:40:00,570 --> 00:40:01,620 their whole lives they 579 00:40:01,620 --> 00:40:09,030 Jennifer Servedio: have Right, right. Oh my gosh. Yeah. So that 580 00:40:09,030 --> 00:40:14,220 I think that that's, that's, I mean, that's something that that 581 00:40:14,220 --> 00:40:19,050 speaks to the type of people they are because they want to be 582 00:40:19,050 --> 00:40:21,300 there, they want the opportunity, right, you're gonna 583 00:40:21,300 --> 00:40:25,470 miss the opportunity if you're not there. And I think that's 584 00:40:25,500 --> 00:40:28,860 and they also want to connect, they really do want to connect 585 00:40:29,490 --> 00:40:32,070 their life is networking, whether it's it's on their 586 00:40:32,070 --> 00:40:35,640 mobile device or in person, they do know how to, they know how to 587 00:40:35,640 --> 00:40:36,570 connect with people. 588 00:40:37,680 --> 00:40:39,540 Jason Baum: Gosh, I can think back to coming into the 589 00:40:39,540 --> 00:40:43,800 workforce and just the nuances that you pick up the office, the 590 00:40:43,800 --> 00:40:48,510 workplace culture, the the, I should say, the office culture. 591 00:40:53,460 --> 00:40:56,580 Going to the lunch room, and watching TV with your 592 00:40:56,580 --> 00:41:03,390 colleagues, going out to lunch with your colleagues. You know, 593 00:41:03,390 --> 00:41:08,580 there's so many things that, you know, earlier in your career, I 594 00:41:08,580 --> 00:41:12,960 mean, ever, someone wants told me a recruiter told me that's 595 00:41:12,960 --> 00:41:15,840 the majority of people don't get their jobs by applying to them, 596 00:41:15,840 --> 00:41:18,720 they get them from people that they already knew. It's through 597 00:41:18,720 --> 00:41:21,030 connections, right? So relationship building, so in 598 00:41:21,030 --> 00:41:23,220 some ways, Gen Z should be prepared to do this, because 599 00:41:23,220 --> 00:41:27,540 they enjoy it. But another way is I maybe I shouldn't based on 600 00:41:27,570 --> 00:41:30,060 our conversation, I kind of feel better than I did before about 601 00:41:30,060 --> 00:41:33,330 Gen Z with with this because I was worried about them. Because 602 00:41:33,330 --> 00:41:37,860 I'm like, you know, I don't know if I would be in my spot in my 603 00:41:37,860 --> 00:41:44,310 career without those early days of networking. And, and I don't 604 00:41:44,310 --> 00:41:47,430 mean just networking, going to a networking event. I mean, like 605 00:41:47,460 --> 00:41:50,850 in the office networking, talking to everyone getting to 606 00:41:50,850 --> 00:41:53,220 know everyone learning about what they do for their job, 607 00:41:53,250 --> 00:41:56,100 people that you know, you have an internship, but that's 608 00:41:56,100 --> 00:42:00,060 nothing compared to once you're an actual employee their full 609 00:42:00,060 --> 00:42:04,890 time every single day. So I wonder what they're missing? Is 610 00:42:04,890 --> 00:42:08,940 that going to hurt them down the line? Or is it a non issue? 611 00:42:08,940 --> 00:42:10,740 Because it's just a different time? 612 00:42:12,990 --> 00:42:15,450 Jennifer Servedio: That's a tough question. Because so I'm 613 00:42:15,450 --> 00:42:19,860 used to managing people face to face. And I know in the 614 00:42:19,860 --> 00:42:25,950 beginning of lockdown. You know, when we were all, we were still 615 00:42:25,950 --> 00:42:30,960 all in the same sort of venue, just zoom, right? We weren't all 616 00:42:30,960 --> 00:42:33,480 sitting in the same room, but we were all there together. It was 617 00:42:33,480 --> 00:42:38,160 not hybrid. When we went to hybrid, it was so easy to forget 618 00:42:38,160 --> 00:42:41,400 that person who was remote. Right? We're having meetings, 619 00:42:41,400 --> 00:42:44,850 it's like, oh, no, did so and so bring a laptop. So, you know, we 620 00:42:44,850 --> 00:42:50,610 can we can zoom? You know, John in or something? I think that 621 00:42:50,610 --> 00:42:55,110 there, it depends on the culture, where, where the person 622 00:42:55,110 --> 00:42:58,080 is working. So that's something that I've been very, very 623 00:42:58,080 --> 00:43:03,990 mindful of, as we move forward with more remote workers, is how 624 00:43:03,990 --> 00:43:08,250 we, how we function in a hybrid mode and how we keep those 625 00:43:08,250 --> 00:43:12,810 people. You know, part of the day to day? 626 00:43:13,740 --> 00:43:17,970 Jason Baum: Yeah, for those of us managers, directors, VPS, 627 00:43:18,000 --> 00:43:23,280 CEOs, wherever, talk to your gen Zers they need they're going to 628 00:43:23,280 --> 00:43:28,800 need the nurturer meant just like just like we got and and 629 00:43:28,800 --> 00:43:31,620 they might not know how to. Although now it sounds like they 630 00:43:31,620 --> 00:43:34,380 do know how to ask for it. But maybe they don't you know, maybe 631 00:43:34,380 --> 00:43:36,930 they're not maybe they're not asking the right question help 632 00:43:36,930 --> 00:43:40,770 them Oh, my gosh, help them because I do fear that there are 633 00:43:40,800 --> 00:43:43,680 things that they're going to miss out. Hopefully with this 634 00:43:43,680 --> 00:43:46,470 return. Now, it does seem like there's some you know, with with 635 00:43:46,470 --> 00:43:50,490 hybrid and getting back to some some in person, hopefully that 636 00:43:50,520 --> 00:43:56,310 that will. These were just a was all just a dream as to years 637 00:43:56,310 --> 00:44:01,620 when I be nice. So shifting gears a little bit. Maybe you 638 00:44:01,620 --> 00:44:05,460 could share with us just like from your own experience, you 639 00:44:05,460 --> 00:44:08,880 know, working with a Gen Z employee, maybe sharing like 640 00:44:08,910 --> 00:44:13,140 what particular success you've had, and then maybe where you've 641 00:44:13,140 --> 00:44:13,770 struggled. 642 00:44:15,449 --> 00:44:19,919 Jennifer Servedio: Absolutely. So gosh, just success. I would 643 00:44:19,919 --> 00:44:25,139 say this would be a success for me if I was a life coach or a 644 00:44:25,139 --> 00:44:32,219 career coach, right? So my my Gen Z years will come to me to 645 00:44:32,219 --> 00:44:36,779 ask for references. Will I be a reference for a different job 646 00:44:36,809 --> 00:44:40,589 somewhere else? And it's like, how did that happen? Like well, 647 00:44:40,589 --> 00:44:45,059 you're always so supportive, and you're always pushing me to grow 648 00:44:45,059 --> 00:44:52,439 and I'm always sending articles about being having you know, 649 00:44:52,439 --> 00:44:56,159 being brave asking questions. You know, that whole thing like 650 00:44:56,159 --> 00:45:02,069 reinforcing their beliefs. And it's like, you know, you have to 651 00:45:02,069 --> 00:45:05,369 go out and look for opportunity, it's not going to come and find 652 00:45:05,369 --> 00:45:08,339 you. Sometimes it does. But most of the time you have to find it. 653 00:45:08,849 --> 00:45:14,549 And just having those, those coaching sessions with my team 654 00:45:14,549 --> 00:45:19,829 members, you know, they will come to me and say, Jen, I got 655 00:45:19,829 --> 00:45:22,589 an offer from someone, what do I do? It's like, alright, let's 656 00:45:22,589 --> 00:45:24,659 sit down and talk through it, let's figure out what you want 657 00:45:24,659 --> 00:45:28,169 to do. I don't want you to go, but I want you to be successful. 658 00:45:28,469 --> 00:45:34,919 So you know, that happens. And unfortunately, you just you, we 659 00:45:34,919 --> 00:45:38,159 have to move on when they leave. But you know, that's a great 660 00:45:38,159 --> 00:45:40,769 thing for them. Because they'll pass that on to people who work 661 00:45:40,769 --> 00:45:46,019 for them down the road, right? They'll help them grow. You 662 00:45:46,019 --> 00:45:49,979 know, somewhere where we fail, I can think during during the 663 00:45:49,979 --> 00:45:56,849 pandemic, just not being able to have that. I like to walk around 664 00:45:56,849 --> 00:45:59,969 and see everybody in the office in the morning. It's one of my 665 00:45:59,969 --> 00:46:02,609 things everybody's like, so how long have you really been here 666 00:46:02,609 --> 00:46:06,449 because you're just getting to your office, stopping and, you 667 00:46:06,449 --> 00:46:09,869 know, waving hello, how's everything, how's this going 668 00:46:09,869 --> 00:46:14,279 out, you know, finding out about their family. That's important 669 00:46:14,279 --> 00:46:16,319 to me. And I think that connection is important to them. 670 00:46:16,649 --> 00:46:18,599 And I think those are things that were lacking during 671 00:46:18,599 --> 00:46:25,739 lockdown that people missed. And, and I may have lost some 672 00:46:25,739 --> 00:46:29,249 people during that time, hopefully gain them back when 673 00:46:29,249 --> 00:46:33,599 they we got back together. But I just think that people suffered 674 00:46:33,599 --> 00:46:39,899 during that time. And being the Gen X or that I, you know, work 675 00:46:39,899 --> 00:46:47,339 myself to death. And I feel responsible for that. I try to 676 00:46:47,339 --> 00:46:50,459 be mindful, I try to create a culture where everybody feels 677 00:46:50,459 --> 00:46:54,059 like, I'm not just listening to them, but I'm hearing what 678 00:46:54,059 --> 00:46:58,349 they're saying. And I'm hearing what they want to do and guiding 679 00:46:58,349 --> 00:47:00,629 them in ways to get to get there. 680 00:47:01,920 --> 00:47:03,390 Jason Baum: You sound like a Gen Z or? 681 00:47:06,270 --> 00:47:09,330 Jennifer Servedio: Yeah, I was born in the wrong era. I think 682 00:47:09,330 --> 00:47:11,850 it's from being in higher education for so long being 683 00:47:11,850 --> 00:47:15,360 around the different students. And really being like, we just 684 00:47:15,360 --> 00:47:19,170 had our commencement and it's just so it's just that that 685 00:47:19,170 --> 00:47:22,470 proud moment to see, you know, all of these people all the work 686 00:47:22,710 --> 00:47:27,000 they've done, and just, you know, on the cusp of the next, 687 00:47:27,210 --> 00:47:29,880 the next opportunity and how exciting that is. 688 00:47:30,270 --> 00:47:32,310 Jason Baum: It's the one thing that we really tried to install 689 00:47:32,310 --> 00:47:35,430 on my own daughter is kindness, kindness, kindness, kindness, my 690 00:47:35,640 --> 00:47:41,610 mind. Yes, kindness. Okay, so we're a Jen, thank you so much. 691 00:47:41,610 --> 00:47:44,640 I really have enjoyed, you know, having this conversation with 692 00:47:44,640 --> 00:47:48,000 you about Gen Z and, and generations. And I hope you'll 693 00:47:48,000 --> 00:47:51,030 come back. I think we have more work to do on this. I think 694 00:47:51,030 --> 00:47:54,570 there's a lot that we could get into when it comes to the 695 00:47:54,570 --> 00:47:57,900 generations, not just Gen Z, we kind of touched on some give a 696 00:47:58,110 --> 00:48:00,420 little glimpse of some of the other things that we could talk 697 00:48:00,420 --> 00:48:03,480 I want to I mean, there's so much to say about generation, so 698 00:48:03,630 --> 00:48:04,470 I really appreciate 699 00:48:04,470 --> 00:48:06,960 Jennifer Servedio: it. No, thank you for having me. This was fun. 700 00:48:07,170 --> 00:48:07,770 Before 701 00:48:07,770 --> 00:48:10,800 Jason Baum: we go, though, I don't let my guests off the hook 702 00:48:10,800 --> 00:48:14,970 that easy. I always ask a closing question. We don't give 703 00:48:14,970 --> 00:48:17,940 this to you in advance. Maybe we should because I sometimes feel 704 00:48:17,940 --> 00:48:20,190 like we get we get you a little bit. We don't we're gonna last 705 00:48:20,190 --> 00:48:24,570 too many gotcha questions. Just one. So what's one question you 706 00:48:24,570 --> 00:48:27,690 wished I'd asked you? And how would you have answered it? 707 00:48:29,250 --> 00:48:36,090 Jennifer Servedio: Oh, wow. One question. So I have this 708 00:48:36,090 --> 00:48:41,070 question that I always ask in job interviews of candidates. 709 00:48:41,640 --> 00:48:45,630 And it's sort of a geeky it question. I think, my spin on 710 00:48:45,630 --> 00:48:50,010 it, but I asked if you could be a superhero. Which one would you 711 00:48:50,010 --> 00:48:57,480 be and why? And honestly, I would want to be Wonder Woman 712 00:48:57,480 --> 00:49:02,160 because she's got the truth. lasso, right. So no one could 713 00:49:02,160 --> 00:49:07,830 lie to me. And she's got those those reflector cuffs and an 714 00:49:07,830 --> 00:49:11,460 invisible jet. How cool is that? I could get everywhere I wanted 715 00:49:11,460 --> 00:49:12,330 to super quick. 716 00:49:12,480 --> 00:49:16,440 Jason Baum: That's that's pretty cool. That's a good one. Yeah, I 717 00:49:16,440 --> 00:49:17,610 don't know who Mine would be. 718 00:49:18,120 --> 00:49:19,620 Jennifer Servedio: Do you want to hear the worst answer I ever 719 00:49:19,620 --> 00:49:19,950 got? 720 00:49:19,980 --> 00:49:21,210 Jason Baum: Yeah. What's the worst answer? Oh, 721 00:49:21,210 --> 00:49:23,790 Jennifer Servedio: I love this. Yes. The worst antari ever got 722 00:49:24,300 --> 00:49:30,690 Fred Flintstone? And I was like, a superhero. And you know what 723 00:49:30,690 --> 00:49:35,460 their answer was? If anyone can push that car with the whole 724 00:49:35,460 --> 00:49:38,430 family in it, including Dino. Yeah. 725 00:49:38,969 --> 00:49:46,019 Jason Baum: Oh my gosh, did they get to chop? No. That's that's 726 00:49:46,019 --> 00:49:50,609 great for Flintstone lamb. Were two people thinking. I was 727 00:49:50,609 --> 00:49:53,099 great. Thank you so much. I really appreciate your time. 728 00:49:53,099 --> 00:49:56,669 Jen. Thanks for coming on the show. Thank you, Jason. And 729 00:49:56,669 --> 00:49:59,489 thank you for listening to this episode of the humans of DevOps 730 00:49:59,489 --> 00:50:02,549 podcast. So, I'm going to end this episode the same way I 731 00:50:02,549 --> 00:50:05,729 always do, encouraging you to check out DevOps Institute to 732 00:50:05,729 --> 00:50:09,179 get access to even more great resources just like this one. 733 00:50:09,599 --> 00:50:12,599 Let's continue the conversation in the DevOps in the wild 734 00:50:12,599 --> 00:50:18,239 community. That's community dot DevOps institute.com. Until next 735 00:50:18,239 --> 00:50:22,379 time, stay safe, stay healthy, and most of all, stay human, 736 00:50:22,709 --> 00:50:23,789 live long and prosper. 737 00:50:26,850 --> 00:50:28,950 Narrator: Thanks for listening to this episode of the humans of 738 00:50:28,950 --> 00:50:32,520 DevOps podcast. Don't forget to join our global community to get 739 00:50:32,520 --> 00:50:35,850 access to even more great resources like this. Until next 740 00:50:35,850 --> 00:50:39,180 time, remember, you are part of something bigger than yourself. 741 00:50:39,600 --> 00:50:40,380 You belong