Etgar Keret

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[0:00] Music.

[0:23] Hello and welcome to Unsam Methods with me Jamie Batchen and me Laughlin Bloom.

[0:37] And in this episode we speak to the Israeli writer Edco carrot,

It's mainly known for his short stories which are actually short. Obviously sort of rained one page and every head to a great chat with him about how he started writing stories initially in.

Hey so chicken fire me,

Yeah hey is it a fascinating chat about how how he approaches

Writing set sharp pieces I mean he's a writer rich in metaphor I think when he discusses the writing process he got some really interesting

Parallels join with surfing and tight road walking. Er I got some some good quotes that I pulled out as well. I've just jotting down while we're interviewing.

I'll particularly like a good story has to be smarter than the person writing it. I thought that is that's good. Yeah. I can really I can get on board with that.

I think I might also reply to podcasting as well.

Thank you to them. And also writing is dealing with the ecosystem of who you are. Yeah.

Gonna absolutely go on board with that. Without any further ado.

[2:00] When did you feel it writing was career or professional did you start writing seriously

I think this moment in my life is easier to come you know because I think setting a sense I always enjoyed telling stories,

I mean even say it's such a time to enjoy telling stories that I needed stories or I was dependent in stories to kind of deal with the word you know I

I I remember that the first story I've ever made up was when I was about I think 6 years old eh I went to see a movie,

Disney movie or whatever.

And who had a cast on his right arm.

And he was a sitting in front of me kind of blocking my view and I didn't know what to do. I was kinda looking for an anger, hurricanes,

And she had it she was holding a popcorn bucket and she had a.

Hey.

I don't remember what the movie was but I remember that I I felt this kind of kind of anxiety that this kind of the arbitrary.

[3:28] Why would somebody with a right broken arm?

Date somebody with the eh broken lockdown and I'm going to by the end of the movie I came up with this.

Susie it made himself a suit and the boss detailed both fitting it together and they pretend to be a ceramic twins and the the manager of the circus kind of figured out they were cheating.

And he decided there's a punishment to break their arms but because he had this big suited.

You forgot today the inner arms so just broke your alternative.

But my ability to kind of wish some kind of story around something that I didn't understand a kind of relax.

[4:23] And made these fingers timed kind of threatening less frightening because,

Historic.

In a jar then.

You're all my young years I would tell people stories and it will it was kind of 10 more I think is some kind of a tick,

Whenever something happened and I'm stressed or whatever.

[5:04] I say hey imagine a word where people do this and do that and this woman she comes and,

A respected in a sense you know it was like I I stood that I had the problem but it was like oversweating or sneezing or something you just take something that I have to deal with

It was only when I.

Hey before compass and it was only,

During my army services that I basically.

[5:44] It was seen in the weird but bearable you know when you're in high school or,

He's basically in the army doesn't work you know he's like when you with soldiers or with your commander and we say hey you know no it's like you know imagine that you have this frog and this frog really wants to play the piano but his weight is not enough you know to hit,

Is it you're gonna get into trouble in seconds so I was kind of able to.

Hope myself back in this month you know not only not telling story but basically not being,

I still had this kind of need to formulate things around,

The arbitrary nest or my my.

[6:43] To some people.

That it kinda seemed right but but it wasn't but it wasn't the.

Because what happened was sitting in my in high school and I majored in physics and nest.

And I was already written I was supposed to go after Miami service to to become an engineer.

[7:10] And the,

Story on paper it look different is an when you tell a story in your head,

And it can almost look like a story. It almost looks like something that one could read in a book, you know, and in the army, I had to take those 24

To 3066 hours shift to where I was completely loan

In a close room you so eh when I finished writing the writing eh the stories it was eh one page long.

I basically had to wait for almost 20 hours before I could meet another person and take hey,

Hey can you have a look.

And he said no fuck off you know so I I

And we change shifts around 6 AM which is very difficult hour to to find videos you know so I was kind of wondering outside of my,

The mile of the army base and I,

Hey the apartment building of my my older brother he was like I'm not.

[8:39] When do you forward the timer 25 and i buzz this intercom and it can answer the very sleepy voice and set to look

I wrote something I really want you to read because I want

I want you to see can I come up and he said no no it's not a good idea you know it's not even 7 AM and you walk up my girlfriend and if you come up it will be really really messy but.

I can come down with my dog and i read the story while walking my dog,

And the university.

[9:17] Relieve his dog ears so he can't do that when somebody walks.

But my brother was like so much into in the stories that he kinda didn't notice that the dog was feeling really really uncomfortable and,

Animal lover.

[9:36] I can't hear this instinct to say to my private role you know,

Super short so after a few minutes,

My brother stopped and the dog did what he planned to do the first place in the and he was looking when he said you wrote it a message,

Great but I would never think that there is such story kind of hiding in you.

And you should kinda give you a hug and a true and he helped me and he said that you have another copy of of the story,

Yes of course and yet great and he bent down and he picked the dog shit you know with the,

With the printed page and as he was doing it he was talking to me about the story that he was sent and he know I really loved it but when this guy,

And like and he takes the the.

And we just keep on walking and he's talking a kind of keeps looking at that bin you know with flag room in around my shit covered story and I remember this this moment as the moment in which I.

[10:54] Hey set myself I wanna be right,

Do you the special washing powder and screen you know so I felt that my my brother was giving me AA demonstration of the power of the stories that he said let me know,

Stories are not piece of paper like I mean you can,

Frozen in the bean you can we cover them with dog poop but look we're walking down the street and I'm still talking about them like you know it doesn't matter like it's the the stories in my mind it deserve forever and I think it

That for me being in the army.

You know if I give it to a guy and he reads it and I command coming to the room.

Any cherry to pieces of burn down that piece of paper,

That guy will already have the story in it like nobody can take it out you know no no court marshal no superior officer you know

The story will be in him forever you know and it kinda felt like a like a superpower or like a.

[12:14] The first dimension you know place that you can escape to or take a shortcut for a

Publishing books and then the book signings and podcast about it was just kind of like,

When you just,

Or I don't know jump 1 foot you know so you identify at that point about writing AA very short story that seemed to come there through necessity,

But did you feel from that point on that that just that form fitted,

How your ideas came to you and how you wanted to express yourself because that's obviously something you've continued with.

I would basically.

[13:10] A idea was that I would write a story and I would print four or five copies

You know and and that was the print one and the and sometimes it's the really like one story I would try to write a sequel or something of the story that my brother liked on my mum like

It had this kind of functions that that it seemed.

Enough, you know, that I never even kind of considered pushing it. It's funny because the,

Because i came to publishing my stories right in a total random way it wasn't really like there was this thing that they say okay now I'm gonna make it to start if it was just a I would say studying in university.

And they I was in some kind of owner's program so I I've got this depending on because I would mostly ride at night I would be late for my eh morning classes.

[14:07] And then my mush were good but the but the idea was if the disrespect university because I don't come to the classes and they may visit.

[14:17] I don't deserve a new and they did this kind of a academic meeting about my future.

And he said look it's a it was it was it's like better call Soul you know which we should eh build a story we should have a story when I go there and he said.

They don't care because your marks are okay but but they feel as if they're not important enough so we should tell them that you're not doing it because you're doing something as important

And I,

So I can't fall asleep so I can't wake up and it's.

[14:59] But when you're awake, what do you do? And I said, right? So, yeah, that's good. You see, you're right. And he said, can you give me something that you wrote and I said to him.

[15:08] Why? And he said, because I have a friend who's a professional

And then I come to the community and I say you know yeah he he is an artist he write at night that's why he doesn't come but he works hard and he keeps his mark

Anything but what if it's gonna say that it's crap and he said

Oh, you don't get any. This is university's never gonna say that it's crap. He's gonna say it's subversive. He's gonna say it's more than he's gonna say something about it.

But it's not gonna give you a mark. You know, we just gonna say something, you know. It's okay and I gave him a few stories and then, the professor he wrote the letter saying,

Subversive post modern tales

And do you know and the ever said okay you can keep this depending and I was very happy,

And I would suggest it about the,

Phone call from the Twitter professor.

And so yeah I wanted to ask do you have any more texts that you wrote?

And he said, no, no, no, I just got a position as an editor and I'm supposed to to do this line of,

And I remember that the I want so your text if you have more answer is good I'll publish your book.

[16:37] And basically these was kind of my publishing story so so it was something that I think about about my entire relationship with stories that it was almost like a.

[16:47] The stories led me somewhere more than I did.

Because it's basically the way that I write you know it's really it's like AA when I teach my university I often say it that I hate it when people.

Can to see a story,

A hammer or a knife or something that you can leverage

Practically but basically you're totally controlled you know you are the master of the story because I said that when you write this short story the ways that I do,

Hey feels the story is much more like a horse like if you imagine a cowboy's horse,

So host is not a is not like a hammer in that sense that.

[17:35] You don't totally control it, you know, sometimes it doesn't want it right, sometimes the it goes.

[17:44] It is water and it want to drink them but basically gives you a much more than a hammer can give you because it's kind of a partner and if it doesn't want to go somewhere maybe there's a quick sand or in Indian ambulance or

You have some kind of relationship in it in which.

[18:01] You should kind of tell the horse the January,

Direction where you're going but you should also listen to the host you know and I think that.

That my publishing story is very much like my story writing story that says that,

I was never in control of

Control,

You have the the sort of impetus for a new story. Was there any difference when you started writing them down as opposed to having them in your head? I mean you talked to when you were six and,

People with presumably at that stage you weren't you didn't have a pen and paper in this it was dark in any case ehm were you sort of.

Thinking through different possibilities or did it sort of come fully formed of,

Over the course of the film flashing out or maybe maybe they had an arm,

Arm wrestling competition and that's how they brought the opposite arms or I don't know they.

[19:16] Did you have do you still kind of look at different.

Possible routes through a story or does it does it kinda come in a flash as a this is a crux of it and then you you might change a few,

The idea of the story comes in one go. It depends.

Make a photo of that process I just saw in some Netflix series about surfers what I think is the reason.

In the sense that i think that he is so free all the time you alert.

And you can take choices,

And what angle can I be? Is it.

[20:19] I could write a story.

But if this story goes south and things go bad,

Then basically it's I I will not try to impose on the story to keep the the original track because I know that if I do it I lose the story I lose the tone of the story,

Optimistic stories on either time because now we're gonna massacre these family and feed it to the gym do you know?

But what can I do? You know, and I feel something,

Hey Facebook.

Helps me feel that I'm not a gong food emotions,

Actually going through an adventure because because the wave can shift.

Hey makes writing much more enjoyable because basically you write to figure things out it's you don't write that you know already something and you wanna.

[21:26] Turn those down feed people living figure it out yet.

[21:30] You know, your smartphone, you know, it's a difference between I don't know naturally going on a date, with a girl or a guy,

And I was thinks happening and you go to bed I think it's such a much better scenario than kind of having a page with a few pointers.

Hey don't talk about sport a go and check in restaurant if you don't smell I need,

You can get today this way too but it's so much less fun and and there is something that in a sense feels a.

Let's earnest about the and I think it this kind of consciousness or control is necessary when you write something.

Hey with a big structure,

But when you write the way that I do and you write for dysfunctions that I guess gets me writing the you really excuse from that and I think that,

Maybe maybe I can making it up you know just to kind of feel better but I think that it's a bit difference between writing such a story,

Is a inviting stories that you're planning on mine it's like the difference between let's say telling you guys,

Sorry about the reading that I once had in Saint Petersburg and his guideline group kind i can tell you,

An amazing story, you know, and you say, wow, my God, this was great. Or if I say, hey, guys. I'm going to read in Saint Peter's book. I don't know what's gonna happen

I don't know I think this guy in the back is drunk you wanna come with me let's see what's gonna happen,

Hey.

[22:58] We basically both in the same position I'm not a puppy to your kind of manipulating the emotion I'm just.

Golden root and and this doesn't mean that I don't have any idea about what I want I I I know what I want and I know that the story

Has it on gravitational force and and I'm kind of rolling with it you know it's it I always tell my students that story by a good story but definition has to be smarter.

Person who's writing it because I say if the story is as smart.

You're not tracking story. You're assembling an IKEA furniture. Your basically going for motions. You don't discover something new about yourself but if you kind of let yourself learn something that you didn't know, then not only you get that but you get.

[23:46] It's so much easier to write. I give you an example. Let's say I wrote it. I write a story and in my story, I have this general notion.

That you will be the sky and his kind of an esso and he's really not nice.

Any fights with her and his way back home. Eh somebody magazine.

And he changes. Okay, this is the story I'm beginning to write.

Now if I get to the magging scene knowing for sure the discount is gonna survive the muggy.

That she's gonna survive against any goals.

Basically I will not be able to write this in very well because because I would want to get from point A to point B.

I would just go food emotions. There will be no sensation but if I write this thing.

[24:44] I really hope is a disguise not gonna die you know because oh shouldn't have said that you know oh I think the other guy is using his patient I.

I hope to some of you will arrive soon you know because I I don't like what the way it's going it's basically the same kind of.

Bose.

Is really something that eh it makes it more vivid and you know and that returns me to to something from this eh Netflix eh surface series it's it's called the,

100 feet wave.

And they,

Geiser is British is from Devon and his plumber and his surfer a plumber with a surfers surfer with a plumber,

Waves.

The only way to survive it is if you're totally in the present if you say to yourself this is the way that I've been waiting for.

Years or if you say.

[26:00] Hey when I go out I'm gonna say that or if I fall I'll try is it you gonna drown in a second you don't have a chance the only way is it when you're there you just think about the place you're in,

And I feel that there is something about writing,

Zen,

But much more truthful and authentic in you because you know because when I see now the lady in the street trying to cross the street.

Then I say to myself I'm a good guy I've been a good guy all my life and when the beer bring me I would like the weather to say that I was a good guy so I'm gonna have this woman cross the street.

[26:48] But when I write a story.

In one story on my trip this elderly lady you know I don't know why like you know just like this town,

Suddenly fell and then ran you know and there'll be something about it that,

Elevate this side of me is never present.

[27:13] Music.

[27:41] How does it sort of split between the mental,

Storytelling and how much of the adventure are the the surfing takes place

Say you see an old lady in the street and you haven't have a thought of oh

Imagine if I tripped her I don't know you may not have a pen and paper to hands do you sort of hold on to that thought until later on when you get home and and ride her

Is is the creative process only happening when you're in front of your desk with,

Hey I don't know if you if you're writing a computer is it only happening when you're

Hands are physically riding the words are at pieces of the the,

Sort of floating around in your head for a few days so a few hours ago few months

So let's say when it comes to,

You know, I go on the subway and say, oh, I'm gonna push this one.

Existing we'll come out you know but what I think is usually like.

[28:54] A story for me has this kind of pain you know it's okay.

[29:01] In your home and suddenly sometimes you can see it stay you know so I I you kind of notice those things when you walk down the street or when you leave your life and basically you say I cannot

Maybe I try to grab that tail and when that animal we start running around if I hold.

Take enough I'll be able to hold it but but I think they do,

Is it when I think about stories and you know and it's funny because there are those stories that they sit down writing without really.

Doing anything just you know I can have a sentence in my mind or an image and I just write them and the writing says and there are those stories that it's very very difficult for for me.

To bring myself to sit down and write them it's kind of like you know I have a story but I have no idea I'm kind of infamous in my.

I try to dump stories on them.

Imagine somebody says you are cool and say.

How about you rated it it's a good story and basically there is this kind of feelings that that you know it's it's really like.

[30:09] Is there something in it,

The innate short story collection,

Two stories for me. You take one of the stories that you wrote.

It's a story about something that happened between me and my dad.

[30:27] Hey,

I knew that I have no access to it. It just I can see it but I can't be it you know

Second part,

Of an old wine you know something that kind of feels different,

While while you have those kind of stories that I wrote in 3 hours without knowing what I'm doing with it feel kind of more fruity and.

[31:03] If if a story is a horse then you can have so many different relationship with the horse,

You know he could be like one that is a I don't know where,

Is it sometimes ready to ride it and I feel the story kind of functions in beauty,

Function different ways stories it come from.

The treats to something that they don't have.

And I had to take a bath and I as I was waiting for the bus there was another guy.

In the bus stop wedding with me and shoes can't bear dressed and

He was going somewhere and he was doing a coffee from a disposable cup from the kind of,

The most expensive one and he was holding under his arm he usually pepper code that Alex which is basically like the guardian or the New York Times.

[32:16] And the as we were waiting he kind of booties arm up because she wanted to take a sip.

And when you do DJ the newspaper film you know the ones that you was holding the under his kind of armpit.

He was really cool about it and he smiled to me like any bent down and he picked the newspaper and we waited a bit more.

Anthony came to take another sip and it fell again and he got it again and then when it happened further time a I burst him tears.

Job interview you know with kind of tough eyes so I'm ran back to my home,

To wash my face and I said that I'm gonna grab a cabin and get the entire.

[33:05] You know anything? I saw the most sad thing in the world.

And she says to me this isn't the,

People getting bumped that said this guy just stupid guy could just put a newspaper somewhere and drink it I said no but but you know and you feel utterly dumb you know and eh.

[33:36] But there is something that you feel that,

It's kind of some kind of unique experience

Any kind of create some kind of forms that makes it public. It's a little bit like you build it.

A bridge that is boast between your unconsciousness and your consciousness but also between your unconsciousness and the word.

[34:06] And there and I really feel the kind of it's never sitting down to write this perfect story it's kind of sitting down.

To write something a test to do with a crammy that you think that it is interesting you know or it's like it's a I have to snooze that and,

Increase full.

[34:31] You know all those kind of things that are not true but they are fun and I started writing between that he was a little bit story,

And the story was a kind of started with a,

It will allow people for time travel you know like those kind of plank to space like space it would,

To reach people, you know?

Is a can't bring you back people can kind of react until they say nine or is it going on a holiday.

But never coming back I don't we don't know and and the.

Because the important thing about time travel is a very side effect that if you go to the past you lose some few weight and if you go to the future you gain some weight because of the math speed thing.

So we said.

[35:40] And this one we can sell it and then they can pick up speed and they sell it to rich people and the people kind of deciding

How much weight you wanna lose this season is sentence to the past because you should just wanna lose a few pounds you know then you just go to 70s,

But if you know video based we have to send you really like you know.

[36:02] Hey,

Hey fat people from the future being sent to the past they really form the line of humanity you know because like Steve Jobs you know,

Is this fat guy from the 22nd century you know,

You know,

Kind of premise.

There is this guy recommend the story and his the inventor of the of the mechanism and he's really really obese.

[36:45] And he goes there in the end he said okay my job is done.

Now, you send me to the past. I really wanna be skinny and set to, you know, you know, you know the physics really that I.

You really fat you know we have to send you way back.

[37:02] And you said I don't care you know you can send me to dinosaurs time I want to be,

Funny enough so I can walk on water.

[37:22] Is so fat you know and.

All those people are using him and he say I I can't do it and when he go comes back to the past he carries all this kind of stuff,

Hey.

The character that you're creating and send you places because.

[37:54] Basically because I guess I'm also kind of smart in the sky and many times,

No idea what to say or to get out of it but because I know the characters so well so it's almost like I say ah if I was this guy that's what I would say you know so so it's not in a conscious way but in an unconscious way I say I don't know what to do,

But Charlie does. So, I tell you what, you know, and then.

[38:25] Hey

To get to those,

I can see this sort of

That that must have occurred at some point. Did you sort of take a note to,

Story could go or would would you

Well I think it's very rare that I kind of take those notes I can tell you that right now let's say I have,

Something that I like about eight stories is that I'm kind of resting with,

Different kind of wrestling you know because it's a one of the stories it has a premise and a sensation but it has no protocol and the other stories there basically I write them.

I began writing them but I feel the tone is off and there are some stories that I know they plot.

[39:47] I have no idea how to write it. So, so I have about eight of these but I can say to you that I think.

[39:57] I have ideas for more than one story everyday and I write a story I would say about.

[40:03] Every 2 months. You know, so, so basically, it's in the end, I write a story out of I don't know, 600.

[40:11] Ideas for stories or openings for stories and and there and I I think that.

Is there eating some kind of an evolutionary,

A more dessert because because it to become one of the eight you know I have to feel that for you I have to resolute maybe in the end when I sit down to write,

Some other story from the past will kind of just candle.

[40:37] Run out of its cage and kind of take control but.

Come back or hang hang out there.

Jotting that day in seven for a just the idea comes and then if it if in 2 months time it reoccurs to you and you like it you'll go with it

It's not that I can't.

I I have a lot of bitterness towards myself about that you know because I think that you know,

Whenever I aim a feel it may be I don't know disconnected or greedy or unhappy I can sit down and say oh my God there's so many stories,

That you could have written and you don't write in so many ideas that you forgotten it wasn't that you know that stories that I wrote.

[41:50] And did I forget I wrote them it's really it's funny because because I have a personal assistant that whenever birthdays,

And she just roams through my heart this can every birthday she gives me a text I wrote to the,

I forgot to get roti do you know because I can't even keep a one folder for the stories that I come up with.

[42:14] What you like in the end of the fight of the name of the final thing because sometimes I write fine and sometimes I write final final.

Sometimes I write that's it you know and then I can't find anything anywhere and I think most of the time I say to myself you know that's a good deal basically I enjoy writing stories and the.

I can't doing well and you know these two guys eh,

From greetings they wanna talk to me about stories so I must be doing something right and a professional university,

And basically it's good enough. You know, okay. So, okay. So, sometimes I lose.

Eh when I don't write where or when I'm not able to kind of express myself in writing that I say ah ah you know.

[43:05] If somebody else said your abilities he would do so much more agreed and you know like I feel like I can't do it.

[43:12] Hey first grade teacher is talking to my mom you know something and do you have a sort of a sense of how far through,

How far you want to progress with a story before you're happy that it's gonna sort of survive and you're gonna work on it. I mean, do you have a kind of.

I don't wanna say it a huge collection of dead ends but are there stories that you you just know you just can't get the shape of you feel there's something there and they're just,

They're waiting to be worked on. But but I mean you've got to more formal point. You have actually been writing and working on them not just thinking about them. So so I I think again you know

It means that I don't really have an answer. So, instead of using.

Let's see if you imagine I could.

[44:08] You wanna you wanna get to the other end you know you don't wanna fall when you serve you don't wanna fall off your board if the wave is to be you just you

You wanna get there but the idea is that can't get trying together is basically what you enjoy. So, if you walk a very long road, you say ha ha this is the Guinness.

But basically when I write a story,

In an unconscious way I always tried to write those stories short as I can.

[44:41] Basically I it's I can't take I wanna get some more and they say do you visit I'm writing a story because I want to get somewhere and this thing is metaphorical you know it's not a bad time but I want to get to this part in the world where.

You should emotion and finger do you understand this is a tick you know I want it.

I cannot train. I wanna get there. You know, I I it's not there is something very impatient about it.

Music. There are many stories that they actually sit down to having strong fitting single okay like a I say to my wife yeah I know okay tomorrow morning I'll meet you for lunch and then.

Basically.

[45:23] 607 hours later I'm still hammering the teeth and I'm not even in the half point of the store.

[45:33] You think that you can but if

During that process are you working on the sentences editing the sentences to just trying to get the right feel or do you try to get from sort of A to B and then go back and redraw,

I think that my editing process is is really strange because because I have candle and extra editing stage,

Novelists are excused of,

I take drafted that I I've written I read it.

[46:22] I throw it away and I sit down and write in that story from scratch.

Basically is there a few things in it to stay with you like you know a metaphor is sentenced a situation a picture.

But but a lot of it gets washed away and many time when I do this kind of process I write a second a second version that is less goods in the first one.

You know and then what I do is I compare to when I return to the first one and then I try to add things from the second one but but it's a deal of kind of writing it from scratch.

[47:00] Kind of gives you this freedom.

You know it's really.

Hey stories yes kind of a sensation.

You cannot explain or you cannot break to molecules.

Birthday I I have these things at some time that I write a story and it's a.

I tried to write it for a person narrative.

[47:48] When I wrote it on third person.

Because when I wrote the third person I wasn't in this guy's kind of mine website.

Zena I was cool enough to realize that he actually had more options than I saw when I wrote the first person so so he said.

They can TV show,

I don't know.

[48:30] Something in the ending doesn't work or.

The middle is too long or you know I wrote that because I needed it because I didn't know at the time but I just added this character he never returns who needs him you know so he could go many ways but I think it's funny because it gives you some things that

This kind of feeling of lake of total control.

When I write I feel the same thing about editing like I feel there is nothing totally,

Some kind of techniques you know that are usually weird you know it's actually take,

Every stories that they write when a read it I always try to read it without the first sentence.

And eh if it works I try to read it without the second sentence and if it works okay until it stops working,

And and you know and sometimes I could write a five if five page story and going through this process it become a two page becomes a two page story EG just kind of,

Even when I do those processes it feels more like kind of a.

[49:41] Casting dispels and.

[49:43] Writing a computer program.

[49:54] I'm kinda professional in university and people like to use terms that masterclass and you know and sometimes if I go to give reading in the US they say.

One of the masters of the shorts or something in that end.

And it always kind of feels a bit wrong, you know, almost kind of like your, you're in impostors or something. I really feel that.

There is something about writing that this is the things that I don't know and understanding life. There's so many thing other things.

That people could say that I'm the master of you know,

And the masters who most for example.

[50:42] When it comes to writing it sexy what like I'm supposed to teach you something yeah yeah you know when you see people in bus stop cry that okay cry that and then fight with your wife,

And and it's funny because when you're writing you always find yourself in the end teaching.

[51:02] And end and for me it was really kind of meeting with students it was all about in the beginning same to them.

You know we're all alcoholics. We're doing weird stuff. We sit down. We make up stories. It never existed. Most people don't do that.

But we can get up in tennis story and then everybody would come and hugs it woman or men and say,

It's alright. I mean, we also do that. It's okay. We also make up stories. You know, we love you. And and,

And did the the schedule I could change it I don't know for me teaching maybe it's a little bit like kind of a starting,

Psychotherapy maybe it's really like when you work with students is more about kind of trying to figure out who's in.

What are the interesting.

But in the bottom line it's really like it's a,

Executive

People how to write they feel a quacks you know I feel I and they actually feel.

[52:26] Is there any person in the world can write but it's a problem you know to get there and you know I'll be happy to give some tips but,

Tell them what to do and then they'll come out right it's really kind of misunderstanding the concept of writing you know it's really it's a I say to my my my students that,

Each of them is like a planet and I sent to them I can visit your planet.

[52:55] But I can't give you a tour guide to the planet because you've been living in it all your life I can go on your two guide and ask you,

And what's this thing and you could say I didn't never notice this.

Strange and scary anyone in the woods thank you for telling me that but but in the bottom line writing is about kind of a dealing with the ecosystem of who you are you know you can't bring in outside the expert to teach you that

Set a following on for that I guess it I'd I'd this might be extending the surfing metaphor too far but,

Traveled specifically to this,

The location in Portugal to find this way do you.

[53:46] Yesterday make AA conscious choice to go somewhere

And then once he's in the water he has still severe and looking around for the wave

To catch I don't know I don't know this major

Do you have places or routines or habits that that you go to obviously at different for every every ride of what what works for them

A certain place where you like to write a certain way of writing. I mean, unappractical level. Do you write with a pan or computer or

Read aloud,

Computer because my handwriting is not very clear and the thing is at the more excited I become the less clear it becomes so.

[54:37] At some stages like I would write to myself stories on paper and it would unable to read what I wrote like certain sentences,

It's also like,

Hey check it curse because,

And I think that there is it for me when I write of course I can always save those kind of writer houses you know I wrote one of my books in a place in New Monahan,

In Ireland the time got to institute and it's really great you know when you go to those places.

[55:19] JT is a very quiet.

For me it's kind of a nice and if I go to a place that I would write more but.

[55:33] Technically I think I can write anywhere.

Which means that I can't write in a space where.

They say I hear other people speaking.

I can't write anything to face and stuff because.

I do all kinds of stuff like you know I pick my nose all the time or scratch myself and usually like I leave Israel,

Social.

When I write a story.

[56:27] I'm not in the place that I'm I physically am in another place so so I I remember that I was one from this beautiful writer it's currently called the McDowell.

It's in New Hampshire.

And you have beautiful view and they because your heart soon you have like view from free directions.

Hey can you just see forest you don't see any buildings and I would I would spend hours looking out of the window and the 1 day eh another item from the currently came to visit me.

And he asked me said you know when I look at your request you stink I see that your laptop.

[57:17] Basically so basically when you see you see you see the restaurants and you in one of the most beautiful places in the world why.

[57:24] Why would you wanna write facing the restaurants and I said to him.

Then I I fortunately when I don't write it all the time I look outside of the window.

[57:38] So, so when I write, I really don't care because I'm not in forest, you know, I'm right now, I'm robbing the, you know, a bank, you know, in in Atlanta.

So who cares if the idea like I'm writing a story you know,

I'm in my mind. So, it kind of became natural and I think he stole it. It's always the same, you know, the place that I write, it's basically the worst spot in my my apartment. It used to be a toilet.

Hey,

I'm doing stuff it just kind of like a portal that I've got I'm going through,

For all the times that I'm actually in the moment and can you smell watch enjoy things.

Well thank you to Edgar for joining us and thank you to you for listening,

We will include information about it in his writing in the notes below this episode with links et cetera.

[58:47] Music.

[58:59] Co. UK. We're on Twitter at Untime Methods

I'm on Twitter at Jamie Batchen spoke in my idiotic way.

Instagram is at Jamie underscore batch and I have

Just worked on a new website I've shifted host it's pretty much the same text as it always was but now there's a little bit easier for to add them I'm hoping to put a little bit more stuff on that

I accidentally listing. I will talk to you next time.

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