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Narrator: You're listening to
the humans of DevOps podcast, a

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podcast focused on advancing the
humans of DevOps through skills,

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knowledge, ideas and learning,
or the SK il framework.

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Rafal Goralski: impostor
syndrome, that's that's

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something that I think people
who are rescaling or starting

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something new have to manage to
overcome, because this will

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appear very frequently appeared
with me if I can advise

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something to anyone. Don't be
discouraged by this.

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Eveline Oehrlich: Hello,
everybody, this is Evelyn Yoli,

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Chief Research Officer DevOps
Institute with another episode

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of our humans of DevOps podcast.
And this one today is a very,

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very, very special one. The
title is a risk telling tale

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from physiotherapist to DevOps
engineer. And with me, I have a

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now very famous person who was
introduced in London at our

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skillup festival. How falgu
ASCII Hello, fall. Hello,

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Rafal Goralski: nice to meet
you. Nice to be here. Thank you.

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Eveline Oehrlich: Yes, thank you
for taking time out of your day,

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which I'm sure is very, very
busy. So let me give you a give

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listeners a quick introduction
today. So I heard about a file

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at a as I already said, skill up
event in London at the festival,

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where one of our ambassadors one
of our great ambassadors, Pablo

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porch, I hope I say his name
right, was talking about a

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learning journey and teaching
DevOps and in his story, he was

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in his slides, and in his
presentation, he mentioned the

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story of Gasol. And the room was
very silent. Everybody was

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listening in you could hear a
needle drop because I and that's

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when I thought I have to meet
this gentleman first. And

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second, I have to bring a story
to to our listeners. But before

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we come to Europhile, I just
wanted to say a few words on

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Pavel. So Pavel actually leads
the DevOps Academy at EPAM, or

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EPM. And EPM systems is an
American company that

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specializes in service
development, digital platform

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engineering, and digital product
design. They're operating out of

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Newton, Pennsylvania. And if
Pavel if you are listening,

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hello, Pavel. Thank you again
for introducing me to FL. And

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thanks to fall again to jumping
on this call. I think like

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within almost like 72 hours, I
had you on there. So

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Rafal Goralski: that's correct.
You are very, very time

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intensive moment. But I did what
I could to join you.

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Eveline Oehrlich: Super? Well
tell us a little bit about

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yourself. Kapha.

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Rafal Goralski: Yeah, so like
you mentioned before

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transitioning into DevOps, I was
a physical therapist for roughly

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nine years. I finished the
school in my hometown, and then

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started postgraduate studies on
academia of osteopathy, here in

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Poland, when unfortunately, the
pandemic came. And for some

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reason, the clinics have PT
workflows for a long time,

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because it was the whole 2020 20
was closed. So I searched for a

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different occupation. So it was
it had to be something with

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computers because we were locked
in home. So I thought that this

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will be a great choice. And I
encountered on my email. The

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first contact was scholarship
offered by CNC F Susa and

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Udacity. If I wanted to
participate, and I didn't have a

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clue what CNC F was, was, will
be the cloud where we'll be the

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tooling there. But I, of course,
said yeah, I want to

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participate. And I didn't get
into that at first. So that was,

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it should lasted three months.
But I was accepted after a month

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because the seats were already
taken. But for some reason, they

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made one more seat, or a couple
of more, and I could get in. And

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that was the first contact that
I had with the tools that are

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used in DevOps, which I didn't
know that those were DevOps

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tools, then because it was
introduction to Docker to

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Kubernetes to see ICD pipelines,
and on a very high level, so

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that was only the theory and
some some some basic repetition

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of the things that were done on
screen because it was online and

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self paced. So that gave me this
sort of ticket to get into the

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EPM academy that was organized.
And the funny thing is that I

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got into the EPM academy after
it was closed the registration.

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So I reached out directly to the
email that was provided on site

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and as the root of my story that
I really, really want to

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participate and if there will be
a chance to make it happen. And

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one of the Are the people from
HR reached out and said, Yeah,

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we could take you and it's it
hasn't started yet. If you pass

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the interview, then it's going
to be okay. And those previous

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experiences from from the CNCF
and Udacity course, were helpful

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to pass the interview and get to
where I was, I was overwhelmed

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by, by the, by the amount of
great people around me and the

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positive experience that was
joining the Academy because it

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was a small community. We were
nine people then. And we started

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learning intensively for eight
hours a day. But it was it was

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joyful and fun. And I really
miss that that period of time.

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Eveline Oehrlich: So two things
you have for sure is tenacity

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and perseverance, which are
great human skills to have in

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this in this world. So have you
in your physical therapy, and in

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your journey through your PT
time, which I think is also a

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great profession because we need
that, particularly for those who

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sit in front of our screen all
day long. You hear about DevOps

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heavy? Did you know what DevOps
was before that?

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Rafal Goralski: Not at all? Not
at all. It was just something

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that was sometimes a title on
the internet where I was

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browsing, but I didn't know what
it what is the programming

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language was something else. I
have no clue. So yeah, I know

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that sounds childish, but I
didn't know what it was a

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learned all those things in the
meantime.

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Eveline Oehrlich: Yeah. Not
childish at all. Because as you

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might know, and as you have done
that, reskilling reskilling is a

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very, very, very hot topic right
now. There are things like with

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great resignation, that's
probably I like to read name it

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to a great reshuffle, where
people are saying, Hey, I'm kind

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of done with what I've done for
the last whatever years, and

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they're really looking for
rescaling themselves. So you are

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the example of a reskilling
journey, which I think is

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fantastic. So I have another
question for you. So why? Why

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DevOps? Was it? I mean,
obviously, you said, right, you

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needed to do some changes, and
you wanted to do something, you

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had home office, we all were
locked into our places. So why

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why specifically, DevOps Was
there another motivation behind

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that it was a pure coincidence
with the CN CF.

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Rafal Goralski: So there was the
pure coincidence at first with

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cn CF. But I didn't know that
this would lead me to DevOps

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directly. So the next thing, my
friend told me about this

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fantastic book, the Phoenix
Project, when I read that, I

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read it as a thriller. So I
thought that it would be a great

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opportunity to be a part of such
a team to change something, and

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to have all those crazy roller
coaster that they were in this

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book. And that kind of
established my way of thinking

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and my way of evolving. So I
thought that, yeah, this is

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something that I really want to
do. I read obviously, a lot of

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articles, then what is DevOps,
some some community sites. And

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also this broadened my my point
of view about DevOps and I, then

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I knew that I want to be a part
of it, and I want to evolve in

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this direction.

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Eveline Oehrlich: Excellent. So
if you go back into those times,

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as you already indicated, tough,
tough times, eight hour

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studying, besides the time
investment, and I'm sure you had

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challenges when it comes to
dealing with the pandemic and

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all of that. But what other
challenges would you say you

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had? What was the toughest
thing? Where you go back and

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say, I made it through?

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Rafal Goralski: Yeah, so there
were a number, a large number of

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those. So basically, I had no
experience in Linux. So the

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first contact with the terminal
was on the CNC f course, when I

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open terminal type ls, and then
something came up and I was

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like, Whoa, yeah, it's works. So
great. So I was really clumsy in

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Linux. So I really spent some
time improving this. So I could

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be a little bit better, faster.
And also a lot of things that I

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didn't knew that came up a lot
of terms. So the best thing that

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I did probably was reading
extensively about any detail

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that I didn't understand that I
didn't know on an even higher

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level, just to have a broader
understanding about what I was

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doing because following
instruction from the screen and

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doing replicating them, it's
easy, but knowing what it

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actually does, it's something
else. So I think that that's

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this is the thing that I did so
reading the things that I didn't

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know and those were the
challenges was a lot of them a

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lot of challenges. But like I
said, gaining that deeper

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knowledge helped me to kind of
understand it better,

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Eveline Oehrlich: any specific
tips you would give to people

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who are thinking you up your
sleeves you would love to share

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and I know our audience would
love to hear.

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Rafal Goralski: Yeah, so the
first thing that it's the

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imposter syndrome, that's that's
something that each of us have,

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I think people who are rescaling
or starting something new have

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to have to manage to overcome
because this, this will appear

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very frequently appeared with
me. And I think that the best

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way was to learn even more
because that the head is

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occupied with something else.
And I didn't have that feeling

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very long when I when I
extensively learned about

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something that I didn't knew.
But it came occasionally back.

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So don't be if I can advise
something to anyone, don't be

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discouraged by this impostor
syndrome, because you're

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learning and that's, that's
natural, I think. And, yeah,

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just a lot of lot of courses,
small courses, about the same

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topic. So if I was learning
about Kubernetes, for example, I

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like to read books, watch films
from from different providers

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just to have the same topic from
a different point of view that

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helped me somehow to understand
the topic a little bit better.

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And, yeah, that's, that's
something that I would encourage

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everyone to do, not just one
course and a very long one, but

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take some shorter ones on a high
level, and understand the topic

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and then go a little bit deeper
into the rabbit hole.

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Eveline Oehrlich: Of course, we
all learn differently, right? I

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learned by reading, but I also
learned by doing so where there

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are a lot of labs and things you
were able to do so that you can

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actually test your skills. Yes,
yes.

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Rafal Goralski: So the the
really fun lab was organized by

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Google, it was Google upskill.
It was a very fun lab, because

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it was all time based. So there
were 30 days to complete it. And

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it was very, very good. Because
there was the terminal there was

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that there had to be no
subscription made, no credit

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card provided. And you can
really dive into it. So check

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the terminal, check the services
that are provided. Also, AWS has

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some latest and Microsoft so
it's all free. And I think that

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it's worth giving it a shot,
because there's a lot of

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extensive materials around
there. And also, they're

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practical, so we can get into
the terminal to the to the

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border, or check your skills in
the cloud on a on a server. So

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that's, that's great.

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Eveline Oehrlich: So you kind of
give up through those labs, you

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get your confidence up, you
know, you can you get that self

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worth, right rises more,

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Rafal Goralski: yeah, those
small rewards, those are really

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important that it's not only the
red font on the screen that

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something's going wrong, but
also the green ones that yeah, a

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small success, you can go
forward. And that's something

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motivating and I think it's also
for us, I mean, I'm I was born

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in 84. So my whole generation
has this sort of attitude that

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we like those kind of small
rewards, like, you know, if you

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post something on Facebook, we
like that someone views it likes

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it. And this is the same sort.
It's really addicting. And I

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think this is the the exact same
feeling when something is done

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for the first time and it works.
That's that's just amazing.

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Eveline Oehrlich: So this is a
little bit of a fairly personal

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question, so you don't have to
answer it if you don't want to.

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But one once you started how
long did it take you? Until you

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realize this is it I'm really
I'm really liking it. I really

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love this and I don't look back
to my PT time. Was it six

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months? Was it nine months was
it? It's still not maybe maybe

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you're still not there?

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Rafal Goralski: The only times
where I looked kind of back at

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Pt career was when someone close
or from the friends that I

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haven't seen in a while asked me
about it. That was the only time

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when I looked back and said no,
I don't want to go back because

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here is it's the learning curve
is steep, but it's really

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rewarding. Like I said it Edie
is also, you have to learn a

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lot, because there are a lot of
courses, a lot of new models of

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treating patients with lumbar
diseases or any other

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dysfunctions. But here, it's all
you can reach out there, there

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are a lot of tools that are
free, open source, whenever a

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new technology comes out, you
can, all you have to do is try

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and reach out for it and try it
with PT is a little bit

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different. Because you have to
organize a course you have to

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attend this course, then you
have then there has to be tested

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on a couple of patients to make
it work. But here is it's under

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each of your hands, actually,
this this whole knowledge and

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it's overwhelming. But it's it's
great.

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Eveline Oehrlich: So the worst
moment of your, of your journey

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so far, if you look back some
some moment in time where you

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say some developer screamed at
me or whatever any any worst

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moment, and we follow that with
the best moment.

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Rafal Goralski: Okay, so I
didn't encounter those moments

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where anyone yelled at me or did
something I wouldn't be pleasant

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about yet. But that may made to
come. I think that the kind of

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wake up call was when we were
divided into groups and in the

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DevOps Academy, and we had to do
something in threes. And I

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didn't know who was who were the
participants in DevOps Academy,

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I thought that everyone was on
the same level as I was, which

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was the true because those
people were superstars in

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computer science as it turned
out. But that gave me a wake up

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call that I need to work harder,
even that I did. So just to

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catch up just to have be near on
the level that they are. And

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that was a huge wake up call for
me that I needed to speed up a

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little bit. It wasn't
unpleasant, but it was it was a

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wake up call. If we talk about
pleasant things, I encountered

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really great people that are on
my path. People who had over 20

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years of experience, senior
developers who took me in like,

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on like a Padawan taught me a
lot of things. And yeah, that

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was That was excellent. I went
to one of the projects that I

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was assigned to and EPAM, after
the academy, that I was accepted

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to one of the developers was
very kind and had a huge impact

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on my thinking about a lot of
things.

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Eveline Oehrlich: And so that
coach that peer, co who

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motivates you, who gives you
some tips, that's great. I

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remember having that person as
well. Way back in my IT

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operations career, which even at
nighttime, I was going home and

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just thinking that person in my
head to keep me abreast and to

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keep me motivated. That's great
to hear. So

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Rafal Goralski: great. Because
whenever I had a small success

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outside, even when the project
ended, and I had a small

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success, like passing official
exam from Microsoft, I

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immediately think them that
yeah, I managed to do it. And we

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were like, we weren't talking
for a couple of months. But then

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I decided to share and he was
also very happy that Yeah, you

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did it. So great.

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Eveline Oehrlich: Super shout
out to that person. Fantastic.

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One, one additional question.
And then we're about ready to

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wrap up is when you Where are
you? What's next for you in

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terms of learning? I'm sure. I
mean, you you always learn,

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right? We all learn every day on
all kinds of things. But

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specifically, have you set
yourself some specific goals for

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the rest of the year? Or for
next year? Where you want to go?

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Rafal Goralski: Yes, yes, of
course. So this year, the sixth

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of October, I'm taking the
Microsoft az 104 exam. So that

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will complement the one that I
already have. So that's the plan

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for this year. After that, maybe
next year, maybe somewhere

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around January, February, I
would like to do the CPA. But

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that's something I need to
prepare a little bit more for

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that. And I think the next would
be also pursuing the Microsoft.

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So aizat, three or five Solution
Architect, but that's a little

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bit in the near future, but a
bit more distant than that.

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Eveline Oehrlich: Fantastic.
Don't forget to live a little

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bit, because outside of the
pandemic, and we can come to

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Germany, come visit me. I'll
take you out for some local

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beer.

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Rafal Goralski: Oh, there'll be
there'll be excellent. Fun as a

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little reward

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Eveline Oehrlich: for for your
hard work. That would be fun.

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Well, certainly if you are in
the in the in the area. I mean,

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the northern and the southern
part of Germany, stopped by

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happy to guide you through some
of our local breweries or

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00:19:47,010 --> 00:19:51,030
whatever else, whatever beverage
you'd like to prefer. Fantastic.

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Rafal Goralski: Well remember
that thank you very much.

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Eveline Oehrlich: This has been
a great conversation. This has

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been really, really a pleasure.
very motivational, very

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00:19:58,980 --> 00:20:04,440
inspiring thing. Cuba file for
your fantastic honesty and your

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00:20:04,470 --> 00:20:07,920
you are the spirit of DevOps. I
can see it, I can feel it. I

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have one more question a little
bit more around fun part. What

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is it you like to do on the
weekend? Well,

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Rafal Goralski: on the weekends

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Eveline Oehrlich: I have you
studying? No, no, no, I

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Rafal Goralski: try to I try to
limit this a little bit. But I

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have two small daughters. So I
tried to spend my time with

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them. But in the evening, I
cannot promise that I will not

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be studying. So that's something
that I do, just like in this

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book that I read about, just for
fun by Linus Torvalds. It's the

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00:20:39,269 --> 00:20:43,409
same. I mean, it's just a fun
journey being paid for what

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what's actually fun. Yeah.

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Eveline Oehrlich: Well, that's a
great summary to your story of

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00:20:49,110 --> 00:20:52,770
this was great. Thank you so
much for being with us at the

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00:20:52,800 --> 00:20:57,150
humans of DevOps podcast. Stay
safe, stay human, and hope that

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everybody who's listening in to
the next time about greetings to

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00:21:01,470 --> 00:21:05,160
you have a wonderful rest of the
day and the weekend is coming.

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Rafal Goralski: Yes, let's let's
keep this in mind. Thank you

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very much. Thanks for having me.

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Eveline Oehrlich: Thank you.

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Narrator: Thanks for listening
to this episode of the humans of

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00:21:14,460 --> 00:21:18,030
DevOps podcast. Don't forget to
join our global community to get

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00:21:18,030 --> 00:21:21,390
access to even more great
resources like this. Until next

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00:21:21,390 --> 00:21:24,810
time, remember, you are part of
something bigger than yourself.

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00:21:25,140 --> 00:21:25,890
You belong