Randy Strobl: Welcome to Alumni Live: the Podcast.

These are conversations with Grand Valley State University Film and Video

graduates about the industry, the Film/Video major and alumni profiles.

Kelly Loughlin: Good afternoon, everyone.

My name is Kelly Loughlin.

I am coming to you live from Los Angeles.

I am a 2016 GVSU Film & Video grad and we are hosting one of our

Alumni Live today about getting your first PA job in the film industry.

I am also joined with a few other Grand Valley alumni today.

We have Chris Randall coming to you live from Grand Rapids, and we also

have Tre Jackson here in Atlanta.

How you doing?

Tre Jackson: Doing great.

Kelly Loughlin: Awesome.

And we are also going to be hearing some responses from Jesse Routhier.

He is stationed in New York City.

He could not join us today, but he is very eager to share some

of his fellow experiences working as a production assistant in the

film and television industry.

It is so nice to be able to hear from our alumni all across the country, really.

We've got Grand Rapids, we've got LA, we've got in Atlanta,

we've got New York City.

This is amazing.

We've got all kinds of smorgasborg of film/video options, TV

that we have to hear about.

So I am so excited to be able to share this with everybody today.

Chris Randall: Yeah.

Kelly Loughlin: Yeah.

Super exciting.

So production assistance, it's kind of the first rung on the ladder, right?

That's kind of where you're going to be getting your start

if you want to be working either on a film set or in television.

And I mean, depending on what kind of city you're in, it seems like

there's different kinds of things that they could be having you do.

So I think we should just kick it off and say, what's the average

day as a PA look like you guys, like, what is your experiences?

Tre, down at Atlanta, what do, what do they have you doing down there for work?

Tre Jackson: The Atlanta industry, it's booming.

It's been booming.

It's always, seems like it's expanding.

It's very active.

So, there's a lot of opportunities.

I mean, the typical things of a PA are transportation is big, handling

people's orders is big, really just managing any department that needs

help, like bridging the gaps, being the glue, like doing whatever's needed,

you know, so it's kinda cool 'cause you get the experience of seeing

everything from different perspectives.

One day you might be in this department helping this department, watching

equipment, unloading equipment, learning about that kind of stuff, being

closer to the producers and directors.

So, it's quite an adventure.

Yeah, those are some of the responsibilities that

we, uh, do down here.

Kelly Loughlin: That's awesome.

And Chris, you are actually working at Grand Valley, is that correct?

Chris Randall: Yes.

I'm currently teaching a class, a script writing class at Grand Valley.

I graduated in 2000, moved to LA for a year and then came back here and I've

run a production company here ever since.

Kelly Loughlin: Awesome.

So it's been a while since you were last down in the production

assistant level, I should say.

What are some of the experiences that you remember having when you were

first starting off in your year in LA?

Chris Randall: It was, like Tre said, um, you did get to experience all the

positions, which I think is the great thing about starting at PA because, a

lot of times, people might think that there's a certain job that they want to

do, and then they get to see everything and they might think, oh, you know what?

I'm actually more interested in this because you got to help out in a different

department than what you were thinking.

It is anything, you know, that's what I learned was just to be ready to do

anything anyone asks you to do with a smile on your face and do it right away.

That was pretty much it.

Kelly Loughlin: That's always a good way to be.

I am actually an office production assistant, which is a

little different from a set PA.

I remember at my time at Grand Valley, a lot of the skills that we learned

were as for actually being an onset PA and what it seems like to be onset.

However, as an office production assistant, I get to work a little

bit more in the development side.

Some of my job duties include sitting at the desk all day, to be honest.

For my current job, I have actually not had to be out on set, but I handle a

lot of the production coordinating, I schedule meetings for development team.

And so I really like being the part of watching the process of a

television show being developed.

And when you're going onto set, you know, you're already ready to see these things

kicked off and helping with the creating of it, but I really love the office PA

aspect and that's actually something I didn't learn a ton about at Grand Valley.

So even when it comes to just that starting position of PAs, they can

have you doing any number of things in-set, in-office, or maybe you're just

out doing runs somewhere and trying to drive around in the Atlanta traffic

trying to get a truck somewhere, right?

That's awesome.

I want to share a little bit about some of the responses that Jesse Routhier has

from his time working in New York City.

He actually has worked on the show Marvelous Mrs.

Maisel, which is an amazing thing.

That is so exciting.

He mentioned that he actually did a little bit of union work and a lot of his common

duties were managing crowds and such, which I can imagine being in New York

City trying to be a PA, that'd be a little different than in Grand Rapids, trying

to, you know, different amount of people walking on the street that you gotta

keep from walking on the set and stuff.

So it seems like a lot of his was just assisting, keeping the streamline

of the production going when some of our other experiences don't

necessarily work up in that same way.

So yeah, so even just in your starting position of being a PA, they could

have you in any number of different positions and because you're having

different hats as a PA, it seems like you could be reporting to

different people even depending on what they have you doing that day.

So we actually have a question from Dan who wants to know to who would a PA answer

to when you're hired onto a project?

Chris, do you have response to that?

Chris Randall: In my experience it's usually the assistant director is the one

that kind of gives the responsibilities out and that might flow down the line.

It might be them telling you to go work with another department, but it seems like

at least in my experience and when I was in Los Angeles, the assistant director

was the one who was on the walkie that I was getting direct information from

and directions from of what to go do.

Kelly Loughlin: Now Tre, do you always find yourself responding to the same

kind of person when you're working on a project or does it ever switch up?

Tre Jackson: Typically it's the production coordinator from my experience.

I did a lot of reality TV show, more than anything, reality TV show PA work.

So, the nature of that is different because it's a small intimate crew

and, there's like two of us PA's that run everything it's very, so

that's what it's been like for me.

Kelly Loughlin: Can we know any of those reality TV show names, or?

Tre Jackson: Yeah, totally.

Totally.

Man.

So I was, I was, uh, PA'ing on Braxton Family Values, which is a, you know,

Toni Braxton's based out here in Atlanta.

I know her and her assistant really well.

There's all the sisters are involved on that.

Uh, yeah, so like two years with that.

We tra-- like we would travel, which was cool.

Once, 'cause we were the two PA's that were like, we were like associated

with that show, so whenever they came in town from LA, they shot in LA, shot

in Atlanta and they were sometimes in Washington, DC, so we would drive

the equipment and the crew would fly and it was like a big family.

It was really cool.

We went to Little Rock, Arkansas, one time and me and the guys just

bonded so that, that we really have a good relationship with that crew.

I worked on American Idol for one day as a PA.

Kelly Loughlin: One day.

Tre Jackson: One day.

There was a couple one-dayers.

Project Runway for one day, some food show for one day.

Those are some of the reality show.

Um, and then there's Home Free, a couple of the bigger, reality TV shows.

So that's more of a game show, but yeah, I spent a lot of time

on a Braxton Family Values.

Kelly Loughlin: So it seems like you kind of have a toss up between projects

that lasts just one day and some things that you're repeatedly brought on

for weeks at a time, it sounds like.

Tre Jackson: Yeah.

Yeah.

That's and that's the nature of being a PA and, you know, the cool thing is if

you're, if you're good people like you.

If you do a good job, like you said, one of you guys spoke to

attitude earlier, then, I mean, why wouldn't they work with you again?

And on that same token, when you are consistently working with someone,

they always want to ask, you know, what is it that you want to do?

Eventually that question is going to come up.

Just be aware, pay attention so you know what to say.

I wanted to share a really quick, one of my first PA gigs was really

cool because we went to North Georgia Mountains and we're at T-Pain's

house like hanging out with his whole family and it was just so cool.

It was just so cool, man.

So it can take you some really cool places.

I've been to T.I.'s house.

That was Ludicrous, that was Ludicrous' house, nevermind, So.

Kelly Loughlin: Wow.

Tre Jackson: Yeah,

Kelly Loughlin: That sounds worth it on its own.

Wow.

Chris when you were in LA, does it seem like it was kind of a toss up as well

between whether you'd be on a project for one day versus an ongoing thing?

Chris Randall: Oh yeah.

And I was doing PA and I was also getting grip work.

So if it was a union shoot, it would be a PA position 'cause I wasn't in the union.

If it was grip work, it would be non-union shoots, but it would be

whether I was gripping or PA, I could get a job for a day here and there.

The biggest thing that I worked on in Los Angeles, it was three weeks of PA work.

It was the Tim Burton Planet of the Apes so, and that one was three weeks

at Sony Pictures Studios, so it was, that was the longest single job that

I had as a production assistant.

Kelly Loughlin: That is so cool.

Wow.

You guys have been working with some big names already.

It just says your PA levels.

That is so exciting to hear.

Chris, so nowadays, um, you have been in charge of hiring PAs

over in Grand Rapids and stuff.

What are some of the duties that you have them doing that you

send them out in the world to do?

Chris Randall: So our shoots are much smaller than a big production like Tim

Burton's Planet of the Apes, you don't...

Usually we have a crew of maybe six to seven people.

We do a lot of documentary style things as well or web series.

So our PA's really are a big part of the crew.

You know, if you have six people on the set and every person is very important, so

the PA is often actually doing everything from assistant cameras type stuff, like

doing the slate for us or that kind of thing, all the way to taking everybody's

orders and going and getting lunch, you know, and then everything in between,

whatever we need to do on the set.

And it's usually one PA on our set with us.

We definitely look for that person with that really good attitude and that

personality that we can get along with.

Somebody who is excited to do that every day with us.

Kelly Loughlin: Oh, that's so good to hear, for sure.

In my position, when I was hired for this, I actually have a hyphen in my position.

I am an office production assistant and an executive assistant.

So because of that, I am the personal assistance to the executive of our

company, who is the CEO, who runs the reality television company that I work at.

So I am, you know, I'm getting him lunch every day, I walk his doggie, who I have

to bring into the office sometimes, but then between that, I am also doing a lot

of scheduling, um, and answering phones.

So there are a lot of similar receptionist duties, which I did work some non-film

jobs as a receptionist and administrative assistant between moving out here to LA.

So a lot of those skills came in handy and here, I thought that those

would always kind of be separate from film, but I never really thought about

being an office PA over a set PA.

So even though I do answer to my boss, I also work with our production coordination

team and our line producer very much.

They will hand off to me to make phone calls and reserve hotels or

a big thing for me I've been doing lately is finding COVID testing for

our crew before they go on flights.

So it's a lot of the PA duties like you guys are mentioning, it's kind

of handling some other things that maybe someone higher up in the ladder

doesn't have time to get to, but still those small duties are so critical

to the production moving forward, and they're often just in our hands alone.

So because of that, it sounds like we really need to be in our A game when

it comes to being a PA and just be ready to go when we show up on set.

And a big part of that is making sure that we have the right tools and the

right clothing and kits and vehicles, and just be ready to be assistant

more than just being a smiling face.

Tre, when you're down in Atlanta, do you have like a kit of stuff that you

bring with you every job, or what do you find you have to have the kind of

right tools when you're on set every day?

What, what helps you do your job?

Tre Jackson: As a PA from my experience it's, it's fairly minimal,

for requirement wise, you know.

A charged phone, a way to make sure your phone can be charged is really

like the primary thing that you need.

It's a prerequisite to have a valid driver's license, but outside of that,

anything else is kind of additional.

I've seen one of my guys bring, a notepad.

You know, little scissors, or stuff like that.

Gloves or different things.

But as far as PA'ing from my experience I don't usually bring any extra materials,

unless it's otherwise communicated.

Kelly Loughlin: That's interesting.

Chris, have you ever found yourself needing something on set that you

didn't bring with you that day?

Or what have you found comes in handy to have with you when your PA'ing?

Chris Randall: Well one of the things that I learned really early in Los

Angeles for the year I was there, cause I always thought it was just beautiful

and sunny every day, and then we got into a production and all of a sudden it was

pouring rain and I didn't have rain gear.

And then on another production, we were out in the desert all night and it was

freezing cold and I wasn't prepared.

So being prepared for any type of weather, I think is definitely crucial.

Especially if you know you're going to be shooting outside and then as a

PA, even if the production is inside, you still might be outside, you know,

locking a street down or directing traffic or something along those lines.

And then the other thing that I took from gripping, I guess, too, but I just

always carried it over to PA was just having one of those little, uh, pocket

things that has a Leatherman and a Sharpie and a little flashlight on it.

Like those three things can come in handy so often for so many

things, you'd be surprised where you can use those three items.

Kelly Loughlin: Yeah.

Wow.

I can only imagine, especially if someone's just like, oh, I need a

pen and then, oh, I'm the PA, hi, my name is such and such and then

you can make a great in that way.

Chris Randall: Or having a stick a gum on you too as often as I can.

Kelly Loughlin: Is that something that you asked from your PAs

or what's something that you--

Chris Randall: No I wouldn't ask for it, but...

Yeah, I have people ask--

Tre Jackson: Bonus points.

Chris Randall: I actually, when I'm shooting, if I'm directing something

and I can't get somewhere and I know I'm going to be interviewing

someone that's coming in and we've just had lunch, I will ask for gum.

It's one of those things that I just tried to have around when I was PA'ing

so when somebody asks for something, if I could just have it right with me, it'd

just be one of those little things that would make them happier with me, I guess.

Kelly Loughlin: Have you ever asked for something specific that you have

your PAs come prepped with that day?

Like maybe making, have you ever asked them to make sure that they have all

those things or do people generally kind of know to bring a pencil or a

flashlight or something with them?

Chris Randall: I think the only thing we make sure is that they're going to

be dressed properly for the weather that they're going to be dealing with.

Like those other things, like Tre said, it's not requirements, it's just

things that I've found handy myself.

But we definitely make sure that they know and understand the weather

situation, especially in Michigan.

You know, letting them know if it's going to be getting cold and rainy,

just because we're inside, don't expect that you're going to be inside all day.

So those kinds of things.

Kelly Loughlin: That's a great point.

And Tre, earlier, you were talking about your job had you driving a little bit

to different locations, sounds like.

I just want to talk briefly about requirements of driving as a PA.

Have you found yourself using your personal vehicle a lot?

Have you driven work vehicles or what's kind of the different experiences

you've had when it comes to driving for the PA gig that . You've had?

Tre Jackson: I would say it varies on the project and the budget of the project.

I've done a couple recent independent feature films, and

mainly just, gripping or camera.

And, because it's so small, I would drive to pick up something here and there,

but you know, on the reality shows, they always come, I mean, they come in town

from LA, so they always have rental cars.

It can happen, but usually it's on a smaller project or show, the more

intimate one lower budget is when I drive.

I did have one PA gig.

We solely delivered a U-Haul, a big U-Haul from Atlanta to

Chicago, I think, was it overnight?

It was just like straight.

I've done that a couple of times.

I've went from like Atlanta to, we dropped off something in like, was it New Orleans?

No, it was further than that, it was like Baton Rouge and then drove

back, just as an equipment PA, like a deliverer PA, you know, so

it was just a road trip adventure.

Yeah I've done that.

Kelly Loughlin: Did they ask you ahead of time if you had experience

driving a truck like that, or did they just hand you the keys and say,

Hey, be in so-and-so at such time?

Tre Jackson: I think she did ask something like that, but the funny thing is, I

did the Chicago one twice, and the first time the guy I brought destroyed the

U-Haul, ripped a big hole in it when he was turn-- he did some fast, weird turn.

We got to Chicago and they didn't call him back, but, uh, they called me back.

But yeah, that, that happened.

Kelly Loughlin: And Chris, over in Grand Rapids, do you ever have PAs

drive a box truck or load up equipment?

Or is this something that you, you feel comfortable designating

PA to do, or what's some of your experience with PAs and vehicles?

Chris Randall: We don't typically ask a PA to do that.

In Grand Rapids, and I'm sure a lot of people at Grand Valley know, Lowing

Light & Grip and we work with Dave Lowing and that crew all the time.

So if there's truck moving that needs to be done, we typically will

ask them to carry something for us.

We do appreciate when a PA has like a hatchback vehicle or an SUV that

can carry things in a cargo space.

But that's also nothing that we require about.

When, when a PA says, oh, I can, you know, I can throw all the crafty in

my, in the back of my car and take it to the next location, that's great.

You know, we love to hear that.

Kelly Loughlin: Yeah, that, that echoes an experience that, um, Jesse in New

York City wrote about is, having a good vehicle, even in New York City

is important to have for him as a PA.

Hatchback is something I keep hearing about as well.

My roommate who works as a set dresser, she has a hatchback car

and she specifically chose that vehicle because she knew she'd

be having to do a lot of loading.

I bought a new car for myself before I moved to LA and, uh, that wasn't

something I took into consideration, but I also knew that, in my job I wouldn't

be doing a lot of moving larger objects like maybe someone in a grip PA position

or moving a cargo van would be doing.

I personally have had a little bit of driving to do in rental vehicles

and we call them box trucks.

It's the smaller kind of vans, but they're not like a huge kind of semi-truck like

Tre, you mentioned kind of driving a bit.

I would mostly be doing runs to like LAX and picking up gear

and crew members and stuff like that, taking them in the airport.

So I have had to use my personal vehicle and some company vehicles

for something, but in my office paid position, it didn't come up a ton.

But I, I'm glad that they asked you back after that truck incident,

Tre, I'm sorry for your coworker, but that they brought you back.

Tre Jackson: I am a great driver.

They always make sure you're comfortable before they have you drive.

Kelly Loughlin: For sure.

So I'm curious to ask, so it sounds like you've had a lot of, um,

repeat aspects for your position.

How did you land that first job that obviously led to you getting the

same one over and over when they would come back for more filming?

How did you find your first positions there in LA or in Atlanta?

Tre Jackson: For the Braxton Family Values, I can't remember how I,

someone knew my name from another place, position, show I believe,

but one of my first PA gigs, the official ones, was from StaffMeUp.com.

I was just navigating, trying to figure my way, trying to

figure the site out and stuff.

And so, yeah, that was in 2015.

And it was really exciting 'cause I was figuring out how to navigate the

platform, how to get seen or what to use.

And so, yeah, Staff Me Up, it worked out and that was just such

a, that was such a great gig.

It just reminded me of one of my PA gigs, it was the most I got, I think it

was 300 a day for commercials PA's...

Kelly Loughlin: Commercial.

Tre Jackson: Pay--

Kelly Loughlin: Yep.

Tre Jackson: Pay more.

Yeah.

And that, that crew was, I mean the scenery, the crew,

everything was so beautiful about that shoot and comfortable.

The coordinator was just so kind and just such a great environment.

Even at the end of the, towards the end of the shoot, he was like, Do

you want to be in the commercial?

We need like a partner.

This woman was like, we're supposed to hold hands and like,

you want to be her partner.

It's an extra 200.

I was like, I was like, yeah I'll be your partner, so we held hands and I was

her husband for a couple of minutes, so.

Kelly Loughlin: Wow.

Tre Jackson: Yeah, so I made 500 that day on my gig, so surprises can happen.

Kelly Loughlin: Yeah.

And that was, that was through Staff Me Up you said?

Did you--

Tre Jackson: That, that one, I don't think was through Staff Me Up, but my

first, my first one I got, when we drove to the North Ridge Mountains, T-Pain's

house and all that kind of stuff.

Kelly Loughlin: Awesome.

Yeah, so Staff Me Up is definitely one I've personally used as well.

Chris, when you, when you came out here for Tim Burton's Planet of the

Apes, was website hiring a thing yet?

It was word of mouth?

Tell me about your experience from then.

Chris Randall: There was, I mean, the getting our name out through different

web services, I can't even remember what they were, we didn't use it at all almost.

I mean, we were just starting to kind of discover that.

So this was way back in 2000, you know, 1999, 2000.

So the way that, when I moved to Los Angeles, I started to get my name out

there was, I started, I don't remember how I found productions that were

looking for, just looking for free help, and that's what I just started

doing the first month or two I spent working for no money to meet people

and get my name out with people.

So then, when they would work on a production that was paid, that's

how I started to get those jobs.

They started to call me up and a lot of times they would call me up the night

before they needed me the next day.

And I just kind of had to be ready to go.

I would do that.

And that's how I started getting those jobs.

And that's kind of even how the Planet of the Apes one came along.

They just, when they were moving to the Sony lot, they just decided they need--

needed one more PA while they were there.

And one of my friends was working on it already, and so he called

me, can you be here tomorrow?

I was like, yup.

So that's how...

I'll be there tomorrow and for the next three weeks, you know, you just kind

of, it can be really disruptive to your life, but you know, that that has to be

your life, I guess, to start, you know, that has to be how you get in there.

Kelly Loughlin: Now when you hire your PAs these days, do you still go

by word of mouth or do you ever put postings online looking for people?

Chris Randall: We have used, so teaching at Grand Valley, I've put the word out

through Grand Valley channels to find PAs.

I love to get production assistance from Grand Valley students

that want to get on our sets.

I often work with the same assistant director, his name's Nate Robertson.

And if I'm working with him as an assistant director, I usually

refer to him to find the production assistants or let him kind of

pull in who he wants to work with.

Because again, in my experience, that's the chain of command.

It kind of goes anything that needs to be done by the production

assistant starts from Nate and gets kind of delivered down the line, so--

Tre Jackson: Is that Nate--

Chris Randall: I let him choose the people that he likes to work with,

that he feels comfortable with.

And then I also try to introduce, like I said, Grand Valley students,

once in a while, I'm like, Hey, can we work this person in there too?

And start getting them and with us so.

Tre Jackson: Hey Chris, is that Nate with the glasses?

Chris Randall: No, I don't-- no, I don't think so.

Kelly Loughlin: There's a lot of Nates at Grand Valley.

Tre Jackson: Okay.

Kelly Loughlin: I know three different Nates as well.

So it, it sounds like Staff Me Up is the thing that we keep coming back to.

I found the current position I'm at right now through StaffMeUp.com.

And so did Jesse Routhier when he's working over in New York city.

So when I was coming out here and I barely had any connections, the two big

websites I kept hearing was one, Staff Me Up and then two, EntertainmentCareers.net.

Some of the things we brought up were about skills they look for and

locations and times and such like that.

A lot of these job postings, it'll say, you know, where they want you to

meet at, for how long it'll be, if you should have your own vehicle or not.

And that was actually really helpful in helping me find out,

you know, what kind of position I even wanted or was qualified for.

So when I got my current position, yeah.

I found on Staff Me Up, I applied and I was called the next day, basically.

And then here I am over a year from now.

Chris Randall: I will say if I can real quick.

And even in Grand Rapids, I have a lot of friends who are working kind of

freelance and they are also using Staff Me Up and they get hired by a lot of

production companies coming in from LA or New York that are working in Grand

Rapids to work here or Detroit or Chicago.

So, even though I don't, we don't use it for our company to find

production assistants in Grand Rapids ourselves, I know a lot of my

friends put theirselves out on that to get work around here as well.

Kelly Loughlin: Yeah, for sure.

And we're so lucky because you know, we can see the listing of the job already

laid out and know what we have to come to, and it's not just, you know, getting

a call from a friend the night before saying, Hey, can you be here for such and

such at-- it helps us choose a bit more, but because of that, you know, people can

phrase jobs as in a way that might sound a little better than the job ends up being.

I certainly saw some online postings that seemed a little whoa, sketchy.

I don't know if this is right for me.

So in your guys' job search, have you seen any postings

that have come across as shady?

Or how do you tell if a job posting you either see online or get recommended

from a friend is going to be like, oh, I don't want to be involved with that.

Tre, have you ever seen something that made you sketch out and be like, I don't

know if I want to be involved in that?

Tre Jackson: Not before I got there.

I've always had pretty good gigs and I guess I'm referred from good people.

The only one that comes to mind is this one show that just had a

lot of politics going on whether it was like too many PA's, budget

drama, not like any real indicators.

I have been really fortunate to have really legitimate gigs, you know,

for the most part from referrals, and then I haven't used Staff Me

Up a lot because once I, once I got going, once you get involved, when

people know you, you just get referred by, you just continue to refer.

That's like the timeless, , reliable source.

Kelly Loughlin: That's good to know.

Chris, I imagine back in the day, it would've been harder to screen

what's going to be a bad job, 'cause it's not like you can see it in

writing ahead of time, you know?

Do you have any horror stories of things you got involved with?

Chris Randall: You can get on a production and start to tell pretty quickly if it's

going to be poorly managed, which is what makes it bad for the production assistant.

If they didn't do proper pre-production or you show up to the set and you see

that they don't have things organized and ready to go, that's the first time

that I would really get a sense, uh oh, this, this job might not be so good.

The only thing that I think you can question is when they

are offering work for no pay.

You know, it's 50/50.

Sometimes you want to take that job though, 'cause like I said, that

might be the thing that makes the connection for you for the future.

It also could be horrible, you know?

So it's like, you really got to, I dunno, you got to weigh how much of an

opportunity you actually think it is.

Maybe look into the production company or the people who are doing it.

See if they have anything out there that proves that they know what they're doing.

Ask other people.

In this town, you can ask other people if they've ever worked with somebody

and most of the time you'll find someone that has and can kind of tell

you how they feel about the production.

Tre Jackson: I would say, be wary of, um, I've never experienced it,

but some of the lower, low budget, productions, basically asking for a lot

more than a PA is supposed to be doing.

So it was like, we're going to need you to handle files DIT.

So, so run camera and it's like PA for, for 125, it's like, okay.

So there's that there's that?

I don't think that's very common, but I know it exists

Chris Randall: I've seen productions that are asking for a PA to

basically be an assistant director.

Phrasing it like it's a PA job.

Kelly Loughlin: What was it about the job that let you know that

they were asking too much about like how the duties blended over?

Like--

Chris Randall: Well, they're asking the PA to, you know, come in a week

before production and help with doing scheduling and maybe budgeting

and that kind of stuff, you know?

Tre Jackson: Yeah.

Chris Randall: A little more than a PA is what you're asking for here.

Tre Jackson: A PA can literally show up that day, no nothing and just thrive.

Like it's it's, you can just have nothing.

You just get your order and you do it.

And it's great if you're proactive, but there is no kind of all that stuff.

Randy Strobl: This episode is brought to you by the Chuck

Peterson Memorial fellowship.

The fellowship was established by Chuck Peterson's family and friends to assist

the upper-level students in the film and video program at GVSU who were working

on creative projects that support the nonprofit sector in their community.

Kyle Macciome, the 2020 recipient of that fellowship, describes the

benefits of the support he received.

Kyle Macciome: When going through this fellowship, there are three separate

parts of yourself that I think get to experience a lot of development.

The first is as a student, because this is a learning process.

You get to learn how to work with a client on your own independently,

out in the world, away from the classroom, like you would in

something like producing for clients.

And the second one would be as a video maker, as a video producer, as someone

who has respect for the work that they're doing and wants to improve on

themselves and produce a final product that can be used out in the real world.

And then the third one would be as a citizen.

You know, you're not making video for an entertainment value or for some

kind of commercial purpose, it's for a non-profit it's for a direct benefit in

your community and being a citizen of that community, understanding how you

can directly impact and improve it, um, is a really valuable experience that

I think the fellowship teaches you to be as, as a student, as a filmmaker

and as a citizen, all three of those things are directly a part of this

process that you get to learn and ask yourself, how do I want to be seen?

And how do I want to act as these three roles?

Randy Strobl: For more information and to donate to the scholarship, visit the link

in the description now back to the show.

Kelly Loughlin: Jesse gave me some comments about, when he was working

in New York City, it seems like he's worked on both union and non-union jobs.

So he is able to, you know, be able to discriminate a bit, a bit more

between what kind of jobs he took.

I did work for free a little bit when I first came out here, just to be able

to have something local on my resume, which ended up coming in handy because

then they can see, oh, you know, I might have a phone number with an

Indiana area code still, but here's all these projects I've worked on and

it was a blend of paid and unpaid.

I worked unpaid on a indie film, no name.

I don't even know if they getting up made, but I emailed my contact that

night, and I was like, Hey, you know, going forward, if you want me to return,

then I'm going to be asking for, you know, a certain amount of day rate.

Out here in Los Angeles, we actually have a minimum wage.

And for the PAs I think the minimum wage is about $150 a day, and then your

pay increases depending on, you know, the duties and the job position, but

it seems like the bare minimum that you get in LA is $150 for one day.

Tre, are you comfortable sharing what, like an entry level Atlanta PA rate is?

Or are you already so much above that, that you came in with a

higher, uh, starting rate than 150?

Tre Jackson: 150 is the standard.

You know, even when I first got on, started on Staff Me Up, that was what

I saw as a standard, and so that's where I've based things from, like

I said, commercials always pay more.

So, I think the commercial that I've worked on, they'll

ask me my day rate as a PA.

That was a little different.

And indie projects, they might try to say, you know, do 1, 125, if

they're really struggling, 100, but you know, any reality show, 150s.

I wouldn't go under 150 typically, unless I, some circumstance,

Kelly Loughlin: Is there anything extra that would like, oh, maybe he brought

a vehicle they'll throw in an extra hundred dollars or something, or if

you bring your laptop, have you ever seen something like that where they're

like, oh, well it's a PA, but you know, here's why we're going to pay a

little bit more to do such and such.

Tre Jackson: Just gas stipends, if you're driving a little bit, using

your vehicle or, um, you get per diem if you're in another city.

So $50 just for being in the city for food or whatever you may need, traveling.

But yet other than that overtime, after 12, time and a half, yeah.

Kelly Loughlin: Chris, uh, back in your experiences were

things $150 a day back then?

Or...

Chris Randall: I would say it was 125, maybe, you know, it wasn't, it

wasn't too much less than-- oh, when I was working in Los Angeles, there

was about that standard base rate.

And that base rate is the same here now too.

Commercial productions, even in Michigan are higher.

You know, it could be 200, 225, all the way up to 300.

And then your, you know, low budget indie movies made around Grand Rapids

that have a budget, you might be looking at a low end of 50 to $75 a

day that you'd have to agree with.

But for the most part commercial work that we do around here is around 150

a day for a production assistant.

Kelly Loughlin: Now only answer to the degr-- degree you're comfortable

with, but does it seem like, you know, you could fully survive off

of steady PA work at that rate?

Or did you have to supplement it with something else or does 150 seem fair?

Chris Randall: I think it did when I was doing it.

I thought it'd be great if I could get six days a week at $150 a day,

you know, I was excited for that.

So, I don't know if, in Los Angeles now, I don't know if he could

survive on that as a day rate.

But I'd say in Grand Rapids, you probably could.

You might want, something else as well.

And that would assume that you're, you know, getting PA work five

to six days a week every week.

You know, that, which usually isn't the case.

So, you would have to have something else going on somewhere.

Tre Jackson: I would say, yeah, I mean, for me $150 in 2015, 16 was-- single

individual, I mean, I live in Atlanta, so it's not like it's New York or anything.

So, individual, it worked for me, it really did.

And it was an entry level position.

It was more than what I'd get at minimum wage or something like that.

So it-- yeah.

You know, I mean, it's very, very rare that I have to pay for lunch.

Incredibly rare, so lunch is covered and.

Kelly Loughlin: Awesome free food.

Tre Jackson: Hey, free food and crafty.

Kelly Loughlin: Yes, crafty.

Crafty is always a big benefit, free snacks and everything like that.

So transitioning over to, it sounds like we're all either taking the next step in

our careers or about to be, or so Chris, you've managed to go all the way to that.

You're hiring PAs now and that's gotta be an awesome power shift.

So when you are now hiring PAs and you have the experience in mind of

what it is like to be one starting out, what do you look for in a PA?

And then what is just something we can do to make you stand out and let

you know, Hey, like I'm a good person.

I'm, I'm ready to come and just rock.

I got a good attitude.

How can you make that shine just through a resume or just

through something online, even?

Chris Randall: I, so again, it's, it's usually a recommendation from

somebody that knows the person, or me having met them or Nate, my assistant

director, and having met them or worked with them on something else.

So it is hard to just get that through in a resume.

But if I look at a resume, say from a film student and they are trying

to just start into it, but they show work that I could maybe go look at,

something that is online on YouTube or something, and they list their

credit properly, you know, they don't, they don't call themselves something

that they didn't do on a project, that's something that we can look for.

I think though once you get to the set is where you really stand out and it's,

it's with the attitude and then it's with the ability to know when to jump

and move really fast and when to kind of stand back and not get in the way.

But that's kind of a skill that you have to learn on production as well.

Kelly Loughlin: Tre, when you were first starting off and like maybe crafting your

Staff Me Up profile or working on your resume or something, did you ever get any

feedback about what made you get chosen or something that you knew was helpful

and suddenly made a difference like, oh, you're suddenly getting responses

to your posting now, or what's, what's something to do that you just made

yourself stand out in a way, in a way that maybe you couldn't meet that person

in person and, sell yourself in person?

Tre Jackson: Yeah.

In regards to Staff Me Up, one thing I did that I found was advantageous

putting my references in the cover letter so that you've minimized any extra

energy or time back and forth versus them saying, oh, I like your profile.

Do you have any references?

And you saying, you would reply in a few hours, oh yeah, here's my references.

They have all the information they need, so they can make a

decision quicker, faster by just having everything available.

That was something I used.

Other than that, what was your question?

I want to make sure, I feel, I felt like I had something else to say.

Kelly Loughlin: Just ways that you can stand out through resume or digital

profile alone when you don't have the luxury of doing word of mouth or

in person, or having any connections already existing to that job.

Have you found that's ever happened to you?

Tre Jackson: Yeah.

I did, you know, I did take a, with Linda Burns, she's very notable in Atlanta

or was, she had a workshop on how to PA, how to get in the film industry,

how to PA and part of that was resume.

So I did take on that structure that she noted.

So yeah, I actually went through like a little workshop.

I forgot about that, a while back.

And so I use that format.

It's a certain format just laying out your positions in a aesthetically

pleasing way, in a clear way.

And yeah, a little bit of a formula there, so.

Kelly Loughlin: Yeah.

Yeah, for sure.

Resume crafting.

Yeah.

that's cool that you attended a workshop.

That's super helpful, um, just to be able to get feedback on it directly.

So like I said, I found my, my job through Staff Me Up and, when I was interviewed,

it was actually interviewed by our production coordinator who was in charge

of hiring and, through Staff Me Up, they kind of have you do a, not a mini cover

letter, but just like a 70- character pitch about yourself for the position,

just so they can read a quick blurb.

And because I saw that the job posting was in the same city I lived in and

required all the skills that I had just been working for several years.

I was able to put in like 70 characters or less, I live four minutes away, I have

a vehicle, I've already been doing this for three years before I moved out to LA.

So even though I didn't have, you know, a connection to LA itself or anybody

who worked at my current position here, my coworker was able to see, oh, well

she lives nearby, she has a vehicle, and just the way that she was able

to sell herself in 70 characters, it seems like she's pretty competent.

So that was a great benefit of Staff Me Up alone, having that,

that feature of being able to pitch yourself in just a couple words.

And then also I could tell that that was what my coworker was looking for,

let's just make our lives easier, you know, show that you come as

a pre-packaged competent person.

And then of course, they're able to see that blurb and then see my cover letter

and then see my, my resume, which up at the top, I listed my most recent

ones and I was able to list those, you know, unpaid or kind of poorly paid

PA positions that are local and then transitioned to my Michigan credits,

the job I worked in Indiana, and that was able to make a difference for them.

Chris, when you are hiring your PAs and such, do you ever even take a

look at their resumes or is it just like entirely through word of mouth?

Have you seen any cool points that keep coming up on the better resumes?

Chris Randall: No.

I have looked at resumes and when, I was just thinking about it, when

I said, you know, listing credits, I guess if somebody sends us a resume

and all their credits are, I was a director on everything, or director of

photography, then we say, well, okay then.

I mean, you might work, but if somebody actually has some credits in there,

even if they're working for free, that are something along the lines of

production assistant, or even assistant director, those are the things that

would stand out to us as somebody who knows something about that position

uniquely, you know, or specifically.

So we have looked at resumes and we do, and I do actually have a file of

resumes when some students or people send them to me, on my computer.

So if we do get in a position where we're, you know, looking for some

extra help or some extra PA work on a production, I do go to that file

and just kind of go back through it.

And I've started to create a list of students that I've worked with

from Grand Valley over the years.

And eventually PAs usually kind of move on to other positions.

So you, that's a position that keeps kind of filtering through.

Whereas most of the other positions on our crew have been the same people

for years, 'cause we get comfortable with working with the same people.

So, I would say that resumes do work.

Kelly Loughlin: That's awesome.

That's good to know, yeah.

'Cause it's, it's good to know that the resumes do work and are helpful because

I mean, you know, you're concerned if you move to new area, you may not have

that network, but it's good to show that you can work from the ground up

these days through these online profiles and resumes and you definitely have a

chance, even if you don't know anybody.

Tre Jackson: Really quickly, um, I just thought about specifying sometimes.

Like I've been a talent PA.

If you're doing talent work, like mainly working with talent, then that might

help, something like that as well.

Kelly Loughlin: That's awesome.

Now we've talked so much about getting that first job, but staying at that

first job is equally important.

We have a question asking about if there's a job where they load too

much on you or things you're not comfortable doing, or you can just tell

like, wow, this is a lot, what do you do in a way that doesn't, you know,

give you a bad name with everybody?

Or how do you just handle that situation when you're just

overwhelmed with your PA duties?

Chris Randall: One of the first PA jobs I had, I ended up being basically an

assistant camera person slash a grip.

So what I did was eventually after a week of being asked to do those things,

I asked for a bump up in my pay and a different credit as a grip and they

agreed to it because they were, it was a low budget thing, but they didn't really

have anyone else to go to at the time.

I think I was just in a good position to do that.

And they realized that they were asking me to do more.

That's the one time I've personally dealt with that also on that same production,

they asked me to do one or two things that I didn't feel comfortable, I felt

was dangerous, and I just said no.

And, um, didn't do it.

They didn't have me do it.

So I don't, I don't know if I was lucky with that particular production that I,

I guess it was kind of to a point where I felt like, look, I'm going to say this

and if they fire me, that's just fine.

You know, either they're going to pay me more and give me a different

credit or they'll let me go.

So I feel like you don't have a lot of, leverage as the production assistant

on a crew, because there are a lot of people willing to do the job.

but you definitely should stick up for yourself, especially if you feel unsafe.

And I think that's become a much bigger thing with production,

even within the last 10 years.

If you feel unsafe, let them know and stick up for yourself and don't do

anything that's gonna, you know, you feel like is going to risk yourself

or harm to yourself or other people.

Kelly Loughlin: Hey Tre, have you, it sounds like, I mean, you drove

a truck from Atlanta to Chicago, it seems like you've pretty much tackled

everything they've thrown at you.

Have you ever had to say no for safety reasons?

Or you could just tell, like, this is beyond what one person can do?

Tre Jackson: I've, like I said, I've worked with really great people,

quality people and the person who got us the one job when, when we drove

equipment to Baton Rouge, Louisiana, on the way back, I think we just said

that we needed a hotel for the night.

We needed a time to rest and not go all the way.

And I mean, it's for our safety, safety of the equipment, and so they, they agreed.

Like I would say, you know, communication is the most, one of the most valuable

skills and just professionalism, and so it's very important that you

communicate, what it is that you need.

Communication.

Communicate what needs to be communicated so that the best

outcome can be found between you and whoever you're working with.

Kelly Loughlin: Yeah.

It works out for everybody when the PA isn't overloaded with

things and things fall through.

So we have a, kind of a fun note that we could start wrapping up on.

It's talking about strange PA stories or any other fun things

you've had to do in that position.

Me personally, I was working as an art production assistant.

And I was getting some set dressing and stuff for this Comedy Central

proof of concept shooting, it, it was only going to be shooting one time,

maybe turn into a show, but they also wanted me to do warmup as talent.

So they miked me up and pushed me on set within 30 seconds to say,

Hey, you're just the filler for the talent we're going to have here.

And they're kind of throwing questions at me as they would the

person that you're interviewing.

And I have kind of a comedy background, so I was able to like riff a little bit

and make everybody laugh, and that was a fun moment, but I mean, we're always

doing weird things in this industry.

So, do you guys have any strange stories on things you've been a part of?

Chris Randall: It was kind of an exciting thing, I guess.

I don't totally want name drop or anything, but, um, it, it, it came

from the Planet of the Apes set because all of the main actors were in this

really extensive ape makeup that was, you could see their expressions

through it, you know, their mouths and everything would move, but

it took hours for them to put on.

And specifically, I remember one morning being sent to get Starbucks

for Tim Roth, who was in the makeup.

And when I went in his trailer to give it to him, I had to help him put a straw

in it and put the straw in his mouth so that he wouldn't mess his makeup up.

That was, I'll never forget that.

That was fun.

Kelly Loughlin: You were an animal handler.

Chris Randall: Pretty much.

Tre Jackson: You know, I can't think of any good stories, like really.

Nothing like really memorable, I mean.

Kelly Loughlin: Just normal work stuff.

Tre Jackson: Not-- yeah.

Not like anything they asked and I was like, oh, I don't know.

I'm pretty, like, I can do it.

I can do whatever for the most part, I mean.

Kelly Loughlin: It's a good skill to have.

Tre Jackson: Yeah.

Yeah yeah yeah.

Nothing that applies to that question.

I've had stories, but there's nothing like

Kelly Loughlin: For sure.

so just looking to wrap up and get everything in summary today, what are just

some closing things that you can say on a GV student who's just got their mind on

making their first break into the world.

What's your, what's your closing parts of wisdom that you've got for somebody who's

just so anxious about making sure that this all works out and all pays off after

studying for four years at Grand Valley?

Chris Randall: I think that it's mostly, once you're out there into the world,

it's mostly your effort and what you, what you're willing to put into it

that's going to give you back success, which starts usually at the PA position.

So, the attitude and the effort and the willingness to do what needs

to be done and kind of learning your part in the whole production.

It's all about the attitude and the effort and your willingness to really put

forth a lot of effort to get out there.

Tre Jackson: I would definitely agree with that.

I would say, you know, self-awareness is really key.

Understanding what it is that your strengths are, what you bring.

So, if you are a comedic person, then just know that and bring that.

If you are a very analytical, organized person, then bring that.

Have that align with your goals and what you, where you want

to go, what you want to do.

So like this one PA I work with, and I just know, I don't even try to fight

this, like he is a better PA than me because his energy, his personality

is very much like, what do you need?

Anything.

Like, you got it?

And, oh-- and he just has that.

I'm a little more chill.

I'm not going to be as like, I'm not going to jump as fast as you're going to jump.

You know what I'm saying?

And I just, stuff like that, just have self awareness like what's for you

will be brought to you in environments and positions and explore be open.

Kelly Loughlin: You know, I, I kept hearing the same thing when

I was at school at Grand Valley.

They're like, oh, the attitude is most important and just being a team

player and everything like that.

But the thing is that is genuinely it though.

That is what is so true.

Just about being mentally present and just being there and just having that

body language and everything that someone can just look around, scan

their eyes, someone higher up than you and be like, okay, I just need

someone to go run and grab something.

And when they see that you're mentally engaged, you're there, you're not on

your phone or looking off in Lala land, like they can tell like you are in it to

win it and I'm going to keep you around, and that is what makes the difference.

I have been on sets where I'm not the only PA and then they're off

on their phone or they're always in crafty or hiding in the bathroom.

And it's, it's just not a good look.

And I, I have such a happy moment.

Our producer just, she walked in, she said, you, I like you.

And she didn't even hire me and, well didn't originally hire me.

It's just so true that attitude and engagement and awareness, and

self-awareness, it truly is the best thing you can bring to the

table, and then the rest of your skills and your resume will follow.

Tre Jackson: It sounds like commitment.

Like just really be committed to being great to work with.

Can I ask one final question?

Just like, were you and Chris, how your positions as a PA have set you up for, you

know, where you want to go, where you are?

Kelly Loughlin: Yeah, I, I, my PA job has just shown me, everyone I can see

above me that I work with every day and I can see what the feature is in this job.

And Chris is a sitting professor at Grand Valley, so it seems like

you've kind of gone in all different kinds of directions, it seems so.

Chris Randall: PA'ing, especially around here in the Grand Rapids area

when I came back from Los Angeles, introduced me to a lot of the people

that I'm still working with today.

As I've moved up to, you know, write and direct and produce stuff, we

found our crew, found people that we got along with and worked well with.

Kelly Loughlin: Awesome.

Well, thank you so much again, you guys, and thank you everyone at

home for your amazing questions.

I hope this makes you more comfortable in your future as a Laker for the lifetime.

No matter where in the country or the world you end up, you've got the

education behind you and you've got, your alumni have your back, and we're, we're

willing to help you out any way you can.

Thank you everyone.

Randy Strobl: Thank you for joining us for this episode of Alumni Live: the Podcast.

Subscribe to our podcast to hear more from our alumni across the industry.

Check out Alumni Live on Facebook, Instagram, and YouTube for more

conversations and networking.

Let us know what topics you want to hear our alumni talk about.

The Grand Valley State University Film Video Alumni Network is here for

you, and we're glad that you're here.

Thank you for listening.