00;00;01;03 - 00;00;05;06 So we are really right now teetering on the precipice

00;00;05;20 - 00;00;09;20 of the Armageddon of library funding.

00;00;09;29 - 00;00;13;01 Nobody is talking about this.

00;00;13;01 - 00;00;15;15 Welcome to CADL Cast with Capital Area

00;00;15;15 - 00;00;18;22 District Libraries Executive Director Scott Duimstra.

00;00;18;25 - 00;00;22;13 As Capital Area District Library passed their most recent operational millage.

00;00;22;18 - 00;00;24;11 Thank you voters.

00;00;24;11 - 00;00;27;18 We wanted to raise awareness of public library funding and highlight

00;00;27;18 - 00;00;31;23 the work of every library, a nonprofit organization that helps secure

00;00;31;23 - 00;00;36;14 funding and works to ensure that libraries will be available for communities,

00;00;36;21 - 00;00;39;17 for schools, and for colleges around the US.

00;00;39;28 - 00;00;44;07 Joining us today is Patrick Sweeney, political director of EveryLibrary.

00;00;44;08 - 00;00;46;26 Patrick, thanks for joining us on CADL Cast.

00;00;46;26 - 00;00;47;16 Thank you.

00;00;47;16 - 00;00;50;07 Thanks for having me. I really appreciate it.

00;00;50;07 - 00;00;54;08 And I know I gave a very, very brief overview of every library

00;00;54;08 - 00;00;54;29 in the introduction.

00;00;54;29 - 00;00;59;13 And so could you talk about how every library formed and your mission as well?

00;00;59;22 - 00;01;01;02 Yeah, absolutely.

00;01;01;02 - 00;01;06;10 So every library was formed in 2012, largely in response to

00;01;06;28 - 00;01;10;11 the growing anti-tax, anti-government movement

00;01;10;11 - 00;01;13;01 that was spawned during the Great Recession.

00;01;13;01 - 00;01;15;25 So we saw a small

00;01;15;25 - 00;01;19;02 but very vocal minority of Americans who wanted to

00;01;20;01 - 00;01;20;21 eliminate

00;01;20;21 - 00;01;23;25 tax funding for libraries or eliminate libraries

00;01;23;25 - 00;01;27;10 in and of themselves because they are tax funded government organizations.

00;01;27;22 - 00;01;31;09 And what we found in launching our organization is a 501c4,

00;01;31;09 - 00;01;35;07 which is essentially a social issue PAC for libraries, political action

00;01;35;07 - 00;01;36;23 committee for Libraries.

00;01;36;23 - 00;01;38;22 Is that

00;01;38;29 - 00;01;41;29 libraries very rarely have the tools

00;01;42;14 - 00;01;45;09 or the resources to advocate fully

00;01;45;22 - 00;01;48;00 on their own behalf.

00;01;48;15 - 00;01;51;09 So when libraries are attacked,

00;01;51;23 - 00;01;54;21 there's very little that the library itself can do.

00;01;55;13 - 00;01;59;04 Your friends, your foundation can take far more action in the library again.

00;01;59;15 - 00;02;01;29 But often those are volunteer groups, or

00;02;03;13 - 00;02;06;18 they're organized around book sales and library

00;02;06;18 - 00;02;10;14 funds and library fundraisers, but not necessarily library advocacy.

00;02;10;14 - 00;02;12;25 And that's sort of a different thing.

00;02;12;25 - 00;02;16;24 Most of the library campaigns and elections that we see are run

00;02;16;24 - 00;02;20;08 by a handful of community

00;02;20;08 - 00;02;22;28 members who just want to see children learn to read.

00;02;23;08 - 00;02;25;27 They want to see economic opportunities for their community.

00;02;26;27 - 00;02;28;25 They want to see

00;02;28;25 - 00;02;31;12 our decreased

00;02;32;07 - 00;02;33;28 crime rates.

00;02;34;00 - 00;02;36;07 They just want to see improvement within their community.

00;02;36;07 - 00;02;38;12 And they don't have the tools or tactics or training.

00;02;38;13 - 00;02;39;18 They're not political operatives.

00;02;39;18 - 00;02;41;26 They've never run political campaigns before. 00;02;41;26 - 00;02;45;13 And so we developed every library as an organization to provide

00;02;45;13 - 00;02;48;17 tools and data and training

00;02;48;17 - 00;02;50;22 for free to local libraries.

00;02;50;22 - 00;02;53;00 Who would go into the voters?

00;02;53;00 - 00;02;53;26 Since that time, we've grown.

00;02;53;26 - 00;02;57;02 We've taken on some other fights, the legislature on legislative issues,

00;02;57;02 - 00;03;00;29 and we're deeply involved in the book banning issues that we're seeing today.

00;03;00;29 - 00;03;03;06 But every library help

00;03;04;01 - 00;03;07;29 libraries gain about $2.8 billion

00;03;07;29 - 00;03;11;16 in stable funding through tax dollars through our work.

00;03;11;24 - 00;03;14;23 And we've worked on about 127 library campaigns,

00;03;15;15 - 00;03;19;18 about as many school library issues and non

00;03;22;01 - 00;03;24;26 non ballot initiative issues, the legislative work,

00;03;26;10 - 00;03;26;20 public

00;03;26;20 - 00;03;28;27 library closure work, that kind of stuff.

00;03;30;01 - 00;03;32;27 But just as as a as a bystander,

00;03;33;11 - 00;03;35;26 you know, the work that that your organization does is

00;03;35;26 - 00;03;39;18 is phenomenal because I can tell you, we are we have a very short millage cycle.

00;03;39;18 - 00;03;42;22 So we go out every four years and ask for our operation millage

00;03;43;07 - 00;03;44;19 if things go smoothly.

00;03;44;19 - 00;03;48;10 As you said, there's a small group of core volunteers that help get it passed. 00;03;48;19 - 00;03;50;21 If there's no

00;03;50;23 - 00;03;53;18 issues around it, it's usually very easy.

00;03;53;19 - 00;03;54;13 As soon as there's

00;03;54;13 - 00;03;58;28 any type of conflict or a vote, no group, it gets very, very complicated.

00;03;58;28 - 00;04;00;11 And you are totally right.

00;04;00;11 - 00;04;03;12 The volunteers are usually sign up, are not prepared or not

00;04;03;12 - 00;04;06;27 trained on how to respond to some of those vote no initiatives.

00;04;06;28 - 00;04;07;18 Yeah.

00;04;07;18 - 00;04;13;05 And what you just said that I think is really, really important.

00;04;13;12 - 00;04;18;16 You know, we don't have a culture of advocacy in the library industry.

00;04;19;00 - 00;04;20;11 To a.

00;04;20;11 - 00;04;23;20 Sophisticated level simply because we've never had to have it before.

00;04;23;27 - 00;04;24;10 Correct.

00;04;24;10 - 00;04;27;14 Could put out a couple of signs that say vote yes for the library

00;04;27;14 - 00;04;28;12 and it would generally pass.

00;04;28;12 - 00;04;31;14 That was a library campaign before 2008.

00;04;31;27 - 00;04;35;12 Since then, we've really had the fight and we're fighting against more

00;04;35;12 - 00;04;39;00 and more sophisticated political operatives with more funding

00;04;39;00 - 00;04;43;14 for, better organize and have huge tools that they're at their fingertips

00;04;43;25 - 00;04;47;24 from national organizations like Americans for Prosperity, Moms for Liberty,

00;04;47;24 - 00;04;48;21 those kinds of groups. 00;04;50;04 - 00;04;51;13 Intent related to that.

00;04;51;13 - 00;04;55;01 Just what do you see nationwide as is the current climate in the U.S.

00;04;55;01 - 00;04;57;22 regarding library funding and also library support?

00;04;59;02 - 00;05;00;11 Oh, we're screwed.

00;05;00;11 - 00;05;02;24 Yeah.

00;05;02;24 - 00;05;06;01 Not to be too blunt about it, of course.

00;05;06;01 - 00;05;09;14 No. You know, so so 98% of library

00;05;09;14 - 00;05;11;28 funding is political in nature. 98%

00;05;13;19 - 00;05;14;21 before every library.

00;05;14;21 - 00;05;18;27 There's never been an organization that works on that 98% of library funding.

00;05;18;27 - 00;05;22;19 Various state associations worked on state library, State 00;05;22;27 - 00;05;27;10 Library funding issues, which is about 3 to 5% of their funding matrix.

00;05;27;21 - 00;05;31;06 ALA worked on federal funding issues,

00;05;31;06 - 00;05;34;13 which is again another 3 to 5% of library funding.

00;05;35;09 - 00;05;37;14 But 90% of library funding comes

00;05;37;14 - 00;05;40;17 at the local level from local voters and local legislators.

00;05;40;17 - 00;05;43;26 And there's never been an organization before working at that level

00;05;44;18 - 00;05;49;19 to build support in that capacity for working at that level.

00;05;49;19 - 00;05;52;17 And because libraries have really had to fight for their funding before,

00;05;52;17 - 00;05;56;16 we never took the time to look at voter perceptions of libraries.

00;05;56;16 - 00;05;58;13 We've never done public opinion poll. 00;05;58;13 - 00;06;01;18 We don't have voter models around to vote for libraries or why.

00;06;02;00 - 00;06;04;22 The only two times that we've ever had

00;06;05;28 - 00;06;09;02 a longitudinal study on looking at voter

00;06;09;02 - 00;06;13;11 support from libraries is in the study called Awareness to Funding by OCLC.

00;06;13;18 - 00;06;17;23 Yeah, it's an incredibly, incredibly important piece of research

00;06;17;23 - 00;06;20;26 that I mean, the fact that it's not required

00;06;20;26 - 00;06;23;19 reading for every labor in America just is beyond me.

00;06;24;03 - 00;06;27;23 Because what they found is that between 2008 and 2018,

00;06;27;26 - 00;06;32;02 we've lost about 20% of voters support for libraries, 20%.

00;06;32;09 - 00;06;34;26 And that was five years ago that that dataset came up.

00;06;35;06 - 00;06;37;15 So who knows where we are now?

00;06;37;15 - 00;06;42;01 So right now or in 2018, five years ago,

00;06;42;05 - 00;06;46;08 42% of Americans were unlikely to vote for their library,

00;06;46;24 - 00;06;50;19 largely based on their beliefs on government and taxation

00;06;50;19 - 00;06;53;04 and the role of government and taxes in American society.

00;06;54;02 - 00;06;56;22 Very, very rarely is it like, I hate the library.

00;06;56;22 - 00;06;58;03 We almost never do that.

00;06;58;03 - 00;07;00;27 It's always just, I love the library. Somebody else should pay for it.

00;07;01;28 - 00;07;03;23 So what's

00;07;03;23 - 00;07;07;27 devastating is that once that number gets above 50%, 00;07;07;27 - 00;07;11;02 which is the voter threshold that we need to win in an election.

00;07;11;04 - 00;07;15;25 So if more than 50% of Americans on average across the country

00;07;15;25 - 00;07;20;03 are unlikely to vote for their libraries, that is the end of local library

00;07;20;03 - 00;07;21;28 funding because voters aren't going to vote for it.

00;07;21;28 - 00;07;25;13 Legislators aren't going to to enact legislation

00;07;25;13 - 00;07;27;16 in support of libraries because voters don't support it.

00;07;28;06 - 00;07;32;09 So we are really right now teetering on the precipice

00;07;32;23 - 00;07;35;17 of the Armageddon of library

00;07;35;17 - 00;07;39;24 funding, and nobody is talking about it.

00;07;40;22 - 00;07;45;05 Yeah, I read that OCLC record and presented it to our staff.

00;07;45;05 - 00;07;47;16 And as you just talked about,

00;07;47;16 - 00;07;51;00 our our operation ideology accounts for about 90% of our funding.

00;07;51;01 - 00;07;53;08 Without it, we would cease to exist.

00;07;53;08 - 00;07;58;02 And I see some of the no voters that that we hear from are well,

00;07;58;02 - 00;07;59;28 there's other ways that you can pay for it

00;07;59;28 - 00;08;03;01 rather than my tax dollars, like the state will come in and rescue you

00;08;03;01 - 00;08;05;05 or the federal government will come in and rescue you and.

00;08;05;16 - 00;08;06;09 Have just.

00;08;06;25 - 00;08;08;25 Like, no, there is no one for us.

00;08;08;25 - 00;08;10;26 Like your library will close

00;08;11;25 - 00;08;12;20 without this.

00;08;12;20 - 00;08;16;02 And it's it's trying to tell your story, but it's also

00;08;16;21 - 00;08;20;01 advocating and having an advocate

00;08;20;10 - 00;08;25;03 avocation campaign and also a group like every library to help with that.

00;08;25;03 - 00;08;28;22 Because as you said, library directors, library boards

00;08;28;22 - 00;08;32;27 are not trained to do this type of work or not familiar with it at least.

00;08;33;07 - 00;08;33;23 Yeah.

00;08;33;23 - 00;08;37;22 Know when I, when I started, when I got out of library school,

00;08;37;25 - 00;08;39;15 it was just before the recession.

00;08;39;15 - 00;08;42;19 I got to manage the opening of a brand new library

00;08;43;13 - 00;08;46;19 and then I immediately had to 00;08;46;19 - 00;08;48;01 lay off half my staff.

00;08;48;01 - 00;08;49;26 We had to take 15% furlough days.

00;08;49;26 - 00;08;53;04 We cut the library hours from 80 from 80 hours a week

00;08;53;04 - 00;08;56;10 to like 30 hours a week.

00;08;56;10 - 00;08;59;24 And what I quickly realized a year out of library school

00;08;59;24 - 00;09;02;14 is that nobody had ever taught me where my paycheck comes from.

00;09;03;16 - 00;09;06;01 Nobody ever taught me how I paid for the books on the shelf.

00;09;06;01 - 00;09;09;21 And nobody taught me how to influence, how to pay for books on the shelf.

00;09;09;25 - 00;09;15;08 And that and and that is I mean, that is such a fundamental misstep

00;09;15;10 - 00;09;17;11 in the way that we train librarians 00;09;19;10 - 00;09;22;13 who don't understand the legalities of fundraising,

00;09;22;13 - 00;09;24;18 who do understand the legalities of advocacy,

00;09;24;27 - 00;09;27;21 the tools, tips, tricks of community organizing,

00;09;28;02 - 00;09;32;05 the things that really power our libraries are missing from library school.

00;09;32;16 - 00;09;35;02 I think that is wildly terrifying.

00;09;36;12 - 00;09;38;08 I wholeheartedly agree,

00;09;38;08 - 00;09;40;28 and it's something that you learn from experience, but

00;09;41;27 - 00;09;45;02 you also have to go through that experience and be open to it as well too.

00;09;45;02 - 00;09;49;06 So I think I wholeheartedly agree and I think it is, as you mentioned,

00;09;49;06 - 00;09;53;04 one of the biggest threats to public libraries in the US as well too. 00;09;53;14 - 00;09;56;08 And as we know, another threat is kind

00;09;56;08 - 00;09;59;15 of the active campaign against libraries

00;09;59;15 - 00;10;03;07 based on the materials that they have and we've seen a lot of that in Michigan.

00;10;03;07 - 00;10;06;25 But I also know that it's happening nationally as well, too.

00;10;06;25 - 00;10;10;00 So what are you seeing is nationally regarding the threats

00;10;10;00 - 00;10;14;17 to library funding based on the materials that libraries have in their collections?

00;10;15;02 - 00;10;19;10 Yeah, I mean, this is this is just an absolutely wild time right now.

00;10;19;22 - 00;10;20;00 Mm hmm.

00;10;21;06 - 00;10;21;18 We have

00;10;21;18 - 00;10;25;26 organizations like Moms for Liberty who are very well financed, 00;10;25;26 - 00;10;30;27 who have significant ties to the political universe.

00;10;30;27 - 00;10;35;14 They have ties to legislators, they have ties to ties to major funders.

00;10;36;08 - 00;10;39;25 And they're spending millions of dollars coming out against libraries, or at least

00;10;39;25 - 00;10;42;01 they're raising millions of dollars coming out against libraries.

00;10;42;01 - 00;10;43;22 And that's just month for Liberty.

00;10;43;22 - 00;10;46;17 There's dozens of small splinter groups.

00;10;46;17 - 00;10;52;07 There are larger groups like the Heritage Foundation, Hillsdale College.

00;10;52;14 - 00;10;54;10 PRAGER You

00;10;55;10 - 00;10;58;16 you know, all of these organizations that are spending

00;10;59;09 - 00;11;03;18 I mean, they're outspending us probably 1000 to 1 to push on this 00;11;03;29 - 00;11;07;03 narrative that we're indoctrinating or grooming children,

00;11;08;01 - 00;11;11;01 which is which is absolutely wild to me and the public.

00;11;12;08 - 00;11;15;02 The public isn't falling for it

00;11;15;02 - 00;11;18;02 as much as it sounds like, which is kind of the high point.

00;11;19;00 - 00;11;21;09 We were just looking at some data from Florida

00;11;21;09 - 00;11;25;22 where parents are given the opportunity to opt out in a number of districts,

00;11;25;22 - 00;11;29;24 to opt their students out of library books and reading materials,

00;11;30;09 - 00;11;34;05 and less than 1% of parents of their children now. Wow.

00;11;34;05 - 00;11;38;24 And so we're being held hostage in this country by an ideal ideology.

00;11;38;24 - 00;11;43;27 That only point, I think the highest one was 0.46%.

00;11;43;27 - 00;11;46;28 So, you know, 99.5, 6% of

00;11;46;28 - 00;11;49;21 parents aren't in favor of book banning.

00;11;50;09 - 00;11;53;25 And yet those are the people that 0.46% of the people

00;11;53;25 - 00;11;56;09 that we're being held hostage by. Yeah.

00;11;56;09 - 00;11;58;00 Who are restricting books.

00;11;58;00 - 00;12;01;12 And the big thing is, if this was

00;12;01;29 - 00;12;05;21 what we're seeing, what we saw from the progressive side of book banning,

00;12;05;21 - 00;12;07;29 because there have, of course, been the progressive book bands.

00;12;07;29 - 00;12;10;26 You know, we've seen books that have been attempted

00;12;11;06 - 00;12;15;08 to be banned by progressives because they have the N word in 00;12;15;23 - 00;12;18;27 Huckleberry Finn, To Kill a mockingbird, those kinds of things.

00;12;19;10 - 00;12;21;22 But those were very unserious.

00;12;21;22 - 00;12;24;22 They were they were not well organized.

00;12;24;22 - 00;12;27;17 They were not well funded. The people who were running it weren't trained.

00;12;28;17 - 00;12;29;00 And it didn't

00;12;29;00 - 00;12;33;16 lead to government regulations about the books that Americans read.

00;12;33;28 - 00;12;36;05 We didn't have to take it serious because it wasn't serious.

00;12;36;22 - 00;12;39;29 And they're using that justification that some books have been banned

00;12;39;29 - 00;12;44;11 by progressives in order to enact real long standing legislation

00;12;44;29 - 00;12;47;13 that ensures that Americans are restricted

00;12;48;07 - 00;12;51;04 in the books that they are allowed to access in their public libraries.

00;12;52;06 - 00;12;53;22 And it's a vocal minority that's doing that.

00;12;53;22 - 00;12;57;10 I think that's that's very, very terrifying

00;12;59;09 - 00;13;01;03 that that this is being allowed

00;13;01;03 - 00;13;03;17 to happen, that legislators are taking this seriously.

00;13;04;12 - 00;13;04;21 But we're

00;13;04;21 - 00;13;08;15 also what we're also finding here is that the reason that legislators are taking it

00;13;08;15 - 00;13;12;16 so seriously is because this is a huge fundraising boon

00;13;12;23 - 00;13;15;06 to to so many legislators.

00;13;15;06 - 00;13;21;02 You know, if only 1% of Americans are believed that books should be banned

00;13;22;03 - 00;13;24;25 and they each give $10, that's over three.

00;13;25;02 - 00;13;27;26 That's over. That's over.

00;13;28;00 - 00;13;31;26 What does that $30 million and and funding

00;13;31;26 - 00;13;35;26 that they've been able to raise, that's real political money.

00;13;36;07 - 00;13;38;26 So why would they give up

00;13;39;03 - 00;13;41;28 this whole book banning thing, even though the public sentiment

00;13;41;28 - 00;13;45;13 is turning against them when it's driving so many of the activities

00;13;45;13 - 00;13;48;10 that they're doing through that, through those donations?

00;13;49;02 - 00;13;52;02 Well, that's one of the things that I tried to express as well, too,

00;13;52;02 - 00;13;55;15 because as you mentioned, it's a very small minority of individuals

00;13;55;15 - 00;13;58;10 who are against 00;14;00;02 - 00;14;01;13 what types of

00;14;01;13 - 00;14;07;12 materials, primarily LGBTQ plus and and and other types of materials in libraries,

00;14;07;12 - 00;14;12;13 collections and in and accusing library staff of grooming their children.

00;14;12;25 - 00;14;15;13 If there is a overwhelming majority

00;14;16;19 - 00;14;19;02 that do not want to limit the types of materials

00;14;19;02 - 00;14;22;07 and what their children have access to that let's hear those voices.

00;14;22;07 - 00;14;25;16 And that's where I would say, like, you know, don't don't wait till it's

00;14;25;16 - 00;14;28;21 too late to express your support

00;14;29;13 - 00;14;32;20 for libraries having open and accessible collections.

00;14;32;20 - 00;14;35;24 Don't wait til there's a there's a ban. 00;14;35;24 - 00;14;38;24 And in an attempt to pull these materials or the materials have been pulled

00;14;38;24 - 00;14;42;00 from the shelves, like be active on the other side

00;14;42;09 - 00;14;47;19 and advocate for First Amendment access to library materials.

00;14;48;02 - 00;14;52;23 Yeah, you know, and I think the other thing to remember here is that

00;14;53;22 - 00;14;55;18 the book banners are holding up

00;14;55;18 - 00;14;58;12 3 to 5 books that they dislike,

00;14;58;12 - 00;15;00;22 and they're using those books to validate

00;15;02;09 - 00;15;04;27 the banning of over or depending on

00;15;04;27 - 00;15;08;07 who is running the measurement between 1216 hundred books

00;15;09;24 - 00;15;12;12 on the basis that we're indoctrinating and grooming children

00;15;13;10 - 00;15;16;05 for leftist ideals or whatever.

00;15;16;05 - 00;15;19;28 But that's less than 1% of all books of a library's collection.

00;15;20;16 - 00;15;22;28 In a lot of cases, the library doesn't even carry those books

00;15;22;28 - 00;15;26;01 like we saw in Bonners Ferry in Idaho.

00;15;26;26 - 00;15;30;02 The library doesn't even carry the 400 books that they're screaming

00;15;30;02 - 00;15;30;27 at the library about.

00;15;30;27 - 00;15;33;13 They don't even have them.

00;15;33;26 - 00;15;36;07 And I think that's really concerning.

00;15;36;07 - 00;15;39;10 And look, if libraries were indoctrinating children, the books

00;15;39;10 - 00;15;43;15 that were being used to indoctrinate them would be more than 1% of the collection.

00;15;43;25 - 00;15;46;05 You know, like you can't nobody's indoctrinate. 00;15;46;06 - 00;15;47;00 There's there's

00;15;47;00 - 00;15;51;04 1% of every libraries collection in the world that I could find offensive.

00;15;51;04 - 00;15;54;14 And me, myself, I would restrict access to them.

00;15;55;00 - 00;15;58;05 But I think we can all find 1% of books in libraries

00;15;58;05 - 00;16;02;14 that we find distasteful around pleasing or not for our family.

00;16;02;14 - 00;16;06;13 And to use that as a basis to shut down an entire library, to deny access

00;16;06;13 - 00;16;09;03 to all of the books in the library is absolutely preposterous.

00;16;09;16 - 00;16;11;05 Right. I wholeheartedly agree.

00;16;11;05 - 00;16;14;09 And I know, as you mentioned, the majority of individuals do.

00;16;14;10 - 00;16;18;09 So if someone is a library advocate and a library user

00;16;18;09 - 00;16;21;21 and they want to show their support to their local library and also libraries

00;16;21;21 - 00;16;24;22 across their home state, across the country, what can they do

00;16;24;29 - 00;16;28;28 to become a library advocate or to get out?

00;16;29;03 - 00;16;33;05 There's there's so many things and it depends on people's political acumen.

00;16;33;05 - 00;16;35;14 It depends on what they want to do.

00;16;35;14 - 00;16;41;03 My biggest suggestion is to run for school board

00;16;41;05 - 00;16;44;01 and run for library board or become appointed to those

00;16;44;07 - 00;16;46;16 in your community that goes by appointment.

00;16;48;03 - 00;16;50;17 I think those are those are some of the biggest things. 00;16;50;17 - 00;16;54;10 You know, we just saw in telecom, a far right telecom company

00;16;55;11 - 00;16;58;21 spend hundreds of thousands of dollars to

00;16;59;25 - 00;17;04;07 have their school board members elected in Texas on the basis

00;17;04;07 - 00;17;08;22 that they could restrict the materials in those in those schools.

00;17;08;22 - 00;17;10;13 And if we don't have good people

00;17;10;13 - 00;17;14;00 turning out to run for office, they will only have bad people in office,

00;17;14;22 - 00;17;19;02 will only have people who want to deny Americans their rights in office.

00;17;19;04 - 00;17;22;06 And so I would love to see more people running for office.

00;17;22;06 - 00;17;24;19 I would love to, of course, see more librarians running for office.

00;17;25;02 - 00;17;26;24 I know our schedules are very busy 00;17;26;24 - 00;17;29;09 in our libraries, especially that's going on, you know,

00;17;30;24 - 00;17;32;26 but I think that would be very high impact.

00;17;34;02 - 00;17;35;24 I also think that it's really important

00;17;35;24 - 00;17;39;14 to contact your representatives if you go to action.

00;17;39;20 - 00;17;42;10 Every library board there are

00;17;44;18 - 00;17;46;19 petitions that you can sign

00;17;46;19 - 00;17;49;11 that to send an email to your state legislators.

00;17;50;04 - 00;17;52;29 You know, if you go to save school librarians, there's once

00;17;53;08 - 00;17;55;22 there's petitions there for the school library book banning.

00;17;56;15 - 00;17;57;28 So I highly recommend those.

00;17;57;28 - 00;17;59;29 Of course, donations are always great.

00;18;01;11 - 00;18;04;28 Large donations are really key to a lot of this.

00;18;04;28 - 00;18;08;15 And I hate I hate coming on and always talking about fundraising,

00;18;08;15 - 00;18;10;18 but it is really the key aspect to this.

00;18;11;21 - 00;18;15;24 You know, we are facing people with immense political power, influence,

00;18;16;06 - 00;18;18;16 and the only way you get political power and influence

00;18;18;16 - 00;18;21;12 in this country or most others is through people or money.

00;18;21;16 - 00;18;24;22 If you don't have one of those two things you don't have political power

00;18;24;22 - 00;18;29;03 or influence in the library industry as a whole, does not have

00;18;30;08 - 00;18;31;05 a national

00;18;31;05 - 00;18;34;04 database of supporters that they can call on to

00;18;35;07 - 00;18;37;12 push back against these book bans.

00;18;37;12 - 00;18;39;25 Nor do we have millions and millions of dollars

00;18;40;14 - 00;18;42;17 to push back against these programs.

00;18;42;17 - 00;18;45;23 And without one of those two things, I don't see a path towards winning.

00;18;46;10 - 00;18;48;28 So I'm going to say donate to every library.

00;18;49;01 - 00;18;50;09 Of course,

00;18;51;11 - 00;18;53;23 there's there's organizations like the Florida Freedom

00;18;53;23 - 00;18;57;10 to Read Project, the Freedom to Read Project in Texas

00;18;59;09 - 00;19;01;24 that that need funding and need support.

00;19;02;26 - 00;19;05;25 If you would like to start 00;19;05;25 - 00;19;09;05 an anti book banning campaign for your community,

00;19;09;05 - 00;19;12;07 every library can provide you with pro-bono support to do that.

00;19;12;18 - 00;19;15;03 We can provide you with tools, data,

00;19;15;23 - 00;19;17;22 access to

00;19;18;11 - 00;19;20;08 political operatives, basically

00;19;20;08 - 00;19;23;20 give you access to everything that these book

00;19;23;20 - 00;19;26;25 banning groups are providing access to for their small communities.

00;19;26;25 - 00;19;30;21 You know, these are national organization chains descending onto small towns,

00;19;31;10 - 00;19;32;24 disrupting those small towns,

00;19;34;15 - 00;19;36;19 utilizing the full force of their resources. 00;19;36;19 - 00;19;38;02 And we would like to help local

00;19;38;02 - 00;19;41;13 community members push back themselves in a lot of the same ways.

00;19;42;15 - 00;19;44;04 And I'll just for our listeners,

00;19;44;04 - 00;19;48;08 we will have a link to every library's website where you can get more involved

00;19;48;08 - 00;19;51;04 and get more information on every library as well too.

00;19;51;26 - 00;19;54;12 Patrick I know it's really hard to predict the future,

00;19;55;19 - 00;19;59;04 but what advice do you have for libraries that are planning

00;19;59;08 - 00;20;02;13 future challenges or dealing with challenges in their communities?

00;20;03;02 - 00;20;06;12 So that OCLC report found that

00;20;06;24 - 00;20;09;17 library support is not based on library use. 00;20;09;17 - 00;20;12;11 Library support is not based on whether or not somebody has a library card.

00;20;12;23 - 00;20;16;03 They've found that the one thing that impacts peoples

00;20;17;04 - 00;20;19;17 desire to take action on behalf of the library

00;20;19;17 - 00;20;23;11 is the single biggest motivating factor for people to take positive

00;20;24;22 - 00;20;26;02 action on behalf of

00;20;26;02 - 00;20;28;19 their libraries is their belief in their

00;20;28;29 - 00;20;32;05 their belief about and their relationship to their public librarian.

00;20;32;25 - 00;20;35;21 And when I say librarians, too, I mean everybody in the library,

00;20;35;21 - 00;20;37;18 everybody that the public believes is the librarian.

00;20;37;18 - 00;20;39;20 So everybody from page to director to friends 00;20;39;20 - 00;20;41;24 group to the guy that lives next door to the library, you know,

00;20;41;24 - 00;20;42;29 everybody verify that.

00;20;42;29 - 00;20;44;23 Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.

00;20;44;23 - 00;20;48;14 And in the public's belief and relationship to those people

00;20;48;14 - 00;20;53;15 working in that library is what's going to motivate people to take action.

00;20;53;15 - 00;20;57;19 So go out to your community groups, go out and meet people,

00;20;57;19 - 00;21;02;01 send your friends, group members out to just speak, shake hands, kiss babies.

00;21;02;01 - 00;21;06;04 You know, if 98% of library funding is political in nature

00;21;06;04 - 00;21;09;10 and the number one thing that motivates people to take out to go out

00;21;09;10 - 00;21;12;19 and take positive political action on behalf is our relationship

00;21;12;19 - 00;21;15;11 and belief about our librarians and whether or not we like it.

00;21;15;28 - 00;21;18;11 Librarians are candidates for our jobs, right?

00;21;18;12 - 00;21;21;04 Because that funding is what ensures that we have our jobs.

00;21;21;17 - 00;21;24;05 So I know librarians sign up to be political candidates.

00;21;24;05 - 00;21;27;27 I know we didn't sign up to you political, but that's you know, you're finding out

00;21;27;27 - 00;21;30;03 now because they should have taught you this in library school,

00;21;31;01 - 00;21;34;22 but go out and behave as a candidate, make as many friends

00;21;34;22 - 00;21;38;23 as you can talk to as many people as you can, shake as many people's hands

00;21;38;23 - 00;21;43;03 as you can, build those relationships and years and years before we need them. 00;21;43;03 - 00;21;47;19 Because the the biggest thing that we see in the data turning people out

00;21;47;19 - 00;21;52;08 against government organizations is simply their mistrust

00;21;52;08 - 00;21;53;20 and lack of communication,

00;21;53;20 - 00;21;55;21 lack of understanding with those government organizations.

00;21;56;17 - 00;22;01;27 Every time we've had a library and library director or a library doing

00;22;01;27 - 00;22;05;23 a very good job with public outreach, we don't see these kinds of attacks.

00;22;05;23 - 00;22;07;08 We see them winning campaigns.

00;22;07;08 - 00;22;08;27 We see them winning elections.

00;22;08;27 - 00;22;12;28 We see them being well-funded over and over and over again.

00;22;13;00 - 00;22;15;18 That is the hard work of funding our libraries. 00;22;15;18 - 00;22;16;11 You know,

00;22;16;17 - 00;22;19;00 if it means that you have to make that hard decision

00;22;19;00 - 00;22;22;16 of, you know, maybe we have one last story time a week this year

00;22;22;23 - 00;22;27;09 so that we can go to one new community event every week this year,

00;22;27;18 - 00;22;29;26 so that next year we can we can have you know,

00;22;30;04 - 00;22;32;16 we'll have the funding for three more storytimes a year.

00;22;32;27 - 00;22;34;13 Maybe that's a decision you make.

00;22;34;13 - 00;22;36;21 You know, maybe we we cut back on

00;22;38;27 - 00;22;39;29 some of the things that we're paying

00;22;39;29 - 00;22;43;15 for to give us the resources to ensure that we can pay for more later. 00;22;43;27 - 00;22;46;22 I mean, that's that's going to be a difficult decision for a lot of people.

00;22;46;22 - 00;22;49;19 That's going to be a hard pill to swallow.

00;22;50;02 - 00;22;53;14 But honestly, we need to rethink the way

00;22;53;14 - 00;22;56;25 that we are budgeting and allocating our staff time and resources

00;22;57;06 - 00;23;00;19 for the future success of our organizations.

00;23;01;18 - 00;23;06;13 I wholeheartedly agree and the advocacy and even meeting with elected officials.

00;23;06;13 - 00;23;08;28 And I think one of the things that

00;23;09;08 - 00;23;11;09 we are lucky to have

00;23;11;09 - 00;23;15;02 and in the state of Michigan is kind of bipartisan support for libraries.

00;23;15;02 - 00;23;19;08 And so it is not kind of one party or the other supporting libraries.

00;23;19;08 - 00;23;20;21 We have strong advocates

00;23;20;21 - 00;23;24;19 and Republican Party and strong advocates in the Democratic Party as well, too.

00;23;24;22 - 00;23;29;01 So I think it's very important to to meet with those elected officials

00;23;29;01 - 00;23;31;18 and tell your story about the library as well, too.

00;23;31;19 - 00;23;32;01 Yeah.

00;23;32;17 - 00;23;38;01 Well, I mean, that also kind of I think, brings up

00;23;39;15 - 00;23;41;15 an interesting point.

00;23;41;15 - 00;23;44;29 Libraries aren't a partizan issue.

00;23;45;17 - 00;23;48;09 You see support from the right and the left of politics all the time.

00;23;48;25 - 00;23;53;14 And what and and the thing that influences that is the language that we use

00;23;53;14 - 00;23;58;13 to describe our work, know we're reaching a Tower of Babel moment

00;23;58;13 - 00;23;59;14 in American society

00;23;59;14 - 00;23;59;28 where the right

00;23;59;28 - 00;24;01;11 but can't even talk to each other

00;24;01;11 - 00;24;03;16 because they're not even speaking the same language anymore.

00;24;04;01 - 00;24;06;10 I think that is very terrifying.

00;24;06;10 - 00;24;07;25 But when you look at the library

00;24;07;25 - 00;24;11;22 industry, 78% of librarians are registered on the progressive side of politics.

00;24;12;02 - 00;24;14;09 And what that means is that we've created a progressive

00;24;16;12 - 00;24;18;20 a progressive language around libraries,

00;24;19;00 - 00;24;23;10 even though libraries are fundamentally very conservative organizations,

00;24;23;10 - 00;24;27;01 you know, that we're very even Christian oriented organizations

00;24;27;01 - 00;24;30;00 like we hear all this old libraries don't have Bibles, they hate Christianity.

00;24;30;11 - 00;24;33;14 But when you look at the Dewey Decimal System, the system that classifies

00;24;33;26 - 00;24;37;16 all knowledge in human history, 10% or nearly

00;24;37;16 - 00;24;41;09 10% of it is dedicated to just Christianity.

00;24;41;19 - 00;24;43;23 Only 1% of it is dedicated

00;24;44;01 - 00;24;48;17 to all the other 4000 religions that have existed on the planet. 1%,

00;24;49;17 - 00;24;50;02 you know,

00;24;50;02 - 00;24;53;02 if we're if we're indoctrinating anything is

00;24;53;02 - 00;24;55;23 Christianity know

00;24;56;09 - 00;25;00;15 we were we're we're etched into

00;25;00;15 - 00;25;04;06 the bedrock of American society by our founding fathers.

00;25;04;16 - 00;25;07;06 We are a long standing institution.

00;25;07;27 - 00;25;13;10 We are hand out a hand up, not a handout organization.

00;25;13;20 - 00;25;15;26 But the way we talk about it is a lot of handouts.

00;25;15;26 - 00;25;19;09 Like the big example that always has have is if my

00;25;19;14 - 00;25;22;15 if I tell my dad, I'm not going to ask who we voted for.

00;25;22;15 - 00;25;26;25 X I'm pretty sure I know, but if I ask my dad or if I tell my dad,

00;25;27;10 - 00;25;30;24 you know, we are helping connect poor people to government services.

00;25;30;24 - 00;25;32;19 He will go ballistic. Right.

00;25;32;19 - 00;25;35;23 But if I tell my dad that I'm helping poor people pull themselves up

00;25;35;23 - 00;25;38;20 by their bootstraps and get back to work, he's all on board.

00;25;38;23 - 00;25;39;15 Yeah.

00;25;39;15 - 00;25;43;00 Either way, I'm doing the exact same work in my library.

00;25;43;08 - 00;25;44;20 That doesn't change my values.

00;25;44;20 - 00;25;46;07 That doesn't change the value of the libraries.

00;25;46;07 - 00;25;48;14 That doesn't change my day to day work in the library.

00;25;48;14 - 00;25;51;27 It just changes the language that I'm using to describe my work in the library.

00;25;52;19 - 00;25;56;10 And I think we really need to get serious about understanding how to talk

00;25;56;16 - 00;26;01;00 about libraries in language that crosses the political spectrum. 00;26;01;12 - 00;26;05;27 I wholeheartedly agree and Patrick, we talked about some pretty heavy topics

00;26;05;27 - 00;26;06;05 here.

00;26;06;05 - 00;26;09;17 And although your recommendations might be heavy or they might be light,

00;26;09;25 - 00;26;11;22 we always end with a library type question.

00;26;11;22 - 00;26;15;26 And so do you have any titles that you're reading, you're watching

00;26;15;26 - 00;26;17;11 or you're listening to that you would recommend?

00;26;17;11 - 00;26;19;22 So these can be recreational. Reads, they can work.

00;26;19;22 - 00;26;20;26 Related reads.

00;26;20;26 - 00;26;23;26 Anything that you do to say unwind after work.

00;26;23;26 - 00;26;28;14 So, you know, 00;26;28;17 - 00;26;32;17 what I do is I watch Gardener's World with Monty, Don, John, love it. Yes,

00;26;34;20 - 00;26;36;08 I'm a big gardener, but

00;26;36;08 - 00;26;39;20 I mean, I haven't

00;26;39;20 - 00;26;42;10 read for fun in so long,

00;26;43;24 - 00;26;45;24 possibly telling you.

00;26;45;24 - 00;26;48;25 Unfortunately.

00;26;48;25 - 00;26;49;13 Yeah.

00;26;49;13 - 00;26;52;29 My favorite book that I'll tell you is don't tell my my work in the oil wells.

00;26;52;29 - 00;26;56;20 (Don’t Tell My Mom I Work On the Oil Rigs) It's really funny book

00;26;56;21 - 00;27;00;24 so if you're looking for a very light funny book, I recommend that.

00;27;01;22 - 00;27;03;14 It's great, great recommendations. 00;27;03;14 - 00;27;07;27 So Patrick, thank you again so much for joining us for CADL Cast,

00;27;07;27 - 00;27;11;20 it was it was a wonderful discussion and also hopefully eye

00;27;11;20 - 00;27;17;04 opening for our listeners as well to kind of libraries are very complex

00;27;17;04 - 00;27;20;26 institutes and I think we're kind of viewed very simple on the front of it.

00;27;20;26 - 00;27;22;14 But once you kind of look at our funding,

00;27;22;14 - 00;27;25;21 look at our makeup and look at kind of the current political climate

00;27;25;21 - 00;27;28;21 that we're dealing with, it's very complex issues that we're dealing with.

00;27;29;00 - 00;27;29;27 Absolutely.

00;27;29;27 - 00;27;34;05 And this episode with Patrick from the political director

00;27;34;05 - 00;27;38;02 of Every Library is a special two part podcast 00;27;38;08 - 00;27;42;07 where we also had another episode with the board president from Patmos

00;27;42;07 - 00;27;44;04 Library on the west side of State, Michigan.

00;27;44;04 - 00;27;44;17 Larry Walton

00;27;44;17 - 00;27;47;12 And so I encourage you to listen to not only this episode,

00;27;47;12 - 00;27;51;02 but that other episode as well too, and hear their story about the,

00;27;51;12 - 00;27;54;24 the issues that they're going through trying to get their library millage

00;27;54;26 - 00;27;55;06 renewed.

00;27;55;06 - 00;27;57;29 As always, thank you so much for listening to the CADL Cast.

00;27;58;11 - 00;28;00;06 Don't miss another great interview.

00;28;00;06 - 00;28;03;01 Subscribe to the CADL Cast podcast and share it 00;28;03;01 - 00;28;06;13 with a friend.

00;28;06;13 - 00;28;07;17 Hey, it's TV in the morning

00;28;07;17 - 00;28;11;18 with a weekly download from Capital Area District Libraries.

00;28;11;22 - 00;28;15;04 This week's title is One Life by Megan Rapinoe.

00;28;15;04 - 00;28;15;17 The U.S.

00;28;15;17 - 00;28;19;21 Women's National Soccer Team, forward Olympian and social justice activist

00;28;19;26 - 00;28;24;14 presents her story from childhood to pro soccer to the fallout from supporting

00;28;24;14 - 00;28;27;04 Colin Kaepernick and the fight for equal pay.

00;28;27;14 - 00;28;33;01 To stream or download this or other featured titles, just visit the cadl.org/dede

00;28;34;06 - 00;28;37;05 stats 90 to 1

00;28;37;05 - 00;28;40;11 on an on.