Randy Strobl: Welcome to Alumni Live: the Podcast.

These are conversations with Grand Valley State University Film & Video

graduates about the industry, the Film/Video major and alumni profiles.

Sarah Nawrocki: Hello everyone, and welcome to GVSU's Alumni Live.

I am so thrilled to be here.

My name is Sarah Nawrocki.

I'm of course and alumni of Grand Valley state University from the Film and Video

Production major, and today I'm going to be joined by some fellow alumni and we're

going to be talking about film festivals.

So to give you a little background on myself I dabble

in a lot of film festivals.

I have co-founded the Grand Rapids Feminist Film Festival.

I have been part of the Kent District Library Teen Film Fest.

I am a screener and judge for the Austin Film Fest, and I've also helped with, the

Open Projector Night, which was run by the Urban Institute of Contemporary Arts.

So, in addition as a filmmaker, I have submitted to a lot of film festivals.

So needless to say, I've got a little bit of experience in every aspect of film

festivals, but we have some other experts that are going to be, joining us today.

First I'd like to introduce John Otterbacher.

He is a full-time film faculty at Flashpoint Chicago, a campus

of Columbia College Hollywood, and award-winning experts that

are going to be joining us today.

Filmmaker in Chicago, John works closely with film festivals, both as

a filmmaker and as a board member, as well as a committee member or a juror,

including the Chicago International Film Festival, CineYouth Chicago

Underground Film Festival, and our very own Grand Rapids Film Fest.

How's it going, John?

John Otterbacher: It's going really well.

I'm excited to talk about film festivals.

It's a beautiful day.

Sarah Nawrocki: Yeah.

You got a whole lot of experience to bring to the table.

So we are looking forward to your input.

John Otterbacher: I stay busy.

Sarah Nawrocki: Good, good.

So another person joining our chat today is Jackson Ezinga.

He is a writer, director, producer, and actor who calls Grand Rapids his home.

His short film, License and Registration, was shown at the San Antonio Film

Festival, the Chicago Underground Film Festival, and various other festivals in

the U.S., Canada, and even Europe in 2019.

That's amazing.

For over four years, he was also a part of UIC's Open Projector Night.

What's up?

And he was part of the selection panel there, and he also continues to freelance

on various productions throughout Michigan and around the country.

You are a busy bee, Jackson.

Thank you so much for taking the time to come chat with us today.

How are you doing?

Jackson Ezinga: I'm doing well, Sarah.

It's good to be here.

Sarah Nawrocki: Good.

Well, we are so happy to have you.

Additionally, joining us, we have Deanna Morse who is an independent

filmmaker, specializing in animation and personal short films and videos.

Deanna's work has been screened internationally and are represented

in permanent collections, including the Metropolitan

Museum of Art in New York City.

She's a writer and an educator and has judged over three dozen international

film festivals and competitions.

She's served on numerous grant panels, she is a favorite former film professor

at Grand Valley, and most recently she was invited to join the Academy of

Motion Picture Arts and Sciences award selection committee for the Oscars.

It is an honor to have you here, deanna.

How are you doing today?

Deanna Morse: I'm doing great.

I love film festivals and I'm really glad to be here with this panel too.

So we should have a good discussion.

Looking forward to it.

Sarah Nawrocki: We've got a great mix and we actually have one other

person who couldn't join us live today, but he was so kind that he

could prerecord some answers for us.

And that is Joel Potrykus.

Not only is he a filmmaker and has dabbled in festivals, but he's

also a professor at Grand Valley.

So I'll let Joel go ahead and introduce himself.

Joel Potrykus: Hello, my name is Joel Potrykus.

I'm an independent filmmaker living in Grand Rapids, and I teach fiction

filmmaking and screenwriting here at Grand Valley State University.

So, I've made four feature films.

My first feature film premiered at the Locarno Film Festival in Switzerland,

which is like one of the biggest art house festivals in the world.

And my other three features have premiered at South by Southwest in Austin, which

is like the second most important festival in the country after Sundance.

And from there, I've traveled around to all the, the other smaller regional

festivals or, you know, country festivals in support of those, those films.

And that's by far the most important work I do as a filmmaker outside of

making the film is touring around with it through the festivals.

Sarah Nawrocki: All right.

Thank you, Joel, for that introduction.

So let's dive into the first question here, which I know we did a little

bit of your bios, but I'd love to hear a little more about each of

your experiences with film festivals.

John, could we have you kick it off?

Could you tell us more about your experience?

John Otterbacher: Sure.

That'd be great.

You know, I think as most filmmakers, most of my experience started with

film festivals, or going to film festivals and participating, and, to

any degree, I encourage all students and young filmmakers to, to just go to

film festivals and talk to people, but yeah, I was going to film festivals.

I started submitting work to film festivals, number of features, both

narrative fiction, documentary most recently, lots of shorts and at a certain

period of time, you're meeting people at film festivals and I, through my

connections with IFP Chicago, and just the film community here in Chicago, realized

that a lot of film festivals need help.

They're an important part of our community, and so when I was reached out

to see if I wanted to participate in film festivals, most of the time my answer was,

yes, how can I, how can I be involved in this really rich part of our industry?

And so I kind of, through a variety of different channels became involved in

film festivals, either as a jury member or, I did some screening early on.

I found that to be kind of exhausting.

I've helped in terms of being on a board or right now I'm on the educational

advisory committee for Cinema Chicago.

So that runs both the CineYouth film program, as well as the

Chicago International Film Program.

So I recommend that, or I um, give them recommendations and feedback

from a educational perspective as well as being a filmmaker.

So yeah, I've been involved in whole different sides of

the film festival industry.

Yeah, I love it.

I mean, I just think it's a really, really important part of our

industry, particularly if you're trying to make independent films.

I just think, you know, you've got to get out there.

You've got to show your work.

You've got to network, all the things we're going to be talking about today.

So yeah, I'm involved in as many ways as I can be.

Sarah Nawrocki: It's really fascinating once you get into film festivals to

realize how much goes into it and how many different positions there are.

I know when I was a student and looking into submitting to the first film

fest, I just assumed it's, well, I'm submitting, and then there's someone on

the other side who screens it and says you win, or you lose, and that's it.

But as John is explaining, there's a lot more, there's other departments,

there's so much that goes into it.

So it's great to know that there are different ways that you can

get into helping film festivals.

So thank you for sharing that.

John Otterbacher: lots of volunteer opportunities for students too.

Really lots, like film festivals need help.

If you're interested in learning more.

I think most of them are looking for help, so.

Sarah Nawrocki: No, that's a really great point.

I'm glad you said that.

And not just local film festivals.

As I mentioned, I do screenings for the Austin Film Fest.

A lot of them are set up for remote work too, so that's a good tip to keep in mind.

Deanna, could you share your experience with us of, uh, film festivals?

Deanna Morse: Yeah, well, you know, I'm, I'm kind of a film festival

nut, and I have to say it's what kept me sane during lockdown, because I

felt like I could connect with my peeps, with people that shared common

interests with me, which, in my case are experimental animation, but I really

do love all kinds of film or I at least engage with a lot of different films.

My first film festival was in college.

I got a couple films into a film festival at my university.

And since then I've regularly been to festivals for a couple decades.

I taught animation workshops at the Sinking Creek Film Celebration, which

later became the Nashville Film Festival.

I've been an attendee, I've been a staff, an organizer, I've been on

selection committees, I'm a judge, I'm on the advisory board, and right

after lockdown, I participated in the Ann Arbor Film Festival where I was

a Super Screener because I judged 370 films out of their 3000 or so entries.

And for the past several years, I've been on the selection committee for Ann Arbor,

which is more interested in experimental, innovative, cutting edge films and films

that also kind of reflect on media.

This year, I probably did six to eight film festivals.

I judged a festival in China last fall, which was really interesting

and sort of a cultural shock to get to see a lot of Chinese animation,

although it was also international.

I did Ann Arbor Arbor again, and then last summer as mentioned, I was invited

to join the Academy and, you know, I should say that that invitation came

out of my being at a film festival.

I was sitting around one night talking to a few people who were in the

Academy and they were talking about their opportunities and screenings.

I'm like, wow, that really sounds cool.

That sounds like fun.

And they said, well, have you ever been nominated?

And I'm like, no.

I thought you had to have an Oscar, you know, to be nominated for the Academy.

And they're like, no, it's your body of work and your history and

your involvement in festivals.

I think you're a good candidate, and this friend of mine, woman from Cal Arts, said

all nominate you and if you don't get in the first year, we'll just keep trying.

And fortunately on the first take I got in.

So that was a hit of happiness for me too during the pandemic.

So that's kind of my background and I'll talk about networking.

Some other things later when we get to those questions.

Sarah Nawrocki: Well, thank you for sharing that experience.

And I actually was going to ask you how you got involved with the

Oscars and being on that committee.

So that's good to know.

My assumption would have been that you have to, you know, like you said,

win an Oscar and all these other things, but just the fact that that

came from networking is incredible.

And that's a good thing to know for up and coming filmmakers.

Thank you.

Jackson, how about you?

Can you tell us about your experience with film festivals?

Jackson Ezinga: Yeah, sure.

I didn't really go to my first film festival until I got accepted into one

after college, which is kind of sad because like John mentioned, they're great

places to go to and network and watch movies and show your work on a big screen.

But yeah, my senior thesis got accepted into the East Lansing Film Festival,

and so that was my first experience and I thought this is awesome.

I need to keep doing this.

So I continued to submit my work to festivals, and I also got involved

with Open Projector Night, like you mentioned, screening hundreds of films

a year and putting together a show.

And then, I've also attended some of the bigger festivals.

Joel mentioned South by Southwest.

I went there with him and the crew 'cause I worked on those movies, and this year

during lockdown, I also was checking out the, kind of experimental virtual

film festivals, and that was a lot of fun to kind of get to know as well, so.

Sarah Nawrocki: That's so great, and I'm glad that you both,

Deanna and Jackson, have mentioned experimental film festivals.

Ann Arbor has a special place in my heart.

We've, I say "we" as in the Community Media Center and Grand Rapids Public

Library, and I have been bringing the touring Ann Arbor Film Fest to Grand

Rapids for the past couple of years.

So it's something that you wouldn't assume would be something

to submit to for a Film Fest.

You know, most people think it's probably like short films and

documentaries and that's it.

But, you know, people do hand painting on film and scratching film and wild

animations and all sorts of things.

So, as well as, I think we'll get to this a little bit later, film

festivals are not just limited to video.

Also, you can submit screenplays too.

So considering all the different opportunities for getting into

festivals, there are quite a few.

So our next question, we've kind of dabbled a little bit with the

answers, but it is, why are film festivals important to filmmakers?

And I'm going to throw it over to Joel to give us his insight first.

Joel Potrykus: Festivals are important for filmmakers because we're lucky

to have this kind of structure in place, which if you think of something

like a band, musician, there is no system in place to guarantee that if

something is good, it will make it.

I've seen a lot of them-- some of the best bands I've ever seen have no record

deal or no distribution because they don't have like a festival or a festival is set

up where the best films made that year will absolutely be seen by audiences,

journalists, agents, managers, producers, distributors, whatever it may be.

And the whole idea that festivals only look at films if they have a big star

or a big budget, or a known-- is made by a known director, that's-- no reputable

festival I've ever heard of would ever consider passing on a film that's good

just because it doesn't have the right people, the right backing behind it.

So, it doesn't matter who you are or where you live or how much resources

you have, you've told a great story, a good story through a unique

perspective, which is what festivals are looking for, you will succeed.

And so that's how I've found my career is through festivals.

Sarah Nawrocki: That's really great insight there.

Thank you, Joel, for that response.

Deanna, I want to throw this question to you first, particularly because

of your involvement with the Oscars.

Many people might think that, as Joel was kind of alluding to, that

it has to be big name directors and, you know, big stars that are part of

the films that get into it, but they actually have a shorts department

or category as well, three of them.

So tell us about how you find that even big award ceremonies, like the Oscars are

important for all sorts of filmmakers.

Deanna Morse: Yeah, well, the Oscars is still kind of new to me, but

I did judge the Student Academy Awards this year and they have a

narrative category, a documentary category and an animation category.

They also have a screenplay category.

It's called the Nicholl Screenplay Competition, and I judged that too.

I signed up to judge everything just 'cause, you know, it's lockdown

and I want to see cool new work.

But they also have a YouTube channel with some really informative little

videos that anyone can access.

You don't have to be part of the Academy to do that.

But there's so many festivals too.

So I, I looked it up last night.

Wikipedia said there are 3000 in the U.S.

but I went on Film Freeway and there were 10,654 festivals.

part of it is finding the festival that kind of is like your

interests and that fits your films.

And you know, why to go, you share your work, you see new work, you get

inspired, you meet new friends and you get to party with your peeps.

Sarah Nawrocki: So true.

I think that's half the fun is getting to see people that you don't

maybe see very often, especially if it's a festival out of town.

So great insight there.

John let's bring it to you.

Why do you feel like festivals are important for filmmakers?

John Otterbacher: I think I mentioned this earlier, but I think there's

this community aspect to it.

As filmmakers, sometimes we work with a smaller group of people that we,

we collaborate with, or we work in a certain city or town or states and are

kind of limited by those experiences.

Not in a bad way necessarily but still, it can be kind of a limited view and

perspective of what's happening out there.

And I think you've got to go and see films from all over the place.

And that's, that's one of the great opportunities of film festivals,

seeing all these, as Joel put it, you know, like unique perspectives

and viewpoints, from all over.

So that could be all over your state.

It could be regional, it could be national, it could be international.

I just think there's a lot of value in that.

I also think if you're interested in participating in film festivals, as in

submitting your film to film festivals, you've got to go see those films and

see what other people are making, you know, be part of that larger community

and that larger awareness of kind of what films are trending right now.

I will, I just want to throw out a little counterpoint to Joel.

I'm a little more jaded than Mr.

Potrykus about film festivals.

There is an inside line to a lot of film festivals and having

named talent is absolutely helpful when getting into film festivals.

But yeah, I mean, whether you have named talent or not, I mean, I went

to Sundance while I was in college.

I drove out there just to experience it.

Been to South by, and Tribeca.

I've been to all the big festivals, and even when I'm not participating

in the film festival as a filmmaker or a panelist, I still just,

I'm inspired when I go there.

And I come back with this new energy about filmmaking and that's wonderful.

We need we need motivation, enthusiasm as filmmakers to keep us going.

Sarah Nawrocki: I think those are really great points.

And to consider that film festivals are not just about submitting

programs and winning awards.

It's the exposure to other art and cultures and perspectives.

And like you said, we need inspiration.

So yeah, great reason to go to festivals, even if you're not submitting to it.

Jackson, what about you?

What are your thoughts on how festivals help filmmakers?

Jackson Ezinga: I mean, everyone touched on a lot of important things

about what makes festivals important.

And I think that for me, it's, it's definitely the community aspect

and I mean, festivals in the name, there's like a festival atmosphere and

energy when you're at these events.

And it makes you excited about watching movies about talking about

movies, about meeting filmmakers and people who just love movies.

It's just a great collection of people who are all there for the same thing.

And it's, it's hard to have a bad time at a, at a film festival.

So just at that at the very least it's a great time.

Sarah Nawrocki: Yeah, that's a great point.

So how about students submitting to film festivals?

Is there a benefit for them to enter as students or should

they wait till they graduate?

Deanna, I'll throw it to you first, because you mentioned experience with

students submitting to film fests.

Deanna Morse: Yeah.

And I was a student when I got my film in, my first film festival.

I definitely recommend that students enter film fests, but you need to be kind

of selective and you can go, you know, and study like which ones are open to

students or first filmmakers and think about if you can attend that festival.

I think sometimes people think that like Sundance is the only thing.

Oh, I'm making a film, I'm going to put it in Sundance.

But the chance of getting in Sundance is really slim, but there are other

festivals that your chance of getting in is good and that you could also

attend and then show your work there.

But definitely I think students should enter, and as was mentioned before,

should volunteer for festival work.

Sarah Nawrocki: Yeah, definitely volunteer, and not only, so you can kind

of see the caliber of films coming through and get inspiration as we mentioned, but

network with people and see what it takes.

Great tip there.

John, I'll bring it to you next.

What are your thoughts on students entering film festivals?

John Otterbacher: Yeah.

I 100% agree with Deanna.

I think submitting your work to film festivals while you're still

a student is really beneficial.

If nothing else, you start to learn about the process, you do your research, and

because, you know, the, the downside to there being so many festivals is that

there's so many festivals and it's kind of confusing, and the higher end festivals

tend to feed each other a little bit, but there's a lot of local and regional film

festivals that students can get into.

There's student only film festivals, you know.

I was a juror for the CineYouth Film Festival here in Chicago, which

is actually happening right now.

You can still watch movies for free online, but, uh, you know, that's

a student only film festival.

So why wait until you're a professional competing with professionals, when

if you think you've got good work, you can compete with other students.

You know, look for film festivals that are in your, grasp.

So to Deanna's point of like staying local, to film festivals,

you'd actually go to, or that have a similar subject matter to maybe

the subject matter of your film.

But yeah, absolutely.

We teach, you know, film festival submission and, research, et

cetera, and have assignments on that in our program here.

It's part of our curriculum because I think it's so important.

Sarah Nawrocki: That's really great that you guys include that in your curriculum.

I think that's, it truly is an essential part of the field.

So I'm glad to hear that you offer that.

Jackson, what are your thoughts about students entering film festivals?

Jackson Ezinga: I'm with John and Deanna, absolutely a hundred percent.

But I also want to echo kind of what they were talking about is being selective

about where you submit, because I don't know if this has been mentioned yet,

but submitting to film festivals can get really expensive, really fast.

And so choosing where you're going to submit and looking at how much it's

going to cost, I think is an important thing to do or else you're going

to end up going through potentially hundreds of dollars pretty easily.

So yeah, regional festivals are, are a great start, places that you can

go to, but that's, like I mentioned earlier, my first festival experience

was the East Lansing Film Festival.

They had a student category and I submitted and got in, got to go and

that kind of started and everything.

So, definitely do it.

Sarah Nawrocki: That's great to hear about your experience.

And as we've mentioned multiple times that there are film festivals

that are specific for students.

And one of the ones that I'm a judge for is local to Grand Rapids, which

is the Kent District Library Teen Film Festival, and that's a good place to get

started, but I know we've probably all experienced as screeners that students

will submit to film fests and I think my piece of advice in that realm would be,

you know, get experience filming outside of the projects that you're assigned

in class, grab your friends and go film stuff just for fun, and those tend to

be the better films that you can submit.

But by going to film festivals or volunteering at them, I think up

and coming filmmakers, we're kind of, we'll see what plays well and

what quality expectations are.

So that's really crucial to it.

So the next question is getting into more of the networking aspect of festivals.

And I know that Joel has some great insight to share with us about networking.

So let's take a listen to that

Joel Potrykus: Tips for networking.

First and foremost, you have to go to every single party.

A good festival will have a breakfast for the filmmakers, a lunch, a dinner, and

then one or two, maybe more, big parties.

You got to go to the parties, even if you're dead hungover from the party the

night before, you're tired, just not in the mood, whatever it is, you're there

to, again, as kind of gross as it sounds, to sell yourself and sell your film.

And that's when you meet people and it's never like go to a party with

a pocket full of business cards.

Just let that organically happen.

Just hang out with people.

People just want to hang out.

And if they like you, then they're going to start to ask about what

you're up to next, or start to ask about, you know, where can they

see your film and things like that.

But I never go with the-- the whole idea of networking sounds so kind of dirty

and businesslike and we're artists.

We're not business people with suit and ties.

So, don't approach these parties or networking events, whatever you want

to call them, as an opportunity to promote yourself or your film, just

look at it--- just a place to connect with people that are like-minded

or see the world in different way.

But you should never be, hi, my name is Joel, and you should come

see my film and here's this flyer and here's my business card.

I don't know.

It just comes organically.

Just, just be cool and it'll happen.

Most of the actors for my films are actors that I've met at festivals and it's just

because we, we hung out and had a good time, same with, even producers and other

crew positions I've met at festivals.

And it was never an exchange of business cards ever.

It was just an exchange of ideas.

Sarah Nawrocki: I love that.

Just, just be cool as Joel says, don't think of it about, or don't think of

it as a, you know, a business meeting.

It's just supposed to be fun and look at the opportunity that came up from Deanna

going to uh, one of the festival parties and the connections that she makes at...

a lot of great opportunities there.

Jackson, I'm going to throw it to you first, but I've got a little bit of a

curve ball with this question because I feel like you and I had a conversation

during the pandemic about attending these networking parties virtually, right?

So it's a little different right now that you can't be in person.

So what's that experience been like for you?

Jackson Ezinga: Yeah.

So during the pandemic, I attended a few different film festivals virtually,

and the ones that I remembered, and had, I guess, a better time at were

the ones that did have networking opportunities and virtual parties.

There was one festival called Nightstream.

You made a little 8-bit character and you could walk around like

8-bit world and interact with other festival goers, and when you get

close to somebody, their video would pop up and you could talk that way.

So that was kind of a cool, innovative way to keep that networking aspect of

film festivals alive during the pandemic.

But maybe when things do get back to normal, or somewhat normal, whatever

that's going to be, I would say, another way to, to network is to go to movies

that you want to see and that you think sound cool or sound great, and talk with

people afterwards, because they've just experienced the same movie that you did.

You were excited about it.

These people likely were too.

I think that's another good way to meet people who are like-minded

because you already saw the same movie.

Now you can talk about it.

Sarah Nawrocki: I think that's a really great point.

As Joel mentioned, that you don't have to think about it in the terms of a business

meeting and making those connections.

It's more about just having fun.

And even if you're not going to, you know, find the next actor for

your film or your crew members or something, just talking to people

about the film that you just watched.

I think that's a really great point.

Deanna, what insight do you have about tips for networking?

We'll go with, you know, in person, unless you have some virtual

experience you want to add as well.

Deanna Morse: No, I, I have a virtual experience too.

In the last, , couple of months, I've been to three festivals that had those

kinds of virtual lobbies with the little avatars that you walk around

and meet other people and, and all designed sort of differently, sometimes

with a table that only had two people.

And so you can have private conversations and sometimes a

wider thing where you explored and then you found people in there.

They're zoomed up.

And yeah, they are like parties where you get to talk to people and have fun, but

unlike, you know what Joel was saying, my experience at festivals is people

ask, do you have a film in the festival?

What is it?

And we're sharing links to our websites and to our films in the chat and for

physical festivals, I think it's really important to have something that you can

give people, not like Joel said, it's not like you go up and you just say, oh, hi,

I'm Deanna and here's my business card.

But after you talk to people for a while, you might want to exchange

cards or like at the end of the conversation or make postcards.

You know, this is real common, a postcard that shows your film on it that helps

people remember what film you saw, you know, what you had in the festival

and has your contact info on the back.

That kind of swap back and forth of business cards, and

postcards is very common.

And of course, you know, swapping DVDs that are-- actually I

have my Oscar box here too.

DVDs are not dead yet.

It's still a way that people share films or they share them on a zip drive too.

Another thing that, I mean, there are a ton of articles about how

to actually network, meet people, be successful at festivals.

One of the things we used to do when I took students to SIGGRAPH is we

agreed that we weren't going to hang in a pack with each other, but we

were going to split up during the day.

And that forced us when we got on the bus to meet new people.

And then at the end of the day, we come together and share who we'd met and

maybe be able to introduce someone, you know, in our group to this new group of

friends that we had connected with at the festival, but people do hats and t-shirts.

I was making bags for awhile so that I could carry around the festival program.

And then also, you know, if someone said, what about your film?

I point to this image on the bag.

But another way that you can network at festivals is festivals have bags

and they're usually brightly colored.

And you can see that somebody down the street is also wearing, you know, the,

the brand of the festival that you're at.

And it's easy to go up and just say, oh, hi, you're at GLAS, I'm at GLAS.

You know, where are you from?

Oh, I'm from Oregon.

I'm from so-and-so.

You have a film in competition?

I mean, that's common kind of festival chat.

Sarah Nawrocki: That's great advice.

And I love the idea of, you know, more creative ways to share the

information about movies that you've created, like the postcards

or the swag or anything like that.

So it doesn't just have to be a business card.

That's great.

John, what are your thoughts?

Any additional tips for networking at festivals that you'd like to share?

John Otterbacher: I think there's some really great advice from everybody before.

I like the idea of a bag with your, uh, the image from your film on it.

That's cool.

I think swag in general is cool.

So yeah, I don't necessarily know about business cards, but

I've done postcards before.

I don't know if that helps with networking, but the postcards definitely

helped with getting attendance to your film at a film festival.

Oftentimes it's very competitive, lots of different screening

venues and weird hours.

And so you're like trying to get a good audience into your, your film,

depending on the level of film festivals.

Some festivals everything's sold out.

Other times, you know, you've got to hustle a little bit.

Beyond the bags, I would say, look for the filmmaker badges, you know.

Oftentimes you go to film festivals and there's only a small percentage of the

people there are actually filmmakers.

So you look for the, the festival, like the filmmaker badges, and they're

generally like color-coded in some way that you can see that it's not just like

a passholder like they're a filmmaker, and, you know, that's a great way to

just like, oh, you're a filmmaker.

I'm, I've got a film too.

What are you guys seeing?

I tell my students and anybody interested really that it's about

having a, a common-- some sort of commonality and then the next step

would be like an authentic interest.

So before you go to a film festival, you know, study the program and see if

there's any filmmakers in particular that you would really do want to connect

with, you know, you've seen their work at other festivals, or it seems

to have a vision similar to yours.

You know, go to those movies, and then I think Jackson mentioned hanging

out after the movie and talking to people because filmmakers are

sometimes get exhausted with kind of silly questions from audiences.

They're not always silly, but sometimes they're a little repetitive.

Whereas meeting-- interacting with another filmmaker is kind of refreshing

after you've been talking to people who are maybe not filmmakers.

So, you know, looking for like an authentic interest in people's work.

If you go up to somebody or you ask them a question that's very specific

to their film or their career, it shows that you've actually spent some time,

you know, researching them, not stalking necessarily, but doing some research.

Generally people will respond really well to that authentic

interest or shared interest.

Or maybe you have a common friend that you met at another film festival.

Look for those angles to start conversation.

And then as Joel says, you want it to be like real.

You don't want to, to be too business-like.

It's not a accountants convention, it's a film festival.

And so, go to the parties and talk to people and try and enjoy yourself.

Find people that are like-minded.

Sarah Nawrocki: I love it.

Not an accountant's festival.

That's a different chat we'll have another day.

John Otterbacher: Conference.

Accountants don't have--

Sarah Nawrocki: Conference conference.

That's right.

Randy Strobl: This episode is brought to you by the Dirk Koning

Memorial Film and Video Scholarship.

Here's Gretchen Vinnedge remembering Dirk Koning.

For more information, and to donate to the scholarship, visit

the link in the description.

Now, back to the show

Sarah Nawrocki: So we've talked a lot about the networking and experiencing

festivals, but I think it'd be good if we can get into tips for

getting accepted into the festivals and having your content screened.

So first we're going to have Joel chime in here because he's got a

unique perspective on choosing a festival for premiering your film.

So let's take a listen to what he has to say.

Joel Potrykus: The most important part of your festival

strategy is your world premiere.

The world premiere dictates the entire life of the film.

I like to think of it like, like a pyramid.

And at the top of the pyramid, you have the top five festivals.

If you have a premiere, world premiere at one of these top five festivals,

then you're going to be able to trickle down the entire pyramid.

You can not-- can not go up the pyramid.

You can only go down.

At the top, we have Cannes, Berlin, Sundance, Venice, Toronto, A.K.A.

TIFF.

And so if you premiere at those, you can basically play every single

festival in the entire world after that.

But if you premiere at, the Cleveland Film Festival, which is a regional

festival, you can't then play Sundance.

There's kind of a, a hierarchy in there and every festival

wants your world premiere.

They want the exclusive, they're wanting to be the first ones to show it and

say, we discovered Quentin Tarantino.

So you have to do your homework and hold out for the biggest festival possible, but

also kind of be self-aware and know, can this film actually compete at Sundance or

is it better suited for Cinetopia Festival here in Michigan, which is a great

festival, but again, if you premiere, have a world premiere at Cinetopia, you're

not then going to be able to play Cannes.

Just doesn't work that way.

So just do your homework.

Play at the biggest, most important festival first.

Sarah Nawrocki: That's really great advice.

And actually that's something that I didn't learn until I got

involved with a film festival.

Between volunteering and getting on the, you know, the curation side of

things, I didn't realize that there was that stipulation that once you get

into a certain film fest, it might kind of block you from others or some say,

Hey, if you're going to be premiering at ours, you can't play somewhere else.

So I'm really glad that Joel brought up that point of doing your homework.

That being said, for any students that are watching, I wouldn't

get too worried about that.

Don't get caught up in it.

If it's your first time, just go have fun with it.

So John let's throw it to you.

What other tips do you have for getting your work accepted in a film festival?

John Otterbacher: Yeah, I mean, I would, I would second your comment, Sarah.

I just think I wouldn't overthink that.

If you have, if you're in Joel's situation, you have a feature, you

know, I think it's a different story, but if you have a short or especially a

student short, I wouldn't overthink it.

You know, I'll go back to what Deanna said earlier.

I think, I look at festivals and it's kind of like shopping in a way.

Not that I can buy an entrance into a film festival, but I'm kind

of shopping for festivals that I would like to participate in.

I've seen their work before, or I've seen some of the films that were there.

I have, it's a place I might actually go to.

You know, especially when you're a student or you're submitting short films, they're

not necessarily going to fly you out.

I've never been flown anywhere for a short.

For feature.

Yes.

Short, no.

So look for festivals that you would, like that's how you'd want to spend

your vacation is going to this film festival and participating in it.

Or you can drive there for a long weekend.

You know, maybe Cleveland is a great film festival for you because

it's four hours away and it seems like a fun place to go hang out.

Make sure that you do some research about the, you know, the quality,

I can't think of a better word, the production value, whatever, whatever

metric you want to use, that the films playing at the festival are, as Joel

mentioned, kind of not beyond your reach.

This idea, this dream that everybody has about Sundance or Tribeca or

South by Southwest or Cannes or Berlin or any of those others.

You know, make sure that your film is at that kind of level and use

any, absolutely anything you can that helps your film have an advantage.

So maybe that's being a student, maybe that's being a student from a

particular background, being a person of color, being a woman, having a

different sexual orientation, coming from a different part of the world.

Whatever it is, it's so competitive that any, absolutely any sort of, I

don't want to say angle, 'cause I think that's kind of gross, but if they're

looking for a film that you might have that perspective, absolutely,

you know, go in that direction,

Sarah Nawrocki: Yeah.

Great advice.

And I know we're going to get into searching for festivals in just a minute.

And I'll say in the, to the same note of what you're saying, John, about using your

background, whether you're a student or, you know, in my case, a woman applying

for a film festival, that also goes for grants for making your films too.

So I think that's a good thing to keep in mind.

So I'm really glad that you said that.

Jackson, what about you?

Any advice that you have to share about getting your work

accepted into a film festival?

Jackson Ezinga: I would go off on what John said.

Research is very important.

Seeing what films have played at the fest in the past.

So if there's one that like, oh, I really want to go here.

It'd be really cool to get in, take a look at their archive.

'Cause most festivals have that on their website.

Like if you have a short, you can look at what shorts played there in the past, and

a lot of those are even available online.

So you can kind of match your film.

I know it can be hard because, I don't know, my senior thesis, I thought it was

good enough for Sundance at the time.

I mean, looking back at it now I know it wasn't or isn't, but I think that

actually putting your film against films that have played in the fest that

you're kind of looking at is a good way.

Like, yeah, the quality of my film is pretty close or,

oh, it's way better than this.

I think, you know, that kind of thing.

But I would say, let's see, tips.

Yeah.

Filling out your submission form completely.

As a screener, it's kind of annoying when someone just submits the file

and their name and like the runtime.

It's like, we want to know a little bit more about it than just

what the film is and who you are.

Write a cover letter.

Doesn't have to be extravagant, but talk about why it's important

to you and what makes it special.

I think that that has sometimes for me been a deciding factor, like this

person really cares about this project.

Let the screeners know that.

Sarah Nawrocki: I think adding a cover letter is a really great idea, and one

bit of advice that I was going to share just as being a judge and a screener

is don't reach out to the screeners directly and bug them about getting in.

I mean, maybe for some advice of, Hey, do you think that this would do well?

Or should I take it back to editing?

But I think sharing your story and then also just make sure that you're

checking the boxes and filling out those applications completely.

I've been part of some festivals that, you know, if you forget one

little thing, like you don't include your phone number or something that

you can get rejected just because they get thousands of applications.

So some great insight there.

Deanna, what about you?

Any other thoughts on tips for getting accepted into film festivals?

Deanna Morse: Yeah, it's interesting.

You know, I've heard Joel say that before about the hierarchy of festivals, but

it's not my experience in animation festivals and in short film festivals.

And it's curious, because I was thinking about Ann Arbor.

When we did the intros, we announced that it was a world premiere or a

North American premiere, but then, the programmer, when we asked her

if that mattered, she said it didn't really matter at all, that that's not,

that wasn't a basis for selection.

And the other festivals I've been on selection committee, the premiere

thing is not at all important.

It's the quality of the film, but again, on tips and having said that,

you know, I've been on a couple of international selection committees

where, you know, you're looking at 3000 films over three weeks and they're all

so, there's so much randomness to it.

You just don't know.

Did the selection committee see a film right before my film that's kind of like

my film or, you know, did they just come back from lunch and they're like overly

full and kind of sluggish or do they need to go to lunch and they're hungry?

You know, there's all this stuff out of your control and it's hard

to really know why things get selected or don't get selected

when it's so amazingly competitive.

Like 3000 films and a hundred or 120 gets selected.

That's a huge number of really good films that were not included in the programming.

When I did a selection in Zagreb, I started keeping notes of things that were

kind of trends, you know, like, and wrote an article, like don't have your film

wake up with an alarm clock, you know.

Don't wait for things to peak until later, grab the audience right away.

I mean, there, there are a bunch of things that might help, you know,

you get selected, but you also kind of don't know, like at Zagreb, one

of the selectors, he was like, I am so sick of seeing butterflies.

If we see another butterfly I'm going to throw up and then, you

know, a film would come up, he'd go butterfly, butterfly, you know?

And, and how would you know as a filmmaker, that that one little

icon is something that all these other filmmakers are using too?

So it's kind of a crap shoot, you know, whether you get in or you

don't get in, but you know you're not going to get in if you don't try.

Sarah Nawrocki: Some great insight there.

I love that you wrote that article talking about different trends that you've

kind of seen over and over and over.

I know that reminded me of a friend of mine who's a producer for a

pretty big production company talking about all the pitches that she was

getting for, uh, pandemic-related stories as of even April, 2020.

And some of it is kind of like, read the room.

You know that that's going to be a hot trend, so get a little more creative.

But I think the big takeaway is going to festivals and even just keeping up on

new content being released and see what trends are, or if you have a different

angle for it, or, you know, probably more importantly, just speak your own

authentic voice and share your own story that's going to be the best one.

But it is kind of a crap shoot.

You don't know if you're going to get in, not guaranteed.

There are always a lot of really amazing films that don't make it into the top,

and that doesn't mean they're bad.

It just means there are a lot of really good ones and it's hard

to pick, so great point there.

We actually have a question from the audience that I want to bring up here.

And Suzanne has asked what is the best way for students to begin researching

to find which festivals to enter?

That's a great question because I could see it being a little overwhelming,

especially for your first time.

So John, can we toss it to you first?

Do you have any recommendations?

John Otterbacher: Yeah, absolutely.

I mean, the, the no-brainer, you know, start is FilmFreeway.

So it was Withoutabox, and Withoutabox is either gone or it's on its way away.

FilmFreeway is really the dominant, you know, tool in the festival industry.

And so you go there and you can start researching festivals.

There's a lot of information on the site itself.

You can save favorites and then you go to the festival's

website, to Jackson's point.

Look at the films that were there beforehand.

And then I think one thing that's really important is hopefully you're starting

to build a network of filmmakers.

So if you're a student, maybe that means your classmates, your professors, maybe

some alumni, if you're connected to any of them and talk to them about what they

think would be good film festivals, right?

Learn from the people that did it before you, already have some experience.

They're going to give you really good advice hopefully.

You know, you want to have good, good people in your network, educated

people in your network, but also you never know, somebody who you speak to

may have a line on a film festival.

And this is the dirty secret of film festivals is that, I don't want to say

there's a back channel, but if you've already played in a film festival,

you know the programmers, you know the people there and you can say, Hey,

please check out my friend's film.

It's really good.

Or if you've worked at a film festival or you've programmed or been a jury

for a film festival, you probably know somebody there and it's always good

to help get somebody on the radar.

It doesn't mean that they're gonna instantly jump to the front of the line.

Selecting films that you know people that have been to those film festivals, they've

verified them, and doing your homework.

I will also just say, like, there's a lot of really bad film festivals.

If you're going to have 10,000 film festivals, there's going to be a lot

of really bad ones that may not be worth your time submitting to, even

if you got into them, you get some laurels that you put on your website,

but it's not even something that you can attend when there wasn't COVID.

They're all online, they have you pay a fee for each category that

you're trying to win an award in.

So, you know, do your research and just talk to other people.

'Cause you never know how that might help your film find a home.

Sarah Nawrocki: Great advice there about doing your research.

Another note too being, not only are there a lot of film festivals and

some of which unfortunately are not that great or do charge you for things

that kind of seem a little ridiculous, but there are a lot of niche film

fests too, for very specific genres.

Not only as we talked about experimental film festival or documentaries or

whatever, but some themes as well.

So keep an eye out for that too.

Jackson, what are your thoughts with submitting to film festivals, tips for

students or just in general for searching?

Jackson Ezinga: One resource that I found helpful and helped me get into a festival

that I never would have heard of otherwise probably, MovieMaker Magazine puts out

quarterly lists of either like the coolest festivals to go to for 2021, or the best

horror film festivals of 2021, or the best festivals worth your submission fee.

They, they're constantly putting out lists of festivals that they know and have been

to and know that it's worth either going to, or checking out the movies there,

or that if you were to submit to it and get into it, it's definitely worth it.

The hat I'm wearing right now, I got from the Mammoth Lakes Film Festival

in California, where it said, I read that article and it was like, this

festival's cool because they fly you out, even if it's a short film.

They put you up in a hotel, you get to see all this beautiful scenery.

And I was like, oh, that sounds cool.

I'll try to submit to that, just kind of randomly.

And then I got in and they flew me out to California for the

world premiere of my short film, which I was not expecting at all.

But was it worth the entry fee?

Absolutely.

So that's one resource.

John also made a lot of good points that I totally agree with, so.

John Otterbacher: Those lists are actually on FilmFreeway now.

They put the Movie Magic filmmaker lists literally on FilmFreeway.

You can select, and it limits those by, you know, what the larger world

has, has said is a good film festival.

That's great.

Jackson Ezinga: Yeah.

Sarah Nawrocki: That's awesome.

Nice and convenient.

I love that.

Alright, Deanna, what other thoughts do you have for searching

for film festivals, submitting, whether or not you're a student?

Deanna Morse: Yeah, and I have also been flown out to a film festival

more than once to show my short film.

So one of the things I look at when I consider festivals is

what kind of perks do they have?

There are definitely some kind of sleazy, slimy festivals, where they'll

try to sell you the trophy that you won, or you have to pay a ticket,

you know, to see your own film.

That shouldn't be.

So one of the things in ASIFA, the international animation group that

I'm part of, I'm a VP right now, one of the things we do is try to go for

filmmakers' rights and make sure that filmmakers are respected by the festivals

and Ann Arbor this year actually did this slogan of "pay artists".

They paid everybody back a per minute amount for having their films in the

festivals, which festivals used to do too.

FilmFreeway's great though.

Like the niche festivals, that's great.

Student festivals, that's great.

And also there's, you can see what the fee is.

And there are a lot of no entry fee film festivals, especially internationally

that you can put your film in.

So yeah, I would just underscore what everyone else said too.

It's mostly a process.

It's research, it's work, and you got to do it.

Sarah Nawrocki: That's a great point about the search features with

FilmFreeway of how you can narrow things down, whether it's something

like no entry fee or anything else.

I think that's, that's really good to note.

Another kind of insider tip that I learned again from being part of a film festival

is a lot of film festivals do have ways that you could have the fee waived.

That could be if you're a student or, you know, different qualifications.

Some of them, not all, you can message them and ask for a promo code to

be able to get through and have a reduced or completely eliminated fee.

So I would make sure to read the fine print for submissions.

'Cause I know with the feminist film festival that I ran here in town,

that's where we put it, was at the bottom and it's kind of like the little

secret that teachers might put in the syllabus of a, Hey, if you got to

this point, here's a bonus for you.

Check it out and see and do your homework, and there might be

some gem hidden in there for you.

Alright, I know we just have a, gee, less than five minutes left, so we

are going to kind of jump to the end here of some takeaways from, you know,

submitting to film fests, attending film fests, any experience that you

had and how that's helped you grow as a filmmaker and storyteller or educator.

What are the takeaways?

Deanna, I'm gonna throw this one to you first.

Deanna Morse: Well, I don't know.

I mean, it's just a big part of my life.

I love watching good work.

And I did bring this box.

I wanted to show it.

This is the Academy DVD screeners this year.

They don't all fit in the box, but you know, at one point there

was like 600 some films that I could see in all the categories.

And it was just a wonderful gift to be able to look at,

you know, this amount of work.

And I feel that way about being on screening committees too.

I will say, 'cause it kind of sounds from what other people are saying that

a lot of times it's one person who makes a decision, but the festivals

I've been involved with have layers of screeners and levels of screening

where you, you know, you get through one and then you cut down, another you're

cut down, another you're cut down.

And so it's not just one layer of decision-making.

It's usually lots of layers it seems like these days.

So yeah, I mean, it's just, it's enriched my work totally, and again, entering

festivals, you get in a festival.

I was in a festival in Ashland last week, and then I got an invitation to

get into, to enter another festival because of being in the previous festival.

And they gave me a waiver too so, lots of opportunity there.

I just encourage people to join this party.

Sarah Nawrocki: Definitely great advice there.

Join the party.

I love that.

Jackson, I'll throw it to you next.

Any insight on what you've learned or how you've kind of evolved as a filmmaker

with being involved with film festivals?

Jackson Ezinga: I think just being involved with film festivals has

kind of reinforced what I already knew is that filmmaking is a

collaborative and community effort.

And I think every time I go to a festival, I'm kind of reminded of that.

And you get to see it, not just from the production side, but from what

we're all making movies for is for the audience and people experiencing it.

And I think that from the, from being involved on the selection side, it

also gave me an opportunity to watch literally hundreds, possibly thousands

of short films from the time that I started on Open Projector Night.

And, it helped me focus on, for my own work, things that would bother me

as a selection panel member or things that would excite me or inspire me.

You just get to watch so many films that you learn a lot about the

way other people make films and about how you make films as well.

Sarah Nawrocki: Thanks for that insight.

Last but not least.

John, tell us what you've learned or how you've evolved as a filmmaker.

John Otterbacher: Well, I just think film festivals have, you know,

enriched my life and my experience as a filmmaker, you know, the, the

goal is to show your work to people.

The reality is that we're not all making, you know, big budget

films, you know, that are gonna have a huge audience on television

or in mainstream movie theaters.

So film festivals are often our first audience for our projects.

Sometimes it's, they're really our only audience for a project besides,

you know, going online with them.

That should be celebrated, you know, enjoy, enjoy that.

Don't, don't skip that step, making a movie and not, not showing your movie to

the world and finding the right audience for it is really, would be a loss.

And it's just, it's a part of the step.

It's a part of the process of being a filmmaker.

You have to show your work, I think, to continue to grow and evolve, so.

Sarah Nawrocki: Great insight all around.

Well, I know we're out of time and I just want to thank you all

again, John Jackson, Deanna, and even Joel who wasn't here live.

Thank you all for taking the time to chat with us and share

your insight with viewers.

And hopefully we get to do another chat like this.

Everyone watching, make sure to keep an eye out on the Facebook page for the

Alumni Live, the next event coming up.

I know we have some fun stuff planned this summer, so until then take care, everyone.

Thank you so much for joining us.

Randy Strobl: Thank you for joining us for this episode of Alumni Live: the Podcast.

Subscribe to our podcast to hear more from our alumni across the industry.

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Thank you for listening.