1 00:00:00,810 --> 00:00:03,780 Jeremy Pang: We're in the basement. Depends how honest you 2 00:00:03,780 --> 00:00:06,330 want me to be really, but that used to be called The Rat 3 00:00:06,330 --> 00:00:09,930 cupboard. And the reason for that is because when we first 4 00:00:09,930 --> 00:00:14,910 came in, there was a family of rats who lived in this, what 5 00:00:14,910 --> 00:00:17,490 used to be an old accountants office. 6 00:00:18,060 --> 00:00:22,890 Lucy Dearlove: This is Lecker. I'm Lucy Dearlove. Learning to 7 00:00:22,890 --> 00:00:26,550 cook is such an interesting thing. To me. This is often 8 00:00:26,550 --> 00:00:29,790 something I think about when I'm on TikTok, as countless cooking 9 00:00:29,790 --> 00:00:34,950 videos pop up on my FYP because never before in history have we 10 00:00:34,950 --> 00:00:39,360 had such frictionless access to videos of people cooking things. 11 00:00:39,900 --> 00:00:43,650 And it seems really logical to learn how to cook this way 12 00:00:43,650 --> 00:00:47,310 because cooking is such a physical activity. But when you 13 00:00:47,310 --> 00:00:51,180 consider cooking schools, which again, makes sense to learn this 14 00:00:51,180 --> 00:00:54,780 way, because it's such a physical thing...cooking schools 15 00:00:54,810 --> 00:00:59,250 tend to be quite serious and formal. In my mind, I always 16 00:00:59,250 --> 00:01:02,730 have a picture of stainless steel surfaces and industrial 17 00:01:02,730 --> 00:01:06,510 appliances. But what about a different kind of cooking 18 00:01:06,510 --> 00:01:10,650 school? One intended to try and meet people where they are in 19 00:01:10,650 --> 00:01:14,790 terms of their skills, their knowledge, and their kitchens. 20 00:01:15,960 --> 00:01:19,890 This is Jeremy Pang, who founded the School of Wok 21 00:01:20,310 --> 00:01:23,190 Jeremy Pang: In the first week of us opening the f...one of the 22 00:01:23,190 --> 00:01:26,850 first ever customers we had was our landlords. And it was in 23 00:01:26,850 --> 00:01:32,910 their class that we saw a lovely friendly creature sort of run 24 00:01:32,910 --> 00:01:38,070 past the surveyor... and I didn't tell her because 25 00:01:38,160 --> 00:01:42,090 obviously our customers... so we distracted her with the 26 00:01:42,090 --> 00:01:46,320 beautiful food and then they had a lovely time and then the day 27 00:01:46,320 --> 00:01:50,730 after I sent her an email I said can you please sort this out, 28 00:01:50,730 --> 00:01:54,540 we've got a problem. So it's now not the rat cupboard. Anyway! 29 00:01:54,540 --> 00:01:56,370 Lucy Dearlove: I love that that's what you started with 30 00:02:00,920 --> 00:02:01,880 Jeremy Pang: This is...Adrienne's going 31 00:02:01,970 --> 00:02:09,050 like...what the. Right. Anyway, let's get over the rat story. 32 00:02:09,740 --> 00:02:10,730 Welcome to School of Wok. 33 00:02:11,960 --> 00:02:14,360 Lucy Dearlove: On this episode, I'm handing over the hosting to 34 00:02:14,450 --> 00:02:17,450 my friend and collaborator, the food writer, Adrienne Katz 35 00:02:17,450 --> 00:02:20,660 Kennedy. Adrienne and I headed down to the school of work 36 00:02:20,660 --> 00:02:24,680 together, so she could interview Jez, an old friend of hers. 37 00:02:25,530 --> 00:02:32,100 Adrienne Katz Kennedy: I met Jez about 12 years ago or so. I was 38 00:02:32,100 --> 00:02:37,710 managing a cookery school in Marylebone. And he and his 39 00:02:37,710 --> 00:02:41,910 business partner walked in looking for some place to hire 40 00:02:41,910 --> 00:02:43,230 to do some cookery classes. 41 00:02:43,260 --> 00:02:45,210 Lucy Dearlove: Right. And then he poached you. 42 00:02:45,480 --> 00:02:47,820 Adrienne Katz Kennedy: And then he poached me. It's great. 43 00:02:49,920 --> 00:02:53,610 Jeremy Pang: The concept at the beginning was very much...I can 44 00:02:53,610 --> 00:02:57,180 teach you, anyone in three hours, you can pick three 45 00:02:57,180 --> 00:03:01,110 dishes, any food that you've ever eaten in a Chinese 46 00:03:01,110 --> 00:03:05,100 restaurant, I'll teach you how to cook, which was quite a big 47 00:03:05,250 --> 00:03:08,790 concept. Because I mean, I couldn't cook any, like every 48 00:03:08,790 --> 00:03:12,030 single dish that every single Chinese restaurant in the UK has 49 00:03:12,030 --> 00:03:13,560 ever offered. I didn't know... 50 00:03:13,560 --> 00:03:14,730 Adrienne Katz Kennedy: That's asking a lot from you! 51 00:03:16,770 --> 00:03:19,740 Jeremy Pang: Yeah, and people did! Most people will not you 52 00:03:19,740 --> 00:03:22,560 know, they'd ask for like, an egg fried rice, and sweet and 53 00:03:22,560 --> 00:03:25,830 sour pork and, and maybe a crispy chili beef or something 54 00:03:25,830 --> 00:03:28,260 like that. But and to be fair, I've never even cooked a crispy 55 00:03:28,260 --> 00:03:31,530 chili beef in my life before opening School of Wok. But I 56 00:03:31,530 --> 00:03:35,250 knew, like because of my upbringing, my dad and my, my 57 00:03:35,250 --> 00:03:38,400 dad was definitely more of the wok sort of like sort of Chef 58 00:03:38,400 --> 00:03:41,730 and he at home. And, you know, I learned a lot from him growing 59 00:03:41,730 --> 00:03:45,480 up. Not that he taught me, he just just showed me...he was 60 00:03:45,480 --> 00:03:50,310 just like, watch son, watch. And you'll learn. Very quickly after 61 00:03:50,310 --> 00:03:55,680 opening in 2009 and teaching sort of friends of friends. I 62 00:03:55,680 --> 00:04:03,120 think it took about six months for most of my customers...55% 63 00:04:03,150 --> 00:04:05,520 of the customers after six months are coming from Google 64 00:04:05,700 --> 00:04:09,660 searching for Chinese cooking lessons. In London. 65 00:04:10,140 --> 00:04:13,140 Adrienne Katz Kennedy: There was quite a thirst for home cooking 66 00:04:13,170 --> 00:04:16,680 at that time thought, with recession and kind of moving 67 00:04:16,680 --> 00:04:20,040 away from restaurant entertaining and to home 68 00:04:20,040 --> 00:04:20,880 entertaining. 69 00:04:20,940 --> 00:04:21,810 Jeremy Pang: It was, it was 70 00:04:21,810 --> 00:04:23,730 Adrienne Katz Kennedy: Sounds like it was serendipitous. 71 00:04:23,780 --> 00:04:25,670 Jeremy Pang: I think you're right. I think the recession 72 00:04:25,670 --> 00:04:29,900 helped me start this business, which is a weird thing to think 73 00:04:29,900 --> 00:04:33,290 about. You know, I was like 25...what do I do? I'd lost my 74 00:04:33,290 --> 00:04:37,610 job on the day of my dad's burial and then came back home 75 00:04:37,820 --> 00:04:42,350 to a recession...couldn't find a job in corporate again. I was in 76 00:04:42,350 --> 00:04:46,250 marketing and PR, marketing mainly. You know, my my wife 77 00:04:46,250 --> 00:04:48,680 basically said to me, Well, why don't you teach cooking and I 78 00:04:48,800 --> 00:04:53,540 that's how it started. And then now like looking, what, 13 years 79 00:04:53,540 --> 00:04:56,240 back? I think the concept of School Of Wok hasn't changed 80 00:04:56,240 --> 00:04:59,990 that much. But what we did when we stepped foot in here was we 81 00:04:59,990 --> 00:05:03,620 got rid of the 'we'll teach you anything, it's your choice'. It 82 00:05:03,620 --> 00:05:06,200 was more like no, we have to build menus into each one of the 83 00:05:06,200 --> 00:05:10,160 classes. Because otherwise it was just not manageable. If 84 00:05:10,160 --> 00:05:11,960 everyone wants to learn something completely different 85 00:05:11,960 --> 00:05:16,010 in the same class, it's just not manageable at all. At that time, 86 00:05:16,070 --> 00:05:20,060 it was mainly Chinese still. But what we did was we split them at 87 00:05:20,060 --> 00:05:24,620 the very beginning, because we'd been to lots of Western cooking 88 00:05:24,620 --> 00:05:29,780 classes. We split them like they did. And that was like knife 89 00:05:29,780 --> 00:05:34,700 skills or wok skills or you know, but very quickly, we 90 00:05:34,700 --> 00:05:39,650 realized that didn't work for us that actually, we had to teach 91 00:05:39,680 --> 00:05:43,250 every class like you were cooking a normal meal at home. 92 00:05:43,730 --> 00:05:46,250 Like you wouldn't ever just focus at home on your knife 93 00:05:46,250 --> 00:05:50,570 skills, especially with Asian cooking you're like No, every, 94 00:05:51,020 --> 00:05:54,020 every class needs knife skills. Yeah, that's important, you 95 00:05:54,020 --> 00:05:57,890 know? So the first half an hour, every class now - and the format 96 00:05:57,890 --> 00:06:01,160 changed at that point in the first year I'd say - every half 97 00:06:01,160 --> 00:06:04,520 an hour of every class was... here, this is how you use a 98 00:06:04,520 --> 00:06:07,580 cleaver. Yeah, these are the reasons why a cleaver's so much 99 00:06:07,580 --> 00:06:11,570 more versatile in in many ways to a 20 centimetre chef's knife. 100 00:06:11,570 --> 00:06:15,080 Yeah. And then you move on to like, you're like your 101 00:06:15,080 --> 00:06:18,440 preparation is done. Let's make some lovely dumplings or 102 00:06:18,440 --> 00:06:22,550 whatever. And you get that sort of nice therapeutic feeling of 103 00:06:22,580 --> 00:06:25,790 like making something. It's like an immediate reward when you've 104 00:06:25,790 --> 00:06:28,010 made something you've never made before. And it looks beautiful 105 00:06:28,010 --> 00:06:30,770 in front of you. Yeah. And then you go into wok cooking and you 106 00:06:30,770 --> 00:06:34,730 get your adrenaline rush. Yeah. So over time, it changed to 107 00:06:34,730 --> 00:06:40,280 like, more like cuisine based. And we started to introduce more 108 00:06:40,280 --> 00:06:43,820 like Southeast Asian cuisines, you know, and things like that. 109 00:06:44,030 --> 00:06:48,080 And now we teach Chinese...alll Southeast Asian cuisines, 110 00:06:48,350 --> 00:06:53,030 Korean, Japanese, but it's taken us best part of 10 years to be 111 00:06:53,030 --> 00:06:57,230 able to introduce what I would say the UK mass audience would 112 00:06:57,230 --> 00:07:03,740 deem as newer cuisines here. And even then, most people, like, 113 00:07:04,040 --> 00:07:08,300 don't really know, like the...anything out of outside of 114 00:07:08,600 --> 00:07:11,960 a handful of most popular dishes from those places. Yeah, what 115 00:07:11,960 --> 00:07:16,400 we're teaching is like, not necessarily like how to cook one 116 00:07:16,430 --> 00:07:19,250 dish, like dish by dish of course, we do that in the 117 00:07:19,250 --> 00:07:23,420 classes. What we're teaching is more like, why I think Asian 118 00:07:23,540 --> 00:07:27,980 families, most Asian families I know, food is what brings us 119 00:07:27,980 --> 00:07:31,970 together, so and so it's like a cultural, like, a really 120 00:07:31,970 --> 00:07:37,940 positive cultural experience without being too focused on 121 00:07:38,030 --> 00:07:42,950 being Asian. Does that make sense? Yeah, I think that was 122 00:07:42,950 --> 00:07:45,080 important to me, because I mean, I was brought up at the best of 123 00:07:45,080 --> 00:07:49,130 both worlds. So but the best part of the Asian culture that I 124 00:07:49,130 --> 00:07:54,290 was brought up in was definitely the food and feasts that we had 125 00:07:54,290 --> 00:07:58,130 as a family. So to bring that to the world in a different way 126 00:07:58,130 --> 00:08:01,100 that that...I think that's why we've we've stayed here, other 127 00:08:01,100 --> 00:08:03,680 than the name being super cool. We've stayed there because we've 128 00:08:03,680 --> 00:08:05,600 got quite a unique way of delivering that. 129 00:08:07,010 --> 00:08:09,320 Adrienne Katz Kennedy: The rat cupboard is now completely 130 00:08:09,320 --> 00:08:14,060 sealed up, totally safe and is in fact used as a cloakroom. 131 00:08:15,080 --> 00:08:19,160 School of Wok is close to the heart of Covent Garden, near 132 00:08:19,160 --> 00:08:23,120 Chinatown, on a quiet little alleyway that you wouldn't know 133 00:08:23,120 --> 00:08:26,360 existed if you weren't going there for a particular purpose. 134 00:08:26,390 --> 00:08:28,820 Jeremy Pang: It's just behind Coutts bank is almost like a 135 00:08:28,820 --> 00:08:33,170 lost, lost Street and no one really knows it. It's here. And 136 00:08:33,170 --> 00:08:36,440 it's never really changed that way. But there are some nice 137 00:08:36,440 --> 00:08:39,740 like you know, the Harp, the pub down the road has been here for 138 00:08:40,310 --> 00:08:42,800 God knows how long. It was when we first started owned by a 139 00:08:42,800 --> 00:08:46,280 lovely old Irish lady who owned it for many, many years. And 140 00:08:46,310 --> 00:08:48,530 it's a little sort of community almost, yeah. 141 00:08:48,270 --> 00:08:51,000 Adrienne Katz Kennedy: When Jez and his business partner Nev 142 00:08:51,000 --> 00:08:54,960 first went to view the school it was an accountants office. And 143 00:08:54,990 --> 00:08:59,490 the first room you walked into was just set up into little 144 00:08:59,490 --> 00:09:03,870 cubbies. So now it's the shopfront...you walk in, it's 145 00:09:03,870 --> 00:09:08,340 where classes will do their preparations, all of their knife 146 00:09:08,340 --> 00:09:11,850 skills. And then at the end, the tables are flipped around. So 147 00:09:11,850 --> 00:09:14,100 it's where everyone can enjoy their meal together at the end 148 00:09:14,100 --> 00:09:18,510 of the class. So at the back of the space, you have the kitchen, 149 00:09:18,570 --> 00:09:23,100 where the class will go into towards the end of the three 150 00:09:23,100 --> 00:09:28,020 hour period to watch the demonstration and then do all of 151 00:09:28,020 --> 00:09:28,860 the wok cooking 152 00:09:28,920 --> 00:09:32,340 Jeremy Pang: When we got through to this back kitchen...this is 153 00:09:32,340 --> 00:09:35,850 when both Nev and I, my business partner and I were quite 154 00:09:35,850 --> 00:09:41,280 excited, I would say because this space was - in terms of an 155 00:09:41,280 --> 00:09:46,230 empty shell - how it currently feels. And so we came in here 156 00:09:46,230 --> 00:09:50,490 and they actually already had the skylights, I think...there's 157 00:09:50,490 --> 00:09:53,010 a lot of light that comes in here. Even though we're in 158 00:09:53,010 --> 00:09:56,700 central London, and we're surrounded by buildings. We get 159 00:09:56,700 --> 00:10:00,210 this sort of flood of light in here natural light and When we 160 00:10:00,210 --> 00:10:02,460 came in here we thought Oh yeah, we can definitely build a 161 00:10:02,460 --> 00:10:05,580 kitchen into here. And that's when we started thinking okay, 162 00:10:05,580 --> 00:10:10,050 this is more real than not. The basement downstairs was hard to 163 00:10:10,050 --> 00:10:14,130 figure out. But we sort of worked the design of school of 164 00:10:14,130 --> 00:10:19,710 wok backwards from this back kitchen. It's a weird shape, but 165 00:10:19,710 --> 00:10:23,610 it does, it does work and now, this is where we do a lot of 166 00:10:23,610 --> 00:10:27,420 filming for the school of wok YouTube channel. Of course, we 167 00:10:27,420 --> 00:10:31,170 need the space for a lot of pots and pans. And, yeah, you know, 168 00:10:31,170 --> 00:10:34,590 all the woks are under and like in the cupboards, you know, like 169 00:10:34,590 --> 00:10:37,380 but you can see woks dotted around everywhere and, you know, 170 00:10:37,380 --> 00:10:39,900 steam baskets, like all over the place. 171 00:10:39,000 --> 00:10:52,710 Adrienne Katz Kennedy: The School of Wok is quite different 172 00:10:52,740 --> 00:10:56,220 than a lot of other professional or even recreational cookery 173 00:10:56,220 --> 00:11:01,740 schools in that it doesn't feel overwhelming. There's no big 174 00:11:01,800 --> 00:11:05,760 shiny appliances. For the most part, it's not a professional 175 00:11:05,760 --> 00:11:10,440 kitchen, it feels a lot more like a domestic space. The whole 176 00:11:10,440 --> 00:11:15,780 school of wok approach and Jez's approach is to make it relaxed, 177 00:11:15,780 --> 00:11:20,040 to make cooking fun, rather than task oriented. So I think the 178 00:11:20,040 --> 00:11:25,110 reason for the school being set up the way it is, is to make 179 00:11:25,140 --> 00:11:30,270 customers feel comfortable. So they're less intimidated by the 180 00:11:30,570 --> 00:11:32,040 skills that they're going to learn. 181 00:11:32,000 --> 00:11:37,010 Jeremy Pang: What we wanted was an open space where every pod or 182 00:11:37,010 --> 00:11:42,680 kitchen pod felt like a, like a flat kitchen, like you don't 183 00:11:42,860 --> 00:11:46,940 require huge amounts of space to be able to cook beautifully, 184 00:11:47,270 --> 00:11:51,200 like good home food, home cooked food here. I mean, all the way 185 00:11:51,200 --> 00:11:56,600 round there's sort of single, or what we call like domino hubs, 186 00:11:56,660 --> 00:12:00,170 or induction hubs, because they literally are like a domino 187 00:12:00,170 --> 00:12:04,880 piece dotted around the outside of the kitchen. In the middle of 188 00:12:04,880 --> 00:12:10,250 the kitchen, there's an island with a...one...the only gas hub 189 00:12:10,520 --> 00:12:14,570 in school of wok. And then two domino induction hubs either 190 00:12:14,570 --> 00:12:19,430 side, I've got one gas wok hob in there, that's mainly for use 191 00:12:19,430 --> 00:12:23,000 on the YouTube channel. So that I've got a bit of versatility, 192 00:12:23,000 --> 00:12:25,280 but the whole concept with school of wok was I started 193 00:12:25,280 --> 00:12:29,570 teaching people in their own homes, how to cook Chinese food, 194 00:12:29,900 --> 00:12:32,180 when you teach in people's homes, you don't have a choice 195 00:12:32,180 --> 00:12:36,200 of what hob you have, so... and so it was either. I mean, I 196 00:12:36,200 --> 00:12:40,640 remember, Hannah, who's one of our staff has been a longtime 197 00:12:40,640 --> 00:12:44,570 her dad was one of my first ever customers. And they had in their 198 00:12:44,570 --> 00:12:49,730 old kitchen a ceramic hob, you know, old school 1970s style 199 00:12:49,730 --> 00:12:54,530 ceramic hob, you know, we cooked...like, all the stuff 200 00:12:54,530 --> 00:12:59,030 that we teach here today, we were cooking on that hob. And we 201 00:12:59,030 --> 00:13:04,070 worked out how, yeah. I am not a believer of like, you know, the 202 00:13:04,070 --> 00:13:07,490 traditional is always best, I think, I think it's a case of 203 00:13:07,490 --> 00:13:10,160 like, well, no, you use what you got. And you work it out from 204 00:13:10,160 --> 00:13:13,760 there. And first, when we put induction hobs into here, a lot 205 00:13:13,760 --> 00:13:16,730 of people don't how can you ever walk school without gas, a gas 206 00:13:16,730 --> 00:13:19,130 feed, we actually kept off the gasoline, we don't have a gas 207 00:13:19,130 --> 00:13:22,160 feed today, we just have a butane gas cylinder under this 208 00:13:22,160 --> 00:13:26,090 hob for that because because we capped off the gas feed quite 209 00:13:26,090 --> 00:13:30,350 confidently, yeah. For various reasons...commercially. We were 210 00:13:30,350 --> 00:13:35,060 at that point, we made a link with one of our sponsors who 211 00:13:35,060 --> 00:13:39,110 were really like it's sort of at the forefront of induction 212 00:13:39,110 --> 00:13:43,190 technology. And they said, Can you cook this stuff on induction 213 00:13:43,190 --> 00:13:46,160 and I said, Give me heat any type of heat and you can cook 214 00:13:46,160 --> 00:13:48,890 it. But also we thought actually no, it's a nice thing because 215 00:13:48,890 --> 00:13:52,700 it's modern, it's easy to clean down. But it's also we felt that 216 00:13:52,790 --> 00:13:56,450 most like modern like flats these days built with either 217 00:13:56,450 --> 00:14:00,590 electric or induction hubs. And so if we couldn't teach people 218 00:14:00,980 --> 00:14:06,440 how to use their own equipment, then we wouldn't succeed. Like 219 00:14:06,440 --> 00:14:08,240 there was a lot of cookery schools we used to dot around 220 00:14:08,240 --> 00:14:12,680 all of them before we opened here that had quite commercial 221 00:14:12,680 --> 00:14:16,760 industrial kitchens spaces that they were doing cooking classes 222 00:14:16,760 --> 00:14:22,100 in. Actually, we knew that customers going to those cook 223 00:14:22,100 --> 00:14:26,300 schools were quite daunted by standing it just even standing 224 00:14:26,300 --> 00:14:29,510 in an industrial kitchen environment and so we wanted 225 00:14:29,510 --> 00:14:33,830 this space to be as close to home as possible. And that has 226 00:14:33,830 --> 00:14:37,400 worked and that has never changed like we've always had 227 00:14:37,400 --> 00:14:40,970 that feeling of of whatever restrictions whether you feel 228 00:14:40,970 --> 00:14:44,600 may be at home you still have here but we're showing you that 229 00:14:44,600 --> 00:14:46,640 they're not really restrictions you can cook what you want as 230 00:14:46,640 --> 00:14:49,940 long as you've got a bit of heat here because once you can 231 00:14:49,940 --> 00:14:52,460 control heat and know how to control heat. You can you can 232 00:14:52,460 --> 00:14:53,420 cook on anything, yeah. 233 00:14:58,790 --> 00:15:02,300 The school of wok way for Pretty much like hands on cooking. So 234 00:15:02,660 --> 00:15:06,080 as much as possible, we explain little things here or there, or 235 00:15:06,080 --> 00:15:08,780 we give people like tips and tricks and how to be more 236 00:15:08,780 --> 00:15:11,780 confident on the walk, or how to get the best out cooking their 237 00:15:11,780 --> 00:15:15,350 Thai curries or whatever it might be. But like where 238 00:15:15,350 --> 00:15:18,620 possible, we'll, we'll take a guinea pig to demonstrate stuff 239 00:15:18,830 --> 00:15:23,300 from the group of customers, because that I believe, makes 240 00:15:23,540 --> 00:15:26,240 the whole group then much more confident that they can do 241 00:15:26,240 --> 00:15:31,220 themselves. When customers first walk in most of the time, most 242 00:15:31,220 --> 00:15:33,620 of the time, they don't know each other, in the first 10, 15 243 00:15:33,620 --> 00:15:37,850 minutes, they can be quite quiet, and not really sort of 244 00:15:37,880 --> 00:15:40,550 get on like, you know, they're just a bit sort of scared of 245 00:15:40,550 --> 00:15:44,270 talking to each other. But but then the chef gets them 246 00:15:44,270 --> 00:15:47,720 involved, they start chopping they're really concentrating on 247 00:15:47,720 --> 00:15:50,780 not chopping their fingers off, you know, and then once they've 248 00:15:50,780 --> 00:15:55,130 gotten past the garlic, ginger and spring onion, then they're 249 00:15:55,130 --> 00:15:56,960 usually pretty comfortable and they start chatting to each 250 00:15:56,960 --> 00:16:01,220 other. You know, and then by that point out there when the 251 00:16:01,220 --> 00:16:03,980 prep preparing, it's actually quite, it's almost quite Zen in 252 00:16:03,980 --> 00:16:06,680 this in the sense it's quite, especially the public classes 253 00:16:06,680 --> 00:16:10,010 very relaxed, and but also everyone's really eager to 254 00:16:10,010 --> 00:16:14,540 learn, I'd say then it takes about, what, 45 minutes an hour 255 00:16:14,540 --> 00:16:17,480 or so at least before they might have to come in here and cook a 256 00:16:17,480 --> 00:16:20,270 curry or get a curry started. When they come in here they're 257 00:16:20,270 --> 00:16:22,430 like oh yeah, let's let's get cooking something, they've got 258 00:16:22,430 --> 00:16:25,190 that feeling. And then their chef, usually because of our 259 00:16:25,370 --> 00:16:29,270 style of cooking, like Asian cooking, there's a lot of it can 260 00:16:29,270 --> 00:16:33,080 be quite theatrical, in many senses. So and so they enjoy 261 00:16:33,080 --> 00:16:36,320 that, you know, the wok demonstrations, or even like 262 00:16:36,350 --> 00:16:40,190 intricacies of like how to get the best flavour out of a curry 263 00:16:40,190 --> 00:16:43,910 paste, you know, by sort of slowly frying it off. And, you 264 00:16:43,910 --> 00:16:45,980 know, all that sort of stuff is interesting, isn't it? 265 00:16:45,980 --> 00:16:48,590 Interesting, yeah. And that's part of the love of food, enjoy 266 00:16:48,590 --> 00:16:51,080 it, like, you know, some things are really quick, some things is 267 00:16:51,110 --> 00:16:54,500 much slower. And the slower things, you know, you enjoy 268 00:16:54,500 --> 00:16:57,350 that, you know, you give it that love and the quicker things you 269 00:16:57,350 --> 00:16:58,550 get that adrenaline rush, 270 00:16:58,640 --> 00:17:00,620 Adrienne Katz Kennedy: As Jez was talking about the 271 00:17:00,650 --> 00:17:06,320 physicality and the joy you get from cooking in person, I was 272 00:17:06,320 --> 00:17:10,310 wondering how he helped to translate that to the cookbooks 273 00:17:10,310 --> 00:17:10,910 he writes. 274 00:17:11,200 --> 00:17:14,650 Jeremy Pang: Cooking is extremely, like physical, 275 00:17:14,800 --> 00:17:18,880 everything is done by like hand eye coordination. And you know, 276 00:17:18,880 --> 00:17:23,410 muscle memory, the best place to do it is actually come in and 277 00:17:23,410 --> 00:17:28,660 take a class like, but even even watching a Cooking, cooking 278 00:17:28,660 --> 00:17:33,520 demonstration. Like is, is perhaps you're taking more in 279 00:17:33,520 --> 00:17:36,520 that 20 minutes than you might take in from reading the whole 280 00:17:36,520 --> 00:17:41,350 introduction to my book, you know, yeah, but but the what the 281 00:17:41,440 --> 00:17:46,330 books do is is they sort of they're sort of more prolonged 282 00:17:46,330 --> 00:17:50,980 effect of learning, you can go back to it. You can go into like 283 00:17:51,010 --> 00:17:55,000 pages that you've missed, or you might not remember everything 284 00:17:55,000 --> 00:17:57,940 that we've taught you in the class. That's why we think...we 285 00:17:57,940 --> 00:18:01,060 have things like the wok clock, because whether it's illustrated 286 00:18:01,060 --> 00:18:04,510 in a book or is stand- is sitting right in front of you on 287 00:18:04,510 --> 00:18:11,500 a table. It's very, like it's visually appealing. Like you see 288 00:18:11,500 --> 00:18:14,980 it and you go, Oh, that's so useful! 289 00:18:14,980 --> 00:18:16,540 Adrienne Katz Kennedy: Do you want to explain what a wok clock 290 00:18:16,540 --> 00:18:16,930 is? 291 00:18:16,930 --> 00:18:20,710 Jeremy Pang: Yes, yeah, so. So a wok clock I think I guess I've 292 00:18:20,710 --> 00:18:23,440 become a bit famous for, or school of wok has...it's like 293 00:18:23,470 --> 00:18:28,240 our way of explaining mise en place, but it's, you know, a 294 00:18:28,240 --> 00:18:31,330 round plate, you've got a round, everyone's got round plates at 295 00:18:31,330 --> 00:18:35,200 home. So that's your wok clock. And you start at 12 o'clock with 296 00:18:35,200 --> 00:18:38,650 your first ingredient. And then you go all the way round. So by 297 00:18:38,650 --> 00:18:42,280 the time you've done your 90% of your preparation, all your 298 00:18:42,280 --> 00:18:45,430 chopping and getting your sauces together, anything that you need 299 00:18:45,430 --> 00:18:49,660 to like soak, or cook, pre cook, you know, you've done all of 300 00:18:49,660 --> 00:18:53,020 that, then your recipes right there in front of you. And you 301 00:18:53,020 --> 00:18:55,240 know exactly what needs to go first, second, third, fourth, 302 00:18:55,240 --> 00:18:58,420 fifth. Yeah, that's what a wok clock is and it works a treat, 303 00:18:58,450 --> 00:19:01,960 not just with what cooking but any type of cooking and most 304 00:19:01,960 --> 00:19:05,800 people, most friends I know who who, like you know, read my 305 00:19:05,800 --> 00:19:09,130 recipes or books or whatever, that that's the thing that they 306 00:19:09,130 --> 00:19:11,050 take away is that is the wok clock and they're there...it 307 00:19:11,890 --> 00:19:13,360 just betters their cooking in general. 308 00:19:15,400 --> 00:19:17,530 Adrienne Katz Kennedy: In Jeremy's other cookbooks, while 309 00:19:17,530 --> 00:19:21,490 the wok clock has been included, in his new book, Jeremy Pang's 310 00:19:21,520 --> 00:19:24,970 School of Wok, this is the first time where there is a visual 311 00:19:24,970 --> 00:19:29,680 illustration. It's done by Freya at the Brand New studio, who's 312 00:19:29,680 --> 00:19:31,930 worked with Jeremy on all of his books. 313 00:19:31,000 --> 00:19:37,090 Jeremy Pang: I'll say the title of the dish and then explain the 314 00:19:37,090 --> 00:19:41,050 word clock. Yeah, fine. All right. So we've got a ginger and 315 00:19:41,050 --> 00:19:45,130 spring onion chicken from the School of Wok cookbook...really 316 00:19:45,160 --> 00:19:47,080 starts and finishes with the word clock so you do your 317 00:19:47,080 --> 00:19:50,050 preparation, you know any chopping and things like that in 318 00:19:50,050 --> 00:19:55,240 the first segment at 12 o'clock with spring onion, finely sliced 319 00:19:55,240 --> 00:19:58,930 spring onion, and then moving on for that, next to the spring 320 00:19:58,930 --> 00:20:02,200 onion. We've got some Ginger and Garlic, because I want my spring 321 00:20:02,200 --> 00:20:06,220 onion to go in first before my ginger and garlic to get nicely 322 00:20:06,220 --> 00:20:10,300 seared, get that flavour essence of the spring onion, ginger and 323 00:20:10,300 --> 00:20:13,750 garlic goes in. And then after that on the wok clock you've got 324 00:20:13,750 --> 00:20:18,790 your red onion so your harder vegetables, green peppers, 325 00:20:18,820 --> 00:20:22,660 whatever veggies you want really following on. And then you've 326 00:20:22,660 --> 00:20:26,440 got your chicken, which has been marinated, and that's in the 327 00:20:26,440 --> 00:20:31,870 recipe. So it's like pre marinated meat. After your 328 00:20:31,870 --> 00:20:35,680 harder vegetables, once your chicken's seared, then you've 329 00:20:35,680 --> 00:20:39,070 got the sauce because I always say that your sauce goes last in 330 00:20:39,070 --> 00:20:43,540 a stir fry you have sauce in two places, one in the marinade. And 331 00:20:43,540 --> 00:20:48,010 secondly, in for your actual stir fry sauce. And that sauce 332 00:20:48,010 --> 00:20:51,490 is made up in a little bowl or ramekin last on your wok clock 333 00:20:51,730 --> 00:20:56,350 with some chicken stock, oyster sauce, dark soy shall sing rice 334 00:20:56,350 --> 00:21:00,940 wine, and a bit of sesame oil. And so that can then all get 335 00:21:00,940 --> 00:21:04,780 poured into your stir fry right at the right time. And you don't 336 00:21:04,810 --> 00:21:08,830 hopefully have to go back to the recipe book and make this 337 00:21:08,830 --> 00:21:10,900 beautiful recipe book too messy. 338 00:21:13,120 --> 00:21:17,230 I always say that my job is simplify explanations of 339 00:21:17,230 --> 00:21:19,510 techniques, but not to simplify techniques. 340 00:21:20,920 --> 00:21:21,430 That makes sense! 341 00:21:21,360 --> 00:21:26,430 So if you find something like the wok clock it which for us is 342 00:21:26,430 --> 00:21:30,360 like gold dust because it's it's perfect for that because once 343 00:21:30,360 --> 00:21:34,320 you get used to creating your wok clocks, say you're cooking 344 00:21:34,320 --> 00:21:37,860 four or five completely different dishes in one night, 345 00:21:38,040 --> 00:21:41,880 for a little dinner party. Really, that gets broken down 346 00:21:41,880 --> 00:21:44,190 into four or five plates that you need to wash up at the end. 347 00:21:44,520 --> 00:21:47,970 As opposed to the whole kitchen being an absolute mess. Anyone 348 00:21:47,970 --> 00:21:52,560 who who's like really like uses our sort of teaching takes that 349 00:21:52,560 --> 00:21:55,320 on board like because it's so much easier. It's so much more 350 00:21:55,320 --> 00:21:59,550 pleasurable here, it's there to like visually have visual impact 351 00:21:59,580 --> 00:22:03,900 to go. Okay, now I've cooked two or three recipes from the book, 352 00:22:03,990 --> 00:22:06,720 perhaps I don't even need to read the method, I can just go 353 00:22:06,720 --> 00:22:10,230 straight to the ingredients list. And the wok clock. You 354 00:22:10,230 --> 00:22:13,980 know, know how to cook it. Yeah. Cooking in person is always 355 00:22:14,010 --> 00:22:17,640 better because it's more fun for sure. Yeah. And cooking should 356 00:22:17,640 --> 00:22:22,260 be fun. You know, or it can be a cooking it should be emotional, 357 00:22:22,260 --> 00:22:26,400 isn't it, you know, should you can cook when you're angry. It's 358 00:22:26,400 --> 00:22:30,150 a good time to cook you definitely get a cleaver out not 359 00:22:30,150 --> 00:22:33,210 for the wrong reasons. But like get a cleaver and a chopping 360 00:22:33,210 --> 00:22:36,750 board out and get some ginger and smash it because, like you 361 00:22:36,780 --> 00:22:41,160 that is like therapy there right there in front of you with it 362 00:22:41,160 --> 00:22:44,160 with a bit of ginger. You know, and well at the other day. And I 363 00:22:44,160 --> 00:22:47,160 wasn't last week I wasn't angry. But I was I had a had a 364 00:22:47,160 --> 00:22:51,300 stressful week. But my best friend came over from Miami. And 365 00:22:51,600 --> 00:22:55,890 like on Friday afternoon, I just set aside four hours just to 366 00:22:55,890 --> 00:23:00,570 cook whatever I wanted without a camera. Like without even any 367 00:23:00,570 --> 00:23:03,660 thought or need to take a photo of this beautiful food I was 368 00:23:03,660 --> 00:23:07,440 cooking. And I just put my headphones on put some music on 369 00:23:07,440 --> 00:23:10,890 and I just cooked like I cooked a banquet for like three of us. 370 00:23:11,280 --> 00:23:12,840 I said what do you want to eat and he said Chinese food of 371 00:23:12,840 --> 00:23:15,930 course. And I was like, Okay, fine. I'll cook it but yeah, not 372 00:23:15,960 --> 00:23:20,340 very often do I even cooked like lobster, like, you know, Ginger 373 00:23:20,340 --> 00:23:23,370 and spring onion lobster at home. But I haven't seen him for 374 00:23:23,370 --> 00:23:25,890 five years so and it's enjoyable. 375 00:23:38,050 --> 00:23:41,500 Adrienne Katz Kennedy: Though Jeremy is a chef, he's not a 376 00:23:41,500 --> 00:23:46,180 chef in the restaurant sense. He's a teacher. So he's in a 377 00:23:46,180 --> 00:23:49,540 really unique position for a few different reasons. 378 00:23:50,620 --> 00:23:54,880 From working with you for so long. I felt like at the 379 00:23:54,880 --> 00:23:59,290 beginning there was a much smaller box that you were or the 380 00:23:59,290 --> 00:24:02,740 school was being shoved into, that it was, you were 381 00:24:02,740 --> 00:24:07,360 representing Chinese cookery as a whole or Chinese people as a 382 00:24:07,360 --> 00:24:13,120 whole rather than Jeremy Pang and the School of Wok and all of 383 00:24:13,120 --> 00:24:15,790 the people who have come through the doors and their version of 384 00:24:15,790 --> 00:24:20,800 what Yes, this could be this cuisine has been for them their 385 00:24:20,800 --> 00:24:22,450 influences that kind of thing. 386 00:24:22,510 --> 00:24:26,200 Jeremy Pang: No, you are right. In that sense. I definitely was 387 00:24:26,200 --> 00:24:35,320 shoehorned into my, my background and my my place of 388 00:24:35,350 --> 00:24:38,560 origin, I guess. But 389 00:24:38,560 --> 00:24:39,340 Adrienne Katz Kennedy: Which is here. 390 00:24:39,000 --> 00:24:43,800 Jeremy Pang: But...yeah! you know, I was born in the UK. I 391 00:24:43,800 --> 00:24:46,230 was probably for the first 10 years of my life much more 392 00:24:46,260 --> 00:24:50,790 British than I was Chinese or seen to be, deemed to be. I only 393 00:24:50,790 --> 00:24:53,880 really started learning about Asian cuisine in Singapore when 394 00:24:53,880 --> 00:24:57,930 I lived in Singapore when I was 10 years old. I didn't like food 395 00:24:57,930 --> 00:25:00,450 at all for the first 10 years of my life. You know, because I 396 00:25:00,450 --> 00:25:04,500 just wanted to play, I found eating a chore, you know, and I 397 00:25:04,500 --> 00:25:06,870 didn't actually really see myself as being that Chinese. 398 00:25:07,860 --> 00:25:13,560 But over, like the last couple of decades, like, you change as 399 00:25:13,560 --> 00:25:17,580 you go forwards and you learn a lot more about your, your place 400 00:25:17,580 --> 00:25:21,270 of origin or your culture or whatever, but actually, even 401 00:25:21,270 --> 00:25:25,320 now, like my, my main thing is that I know how to cook good 402 00:25:25,320 --> 00:25:27,870 food, like, you know, this is it, I know how to teach it. So 403 00:25:28,110 --> 00:25:30,600 why does it matter where it comes from? It's just more about 404 00:25:30,600 --> 00:25:34,950 how tasty it is. You know, I know like the podcast Lecker, is 405 00:25:34,950 --> 00:25:36,240 like, It means tasty doesn't it 406 00:25:35,970 --> 00:25:39,399 Jeremy Pang: Sehr lecker. And my German friend who lived with me 407 00:25:36,240 --> 00:25:36,720 Lucy Dearlove: It does, yeah. 408 00:25:39,466 --> 00:25:43,367 and at university, you know, he used to teach me all these 409 00:25:43,434 --> 00:25:47,469 little things, little phrases, you know, so every, you know, 410 00:25:47,536 --> 00:25:51,302 every time I have a cuppa...eine Tasse heissen Tee, sehr 411 00:25:51,369 --> 00:25:55,471 lecker...a very tasty cup of tea, you know, but he's, I think 412 00:25:55,538 --> 00:25:59,641 that you go through phases in life. And you and when you come 413 00:25:59,708 --> 00:26:03,137 back to it, at the very beginning, I don't have any 414 00:26:03,205 --> 00:26:07,105 gripe about people trying to sort of stereotype me, I just 415 00:26:07,172 --> 00:26:11,207 know that that happens. And no matter whether...what culture 416 00:26:11,274 --> 00:26:15,376 you come from, there's always going to be people who do that, 417 00:26:15,444 --> 00:26:19,277 whether on purpose or by accident, and that's okay. Like, 418 00:26:19,344 --> 00:26:23,177 I'm kind of okay with that. I know that most people won't 419 00:26:23,244 --> 00:26:27,347 necessarily agree with that. A lot of people don't agree with 420 00:26:27,414 --> 00:26:31,314 that. But I'm okay with it. Because I was brought up with, 421 00:26:31,381 --> 00:26:35,685 in two cultures. And I, most of my friends are from all over the 422 00:26:35,752 --> 00:26:39,855 world. Yeah. Where I, perhaps have seen my profile change, or 423 00:26:39,922 --> 00:26:44,091 is actually I've taken control of that and gone, Okay, let me, 424 00:26:44,158 --> 00:26:48,328 let me put myself where I want to be. And that, although it... 425 00:26:48,395 --> 00:26:52,564 I've had moments of, like quite stressful moments, like trying 426 00:26:52,632 --> 00:26:56,666 to work out what I should be doing, or what society thinks I 427 00:26:56,734 --> 00:27:00,836 should be doing, I always come back to then taking control of 428 00:27:00,903 --> 00:27:05,005 it, and not caring what society thinks. And just doing what I 429 00:27:05,072 --> 00:27:09,040 feel is best. And that is like being myself, being kind and 430 00:27:09,107 --> 00:27:13,344 generous to others. And my way of doing it is sharing my talent 431 00:27:13,411 --> 00:27:17,244 with other people and showing them how they can do it for 432 00:27:17,311 --> 00:27:21,481 themselves. Yeah. And I think that's certainly gotten me in my 433 00:27:21,548 --> 00:27:25,247 media world to a much better place. I'm accepted in the 434 00:27:25,314 --> 00:27:29,281 industry and respected in the industry for working hard and 435 00:27:29,349 --> 00:27:31,770 honing in my skill in communication. 436 00:27:31,000 --> 00:27:31,750 Adrienne Katz Kennedy: How do you think your customers...what 437 00:27:33,580 --> 00:27:39,130 do you think the demands for authenticity are? 438 00:27:39,970 --> 00:27:41,740 Jeremy Pang: Yeah it's a funny word authenticity isn't it. 439 00:27:41,770 --> 00:27:45,790 Adrienne Katz Kennedy: Yes. Has it changed? 440 00:27:45,790 --> 00:27:53,050 Jeremy Pang: Errr. No. Ahh...the demand from mass, like market 441 00:27:53,050 --> 00:27:56,830 customers, which definitely...it like, from the general public, 442 00:27:56,860 --> 00:28:00,880 for any type of product or service is nothing to do with 443 00:28:00,880 --> 00:28:04,810 authenticity in my mind. If you're, if you're teaching, like 444 00:28:04,810 --> 00:28:08,140 if you want to educate people in anything, you got to look at 445 00:28:08,140 --> 00:28:12,130 what people like. And they like, people like, especially when it 446 00:28:12,130 --> 00:28:16,120 comes to food, people like comfort food, things that make 447 00:28:16,120 --> 00:28:22,600 them feel comfort, nostalgia, for themselves, not for for 448 00:28:22,600 --> 00:28:24,400 someone else that they don't know from another country or 449 00:28:24,430 --> 00:28:29,680 country or culture. You know, so... authenticity to me is like 450 00:28:29,680 --> 00:28:33,970 what's authentic to that person that's coming to learn about 451 00:28:33,970 --> 00:28:39,760 Chinese food is what is what they've eaten from the Chinese 452 00:28:39,760 --> 00:28:43,780 culture, or from a Chinese takeaway, or restaurant, or 453 00:28:43,960 --> 00:28:46,480 perhaps a Chinese friend that there's cooked for them when 454 00:28:46,480 --> 00:28:47,050 they were younger? 455 00:28:49,040 --> 00:28:51,080 Adrienne Katz Kennedy: How do you manage that, because that's 456 00:28:51,080 --> 00:28:54,950 the same level of ...sounds, I might be wrong, but that's the 457 00:28:54,950 --> 00:28:58,580 same level of expectation is pick three dishes that you've 458 00:28:58,580 --> 00:29:02,240 ever eaten before and I'll teach you how to cook them in that, 459 00:29:02,240 --> 00:29:06,230 like, having to cater somebody's experience that you may or may 460 00:29:06,230 --> 00:29:07,940 not really be aware of... 461 00:29:07,000 --> 00:29:10,330 Jeremy Pang: Yes and no, because after three years even before 462 00:29:10,330 --> 00:29:13,960 opening the doors here in central London, and doing that 463 00:29:13,960 --> 00:29:20,830 service 80% of the time, people will pick the same dishes. You 464 00:29:20,830 --> 00:29:26,530 know, because in the UK and not just UK, any country there are 465 00:29:26,710 --> 00:29:31,390 only certain establishments that like you can go in, like they 466 00:29:31,390 --> 00:29:34,660 could go and get this food when they were growing up. And so 467 00:29:34,660 --> 00:29:39,160 they eat whatever was like available from those types of 468 00:29:39,160 --> 00:29:43,060 establishments, egg fried rice, sweet and sour pork, crispy 469 00:29:43,060 --> 00:29:53,110 chili beef, prawn toast, spring rolls, possibly like a sweet 470 00:29:53,110 --> 00:29:59,920 corn soup. Really like what I would deem is - other than 471 00:29:59,920 --> 00:30:03,040 Maybe a fried rice and sweet sour pork, which we would eat in 472 00:30:03,040 --> 00:30:07,780 a Chinese family at home - quite far away from a classic like 473 00:30:08,110 --> 00:30:12,940 real Cantonese meal, home meal. But Cantonese people, like 474 00:30:12,970 --> 00:30:15,550 Chinese people like myself, even though I was born here, we don't 475 00:30:15,550 --> 00:30:21,850 go to Chinese takeaways to eat dinner. We might own them, but 476 00:30:21,850 --> 00:30:26,590 we won't go to them. But even then, as kids, we also loved 477 00:30:26,620 --> 00:30:31,090 those things, we loved prawn toast we loved, you know, we 478 00:30:31,090 --> 00:30:35,980 loved sweet, proper, sweet and sweet and sour. And, you know, 479 00:30:35,980 --> 00:30:38,920 my, my mum and dad would scoff at us wanting to order it at a 480 00:30:38,920 --> 00:30:41,140 restaurant, but that's what we were wanting to eat. 481 00:30:44,800 --> 00:30:47,230 Adrienne Katz Kennedy: It's interesting that you still have 482 00:30:47,230 --> 00:30:52,210 to play to what people know, you can't I mean, you...part of what 483 00:30:52,210 --> 00:30:58,120 you do is try to teach and kind of celebrate this openness 484 00:30:58,150 --> 00:31:02,560 around Chinese cuisine around Asian cuisines and how to make 485 00:31:02,560 --> 00:31:08,710 it accessible in domestic spaces with whatever you have. But then 486 00:31:08,710 --> 00:31:13,720 having to play to what people know, rather than what your 487 00:31:13,720 --> 00:31:14,980 family might eat at home. 488 00:31:15,020 --> 00:31:17,420 Jeremy Pang: Yeah, right. But it's education, isn't it? You 489 00:31:17,420 --> 00:31:21,500 know, like, my, my oldest is first year at school, you know, 490 00:31:21,500 --> 00:31:25,430 he doesn't walk into school and suddenly start learning algebra, 491 00:31:25,460 --> 00:31:29,060 like, you know, like, that's a, like, you walk into school and 492 00:31:29,060 --> 00:31:33,440 you don't actually, they don't actually have maths lessons they 493 00:31:33,710 --> 00:31:38,690 have...they play games, to learn about maths. Like, if if you 494 00:31:38,690 --> 00:31:43,610 don't do that, in in an any other educational sort of 495 00:31:43,610 --> 00:31:47,900 environment and make it fun, then people won't want to learn, 496 00:31:48,830 --> 00:31:52,610 right? So you got to you got to...in my mind, no matter who 497 00:31:52,610 --> 00:31:57,200 you are. If you want to be able to do like, like teach people 498 00:31:57,200 --> 00:32:01,190 something, or show someone something they don't know. They 499 00:32:01,190 --> 00:32:04,100 need to be super comfortable about you doing that for them. 500 00:32:04,670 --> 00:32:09,620 If it means that cooking 1000 egg fried rices... I mean, I 501 00:32:09,620 --> 00:32:12,110 joke that I've been flown all over the country to teach 502 00:32:12,110 --> 00:32:15,500 someone how to cook an egg fried rice, like and like flown all 503 00:32:15,500 --> 00:32:20,030 over the world. In fact, I remember...this is funny. Like 504 00:32:20,510 --> 00:32:24,140 Nev my business partner, myself and Shannon one of our ex 505 00:32:24,140 --> 00:32:30,680 managers. We were flown over to Singapore, for a festival for 506 00:32:30,680 --> 00:32:34,850 wellness, a health and wellbeing festival about four or five 507 00:32:34,850 --> 00:32:40,820 years ago to teach Singaporeans how to make dim sum. I mean, 508 00:32:41,360 --> 00:32:45,800 like we are, I was the only Chinese person there. First and 509 00:32:45,800 --> 00:32:49,430 foremost, Nev my business partners. Like I joke that he's 510 00:32:49,430 --> 00:32:53,810 this, you know, this sort of chef from, from like, the West 511 00:32:53,810 --> 00:32:58,490 Country of UK, who's only ever taught even how to eat dimsum 512 00:32:58,490 --> 00:33:04,580 from me 10 years ago, by but we have a skill set. And that is we 513 00:33:04,580 --> 00:33:08,750 make people feel really comfortable and relaxed and want 514 00:33:08,750 --> 00:33:12,080 to learn and actually most people in Asia, like in 515 00:33:12,080 --> 00:33:16,010 Singapore, even Hong Kong, where dim sum is like the place to be. 516 00:33:17,210 --> 00:33:23,390 Do not know even like, like the first like sort of step on how 517 00:33:23,390 --> 00:33:28,250 to make a dumpling pastry. Right so that I mean, that's funny. I 518 00:33:28,250 --> 00:33:31,070 mean, I've I've flown over to Hong Kong just for one day just 519 00:33:31,070 --> 00:33:34,850 to teach an audience of like 1500 people how to make a fried 520 00:33:34,850 --> 00:33:37,790 rice or healthy fried rice. Because in Hong Kong people 521 00:33:37,790 --> 00:33:41,510 don't cook. Because they can get that fried rice for a couple of 522 00:33:41,510 --> 00:33:44,900 quid down the road. Why would they make it themselves? Yeah, 523 00:33:44,900 --> 00:33:49,670 it's it's an interesting concept. But but the point I'm 524 00:33:49,670 --> 00:33:55,250 getting at is like it's if and I'm getting closer and closer to 525 00:33:55,250 --> 00:34:01,190 being able to like, talk to huge audiences now. But it hasn't 526 00:34:01,190 --> 00:34:05,570 changed, like my way of talking to big audience or a small 527 00:34:05,570 --> 00:34:10,940 audience never changed, like and that is how do I make everyone 528 00:34:10,940 --> 00:34:13,430 in that audience feel comfortable and have a bit of 529 00:34:13,430 --> 00:34:16,940 fun. And that works it works. 530 00:34:31,980 --> 00:34:34,848 Lucy Dearlove: This episode of Lecker was hosted by Adrienne 531 00:34:34,912 --> 00:34:38,673 Katz Kennedy and produced by me Lucy Dearlove. You can read 532 00:34:38,737 --> 00:34:42,625 Adrienne's writing and find out more about her on her website 533 00:34:42,689 --> 00:34:46,642 Adriennekatzkennedy.com And you can find out more about Jeremy 534 00:34:46,705 --> 00:34:50,275 Pang at Jeremy pang.co.uk and his new book Jeremy Pang's 535 00:34:50,339 --> 00:34:54,036 School of Wok is out now, wok clock illustrations and all. 536 00:34:54,100 --> 00:34:57,670 This month's Patreon exclusive episode is a conversation 537 00:34:57,734 --> 00:35:01,049 between myself and Adrienne about the making of this 538 00:35:01,112 --> 00:35:05,192 episode, which was something new for both of us. It was a really 539 00:35:05,256 --> 00:35:09,017 interesting process for me for various reasons. And you can 540 00:35:09,081 --> 00:35:13,097 listen to us talk about that by becoming a patron of Lecker for 541 00:35:13,161 --> 00:35:16,858 three pounds a month. That's at patreon.com/leckerpodcast. 542 00:35:16,922 --> 00:35:20,683 Lecker is entirely listener funded and patron subscriptions 543 00:35:20,747 --> 00:35:24,571 allow me to cover running costs like transcription and music 544 00:35:24,635 --> 00:35:28,715 library fees, but also hopefully do more collaboration like this 545 00:35:28,779 --> 00:35:32,795 in the future where I can pay co hosts and contributors fairly, 546 00:35:32,859 --> 00:35:36,747 which is really important to me. So if you've enjoyed hearing 547 00:35:36,811 --> 00:35:40,253 from Adrienne on this episode, then please do consider 548 00:35:40,317 --> 00:35:44,142 subscribing if you can afford to. Other ways you can support 549 00:35:44,206 --> 00:35:48,286 Lecker: rate and review on Apple podcasts or Spotify. Buy things 550 00:35:48,349 --> 00:35:52,111 from the Lecker Big Cartel site, I'll link that in the show 551 00:35:52,174 --> 00:35:55,999 description and just tell your friends. Music is by Blue Dot 552 00:35:56,063 --> 00:35:59,442 Sessions. Thanks to Ben McDonald, who did a fantastic 553 00:35:59,505 --> 00:36:03,458 illustration of Jeremy for this episode as he does for many of 554 00:36:03,521 --> 00:36:07,601 the Lecker episodes. You can see that on the LeckerInstagram and 555 00:36:07,665 --> 00:36:11,554 Twitter @leckerpodcast. And I know I've been away for a while 556 00:36:11,617 --> 00:36:15,761 but I've got loads more episodes to come over the next few weeks. 557 00:36:15,825 --> 00:36:19,203 some really exciting things, subscribe if you haven't 558 00:36:19,267 --> 00:36:22,710 already. And I'll be back in your feed very very soon.