Narrator: You're listening to the humans of DevOps podcast, a

podcast focused on advancing the humans of DevOps through skills,

knowledge, ideas and learning, or the SK il framework.

Rafal Goralski: impostor syndrome, that's that's

something that I think people who are rescaling or starting

something new have to manage to overcome, because this will

appear very frequently appeared with me if I can advise

something to anyone. Don't be discouraged by this.

Eveline Oehrlich: Hello, everybody, this is Evelyn Yoli,

Chief Research Officer DevOps Institute with another episode

of our humans of DevOps podcast. And this one today is a very,

very, very special one. The title is a risk telling tale

from physiotherapist to DevOps engineer. And with me, I have a

now very famous person who was introduced in London at our

skillup festival. How falgu ASCII Hello, fall. Hello,

Rafal Goralski: nice to meet you. Nice to be here. Thank you.

Eveline Oehrlich: Yes, thank you for taking time out of your day,

which I'm sure is very, very busy. So let me give you a give

listeners a quick introduction today. So I heard about a file

at a as I already said, skill up event in London at the festival,

where one of our ambassadors one of our great ambassadors, Pablo

porch, I hope I say his name right, was talking about a

learning journey and teaching DevOps and in his story, he was

in his slides, and in his presentation, he mentioned the

story of Gasol. And the room was very silent. Everybody was

listening in you could hear a needle drop because I and that's

when I thought I have to meet this gentleman first. And

second, I have to bring a story to to our listeners. But before

we come to Europhile, I just wanted to say a few words on

Pavel. So Pavel actually leads the DevOps Academy at EPAM, or

EPM. And EPM systems is an American company that

specializes in service development, digital platform

engineering, and digital product design. They're operating out of

Newton, Pennsylvania. And if Pavel if you are listening,

hello, Pavel. Thank you again for introducing me to FL. And

thanks to fall again to jumping on this call. I think like

within almost like 72 hours, I had you on there. So

Rafal Goralski: that's correct. You are very, very time

intensive moment. But I did what I could to join you.

Eveline Oehrlich: Super? Well tell us a little bit about

yourself. Kapha.

Rafal Goralski: Yeah, so like you mentioned before

transitioning into DevOps, I was a physical therapist for roughly

nine years. I finished the school in my hometown, and then

started postgraduate studies on academia of osteopathy, here in

Poland, when unfortunately, the pandemic came. And for some

reason, the clinics have PT workflows for a long time,

because it was the whole 2020 20 was closed. So I searched for a

different occupation. So it was it had to be something with

computers because we were locked in home. So I thought that this

will be a great choice. And I encountered on my email. The

first contact was scholarship offered by CNC F Susa and

Udacity. If I wanted to participate, and I didn't have a

clue what CNC F was, was, will be the cloud where we'll be the

tooling there. But I, of course, said yeah, I want to

participate. And I didn't get into that at first. So that was,

it should lasted three months. But I was accepted after a month

because the seats were already taken. But for some reason, they

made one more seat, or a couple of more, and I could get in. And

that was the first contact that I had with the tools that are

used in DevOps, which I didn't know that those were DevOps

tools, then because it was introduction to Docker to

Kubernetes to see ICD pipelines, and on a very high level, so

that was only the theory and some some some basic repetition

of the things that were done on screen because it was online and

self paced. So that gave me this sort of ticket to get into the

EPM academy that was organized. And the funny thing is that I

got into the EPM academy after it was closed the registration.

So I reached out directly to the email that was provided on site

and as the root of my story that I really, really want to

participate and if there will be a chance to make it happen. And

one of the Are the people from HR reached out and said, Yeah,

we could take you and it's it hasn't started yet. If you pass

the interview, then it's going to be okay. And those previous

experiences from from the CNCF and Udacity course, were helpful

to pass the interview and get to where I was, I was overwhelmed

by, by the, by the amount of great people around me and the

positive experience that was joining the Academy because it

was a small community. We were nine people then. And we started

learning intensively for eight hours a day. But it was it was

joyful and fun. And I really miss that that period of time.

Eveline Oehrlich: So two things you have for sure is tenacity

and perseverance, which are great human skills to have in

this in this world. So have you in your physical therapy, and in

your journey through your PT time, which I think is also a

great profession because we need that, particularly for those who

sit in front of our screen all day long. You hear about DevOps

heavy? Did you know what DevOps was before that?

Rafal Goralski: Not at all? Not at all. It was just something

that was sometimes a title on the internet where I was

browsing, but I didn't know what it what is the programming

language was something else. I have no clue. So yeah, I know

that sounds childish, but I didn't know what it was a

learned all those things in the meantime.

Eveline Oehrlich: Yeah. Not childish at all. Because as you

might know, and as you have done that, reskilling reskilling is a

very, very, very hot topic right now. There are things like with

great resignation, that's probably I like to read name it

to a great reshuffle, where people are saying, Hey, I'm kind

of done with what I've done for the last whatever years, and

they're really looking for rescaling themselves. So you are

the example of a reskilling journey, which I think is

fantastic. So I have another question for you. So why? Why

DevOps? Was it? I mean, obviously, you said, right, you

needed to do some changes, and you wanted to do something, you

had home office, we all were locked into our places. So why

why specifically, DevOps Was there another motivation behind

that it was a pure coincidence with the CN CF.

Rafal Goralski: So there was the pure coincidence at first with

cn CF. But I didn't know that this would lead me to DevOps

directly. So the next thing, my friend told me about this

fantastic book, the Phoenix Project, when I read that, I

read it as a thriller. So I thought that it would be a great

opportunity to be a part of such a team to change something, and

to have all those crazy roller coaster that they were in this

book. And that kind of established my way of thinking

and my way of evolving. So I thought that, yeah, this is

something that I really want to do. I read obviously, a lot of

articles, then what is DevOps, some some community sites. And

also this broadened my my point of view about DevOps and I, then

I knew that I want to be a part of it, and I want to evolve in

this direction.

Eveline Oehrlich: Excellent. So if you go back into those times,

as you already indicated, tough, tough times, eight hour

studying, besides the time investment, and I'm sure you had

challenges when it comes to dealing with the pandemic and

all of that. But what other challenges would you say you

had? What was the toughest thing? Where you go back and

say, I made it through?

Rafal Goralski: Yeah, so there were a number, a large number of

those. So basically, I had no experience in Linux. So the

first contact with the terminal was on the CNC f course, when I

open terminal type ls, and then something came up and I was

like, Whoa, yeah, it's works. So great. So I was really clumsy in

Linux. So I really spent some time improving this. So I could

be a little bit better, faster. And also a lot of things that I

didn't knew that came up a lot of terms. So the best thing that

I did probably was reading extensively about any detail

that I didn't understand that I didn't know on an even higher

level, just to have a broader understanding about what I was

doing because following instruction from the screen and

doing replicating them, it's easy, but knowing what it

actually does, it's something else. So I think that that's

this is the thing that I did so reading the things that I didn't

know and those were the challenges was a lot of them a

lot of challenges. But like I said, gaining that deeper

knowledge helped me to kind of understand it better,

Eveline Oehrlich: any specific tips you would give to people

who are thinking you up your sleeves you would love to share

and I know our audience would love to hear.

Rafal Goralski: Yeah, so the first thing that it's the

imposter syndrome, that's that's something that each of us have,

I think people who are rescaling or starting something new have

to have to manage to overcome because this, this will appear

very frequently appeared with me. And I think that the best

way was to learn even more because that the head is

occupied with something else. And I didn't have that feeling

very long when I when I extensively learned about

something that I didn't knew. But it came occasionally back.

So don't be if I can advise something to anyone, don't be

discouraged by this impostor syndrome, because you're

learning and that's, that's natural, I think. And, yeah,

just a lot of lot of courses, small courses, about the same

topic. So if I was learning about Kubernetes, for example, I

like to read books, watch films from from different providers

just to have the same topic from a different point of view that

helped me somehow to understand the topic a little bit better.

And, yeah, that's, that's something that I would encourage

everyone to do, not just one course and a very long one, but

take some shorter ones on a high level, and understand the topic

and then go a little bit deeper into the rabbit hole.

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Eveline Oehrlich: Of course, we all learn differently, right? I

learned by reading, but I also learned by doing so where there

are a lot of labs and things you were able to do so that you can

actually test your skills. Yes, yes.

Rafal Goralski: So the the really fun lab was organized by

Google, it was Google upskill. It was a very fun lab, because

it was all time based. So there were 30 days to complete it. And

it was very, very good. Because there was the terminal there was

that there had to be no subscription made, no credit

card provided. And you can really dive into it. So check

the terminal, check the services that are provided. Also, AWS has

some latest and Microsoft so it's all free. And I think that

it's worth giving it a shot, because there's a lot of

extensive materials around there. And also, they're

practical, so we can get into the terminal to the to the

border, or check your skills in the cloud on a on a server. So

that's, that's great.

Eveline Oehrlich: So you kind of give up through those labs, you

get your confidence up, you know, you can you get that self

worth, right rises more,

Rafal Goralski: yeah, those small rewards, those are really

important that it's not only the red font on the screen that

something's going wrong, but also the green ones that yeah, a

small success, you can go forward. And that's something

motivating and I think it's also for us, I mean, I'm I was born

in 84. So my whole generation has this sort of attitude that

we like those kind of small rewards, like, you know, if you

post something on Facebook, we like that someone views it likes

it. And this is the same sort. It's really addicting. And I

think this is the the exact same feeling when something is done

for the first time and it works. That's that's just amazing.

Eveline Oehrlich: So this is a little bit of a fairly personal

question, so you don't have to answer it if you don't want to.

But one once you started how long did it take you? Until you

realize this is it I'm really I'm really liking it. I really

love this and I don't look back to my PT time. Was it six

months? Was it nine months was it? It's still not maybe maybe

you're still not there?

Rafal Goralski: The only times where I looked kind of back at

Pt career was when someone close or from the friends that I

haven't seen in a while asked me about it. That was the only time

when I looked back and said no, I don't want to go back because

here is it's the learning curve is steep, but it's really

rewarding. Like I said it Edie is also, you have to learn a

lot, because there are a lot of courses, a lot of new models of

treating patients with lumbar diseases or any other

dysfunctions. But here, it's all you can reach out there, there

are a lot of tools that are free, open source, whenever a

new technology comes out, you can, all you have to do is try

and reach out for it and try it with PT is a little bit

different. Because you have to organize a course you have to

attend this course, then you have then there has to be tested

on a couple of patients to make it work. But here is it's under

each of your hands, actually, this this whole knowledge and

it's overwhelming. But it's it's great.

Eveline Oehrlich: So the worst moment of your, of your journey

so far, if you look back some some moment in time where you

say some developer screamed at me or whatever any any worst

moment, and we follow that with the best moment.

Rafal Goralski: Okay, so I didn't encounter those moments

where anyone yelled at me or did something I wouldn't be pleasant

about yet. But that may made to come. I think that the kind of

wake up call was when we were divided into groups and in the

DevOps Academy, and we had to do something in threes. And I

didn't know who was who were the participants in DevOps Academy,

I thought that everyone was on the same level as I was, which

was the true because those people were superstars in

computer science as it turned out. But that gave me a wake up

call that I need to work harder, even that I did. So just to

catch up just to have be near on the level that they are. And

that was a huge wake up call for me that I needed to speed up a

little bit. It wasn't unpleasant, but it was it was a

wake up call. If we talk about pleasant things, I encountered

really great people that are on my path. People who had over 20

years of experience, senior developers who took me in like,

on like a Padawan taught me a lot of things. And yeah, that

was That was excellent. I went to one of the projects that I

was assigned to and EPAM, after the academy, that I was accepted

to one of the developers was very kind and had a huge impact

on my thinking about a lot of things.

Eveline Oehrlich: And so that coach that peer, co who

motivates you, who gives you some tips, that's great. I

remember having that person as well. Way back in my IT

operations career, which even at nighttime, I was going home and

just thinking that person in my head to keep me abreast and to

keep me motivated. That's great to hear. So

Rafal Goralski: great. Because whenever I had a small success

outside, even when the project ended, and I had a small

success, like passing official exam from Microsoft, I

immediately think them that yeah, I managed to do it. And we

were like, we weren't talking for a couple of months. But then

I decided to share and he was also very happy that Yeah, you

did it. So great.

Eveline Oehrlich: Super shout out to that person. Fantastic.

One, one additional question. And then we're about ready to

wrap up is when you Where are you? What's next for you in

terms of learning? I'm sure. I mean, you you always learn,

right? We all learn every day on all kinds of things. But

specifically, have you set yourself some specific goals for

the rest of the year? Or for next year? Where you want to go?

Rafal Goralski: Yes, yes, of course. So this year, the sixth

of October, I'm taking the Microsoft az 104 exam. So that

will complement the one that I already have. So that's the plan

for this year. After that, maybe next year, maybe somewhere

around January, February, I would like to do the CPA. But

that's something I need to prepare a little bit more for

that. And I think the next would be also pursuing the Microsoft.

So aizat, three or five Solution Architect, but that's a little

bit in the near future, but a bit more distant than that.

Eveline Oehrlich: Fantastic. Don't forget to live a little

bit, because outside of the pandemic, and we can come to

Germany, come visit me. I'll take you out for some local

beer.

Rafal Goralski: Oh, there'll be there'll be excellent. Fun as a

little reward

Eveline Oehrlich: for for your hard work. That would be fun.

Well, certainly if you are in the in the in the area. I mean,

the northern and the southern part of Germany, stopped by

happy to guide you through some of our local breweries or

whatever else, whatever beverage you'd like to prefer. Fantastic.

Rafal Goralski: Well remember that thank you very much.

Eveline Oehrlich: This has been a great conversation. This has

been really, really a pleasure. very motivational, very

inspiring thing. Cuba file for your fantastic honesty and your

you are the spirit of DevOps. I can see it, I can feel it. I

have one more question a little bit more around fun part. What

is it you like to do on the weekend? Well,

Rafal Goralski: on the weekends

Eveline Oehrlich: I have you studying? No, no, no, I

Rafal Goralski: try to I try to limit this a little bit. But I

have two small daughters. So I tried to spend my time with

them. But in the evening, I cannot promise that I will not

be studying. So that's something that I do, just like in this

book that I read about, just for fun by Linus Torvalds. It's the

same. I mean, it's just a fun journey being paid for what

what's actually fun. Yeah.

Eveline Oehrlich: Well, that's a great summary to your story of

this was great. Thank you so much for being with us at the

humans of DevOps podcast. Stay safe, stay human, and hope that

everybody who's listening in to the next time about greetings to

you have a wonderful rest of the day and the weekend is coming.

Rafal Goralski: Yes, let's let's keep this in mind. Thank you

very much. Thanks for having me.

Eveline Oehrlich: Thank you.

Narrator: Thanks for listening to this episode of the humans of

DevOps podcast. Don't forget to join our global community to get

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