Welcome to Alumni Live The Podcast.

These are conversations with Grand Valley State University film and video

graduates about the industry, the film, video, major and alumni profiles.

Hey guys, how do I sound?

How do I look both great.

Okay.

Looks good to me.

We are live with the grand valley alumni discussion here with

Charles Beale and Jake Bowen.

Hey guys.

so we're going to, we are alive right now and we're going to be talking for.

I think between 45 minutes an hour, about what it means to be a micro-budget

filmmaker in today's era and how to kind of navigate your place through this

industry and hear what Jake and Charles have been up to after graduation, which

has been about 10 years now and hear what they're up to my name's Joel Potrykus.

I am a professor at Grand Valley and a filmmaker as well.

,I'm going to be moderating this discussion.

Hopefully we can shed some insight on the process of what it means to be an

independent filmmaker with not a lot of money and a, not a lot of resources

and trying to fight your way through.

So let's start with Jake, Jake, where you come from, right.

, I'm currently at my parent's place in grand Haven, Michigan.

I'm actually in between, , I just moved out of Ohio and, a

few days for now moving to LA.

So I'm kind of in transition right now.

What's going on in Ohio?

Sure.

My wife, , was finishing her . PhD at a school there.

And so I was living in Oxford.

It's like Southwest Ohio.

But, , she just did that.

She's a doctor now and a PhD she's in biology.

And so she has a job out in Whittier, California, which is right outside LA.

so we're heading there soon.

Rule number one for the struggling independent filmmaker marry into money.

, you are, I believe you are also beaming from Michigan as well, but where's

your, where's your roots right now?

Or where are you in transit from?

Um,

Yeah, so, New York is actually where I've been based for the past three, four years,

, with my partner, Jess, who's also part of Studio Fest, which we'll talk about later.

so right now I'm also visiting my parents in Michigan.

, we actually bought a motor home for three grand and have been outfitting

it into a production vehicle, doing the rounds before we head out and try

and figure out what the next step is while we're producing a couple of.

Let's just stop right there.

explain the, motor home.

what is the idea behind?

Yeah, so, I mean, when you get into micro budget filmmaking, you find that

there are so many things that, , can be done cheaper or more efficiently.

There's a lot of waste in big films and you don't have that kind of money or the

ability to waste that and micro budgets.

So, we know that one of the films coming up requires somebody

who is an elderly person.

So we got to have somewhere that they can rest and relax on set, but some

of our sets are going to be mobile.

So we decided, well, we're going to have to rent a motor home or some sort of

production vehicle where talent can relax.

And we're looking at prices.

Well, maybe we can find something that we could buy that would cost

about the same amount as how much we would be spending in rent.

So, jessfound something on Facebook marketplace, $3,000.

We'd been outfitting that, and it's looking like a pretty

sweet production vehicle now.

. So you're not going to live in this though, right?

I think that's a part of being a micro budget.

Filmmaker is modeling everything, stretching the dollar.

And so we're living rent free for a couple of months while we produce.

I think that's so awesome because I mean, people like when it comes to

independent filmmaking, you really, there are no rules and people, I think when

they go to school and then when they graduate, they expect to like go to an

office where they get an application and this a rule book, and this is how you

make a movie and this is where you go.

And they're just, there isn't anything like that in the industry.

Not, it's not like when you get your PhD and you just go apply at a job.

And so.

Everybody's kind of making their own way.

So I'm actually pretty envious that you may actually be living in this and it'll

be a talent trailer and you're going to have all of your gear and things in there.

So it will be the studio storing underneath.

, we're going to outfit it also to do like podcasts and audio, , recording.

So, , while it probably won't be a great EDR set or studio, it will be

good for something that we can record.

But we're branching out into like audio plays and things like that.

But, yeah, oddly enough, this motor home has more square footage

than our apartment in New York.

Okay.

So that's what I was going to ask.

So, your base, you and jester in New York and what are you going to do with

the motor home while you're in New York?

Well, that's a big question right now.

If the question really is, are we even going to go back to New York

because right now, you know, with COVID and how things are going, , we

might find that things are on lockdown and, , you know, going in and out for

the next year and a half, 18 months.

So our thought is micro budget.

Filmmaking is really going to be one of the only ways to make films

effectively, efficiently and safely for, you know, the foreseeable future.

And so we're thinking what's going to best accommodate that in New York city.

It's just not the best place to make ultra low budget things.

There's so there's a lot of red tape.

It can be a lot more difficult than, you know, making something in

Michigan, making something in the woods in grand rapids, you know?

Yeah.

So one of the big questions when somebody graduates from a film

program is do I go out west and essentially work for other people?

And make your way up the ranks or do you go live wherever you want, Michigan New

York, Tennessee, and make your own thing and carve out your own kind of voice.

And so Jake, what was the first move?

And what was the decisions after you graduated?

Was there a kind of big dilemma of what to do?

Really?

I, I kind of early on had that.

Came to that conclusion that I didn't see the purpose of moving out west.

I actually really value the ability to go out on some . Street even

in a busy area in the Midwest.

No, one's going to hassle you about that.

They'll be like, oh, he's taking a picture or something and, , not

have to get, you know, worry about permits and things like that.

I think that in the, you know, kind of the current era, with the internet

and everything, I just don't really see that there isn't, , I didn't see

the need to be geographically located in LA to still get a lot of, most

of what I would need out of LA, you know, I could be there for a period of

time if I had to be or something, or even live there for a period of time,

but I never saw that as imperative.

So it's kind of ironic actually, that I'm about to move there,

not because of my career, but because of my wife's in biology.

So, , , yeah, that was never an issue for me.

I just thought.

I figured I'd live wherever I wanted to.

So, and so after graduation, where did you go?

Did you stay in Michigan?

Do you go somewhere else for a few years?

And then, , yeah.

And then I just, I, when I married, , when I got married, , I moved in with my

wife in, in Ohio, and that was about the extent of the decision and, , you know,

I, I, it was close enough that I could, I could come back here and I actually do

like to come back here to shoot things.

So I think, , Michigan with the lake and everything, it's just a great

location for that kind of stuff.

So it was mostly, it was mostly just a mindset of whatever I want to do.

I can probably do remotely from wherever and I can go to the place.

I need to shoot something if it's, if it's about that.

But my home base could be really wherever.

So yeah, I think you nailed it.

And that's, that was the big, when I, when I finished, grand Valley's film

program, it was, there was kind of seemed like half of the class was going to go out

west and then the other half were like, we're going to stay here or we're going

to go somewhere else and do our own thing.

And I was part of that, do my own thing.

And that is what I've discovered staying in Michigan and making films

is that you don't need the permission because people are excited that

you, you know, you want to shoot in their restaurant or their house.

They're not jaded and ask for permits and, , , location fees and things like that.

I think it is.

If you're, especially if you're doing the micro budget, kind of

filmmaking that thing, wherever your home is, wherever your friends are,

wherever your family are, people that can help you and are supportive.

That is.

Infinitely a greater resource than moving to LA and kind of being a one of many

who are trying to do the same thing, and everybody's kind of fighting for talent

and locations and things like that.

So I totally understand that.

How about you Charles?

What was after graduation?

What did you do and what were you thinking about doing?

Yeah, actually, it's funny.

Cause for a while, Jake and I were talking about how we had sort of a great symbiotic

relationship going on where, you know, he stayed in Ohio and Michigan and was

able to make things more effectively.

And then I, on the other hand, went out to Los Angeles and I got incredibly lucky.

, I went out with no plan and, , was all the way in Las Vegas on this trip out there.

And my sister, who's also an alumni from grand valley actually.

, She, she has a way of panicking about things.

And so she heard, I have nowhere to stay nowhere to go.

And she's panicking on the phone in her production office, where she's

at, , producing on a film in Louisiana.

And we're working on a film in Louisiana, in the set accountant over

here, her, it says, I actually need a house sitter, send them to my place.

And I ended up staying there for two years.

Got me my first job in the industry as a PA as a post PA on a films, the

Expendables to an Olympus has fallen.

And I think that really is a great prototype of just

like the accidental aspect.

But that being said, we, I ultimately left Los Angeles and most of

some of my other bigger credits came from being back in Michigan.

, like, , the end of the tour and Batman versus Superman, I got to be

Jesse Eisenberg stand in on those.

And it gave me a great like front row seat to how some of those bigger

sets or even independent sets.

Or the lid tier ones.

And, and so having left there now, we are sort of leaning and thinking

back into going to the Los Angeles area now that we actually have

something to offer other people.

Because when you go out there by yourself, you are there's, it

is just a saturated market with aspiring filmmakers and actors.

And it can be really difficult to separate yourself.

And now that we have something that looks like a studio or, and has some renowned

to it, now we have something that people want to actually talk to us about.

So I think it's kind of like thinking about what assets you have, what things,

what opportunities are going to have out there, or if that's waiting for you out

there and how to best prepare yourself.

And what's going to be the most effective for you.

And, you know, we ultimately shot our feature film souvenir.

Shutter filming, , in Northern Michigan.

So like still, we had to come back here to make the budgets work, to

make, , you know, find our team and, you know, make that happen.

So yeah, there's benefits to each thing.

So it's hard to argue with the density, the industry density in Los Angeles, you

know, at least half the people you talk to are going to be a part of the industry.

But that also means that there's a lot of saturation and you're going to have

a harder time separating yourself.

And if I could just add something, I would say one, one, I guess one concern

I have, I think about not going to a place that's highly competitive and has

lots of people working toward the same thing I think is that you can slip into

a certain amount of complacency or you could be like the, the, the best, the

most successful filmmaker, you know, in your regional area or something.

And not really be, there's a danger of not, pushing yourself as far

as you need to go , to really be a competitive outside of that, or do what

you need to grow the way you need to.

And, and, but I think that if you're in this kind of a theme for me, but I think

if you're able to honestly assess what you're doing and your ability and what

you need to do to, to improve or get to the next level and can fight off that kind

of, , tendency then, I definitely liked.

Having the, you know, being in a, a place like the Midwest or wherever,

that's a way from that, that stuff.

Yeah.

And, and we're going to be getting into, , in a minute, Jake and

Charles, what they're up to right now.

And I see that.

So we are beaming live on Facebook and, and viewers can

ask questions or just choose to chirp in, chime in with comments.

There is a question, but I wanna, I wanna step back.

Oh, well just ask it jazz ed or it's, what's the best way to get money for

your films other than crowdfunding, Are there studios that are willing to put

up money for independent filmmakers?

So we have our first question, but I want to, , I have some I'm I'm, I'm afraid.

I'm gonna forget what I'm gonna ask Jake, but I, I won't, I won't, so this is fine.

Someone who's controlling the questions and that is totally fine.

This is how this is gonna roll.

We're just gonna, we're just gonna do it on the fly.

So.

I guess that's a great segue.

Now, before we get into the segue, we'll deal with Charles and Jake

are up to Jake after doing a little bit of internet digging around.

Is it true that you were, you were in patch Adams?

No, it's not.

I think that's just the, , , that's one of the.

I am DB, , , doppelganger things.

I almost did say I'm not in patch.

Adams was almost going to rent it and scrub through and look for a

little kid that I recognize that was a big burning question that

everybody was wanting to ask.

So we just did that up.

You could speak to that a little, actually.

I think I could briefly speak to that, which college people were starting to

put your credits, your IMDV credits.

Cause you know, we'd put our short films on there, , onto like they attributed

to Jake Bowen and that one just happened to be where everything was aggregating.

And I think at some point it became a conscious decision.

We're just pirating that, or just commandeering that credit

and not creating Jake a new one.

So we just happened to have a long standing history.

Cool.

Maybe I wasn't patch Adams.

That's a possibility.

Okay.

So back to this question about how does you know that this is the quote

unquote million dollar question, how to independent filmmakers find their money.

And I'm going to give my, because, because I feel that maybe Charles

and Jake are S are like, don't have perspective on what they're doing.

So I'm going to summarize what they are doing.

And then you guys correct me if I'm way wrong, because, , I've, I, I

spoke with you very briefly about this, but I watched him promo.

So this is a test to see if your promos are doing what

they're supposed to be doing.

So, okay.

Jake and Charles founded a film festival called studio Fest and

the, this was their third year.

And so the principle of this festival is that they are looking for the work.

They are screening short films and they, the winter.

Afterwards, you can correct me on all of these mistakes.

So the, there one winner chosen one filmmaker by an audience, maybe I'm

wrong on that one writer, one director, and they are getting it wrong.

They are paired up.

And what Carlton Jake does, the mission of the festival is they will fund their first

feature film, which is totally unique and novel approach to a festival is basically

what every independent filmmaker assumes or hopes when they get into a festival is

like I made it, I got the golden ticket.

All the producers are going to come up to me.

All of the financers, my first feature.

No problem.

We'll be shooting next summer.

Basically never the case.

It's never that simple.

So this festival was founded with that intention to support, up and coming

filmmakers with their first feature film.

, Jake, Charles, and Charles, his partner, Jess will produce the project,

see it through from beginning to end, including distribution, which

we're going to get to in a moment.

How did I do guys?

And then you take it from there.

Okay.

It's close.

It's pretty close.

, but don't, , I, it's actually a really, it's been really difficult to, quickly

and easily convey all of this, but yeah, it's hard to do the one sentence version.

Yeah.

, but generally, yes.

So, , Myself, Jake and Jess, we're all producers, founders of studio Fest.

And are just like you said, we were going to festivals, not getting out

of those festivals, what we wanted and decided that we were going to try

and do something that was going to streamline the process for filmmakers.

You know, we were going to festivals that were the big markets, you know,

so we're not necessarily talking about the big markets, but like, we'd go to

something out in Richmond, Virginia, and the theater would be empty.

And you know, the only people there in the industry where other filmmakers

who are all looking for the same opportunities you are looking for.

And so, you know, sort of dismayed we're like, let's just make

something that cuts out all the.

That says exec does exactly what we want in a festival, which is

picks a writer and a director.

So two separate people, and this is a little influx right now, cause we're,

we're working through our formula.

But as of where it stands right now is we pick a writer and a director,

, five writers and five directors are invited to our festival each year.

They permit, they show their short films.

, we do excerpt readings from their feature like scripts for the writers.

And at the end of the weekend, it is much more intimate weekend than other

festivals where they get to meet and talk at a sort of a, , a really different

level with our judges and ourselves.

At the end of the weekend, we pick one writer, one director to pair up and

we'll be financing, producing their debut feature film that they come

together to create an idea, , with our guidance brand new, , on a microphone.

Yeah.

Yes, so it's, it's a really incredible, kind of idea.

And the fact that you were able to actually put it into fruition is amazing.

Let me just ask the obvious question.

Where does the financing come?

Yeah.

So the first film, , came from Jess and I actually predominantly, , and

that's where in New York we're working those commercial jobs.

you know, I like to joke that, , souvenirs was brought to you by Walmart, , because I

was doing hot, , Walmart, commercial work.

And, so Jess and I put up the financing for that.

We said, you know, 50 grand was the cash budget, but then we went and got

partnerships, leveraging studio Fest as a festival, as a brand and got

partnerships with heard city, which was a great mix facility in New York.

They do a lot of commercials.

, and Marvin sent music.

Who's a really great, music, , , aggregation site, , where you can, you

know, pull Jake, you, you, , you've been working a lot with their assets.

It's also creation.

They, they have a bunch of.

Musicians and a bunch of people that, that licensed their stuff through it.

So it's not just like a stock , cited.

They also create original things.

Right.

And then share grid.

, some people might be familiar with, which is like a, peer to peer

rental system for a film equipment.

And they sponsored us.

They heavily subsidized the cost of things.

So a lot of our, a lot of the money went directly to the

cast and crew and team members.

And so overall at the end of the day, we've elevated , our budget.

, what is it called in kind budget closer to $200,000, , rather than $15,000.

I will tell you, I did not know that, that you guys put up your own money.

That is insane.

I will tell you why that's insane, but I'm sure you already know why that's

insane to all the viewers out there.

I'm sorry to tell you that.

Making money back in the independent film world.

Really really difficult and takes a long time.

So the fact Charles that you put up you and just put up your own money,

why is it because you believed in this idea so much, or you reached out to

answers and you couldn't find anybody and you had the dates for the festival.

I mean, is this the plan from now on is to continue to self-finance these

films it's not, and here's the deal.

I think this is something that's so critical for filmmakers to understand

is that it is a film business.

There's a business side of it.

And so what we are paying attention to is rather than

making what you're talking about.

Making individual films can be really difficult to make your money

back, but that's why studio Fest.

Isn't just a singular film.

It's an ecosystem.

So we have a pre-marketing campaign and that's the festival.

We have something that is alluring to, , investors.

And that's, , the fact that we are a studio, whereas individual films, unless

you've built your name and which is incredibly hard to, even when you built

your name, you have to people like Martin Scorsese that, , you know, he, he still

struggles to get financing for, for films.

What's the one we were talking about, Jake, that was, you know,

wasn't the Irish, I can't remember which one it was, but yeah.

So, , it can be, it's incredibly difficult, but if you can reduce the

risk of investors, , it, you become that much more attractive and easier to.

, bring into or in easier to get financing.

So the next films we've already gotten predominantly like at large portion

finance through investors, because we have a larger system, a larger

ecosystem than just one-off films.

Now they know that if they're investing in something, the, we have the

relationships, we're bringing it to it.

We have the track record as producers that we're bringing to it.

And yeah, we have just a lot more to offer than a one-off film might typically.

And I think key safety too.

I think a key to that too, is that the, if you were just putting up your money

for one film, one time, none of that added that 150,000 extra added value

through sponsorships and everything would have probably come in because

it's just for a one-off film, you know?

And so the festival and the structure around it is what

drew in that additional stuff.

So it's a, there is some grant money in it, but it's a

movie that looks and sounds.

Is bigger than what that number would, otherwise indicate.

And therefore it's, got a lot better shot at making its money back.

So, and then, so maybe so, right.

And so is, this is for Jake and Charles, is this your full-time jobs, both running

studio Fest and producing these films?

Or it seems like a lot of work.

Yeah.

We're actually using, , the pandemic to transition into making it full time.

You know, everything's gotten a little more streamlined.

You know, the, I will admit that unemployment has been helping

happen, you know, in New York things aren't exactly winding back up yet.

And, so yeah, we're using this opportunity to transition into making

this totally full-time, but I will say it's been like a full-time job on top of.

Other full-time jobs that we've been doing.

So, yeah.

And if I could, , if I could touch on the, the viewer's question a little bit,

I just wanted to say that I think that to some degree, that question they ask where

they basically saying, how does this work?

Is there a pool of money sitting in studio somewhere that they're just waiting

to give out to people with cool ideas?

Or I'm not sure exactly how they're imagining it, but I think that a lot of

people, , filmmakers up and coming people have that perception, or they aren't sure

because it's not clear how this all works.

And part of that's because it's always changing and what works now, the way

it works now is different from before.

But part of that I think is just that there's a lot of kind

of mysticism around it all.

And I think.

In some ways studio DFS came out of that.

Very thing that it's that frustration of, how do you get something funded?

And there's sort of a paradox to our ethos about this, because on the one

hand, we're trying to be the student.

That's trying to be that thing, that sort of unicorn that just takes in

some filmmakers and hands them a budget if they, you know, , if they earn it.

And, and on the other hand, our kind of position on this stuff

and I'm channeling Jess here.

Who's, , she likes to quote, , mark Duplass saying, , the cavalry isn't

coming where it's like that, that some of that is just, it's not to say it

never happens, but it is so rare even for people who have sometimes gotten

through Sundance or are established.

It's so rare to just have your movie financed by somebody

just handed to you like that.

People will lose years and decades at a time trying to to chase that unicorn,

I said that already, but, sometimes.

And so I think, I feel like the short answer to that question generally for

most people is just no to the, is there a studio that's going to give you money

unless you're like in that system.

And you're compromising a lot on what you want to do.

If what you're talking about is making a movie that is yours and you

have full creative control over it, and it's something you want to do.

And you're not, it's not checking all the boxes of market viability.

That would be on some spreadsheet, somewhere in a, in a studio.

The answer is probably no, unless you're going through CTFs maybe.

And so, , that's kinda, that's kind of, and, and also that, that side show

or that show that we're working on that we'll probably talk about later.

Addressing some of this.

So yeah, that a quote that you just mentioned, if everybody

listening, if you are an inspiring filmmaker, you need to look up.

Mark Duplass is south by Southwest keynote speech.

It's about an hour long and he just, he just drops.

I mean, mark Duplass is, has done it his own way and carved out his own, his

own niche and, and has become incredibly successful that he kind of lays out

how he pulled that off in the speech.

That's on YouTube.

This episode is brought to you by the Chuck Peterson Memorial fellowship.

The fellowship was established by Chuck Peterson's family and friends to assist

the upper-level students in the film and video program at GVSU who were working

on creative projects that support the nonprofit sector in their community.

So speaking of studio Fest in your first film, , the first film that was produced

through studio festival souvenirs.

And we're going to talk about where the process is right now, but I thought

before we get too much into the film or the, So if you guys want to just

briefly talk about what we're going to see here and we'll watch it, or we're

just gonna watch it on this one, chewing on one of the smaller guys tales nearly

came clean off sparing the house.

Hi rice.

Oh, Hey Jacob, do anything in a bigger bag.

Look in the back.

Thanks.

What do we have here?

We confirm your pets.

, it's for my grandma.

That's are cute.

I guess.

She has is as sneak my grandma's snake.

You are, grandma has a snake.

I see darkness runs in the family.

About my cousin.

I know Torah.

It can be a bit much.

I'm sorry, how could I make it up to you?

What'd you say movie and some ice cream.

Just a movie then.

Sorry, your voice.

We don't have anything.

Gotcha.

Thanks for checking.

I have to go back to my grandma.

How have you opened the night?

We call it tonight as perfect time to spare.

Come with me to a movie.

We can skip the, I really can't tonight.

I'm sorry.

Okay.

Orange jacket

choice

three bucks.

So, , what do you think you're going to be doing with the store?

You mean, if you go off to college, if you're your grandma

Abbott's pass away, man.

I just figured if she's gone, you might want to, , do something different.

I don't know.

I've never really thought about it.

Okay, great.

Well, have a nice day.

Okay.

To.

Well, what are you waiting for really girl, sometimes I can't believe you.

Sorry,

you would've had Lilith star.

She has a right to eat.

Snakes or friends to women since all the way back in the garden,

Adam would have kept us barefoot and pregnant too ignorant to complain.

It was the kindly old serpent who saved us from that.

A love that final image mounts dead in your mouth.

So yeah, Jake actually shot that on a black magic.

Yeah.

That was a pickup.

The snake wouldn't behave on, on the actual shoot day.

Wondering if you guys just conveniently had a snake eat a mouse, you know, while

the clock is ticking and the money is draining out, waiting this to happen.

So that is, that was a clip from the first feature film produced and financed

by studio Fest called souvenirs.

So Jake and Charles, how did you come to select, , Matt and Anna, who are

the writer and director of this film?

And what did you see in them that gave you the confidence that they

could make a successful feature film?

Yeah.

I think that's something that I, you know, I think Jess and I, for this first film,

, probably vocalize much more, , as to why we selected Matt Nana and Matt would just

start with Matt, the writer, I would say he really showed a masterful perspective

on, , structure, , which is something that we felt was missing in a lot of, , a lot

of the writers that we were looking into or the people that were coming to us.

You know, it's structure is something that you, you really should know the D the,

the, you really should know the basics.

And I don't even think structure is like, structure is difficult.

So like, you really should master that before.

We're a mastery of that will help you be able to play with the other elements.

I would say so structure is just an incredibly important

and especially important.

We think in, in this process, , it can, it helps us with our process

and knowing like if it's something we all get behind in our feeling rights,

we should have our foundation stuff.

So we're looking for a lot of foundational elements.

, so with writers, structure is very important to me.

Jess would probably vocalize something else.

, but for me, I look for structure.

He's also more Norris too, by the way, he's a workhorse.

He pumped out a script, , every month for like three months in a row doing this.

So he really like killed it.

And, , we're excited to be working, continue to be working with them, , extra.

When you have writers and directors, they submit a short

film or they also submit a script.

Yeah.

So, , so we're inviting five directors and five writers.

So 10 people total, and our writers should be submitting and it.

The, the I'm sure the link will come up here, but, , , writers should be

submitting a feature-length script and directors, people who want to be

considered for the directing position should be submitting a finished short

film, and nobody can have their debut feature having been produced yet.

So, , you know, that's where we come in.

We're trying to get you to that next level.

But all of that being considered, we are still, you know, perfecting our formula.

It's got room to grow.

So this year we're actually not only making one film with our winners,

but we've actually selected another one of the finalists who script

we optioned and they're are both writing and directing a feature.

, that person is writing and directing a feature for us.

So we'll be doing two features, , That's what we're prepping anyway,

at the moment, just to clarify real quick, the, the movie souvenirs was

a completely original PR , product.

Like it wasn't a script that was submitted and then turned into it.

Although that could happen.

That's not like precluded by the rules or anything, but most of

the time or in this case, anyway, it was, it was an original idea.

Yeah.

One of the reasons why we want to create something new is because we don't want

to be like some of those other, other competitions out there that sort of like

take your product and then run with it.

And then you get kind of left in the dust.

So we're partners, we're not, we're not here to do that.

If you don't feel comfortable with us, you know, producing or, , coming on for your

script, we're not even going to inquire.

So, you know, this is a unique case with this other film where, , the

script, he was very into our process.

And so we're taking it all the way in that form as well.

And so that writer's name was Matt . So Villa, was that correct?

So master Villeau is the winner of, , LA , Phoenicia and, , , and

did souvenirs, , and Anna Maconomy is the director, and we really loved

how she was getting her performances.

That, , if you go through her short films, she's got a very nice variety,

all with solid, solid performances.

And that, you know, you can tell is she actually comes from an active background

and it, you know, we just thought acting, you know, story and acting

are so critical to independent films.

And you know, you can get away with not the best equipment, but as long

as your story's there and the actors and the performances are believable,

you're going to be in a good position.

So those were what we did.

so the film was shot and is complete.

And the next step for filmmakers is, you know, after the high of

getting it completed and picture lacked is the confusing and difficult

part of finding distribution.

So this is where studio Fest has kind of branched off into.

You know, new Heights here where Charles and Jake and Jess are producing

a television series and non fish striction web series, which follows

their trials and tribulations of getting distribution for this film.

And for future films, it's called demystified.

And it is a YouTube series that is hosted by MovieMaker.

So you can find the link online on YouTube.

The bar MovieMaker, there's four episodes, , there for deep right now, still going.

I have watched all four episodes guys and the first four mostly focus on.

So, you guys just kind of this new territory of the American film market

and watching those first four episodes, especially episodes two and three, I just

had that sick pit in my stomach listening.

I'll just be straight up.

You guys can gloss over if you want, but I'm listening to the way that

Hollywood talks about the commodities, which are your films and the product

and the content you're filling theirs.

They give you these very, , I've been to American film market twice.

Not ever mostly.

Out of sick fascination, because what is great about this is that it

seems like you guys kind of come to the realization that most independent

filmmakers come to after you have talked to a lot of people, that film market is

like, this is not where we want to be.

What makers that I know before I went, they give you a free pass to it.

If you have your film in AFI Fest.

So we just, a lot of filmmakers just kind of go almost as a goof

because it is so, so not our world.

At least the world that I'm in.

We see it as a meat market where it's like, you need it.

You need the things that tell you, you have to have a name actor.

You have to have a decent budget.

Pump up the budget.

, you have to find the trends.

What are people looking for?

Stay away from drama, find.

And it, and it's like to me as an independent filmmaker, that is some of

the worst advice you could possibly get.

However, if you are somebody who really just, I want to build a career

now and I want to be a director, I don't really have anything to say.

I just want director.

So how do I break?

I think they have pretty solid advice for the industry, but as somebody

who is really trying to make a name for themselves and do things that

they want to do, you guys heard all of the, all of the poisons firsthand

from, at the American film market.

So let's hear a little bit about demystified, how this came together,

, your experiences shooting it and where you're at with the release of the series.

Yeah.

So I'm sort of the.

You know, the I'm making the, you know, I'm doing the editing for those

and, , and sort of the voice of it Justin Charles had done most of the

actual recording and they're usually the ones having the, the meetings with,

folks that show up in those things.

Yeah, the, , the idea behind the series is as the name implies, I guess, is,

we're trying to figure out how this stuff works and, and it's often very

frustrating getting any kind of actionable advice or useful information on how

things like, , you know, financing or a distribution or any of that stuff works.

And so we're like, why don't we just record what we're doing as we're

doing it, watch us fumble through it.

And, , and then tell people what we see, you know, see and hear.

And yeah, you're, the AFM was, , you know, we, we went into it somewhat

with that kind of trepidation that you.

described, , because it does have, you know, it has a bit of a reputation

and, , we, and we saw that firsthand.

And I think in one of the episodes, I kind of, , we, we talk a little bit

about how it kind of almost, , it's just depressing, almost being in there, like

the, the kind of schlocky stuff that's very formulaic and clearly trying to take

advantage of trends that goes on there.

So, what I was hoping to do and what hopefully comes through, and we really,

we really debated the tone of this and how, you know, where we, where we stood

on a lot of this, but what I'm hoping comes through in those first episodes

about it is that there are useful pieces of information that you can, that

filmmakers of various kinds, , can take.

And, for instance, some people.

, the film they want to make, even if it's, it's the, you know, the, it

is in its purest artistic form might actually just happen to also be really,

you know, something that could very well, , worked very well in that, that

kind of, , you know, sort of checklist style, , distribution atmosphere.

And that's great to know, you know, or even just my, the, one of the biggest

things I wanted to know was is it even feasible to make money back on a movie?

Like, and that's how that's how little I felt, how, , , Not confident.

I felt going into that about any of the information I'd ever heard, you know, you

hear sort of rules of thumb and stuff.

So we were trying to just kind of break in.

I'll let people watch it to get the specifics from there, but, we were

just trying to get a, get a sense for what the market really looks like.

And, and this is of course, just one market.

We actually were going to, , show can as well, but a COVID kinda, COVID

kind of put a nix to that, but, , yeah, the, that, that, that, that tension

is certainly there was certainly felt.

And we, we kinda talked a lot about how we, how we wanted to present

to, what we wanted to say about that.

And I hope that my.

My kind of the summary that goes on, I think at the end of episode two, when

we kind of wrap up the AFM stuff, sort of gives the full picture, I guess,

of my feelings on, how one should take in that information and how big of a

grain of salt that should be taken with.

yeah, I think the show is endlessly fascinating, especially, I mean, if

you're like a, an independent filmmaker I think is required viewing, like at

this point, because film schools do not cover like the business of what

happens after you make your film.

And this is, this is not just, , you guys going there and asking questions.

You were actively looking for distribution for souvenirs.

So there are stakes in this and there's, you're learning.

And when the audience is learning along with it, and I think that it's, you're

never biased towards it, but you do let us know how you feel and what your

intentions are as filmmakers coming into the market and leaving the market.

And I think it, I think from my experience, you guys really

did a great job of covering.

What is this market?

Why you would go there and why you would leave completely heartbroken as well.

If you go in with the wrong intentions, I think in your exact

situation, you go there kind of blind.

You have a film, you're looking for distribution.

I got to tell you the reason I kept watching after episode one, I was like,

oh no, this is going to end badly.

I have to make a good TV.

I was like, well, this isn't going to have the ending after they talk

to everybody and we're not going to spoil the rest of the season.

So we're not going to talk about where souvenirs is right now with

distribution, but there are some successes that you are finding through.

I mean, you guys know, I've only seen through episode four.

But I think it's great to just see the journey of souvenirs through this, this

show and weighing all the pros and cons.

And I've gone through all of those exact dilemmas, have the conversations with the

lawyers and just asking other filmmakers.

And it's just, it's it is the experience of looking for distribution.

Yeah, it's funny.

After the first one came out, the, , the managing director of ASM, , proliferated

us, friended us retweeted loved it.

And you haven't seen the radio silence after the second one?

Well, I don't think that, I don't think that you guys are

saying anything necessarily.

Like I said, there's no bias there.

You're, you're just putting it out exactly what they do.

And this is.

What it's like it is, it is.

And you talk about, I think, , these, these companies putting out a

battle war galactorrhea battle star wars is what it's called.

Here we go.

And I, to me, that's why I, you know, I love going just kind of fascination,

see what trauma is doing and, and, , the asylum, it's just like, they're all there.

And you can kind of just go and talk to people.

But I think going in with the realistic expectations that you're going to

walk out with a deal and make a bunch of money is, is kind of shattering.

Yeah.

Yeah.

We do have questions that are coming in.

So if you got them, we're only going to be talking for another 10 minutes of viewers.

If now is the time to ask them flows with questions.

So, , we do have a question about your particular grand valley experiences and

how does graduating from grand valley play into your filmmaking experience?

Jake and Charles, what do you got for us?

Well, , I, I really value having gone to grand valley.

I it's it's, I, I think it's a, it's almost a cliche of the, of, , the

film, you know, kind of being an, , , an aspiring filmmaker, deciding

whether to go to college or not.

You'll, you'll hear conflicting information about that.

Often people say, don't go to film school, you know, go to business

school or something and, you know, teach yourself on the side.

And then other people who are defenders of that, , that, that school path or

whatever, and even into grad school or something, and like, with a lot of

things, I think that there's, wisdom in both of those, those things.

I think what I really value from grand valley, was the, you have

access, you know, Any good film school should have access to, , resources,

information at chance to, , just to force you to do some, do some things.

And, I think that the, , it's kind kinda touches back on the decision

whether or not to move out to LA I think the, the location and the, , the

ability to just kind of, , , experiment and, and try something out and not

go into hopeless debt while doing it.

And, shoot in a, in a place, , that, , , you know, isn't covered

in red tape and all that stuff.

I really valued that.

and especially in particular, I would say the, summer film, which is where

I actually met Charles, , that I worked on the summer film project.

The grand valley does, that was, , A major experience that I've carried.

I've learned a lot of lessons, some in, , what to do in some, in

what not to do coming out of that.

And so I guess my, , my grandpa experience, I guess the, the

question I want to make sure I touch on the question exactly.

But, I think that it, , it informs me somewhat in my, kind of sense that I

want to work outside of the, sort of LA system, I guess, but also with an eye

toward, , with, , with an aim at doing something, doing work that, could survive

there and be of that caliber and not just be, , again, Regionally, interesting

and never go anywhere outside of that.

And so I think that, , it's sort of a, I felt like it was sort of a good, a sweet

spot between not going to film school and, , going to like a USC or something.

, I'll follow that up with, , you know, I've had the good fortune of working

with, you know, you, Jake, , since we met at grand valley, we've worked

together since then, as well as, , a number of other people, Melissa bay.

Alessandra Lamento Brian Kung and Barker.

Yeah.

That was like our core team out of, out of college.

And, , I've had the privilege to be able to work with each of you, , since then.

And, , so I'd say one of the biggest benefits of the grand valley program at

the very least was making, , lifelong filmmaking friends and partners.

, and then, , I think the, the summer film project is such a unique experience,

, because it is really what, like, it was a great, you know, jump in the

deep end of what, how like a set, how serious the second B you know, and how

good a product can come out of that.

So I had to learn how to be an art director.

Ever doing anything close to art, directing, you know, managing people when

everything just thrown right in, you know?

So that was a great experience for sure.

American film markets rubbing off on you, Charles.

I heard you call it, move your product.

So be careful that that's my role.

That's the character I'm playing in the series as I'm the business oriented one.

So don't worry I'm into the arts, but it's, it's a character I'm

playing and I'm playing that method.

I had a scary moment there.

The custodian knocked on my door and I answered it without a mask.

So racing was the guy that you just saw on camera, but I got censored.

So maybe that was okay.

So, so this is this what we're doing right now is basically, I'll just say it's kind

of a way for grand valley to get their name out and talk about the program.

And you guys did a great job promoting it, saying great things.

Where did grand valley leave you hanging?

What are the things that you wish now looking back that the film

program would have told you about and informed you about a little.

Better.

I would say, I think when I, , got my hands on my first, , I'm blanking on

the name of it now, it's it was the European version of the rebel TQI,

but a DSLR camera, it, that kind of, those sort of hit, , the last couple of

years that I was in, in, , in college.

And it, it was like this switch flipped where all this stuff that had been theory,

basically up to this point, , suddenly you could actually get an image that

actually look good instead of off of like, , , some, you know, a Handycam, you know, like

that's the same as what your dad used to record home videos or whatever it was.

I was really halfway through college.

I was really struggling with that.

And just having that hands-on experience taught me a lot or made a lot of it.

Click in a way that it hadn't prior to that.

And I think the reason for that is, and I don't, I doubt this is a issue of grand

valley specifically, but, I think the reason for that is that the industry

and the technology in the industry, it changes so much and it's a, it's an art

form that is heavily reliant on it or it's technology, or it's paired with

that very heavily in some ways more so than a lot of other, our forms.

And it's changing all the time.

And I think that what often happens is people who came up in a certain era and

then are now teaching or spreading their wisdom to the next, the next cohort

or whatever next generation are often talking from the perspective of what

was, what was pertinent and what the, the wisdom was at the time they came up.

And as a result, I think a lot of the stuff that we were learning the

theory was really sound or the, the practices were sound, but it was often

based on the assumption, essentially that we were going to be shooting on.

Super eight or like 16, a 60 millimeter film with film

cameras or something like that.

And it wasn't really, a lot of, it was not very practically applicable

to the breed with resources we actually had available to us.

Yeah.

And that, and I only say that, , to, to suggest that like a lot of it, I guess

in some ways I felt like I could have learned a lot of it faster and gotten

to where I felt I did get to, sooner if I just knew exactly what it was.

I didn't know.

It needed to know if that makes sense.

It, there was, there was a certain amount of like, I can tell that

this image from a movie I like looks great and I can tell that my attempt

at mimicking, it looks terrible and there's a whole bunch of there's,

there's a million reasons why that is.

And it's hard for me to even articulate what they are to even ask the

questions I need to ask and figure out what I need to learn to get there.

And so I think some of it, I guess, is just that maybe being.

, , always on top of, of trying to understand, like, what is, the current wisdom that

needs to be imparted, I guess maybe that would be my critique, Charles.

We only got a couple more minutes.

I'll just say I'm not a fair person to ask that too.

I got a PR by proxy, , education, because I was actually a theater major,

that's acting in everybody's films.

And so I got to pick and choose which, , people I wanted to work with the, you

know, and, and learn directly from them.

So like actually Jake is one of the big inspirations behind my education

with, , at least in the visual element and some of the storytelling elements.

So I got a different lens in the education, so I can't really.

What I miss now, let me, let me throw one more thing in real quick to, , , that I

liked about grand valley also is that I think a lot of film programs and other

places kind of stream can, , focus on making you into a director, let's

say like S , that specialization.

And I really valued the kind of shotgun approach of spread approach

of, , grand valley, where I was, it never even occurred to me to

not just try to learn editing and lighting and, , some photography and

special effects and all that stuff that was just always on the menu.

And so, even though it made me, I think, , kind of a, still a Jack of all trades

or whatever toward the end of it and not really a master of anything yet.

I think it set me up for, to be a much more powerful director, especially

for this environment where you really need to be able to do a lot of stuff

on your own if you want to succeed.

So I appreciate that about it too.

Yeah.

I think, , Robert Rodriguez said to be successful, to be

creative and technically savvy.

And I think that that is true.

You need to be able to do every single you need to be at a micro budget level.

Some days the sound guy's just gonna bail.

Cause he's got to work and you have to be able to run sound or be on

camera or, and now more than ever.

So I think that is crucial.

And I would add, which is, which is so fascinating to me, which I think

is so important for demystified is that I always tell the students now

it's not just creative and technical, but it's also, you need to know the

business side of it because DSLR cameras did come up right around 2011.

And that is how I was able to become a filmmaker to make films that looked.

But that means.

Th the pool of filmmakers, right.

You know, by tenfold increase, which it means the submissions to some

festivals and creed by tenfold.

So the competition, if you want to use that word is so incredibly intense that

the only, I think making a good film is one step, but being able to find

where that goes to give it the right festival, the right distribution is

equally as important as the script and the, and the production at this point.

And I think that.

You know, shows like demystified or even shows like the chair

or, , Robert Rodriguez has a show, a rebel without a crew.

I think these are, these are what filmmakers today need to start watching

and reading to be up on how to do everything yourself and how to get

past the other people who are trying to submit to south by Southwest

or Sundance or things like that.

Like, how do you, how do you rise above?

And that's making the right decisions, talking to lawyers and all these

awful businessy producery type things.

I think directors need to know that stuff just as much as producers, because you

kind of have to just produce your own work when you're starting off, especially

when you're making your first feature.

That's from my parents.

And I think it's going more in that direction, honestly, like just.

More than ever.

That's true.

Before we go, I would like to say that, , any grand valley alumni or students, , can

submit to studio Fest for free with the there's a code that we're going to put up.

, it's a GV alumni.

If they use that on film, freeway.com/studio Fest or studio

fest.com/submit, , they can submit their work to us and get a free.

, the question you're going to get now is, Hey, I went to grand valley.

Can I get special treatment?

Will you give me better?

No special treatment.

Good.

Yeah.

Yup.

All the time.

What festivals to submit to.

And I, I think you have to be realistic about what you made.

I think studio Fest just absolutely makes sense.

If you feel strongly, that you have is, and this is, you said

a short film or a feature length script they could submit, correct?

Yup.

That's right.

And, , yeah, if you want to do both, don't be afraid to submit to us, just put in

the notes that you're interested in both.

, because we're starting to expand into, you know, start up the tour aspect.

Yeah.

So somebody who can do both.

Oh, love it.

Okay guys.

So check out demystified on YouTube and make sure you go to submit your stuff on

studio fester, at least just check out the website, just to see what they're

up to and, and, and how it all works.

, Charles and Jake, thanks for hanging out with us for an hour and.

Yeah, I think you draw.

Yeah.

Thanks a lot.

Appreciate it.

A lot of fun.

Okay.

So, all right.

We'll talk to everybody in the, the matrix later on.

So you guys had.

Thank you for joining us for this episode of Alumni Live the Podcast.

Subscribe to our podcast to hear more from our alumni across the industry.

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Thank you for listening.