1 00:00:07,700 --> 00:00:09,180 Hello and welcome to the sci guys. 2 00:00:09,180 --> 00:00:10,160 The show we talk about 3 00:00:10,160 --> 00:00:12,980 the crazy, weird and wonderful stories from the science world. 4 00:00:13,200 --> 00:00:14,480 I'm Corry, and as always, I'm 5 00:00:14,480 --> 00:00:18,660 joined by my co-host, Luke Cutforth and special guest Elliot Douglas. 6 00:00:18,740 --> 00:00:21,540 Wahey! 7 00:00:21,540 --> 00:00:22,060 What? 8 00:00:29,900 --> 00:00:32,880 This week we're talking about [fingerspells “deafness”... 9 00:00:32,880 --> 00:00:34,020 poorly] 10 00:00:38,660 --> 00:00:40,140 I signed deafness really badly. 11 00:00:40,140 --> 00:00:44,360 I spelt it out in BSL for anyone that’s listening. 12 00:00:44,360 --> 00:00:45,140 How’d I do? 13 00:00:47,220 --> 00:00:48,060 I suppose as well. 14 00:00:48,060 --> 00:00:48,920 If anyone's listening, 15 00:00:48,920 --> 00:00:51,100 they can't exactly see you trying to sign right now 16 00:00:51,120 --> 00:00:53,340 No one deaf is going to be listening to this, so that's fine. Yeah. 17 00:00:53,520 --> 00:00:55,140 No, actually that’s so true. 18 00:00:55,140 --> 00:00:57,420 I don't really listen to podcasts at all. 19 00:00:57,500 --> 00:00:59,000 I wonder why? 20 00:00:59,000 --> 00:00:59,720 Except this one. 21 00:00:59,720 --> 00:01:02,540 This is the only podcast I will interact with. 22 00:01:02,540 --> 00:01:04,080 Well, it’s got, Elliot’s stamp of approval. 23 00:01:04,080 --> 00:01:06,440 But first, let's do a little Apple Review. 24 00:01:06,440 --> 00:01:10,000 This one says these guys are genuinely so educational while 25 00:01:10,020 --> 00:01:13,340 still managing to be ten times more hilarious. It's 26 00:01:13,340 --> 00:01:17,400 so enjoyable, easy listening and lovely to learn from such passionate people. 27 00:01:17,600 --> 00:01:18,600 That's lovely. 28 00:01:18,600 --> 00:01:19,040 Thank you. 29 00:01:19,040 --> 00:01:20,220 That's lovely. 30 00:01:20,220 --> 00:01:22,680 So shall we get into the topic of today? 31 00:01:22,680 --> 00:01:25,740 Yes. No, we won't because we're doing a little question first, 32 00:01:25,740 --> 00:01:28,640 the question that I've got for everyone listening or watching. 33 00:01:28,800 --> 00:01:30,740 If you're watching or listening, get down to the YouTube comments 34 00:01:30,740 --> 00:01:31,640 and answer this question. 35 00:01:31,640 --> 00:01:36,080 Do you know any sign languages, BSL, ASL, any other sign languages? 36 00:01:36,080 --> 00:01:38,440 Do you? I'm actually. I'm learning. I'm learning 37 00:01:39,900 --> 00:01:40,820 I was asking that 38 00:01:40,820 --> 00:01:43,880 because I was like, obviously you do, but okay. 39 00:01:43,980 --> 00:01:48,620 No, no, I don't Not every deaf person signs, Luke No, well I'm learning. 40 00:01:48,680 --> 00:01:49,740 Well, you've learned one thing. 41 00:01:49,740 --> 00:01:51,720 Let's learn some more things. 42 00:01:51,720 --> 00:01:53,620 We're obviously talking about deafness today. 43 00:01:53,620 --> 00:01:55,820 Elliot, why are you joining us for this episode on deafness? 44 00:01:55,820 --> 00:01:57,900 Because I am deaf. No way. Really? What? 45 00:01:58,280 --> 00:02:00,120 I thought you were just like a really bad listener. 46 00:02:00,120 --> 00:02:04,980 I thought that was the thing Selective hearing. 47 00:02:04,980 --> 00:02:06,020 [Laughter] No, okay. 48 00:02:06,020 --> 00:02:08,540 So we're talking about deafness today, but before we get into that, 49 00:02:08,720 --> 00:02:11,300 let's talk about how hearing works. Right? 50 00:02:11,300 --> 00:02:12,960 Do either of you know how hearing works? 51 00:02:12,960 --> 00:02:15,200 Sort of. Sort of. 52 00:02:15,200 --> 00:02:15,800 Yeah, yeah. 53 00:02:15,800 --> 00:02:16,400 I have an idea. 54 00:02:16,400 --> 00:02:19,600 You know what they teach you at school, like with the with the cochlea 55 00:02:19,620 --> 00:02:21,780 and you have these little singular hair cells 56 00:02:21,780 --> 00:02:25,400 and they vibrate at certain frequencies and stuff You know a lot more than just a 57 00:02:25,400 --> 00:02:27,620 little bit. Yeah, you know how it works. Yeah. 58 00:02:27,860 --> 00:02:29,300 So let's just run through it, right? 59 00:02:29,300 --> 00:02:30,900 There are three different parts of your ear. 60 00:02:30,900 --> 00:02:31,640 You've got your outer 61 00:02:31,640 --> 00:02:35,400 ear, your middle ear and your inner ear, your outer ear is the pinna. 62 00:02:35,640 --> 00:02:38,300 And you know, the bit that you can see, the fleshy bit on the outside 63 00:02:38,520 --> 00:02:40,520 and that kind of tube that goes in. 64 00:02:40,520 --> 00:02:41,820 I'm not going to be super specific here. 65 00:02:41,820 --> 00:02:43,920 We’re just going to blast through this to get to 66 00:02:43,920 --> 00:02:45,440 the good stuff, the meaty stuff, right. 67 00:02:45,440 --> 00:02:48,060 So you got your outer ear, the sort of tube that goes in and your 68 00:02:48,420 --> 00:02:49,980 your pinna - the outside, bit. 69 00:02:49,980 --> 00:02:52,820 You've got your middle ear, which is the sort of bones, 70 00:02:52,820 --> 00:02:57,620 your ear bones, and then you've got your inner ear, which is the cochlea 71 00:02:57,860 --> 00:03:01,140 and all the little hairs that transport the sound waves to your brain. 72 00:03:01,140 --> 00:03:02,580 So the way the hearing essentially works 73 00:03:02,580 --> 00:03:07,280 is hearing is a sense that we use to take sound vibrations in the air 74 00:03:07,340 --> 00:03:11,060 or water, whatever medium you happen to be in at the time, and transform 75 00:03:11,060 --> 00:03:14,100 those into electrical signals that your brain can understand, right? 76 00:03:14,400 --> 00:03:15,780 Yes. That's essentially what hearing is. 77 00:03:15,780 --> 00:03:17,420 And the way that that works is you've got the pinna 78 00:03:17,420 --> 00:03:19,140 that's the outside of the ear that we were speaking about. 79 00:03:19,140 --> 00:03:21,480 The bit that you get pierced and all that, that 80 00:03:21,480 --> 00:03:23,340 basically is like a little sort of radio dish. 81 00:03:23,340 --> 00:03:25,380 It kind of takes collects in all the sound. 82 00:03:25,380 --> 00:03:26,880 It collects in those vibrations. 83 00:03:26,880 --> 00:03:29,660 And then those vibrations travel down that tube in the middle of your ear. 84 00:03:29,660 --> 00:03:31,280 You know, it travels down inside your ear. 85 00:03:31,280 --> 00:03:34,920 And then it's that eardrum which vibrates, which vibrates some bones. 86 00:03:34,920 --> 00:03:36,500 There's lots of vibrating going on, basically. 87 00:03:36,500 --> 00:03:38,100 It vibrates some bones. 88 00:03:38,100 --> 00:03:39,620 It is sound, so... You’re right. 89 00:03:39,620 --> 00:03:41,580 It vibrates some bones, which I guess 90 00:03:41,580 --> 00:03:43,700 sort of vibrates some fluid, you've got your cochlea. 91 00:03:43,700 --> 00:03:45,360 There's the hair cells that you're mentioning in there, 92 00:03:45,360 --> 00:03:46,400 and those hair cells vibrate 93 00:03:46,400 --> 00:03:48,420 and they'll send little electrical signals to your brain. 94 00:03:48,420 --> 00:03:50,360 That's basically how it works, right? 95 00:03:50,360 --> 00:03:51,420 We've got an understanding. 96 00:03:51,420 --> 00:03:53,280 Yep, yep, yep. Cool. 97 00:03:53,280 --> 00:03:54,320 Good, great. 98 00:03:54,320 --> 00:03:55,860 Glad. So let's move on. 99 00:03:55,860 --> 00:03:57,620 What is deafness? Again? 100 00:03:57,620 --> 00:04:02,000 Like many things in life, it is a spectrum one would assume. 101 00:04:02,000 --> 00:04:03,960 Luke you can't keep on saying this every single episode. 102 00:04:03,960 --> 00:04:07,140 I said that- I actually said it in the episode we recorded just before this, 103 00:04:08,420 --> 00:04:09,140 it was 104 00:04:09,140 --> 00:04:13,040 about self-driving cars, which also exist on a spectrum. 105 00:04:13,080 --> 00:04:15,000 Oh, it does. 106 00:04:15,500 --> 00:04:17,700 I feel like I'm not the best person to answer this. 107 00:04:17,720 --> 00:04:20,940 Maybe like deafness is an absence of hearing. 108 00:04:20,940 --> 00:04:23,240 Yeah. So, yeah, yeah, that's pretty. 109 00:04:23,240 --> 00:04:27,080 That's pretty spot on Essentially it’s an absence of hearing, um and it’s 110 00:04:27,080 --> 00:04:30,540 a spectrum and it comes in different, different forms as far as I'm aware. 111 00:04:30,540 --> 00:04:31,400 Yeah, absolutely. 112 00:04:31,400 --> 00:04:32,940 So you've got deafness. 113 00:04:32,940 --> 00:04:34,640 You could talk about hearing loss. 114 00:04:34,640 --> 00:04:36,020 Now, generally, 115 00:04:36,020 --> 00:04:36,880 when I've been researching 116 00:04:36,880 --> 00:04:38,220 this, people are talking about hearing loss, 117 00:04:38,220 --> 00:04:40,040 which is an interesting way of talking about it, 118 00:04:40,040 --> 00:04:43,140 I think, because they talk about sort of congenital hearing loss, 119 00:04:43,260 --> 00:04:45,740 which is hearing loss from birth, 120 00:04:46,940 --> 00:04:49,920 which isn't quite loss if you never had it in the first place. 121 00:04:49,920 --> 00:04:50,520 You know, I mean. 122 00:04:50,520 --> 00:04:54,920 I'm not that involved in the community sort of just because I kind of grew 123 00:04:54,920 --> 00:04:56,120 up quite isolated from it. 124 00:04:57,180 --> 00:04:59,180 I didn't have lots of deaf friends in my 125 00:04:59,180 --> 00:05:02,760 like immediate day to day life when I was at school and things like that. 126 00:05:02,960 --> 00:05:05,180 But what I was going to say is within the deaf community, 127 00:05:05,180 --> 00:05:09,080 there seems to be this sort of not policing, 128 00:05:09,080 --> 00:05:13,560 but around what language is used when it comes to deaf people. 129 00:05:13,680 --> 00:05:15,660 You don't want to talk about having a hearing loss 130 00:05:15,660 --> 00:05:17,360 because have you actually lost something? 131 00:05:17,360 --> 00:05:19,560 Yeah, which is exactly kind of as you said. 132 00:05:19,620 --> 00:05:21,620 Yeah, no, no, this is this is what I find interesting when we 133 00:05:21,620 --> 00:05:25,820 talk about sort of the deaf community, because there is a whole community there 134 00:05:26,040 --> 00:05:29,840 that generally hearing people are just not really aware of at all. 135 00:05:29,840 --> 00:05:32,960 And interestingly, it can be quite an insular community. 136 00:05:32,960 --> 00:05:34,680 Right. Have you found have you found that personally? 137 00:05:34,680 --> 00:05:35,520 Not personally. 138 00:05:35,520 --> 00:05:38,760 Like with other deaf people that I've interacted with, like it's 139 00:05:38,760 --> 00:05:39,720 very like wholesome. 140 00:05:39,720 --> 00:05:43,580 But I mean, I watched Sound of Metal like maybe a year or two ago 141 00:05:43,820 --> 00:05:47,780 when it came out and I could it was just this deaf community 142 00:05:47,780 --> 00:05:52,760 who only signed there was no, like, vocal communication at all. 143 00:05:53,000 --> 00:05:55,440 And that was really interesting for me to watch as a deaf person 144 00:05:55,440 --> 00:05:59,900 because I didn't realize that those sort of deaf communities existed, like of just. 145 00:06:00,680 --> 00:06:05,220 No, yeah, no, no speaking sign only like I kind of would like that, you know. 146 00:06:05,280 --> 00:06:06,020 Fair enough. 147 00:06:07,160 --> 00:06:07,980 When I say it's insular. 148 00:06:07,980 --> 00:06:10,040 That's not that's not denigration. 149 00:06:10,520 --> 00:06:12,500 I understand why it makes sense, 150 00:06:12,500 --> 00:06:15,200 but it's something that I don't think a lot of people generally consider. 151 00:06:15,200 --> 00:06:18,180 And I said up top, I mean, we mentioned it in this episode 152 00:06:18,180 --> 00:06:19,640 that we did with Tom Scott a couple of weeks ago. 153 00:06:19,640 --> 00:06:22,860 But I said up top that, you know, I say a couple weeks ago, this was last week 154 00:06:23,420 --> 00:06:26,760 I said up top sign languages because there are multiple sign languages. 155 00:06:26,760 --> 00:06:30,440 Obviously people don't think about that either because people just kind of see 156 00:06:30,740 --> 00:06:33,600 deaf people as disabled and that's it. 157 00:06:33,600 --> 00:06:35,420 They're just they're just a bunch of disabled people off, 158 00:06:35,420 --> 00:06:37,200 you know, struggling to get through the world. 159 00:06:37,200 --> 00:06:39,600 But that's not that's a really, really strange 160 00:06:39,600 --> 00:06:42,900 and not very helpful way to look at the deaf community. 161 00:06:42,900 --> 00:06:47,520 I was going to say like I've I had someone recently ask, 162 00:06:47,520 --> 00:06:51,260 oh, do you understand the sign language that was in this clip for something? 163 00:06:51,300 --> 00:06:55,080 And I was like, Well, that's American sign language, so I'm not going to. 164 00:06:55,100 --> 00:06:59,180 And a lot of people either seem to think that there's one universal 165 00:06:59,220 --> 00:07:01,400 sign language which actually would be kind of useful 166 00:07:01,400 --> 00:07:04,620 in terms of if it could translate well between other languages. 167 00:07:04,620 --> 00:07:06,000 But I don't think it quite 168 00:07:06,000 --> 00:07:09,080 could because of grammar and all sorts of other things like that. 169 00:07:09,420 --> 00:07:13,500 But every, you know, every language has its own sign language as well. 170 00:07:13,580 --> 00:07:14,640 So it's sign languages. 171 00:07:14,640 --> 00:07:16,760 Yeah, it's interesting because we were talking to Tom, Tom 172 00:07:17,040 --> 00:07:18,180 Scott about this last week. 173 00:07:18,180 --> 00:07:20,120 So if you go check out our episode on linguistics 174 00:07:20,120 --> 00:07:22,260 last week, you can find those conversations. 175 00:07:22,260 --> 00:07:26,800 But he mentions that there are some sign languages that aren't connected at all 176 00:07:27,000 --> 00:07:29,120 to any spoken languages, which is really interesting 177 00:07:29,120 --> 00:07:31,520 because then they've got different grammar and whatnot. 178 00:07:31,620 --> 00:07:35,440 And so I think the way that you can have that universal sign language 179 00:07:35,640 --> 00:07:39,380 is just by having one that is disconnected from any spoken language. 180 00:07:39,920 --> 00:07:41,880 So yeah, back to sort of deafness. 181 00:07:41,880 --> 00:07:43,680 And again, we're going to talk about hearing loss. 182 00:07:43,680 --> 00:07:46,940 I'm just I'm saying that because that's what's in the papers. 183 00:07:46,940 --> 00:07:51,380 I don't really I don't really agree necessarily with that framing of it. 184 00:07:51,560 --> 00:07:55,180 But to be fair, there are some people that do experience hearing loss 185 00:07:55,200 --> 00:07:58,680 and it's kind of all lumped in together, unfortunately. 186 00:07:58,680 --> 00:08:00,620 So the language isn't quite there. 187 00:08:00,620 --> 00:08:03,500 So you could talk about people that are hard of hearing, hearing loss 188 00:08:03,620 --> 00:08:04,640 and deaf people. 189 00:08:04,640 --> 00:08:08,060 None of those three groups are necessarily all the same people. 190 00:08:08,060 --> 00:08:08,300 Right. 191 00:08:08,300 --> 00:08:11,660 Like those are three different terms for three, not entirely separate, but 192 00:08:12,660 --> 00:08:13,320 somewhat distinct groups. 193 00:08:13,320 --> 00:08:15,260 I think it also depends on the individual. 194 00:08:15,260 --> 00:08:19,000 Yeah How they want to identify their deafness and when I because I guess 195 00:08:19,200 --> 00:08:22,760 what I have, I know that I have about a 70% loss. 196 00:08:23,000 --> 00:08:25,160 Right? I say loss again. 197 00:08:25,160 --> 00:08:26,820 It just feels it feels weird to me now 198 00:08:26,820 --> 00:08:29,300 because I'm like actually to be fair, this is all I've ever known. 199 00:08:29,300 --> 00:08:33,200 I've just been deaf all throughout my life and always told that saying 200 00:08:33,200 --> 00:08:38,300 deaf was bad, not a bad word, but like not to call it being deaf. 201 00:08:38,480 --> 00:08:41,600 Yeah, yeah, 202 00:08:43,080 --> 00:08:43,340 yeah. 203 00:08:43,340 --> 00:08:47,760 To not call it being deaf and it was often called my hearing problem by my parents. 204 00:08:47,760 --> 00:08:47,940 Right. 205 00:08:47,940 --> 00:08:49,140 But it's not really a problem there, is it? 206 00:08:49,140 --> 00:08:50,720 Because you get by just fine like you're doing. 207 00:08:50,720 --> 00:08:51,980 You're doing as well as you can. 208 00:08:51,980 --> 00:08:53,980 I think that, you know, and I'm glad we've gotten to 209 00:08:53,980 --> 00:08:56,060 this conversation so soon, we'll get into the science in a bit. 210 00:08:56,060 --> 00:08:58,280 Don't worry. We’ve got it there. It's coming. It's coming. 211 00:08:58,500 --> 00:09:02,140 But what I find interesting is that the deaf community is one 212 00:09:02,140 --> 00:09:06,200 that is, you know, as far as you know, the disabled community goes, 213 00:09:07,380 --> 00:09:09,000 the deaf community 214 00:09:09,280 --> 00:09:10,040 are a group of people. 215 00:09:10,040 --> 00:09:10,900 That's a lot 216 00:09:10,900 --> 00:09:14,000 a lot of people in the deaf community don't want to be seen as disabled. 217 00:09:14,000 --> 00:09:18,260 And they reject the label disabled, which you really only see otherwise 218 00:09:18,260 --> 00:09:22,520 and I guess sort of in the autistic community and and, you know, groups 219 00:09:22,520 --> 00:09:26,040 like that, because you can be almost entirely self-sufficient when you're deaf. 220 00:09:26,040 --> 00:09:29,900 It just takes people paying attention to the fact that you're deaf 221 00:09:29,900 --> 00:09:31,520 and taking that into account, you know? 222 00:09:31,520 --> 00:09:32,720 Yeah That's all it takes. 223 00:09:32,720 --> 00:09:36,540 I went to a workshop at Cannes this year with people who, 224 00:09:37,080 --> 00:09:40,220 some of whom identified as differently abled as opposed to disabled, 225 00:09:40,700 --> 00:09:42,540 and they weren't deaf 226 00:09:42,540 --> 00:09:45,740 or weren't necessarily deaf and they weren't necessarily autistic. 227 00:09:46,320 --> 00:09:49,920 They were had different abilities sometimes, sometimes physical abilities, 228 00:09:49,920 --> 00:09:51,380 and they identified as differently abled. 229 00:09:51,380 --> 00:09:54,360 So that was worth bringing in there. Yeah. No, no, it's interesting. 230 00:09:54,360 --> 00:09:59,520 My my my point is not just not just the term disabled or differently abled. 231 00:09:59,520 --> 00:10:00,060 I mean, I do 232 00:10:00,060 --> 00:10:03,900 get I get that as a deaf person because in some sense it is a disability. 233 00:10:03,900 --> 00:10:04,380 Right. 234 00:10:04,380 --> 00:10:07,260 However, I'm not like I haven't you know, there's nothing wrong. 235 00:10:07,320 --> 00:10:08,340 I have very good sight. 236 00:10:08,340 --> 00:10:12,060 You know, my my physical mobility is fine. 237 00:10:12,060 --> 00:10:13,340 It's just I guess I'm. 238 00:10:13,340 --> 00:10:15,600 Yeah, I can't hear it so much, but, like, it's 239 00:10:15,800 --> 00:10:19,640 it's weird because I feel like I do fit and I don't fit into this disabled 240 00:10:19,820 --> 00:10:23,520 or what I suppose people think of when they hear the word disabled as well. 241 00:10:23,700 --> 00:10:27,740 You know, people who hear the word disabled or see the word say anyway. 242 00:10:29,480 --> 00:10:33,900 Oh, not quite woke enough there, Elliot. 243 00:10:33,900 --> 00:10:37,620 People see the word disabled and they think of someone in a wheelchair 244 00:10:37,620 --> 00:10:40,880 or think of just a disability 245 00:10:40,880 --> 00:10:45,260 that isn't necessarily deafness and it's a spectrum. Hey! 246 00:10:45,500 --> 00:10:47,840 I do think I do think I'm glad you brought that up 247 00:10:47,840 --> 00:10:50,480 because that was the next point I was about to make, that 248 00:10:51,060 --> 00:10:55,900 I think the rejection of the disabled label is less to do with actually 249 00:10:56,280 --> 00:10:59,220 being disabled, you know, in the sort of stricter sense of the word 250 00:10:59,460 --> 00:11:03,420 and more with the social view of what disability is. 251 00:11:03,840 --> 00:11:06,500 And I guess as well, there's we can very briefly 252 00:11:06,500 --> 00:11:08,600 talk about the social model of disability where in 253 00:11:09,780 --> 00:11:13,200 the classic example is imagine that, you know, tomorrow you wake up 254 00:11:13,200 --> 00:11:16,040 and everybody's got sort of wings and everyone's able to fly 255 00:11:16,260 --> 00:11:20,600 and they start, you know, removing stairs and, you know, all of that sort of stuff. 256 00:11:20,600 --> 00:11:23,740 So you can't you can't fly, but you're perfectly able 257 00:11:23,760 --> 00:11:26,700 to get up to that building if if they just have stairs there. 258 00:11:26,700 --> 00:11:28,940 And why are there not stairs? I can get there if you give me stairs. 259 00:11:29,400 --> 00:11:30,660 That's kind of an idea of the social model 260 00:11:30,660 --> 00:11:34,340 disability that disability comes not necessarily from, you know, 261 00:11:35,000 --> 00:11:38,200 within the person or within within the disability itself- It’s 262 00:11:38,200 --> 00:11:44,160 societal, yeah, definitely like the societal like accessibility to things. 263 00:11:44,160 --> 00:11:47,940 You know, for example, if I went to this, oh gosh, I think about this all the time 264 00:11:47,940 --> 00:11:49,860 when I go to like screenings and events, 265 00:11:49,860 --> 00:11:52,140 I just wish they were they would subtitle it. 266 00:11:52,140 --> 00:11:55,520 Same The amount of people who aren't deaf, who use subtitles 267 00:11:55,520 --> 00:11:57,520 because they have an auditory processing disorder 268 00:11:57,780 --> 00:12:00,040 or because they just find it helps because I'm not going to lie. 269 00:12:00,060 --> 00:12:04,920 TV nowadays has so many sounds going on at once, it can be really difficult 270 00:12:04,920 --> 00:12:09,020 and also the actors lips might not always be visible on the screen 271 00:12:09,020 --> 00:12:09,920 when they're talking. 272 00:12:09,920 --> 00:12:12,680 I just think that subtitles should just be everywhere or 273 00:12:12,680 --> 00:12:16,260 just used in cinema way, way, way more than they actually are. 274 00:12:16,620 --> 00:12:17,460 I don’t see the problem with it. 275 00:12:17,460 --> 00:12:20,420 Because it makes it it just makes it so accessible to people. 276 00:12:20,420 --> 00:12:20,800 And yeah. 277 00:12:20,800 --> 00:12:23,480 What you were saying about the societal Just to touch on the subtitles part. 278 00:12:23,480 --> 00:12:27,620 I think it's interesting because Noah, the fifth Sci Guy uses subtitles 279 00:12:27,620 --> 00:12:31,700 constantly because he has ADHD and it helps him focus on what is being said. 280 00:12:32,120 --> 00:12:35,280 I can use subtitles and I sometimes like having subtitles on. 281 00:12:35,540 --> 00:12:38,460 Other times I get too focused on reading subtitles or 282 00:12:38,600 --> 00:12:41,900 the subtitles are bad and they ruin jokes and so I will. 283 00:12:41,960 --> 00:12:43,140 If I'm watching a comedy 284 00:12:43,140 --> 00:12:45,620 and I can have the subtitles off, generally I will turn them off because 285 00:12:45,840 --> 00:12:47,960 because the subtitles are bad, nothing to do with subtitles themselves. 286 00:12:47,960 --> 00:12:51,920 But then I also have a friend who also probably has ADHD 287 00:12:52,200 --> 00:12:56,040 and cannot stand subtitles because that's all that they can focus on. 288 00:12:56,420 --> 00:12:57,680 Like you've watched. 289 00:12:57,680 --> 00:12:59,240 We've watched a film with them and they're like, 290 00:12:59,240 --> 00:13:03,120 I've seen them literally hold up a piece of paper to cover the bottom of the screen 291 00:13:03,380 --> 00:13:06,920 because Noah was like, I need subtitles or this is unintelligible to me. 292 00:13:07,140 --> 00:13:09,060 Yes And this friend was like, Well, 293 00:13:09,060 --> 00:13:12,140 I need to have this covered or I cannot watch it. 294 00:13:12,440 --> 00:13:15,320 And like I get like having, having subtitles everywhere 295 00:13:15,560 --> 00:13:17,520 and that would probably be for the best. 296 00:13:17,520 --> 00:13:19,860 But it's so interesting how these different sort of 297 00:13:20,120 --> 00:13:23,780 but how different sort of accessibility needs can conflict with one another. 298 00:13:23,780 --> 00:13:25,860 Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. 299 00:13:25,860 --> 00:13:28,200 It feels like you could just have 300 00:13:28,200 --> 00:13:30,540 again, I'm just going to say, I went to Cannes again this year. 301 00:13:30,540 --> 00:13:31,260 It just feels like I. 302 00:13:32,280 --> 00:13:33,980 Did you go to Cannes, the film festival? 303 00:13:33,980 --> 00:13:38,040 And it's a coincidence that this is two stories so far have come up. 304 00:13:38,040 --> 00:13:39,720 I went to Cannes this year. 305 00:13:39,720 --> 00:13:42,520 Below the cinema screens because we're in France 306 00:13:42,540 --> 00:13:45,060 and not everyone's speaking English because it’s an international festival. 307 00:13:45,540 --> 00:13:46,880 You went to an international film festival? To Cannes? 308 00:13:46,880 --> 00:13:48,780 Oh yeah. To Cannes. 309 00:13:48,780 --> 00:13:52,400 They had like a little mini screen underneath, almost like a Nintendo DS. 310 00:13:52,680 --> 00:13:55,180 Underneath all the screens, there's a little mini screen 311 00:13:55,320 --> 00:13:57,740 that has the subtitles on, and that was great. 312 00:13:57,840 --> 00:13:58,560 But then you're right. 313 00:13:58,560 --> 00:14:00,760 Like it might be annoying if you, for example, 314 00:14:00,780 --> 00:14:03,840 somebody who cannot pay attention to anything when the subtitle are 315 00:14:03,860 --> 00:14:06,560 there, that might be a different difficulty in a different way. 316 00:14:07,080 --> 00:14:10,140 We could just have like, you know, like little 3D glasses. 317 00:14:10,180 --> 00:14:11,840 I was thinking that That’s a thing, isn’t it? 318 00:14:11,840 --> 00:14:14,280 it's invisible if you don't have the glasses on. 319 00:14:14,280 --> 00:14:16,020 Yeah, well, this is I mean, there are so many ways 320 00:14:16,020 --> 00:14:18,360 that we can make things accessible that. Was that Cannes? 321 00:14:18,900 --> 00:14:20,280 No Luke. I went to Cannes this year. 322 00:14:20,280 --> 00:14:22,680 There are so many ways that we could make things accessible. 323 00:14:22,700 --> 00:14:24,500 Yeah. Anyways, so 324 00:14:25,520 --> 00:14:25,800 no, I 325 00:14:25,800 --> 00:14:30,380 find it really, really interesting how all of this sort of works and I think that 326 00:14:30,620 --> 00:14:35,160 the deaf community is one that is really almost the poster child for this. 327 00:14:35,420 --> 00:14:39,020 “I'm rejecting the label disabled because I'm not disabled. 328 00:14:39,020 --> 00:14:43,500 You're the problem.” And I understand that to, you know, to a great degree. 329 00:14:43,500 --> 00:14:44,120 Like, I really get it. 330 00:14:44,120 --> 00:14:46,280 Like with with ADHD, it's very much a thing of like, 331 00:14:46,280 --> 00:14:47,660 okay, look, there are issues that I deal with 332 00:14:47,660 --> 00:14:50,400 and the issues I'm going to deal with regardless of having ADHD or not. 333 00:14:51,440 --> 00:14:53,460 But also, you could make life easier for me. 334 00:14:53,780 --> 00:14:56,060 Absolutely. Look, I'm going to be five, 10 minutes late. 335 00:14:56,400 --> 00:14:58,380 Don't be on me for that because I'm coming in 336 00:14:58,380 --> 00:15:00,780 and I'm doing more work than you anyway, you know what I mean? 337 00:15:00,780 --> 00:15:04,560 Like, okay, this deadline is a bit of an issue. 338 00:15:04,560 --> 00:15:06,880 If it can be moved by a day, let it move by a day 339 00:15:06,900 --> 00:15:10,220 and don't have a go at me for it because I have a disorder. 340 00:15:10,260 --> 00:15:13,700 So I mean, like, so I think we're seeing the label 341 00:15:13,700 --> 00:15:17,820 disability and I get pointing out where accessibility 342 00:15:18,980 --> 00:15:19,740 is like 343 00:15:19,740 --> 00:15:23,540 it could, where making things accessible could make life easier. 344 00:15:23,900 --> 00:15:27,400 But also I think that we need to really sit and think about how we feel 345 00:15:27,420 --> 00:15:30,620 about the label disabled because again, society 346 00:15:30,620 --> 00:15:32,180 has put all of these connotations 347 00:15:32,180 --> 00:15:34,380 on the label disabled, but if you put your hands up and say, 348 00:15:34,380 --> 00:15:37,240 well, there are some things that, you know, because of the way 349 00:15:37,260 --> 00:15:38,940 my body works, the way my brain works, blah, blah, blah, 350 00:15:38,940 --> 00:15:41,240 there are some things that I can’t do that other people do 351 00:15:42,660 --> 00:15:45,380 or certain needs that I have that other people maybe don't have. 352 00:15:45,980 --> 00:15:48,400 And, you know, if we if it crosses a certain threshold, then we 353 00:15:48,420 --> 00:15:49,700 we call that disability. 354 00:15:49,700 --> 00:15:53,720 I don't think that's necessarily like a bad thing. 355 00:15:54,060 --> 00:15:56,080 And I think it would be really beneficial to sort of 356 00:15:56,100 --> 00:15:57,200 remove those negative connotations 357 00:15:57,200 --> 00:15:58,740 from disability, because if it was just a neutral thing, 358 00:15:58,740 --> 00:16:01,220 it's like, hey, I'm I'm disabled in this way. 359 00:16:01,380 --> 00:16:02,360 That's perfectly fine. 360 00:16:02,360 --> 00:16:03,600 And I'm not saying that, you know, 361 00:16:03,600 --> 00:16:06,000 deaf people should want to call themselves disabled or whatnot. 362 00:16:06,060 --> 00:16:07,040 I totally understand it. 363 00:16:07,040 --> 00:16:10,200 I'm just saying, as a general sort of societal move, having less of a stigma 364 00:16:10,200 --> 00:16:13,200 towards disability, I think would be a net positive for everyone. 365 00:16:13,260 --> 00:16:15,500 Yeah, absolutely. I completely agree. 366 00:16:15,500 --> 00:16:19,560 I, I, I had so many things that I started thinking about as well. 367 00:16:19,560 --> 00:16:22,820 Like if we're talking about like society and the way it views things. 368 00:16:23,120 --> 00:16:27,480 I was on the BBC, All That Glitters, jewelry making You were on the BBC? 369 00:16:27,500 --> 00:16:28,120 Yeah, I was on the BBC 370 00:16:29,420 --> 00:16:30,480 Oh my God, are we just dropping, like, fun things that we’ve done? 371 00:16:30,480 --> 00:16:34,760 No, but I was going to say, like as a deaf person watching a hearing person wear- 372 00:16:34,760 --> 00:16:39,020 put the earcuffs that had been made for me on, watching someone who was hearing 373 00:16:39,500 --> 00:16:41,960 put those on and like just seeing how they'd sort of 374 00:16:42,920 --> 00:16:46,700 like accessorized the ear and made it look cool. 375 00:16:46,700 --> 00:16:47,000 I was like, ugh. 376 00:16:47,000 --> 00:16:50,960 I wish everyone just could could wear jewelry like that. 377 00:16:50,960 --> 00:16:54,960 And like it was just what you said about sort of, like, just having this net place. 378 00:16:55,400 --> 00:16:57,600 Yeah. that society is at, would be, ah. 379 00:16:58,460 --> 00:16:59,940 If you're not understanding what I'm meaning. 380 00:16:59,940 --> 00:17:01,260 And you like, what are you talking about? 381 00:17:01,260 --> 00:17:05,160 Okay, let me just if you're watching this, let me just very quickly 382 00:17:05,160 --> 00:17:09,260 illuminate exactly what I mean. 383 00:17:09,260 --> 00:17:14,180 I am disabled in that I cannot see without like I can't see my 384 00:17:14,180 --> 00:17:15,740 my hand is in focus for everyone listening. 385 00:17:15,740 --> 00:17:18,820 I've just taken off my glasses because I don't have contacts in today. 386 00:17:19,520 --> 00:17:21,900 I can't see my hand in focus until it's here. 387 00:17:21,900 --> 00:17:23,940 For anyone listening, that's about six inches away from my face. 388 00:17:24,320 --> 00:17:27,940 I would literally be disabled if it were not for the fact that glasses 389 00:17:27,960 --> 00:17:33,380 are accessible and affordable and just just just easy to get. 390 00:17:33,380 --> 00:17:35,820 And people don't look down on people for wearing glasses to the point where, 391 00:17:36,020 --> 00:17:38,420 what you were saying there where, you know, glasses are now jewelry. 392 00:17:38,460 --> 00:17:40,960 People will wear glasses when they don't need to wear glasses 393 00:17:40,980 --> 00:17:42,060 because they look cool 394 00:17:42,060 --> 00:17:43,600 Absolutely In the same sense that I feel like you're saying, 395 00:17:43,600 --> 00:17:46,140 oh, it’d be cool if people wore hearing aids 396 00:17:46,140 --> 00:17:49,060 Just like earcuffs and like cool I think I think you're hearing aids 397 00:17:49,060 --> 00:17:50,240 look really tight. 398 00:17:50,240 --> 00:17:52,660 Like, Oh! [laughter] I would literally. 399 00:17:52,760 --> 00:17:54,180 I would literally wear that. 400 00:17:54,180 --> 00:17:57,260 I'm like, that's a cool like you've got like a red in your ear. 401 00:17:57,260 --> 00:17:57,740 That’s a cool way to accessorise. 402 00:17:57,740 --> 00:17:59,780 I think it looks like you’re about to go on stage 403 00:17:59,780 --> 00:18:02,160 I've started colour coordinating with the red. 404 00:18:02,160 --> 00:18:03,480 Like, honestly, here's the thing. 405 00:18:03,480 --> 00:18:07,580 I came from a place of being so ashamed of my deafness when I was, 406 00:18:07,580 --> 00:18:11,180 you know, especially okay for anyone watching who doesn't know who I am. 407 00:18:11,180 --> 00:18:13,540 I'm also trans and I used to have long hair 408 00:18:13,880 --> 00:18:18,240 and it would cover my hearing aids because I was too scared of people seeing them. 409 00:18:18,240 --> 00:18:22,200 But then so with transitioning, I had I wanted to cut my hair short. 410 00:18:22,200 --> 00:18:23,300 And that was like the first time 411 00:18:23,300 --> 00:18:25,580 in my life that I was showing off my hearing aids. 412 00:18:25,800 --> 00:18:28,440 And then I sort of started to reach a point where I was I, 413 00:18:28,680 --> 00:18:31,980 I actually shouldn't feel ashamed of this anymore. 414 00:18:31,980 --> 00:18:32,660 And anything, 415 00:18:32,660 --> 00:18:35,480 if anything, want to show it off and make it visible 416 00:18:35,660 --> 00:18:36,380 and especially what 417 00:18:36,380 --> 00:18:39,740 we've been saying about society and like how people perceive you, 418 00:18:40,200 --> 00:18:43,260 I kind of want to see I want people to see that I'm deaf 419 00:18:43,260 --> 00:18:45,800 because I need people to know that they need to be patient with me 420 00:18:45,800 --> 00:18:48,020 and one of the things that you were saying about, 421 00:18:49,380 --> 00:18:50,000 you know, if you've got 422 00:18:50,000 --> 00:18:53,300 ADHD and you've got this deadline, you you're asking them for patience. 423 00:18:53,300 --> 00:18:55,200 You're just asking them for understanding. 424 00:18:55,200 --> 00:19:00,240 And like, that's kind of how I want the public to to be. 425 00:19:00,240 --> 00:19:02,420 Like, most of the time they're fine when I told them I'm deaf 426 00:19:02,660 --> 00:19:04,580 and they’re like “Oh I'm really sorry I didn't realize.” 427 00:19:04,580 --> 00:19:07,720 But like I've not really had any major problems. 428 00:19:08,240 --> 00:19:09,960 I've had a couple, but. 429 00:19:09,960 --> 00:19:13,460 I would actually argue that I don't think people need to be patient with you. 430 00:19:13,700 --> 00:19:17,020 And this is this is coming from my interactions with you and other people 431 00:19:17,300 --> 00:19:17,940 in that 432 00:19:17,940 --> 00:19:19,880 I have seen situations and I've tried to be 433 00:19:19,880 --> 00:19:22,520 more conscious of this myself since having conversations with you about this. 434 00:19:22,640 --> 00:19:25,820 But all you need most of the time is if you're in 435 00:19:25,820 --> 00:19:28,740 a loud environment, is for people to look at you when they're talking. 436 00:19:28,980 --> 00:19:31,560 And it's not hard. It's not hard at all. 437 00:19:31,760 --> 00:19:34,820 But like, I look I look around when we're in a group talking, 438 00:19:34,820 --> 00:19:37,460 I look around and people just don't think about it. 439 00:19:37,800 --> 00:19:39,980 And all it takes is just, hey, 440 00:19:39,980 --> 00:19:43,740 think about this just a little bit, and it's it's all good. 441 00:19:43,740 --> 00:19:45,300 I don't even think you need patience because 442 00:19:45,300 --> 00:19:48,380 when people are giving you patience it's because they're not giving you 443 00:19:48,600 --> 00:19:49,800 what you need in the first place. 444 00:19:49,800 --> 00:19:52,460 You know, I mean, which is involving you I think what I mean is. 445 00:19:52,460 --> 00:19:52,940 Yeah. 446 00:19:52,940 --> 00:19:54,200 So like I've started, 447 00:19:54,200 --> 00:19:58,700 I have I've got this retail job recently and it's, it's, I won't say where it is 448 00:19:58,700 --> 00:20:01,560 because I don't want to dox myself, but it's a little, It's 449 00:20:02,120 --> 00:20:03,600 down in the description. 450 00:20:03,600 --> 00:20:06,420 It's in London somewhere and it's in London somewhere. 451 00:20:06,420 --> 00:20:07,980 And a lot of the customers that we get in 452 00:20:07,980 --> 00:20:11,540 might have an accent or might have flown in internationally from somewhere. 453 00:20:11,820 --> 00:20:14,220 And I really struggle with accents. Yeah. 454 00:20:14,280 --> 00:20:16,220 And, and stuff. 455 00:20:16,220 --> 00:20:19,040 So it's just like I guess patience in that sense 456 00:20:19,040 --> 00:20:21,620 because I will be asking them to repeat themselves a lot. 457 00:20:22,200 --> 00:20:24,020 But again, it's 458 00:20:24,020 --> 00:20:28,580 I was going to say in terms of like allyship to a deaf person, 459 00:20:28,580 --> 00:20:30,300 what you were saying within our friendship group. 460 00:20:30,300 --> 00:20:33,140 Noah’s birthday where we all went go kart racing 461 00:20:33,320 --> 00:20:35,640 and he literally everyone 462 00:20:36,180 --> 00:20:39,480 was gathered round getting the instructions before we went and did it. 463 00:20:39,480 --> 00:20:43,600 And Noah came and grabbed me and put me at the front like literally was “Mate, 464 00:20:43,700 --> 00:20:45,180 can you can you hear him okay? 465 00:20:45,180 --> 00:20:47,920 Can you lip read okay?” And I was just like, that is so considerate 466 00:20:48,000 --> 00:20:51,820 like that was a real standout moment to me where a friend is actually 467 00:20:53,280 --> 00:20:54,600 being considerate in that way. 468 00:20:54,600 --> 00:20:57,480 Yeah It's not like I expect people to make a massive deal 469 00:20:57,840 --> 00:21:00,580 out of it, but like what you said, just being considerate 470 00:21:00,600 --> 00:21:05,040 and like thinking, oh, there's, there's a deaf person in this situation. 471 00:21:05,420 --> 00:21:07,340 I don't want to exclude them. 472 00:21:07,340 --> 00:21:09,280 But you know, again, it's a bare it's the bare minimum. 473 00:21:09,280 --> 00:21:10,140 And again, to 474 00:21:10,140 --> 00:21:12,240 to bring it back to the glasses thing, this is not me being like, 475 00:21:12,240 --> 00:21:14,700 oh yeah, wearing glasses is the same as being blind or being deaf. 476 00:21:14,700 --> 00:21:15,440 That's not my point. 477 00:21:15,440 --> 00:21:20,480 My point is that it literally would be were it not for all of the infrastructure 478 00:21:20,660 --> 00:21:25,120 and, you know, social sort of accessibility that we've got to the 479 00:21:25,500 --> 00:21:30,560 to the sort of like aids that you need to, you know, sort of engage with the world 480 00:21:30,560 --> 00:21:32,980 when you when you like, when you have, like, myopia or something. 481 00:21:33,000 --> 00:21:37,580 There's also lots of positive social connotations to wearing glasses. 482 00:21:37,580 --> 00:21:37,940 Yeah. 483 00:21:38,120 --> 00:21:41,640 Like, and then I want someone once asked me about this. 484 00:21:41,820 --> 00:21:43,080 I don't know if you get this. 485 00:21:43,080 --> 00:21:46,240 I sometimes people just ask me things and expect me to know the answer 486 00:21:46,260 --> 00:21:47,560 because we do a science podcast 487 00:21:49,260 --> 00:21:50,240 all the time. 488 00:21:50,240 --> 00:21:52,860 They ask me like, Why are glasses seen as sexy? 489 00:21:52,860 --> 00:21:56,740 So I went away and did some research and like apparently it's like in part 490 00:21:56,760 --> 00:21:59,500 because there's some correlation between 491 00:22:00,660 --> 00:22:04,100 a gene that causes poor eyesight and intelligence level. 492 00:22:04,320 --> 00:22:06,840 Whether that's true, I don't know. 493 00:22:06,840 --> 00:22:10,400 But imagine if it was like, oh, you're wearing hearing aids. 494 00:22:10,400 --> 00:22:12,660 You must have fantastic fashion sense. 495 00:22:13,200 --> 00:22:14,040 Absolutely. 496 00:22:14,040 --> 00:22:16,520 I mean. Honestly, yeah. 497 00:22:17,180 --> 00:22:20,580 I don't want to I don't want to curtail this conversation, 498 00:22:20,580 --> 00:22:23,420 but I'm going to have to get into the science the last thing. 499 00:22:23,480 --> 00:22:24,480 So, yeah, no, no, no. 500 00:22:24,480 --> 00:22:25,860 Let's get into the science The last thing I'll say 501 00:22:25,860 --> 00:22:29,640 the last thing I'll say is again, look, glasses are 502 00:22:29,840 --> 00:22:32,880 glasses are a thing that are ubiquitous across our society. 503 00:22:32,880 --> 00:22:33,000 Right? 504 00:22:33,000 --> 00:22:35,700 We all we all know someone that wears glasses. 505 00:22:35,700 --> 00:22:37,040 In fact, we don't even think about people that we know 506 00:22:37,040 --> 00:22:38,940 that wear glasses because we don't even think about it. Right. 507 00:22:38,940 --> 00:22:41,780 And with a lot of with a lot of different aids for disability 508 00:22:41,780 --> 00:22:46,160 or a lot of different disabilities, we could just have that view, 509 00:22:46,160 --> 00:22:49,680 that sort of outlook and that mode of dealing with them. 510 00:22:50,060 --> 00:22:51,500 And yet we don't. Right. 511 00:22:51,500 --> 00:22:54,840 And what I'm saying, like all it takes is that little bit of consideration. 512 00:22:54,840 --> 00:22:56,720 Like, if I'm not wearing my glasses 513 00:22:56,720 --> 00:22:58,780 and someone knows that, like I've just woken up and I'm like, “Oh, 514 00:22:58,780 --> 00:22:59,480 I don’t have my glasses 515 00:22:59,480 --> 00:23:01,820 on” or I’m like “Hey, can, can you point out where they are? 516 00:23:01,820 --> 00:23:03,500 Because I don't remember where I left them.” 517 00:23:03,500 --> 00:23:05,000 like it's just being Oh, there they are. 518 00:23:05,000 --> 00:23:05,940 Let me show you this on your phone 519 00:23:05,940 --> 00:23:07,560 and like holding it up to my face so I can see it. 520 00:23:07,560 --> 00:23:10,700 It's like little things like that that aren't even like things. 521 00:23:10,700 --> 00:23:13,560 It's just bearing in mind who you're interacting with. Right. 522 00:23:13,560 --> 00:23:15,060 I think that's all it takes. 523 00:23:15,060 --> 00:23:17,120 By the way, I was going to say, you look so smart. 524 00:23:17,120 --> 00:23:19,700 Thank you. In an intelligent way, not in a formal way. 525 00:23:19,700 --> 00:23:22,080 I put on my glasses while Corry was talking about 526 00:23:26,240 --> 00:23:28,220 glasses Ding-a-ling-ling, is that the ad bell? 527 00:23:28,220 --> 00:23:30,620 He’s ringing again? Why’s he ringing this time, Corry? 528 00:23:30,660 --> 00:23:32,640 He's ringing for After Dark, Luke. 529 00:23:32,640 --> 00:23:34,260 Why have we gendered our ad bell, Corry? 530 00:23:34,260 --> 00:23:39,180 Because he's a boy and I want to respect him just like I respect After Dark 531 00:23:39,360 --> 00:23:44,460 our sister show to this podcast, Sci Guys After Dark is what happens 532 00:23:44,460 --> 00:23:48,400 after Sci Guys ends - we just chat about whatever we want to chat about. 533 00:23:48,400 --> 00:23:49,100 Have you ever been listening 534 00:23:49,100 --> 00:23:51,660 to Sci Guys and gone, “God, I wish there were less facts”. 535 00:23:52,340 --> 00:23:54,080 Then you can listen to After Dark “I wish 536 00:23:54,080 --> 00:23:57,620 there were more opinions in this show.” More philosophy and politics. 537 00:23:57,840 --> 00:24:00,020 Yes, then After Dark is the show. 538 00:24:00,140 --> 00:24:02,920 Corry and I sit down and maybe with a guest sometimes 539 00:24:03,080 --> 00:24:05,900 sit down and discuss just more sort of floaty 540 00:24:06,120 --> 00:24:10,380 woo woo ideas about things we think with our brains. 541 00:24:10,380 --> 00:24:13,340 And where can they watch this wonderful, wonderful show, Luke? 542 00:24:13,340 --> 00:24:17,700 Well, they can listen to it and watch it at Patreon.com/SciGuys 543 00:24:17,700 --> 00:24:19,800 our Patreon, where you can also support us 544 00:24:19,800 --> 00:24:22,500 and help us keep doing this thing that you apparently like us doing. 545 00:24:22,500 --> 00:24:24,560 Did you say Patreon.com/SciGuys? 546 00:24:24,560 --> 00:24:27,980 Yes I think I did I think I did say Patreon.com/SciGuys. 547 00:24:27,980 --> 00:24:29,840 Well, if you want to listen to After Dark, it seems like 548 00:24:29,840 --> 00:24:34,520 you should get to Patreon.com/SciGuys That’s Patreon.com/SciGuys 549 00:24:34,520 --> 00:24:36,060 in case you weren't paying attention. 550 00:24:36,060 --> 00:24:38,160 Now pay attention because we're about to start the show. 551 00:24:38,160 --> 00:24:42,040 Oh, my attention has been paid and will continue to be paid until the end 552 00:24:42,180 --> 00:24:45,620 when I go home. 553 00:24:45,620 --> 00:24:48,360 Let's get into the science. So excited for the science. 554 00:24:48,380 --> 00:24:48,780 Oh, good. 555 00:24:48,780 --> 00:24:51,380 I'm glad. I love. I love the science. This is great. 556 00:24:51,540 --> 00:24:55,580 So let's just quickly run through deafness again and the causes 557 00:24:55,580 --> 00:24:56,780 and I'm going to fire through those 558 00:24:56,780 --> 00:24:58,200 because there's some other stuff I want to talk about. 559 00:24:58,200 --> 00:24:59,540 We definitely need to get to. 560 00:24:59,540 --> 00:25:01,760 So over 5% of the world's population 561 00:25:02,280 --> 00:25:05,520 require rehabilitation to address their disabling hearing loss, 562 00:25:05,640 --> 00:25:07,220 according to the World Health Organization. 563 00:25:07,220 --> 00:25:12,020 Again, this is this kind of shows you how sort of the medical community 564 00:25:12,260 --> 00:25:16,560 treats deafness very much as a problem to be fixed, 565 00:25:16,680 --> 00:25:20,820 which I understand the pushback from the deaf community on that, 566 00:25:20,820 --> 00:25:23,080 because there seems to be a very interesting divide 567 00:25:23,100 --> 00:25:26,060 that we can get into later when it comes to, you know, sort of 568 00:25:26,640 --> 00:25:29,900 whether basically how people view deafness, because some people 569 00:25:29,900 --> 00:25:32,600 definitely view deafness as a disability and well, I don't want my kids to be deaf. 570 00:25:32,600 --> 00:25:34,400 And then there's other people in the deaf community that are like, 571 00:25:34,400 --> 00:25:35,400 deafness is fine. 572 00:25:35,400 --> 00:25:37,580 I want my kids to be part of this culture. 573 00:25:37,580 --> 00:25:38,580 I want them to be deaf. 574 00:25:38,580 --> 00:25:41,920 And both of those views are entirely valid 575 00:25:42,740 --> 00:25:46,340 and it's such a it's such a complex kind of conversation to have. 576 00:25:46,560 --> 00:25:48,480 So let's just let's just rush through this. So. 577 00:25:48,480 --> 00:25:49,040 Yeah of course. 578 00:25:49,040 --> 00:25:52,640 Disabling hearing loss refers to hearing loss greater than 38 decibels 579 00:25:52,860 --> 00:25:54,020 in the better hearing ear. 580 00:25:54,020 --> 00:25:57,040 Essentially, there's a certain level beyond which if you can't hear 581 00:25:57,320 --> 00:26:01,040 like this, this amount, we will say that is disabling. 582 00:26:01,040 --> 00:26:04,520 That's disabling hearing loss, disabling, obviously in quotes there 583 00:26:04,940 --> 00:26:09,080 and hearing loss, the prevalence of it increases with age 584 00:26:09,600 --> 00:26:13,920 among those older than 60 years, over 25% are affected by disabling hearing loss. 585 00:26:14,580 --> 00:26:17,460 And it's interesting as well, because there's a difference here between 586 00:26:17,720 --> 00:26:18,840 hearing loss and deafness. 587 00:26:18,840 --> 00:26:21,240 So we kind of covered a little bit of hearing loss, hard of hearing 588 00:26:21,380 --> 00:26:23,520 which you might have seen H.O.H. 589 00:26:23,520 --> 00:26:27,240 That refers to people that have got hearing loss ranging from mild to severe. 590 00:26:27,720 --> 00:26:30,380 And if you're hard of hearing, usually people communicate 591 00:26:30,680 --> 00:26:31,980 through spoken language 592 00:26:31,980 --> 00:26:34,760 rather than through sign But according to the World Health 593 00:26:35,000 --> 00:26:38,480 Organization, according to the NHS, they can also benefit from hearing aids, 594 00:26:38,480 --> 00:26:42,200 cochlear implants and other assistive devices as well as captioning 595 00:26:42,780 --> 00:26:45,680 and deaf people mostly have profound hearing loss, 596 00:26:46,320 --> 00:26:50,180 which means generally very, very little or no hearing 597 00:26:50,720 --> 00:26:55,760 and usually, or not usually, they often can use sign languages for communication. 598 00:26:55,760 --> 00:26:57,380 But then that doesn't apply to all deaf people 599 00:26:57,380 --> 00:27:00,620 because some deaf people lip read, some deaf people use spoken language 600 00:27:00,620 --> 00:27:03,780 and some people have you know, it it's a spectrum. 601 00:27:03,780 --> 00:27:05,700 All of these people are people are individuals. 602 00:27:05,700 --> 00:27:06,740 I was just going to say you have 603 00:27:06,740 --> 00:27:10,840 you have to ears so so so one ear it could be completely profound 604 00:27:10,860 --> 00:27:14,240 like completely deaf the other it could work perfectly fine. 605 00:27:14,540 --> 00:27:17,260 So so And we use the word deaf to refer 606 00:27:17,280 --> 00:27:20,520 to everyone and that's useful and helpful. 607 00:27:20,520 --> 00:27:21,860 Do we, because in your definition 608 00:27:21,860 --> 00:27:25,700 you said like -30 something decibels in the better hearing ear. 609 00:27:26,120 --> 00:27:26,460 Yeah. 610 00:27:26,460 --> 00:27:30,340 And I mean the other ear is then going to be more deaf 611 00:27:30,360 --> 00:27:31,820 than that better hearing ear? Yeah. 612 00:27:31,820 --> 00:27:34,220 So you judge it by the best the better hearing. 613 00:27:34,220 --> 00:27:34,880 Yeah. Yeah. 614 00:27:34,880 --> 00:27:39,420 But my point is that still, you know, the level of you would still use 615 00:27:39,420 --> 00:27:42,700 if someone is sort of got hearing loss in one ear 616 00:27:42,920 --> 00:27:46,280 and is sort of say profoundly deaf in the other ear, 617 00:27:46,760 --> 00:27:49,740 you would still probably you would still probably say they're deaf generally. 618 00:27:49,740 --> 00:27:49,880 Right. 619 00:27:49,880 --> 00:27:53,900 I'm just saying socially speaking, if anyone's got like a decent degree of, 620 00:27:53,900 --> 00:27:56,480 you know, hearing loss or is profoundly deaf in any sort of way, 621 00:27:56,480 --> 00:27:58,640 you know, it's call it just call them deaf. 622 00:27:58,640 --> 00:28:00,660 Generally, someone can't. Okay. 623 00:28:00,680 --> 00:28:03,080 To put it to put it very bluntly, if someone can't hear good, 624 00:28:03,500 --> 00:28:06,260 you usually say that they're deaf, that that's kind of what I'm touching 625 00:28:06,260 --> 00:28:06,620 on, right? 626 00:28:06,620 --> 00:28:08,280 That we've we've got this sort of one phrase 627 00:28:08,280 --> 00:28:11,760 that we tend to use for people that don't hear so good. Yes. 628 00:28:12,240 --> 00:28:15,320 So let's just talk briefly about causes of deafness. 629 00:28:15,320 --> 00:28:19,220 I'm going to go through these in sort of the sort of your lifetime. 630 00:28:19,220 --> 00:28:21,920 I guess so, yeah. You know, sort of chronologically. 631 00:28:22,080 --> 00:28:24,200 So the prenatal period before you're born, 632 00:28:24,200 --> 00:28:26,120 those would generally be genetic factors. 633 00:28:26,120 --> 00:28:29,240 So there's hereditary and non hereditary hearing loss. 634 00:28:29,240 --> 00:28:32,720 So you can also have infections in sort of like intrauterine infection. 635 00:28:32,720 --> 00:28:36,120 So infections could cause hearing loss, you know, before the child is born. 636 00:28:36,720 --> 00:28:38,540 And again, I'm saying hearing loss, 637 00:28:38,540 --> 00:28:42,080 there's not really a quick and easy way of describing that. 638 00:28:43,040 --> 00:28:46,500 I know it sucks, but we move. 639 00:28:46,500 --> 00:28:48,540 Okay. We're going to have to we're going to have to get through this. 640 00:28:49,100 --> 00:28:49,920 The perinatal period. 641 00:28:49,920 --> 00:28:52,400 So that's around birth, you know, the time surrounding birth. 642 00:28:52,580 --> 00:28:53,660 So that's birth asphyxia. 643 00:28:53,660 --> 00:28:56,060 So if you are kind of if you don't get enough oxygen during birth, 644 00:28:56,900 --> 00:28:59,880 if you've got severe jaundice, when you're a newborn, 645 00:29:00,360 --> 00:29:04,580 if you've got a low birth weight or other sort of perinatal morbidities 646 00:29:05,220 --> 00:29:06,440 and how you sort of manage that. 647 00:29:06,440 --> 00:29:09,680 So essentially, any any sort of serious problems can cause deafness 648 00:29:09,920 --> 00:29:12,260 around the time when a sort of child is born. 649 00:29:12,800 --> 00:29:14,600 And in childhood and adolescence, chronic ear 650 00:29:14,600 --> 00:29:18,540 infections can cause hearing loss fluid in the ear. 651 00:29:18,540 --> 00:29:20,700 So there's different types of deafness as well. We'll get into those in a second. 652 00:29:20,840 --> 00:29:23,820 But fluid in the ear can cause hearing loss meningitis when you're older, 653 00:29:23,820 --> 00:29:28,220 chronic diseases, smoking, also autosclerosis, 654 00:29:28,460 --> 00:29:32,780 age related sensoneuraldegeneration and sudden sensoneural hearing loss. 655 00:29:32,960 --> 00:29:36,480 So essentially as you get older, it tends to be more 656 00:29:36,480 --> 00:29:39,640 a case of damage and serious diseases than when you're younger, 657 00:29:40,620 --> 00:29:43,280 the more infections and that sort of stuff. 658 00:29:43,280 --> 00:29:46,420 And then throughout your life, I mean, trauma to the ear or head, 659 00:29:46,440 --> 00:29:50,720 loud noises and loud sounds, you know, certain sort of medicines and chemicals. 660 00:29:50,720 --> 00:29:52,320 Going to a NoahFinnce gig Going to a 661 00:29:52,320 --> 00:29:55,780 NoahFinnce gig - ah don’t say that that, Connor cares about your ears. 662 00:29:56,060 --> 00:29:58,980 He’s the sound guy. 663 00:29:58,980 --> 00:30:01,320 infections, nutritional deficiencies, all of that sort of stuff. 664 00:30:01,320 --> 00:30:01,740 Right. 665 00:30:02,100 --> 00:30:03,360 But let's talk about the types of hearing loss, 666 00:30:03,360 --> 00:30:04,340 because I think this is kind of interesting. 667 00:30:04,340 --> 00:30:06,320 We don't usually sort of think about these. 668 00:30:06,320 --> 00:30:08,500 You've got conductive hearing loss and that's caused by something 669 00:30:08,520 --> 00:30:11,000 that stops sound from getting through to the outer or middle ear. 670 00:30:11,000 --> 00:30:12,140 Remember we spoke about those. 671 00:30:12,140 --> 00:30:13,380 So like if it's 672 00:30:13,380 --> 00:30:16,020 sort of like the outside of your ear, that sort of like tube that goes in 673 00:30:16,160 --> 00:30:19,020 or the bones there, that would be a sort of outer and middle ear. 674 00:30:19,200 --> 00:30:20,520 If something is stopping the sound 675 00:30:20,520 --> 00:30:23,780 from passing through there, that would be conductive hearing loss. 676 00:30:24,260 --> 00:30:26,320 And usually that can be treated with surgery or medicine 677 00:30:26,340 --> 00:30:28,680 if you've got fluid filling your ear or wax filling your ear, 678 00:30:29,160 --> 00:30:31,560 you would have conductive hearing loss, right? 679 00:30:31,560 --> 00:30:34,260 And then you've got senso- sensorineural hearing loss. 680 00:30:34,560 --> 00:30:37,200 I find that word so frustr- Oh yeah yeah yeah. 681 00:30:37,200 --> 00:30:37,800 It's a tough word. 682 00:30:37,800 --> 00:30:38,780 Is it like sensory-neural. 683 00:30:38,780 --> 00:30:40,380 Sensoro? 684 00:30:40,380 --> 00:30:44,020 It’s “Sensor” S E N S O R, I and then neural; 685 00:30:44,060 --> 00:30:47,940 sensorineural Sensorineural It’s hard to say Sensorineural Sensorineural - 686 00:30:47,940 --> 00:30:51,220 AH So that's that's when there's a problem in the 687 00:30:51,240 --> 00:30:54,260 in the way that the inner ear or the hearing nerve works. 688 00:30:54,260 --> 00:30:55,280 So your auditory nerve 689 00:30:55,280 --> 00:30:58,980 if there's a problem with that that would be sensorineural makes sense. 690 00:30:58,980 --> 00:31:02,960 You know like sort of the neuro sensory sort of part of your body. 691 00:31:03,380 --> 00:31:07,700 Mixed hearing loss is obviously a mix of conductive and sensorineural hearing loss. 692 00:31:07,880 --> 00:31:11,960 And then there's auditory neuropathy spectrum disorder, and that occurs 693 00:31:11,960 --> 00:31:13,580 when sound enters that you're normally. 694 00:31:13,580 --> 00:31:17,600 But because of damage to the inner ear or hearing nerve, the sound isn't sort 695 00:31:17,600 --> 00:31:21,540 of it's the brain can't really figure out what's going on with the sound. 696 00:31:21,540 --> 00:31:21,740 Right. 697 00:31:21,740 --> 00:31:23,840 So, you know, the sound is coming in all right 698 00:31:23,840 --> 00:31:25,340 and the sort of signals being made all right. 699 00:31:25,340 --> 00:31:28,340 But the brain can't necessarily make sense of the signal. 700 00:31:28,340 --> 00:31:30,920 Decipher it almost, or make like. 701 00:31:31,280 --> 00:31:32,060 Yeah, so, so. 702 00:31:32,060 --> 00:31:33,620 Actually ge the information? 703 00:31:33,620 --> 00:31:35,100 So it's what I've got here is 704 00:31:35,100 --> 00:31:37,560 that it's not organized in a way that the brain can understand. Right. 705 00:31:37,560 --> 00:31:41,600 So it's the signal isn't it's not being deciphered. 706 00:31:41,880 --> 00:31:45,680 It's not decipherable by the brain Because I feel like when I, 707 00:31:45,680 --> 00:31:50,840 when I am listening to things, I'm also having to like piece together 708 00:31:50,840 --> 00:31:53,420 all of those sounds in my brain, like as a deaf person as well. 709 00:31:53,420 --> 00:31:53,820 Like it's 710 00:31:53,820 --> 00:31:57,560 not just when you're communicating with someone, 30% of it isn't lip reading. 711 00:31:57,880 --> 00:31:59,460 30% of it is me reading your lips. 712 00:31:59,460 --> 00:32:02,420 And then the other percentages of it would be like, I don't know, 713 00:32:02,640 --> 00:32:06,320 your facial expressions, your gestures, what sound to my actually hearing. 714 00:32:06,320 --> 00:32:06,720 Yeah. 715 00:32:06,720 --> 00:32:11,600 And like trying to like the tone of voice, all of that comes into making 716 00:32:12,560 --> 00:32:13,820 a sentence. 717 00:32:13,820 --> 00:32:15,600 Yeah. Like understanding. That's interesting. 718 00:32:15,600 --> 00:32:19,820 So would you say that you when you are hearing 719 00:32:19,820 --> 00:32:24,000 someone say a sentence, are you not are you more sort of 720 00:32:24,000 --> 00:32:28,980 like you're getting the meaning as opposed to hearing every single part of it? 721 00:32:29,180 --> 00:32:31,020 Yeah, absolutely. Like the context. 722 00:32:31,020 --> 00:32:31,280 Yeah. 723 00:32:31,280 --> 00:32:35,180 Is like, yeah, just whenever I'm having a conversation with someone, it's, 724 00:32:36,180 --> 00:32:40,160 it's like I am listening, but I'm also having to piece together 725 00:32:40,160 --> 00:32:43,780 all of this information to, to, to make the full picture 726 00:32:44,180 --> 00:32:46,740 and like to fully understand what is going on. 727 00:32:46,740 --> 00:32:49,440 You know, I think hearing people do that more often than they think as well. 728 00:32:49,440 --> 00:32:52,080 Obviously, you can fall back and rely on your hearing. 729 00:32:52,280 --> 00:32:54,860 But if someone's got an accent you're not quite familiar with, 730 00:32:55,140 --> 00:32:57,900 you're looking at, it's easier when you're looking at their face, right? 731 00:32:57,920 --> 00:32:58,280 Yeah. 732 00:32:58,280 --> 00:33:02,400 And if you've got like issues with processing audio sometimes. 733 00:33:02,600 --> 00:33:03,740 So like sometimes if I'm in a, 734 00:33:03,740 --> 00:33:07,260 if I'm at a party or if I, if I'm focusing on the wrong thing, 735 00:33:07,560 --> 00:33:10,980 sounds just someone talking just won't, it won't be words. 736 00:33:11,120 --> 00:33:11,840 Yeah. 737 00:33:12,060 --> 00:33:14,820 And I've got to then back figure out. 738 00:33:14,840 --> 00:33:18,120 Okay, from the context and from what I saw, what are they. 739 00:33:18,140 --> 00:33:18,800 What are they. 740 00:33:18,800 --> 00:33:19,520 What did they say. 741 00:33:19,520 --> 00:33:23,760 Yeah, I think people don't necessarily especially people who don't have any 742 00:33:23,760 --> 00:33:28,460 like non-normative like differences with their sensory perception 743 00:33:28,700 --> 00:33:32,160 don't necessarily realize that when you are when you're perceiving 744 00:33:32,160 --> 00:33:36,680 anything, when you're perceiving audio or video or whatever, you're perceiving 745 00:33:36,900 --> 00:33:41,240 your perceiving your brain's best guess as to what's going on. Yes. 746 00:33:41,680 --> 00:33:44,060 You're not actually perceiving what's going on. 747 00:33:44,300 --> 00:33:47,180 Your perceiving a sort of best guess hallucination of what's going on, 748 00:33:47,180 --> 00:33:52,500 which is why, you know, I sometimes look at a jumper and I think it's my cat. 749 00:33:52,500 --> 00:33:52,820 Yeah. 750 00:33:52,820 --> 00:33:57,200 Or I hear someone say a different word and I think it's my name. 751 00:33:57,380 --> 00:34:01,100 But I, I heard that my brain told me my name was said 752 00:34:01,280 --> 00:34:04,460 and I saw my cat there, but there's just a jumper there. 753 00:34:04,500 --> 00:34:06,260 It's like the Yanny Laurel thing, right? Yeah. 754 00:34:06,260 --> 00:34:08,260 So the Yanny Laurel thing is there's this one 755 00:34:08,280 --> 00:34:11,300 audio recording that can sound like it's saying Yanny or it's saying Laurel. 756 00:34:11,540 --> 00:34:14,720 You can kind of shift which one you're hearing by reading the word. 757 00:34:15,000 --> 00:34:18,260 And this is what this is kind of what I really want to point out 758 00:34:18,500 --> 00:34:22,260 is that I'm not saying that, you know, us having to figure out things 759 00:34:22,260 --> 00:34:24,500 when we don't quite hear them properly is exactly the same as being deaf. 760 00:34:24,500 --> 00:34:28,720 But my point is that everyone kind of does this to some degree. 761 00:34:29,040 --> 00:34:33,360 It's just like if you're deaf, you've got less information coming in. 762 00:34:33,360 --> 00:34:36,800 It's really got to rely on this stuff that we just kind of use as like 763 00:34:37,040 --> 00:34:39,260 little helpers, you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah. 764 00:34:39,260 --> 00:34:43,760 Those, those things that are maybe like little hints, Nudges, yeah 765 00:34:43,920 --> 00:34:47,400 are actually like quite big indicators for deaf people, I would say. 766 00:34:48,220 --> 00:34:51,340 Phoenix's mum Sophie explained it really well to me as well, 767 00:34:51,340 --> 00:34:53,480 like just the idea of having to decipher everything. 768 00:34:53,480 --> 00:34:54,700 Like it's 769 00:34:54,700 --> 00:34:57,500 like you've got all of this information and then you have to piece it together. 770 00:34:57,500 --> 00:35:00,220 Seems exhausting. Is exhausting. 771 00:35:00,220 --> 00:35:02,760 Deaf people will often take hearing 772 00:35:02,760 --> 00:35:05,880 breaks, or deaf breaks, whatever you want to call it. 773 00:35:06,220 --> 00:35:08,440 I think this is really going to be beneficial for people listening 774 00:35:09,320 --> 00:35:10,640 that aren't deaf. 775 00:35:10,640 --> 00:35:14,180 Corry, think about what you're saying. 776 00:35:14,180 --> 00:35:14,640 No, earlier 777 00:35:15,060 --> 00:35:18,280 you said definitely, and I didn't want to interrupt you, but I was like “haha deaf” 778 00:35:18,960 --> 00:35:22,280 Every single time, every single- Look if you're ,if 779 00:35:22,280 --> 00:35:25,760 you're watching or listening, Elliot and I are friends. 780 00:35:25,760 --> 00:35:29,180 And often we will we will make some 781 00:35:29,580 --> 00:35:32,580 some very risque deaf jokes with each other. 782 00:35:32,620 --> 00:35:34,800 Oh, absolutely. And all in good fun. 783 00:35:34,800 --> 00:35:36,380 And only at Elliot's expense. 784 00:35:36,380 --> 00:35:40,700 I mean, Elliot literally started - we were about to hit record and he goes, 785 00:35:41,040 --> 00:35:44,440 I wanna keep a tally of how many deaf jokes you can sneak into the episode 786 00:35:45,000 --> 00:35:48,540 and Corry’s like, No, no, you can do that if you want. 787 00:35:49,720 --> 00:35:51,000 I will not be doing that. 788 00:35:51,000 --> 00:35:53,440 I will be nice this time For once, for once 789 00:35:54,780 --> 00:35:56,680 He’s only nice when he's being perceived. 790 00:35:56,680 --> 00:35:57,480 Yeah. 791 00:35:57,480 --> 00:35:59,480 Well only like nice when I’m being recorded. 792 00:35:59,480 --> 00:36:01,220 That's, that's the key there. 793 00:36:01,220 --> 00:36:02,100 No. So I think this will be 794 00:36:02,100 --> 00:36:05,900 really helpful though for people that are listening that maybe don't have 795 00:36:05,900 --> 00:36:09,220 any deaf friends or family members and anyone in their life. 796 00:36:09,740 --> 00:36:13,760 Because I think that's something that we don't tend to think about. 797 00:36:13,760 --> 00:36:17,020 Like, I think there's sometimes a perception of deaf people as being 798 00:36:17,040 --> 00:36:20,240 like angry, angry at stuff for seemingly no reason. 799 00:36:20,240 --> 00:36:21,980 It's like, well, hold on. 800 00:36:21,980 --> 00:36:24,360 Just imagine you are living in a world where you 801 00:36:24,480 --> 00:36:27,960 you are able to interact with, you know, other people perfectly fine. 802 00:36:28,620 --> 00:36:31,800 But the majority of people refuse to interact with you in a way 803 00:36:32,040 --> 00:36:33,980 that was, you know, natural to you. 804 00:36:33,980 --> 00:36:37,340 And they instead insisted that you do this 805 00:36:37,340 --> 00:36:41,120 very, very tiring thing all the time and don't complain about it. 806 00:36:41,360 --> 00:36:43,940 And also make them feel good about it, too. 807 00:36:44,680 --> 00:36:47,200 That's like I would be I wouldn't be able to do that. 808 00:36:47,200 --> 00:36:49,540 I'd be pretty wound up all the time if that were me to be honest. 809 00:36:49,560 --> 00:36:51,740 I can't really like can’t really be bothered with it. 810 00:36:51,740 --> 00:36:55,340 And, you know, like if you think about that, there you go. 811 00:36:55,380 --> 00:36:57,480 That's why that's why that people are annoyed at you sometimes. 812 00:36:57,660 --> 00:36:58,680 That's why. Yeah. 813 00:36:58,680 --> 00:36:59,280 And there's 814 00:36:59,280 --> 00:37:03,200 well there's something in the deaf community called dinner table syndrome 815 00:37:03,480 --> 00:37:06,560 that is, you know, where you're sat at the dinner table and you 816 00:37:07,040 --> 00:37:09,640 as a deaf person, you can't be interacting as well 817 00:37:09,660 --> 00:37:13,080 as everyone else can, like especially just in group settings in general. 818 00:37:13,920 --> 00:37:15,140 So yeah, no, I agree, I agree. 819 00:37:15,140 --> 00:37:17,140 I think for like anyone that is listening, like 820 00:37:18,260 --> 00:37:21,680 just we're talking about some really good points of to consider. 821 00:37:22,040 --> 00:37:24,380 So consider them, just consider them. 822 00:37:24,380 --> 00:37:26,000 No, so let's move on. 823 00:37:26,000 --> 00:37:28,280 We've spoken a little bit about sort of the different types of deafness. 824 00:37:28,280 --> 00:37:30,360 I was going to talk about how hearing aids work. 825 00:37:30,360 --> 00:37:34,220 But look, put it this way, there's a microphone, an amplifier and a speaker. 826 00:37:34,620 --> 00:37:37,440 They just they just chuck the sound right 827 00:37:37,440 --> 00:37:40,680 into the part of your ear and make it super bloody loud. 828 00:37:40,920 --> 00:37:42,240 That is how they work. 829 00:37:42,240 --> 00:37:43,700 They live literally. It literally is. 830 00:37:43,700 --> 00:37:45,920 If you have a microphone, 831 00:37:45,920 --> 00:37:49,360 there's your input and then you've got your output, which is your amplifier. 832 00:37:49,360 --> 00:37:52,320 And now imagine or like a really, really tiny small scale. 833 00:37:52,580 --> 00:37:55,740 And also that's why, you know, when you get feedback on a microphone, 834 00:37:55,860 --> 00:37:57,880 that's why the hearing aids will also do Oh no, I know. 835 00:37:58,220 --> 00:38:01,640 [Hearing aid feedback] Oh, gosh, whenever you go to hug Elliot, 836 00:38:01,920 --> 00:38:03,920 every now and then you'll just hear the feedback. 837 00:38:04,080 --> 00:38:05,520 And I'm like “heheheh” 838 00:38:05,520 --> 00:38:08,820 Okay, you know, it’s so sweet when we were all like, 839 00:38:08,820 --> 00:38:11,100 people were able to see each other after the pandemic again. 840 00:38:11,100 --> 00:38:12,840 I remember being able to give my friends hugs 841 00:38:12,840 --> 00:38:16,320 for the first time and people being like, Oh my gosh, that's the Elliot sound. 842 00:38:16,620 --> 00:38:20,300 And I was like, That's so sweet, actually, that you associate the feedback 843 00:38:20,300 --> 00:38:21,680 with giving me a hug. 844 00:38:21,680 --> 00:38:23,700 And it's like a little happy squeak. 845 00:38:23,700 --> 00:38:24,640 Yeah, it is, you 846 00:38:25,680 --> 00:38:25,920 know? 847 00:38:25,920 --> 00:38:28,660 So that's roughly how hearing aids work, uh cochlear 848 00:38:29,040 --> 00:38:33,240 implants are a kind of hearing aids that get sort of implanted in your head. 849 00:38:33,240 --> 00:38:36,220 We can do a whole episode on hearing aids and and hearing implants 850 00:38:36,240 --> 00:38:38,160 and all of that sort of stuff at some point. 851 00:38:38,160 --> 00:38:41,920 But I really, really want to move on to sort of the importance of inclusion 852 00:38:41,940 --> 00:38:45,420 here, because there was a study that was done and I read an article 853 00:38:45,420 --> 00:38:48,540 sort of about it and I read around it 854 00:38:48,540 --> 00:38:52,100 that found that the percentage of undergraduate and postgraduate STEM 855 00:38:52,100 --> 00:38:56,700 students who were deaf or had a serious hearing impairment stayed at just 0.3%. 856 00:38:56,700 --> 00:39:00,420 Between 2007/8 and 2018/9 in the UK. 857 00:39:00,480 --> 00:39:04,920 And in the UK, 1.3% of the population are severely or profoundly deaf. 858 00:39:05,160 --> 00:39:08,900 So 1.3% of the population is deaf, let's say, 859 00:39:09,140 --> 00:39:12,160 and 0.3% of uni students between 860 00:39:12,180 --> 00:39:15,620 2007 and 2018 were deaf. 861 00:39:15,860 --> 00:39:18,000 That is a massive disparity, right? 862 00:39:18,180 --> 00:39:20,660 You would expect to see roughly 1.3%. 863 00:39:21,180 --> 00:39:23,960 If not, what barriers are there for deaf people? 864 00:39:24,500 --> 00:39:26,700 There are obviously a lot of barriers in place. 865 00:39:26,700 --> 00:39:31,040 You know, sort of going to university and studying STEM for deaf people. 866 00:39:31,040 --> 00:39:33,300 And you know, there are some that you might not think about. 867 00:39:33,300 --> 00:39:34,620 So obviously 868 00:39:34,640 --> 00:39:38,820 not having sort of interpreters is is one thing that is that is an issue. 869 00:39:38,840 --> 00:39:39,980 That's a big one. 870 00:39:39,980 --> 00:39:40,560 That's a big one. 871 00:39:40,560 --> 00:39:41,900 The amount of deaf friends that would be like, 872 00:39:41,900 --> 00:39:43,440 well, I turned up to the shoot 873 00:39:43,440 --> 00:39:45,860 or this thing or whatever, and there wasn't an interpreter there. 874 00:39:45,860 --> 00:39:48,060 So therefore I couldn't participate. 875 00:39:48,060 --> 00:39:51,080 Yeah, it would literally cut off that participation for them. 876 00:39:51,080 --> 00:39:52,940 They can't. They can't. Exactly. 877 00:39:52,940 --> 00:39:55,460 But that's and that's just one part as well. Right? 878 00:39:55,460 --> 00:39:57,060 Like and this is the 879 00:39:57,060 --> 00:39:58,880 that's the sort of not the most obvious one, 880 00:39:58,880 --> 00:40:00,920 but it's probably the one that your mind would jump to immediately. 881 00:40:01,200 --> 00:40:05,400 But another part of that as well is the think about sort of BSL, 882 00:40:05,400 --> 00:40:07,880 think about sign language, how it works, right? 883 00:40:08,720 --> 00:40:12,380 Do you think there are going to be signs like simple signs 884 00:40:12,540 --> 00:40:16,260 for the complex words that are used in in science? 885 00:40:16,860 --> 00:40:19,640 No, there were I don't I wouldn't be surprised 886 00:40:19,640 --> 00:40:23,540 if it had to be finger spelled or like shortened in some way. 887 00:40:23,700 --> 00:40:24,660 Exactly. 888 00:40:24,660 --> 00:40:28,820 And finger spelling is so I mean, if you want to explain, go ahead. 889 00:40:28,820 --> 00:40:29,600 What finger spelling is? 890 00:40:29,600 --> 00:40:33,020 Oh, finger spelling is just where you take the BSL alphabet. 891 00:40:33,020 --> 00:40:36,720 So like A, B, C, D, all of your five, 892 00:40:36,800 --> 00:40:40,100 five vowels on your fingers here because you've got five fingers. 893 00:40:40,100 --> 00:40:40,800 It makes sense. 894 00:40:40,800 --> 00:40:43,880 AEIOU Anyway, when you're finger spelling, that is literally 895 00:40:43,880 --> 00:40:47,040 just spelling out the word using BSL. 896 00:40:47,040 --> 00:40:51,140 But that takes a lot longer than if you if if this is a sign for like work, right? 897 00:40:51,500 --> 00:40:57,920 So I could do work or I could go W O R K, but that takes so much longer. 898 00:40:57,920 --> 00:40:58,380 Exactly. 899 00:40:58,380 --> 00:40:59,340 So for anyone listening, 900 00:40:59,340 --> 00:41:02,600 when Eliot sort of signed work, it's kind of like taking your two hands, 901 00:41:02,720 --> 00:41:05,580 making them flat and hitting them together and sort of cross. 902 00:41:05,700 --> 00:41:07,080 If you don't, you're not sure what's going on. 903 00:41:07,080 --> 00:41:09,060 Google it or go watch a YouTube video. 904 00:41:09,060 --> 00:41:12,920 I'm sorry, we can't we can't describe BSL to you. 905 00:41:12,920 --> 00:41:13,460 Imagine. 906 00:41:13,460 --> 00:41:17,340 Imagine we're translating things into BSL and then translating them back 907 00:41:17,340 --> 00:41:19,020 into spoken words. 908 00:41:19,020 --> 00:41:20,780 But translating to spoken English by describing 909 00:41:22,440 --> 00:41:24,660 An audio description of BSL. 910 00:41:25,480 --> 00:41:27,780 That is like the worst version of Google Translate. 911 00:41:27,920 --> 00:41:29,960 Imagine translating that back and forth, right? 912 00:41:29,960 --> 00:41:33,300 That'd be a fun game though, if you were to get, Oh my gosh. 913 00:41:33,300 --> 00:41:36,440 So if you were to get some signing deaf people 914 00:41:36,620 --> 00:41:38,600 and then hearing people that don't sign at all 915 00:41:38,600 --> 00:41:41,840 and have the hearing people describe the signs to some deaf that people 916 00:41:41,840 --> 00:41:45,000 that sign and see what they what they say. 917 00:41:45,000 --> 00:41:47,100 Yeah it'd be a really fun thing to do. We should try to figure that out. 918 00:41:47,600 --> 00:41:50,040 Such a fun version of, like, Chinese whispers. 919 00:41:50,040 --> 00:41:50,480 Right? 920 00:41:50,480 --> 00:41:53,600 Yeah Like how many layers of English to BSL. 921 00:41:53,600 --> 00:41:55,320 To English, to BSL, to English. 922 00:41:55,320 --> 00:41:56,220 Before it becomes nonsense. Yeah. 923 00:41:56,220 --> 00:41:59,060 Chinese Whispers was one of those games they could never play as a kid. 924 00:41:59,060 --> 00:42:01,780 Oh my God, I couldn't ever play it. 925 00:42:01,800 --> 00:42:06,420 And like, I would try and lip read and then at some point you're just, I mean like 926 00:42:07,960 --> 00:42:09,440 lip reading is only going to do so much. 927 00:42:09,440 --> 00:42:11,300 But yeah, I know I could never play Chinese whispers. 928 00:42:11,300 --> 00:42:12,660 Going to be honest, Eliot, 929 00:42:12,660 --> 00:42:14,960 you could just make it up and you're basically playing it. 930 00:42:15,000 --> 00:42:17,700 You're basically playing Chinese whispers anyway. Well, like I said, I would. 931 00:42:17,700 --> 00:42:19,760 We’ll play it after this, we’ll play it after this. Don’t you worry. 932 00:42:19,760 --> 00:42:24,840 So. No, no, my point here is, you know, so yes, finger spelling takes a long time. 933 00:42:25,200 --> 00:42:27,620 And if you're in a lecture and someone's got to finger spell something, 934 00:42:27,800 --> 00:42:30,640 and not only have you got to wait for them to finish 935 00:42:30,660 --> 00:42:34,040 spelling it, you've also got to be spelling out the word in your head. 936 00:42:34,200 --> 00:42:35,960 Imagine if, you know, I was giving a 937 00:42:35,960 --> 00:42:38,480 I was giving a lecture, I was doing a Sci Guys episode. 938 00:42:38,480 --> 00:42:40,980 And instead of saying mitochondria, you know, I said, 939 00:42:41,640 --> 00:42:43,980 and, you know, if we're talking about the powerhouse of the cell, it's 940 00:42:43,980 --> 00:42:48,240 the M I T C H R O N D I A, right. 941 00:42:48,240 --> 00:42:49,740 You'd be like, okay. 942 00:42:49,740 --> 00:42:51,240 And by that point, I've already start talking 943 00:42:51,240 --> 00:42:53,160 like the lecturer is not waiting for the interpreter 944 00:42:53,160 --> 00:42:55,500 if you're lucky enough to have an interpreter. And you know, 945 00:42:56,720 --> 00:42:58,920 there are so many there are so many factors here, right? 946 00:42:59,360 --> 00:43:00,660 It's it's it. 947 00:43:00,660 --> 00:43:02,600 And what we need to remember is that none of this 948 00:43:02,600 --> 00:43:06,820 none of this reflects on deaf people, that people are not underrepresented 949 00:43:06,840 --> 00:43:08,580 because they're stupid, which is 950 00:43:08,580 --> 00:43:10,500 something that people think of deaf people My gosh. Yeah. 951 00:43:10,500 --> 00:43:12,260 No, it's true. It's true. 952 00:43:12,260 --> 00:43:14,420 You can you can speak speak about your own experience here. 953 00:43:14,420 --> 00:43:18,540 But I think that honestly, like people think of deaf people being stupid 954 00:43:18,540 --> 00:43:21,400 because the way that we sort of measure intelligence in others 955 00:43:21,540 --> 00:43:25,100 often is in their ability to converse, right? 956 00:43:25,280 --> 00:43:29,540 And so if you've got any kind of disability or anything 957 00:43:29,540 --> 00:43:32,640 whatsoever that impacts your way to converse with other people, 958 00:43:32,940 --> 00:43:36,180 people will automatically see you as less intelligent. 959 00:43:36,180 --> 00:43:36,440 Right? 960 00:43:36,440 --> 00:43:40,400 And if you're deaf, your pronunciation or like your diction or like 961 00:43:40,620 --> 00:43:42,820 whatever, like the way you speak might just be different 962 00:43:42,920 --> 00:43:44,500 because that's how you hear sounds 963 00:43:45,820 --> 00:43:46,460 and yeah. 964 00:43:46,460 --> 00:43:48,960 Ah, yes, no. But I do completely agree with you. 965 00:43:48,960 --> 00:43:53,140 I think my my parents had that worry about social stigmas when I was growing up 966 00:43:53,760 --> 00:43:54,860 around my deafness. 967 00:43:54,860 --> 00:43:58,040 And I don't think anyone ever automatically assumed 968 00:43:58,040 --> 00:44:01,680 I was stupid, but You don't even need people to assume that you're stupid. 969 00:44:01,680 --> 00:44:06,200 It's just the little sort of subconscious ways that people interact. 970 00:44:06,200 --> 00:44:10,940 And again, these are things that we need to be conscious of, all of us really. 971 00:44:10,940 --> 00:44:13,640 And I want to talk a little bit more about this. 972 00:44:13,640 --> 00:44:16,220 So, you know, I've got this article here. 973 00:44:16,220 --> 00:44:18,120 You can go read it down in the description. 974 00:44:18,120 --> 00:44:20,960 But, you know, you know, people can wait months 975 00:44:20,960 --> 00:44:25,080 for the sort of accessibility sort of assistance that they need. 976 00:44:25,760 --> 00:44:28,920 You know, you might not be able to have an interpreter in every lecture 977 00:44:29,100 --> 00:44:30,840 or a specialist note taker. 978 00:44:30,840 --> 00:44:32,460 And there is no reason for this, by the way, 979 00:44:32,460 --> 00:44:35,520 the universities are taking enough bloody money that they can pay an interpreter. 980 00:44:35,700 --> 00:44:36,920 They should be able to pay an interpreter to be 981 00:44:36,920 --> 00:44:38,540 in any of the classes that they want. 982 00:44:38,540 --> 00:44:39,180 I'm sorry. 983 00:44:39,180 --> 00:44:41,960 Why don't you just cut down maybe cut down one, 984 00:44:42,920 --> 00:44:45,620 one little bit spending on some things that you've got an interpreter 985 00:44:45,620 --> 00:44:49,260 in whatever class you need because realistically it's 1.3% students, right. 986 00:44:49,260 --> 00:44:52,680 But that's enough to get a set of interpreters, you know, on top of that. 987 00:44:53,780 --> 00:44:56,600 So on top of the not able to actually have interpreters on top of the signing, 988 00:44:57,260 --> 00:44:59,700 you know, there is just a stigma against, 989 00:44:59,700 --> 00:45:02,880 you know, being deaf and that will obviously affect people. 990 00:45:03,020 --> 00:45:06,120 But what I wanted to sort of bring it back to or sort of 991 00:45:07,140 --> 00:45:10,140 steer towards is this more to a positive story. 992 00:45:10,140 --> 00:45:13,460 Because we spoke about how, you know, if you're in a lecture 993 00:45:13,460 --> 00:45:15,800 and even if you've got an interpreter sort of signing, 994 00:45:16,620 --> 00:45:20,400 you will still like you will still have to sort of finger spell things out. 995 00:45:20,580 --> 00:45:22,380 And so what a lot of people have done is 996 00:45:22,380 --> 00:45:26,460 or some people have done is created a whole bunch of new signs for this. 997 00:45:26,460 --> 00:45:29,540 And I wanted to do this this as an episode of Sci Guys 998 00:45:30,140 --> 00:45:32,340 years ago, back when we started, because there is 999 00:45:32,720 --> 00:45:36,140 there's a guy named Liam McMulken and he he was 1000 00:45:36,140 --> 00:45:39,020 an undergrad at the University of Dundee, which is where I'm from. 1001 00:45:39,240 --> 00:45:42,460 He actually studied with one of my friends and he created 1002 00:45:42,480 --> 00:45:46,980 a whole bunch of new signs because he was like, I think the issue was 1003 00:45:46,980 --> 00:45:47,880 he was having to, 1004 00:45:47,880 --> 00:45:49,820 you know, have his interpreter finger spell stuff out 1005 00:45:49,820 --> 00:45:52,440 and he's like, let's just make these signs for these words. 1006 00:45:52,440 --> 00:45:54,440 And again, it's this sort of thing of like, 1007 00:45:54,740 --> 00:45:57,500 imagine not having a word for something, do you know what I mean? 1008 00:45:57,500 --> 00:45:59,160 Like having a concept 1009 00:45:59,160 --> 00:46:01,460 that you can spell out but not having like a word for it 1010 00:46:02,060 --> 00:46:04,800 that's I guess somewhat comparable to not having a sign for it, right? 1011 00:46:04,800 --> 00:46:05,900 Literally, yeah. 1012 00:46:05,900 --> 00:46:07,980 I'm like, you know, if you if you then have a sign, 1013 00:46:07,980 --> 00:46:11,040 you're then able to like personally sort of understand the concept more 1014 00:46:11,040 --> 00:46:12,800 because you've got a thing to apply it to. 1015 00:46:12,800 --> 00:46:14,420 So he created 1016 00:46:14,420 --> 00:46:19,020 he developed over a hundred new signs and those were accepted into BSL. 1017 00:46:19,020 --> 00:46:22,580 So this, this, this one undergrad dude, he just went ahead. 1018 00:46:22,580 --> 00:46:24,000 He was like, okay, this isn't working for me. 1019 00:46:24,000 --> 00:46:25,100 Let's, let's make this work. 1020 00:46:25,100 --> 00:46:27,080 And it was sort of accepted into 1021 00:46:28,040 --> 00:46:28,980 the actual language. 1022 00:46:28,980 --> 00:46:30,140 That's really cool. 1023 00:46:30,140 --> 00:46:32,520 It's brilliant. Right on. Liam, what is his name? Name. 1024 00:46:32,640 --> 00:46:34,280 Name is Liam. Go. And Liam. 1025 00:46:34,280 --> 00:46:36,620 I've got a quote from him here as well, he said that “I feel really happy. 1026 00:46:36,620 --> 00:46:39,840 I know from my own experience how difficult it is to learn during lectures. 1027 00:46:40,020 --> 00:46:41,580 Now the new signs have spread. 1028 00:46:41,580 --> 00:46:44,540 I feel it will be better for future students.” He went on to study for a 1029 00:46:44,540 --> 00:46:48,180 master's degree in regenerative medicine at the University of Dundee. 1030 00:46:48,360 --> 00:46:51,860 And the University of Dundee is really good for, you know, certain things. 1031 00:46:51,860 --> 00:46:53,480 Apparently, they've got a comprehensive plan 1032 00:46:53,480 --> 00:46:56,880 to ensure that they are inclusive and supportive of British sign language users. 1033 00:46:57,500 --> 00:46:59,340 That is just that's just in the UK. 1034 00:46:59,340 --> 00:47:02,840 But in America for ASL, they've, they've also made a bunch of new signs. 1035 00:47:02,940 --> 00:47:09,480 So I tried to learn the sign for DNA in ASL, so which I'm going to suck at this. 1036 00:47:09,480 --> 00:47:11,840 They created a whole bunch of new ones, but it's really great. 1037 00:47:11,840 --> 00:47:13,820 So I think it's something along the lines of 1038 00:47:14,820 --> 00:47:17,420 - hang on, it's like this I will describe. 1039 00:47:17,420 --> 00:47:21,540 So Corry places two peace signs sort of next to each other, 1040 00:47:21,540 --> 00:47:22,500 like they're scissoring. 1041 00:47:22,500 --> 00:47:26,180 And then pulls them away from each other and twists, twists at the time. 1042 00:47:26,180 --> 00:47:29,840 And so go to scissor and then pull them away and then twist. 1043 00:47:29,840 --> 00:47:30,060 Yeah. 1044 00:47:30,060 --> 00:47:33,320 So you twist them, you sort of rotate them 90 degrees. 1045 00:47:33,440 --> 00:47:35,420 So if you're listening, let me just explain this to you. 1046 00:47:35,420 --> 00:47:37,760 And if you're watching, you can watch. You can watch and listen at the same time. 1047 00:47:37,980 --> 00:47:41,640 So what I've got here is I've got two sort of peace signs and they are, 1048 00:47:42,020 --> 00:47:43,680 I guess, sort of perpendicular to one another 1049 00:47:43,680 --> 00:47:46,100 and sort of intersecting like they're about to scissor right. 1050 00:47:46,100 --> 00:47:50,100 And then what I do is I pull them away and rotate them each 90 degrees. 1051 00:47:50,400 --> 00:47:53,060 And that's like that's supposed to sort of replicate 1052 00:47:53,400 --> 00:47:56,340 represent the DNA double helix, and so it means DNA. 1053 00:47:56,420 --> 00:47:57,720 Now that makes so much sense. 1054 00:47:57,720 --> 00:47:59,400 And so obviously with ASLl, 1055 00:48:00,420 --> 00:48:00,920 the idea 1056 00:48:00,920 --> 00:48:03,620 is that you can finger- sort fingerspell with one hand. 1057 00:48:03,980 --> 00:48:05,720 So instead of having to, you know, do 1058 00:48:05,720 --> 00:48:08,300 sort of do with one hand like, you know, DNA or whatever, 1059 00:48:09,500 --> 00:48:12,840 boom, that just one quick sign and you've got the sign for DNA. 1060 00:48:12,840 --> 00:48:14,840 And it's this this is what I love about sign languages 1061 00:48:15,120 --> 00:48:19,220 is that I feel like they work in a way that my brain likes to work, 1062 00:48:19,220 --> 00:48:22,560 which is very visual, it’s The concept, I'm not going to lie. 1063 00:48:22,560 --> 00:48:25,320 I the sign for abortion the other day and it's literally. 1064 00:48:25,940 --> 00:48:27,020 Oh, gosh. 1065 00:48:27,020 --> 00:48:29,120 Could you describe that for the audio? 1066 00:48:29,120 --> 00:48:32,960 Oh, so the sign for abortion is literally you get your hand as if it's going to 1067 00:48:32,960 --> 00:48:37,680 grab something and then it grabs where sort of your lower abdomen is. 1068 00:48:37,680 --> 00:48:38,580 Is that the right- how you pronounce it? 1069 00:48:39,780 --> 00:48:40,340 Where your womb would be, yeah. 1070 00:48:40,340 --> 00:48:42,460 And then and then you grab it and then you kind of 1071 00:48:42,480 --> 00:48:45,080 pull a face of disgust and you throw it What? 1072 00:48:45,120 --> 00:48:46,560 Yeah it’s kind of You need the face of disgust? 1073 00:48:46,560 --> 00:48:48,740 Face of disgust. So it's sort of like. 1074 00:48:49,640 --> 00:48:52,680 Ah it’s great because your faces are. 1075 00:48:52,780 --> 00:48:53,400 Yeah. 1076 00:48:53,580 --> 00:48:56,760 They’re important for So when you, when you're doing sign language. 1077 00:48:57,140 --> 00:48:59,880 So the sign for job and work 1078 00:48:59,880 --> 00:49:03,720 is the same, you know, it's this which is the sign we described earlier. 1079 00:49:03,720 --> 00:49:06,180 Crossing over. Yeah, the crossing over. 1080 00:49:06,180 --> 00:49:10,680 Job and work are the same, but your lip reading is the mouthing. 1081 00:49:10,680 --> 00:49:13,700 The word is important in terms of like the context So interesting. 1082 00:49:13,700 --> 00:49:17,560 Like I really do want to learn BSL but you know I just my thing is 1083 00:49:17,580 --> 00:49:20,980 I need to find a good course because I want- if I'm going to learn it, 1084 00:49:21,000 --> 00:49:22,100 I want to learn it. 1085 00:49:22,100 --> 00:49:26,240 And also you need to find a course that is, is basically approved 1086 00:49:26,240 --> 00:49:30,860 by the deaf community because what a lot of people do is they will teach BSL 1087 00:49:31,440 --> 00:49:35,520 without being sort of deaf themselves or having a sanction from the deaf community. 1088 00:49:35,520 --> 00:49:36,740 And it's just 1089 00:49:36,740 --> 00:49:38,580 and not saying that it's impossible and I'm not doing it, blah blah 1090 00:49:38,580 --> 00:49:40,380 blah, I'm just saying I want to do it right. 1091 00:49:40,380 --> 00:49:41,160 And it's kind of, 1092 00:49:41,160 --> 00:49:44,820 it's kind of better kind of coming from a deaf person or a native speaker. 1093 00:49:44,880 --> 00:49:48,520 You have someone who is very much involved in the community 1094 00:49:48,860 --> 00:49:52,180 because because here’s the thing; different sign languages 1095 00:49:52,200 --> 00:49:55,180 - even within British sign language, there's different dialects. Yes. 1096 00:49:55,200 --> 00:49:57,680 And regional signs. 1097 00:49:57,680 --> 00:49:59,540 And it's so interesting. 1098 00:49:59,540 --> 00:50:01,460 This is the thing, we were talking about this last week in 1099 00:50:01,460 --> 00:50:04,940 the episode on linguistics and yeah, you say that, oh, that's so cool. 1100 00:50:04,980 --> 00:50:11,060 But yes, but obviously this language has dialects and slang 1101 00:50:11,060 --> 00:50:11,600 and you know, 1102 00:50:11,600 --> 00:50:13,500 if you learn it from one person, it's gonna be slightly different 1103 00:50:13,500 --> 00:50:15,440 to how someone else- because it's a language. 1104 00:50:15,440 --> 00:50:18,920 And the reason that this is so sort of shocking and exciting to us 1105 00:50:18,920 --> 00:50:22,880 is because we genuinely do not value BSL as a language on par with, 1106 00:50:23,160 --> 00:50:24,320 you know, spoken language. 1107 00:50:24,320 --> 00:50:26,420 No, it really isn't seen on the same level. 1108 00:50:26,420 --> 00:50:31,800 Even like within the government, BSL is not fully recognized 1109 00:50:32,120 --> 00:50:34,860 as, as a language in itself and it really should be. 1110 00:50:34,860 --> 00:50:35,840 And I think, 1111 00:50:35,840 --> 00:50:36,500 I mean I remember 1112 00:50:36,500 --> 00:50:39,900 doing tiny bits of BSL at school but actually if they really implemented it 1113 00:50:39,900 --> 00:50:44,220 more, yeah, I find us also like helpful when I'm in loud situations. 1114 00:50:44,220 --> 00:50:47,120 You know, if you're clubbing with your friends you're like toilet now. 1115 00:50:47,580 --> 00:50:49,640 Drunk, exactly, exactly. 1116 00:50:49,640 --> 00:50:53,620 Like just it's a great way to be able to without actually having to say 1117 00:50:53,640 --> 00:50:57,080 anything like or be able to hear even like. 1118 00:50:57,080 --> 00:51:02,220 I was hanging out with a sort of that friend the other day who has a child. 1119 00:51:02,220 --> 00:51:07,340 And so they sign, their child is hearing and their partner is hearing, 1120 00:51:07,800 --> 00:51:11,520 but they obviously are teaching BSL to the to the to the baby. 1121 00:51:11,720 --> 00:51:14,180 And the baby also knows baby sign language. 1122 00:51:14,180 --> 00:51:19,580 So they're using BSL and baby sign at the sort of Both called BSL Yeah, right. 1123 00:51:19,580 --> 00:51:21,180 It's wild right. Yeah. 1124 00:51:21,180 --> 00:51:23,400 But it's so interesting because you see this little kid, 1125 00:51:23,400 --> 00:51:26,340 you know, this, this tiny little baby doing little signs like 1126 00:51:27,140 --> 00:51:29,420 and sometimes it means sometimes they're meaning B 1127 00:51:29,420 --> 00:51:31,740 and sometimes they're meaning like, you know, something else. 1128 00:51:31,940 --> 00:51:33,620 And it's so interesting 1129 00:51:33,620 --> 00:51:37,160 to watch a little baby that can't speak, communicate through sign 1130 00:51:37,500 --> 00:51:39,620 and then It’s possible Why aren’t we doing this, why? 1131 00:51:39,840 --> 00:51:41,220 like I genuinely don’t understand, like? 1132 00:51:41,220 --> 00:51:44,600 I like I genuinely want to teach my kid sign language BSL 1133 00:51:44,820 --> 00:51:48,460 not because it's not because “oh let's make them woke and 1134 00:51:48,460 --> 00:51:51,880 and help the deaf-” no like honestly I would like- 1135 00:51:51,880 --> 00:51:55,680 Forgetting deaf people for a moment, right.Forget deaf people for a moment. 1136 00:51:55,680 --> 00:51:59,900 Like I think it is just beneficial to, to teach your kids BSL 1137 00:51:59,900 --> 00:52:02,300 because we, we should all have multiple modes of communicating, 1138 00:52:02,540 --> 00:52:04,320 and that's not to take BSL away from the deaf community. 1139 00:52:04,320 --> 00:52:05,180 Like, absolutely. 1140 00:52:05,180 --> 00:52:07,460 Like I understand that completely It’s so 1141 00:52:09,720 --> 00:52:09,800 useful. 1142 00:52:09,800 --> 00:52:10,380 As a language, it’s so useful. Yeah. 1143 00:52:10,380 --> 00:52:13,700 I mean like it's beneficial for literally everyone like 1144 00:52:14,460 --> 00:52:17,460 you wouldn't- like the deaf community can still have their sort of, 1145 00:52:17,480 --> 00:52:20,420 you know, sort of their own, their own sort of culture and community and whatnot. 1146 00:52:20,660 --> 00:52:25,520 And on top of that, like you still have you’re then able to interact. 1147 00:52:25,520 --> 00:52:26,720 You don't have that barrier. 1148 00:52:26,720 --> 00:52:27,140 Exactly. 1149 00:52:27,140 --> 00:52:30,320 between you and a deaf friend because, you don't speak the language. 1150 00:52:30,740 --> 00:52:31,760 As someone who is deaf. 1151 00:52:31,760 --> 00:52:34,380 I feel like I have a barrier within my own community. 1152 00:52:34,380 --> 00:52:39,740 Like I can't talk to people who are deaf just like I am, who only sign. 1153 00:52:39,740 --> 00:52:41,520 Yeah like I cannot talk to them. 1154 00:52:41,520 --> 00:52:44,480 I wish I didn't have that barrier. 1155 00:52:44,480 --> 00:52:46,140 Yeah I’m sure it would.- Yeah. 1156 00:52:46,140 --> 00:52:48,900 It just makes everyone's lives easier, I think. 1157 00:52:49,140 --> 00:52:50,460 Absolutely. Absolutely. 1158 00:52:50,460 --> 00:52:51,320 And you know what, look, 1159 00:52:51,320 --> 00:52:54,860 I mean, if if someone in the deaf and is going to say, we don't want 1160 00:52:54,860 --> 00:52:57,840 hearing people learning BSL as a rule, that's our thing. 1161 00:52:58,020 --> 00:52:59,460 You know, I totally understand that. 1162 00:52:59,460 --> 00:53:01,580 I understand where you're coming from. But like, why? 1163 00:53:01,860 --> 00:53:03,840 Why would they have that problem in a sense? 1164 00:53:03,840 --> 00:53:09,280 Because if like even if everyone knew how to sign a few signs, 1165 00:53:09,280 --> 00:53:12,840 retail experiences like going shopping or something would become a lot easier. 1166 00:53:12,960 --> 00:53:14,540 Yeah. No, no, absolutely. I absolutely agree with that. 1167 00:53:14,540 --> 00:53:17,240 I just I just want to point out the viewpoint of 1168 00:53:17,940 --> 00:53:21,560 sort of basically not wanting necessarily 1169 00:53:21,560 --> 00:53:25,280 hearing people to stamp all over and Yes Remove deaf culture. 1170 00:53:25,520 --> 00:53:28,840 I mean, to be honest, there was there was one more point I had in here 1171 00:53:29,040 --> 00:53:31,440 and it could honestly be an entire episode on it’s own. 1172 00:53:31,860 --> 00:53:35,240 iIt was- We won't even get into it, you know, d’you know, we’ll hint at it 1173 00:53:35,240 --> 00:53:37,460 for, for maybe a future episode with you 1174 00:53:38,240 --> 00:53:41,520 So I was going to talk a little bit about CRISPR gene editing 1175 00:53:41,660 --> 00:53:45,440 and how people, how people consider sort of curing 1176 00:53:45,600 --> 00:53:49,860 deafness or stopping kids from being deaf and like there's a whole can of worms. 1177 00:53:49,860 --> 00:53:52,560 We've had so much conversation that we literally do not have time for it today. 1178 00:53:52,560 --> 00:53:55,680 Yeah, but if you really like this episode and you want to see Elliot back again, 1179 00:53:56,040 --> 00:53:57,500 head down to the comments, 1180 00:53:57,500 --> 00:53:59,480 leave a little comment, let us know that you want to see Elliot 1181 00:53:59,480 --> 00:54:01,920 and we might do a future episode with Elliot. If Elliot enjoyed this. 1182 00:54:05,220 --> 00:54:06,060 (Unconvinced) Hmm. 1183 00:54:07,640 --> 00:54:08,840 Joking! Wow. 1184 00:54:08,840 --> 00:54:12,900 Well, with that, why don't we move on to the Quickfire Quiz? 1185 00:54:13,140 --> 00:54:15,260 Dun dun dun dun. 1186 00:54:15,300 --> 00:54:16,620 Not sure about this. 1187 00:54:16,620 --> 00:54:19,140 Yeah, yeah, sure. Deaf Edition! 1188 00:54:19,160 --> 00:54:20,940 So the rules for the Quickfire Quiz are the same as always. 1189 00:54:20,940 --> 00:54:21,780 I'll ask one question. 1190 00:54:21,780 --> 00:54:22,920 That's one question between the two of you. 1191 00:54:22,920 --> 00:54:23,360 The first person 1192 00:54:23,360 --> 00:54:26,480 to buzz in with the correct answer after I finish asking the question wins. 1193 00:54:26,480 --> 00:54:27,120 What do they win Luke? 1194 00:54:27,120 --> 00:54:30,020 Elliot's hearing aids. 1195 00:54:30,020 --> 00:54:33,240 I really hope you win, Elliott. 1196 00:54:33,240 --> 00:54:35,740 Me too. Me too. Me too! 1197 00:54:35,740 --> 00:54:38,240 Goodbye hearing! 1198 00:54:38,420 --> 00:54:41,280 I just have to learn sign language now. 1199 00:54:41,340 --> 00:54:43,400 It's incentive. That's what it is. Exactly. 1200 00:54:43,400 --> 00:54:46,160 So, Luke, what is your buzzer. 1201 00:54:47,420 --> 00:54:48,560 [squeaking noise] It’s, Elliot‘s, like. 1202 00:54:48,560 --> 00:54:51,540 It’s the noise you make when people hug you. Sounds just like hugging. 1203 00:54:51,540 --> 00:54:52,880 Elliott. Elliott, what's your buzzer? 1204 00:54:52,880 --> 00:54:55,680 What? 1205 00:54:55,680 --> 00:54:58,260 Yours is a lot easier to make than mine. Fantastic. 1206 00:54:58,260 --> 00:54:59,300 So here we go. 1207 00:54:59,300 --> 00:55:01,580 This is the question for the Quickfire Quiz. 1208 00:55:01,580 --> 00:55:05,160 The question is, can you answer this question in BSL? 1209 00:55:06,540 --> 00:55:09,480 [squeaking noise] What? 1210 00:55:09,480 --> 00:55:11,440 Oh, What! 1211 00:55:13,320 --> 00:55:16,980 Luke you got there first, but you need to answer this correctly. 1212 00:55:17,700 --> 00:55:18,600 Nuh-uh! 1213 00:55:18,600 --> 00:55:22,580 No, Elliot come in for the steal. Yes. 1214 00:55:23,160 --> 00:55:24,900 Exactly the correct answer. 1215 00:55:24,900 --> 00:55:28,400 Again, if anyone is listening, the sign that Elliot did is the one for 1216 00:55:28,400 --> 00:55:31,580 yes, which you make a fist and you make it nod its little fisty head. 1217 00:55:31,580 --> 00:55:32,540 It's like nodding. 1218 00:55:32,540 --> 00:55:33,900 It's like if you were nodding your head. 1219 00:55:33,900 --> 00:55:37,160 But just imagine your fist is your head and you just hold it up and then it nods. 1220 00:55:37,280 --> 00:55:38,880 Also, if you want to say no, 1221 00:55:38,880 --> 00:55:40,920 you know, when you do, when you when you shake your head 1222 00:55:40,920 --> 00:55:42,720 and that means no, you do the same with your fist. 1223 00:55:42,720 --> 00:55:44,780 And that is it for this week, I think. 1224 00:55:44,780 --> 00:55:47,140 But before we go, we'd like to thank all of our Patrons with an extra special 1225 00:55:47,160 --> 00:55:49,500 thank you to Executive Producers Danito and Glitch Rabbit. 1226 00:55:49,500 --> 00:55:50,720 And thank you for watching. 1227 00:55:50,720 --> 00:55:52,880 You can find the full references for this episode down in the description. 1228 00:55:52,880 --> 00:55:55,760 Subscribe for new episodes every Sunday, and why not leave us a nice wee comment. 1229 00:55:55,880 --> 00:55:57,500 You can support the pod at Patreon.com/SciGuys, 1230 00:55:57,500 --> 00:55:59,040 you can find and contact us 1231 00:55:59,040 --> 00:56:01,540 on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram and @SciGuys on Tik Tok too! 1232 00:56:01,540 --> 00:56:03,720 Or send us an email at sciguyspod@gmail.com 1233 00:56:03,860 --> 00:56:06,240 That’s sciguyspod@gmail.com! 1234 00:56:06,240 --> 00:56:07,640 Sci Guys pod! 1235 00:56:07,640 --> 00:56:09,920 @gmail.com! You can follow me @notcorry everywhere! 1236 00:56:09,980 --> 00:56:11,900 You can follow me @LukeCutforth everywhere. 1237 00:56:11,900 --> 00:56:14,520 And @Evolutionofelliot everywhere. Goodbye. 1238 00:56:15,380 --> 00:56:16,920 You got to say something. Goodbye. 1239 00:56:18,080 --> 00:56:19,220 People are listening. 1240 00:56:19,220 --> 00:56:19,860 People are? 1241 00:56:19,860 --> 00:56:30,420 Say goodbye You just waved and said nothing.