Randy Strobl: Welcome to Alumni Live The Podcast.

These are conversations with Grand Valley State University Film and Video

graduates about the industry, the Film & Video major, and alumni profiles.

Katie Dehn: Hi, and welcome to another Alumni Live.

Today, we are talking with some alumni that are from LA and about

the trials and tribulations of working, living, and moving to LA.

So they're going to join me here and we're going to go with A.J.

Bedard first.

How long have you been in LA and what are you up to?

A.J. Bedard: I've been in LA for just over three years now.

Got out here in March of 2017, and I'm currently a movie

trailer editor at Project X/AV.

Katie Dehn: Awesome.

And Talon, what about you?

How long have you been there?

What are you up to?

Talon Rudel: So I moved to LA two and a half years ago about, and I

started off as a development intern.

And then now I am a coordinator at FX Networks marketing.

Katie Dehn: That's awesome.

And I actually forgot to introduce myself.

I'm Katie Troupe.

I actually am not in LA.

I am working from home for 52 Watt Studios in Jenison, Michigan right now.

And I am lucky to be close to Grand Valley, and on the

Film & Video Alumni Chapter.

I'm on the board there for the last couple of years.

So I'm hosting today and let's kick it off to Jamie.

How long have you been in LA and what is your current job situation?

Jamie Bartkowicz: So I've been in LA for about five and a half years.

And, up until recently, I was working at universal studios, Hollywood.

Production Design for the theme park.

But due to COVID things have changed slightly.

Katie Dehn: So you're currently laid off.

Jamie Bartkowicz: Yes.

Katie Dehn: I think each of us have been there for a certain amount of time.

Kelly, how are you doing

Kelly Loughlin: I'm doing great.

We actually have a creative production call this morning with some of our company

heads, so I was helping get that set up.

That's part of my job duties here.

But we are in the full swing of things even in the midst of Covid.

Katie Dehn: Awesome.

And how long have you been in LA and what are you up to?

Kelly Loughlin: I moved to LA in March of 2019, so last year, and I

am currently an office production assistant at an unscripted TV company,

which is a better way to say reality.

Katie Dehn: And last but not least Scott Sheppard, who was

actually one of my classmates.

How long have you been in LA and what are you up to?

Scott Sheppard: I've been in LA for 11 years, and I currently work as

a freelance editor and documentary filmmaker, director producer.

Katie Dehn: Awesome.

So, one of the great things about Alumni Live is that we can take live questions.

So first I wanted to talk to you guys about your choice to move to LA and

the length of time in between when you graduated versus when you moved.

Some of you, it was you moved before you graduated.

Others, it was just a few days or years.

So A.J., you moved before you graduated from Grand Valley.

What was that experience like?

A.J. Bedard: It was very interesting actually because I had talked

to Kim Roberts, my advisor.

She was talking to me about the possibilities of moving out to

LA, and I was always thinking that if the opportunity presented

itself, I would make the jump.

So instead of taking extra classes, like the sound design class, or like higher

film classes, I decided to drop all of the classes that I had in the next semester.

I dropped everything except for the one class that I had left, which was an

independent study, so that if I moved to LA, I could finish it up there.

The opportunity presented itself with a phone call at two in the morning from

another alumni, Louis Stone, who said he was looking for a roommate and I

jumped at the opportunity and I moved out and I finished my last class in LA.

Katie Dehn: Awesome.

So you moved because you had the opportunity and you seized that chance?

A.J. Bedard: Correct.

An opportunity presented itself.

Katie Dehn: That's awesome.

Kelly, you've actually spent a few years back home in Indiana

working before you moved out.

And how has that worked out for you?

Kelly Loughlin: You know, I think that was actually the best

thing to help me get on track.

I was working in a typical, office back in Indiana, so I was able to get

a lot of skills that actually helped me transfer over to an office production

position, because I was already familiar with office protocols, how to use,

you know, properly write an email, use Google drive and all those things that

were really helpful for production.

I think a lot of my education at Grand Valley focused on, you know, set skills

and lighting and all those practical things for onset, but if we want to

work in production or development or something behind the scenes, it's

really helpful to know what it's like to work in an office environment.

And I was able to bring a sizable savings out here, which really helped me out.

It let me make options out of what was best for me instead of making

decisions on, oh, I got to live somewhere immediately or I'm gonna live in my

car, you know, so I, I'm very thankful for the time I spent at home with my

family saving up so I could really make the LA move a way that I wanted to.

Katie Dehn: Nice.

And so we have our first question.

Would you recommend moving to LA immediately or waiting a few years.

Considering COVID, I think we've all kind of talked about this, but if

anyone wants to take that question.

During the current situation with Coronavirus it's best to wait.

You're not missing anything here.

Nothing's happening.

People who still have their jobs have their jobs, but

everything's kind of at a halt.

And I know there might be rumors that you might hear that like, oh,

film production's starting back up, rents dropping, things like that,

but it's still not great out here.

Even more than half our industry is out of work right now, and so it's just better

to wait and save up your money I think.

You're not missing out anything when you come here.

I know some people are just very eager to move out to Los Angeles right now,

but this is kind of like your best situation to stay home and save up money

and just wait it out a little bit more.

Talon Rudel: Yeah.

Just think about all the people that are like laid off right now, and how

many of those people are going to be the first pick to get those jobs back.

And you're going to be fighting against all these people that have 5, 10, 15

years of experience under their belt already as a person that's just moved to

the city, so you're almost at more of a disadvantage, but if you stay home, get

work there or make a big savings, then when all this is over, then you're going

to be at the best situation you can be in

Katie Dehn: Scott, do you have anything to add to that?

Scott Sheppard: Yeah.

I would just totally agree with that.

I mean, there's so many people that are laid off right now, when people do start

hiring again, a lot of those people laid off, they're going to be applying for

jobs that they are way overqualified for.

So not only are you competing against those people, but they're going to

take jobs that are, that they wouldn't typically take just to get back in

the workforce 'cause that's kind of how dire things are right now.

People are really desperate for work and I'm seeing a lot of people flee LA.

A lot of people are leaving LA.

Katie Dehn: And that's why some of the apartments you've said were

showing up as not as expensive because there's less demand.

But also what can students do right now, who, okay, they're not going

to move to LA just yet; how can they network and make connections?

Do you guys have any recommendations for networking remotely to make

those connections ahead of time?

Kelly Loughlin: Yeah, I would say, one big thing that's helped me out here

in my move to LA period, in terms of housing and jobs is Facebook groups.

I've been added to a couple of Facebook groups specifically for women, for

sexual minorities, for people working in reality TV, and I'm just seeing

links every single day to who knows a PA in this area or who knows someone

who can do this and that, and then everyone tags each other in the comments.

And I, I've seen so many names that then I've later met them like, oh, we've

accidentally been talking for several months and it's nice to finally meet you.

And the great thing about being on those Facebook groups is like,

you can ask the questions, you can meet these people and you can just

stay at home and you can learn so many things just from reading that.

And I also found housing that way too.

So honestly, Facebook, beyond GV alum, just Facebook groups in general.

Katie Dehn: That's a great tip.

Do you guys have any other ones?

A.J. Bedard: I mean, when I was in college, I was talking to different

professors about, editors who had graduated beforehand, people who

are out in LA already, anybody who I could talk to about how to learn the

ropes of moving to LA and like what opportunities there are and how to

present yourself as a new person in LA and a freshly graduated college student.

I've met a lot of good people: Michael Johnson, Brad Stencil, JiL Szewski, like

all those people just from getting a name from Suzanne Zack or Kim Roberts.

Your advisors and your professors know a lot of people who've moved out here

as exampled by this, like, there are people out here who are willing to help

you and teach you what you need to know.

So just talking to people who know connections, like your

professors, that helps a lot too.

Katie Dehn: For sure.

It's the Laker for a lifetime kind of thing.

Right.

So Scott, how have you networked through your years out in LA?

Scott Sheppard: Well, when I first got here, I moved with a couple of Grand

Valley alum actually, and then started hanging out with a lot of Grand Valley

alum, pretty much right off the bat, and that's how I got a lot of my early jobs.

People I'm still friends with that have really helped my career in a lot of ways.

So it was really that Grand Valley alumni at the beginning, was helpful

because I didn't have the resume to get hired as a set PA on a TV show

right off the bat, but I knew people that were key set PA's on TV shows.

So if they needed an extra five people to go watch a street corner or something,

they'd hire you for a day, and then you could say you worked on this show.

You know, and things kind of moved from there.

It was a lot of in-person networking with Grand Valley people.

And then I would also agree with Facebook as well.

I work in nonfiction documentary.

I'm in a couple of Facebook groups where people are looking to find PA's,

DP's, camera assistants all around the country for various shoots when something

happens in the news, somebody is doing a documentary in some random city.

So people are looking for people around the country sometimes.

Katie Dehn: Awesome.

Well, it looks like we have another question coming up, do

you have any experience with what the Burbank area is like?

A.J. Bedard: I live and work in Burbank.

Burbank is essentially the most Midwestern part of Los Angeles.

There are people walking their dogs at 11:00 PM at night.

It's a lot of just great community.

There's not a lot of things that happen in Burbank.

It's pretty quiet, but as somebody who has kind of traveled around LA and really

experienced all the different locations, being able to go to the crazy parts or go

to the nightlife places like Hollywood is so much easier than living there because

I know people who live in Hollywood who are like, oh yeah, then this happened

outside my front door, this that's that.

Burbank, it gets hot here 'cause it's in the valley.

It's been a hundred for the past week and a half or so.

But Burbank is, by far one of the best places in my opinion to live.

It's maybe a little bit pricier, but if you can find the right place, you

can definitely get a deal on things.

Yeah.

Katie Dehn: Well, then that launches us into where to live in LA.

So, as someone in Grand Rapids, I would just search LA and like cheap.

That clearly could lead to some poor decisions.

What do you, what do you guys recommend?

I know you've mentioned the Valley and Burbank, and not where

Taylor lives, is what I've heard.

Multiple: Laughing.

Talon Rudel: Yeah.

So first off, LA is a lot bigger than you expect.

It's 30 miles a zone.

And like technically LA goes all the way down to the county,

or the city technically, all the way down to Long Beach.

And so if you searched LA on like Zillow or something else, you'll find places

that are cheap, but they're actually like in Long Beach and you're going

to be spending two hours commuting, three hours commuting every day.

You're going to want to try to find someplace central or just try

to find someplace in the Valley, that's cheaper, but not too far in

the Valley, because then traffic.

Traffic is the king of this city.

Katie Dehn: So, Talon, where do you live?

Talon Rudel: So I live near the USC campus in South Central LA.

So South Central, which is like north of Compton, so it's not like the

best area, but it's way cheaper than any place else that I've ever seen.

I paid less than most people I know.

Katie Dehn: This, tell me where you guys live.

So A.J., you said Burbank?

A.J. Bedard: Yes.

I will say, when I moved out here, I lived in North Hollywood it's a

little bit cheaper, but it's also like right next to Burbank, so it still

has like a good kind of vibe to it.

But yeah, now I'm in Burbank.

Katie Dehn: Okay.

And which one do you like better, Burbank or North Hollywood?

A.J. Bedard: Burbank, I would say.

Katie Dehn: And Kelly, where are you living?

Where have you lived since you've been there?

Kelly Loughlin: So first I lived with Jamie for two weeks.

Then I found housing through a Facebook group.

I live here in Sherman Oaks with a roommate who has also been working in

the industry as a freelance set dresser.

So she was able to help me get my first gigs and everything like that.

And now I work about a 10- minute commute down the street at my office

building on Ventura and Sherman Oaks.

And so I've had small little world here and I love the

Valley and love Sherman Oaks.

I think it's the best start for someone from Michigan is to just be in the Valley

and get used to living in a big city.

Because even if you're from Detroit, it's not similar.

Katie Dehn: And Jamie, how about you?

Where have you lived?

Jamie Bartkowicz: I've actually lived in the same apartment for

the past five and a half years.

So I live in North Hollywood.

I moved out here with a fellow college friend, Michael Dope.

We've been roommates for five and a half years.

So we live in North Hollywood, but we live in the arts district of North Hollywood,

which I'm basically on the corner of where Toluca Lake, Burbank, and Hollywood meets.

So it's very trendy now.

It never used to be.

It was not like this when we moved in.

Katie Dehn: And Scott, how about you?

Scott Sheppard: Yeah, I lived in Burbank for a year.

Burbank's fine.

It's not all that great.

It's fine.

I lived in Los Filez for like six, seven years.

And then I basically got priced out of the neighborhood cause

I've seen rent pretty much double.

Everybody in my building got evicted, they flipped it and

then they about doubled the rent.

The thing is, the neighborhoods are constantly changing because of that.

And you're seeing a lot of luxury apartments go up everywhere, which

totally changes each neighborhood.

Right now, I live in Glendale, but it's always changing.

And I think for me, the thing I learned was just getting here, finding a

neighborhood, finding a decent apartment, and then you spend a year getting a lay

of the land and figuring out where you are going to end up actually working.

And where you end up working is going to dictate where you should live.

Because I see a lot of job opportunities as a freelancer on the west side, and I

do not take those because I don't want to spend three hours a day in like.

But if there was a job that I really love that was over there, then I would

move across the city potentially.

Katie Dehn: That's a really good point to making sure you're doing what you love

if you gotta spend that time on the road.

Jamie Bartkowicz: And so the only reason I've even stayed in the same apartment

is because I've worked at universal my whole time, which is down the street.

So, I mean, if I had a job somewhere else, I probably would have moved.

I just kind of lucked out.

Katie Dehn: It looks like we have another question from Rachel.

What kind of experience or skills are internship employers looking for

in the LA film scene, specifically the fiction or animation scene, if

anyone has experience with that?

Scott Sheppard: For internships, when I moved here, I did an internship on the

Paramount lot for a producer and basically worked as like an office assistant.

It was a development job, basically.

I answered phones.

I read scripts.

I wrote coverage, got lunch, got coffee.

I think there was a lot of that.

A lot of entry-level things.

If you're looking at fiction specifically, script coverage,

you read a lot of scripts.

You realize scripts are terrible.

Nobody knows how to write.

And if you want to write, you'll learn how to be a better writer.

So that's useful.

Talon Rudel: Yeah.

I had a very similar experience.

I got an internship working for a GVSU alum.

That's why I moved out here initially was because I had the opportunity to

apply for an internship and got it.

And then I just moved like two weeks after I graduated basically, was planning

on living in my car, but then A.J.

actually let me stay on his couch for two weeks, found the cheapest apartment I

could find and then stayed there, did the internship but the skills that you need,

it's coverage, it's being a hard worker.

Like some people will like to see on your resume that you worked at

Starbucks and worked 12 hour shifts, or some people won't like that.

It really depends on the person.

It's just build up your skills in every way that you can.

It just depends on the person.

It's like, it's a hard question to answer.

Just keep doing work and then keep applying.

Katie Dehn: I can tell you, my brother does a lot of hiring.

I mean, he's in physical therapy, totally different, but he said one of

his interview questions is have you ever worked in a restaurant because

working in a restaurant, you have to really give it your all for long hours.

So I think that's interesting, like the Starbucks talk.

You just have to prove yourself no matter what industry you're in, that you're

a hard worker and you're reliable and that you do what you say you're going to

do, you be where you're supposed to be.

It's not, you know, rocket science.

It's just being, you know, those Midwestern, that work ethic.

It's really useful.

What advice would you give to someone trying to be a

screenwriter slash director?

Move to LA, move to New York, et cetera?

Scott, I think you might be a good one to answer this.

Scott Sheppard: I would recommend New York or LA if you're

looking to be a screenwriter.

I mean, you'll hear people say that you can write anywhere in the country,

but I think you could be a screenwriter anywhere in the country if you lived

in LA or New York for 10 years and really made a name for yourself and had

an agent and got a good track record.

Then you can kind of leave LA and live somewhere else if you want.

You really need to be here and be able to network with people and take meetings.

I mean, there's a lot of in-person meetings for directors and writers

and you just need to be around people.

So I would advise being in New York or LA if you want to direct.

But the, you know, the question of like, how do you get to that point?

There's a million ways to do it.

You know, you can start as a PA, you can start in development,

you can start in reality.

I shifted from wanting to be a screenwriter director of narrative films

into documentary and post-production.

I didn't plan that, I didn't expect it, but I found that I like it a lot more.

So there's a million paths.

Katie Dehn: Well, and Talon and Kelly, you both want to be

showrunners and writers as well.

So what steps have you guys been taking to get to that?

Talon Rudel: What Scott just said really hits the point of

why, the why of moving to LA.

Really the work that you're going to be getting the first year or two, it's

the fact that there's all these other people that are trying to do the same

thing as you, and you're going to be meeting them, and you're going to be

going to events where you meet them.

You're going to be going to events where you're going to be learning

things and doing things and constantly building those skills that will

eventually get you that meeting that will eventually get you in the room

that you can have those discussions.

It's not about, oh, I'm gonna move to LA and get a job right away.

Or that PA job is going to lead me.

It's all the other things that you're doing outside of your work.

You gotta be like hustling, constantly working, constantly writing constantly.

And that is sort of the, why you, if you want to choose to move to LA and going

to more specifically to the question you just asked, which is, what am I doing,

I'm consistently right now just writing, taking this time that I have at work at

home and using all the time to write.

And I'm still trying to reach out to people and get advice and trying to find

ways to navigate those jobs and applying for those writer's assistant jobs.

Even if I might not be qualified for them.

Just keep on doing it over and over until one day someone gives me a chance.

Kelly Loughlin: For me personally, I kind of have a dual thing going

where I have my original track, where I do want to be a show runner, or

work in development for fiction, but obviously I'm at a reality TV company.

So what I've been doing during this time is I've been like talking to

our development team who comes in, I've been assisting them a little

bit, helping them find props or helping them find contacts for shows

that are currently in development.

And so I kind of have like a dual mind of thinking, okay, I want to continue a

little bit with my existing plan, and then what can I also advance in this career,

in this position where I'm at right now.

So like Scott was saying, like he ended up in a totally different thing, and

of course, I think we all come out here with a specific job, a specific position

in mind of what we want to do someday.

But I also know, hey, if I don't end up there, I already feel like there's

something here I'm really enjoying and let's see where that track goes

and maybe they'll meet up someday.

Maybe they won't.

But I did know that thanks to some advice from alumni that I got, 'cause I moved

out here a couple days before the 2019 LA alumni event, and Scott told me, and

Josh told me office production assistant is a position you want to look at for

the kind of track that you're going in.

And so when I found one, I was like, I'm going to learn everything

broadly related so I can take it going forward in my career.

And here I am.

Randy Strobl: This episode is brought to you by the Dirk Koning

Memorial Film and Video Scholarship.

Here's Gretchen Vinnedge remembering Dirk Koning.

For more information, and to donate to the scholarship, visit

the link in the description.

Now, back to the show

Katie Dehn: So I want to kind of touch back to the housing thing

and this idea of cost of living.

So we have a question, how much are apartments and how do you afford them?

Because, I mean, I have a two bedroom in Grand Rapids.

The price I'm assuming is a little bit less than out there.

Jamie Bartkowicz: I mean, we're in a weird situation right now.

Like I said, with the pandemic that, there are reports of some

rent dropping in areas, but it's not like my landlord's dropping my rent.

Like my rent set.

He's not going to change my rent.

It's like the new luxury apartments that are going for a little cheaper.

But rent in the past five years has skyrocketed in LA.

It is ever-changing and it just completely goes up and up.

And like Scott said, it also depends on the area you're in.

One area can be super affordable, not a great area, and then in a couple years

now it's like the trendiest place to live.

So it changes a lot.

I'll give real numbers, I'm not ashamed.

When I first moved out here, we have a two bedroom, two bath apartment

in North Hollywood, our rent was 1500 for the two bedroom, two bath.

It is not 1500 anymore.

It has gone up significantly over the years.

We now pay 2100, so that's for a two bedroom, two bath, place in our area.

Now I have central AC.

I have two parking spots next to each other.

I have tons of street parking.

I live next to a taco stand.

Like I have a lot of great things that are reasons why mine is worth it.

We have like two balconies.

There are reasons why I'm okay paying that price.

Also, I just don't feel like moving.

But you know, it really depends on your amenities.

There are a lot of places in LA that don't come with refrigerators,

so you have to buy a fridge.

Or they don't have AC.

You have like one box AC or none at all.

Or you have no parking and your street is also, has no parking.

So it really varies.

It really depends on where you live and what you're looking for, and

what's really important to you.

Like for me, me and my roommate were like, I want two bathroom because

we're a boy and a girl and I'm not sharing a bathroom with him.

So that was really important to us.

We could have found cheaper apartments with one bathroom or smaller ones

or ones that had street parking, but we kind of had our list of

demands that we were trying to meet.

And obviously we settled for what we could get at the time, but it really

depends on the area you're living in.

Katie Dehn: So talking about different areas, Talon, if you don't mind sharing.

Talon Rudel: My rent has yet to go up since I moved here,

which I'm so thankful for.

I pay 1700, is the total for two bedroom, one bathroom.

And I live in South Central and that's the cheapest that I've seen it when

I first moved here, and also still now, when I like look at apartments.

And I have AC and I have two parking spots, which is like the only things

you ever need, but it didn't come with a fridge and all those things.

But the way I was able to afford it is I didn't have as much savings as I

thought I needed, I realized I needed because I was living in this apartment

before I had a job for five months, blew through my savings paying rent, and so

I ended up having someone sleep on the couch and live on the couch for like

six months, seven months, maybe more.

And like it significantly lowered the rent so that they were paying like

$500 a month just to live on a couch, which for them is like a great deal.

But then it made my rent cheaper.

And that's how you afford it is you find ways to like make it affordable.

Katie Dehn: You all, I'm assuming, all have roommates, is that correct?

Kelly Loughlin: Yeah, so I found my roommate, like I

said, through a Facebook group.

I started my search on a Friday and I found her on Sunday.

And what's great about these Facebook groups is it's people

looking for roommates, cause they already have existing leases.

They just want someone to fill a room and they say how much it's

going for, they list the amenities, you go over, you visit them.

It's just the person itself.

And, you guys are gonna hate me, but my rent is 850 because I live

in a rent controlled apartment.

And it's a master bedroom with a half bath.

Yeah.

I love it.

I super lucked out, plus I also found my roommate that way, who works in

the industry and she was able to get me my first job and everything.

But there is only street parking, and I had a pine cone fall on my

car and break my windshield the other day, so it's not the best.

You can tell that this apartment has not been renovated since the sixties,

when it was built, and that shows a lot.

I mean, it's in a good neighborhood and I can live with old carpeting

if it means my rent is 850.

So that was worth it to me.

Scott Sheppard: Yeah.

When I moved here, I lived in a two bedroom, two bath in Burbank

with two Grand Valley alum.

So it's three people with two bedrooms.

One guy lived in the living room.

It was 1650 a month.

I had a friend live in that same complex, like six, seven years later.

And she was paying like $600 more a month, something like that.

I moved 10 years ago.

I moved to Los Filez and I got a studio apartment for $750.

Now that apartment is probably $1,750 now.

I can about guarantee you.

So that's kind of the question of where to live and how much it costs.

It's like I've seen the, the prices double.

I live in Glendale now.

I have a two bed, two and a half bath townhouse, and it's 2100 and

that's a really good price right now.

That's a really good price.

If I still lived in Los Filez for what I have, I would pay

2,500 to 3000 a month easily.

Jamie Bartkowicz: I think that's a really good point to bring

up also about apartments in LA.

When you have roommates, your apartment's cheaper.

Like a studio here, you'd be paying almost as much as if you were in

a two bedroom with someone else.

Like studios and one bedrooms are very expensive in LA because isn't

that the dream to live alone.

But it's in your best interest to get roommates.

A.J. Bedard: My situation, I was living in a place in North Hollywood

first, and if you're squeamish, like, there was a situation.

I guess, if we're going to be real on this, our downstairs neighbors

had roaches and they came up to us.

Uh, yeah.

What Louis and I did we found a place in Burbank, and what Jamie said, where it

was like, that you find something that's important to you, hers was two bathrooms.

Ours was two car parking.

We wanted that so desperately that we found places that were like

pretty good, but only had like one car park and then street parking.

We'd always go up and down the streets.

And we lucked out.

It was crazy because we found a place in Burbank, two bedrooms, two

bathrooms, central air, two car parking underneath the structure, full carpet.

We brought our refrigerator over from North Hollywood and we pay 1850 a month.

925 a person.

And it's been great to us.

And Scott, I see why you don't like Burbank because you started there.

I went from North Hollywood roaches to Burbank with no roaches, and I'm like,

okay, this is the highlight of luxury.

Kelly Loughlin: I killed a roach [inaudible] this morning at my place, so.

Scott Sheppard: There are roaches in North Hollywood.

I don't know why that is, but I'll say I lived in Glendale and my

whole building was tented for bugs at one point and that was terrible.

Katie Dehn: I remember seeing, Scott, on your Facebook, like the

evacuation of a bee colony from your balcony or something one year?

Scott Sheppard: Yeah.

I mean, look, you get what you pay for.

I have a good price, and we put up with a lot of crap over the years.

It's been kind of a nightmare.

Katie Dehn: But you have to save the bees.

Scott Sheppard: Those bees were not saved, unfortunately.

Katie Dehn: Oh they weren't, okay.

Kelly Loughlin: I think Jamie takes the cake on weirdest creature

living inside her apartment.

Jamie Bartkowicz: Bugs are very real in LA and I am a, I consider

myself a very clean person.

I hate bugs, so they are not allowed in my apartment no matter what, like

you won't see a spider in my apartment.

I don't deal with it.

But two years ago we got fleas, because our downstairs neighbor,

who we despised, had dogs.

I don't know, they didn't take care of them or something.

And they had fleas and they, ' cause my roommate has a balcony in his room,

somehow came up onto his balcony.

We don't have a pet.

There's no reason I should have fleas.

And I was the most livid tenant my managers probably ever seen, and so

they had to fumigate, not only us, but like other tenants got them also

because this one one person had fleas.

And I was just like, out of all the bugs I could get, or all the problems

that you can get in a apartment.

It was crazy that I'm like, fleas.

I don't own a pet.

I should not have to deal with this.

A.J. Bedard: Neighbors are pretty crazy out here.

Let's just say that.

Kelly Loughlin: Yeah.

A.J. Bedard: You meet some interesting people.

Katie Dehn: You're really selling the place, you know?

Jamie Bartkowicz: I know, move to LA!

A.J. Bedard: No, it's great.

Once you get past the roaches and the fleas and the no parking, it's great.

Katie Dehn: I didn't expect the conversation to go this way.

So this is fun.

Besides LA, are there other areas within Cali, California, that would be great for

finding video editing or videography jobs.

Scott Sheppard: It depends on what type of editing and what type of videography,

which is not the answer you want to hear, but I know a Grand Valley alum.

He's in Santa Barbara and he's doing videography and I think

it's for medical company.

So there's some in San Diego.

San Francisco, the Bay Area has got a lot of documentary work, actually.

I know a lot of editors start in San Francisco as well, and most

of them end up coming to LA.

So if you're going to look at anywhere in California, other than LA, I'd say jobs

in other cities, they're not necessarily going to feel entertainment related.

You know, it's like a corporate gig.

Katie Dehn: Has moving to LA been harder than you thought?

Kelly Loughlin: I'm going to say no, because I spent so long prepping

for this move that I was really ready to fight for everything.

Even though I had visited LA the year before and I visited with Jamie, I just

had in mind that a move to LA is going to be the hardest thing I ever do in

my life, or at least I've done so far.

And I was prepared for a nightmare of situations.

And then, like I said, I found housing within three days and then my

roommate was able to get me my first job, which then led to other jobs,

and then I found the current position I'm in on the same day that it was

posted on a job posting board for LA.

So I'm very lucky in that everything has kind of worked out for me and everything

that hasn't worked out for me was through, like I think Talon was saying

earlier about blowing through my savings.

That didn't help at all.

I was doing the thing where I wasn't working enough in freelance

to offset my housing costs.

So that kind of foiled me, but otherwise, I feel extremely lucky.

I'm in a very good position, all things considered.

So I was just prepared for the worst and that's why I feel

like everything worked out.

Katie Dehn: So Jamie, you were a yes.

Jamie Bartkowicz: I come from a totally different situation, so we didn't

really have an alumni, like, solid group out here when I moved out here.

I also had like, no connection.

I moved out like six months after graduation with like barely any money.

I didn't have any leads on a job or a place to live.

So me and my roommate literally lived out of our cars for three weeks and

like couch surfed and spent a bunch of money on cheap motels if we had to.

But I essentially was homeless for three weeks.

So I came from a very different situation, but I look back on those times and think

that it made me stronger in it because I think I was prepared for it not to be

easy because I didn't have any connections or any easy way of getting around, but

it kind of shaped me into the career and kind of prepared me moving forward,

being like, well, I'm here and I worked really hard to make it this far, so I'm

going to not fail and I'm not going to move back and kind of go through it.

It really just depends on your situation.

And, you know, , I wish someone told me to save up more money.

I wish, I wish I knew more alumni who lived out here.

I wish there was like the alumni group that we have now.

Like these meetings that we do yearly and everything like that or

these webinars, we didn't have that.

We did not have that, and I knew like one person and we were mutual

friends and luckily he let me sleep on his couch for a little bit,

but like, I didn't have anyone.

Like what Kelly had for me, I wish I had for someone, be like, can I just

sleep in your living room for a couple weeks until I get my feet on the ground?

So I guess it really just depends on your situation, which is really

important that you guys are even watching things like these webinars

and making connections before you move out to LA, because you don't have

those connections, it's gonna be hell.

Talon Rudel: If I could add, it just depends on what you're willing to go

through, what your like, rock bottom is.

Like, I was planning on, I had a minivan at the time that fell apart and

I was planning on living in if like, I couldn't find an apartment, quick

enough after staying on A.J.'s couch.

Like I lied and said I had a place to live when I got my internship and

did all those things, and I was like willing to live in my car and it just

depends on what you're willing to do.

And yeah, it's going to be very rocky.

Like I didn't have a job.

I was almost out of money.

And then all of a sudden, I just like out of nowhere, I got a freelance gig at FX

that now has turned into a staff position.

It depends.

It's going to be hard.

Harder versus harder than I expected, I don't know.

Katie Dehn: All right, let's go to a new, another question.

Can you talk about the difference between working for an organization,

a company or freelancing in LA.

Scott, are you the only one freelancing?

Scott Sheppard: I don't know about everybody else, but yeah, I've been

freelancing pretty much for 11 years.

I was like permalance at a company for about two years, which has

basically been kind of outlawed now.

There's, there's all these new labor laws in California, which

make freelancing really complicated.

So I had to actually set up my own corporation to continue freelancing

because you can't, you can't even hire people as independent contractors in

California anymore because of the new law.

The thing they don't really teach you is that there's all this like business savvy

that you need to get through all this.

So a lot of what I do is like, as a business person, dealing with accountants

and lawyers and, you know, figuring out finances and stuff like that, that

you don't really have to think about if you're just a W2 employee, but I

like it because I do my own projects.

So I can't really continue directing and producing my own projects if I have to

give 40 to 60 hours a week to a company.

I need that flexibility.

Katie Dehn: So anyone want to comment on working for a company?

A.J.?

A.J. Bedard: Yeah.

To, to inverse that I'm a big fan of stability, and I'm in post, so

being able to just have a job and have that for a good amount of

time is something that I was really looking for when I first moved to LA.

And luckily I got in with a company, started as a runner, kind of moved up

in the ranks to assistant editor and then eventually editor, and the nice

part about like being at a company versus jumping from job to job is

that there's potential to move up.

And granted, Talon started as a freelancer in, at FX and got into a staff, I'm

sure he's going to talk about that, but also being able to have benefits

is great, from the company that I'm at.

And like I had that when I started as a runner, like it,

sometimes it starts early.

I'm a big fan of stability.

So I would say working for a company, there's something solid there.

I don't need to worry about finding out where the next

check is going to come from.

Talon Rudel: I think it just also depends on what your ultimate goal is.

Like if you find a job like mine, where I can sort of do my work during the

day, and then also at night, focus on my writing or focus on other things, then

that works for me and I do it and then I have the stability of having health

insurance and having the security of having a paycheck every week and not

having to stress about finding work every five months or whatever it is.

So it just depends on what your ultimate goal is.

If you're wanting to create your own projects and you need the

openness of freelance, then do that.

But if you want the stability to be able to use the time, but then there's also

staff jobs that don't allow you to do that, that take all your energy working

40, 60 hours a week can make it impossible to write, or make it impossible.

Like A.J., for example, as trailer editor, that's his life for basically

all week and sometimes weekends.

A.J. Bedard: It's a lot of hours.

It's a, it's a highly demanding job, but the good part is that I like it.

So I put a lot of energy toward it.

Kelly Loughlin: So, so I worked as freelance to kind of gear

up for a company position.

So I, I'm really happy with my resume and I think it got the key to help me get

this job is like I was saying earlier, I had that office experience back home

in Indiana, but then I had several freelance positions specifically in LA.

And even though they were on sets, like set dresser or art P.A., I was

able to show, hey, I've actually worked on sets out here that I can point

at, and here's my office experience, and that blend was really helpful.

So my roommate, she's entirely freelance.

She's set dresser.

She's trying to get into a union, but she's been working at this for five

years, and this is the first year before COVID happened, that she was really

able to just have so many projects that she was able to turn things down.

And she had been on unemployment before, during gaps in production,

like the summer months, June, July, and sometimes really slow for that.

And she had to go on unemployment, but it's taken her several years to be

able to get to this point that she is constantly in demand as a freelancer.

And I think if you're coming out here as totally green, not a ton of like

jobs lined up, and you're trying to pay all your bills off of freelance, I'm

going to say it's very, very difficult to do as a freelance PA starting

out here from what I've experienced.

But I mean, an internship is a great segue rather than just trying to find

a job off of Craigslist or something.

Scott Sheppard: I mean, you mentioned unemployment Kelly.

I think unemployment's actually really, really common in LA.

Even if you're in like one of the unions, like say you're like a

union grip or something, you might have three weeks in between gigs,

and those might be nine month gigs.

People file for unemployment like the day their job ends because they don't

know when the next one's going to start.

So those people, they're kind of staff, they're kind of freelance, it changes,

but like unemployment, I don't see it as, as even like a bad sign of anything.

It's just very, it's needed.

Katie Dehn: Oh, that's a great perspective.

I--

Kelly Loughlin: It is.

Katie Dehn: --didn't know that.

So one thing I did want to touch on since I have a couple strong females in

this group, is what's the difference, like for you guys, the female

perspective of working and living in LA?

Any considerations that you've had to make as far as where you live,

what you, how you approach jobs?

Jamie Bartkowicz: I love talking about this topic because I like to really

enforce the idea of sexism in our career and entertainment specifically.

When people hear sexism, they immediately think that I'm being

told you can't do this because you're a girl or I don't like you because

you're a girl, like it's very blatant.

Now there have been situations.

I've been called many names on film sets because of my gender, but I think the

most common one that we deal with on a daily basis almost, is microaggressions,

which I think is the underdog form of sexism that people don't really

talk about much or really understand.

Something that I have always had to deal with, even working in a corporate setting,

is the microaggressions of either getting mansplained something, or being talked

over constantly or not listening to what I'm saying in a meeting and then saying

exactly what I said five seconds later.

Those are the kind of things that, I think, as females we deal with on a daily

basis that we kind of just become used to.

I can go on my day unbothered most of the time, but it is something

that we deal with constantly.

And it's something that we deal with with some of our

closest friends and colleagues.

You know, some of my closest friends at work have talked over me or have

accidentally mansplained something to me, and the thing I would say is something

that we're seeing a lot of now, especially in the anti-racism movement, is people

being understanding and not so defensive when they are called out on something.

And so my advice to everyone, men, women, everything in between, is that

when someone tells you, hey, I think you just mansplained something to

me, or you said something to me that was a little condescending, for you

to just accept it because the last thing I want to hear is someone tell

me, well, I didn't mean it that way.

It's like, well, that's how it was perceived.

So you're going to have to deal with that a lot.

I mean, I have a lot of very sexism motions in my job because I work on

a construction site half the year.

So I work with union construction guys that are just gross, so I have to

deal with a lot of things like that or being thought of that I can't handle

something on a work site, being asked where my pink hard hat is, is a fun

one, um, being told to smile constantly.

I also work in horror.

So working in horror can sometimes be very sexist because it's considered a

man's gig, and so being, you know, this female working in horror is not always

fun because a lot of times I'm not taken as seriously as my male counterparts, or

when I show up to a meeting or a set or something as an assistant art director,

people will look at my male coordinator and immediately start asking him the

questions, assuming that he is in charge.

They'll ask me, like, are you going to be taking notes today

and I'll be like, I'm not.

My coordinator's going to be taking notes.

Let's not do the assumptions so much.

Katie Dehn: And Kelly, do you have anything to add?

Kelly Loughlin: Yeah, actually, even before I moved out here, there was an

incident at GV with a fellow film student who was making some sexist comments on

Facebook, about women in the film program.

And I actually had a nice meeting with some of the film professors about

it, just talking about like the state of it, and then hearing some of the

female film professors saying things about male students doing even towards

them, which was, ugh, I mean, we, we always know sexism is everywhere.

Every industry, everywhere in the world.

I've applied for freelance jobs out here and then I I'm contacted for it,

and then they're saying, oh, well, we were looking for a guy to do it.

And I'm like, why?

And it's things about like, you know, lifting or aspects of

the job where it's like, that doesn't necessarily exclude women.

You can just say that you need a strength requirement and be

able to lift X amount of pounds.

I'm really lucky in that there's a, there's a pretty even gender split

in the office that I'm working at.

I can't speak for sets so much, but definitely in office environments.

I feel like it is very even, very fair.

We have women in coordination positions, director positions, all kinds of things.

So, I feel like definitely for the office production aspect, I feel like

it's been pretty good to us as women.

Katie Dehn: That's great to hear.

Now, I'll ask the three gentlemen, have you ever had any experience with sexism

as a male or seen it happening to your female coworkers, and do you have any

recommendations for how to be a good supporter to your female coworkers?

Talon Rudel: I was going to say I've definitely seen it in the office and

the best advice is just to listen to people and let them talk, and

don't try to explain what you think.

Just listen and understand, and then try to go from there and move from

there from the perspective of empathy, rather than , oh, I understand this.

You have to listen to people because you're going to see it.

The best way to be an advocate is to help them help themselves.

Just support people.

Katie Dehn: And Scott?

Scott Sheppard: Yeah, I've definitely seen it.

I've experienced it a little bit myself and I've worked for some

companies where the room is all men and that always weirds me out.

I hate working for companies that it's all men.

I always find the working environments are best when there's a lot of women in charge

or there's like more women than men.

I really like those companies a lot.

And I would just say to guys, if you see this, call it out.

If you're afraid to call it out, think how much more afraid the people are to

call it out who it's directed towards.

So, I mean, I don't think the onus has to be on women to call out sexism, I think.

I think if men are the ones perpetrating it, they can call it

out and should call it out even more.

Katie Dehn: That's a great, I'm so happy to hear you say that.

That's really encouraging for the future of the film industry, I think.

Talon Rudel: I would also echo that goes with other -isms, like racism.

If you're noticing that every single person is white, call it out.

If you're noticing that people might be getting mistreated, even if it's

might get, be getting mistreated because of the color of their skin

or their identity, call it out.

That's something that needs to change.

And so if you can bring it up, do it.

Katie Dehn: Well, we are ending our time here today.

This has been an awesome conversation.

And I didn't know if you guys each want to go around with maybe one

final piece of advice that you just really been wanting to share?

Talon Rudel: The thing that I wish I would've known is save more

money than you think you need.

I had like six or seven grand and that went away within five or six months.

Not all of it, but a lot of it did because I was paying rent without an income.

I had an unpaid internship.

I would say minimum, save 10 grand and find a place that

you're comfortable living.

On top of that, know what you want to do, what your goal is.

And not only that, know the why.

Like I want to write, and so, and I know the why I want to write.

And so then every decision I make needs to service that goal.

And so that will answer all of those questions that people are asking like,

okay, should I do freelance or staff?

Should I do this or that?

Should I do this or this?

Know what you want to do, and then find the answers to

all the subsequent questions.

Katie Dehn: Jamie, you got any last words of wisdom?

Jamie Bartkowicz: I would say that, whether you're moving to LA, New York,

anywhere, just know that it's not going to be as easy as you think, and that you

just need to mentally prepare for that and just really have a big solid plan.

And then, you know, during this time some of my biggest advice to people when they

ask, like, what can they do right now since there's no jobs and they're kind

of just feeling a little stuck during the pandemic, my biggest advice is just

to seek out any opportunity you can.

You never stop learning.

If you have access to LinkedIn learning or things like that, if you want to

learn new programs and skills, if you can find other webinars and panels like

this one, or if there's any jobs that are just adjacent to entertainment.

Entertainment isn't just film.

I work in themed entertainment, which is like theme parks, museums, events.

So there are so many different parts of entertainment that you can easily move

through and those skills still apply.

So just kind of seeing what is out there and what you can do now during these

tough times that might help you gain skills and work experience that you can

eventually transfer over back into film.

Katie Dehn: Awesome Kelly?

Kelly Loughlin: Live in the Valley, have a car, learn how to write an

email properly, make sure that you have those most basic, I'm so serious.

Just remember, learn how to do an Excel sheet, get those basics

taken care of, have your own car.

Don't have California car insurance, stay on that Michigan car insurance if you

can, and basically just remember that even if you have your own path that you

think you want to take, don't be afraid to deviate from that because it's not

going to dictate the rest of your life.

Try new things.

Look on Craigslist.

Craigslist isn't that scary.

You'll find a job out here.

I found a couple of positions off of there.

So just, just stay open and stay safe and know it's possible.

It is possible.

It's totally possible.

Katie Dehn: And Scott, any words of wisdom?

Scott Sheppard: I would say be very careful about Craigslist.

There are jobs on Craigslist, but they are the shadiest jobs you will find anywhere.

There are a lot of other job sites.

Craigslist is shady, but I have found good jobs on there.

You just have to be really discerning.

Kelly Loughlin: Yeah, be careful.

Scott Sheppard: You have to be very careful.

I would say depending on what your goals are, I mean, I think a lot of people go

to film school, they want to be a writer director, they want to be a producer.

That changes a lot of times.

And I think that's, I think that's good.

But I think for the people that are thinking that they want to be

a writer director just expect it's going to take 10 to 20 years before

that really starts happening for you.

And if you're not willing to put in the work for it to take 10 to 20

years, then maybe don't go that path.

Because if you set a benchmark of 10 years and you are directing films in like

seven, you're doing great, you know, but if you're 10 years in and you're thinking,

why is this not happening for me yet?

That's pretty normal.

I mean, if your goals are very high, they're just going to take

way longer than maybe you expect, so you need to be prepared for that.

A.J. Bedard: If you're still in college, get involved with as many things as

you can, because that's the experience that's going to show off in California.

If you're a part of like Grand Valley TV or the radio or different things

that give you the experience, that's going to show on your resume out here

and people are going to be impressed by that, that as a college student,

you're able to balance all that.

If you're out here apply, apply, apply to jobs because, even if it's stuff

that you're not exactly qualified for.

Places might have different opportunities in lower positions for you.

It's just all about kind of getting your name out there.

I applied so many times and stuff comes back.

Don't feel too bad if you don't get something within a month,

because after that I started getting job applications back and job

interviews and things like that.

And finally, if you're out here learn to become fluent in

street signs and curb colors.

That will also save a lot of money.

Kelly Loughlin: Oh yeah.

Katie Dehn: Well, thank you all.

This has been enlightening, a little creepy with the bugs that we talked

about and, don't live with Talon and--

Yeah, things we all need to know.

So, I would just encourage all of you to connect with the

Alumni Live future broadcasts.

We have more episodes coming.

Just connect with all of our lovely panelists today, via social media,

LinkedIn, and start your networking now.

And move to LA when you're ready with money in the bank.

That's all I have for you--

And after COVID, right.

Well, it takes some time to get money in the bank.

So you have that time already put in.

Let's all be smart and safe with our face masks on and, uh, get

back to work when it's safe.

So thank you all again.

We're signing off Alumni Live.

Randy Strobl: Thank you for joining us for this episode of Alumni Live the Podcast.

Subscribe to our podcast to hear more from our alumni across the industry.

Check out Alumni Live on Facebook, Instagram, and YouTube for more

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Let us know what topics you want to hear our alumni talk about.

The Grand Valley State University Film Video Alumni Network is here for

you, and we're glad that you're here.

Thank you for listening.