Jeremy Pang: We're in the basement. Depends how honest you
want me to be really, but that used to be called The Rat
cupboard. And the reason for that is because when we first
came in, there was a family of rats who lived in this, what
used to be an old accountants office.
Lucy Dearlove: This is Lecker. I'm Lucy Dearlove. Learning to
cook is such an interesting thing. To me. This is often
something I think about when I'm on TikTok, as countless cooking
videos pop up on my FYP because never before in history have we
had such frictionless access to videos of people cooking things.
And it seems really logical to learn how to cook this way
because cooking is such a physical activity. But when you
consider cooking schools, which again, makes sense to learn this
way, because it's such a physical thing...cooking schools
tend to be quite serious and formal. In my mind, I always
have a picture of stainless steel surfaces and industrial
appliances. But what about a different kind of cooking
school? One intended to try and meet people where they are in
terms of their skills, their knowledge, and their kitchens.
This is Jeremy Pang, who founded the School of Wok
Jeremy Pang: In the first week of us opening the f...one of the
first ever customers we had was our landlords. And it was in
their class that we saw a lovely friendly creature sort of run
past the surveyor... and I didn't tell her because
obviously our customers... so we distracted her with the
beautiful food and then they had a lovely time and then the day
after I sent her an email I said can you please sort this out,
we've got a problem. So it's now not the rat cupboard. Anyway!
Lucy Dearlove: I love that that's what you started with
Jeremy Pang: This is...Adrienne's going
like...what the. Right. Anyway, let's get over the rat story.
Welcome to School of Wok.
Lucy Dearlove: On this episode, I'm handing over the hosting to
my friend and collaborator, the food writer, Adrienne Katz
Kennedy. Adrienne and I headed down to the school of work
together, so she could interview Jez, an old friend of hers.
Adrienne Katz Kennedy: I met Jez about 12 years ago or so. I was
managing a cookery school in Marylebone. And he and his
business partner walked in looking for some place to hire
to do some cookery classes.
Lucy Dearlove: Right. And then he poached you.
Adrienne Katz Kennedy: And then he poached me. It's great.
Jeremy Pang: The concept at the beginning was very much...I can
teach you, anyone in three hours, you can pick three
dishes, any food that you've ever eaten in a Chinese
restaurant, I'll teach you how to cook, which was quite a big
concept. Because I mean, I couldn't cook any, like every
single dish that every single Chinese restaurant in the UK has
ever offered. I didn't know...
Adrienne Katz Kennedy: That's asking a lot from you!
Jeremy Pang: Yeah, and people did! Most people will not you
know, they'd ask for like, an egg fried rice, and sweet and
sour pork and, and maybe a crispy chili beef or something
like that. But and to be fair, I've never even cooked a crispy
chili beef in my life before opening School of Wok. But I
knew, like because of my upbringing, my dad and my, my
dad was definitely more of the wok sort of like sort of Chef
and he at home. And, you know, I learned a lot from him growing
up. Not that he taught me, he just just showed me...he was
just like, watch son, watch. And you'll learn. Very quickly after
opening in 2009 and teaching sort of friends of friends. I
think it took about six months for most of my customers...55%
of the customers after six months are coming from Google
searching for Chinese cooking lessons. In London.
Adrienne Katz Kennedy: There was quite a thirst for home cooking
at that time thought, with recession and kind of moving
away from restaurant entertaining and to home
entertaining.
Jeremy Pang: It was, it was
Adrienne Katz Kennedy: Sounds like it was serendipitous.
Jeremy Pang: I think you're right. I think the recession
helped me start this business, which is a weird thing to think
about. You know, I was like 25...what do I do? I'd lost my
job on the day of my dad's burial and then came back home
to a recession...couldn't find a job in corporate again. I was in
marketing and PR, marketing mainly. You know, my my wife
basically said to me, Well, why don't you teach cooking and I
that's how it started. And then now like looking, what, 13 years
back? I think the concept of School Of Wok hasn't changed
that much. But what we did when we stepped foot in here was we
got rid of the 'we'll teach you anything, it's your choice'. It
was more like no, we have to build menus into each one of the
classes. Because otherwise it was just not manageable. If
everyone wants to learn something completely different
in the same class, it's just not manageable at all. At that time,
it was mainly Chinese still. But what we did was we split them at
the very beginning, because we'd been to lots of Western cooking
classes. We split them like they did. And that was like knife
skills or wok skills or you know, but very quickly, we
realized that didn't work for us that actually, we had to teach
every class like you were cooking a normal meal at home.
Like you wouldn't ever just focus at home on your knife
skills, especially with Asian cooking you're like No, every,
every class needs knife skills. Yeah, that's important, you
know? So the first half an hour, every class now - and the format
changed at that point in the first year I'd say - every half
an hour of every class was... here, this is how you use a
cleaver. Yeah, these are the reasons why a cleaver's so much
more versatile in in many ways to a 20 centimetre chef's knife.
Yeah. And then you move on to like, you're like your
preparation is done. Let's make some lovely dumplings or
whatever. And you get that sort of nice therapeutic feeling of
like making something. It's like an immediate reward when you've
made something you've never made before. And it looks beautiful
in front of you. Yeah. And then you go into wok cooking and you
get your adrenaline rush. Yeah. So over time, it changed to
like, more like cuisine based. And we started to introduce more
like Southeast Asian cuisines, you know, and things like that.
And now we teach Chinese...alll Southeast Asian cuisines,
Korean, Japanese, but it's taken us best part of 10 years to be
able to introduce what I would say the UK mass audience would
deem as newer cuisines here. And even then, most people, like,
don't really know, like the...anything out of outside of
a handful of most popular dishes from those places. Yeah, what
we're teaching is like, not necessarily like how to cook one
dish, like dish by dish of course, we do that in the
classes. What we're teaching is more like, why I think Asian
families, most Asian families I know, food is what brings us
together, so and so it's like a cultural, like, a really
positive cultural experience without being too focused on
being Asian. Does that make sense? Yeah, I think that was
important to me, because I mean, I was brought up at the best of
both worlds. So but the best part of the Asian culture that I
was brought up in was definitely the food and feasts that we had
as a family. So to bring that to the world in a different way
that that...I think that's why we've we've stayed here, other
than the name being super cool. We've stayed there because we've
got quite a unique way of delivering that.
Adrienne Katz Kennedy: The rat cupboard is now completely
sealed up, totally safe and is in fact used as a cloakroom.
School of Wok is close to the heart of Covent Garden, near
Chinatown, on a quiet little alleyway that you wouldn't know
existed if you weren't going there for a particular purpose.
Jeremy Pang: It's just behind Coutts bank is almost like a
lost, lost Street and no one really knows it. It's here. And
it's never really changed that way. But there are some nice
like you know, the Harp, the pub down the road has been here for
God knows how long. It was when we first started owned by a
lovely old Irish lady who owned it for many, many years. And
it's a little sort of community almost, yeah.
Adrienne Katz Kennedy: When Jez and his business partner Nev
first went to view the school it was an accountants office. And
the first room you walked into was just set up into little
cubbies. So now it's the shopfront...you walk in, it's
where classes will do their preparations, all of their knife
skills. And then at the end, the tables are flipped around. So
it's where everyone can enjoy their meal together at the end
of the class. So at the back of the space, you have the kitchen,
where the class will go into towards the end of the three
hour period to watch the demonstration and then do all of
the wok cooking
Jeremy Pang: When we got through to this back kitchen...this is
when both Nev and I, my business partner and I were quite
excited, I would say because this space was - in terms of an
empty shell - how it currently feels. And so we came in here
and they actually already had the skylights, I think...there's
a lot of light that comes in here. Even though we're in
central London, and we're surrounded by buildings. We get
this sort of flood of light in here natural light and When we
came in here we thought Oh yeah, we can definitely build a
kitchen into here. And that's when we started thinking okay,
this is more real than not. The basement downstairs was hard to
figure out. But we sort of worked the design of school of
wok backwards from this back kitchen. It's a weird shape, but
it does, it does work and now, this is where we do a lot of
filming for the school of wok YouTube channel. Of course, we
need the space for a lot of pots and pans. And, yeah, you know,
all the woks are under and like in the cupboards, you know, like
but you can see woks dotted around everywhere and, you know,
steam baskets, like all over the place.
Adrienne Katz Kennedy: The School of Wok is quite different
than a lot of other professional or even recreational cookery
schools in that it doesn't feel overwhelming. There's no big
shiny appliances. For the most part, it's not a professional
kitchen, it feels a lot more like a domestic space. The whole
school of wok approach and Jez's approach is to make it relaxed,
to make cooking fun, rather than task oriented. So I think the
reason for the school being set up the way it is, is to make
customers feel comfortable. So they're less intimidated by the
skills that they're going to learn.
Jeremy Pang: What we wanted was an open space where every pod or
kitchen pod felt like a, like a flat kitchen, like you don't
require huge amounts of space to be able to cook beautifully,
like good home food, home cooked food here. I mean, all the way
round there's sort of single, or what we call like domino hubs,
or induction hubs, because they literally are like a domino
piece dotted around the outside of the kitchen. In the middle of
the kitchen, there's an island with a...one...the only gas hub
in school of wok. And then two domino induction hubs either
side, I've got one gas wok hob in there, that's mainly for use
on the YouTube channel. So that I've got a bit of versatility,
but the whole concept with school of wok was I started
teaching people in their own homes, how to cook Chinese food,
when you teach in people's homes, you don't have a choice
of what hob you have, so... and so it was either. I mean, I
remember, Hannah, who's one of our staff has been a longtime
her dad was one of my first ever customers. And they had in their
old kitchen a ceramic hob, you know, old school 1970s style
ceramic hob, you know, we cooked...like, all the stuff
that we teach here today, we were cooking on that hob. And we
worked out how, yeah. I am not a believer of like, you know, the
traditional is always best, I think, I think it's a case of
like, well, no, you use what you got. And you work it out from
there. And first, when we put induction hobs into here, a lot
of people don't how can you ever walk school without gas, a gas
feed, we actually kept off the gasoline, we don't have a gas
feed today, we just have a butane gas cylinder under this
hob for that because because we capped off the gas feed quite
confidently, yeah. For various reasons...commercially. We were
at that point, we made a link with one of our sponsors who
were really like it's sort of at the forefront of induction
technology. And they said, Can you cook this stuff on induction
and I said, Give me heat any type of heat and you can cook
it. But also we thought actually no, it's a nice thing because
it's modern, it's easy to clean down. But it's also we felt that
most like modern like flats these days built with either
electric or induction hubs. And so if we couldn't teach people
how to use their own equipment, then we wouldn't succeed. Like
there was a lot of cookery schools we used to dot around
all of them before we opened here that had quite commercial
industrial kitchens spaces that they were doing cooking classes
in. Actually, we knew that customers going to those cook
schools were quite daunted by standing it just even standing
in an industrial kitchen environment and so we wanted
this space to be as close to home as possible. And that has
worked and that has never changed like we've always had
that feeling of of whatever restrictions whether you feel
may be at home you still have here but we're showing you that
they're not really restrictions you can cook what you want as
long as you've got a bit of heat here because once you can
control heat and know how to control heat. You can you can
cook on anything, yeah.
The school of wok way for Pretty much like hands on cooking. So
as much as possible, we explain little things here or there, or
we give people like tips and tricks and how to be more
confident on the walk, or how to get the best out cooking their
Thai curries or whatever it might be. But like where
possible, we'll, we'll take a guinea pig to demonstrate stuff
from the group of customers, because that I believe, makes
the whole group then much more confident that they can do
themselves. When customers first walk in most of the time, most
of the time, they don't know each other, in the first 10, 15
minutes, they can be quite quiet, and not really sort of
get on like, you know, they're just a bit sort of scared of
talking to each other. But but then the chef gets them
involved, they start chopping they're really concentrating on
not chopping their fingers off, you know, and then once they've
gotten past the garlic, ginger and spring onion, then they're
usually pretty comfortable and they start chatting to each
other. You know, and then by that point out there when the
prep preparing, it's actually quite, it's almost quite Zen in
this in the sense it's quite, especially the public classes
very relaxed, and but also everyone's really eager to
learn, I'd say then it takes about, what, 45 minutes an hour
or so at least before they might have to come in here and cook a
curry or get a curry started. When they come in here they're
like oh yeah, let's let's get cooking something, they've got
that feeling. And then their chef, usually because of our
style of cooking, like Asian cooking, there's a lot of it can
be quite theatrical, in many senses. So and so they enjoy
that, you know, the wok demonstrations, or even like
intricacies of like how to get the best flavour out of a curry
paste, you know, by sort of slowly frying it off. And, you
know, all that sort of stuff is interesting, isn't it?
Interesting, yeah. And that's part of the love of food, enjoy
it, like, you know, some things are really quick, some things is
much slower. And the slower things, you know, you enjoy
that, you know, you give it that love and the quicker things you
get that adrenaline rush,
Adrienne Katz Kennedy: As Jez was talking about the
physicality and the joy you get from cooking in person, I was
wondering how he helped to translate that to the cookbooks
he writes.
Jeremy Pang: Cooking is extremely, like physical,
everything is done by like hand eye coordination. And you know,
muscle memory, the best place to do it is actually come in and
take a class like, but even even watching a Cooking, cooking
demonstration. Like is, is perhaps you're taking more in
that 20 minutes than you might take in from reading the whole
introduction to my book, you know, yeah, but but the what the
books do is is they sort of they're sort of more prolonged
effect of learning, you can go back to it. You can go into like
pages that you've missed, or you might not remember everything
that we've taught you in the class. That's why we think...we
have things like the wok clock, because whether it's illustrated
in a book or is stand- is sitting right in front of you on
a table. It's very, like it's visually appealing. Like you see
it and you go, Oh, that's so useful!
Adrienne Katz Kennedy: Do you want to explain what a wok clock
is?
Jeremy Pang: Yes, yeah, so. So a wok clock I think I guess I've
become a bit famous for, or school of wok has...it's like
our way of explaining mise en place, but it's, you know, a
round plate, you've got a round, everyone's got round plates at
home. So that's your wok clock. And you start at 12 o'clock with
your first ingredient. And then you go all the way round. So by
the time you've done your 90% of your preparation, all your
chopping and getting your sauces together, anything that you need
to like soak, or cook, pre cook, you know, you've done all of
that, then your recipes right there in front of you. And you
know exactly what needs to go first, second, third, fourth,
fifth. Yeah, that's what a wok clock is and it works a treat,
not just with what cooking but any type of cooking and most
people, most friends I know who who, like you know, read my
recipes or books or whatever, that that's the thing that they
take away is that is the wok clock and they're there...it
just betters their cooking in general.
Adrienne Katz Kennedy: In Jeremy's other cookbooks, while
the wok clock has been included, in his new book, Jeremy Pang's
School of Wok, this is the first time where there is a visual
illustration. It's done by Freya at the Brand New studio, who's
worked with Jeremy on all of his books.
Jeremy Pang: I'll say the title of the dish and then explain the
word clock. Yeah, fine. All right. So we've got a ginger and
spring onion chicken from the School of Wok cookbook...really
starts and finishes with the word clock so you do your
preparation, you know any chopping and things like that in
the first segment at 12 o'clock with spring onion, finely sliced
spring onion, and then moving on for that, next to the spring
onion. We've got some Ginger and Garlic, because I want my spring
onion to go in first before my ginger and garlic to get nicely
seared, get that flavour essence of the spring onion, ginger and
garlic goes in. And then after that on the wok clock you've got
your red onion so your harder vegetables, green peppers,
whatever veggies you want really following on. And then you've
got your chicken, which has been marinated, and that's in the
recipe. So it's like pre marinated meat. After your
harder vegetables, once your chicken's seared, then you've
got the sauce because I always say that your sauce goes last in
a stir fry you have sauce in two places, one in the marinade. And
secondly, in for your actual stir fry sauce. And that sauce
is made up in a little bowl or ramekin last on your wok clock
with some chicken stock, oyster sauce, dark soy shall sing rice
wine, and a bit of sesame oil. And so that can then all get
poured into your stir fry right at the right time. And you don't
hopefully have to go back to the recipe book and make this
beautiful recipe book too messy.
I always say that my job is simplify explanations of
techniques, but not to simplify techniques.
That makes sense!
So if you find something like the wok clock it which for us is
like gold dust because it's it's perfect for that because once
you get used to creating your wok clocks, say you're cooking
four or five completely different dishes in one night,
for a little dinner party. Really, that gets broken down
into four or five plates that you need to wash up at the end.
As opposed to the whole kitchen being an absolute mess. Anyone
who who's like really like uses our sort of teaching takes that
on board like because it's so much easier. It's so much more
pleasurable here, it's there to like visually have visual impact
to go. Okay, now I've cooked two or three recipes from the book,
perhaps I don't even need to read the method, I can just go
straight to the ingredients list. And the wok clock. You
know, know how to cook it. Yeah. Cooking in person is always
better because it's more fun for sure. Yeah. And cooking should
be fun. You know, or it can be a cooking it should be emotional,
isn't it, you know, should you can cook when you're angry. It's
a good time to cook you definitely get a cleaver out not
for the wrong reasons. But like get a cleaver and a chopping
board out and get some ginger and smash it because, like you
that is like therapy there right there in front of you with it
with a bit of ginger. You know, and well at the other day. And I
wasn't last week I wasn't angry. But I was I had a had a
stressful week. But my best friend came over from Miami. And
like on Friday afternoon, I just set aside four hours just to
cook whatever I wanted without a camera. Like without even any
thought or need to take a photo of this beautiful food I was
cooking. And I just put my headphones on put some music on
and I just cooked like I cooked a banquet for like three of us.
I said what do you want to eat and he said Chinese food of
course. And I was like, Okay, fine. I'll cook it but yeah, not
very often do I even cooked like lobster, like, you know, Ginger
and spring onion lobster at home. But I haven't seen him for
five years so and it's enjoyable.
Adrienne Katz Kennedy: Though Jeremy is a chef, he's not a
chef in the restaurant sense. He's a teacher. So he's in a
really unique position for a few different reasons.
From working with you for so long. I felt like at the
beginning there was a much smaller box that you were or the
school was being shoved into, that it was, you were
representing Chinese cookery as a whole or Chinese people as a
whole rather than Jeremy Pang and the School of Wok and all of
the people who have come through the doors and their version of
what Yes, this could be this cuisine has been for them their
influences that kind of thing.
Jeremy Pang: No, you are right. In that sense. I definitely was
shoehorned into my, my background and my my place of
origin, I guess. But
Adrienne Katz Kennedy: Which is here.
Jeremy Pang: But...yeah! you know, I was born in the UK. I
was probably for the first 10 years of my life much more
British than I was Chinese or seen to be, deemed to be. I only
really started learning about Asian cuisine in Singapore when
I lived in Singapore when I was 10 years old. I didn't like food
at all for the first 10 years of my life. You know, because I
just wanted to play, I found eating a chore, you know, and I
didn't actually really see myself as being that Chinese.
But over, like the last couple of decades, like, you change as
you go forwards and you learn a lot more about your, your place
of origin or your culture or whatever, but actually, even
now, like my, my main thing is that I know how to cook good
food, like, you know, this is it, I know how to teach it. So
why does it matter where it comes from? It's just more about
how tasty it is. You know, I know like the podcast Lecker, is
like, It means tasty doesn't it
Jeremy Pang: Sehr lecker. And my German friend who lived with me
Lucy Dearlove: It does, yeah.
and at university, you know, he used to teach me all these
little things, little phrases, you know, so every, you know,
every time I have a cuppa...eine Tasse heissen Tee, sehr
lecker...a very tasty cup of tea, you know, but he's, I think
that you go through phases in life. And you and when you come
back to it, at the very beginning, I don't have any
gripe about people trying to sort of stereotype me, I just
know that that happens. And no matter whether...what culture
you come from, there's always going to be people who do that,
whether on purpose or by accident, and that's okay. Like,
I'm kind of okay with that. I know that most people won't
necessarily agree with that. A lot of people don't agree with
that. But I'm okay with it. Because I was brought up with,
in two cultures. And I, most of my friends are from all over the
world. Yeah. Where I, perhaps have seen my profile change, or
is actually I've taken control of that and gone, Okay, let me,
let me put myself where I want to be. And that, although it...
I've had moments of, like quite stressful moments, like trying
to work out what I should be doing, or what society thinks I
should be doing, I always come back to then taking control of
it, and not caring what society thinks. And just doing what I
feel is best. And that is like being myself, being kind and
generous to others. And my way of doing it is sharing my talent
with other people and showing them how they can do it for
themselves. Yeah. And I think that's certainly gotten me in my
media world to a much better place. I'm accepted in the
industry and respected in the industry for working hard and
honing in my skill in communication.
Adrienne Katz Kennedy: How do you think your customers...what
do you think the demands for authenticity are?
Jeremy Pang: Yeah it's a funny word authenticity isn't it.
Adrienne Katz Kennedy: Yes. Has it changed?
Jeremy Pang: Errr. No. Ahh...the demand from mass, like market
customers, which definitely...it like, from the general public,
for any type of product or service is nothing to do with
authenticity in my mind. If you're, if you're teaching, like
if you want to educate people in anything, you got to look at
what people like. And they like, people like, especially when it
comes to food, people like comfort food, things that make
them feel comfort, nostalgia, for themselves, not for for
someone else that they don't know from another country or
country or culture. You know, so... authenticity to me is like
what's authentic to that person that's coming to learn about
Chinese food is what is what they've eaten from the Chinese
culture, or from a Chinese takeaway, or restaurant, or
perhaps a Chinese friend that there's cooked for them when
they were younger?
Adrienne Katz Kennedy: How do you manage that, because that's
the same level of ...sounds, I might be wrong, but that's the
same level of expectation is pick three dishes that you've
ever eaten before and I'll teach you how to cook them in that,
like, having to cater somebody's experience that you may or may
not really be aware of...
Jeremy Pang: Yes and no, because after three years even before
opening the doors here in central London, and doing that
service 80% of the time, people will pick the same dishes. You
know, because in the UK and not just UK, any country there are
only certain establishments that like you can go in, like they
could go and get this food when they were growing up. And so
they eat whatever was like available from those types of
establishments, egg fried rice, sweet and sour pork, crispy
chili beef, prawn toast, spring rolls, possibly like a sweet
corn soup. Really like what I would deem is - other than
Maybe a fried rice and sweet sour pork, which we would eat in
a Chinese family at home - quite far away from a classic like
real Cantonese meal, home meal. But Cantonese people, like
Chinese people like myself, even though I was born here, we don't
go to Chinese takeaways to eat dinner. We might own them, but
we won't go to them. But even then, as kids, we also loved
those things, we loved prawn toast we loved, you know, we
loved sweet, proper, sweet and sweet and sour. And, you know,
my, my mum and dad would scoff at us wanting to order it at a
restaurant, but that's what we were wanting to eat.
Adrienne Katz Kennedy: It's interesting that you still have
to play to what people know, you can't I mean, you...part of what
you do is try to teach and kind of celebrate this openness
around Chinese cuisine around Asian cuisines and how to make
it accessible in domestic spaces with whatever you have. But then
having to play to what people know, rather than what your
family might eat at home.
Jeremy Pang: Yeah, right. But it's education, isn't it? You
know, like, my, my oldest is first year at school, you know,
he doesn't walk into school and suddenly start learning algebra,
like, you know, like, that's a, like, you walk into school and
you don't actually, they don't actually have maths lessons they
have...they play games, to learn about maths. Like, if if you
don't do that, in in an any other educational sort of
environment and make it fun, then people won't want to learn,
right? So you got to you got to...in my mind, no matter who
you are. If you want to be able to do like, like teach people
something, or show someone something they don't know. They
need to be super comfortable about you doing that for them.
If it means that cooking 1000 egg fried rices... I mean, I
joke that I've been flown all over the country to teach
someone how to cook an egg fried rice, like and like flown all
over the world. In fact, I remember...this is funny. Like
Nev my business partner, myself and Shannon one of our ex
managers. We were flown over to Singapore, for a festival for
wellness, a health and wellbeing festival about four or five
years ago to teach Singaporeans how to make dim sum. I mean,
like we are, I was the only Chinese person there. First and
foremost, Nev my business partners. Like I joke that he's
this, you know, this sort of chef from, from like, the West
Country of UK, who's only ever taught even how to eat dimsum
from me 10 years ago, by but we have a skill set. And that is we
make people feel really comfortable and relaxed and want
to learn and actually most people in Asia, like in
Singapore, even Hong Kong, where dim sum is like the place to be.
Do not know even like, like the first like sort of step on how
to make a dumpling pastry. Right so that I mean, that's funny. I
mean, I've I've flown over to Hong Kong just for one day just
to teach an audience of like 1500 people how to make a fried
rice or healthy fried rice. Because in Hong Kong people
don't cook. Because they can get that fried rice for a couple of
quid down the road. Why would they make it themselves? Yeah,
it's it's an interesting concept. But but the point I'm
getting at is like it's if and I'm getting closer and closer to
being able to like, talk to huge audiences now. But it hasn't
changed, like my way of talking to big audience or a small
audience never changed, like and that is how do I make everyone
in that audience feel comfortable and have a bit of
fun. And that works it works.
Lucy Dearlove: This episode of Lecker was hosted by Adrienne
Katz Kennedy and produced by me Lucy Dearlove. You can read
Adrienne's writing and find out more about her on her website
Adriennekatzkennedy.com And you can find out more about Jeremy
Pang at Jeremy pang.co.uk and his new book Jeremy Pang's
School of Wok is out now, wok clock illustrations and all.
This month's Patreon exclusive episode is a conversation
between myself and Adrienne about the making of this
episode, which was something new for both of us. It was a really
interesting process for me for various reasons. And you can
listen to us talk about that by becoming a patron of Lecker for
three pounds a month. That's at patreon.com/leckerpodcast.
Lecker is entirely listener funded and patron subscriptions
allow me to cover running costs like transcription and music
library fees, but also hopefully do more collaboration like this
in the future where I can pay co hosts and contributors fairly,
which is really important to me. So if you've enjoyed hearing
from Adrienne on this episode, then please do consider
subscribing if you can afford to. Other ways you can support
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Sessions. Thanks to Ben McDonald, who did a fantastic
illustration of Jeremy for this episode as he does for many of
the Lecker episodes. You can see that on the LeckerInstagram and
Twitter @leckerpodcast. And I know I've been away for a while
but I've got loads more episodes to come over the next few weeks.
some really exciting things, subscribe if you haven't
already. And I'll be back in your feed very very soon.