Alexei Sayle: Hi, everybody.
Welcome to podcast number 29 of the Alexei Sayle podcast.
This is, uh, uh, an easygoing cattle loping sugar foot, kind of
a, you'd have to be like really old to remember what the fuck that was.
Talal Karkouti: Well, yeah.
What the fuck are you talking about?
Alexei Sayle: Cattle.
That's a, what's cattle loping?
That was a, Oh, there was a, in the 1960s, I think there was a black and
white western TV series shown on, um, Grard television, I think up north
called, I think it was called Sugarfoot.
We, Warner Brothers used to make the, used to have had a huge stable of kind
of half hour westerns that they made.
Um, yeah, um, Maverick was one.
Um, There was one that started Clint East with Raw Hide, uh, have
gone with travel and sugarfoot.
And it was this, the theme song went something like, I think he, he, he
roping eloping capital rope show Go Foot.
I think his, his kind of usp, his, his, his particular thing
was that he was quite gentle.
That's why he was called Sugarfoot.
I think he was less macho than, um, uh, if you got a book day, you're looking it all.
Oh, that's funny.
Talal Karkouti: Cause I was just reading about, um, I was just
reading, uh, Alan Moore graphic novel.
All right.
The, the last, um, League of Extraordinary Gentleman book.
And at the beginning of each kind of chapter, they, they have a, they write
a passage about, and kind of memory of a graphic, not an a comic book artist.
All right.
In the past, One of the ones they mentioned.
And they're all British, by the way.
Yeah.
One of the ones they mentioned, maybe Dennis McLoughlin Right.
Was like obsessed with these Western Oh, right.
From America and wrote and drew a lot of British comic
books about cowboys and stuff.
Yeah.
It was Dennis McLaughlin, Buffalo Bill, Wild West, shit like that.
So it's, it's funny
Alexei Sayle: how that one, but yeah.
Yeah.
You brought that there was, um,
Talal Karkouti: there's an obsession in the UK around that
time about cowboys and stuff.
Like it wasn't just in America, the fan base
Alexei Sayle: there was, you know.
Yeah, yeah.
There was, I guess they had a big impact.
There was also that thing, which, you know, that, um, a lot of the British
series, like Robin Hood and William Tell and stuff, that they were actually, a
lot of them were written by, Communists who'd fled from the McCarthyite
pages in Hollywood in the fifties.
So, Oh.
If you look at, you know, if you look at epi, you know certain episodes of
William tell, you know, the, they're called like dialectical and historical
materialism, , but they, they actually do contain subtle kind of communist
Marxist messages if you, So that's with
Talal Karkouti: Robin Hood.
It's not so subtle
Alexei Sayle: though, is it?
Cause it's Well whole Exactly.
Yeah.
. He invented
Talal Karkouti: Proto
Alexei Sayle: Bandit.
Yeah.
Eat the Rich.
Yeah.
. Talal Karkouti: And nowadays all the Robin Hood films are all American
productions, even though they obviously have to cast Brits in the roles.
And the last ones made my guy Richie, wasn't it?
I did something.
Alexei Sayle: You were,
Talal Karkouti: I did some ADR in that, Robin.
Okay.
Cause it starts in the Crusades in the Middle East.
Yeah.
Where Robin Hood gets all his training and I, I voiced a bunch of Arabs
being shot with arrows and stuff,
Alexei Sayle: you know, I can't watch it.
I said this before, I can't watch a film set in the Middle East now.
Cause I was, You like that?
I was watching that chase scene in, um, the, the third born film,
you know, which is in Ang, I think.
Yeah.
And then I just add you going, you know,
How did you know my line?
I didn't know.
Yeah.
Talal Karkouti: Me or one of my cohorts.
Yeah.
I know it's, Yeah.
Well, I can't watch any film without picking apart the sound
design because it's, it's, if it's a good film, they do it so well.
So for the listener ADR is when.
Because, you know, on a film set like a, at a big action set piece or, or,
or any scene really set outdoors, they have hundreds of extras sometimes
scattered around the shot and you can't record all their audio on the day.
In fact, in order to get the clean audio of the main actors, what you do is you
tell all the extras in the background, just the mime, uh, talking don't
actually make any noise because the lead actors, we wanna get their audio clean.
And so what they do is in post production, normally in a studio in soho, they'll
bring in group loop groups, you know, 10, you know, anywhere between
five and 15 actors come into a room.
And then we double the voices for all the people in the background.
Yeah.
And basically any movie in the last 20 years that was set in the
Middle East or TV show, I'm probably somewhere buried in the background.
muttering some stuff and.
Uh, or, or saying, you know, Death to America in the early days.
I did a lot of that shit.
Yeah.
Filth, The American pig dog, blah.
Lots of those noises.
Um, and so that's all done in London, uh, no matter where the film is shot.
Um, but now, yeah, well nowadays I do a lot more than just Arab stuff.
Uh, I do.
Cause pretty soon my, eventually my agent realized that this is
my natural accent and she's like, Oh, you speak English normally.
I'm like, Yeah, okay.
Let's get you in for a silent witness and see how you do
and, you know, stuff like that.
Um,
Alexei Sayle: but, um, Well, it's a little glimpse behind the curtain for you there.
People see how shit gets made.
Yeah.
Talal Karkouti: Yeah, that's my bread and butter voicing
angry Arabs in the background.
And actually, I'm, I'm thinking of starting a new podcast.
Uh, eventually when I get round to it, I wanna do a show, uh, where every episode
I basically dissect a film that has Arabic characters in it, a film or TV show or
book or whatever, and kind of, yeah.
And dissect how we are represented in
Alexei Sayle: that thing.
Always well and fairly.
I think
, Talal Karkouti: there's a brilliant, uh, documentary film,
which is based on his book.
Um, I think his name is Michael Shaheen.
Oh shit.
I wish I could remember his name.
I'll look it up.
But the film is called Real Bad Arabs and Real is Pelt, r e l.
All right.
And it's a history of Arabs represented in Hollywood, Right.
And.
It's a professor of film who made the film and, and he is based on one of
Alexei Sayle: his essays.
Cause in i d suppose it's changed, but you know, in the, in the Indiana
Jones I was in, of course the Adams played by a fucking Welsh guy.
And you and yes and me.
That's true.
Here's me railing against Miss casting of Adams and I'm one of them.
Um, Yeah, that's
Talal Karkouti: true.
You're right.
And I wanna have a guest on each episode and so on the Indiana Jones episode, I
think I would ask you to be my guest and we'll basically, and kind of and dissect
it and then mian for the mommy episode.
Yeah.
Um, and.
And just, I think that would be a really cool,
Alexei Sayle: Interesting, Yeah, it's an interesting idea.
Yeah.
Talal Karkouti: Analysis of, of Hollywood representation, How
history and whole cultures get distorted through the lens of a
Alexei Sayle: fucking Yeah.
Well, of course when we're, yeah, when we were, uh, reps izing kind of
nostalgically about westerns, but I mean, all those westerns are about
legitimizing genocide, aren't they really?
I mean, that's what they're, that's what a lot that's all's all about.
Talal Karkouti: That's all been washed out these days.
They hardly ever have, uh, covered that issue of like, cowboys in Indians like,
Alexei Sayle: kind of thing.
Well, I mean, now, yes, now, or it's done.
They have to acknowledge that.
But I mean, that's what those, that's the, if you, you know, you kind of,
if you think that those films are propaganda, they're partly about, you
know, um, legit, you know, legitimating.
Yes.
There's Friday Clean up the Savage Land stage.
Yeah, yeah.
All that.
Yeah.
A lot of that.
John Wayne.
That's amazing.
Wasn't it actually that they made that a fucking, um, um, lone ranger that
they made with a Hannah and Johnny Depp.
Mm-hmm.
, which wasn't that long ago with Johnny Depp with that beard on his Ed.
Mm-hmm.
playing a, a Native American Tonto.
Toto playing Tonto.
Yeah.
Um, uh, and um, it was extraordinary that got made really, At least it was a Johnny
Talal Karkouti: De is has got like one eighth Cherokee
Alexei Sayle: or something like
Talal Karkouti: that.
Yeah, yeah.
I thought the set pieces in that film were really good, like action set pieces
looked incredible, but the whole idea of the film existing is questionable.
You know,
, Alexei Sayle: I think it was highly questionable, but, uh, you
know, there was, And that's Arn.
HammerFall and prey to some.
Talal Karkouti: He's a cannibal, isn't he?
Me too.
Is he?
Well, yeah, that's
Alexei Sayle: why he's canceled Now.
I have, I really do not know about this.
No, I, No, I just saw that he was, he'd been canceled.
Yeah.
So like he, Oh, well, I don't like that word canceled.
But I mean, he, he, he'd been, you know, he left
Talal Karkouti: some voicemails for a girl.
He was courting a lady.
He was courting, Yeah.
Just, you know, casually talking about how he wants to bring her back to his
house and like, eat her fingers and drink her blood and stuff like that.
Oh, okay.
And then, uh, she leaked the audio.
Yeah.
And then he was blacklisted after that.
All
Alexei Sayle: right.
Mm-hmm.
, Why she dabbled
Talal Karkouti: in cannibalism.
What?
Have you ever dabbled in Cism?
No,
Alexei Sayle: not really.
We we're not, What's in it for the, for the, you know, for
the cannibal lee, as it were?
What's in it for the.
I see what's in it for the eater, but I can't see what's in it for the ET really?
Whoa.
Talal Karkouti: I guess it's a masochistic impulse, isn't it?
Yeah, yeah, Yeah.
I can't really see the benefit of being in that position.
Not really.
Do you think any cows out there are getting kicks out of watching
us eating steaks and stuff?
? Um, I've, I've You've been very busy lately, haven't you?
Alexei Sayle: There's,
Talal Karkouti: have a really nice tweet I read by Miss Delow and she said she was
bowl over by Alexis Sale at the BBC this evening, recording a couple episodes of
his imaginary Sandwich Bar radio show.
Not sure how much it was.
Political commentary will make the final cut, but he's as sharp and funny as ever.
That
Alexei Sayle: was last night.
Uh, when we're recording this mistake, I was in there.
Yeah, I think she, the, the, the, you know, the, the, um, The bbc
Very, I think the Poli all the political content will, will stay in.
We don't generally record it unless it's already been, Well,
Talal Karkouti: we were just discussing before recording this, that they, they
basically, they don't cut shit out after you've recorded, They edit your script.
No,
Alexei Sayle: well, they don't edit the script.
They just say, they just say, you know, we think we'll have a problem with this.
What do you do?
You have a work around or you know mm-hmm.
what you think.
Really?
So they don't tell me to do anything.
But, uh, you know, and there's certain, there's certain ditches I'll,
you know, there's certain matters.
I'll make a stand and there's others where I think, Right.
Again, you know, I can see, um, I can see your point really.
Uh, so, uh, you know, and I think what will go out will be.
Pretty inflammatory, you know, will be we'll set.
Some feathers are jangling or whatever.
Has it
Talal Karkouti: ever been floated the idea, ever been floated to
make Sandwich Bar a TV program?
No,
Alexei Sayle: not really.
No.
I mean it, no.
Uh,
Talal Karkouti: what, what, what if you were to create a TV program today and you
had all ultimate control over what, Yeah.
What would you really like to see
Alexei Sayle: on tele?
I would like to do my, Before I die, I would like to make a big budget kind
of Netflix series set around the world, multiple locations that nobody watch.
But at least, at least I'd admire, you know, which, and there are, there
have been many of those, like a drama that's, I would think be a A com.
Yeah, a comedy drama.
I think I'd, I'd really like to, I'd really like to make to, to kind
of, um, to make, to write and, and um, you know, be executive producer
on a, on a, on a big budget.
Um, uh, one of them things that nobody ever sees, you know,
on Sky or Apple or something.
Apple tv.
Yeah, Apple TV.
Sounds like an Apple TV show.
Yeah, that's what I would really like to do.
Um, you know, I mean, I don't really have much, really anything to do with
television these days, so, but I, I think, um, that's where I would like
to, It's why I'd like to do something I really rather than trust you.
Talal Karkouti: What about a TV series about a backpacker, like on his, on
their gap year or something that goes,
Alexei Sayle: No, what's that got to do with me?
Well, then they'd be traveling.
Oh, here around the world.
I really like them.
Well, no, there's a, there's a sort of series, there's a
type of series isn't there?
Where there's like, there was one called Sensate, which I think
was an early one for Amazon.
And it was like one character was like Japanese and another one drove
like a mini bus in Ghana and, and it was really interesting until
they started getting their fucking superpowers and then just became boring.
Ah.
But when it was just set around the world, it was really fascinating.
I'd love to do something like, The set in the kind of multiple countries.
And it would also appeal to mul if anybody out there is listening from a, you know,
it would also appeal to multiple markets.
Yeah.
Which is a big, which is a big driver for, um, uh, those, those platforms.
It's so
Talal Karkouti: logistical and budgetary nightmare really having film crews and
filmed apartments in different parts of
Alexei Sayle: the world.
It's only, it's only a problem if you don't have the money.
It's, it's solvable.
If you've got
Talal Karkouti: what you watching at the moment,
Alexei Sayle: what you enjoy.
What am I watching at the moment?
Current shows?
I'm watching, uh, a watching House of the Dragon.
Me too.
I was hoping you'd say that.
Okay.
Uh, okay.
I mean, it's not, um, I mean, it's, it, I mean it can, I mean, compared
to, Fucking Lord of the Rings one.
I know Lenny's in Lord of the Ring, so I don't wanna criticize it too heavily.
But he's the best part of the show's best.
Yeah.
It's fucking shocking.
Bad.
It's kind of boring.
It's really awful.
Just a waste of money is staggering.
You know, the cost, you can see the money on the screen bit.
Its
Talal Karkouti: ridiculous.
Yeah.
And then they just let the shots go on too long.
It's like there's, there'll be a 32nd shot of a boat just
slowly creeping down the river.
I'm like, okay.
Like I know, I, I get that you spent 2 million pounds on this shot, but it's
not telling me any story right now.
Can you cut to the next scene please?
Alexei Sayle: Yeah, But it, Which, how should, how, how of the dragon is?
Um, I don't think it's, um, Game of Thrones, but it's, um, it's kind of
watchable, you know, I think it's very, um, it was very dark, wasn't it?
This week's Yes.
Episode directed by Miguel Nik.
Oh.
Whose parents are a friend of my friend os.
Oh,
Talal Karkouti: um, Argentinian refugees, Oscars Z Peta, Zara, Zara, I always get.
Um, but it's just funny that they've both come out at the same time and
they're kind of both fantasy shows and it's just showing how one's
showing you how, how to do it.
And the other one is showing you
Alexei Sayle: Yeah, how not, I mean, the main failure is other people have said
about House of the Dragon is it just cons.
Whereas, um, you know, the Game of Thrones, uh, you
know, had multiple storylines.
There's much more going on across the class divide, you know, in flea bottom and
in, uh, you know, Kings Landing and uh, and uh, you know, at the high and the low.
Whereas this concentrates entirely on the upper classes.
And I don't know whether, and cuz I know they made several pilots, didn't it?
That they jumped at the cost.
Hundreds of millions of dollars.
I dunno whether that's clearly a decision that they made to just concentrate on
the shenanigans of the ruling cap class.
And I dunno whether I, I dunno whether that's a also, that's about the age we
live in where, you know, it's, it's, that's what's considered interesting
is, is that, you know, the, the goings on, in, in, in, in a ruling well,
uh, cast or whether it's, you know, I don't know what the decision was.
I will also just, I, I auditioned a couple of times for.
Game of Thrones, is it?
Oh wow.
I never, I always, you know, there's a thing now with actors where,
you know, you have to self tape.
You have to, because they say, Well, we'd love to have you,
but we have to send this tape.
Talal Karkouti: Self taping is the worst
Alexei Sayle: thing.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
We, we, we won't get into it too much of this, but it is a, it's a major
bad thing that's happened to the acting business in the last 10 years.
Really.
And then they said, they said, Can you just do like self taping?
So I'm in such a bad mood when I do the self tape that the people in LA
look at it and go, Fuck when I ever in.
Yeah.
So, so I just won't do them
Talal Karkouti: anymore.
And I, for some reason, I'm just more relaxed in the room
with people than I am at home.
Cause you get tense and awful and I hate doing Yeah.
And you have to direct yourself anyway.
Alexei Sayle: It's, uh, it's is like a conversation at the
Gratitude Club isn't very leaders.
Talal Karkouti: But a couple points of what you were saying about how
to Dragon Game Game of Thrones had a richer source material because it
was based on books that were thicker.
Then a double decker bus, you know, like they ba So they had
all those stories ready to go.
Yeah.
And that's why I think they had so many storylines Game Throne, but
also complaining that there aren't enough storylines in House Of, Cause
House of Dragon is, is is being written specifically for the TV
show, so they don't have as rich, richer source material, but Right.
Most TV shows are just about one family or one storyline.
So like Yeah, we, we, we've raised the set the bar a bit high.
Yeah.
Um, but my, my main complaint about how Dragons is that, cause I've
really, really, really enjoyed it.
But it is, the central theme of it is about two women who hate each other.
And That's Right.
That's kind of something my girlfriend pointed out, but I had to agree.
Yeah.
Okay, so you've made a show about women, which is great, but Yeah.
Why do they have to hate each other?
Like what's,
Alexei Sayle: um, Good point.
Uh.
Should we go on our last, an analysis of our last podcast?
Now, how do you feel that that went down?
I mean, I, I was hoping that, that, that, um, that would go out talking
about the ideas of Chelan and, uh, Marie Butch King book booking.
And everybody would really, that would be, people would in their millions
would say, Yeah, I agree with that.
And, um, you know, it would start a revolution.
I don't think that quite happened as it.
But, um, you said you've had some nice feedback about that.
We
Talal Karkouti: certainly have.
Um, but.
Don't beat yourself up, Alex, about we haven't started a revolution yet because
as discussed in the episode itself, Yeah.
These ideas need time to become normalized.
And cuz right now most people don't see an alternative to our, Yeah, to
our system, our electoral system, our governmental system, and we have
to make the idea of aism acceptable.
I, I, after that, that episode, I spoke to some friends of mine and
they were still being stubbornly.
Like, it's just not applicable, it's just not realistic.
How would it work?
And it's like, it's only not realistic because we haven't considered it.
Like h how many, you know, how much time have you given to, even considering how
this works, spending time with your peers in community talking about a better way.
Yeah.
And a revolution occurring without a replacement system.
Yes.
Ready to go.
We'll create a fucking power vacuum and we'll end up with a tyrant or
just the same shit all over again.
So, no, maybe
Alexei Sayle: don't.
Another thing I thought this is just slightly off, rather than maybe, rather
than reverse, and you know, with I, I had this idea that we would take
over the monster, over the Noni party.
Maybe we could just Yeah.
Cuz the, the most popular party in Britain as it wears that I didn't vote party.
Isn't it?
There's most people, Yes.
Don't vote or dunno if it's a majority, but there's a lot of
awful, lot of people who don't vote.
Yes.
So maybe we could have a party where you could just vote for like, call
it the protest party and you could just vote for the protest party.
And like, we wouldn't take our seats.
We'd be like Shinhan at Westminster.
We wouldn't take
Talal Karkouti: our, So rather than actually abstaining,
set up a party that's called
Alexei Sayle: abstain the part Yeah.
Or abstain.
Yeah.
And
Talal Karkouti: then that'd be good.
Yeah.
Oh yeah.
We should come up for a, with a, an, is it an, I don't know.
And a crim
Alexei Sayle: for abstain.
Like Yeah.
Always mean.
I can't say my mind's gone blank though.
Yeah.
Always be serving.
Well, no, I don't think you, Well, no, you just say like, the
protest party or independence, you know, So the protest part.
So we put up, we'd put up, um, maybe I'll do the, I'll finance it
in some byelection or something.
I'll finance.
So, uh, I'll stand or we'll put up like a You can stand.
Thanks.
I'll do one.
Yeah.
Well, we need multiple constituencies.
If you, if you are pissed off Yeah.
Vote for the protest party.
Yeah.
Or abs abstain.
Yeah.
And, um, we won't, you know, you'll register, You're discussed
with the electoral system because obviously, you know, so many decent
people have been locked out in the Labor Party now, for example.
So you'll register, you're discussed mm-hmm.
, but like, And it'll make a powerful and be like, you know, the political
commentators will be like, What the you well are, they'll ignore it.
Or they'll be like, Oh, you know, first in, in, in Duncan Smith's
constituency is like in Duncan Smith.
And then second, there's some slimy labor bastard.
But third is, what's this protest to Al Cari, the protest part.
What's this all about?
And we won't, um, we won't take our seats, you know, We'll swear
not all have any policies at all.
Yeah.
Um, and just
Talal Karkouti: focus all our efforts on educating and setting up, you know,
discussion groups and, and educating people on an alternative way of doing.
Alexei Sayle: Of doing.
God no, I don't.
Well, maybe, maybe.
Or maybe we preparing ourselves at control for No, maybe we'll do nothing at all.
The protest party will guarantee that'll do nothing.
Talal Karkouti: Control.
No, we can't do that.
This isn't our Patriot page.
No, we can't do that.
You got, we're building, put it at the building
Alexei Sayle: blocks of No, no solution.
No, you're seeing it.
This is a different thing.
You're seeing it in the wrong way.
Am I?
I think the protest party was just, You were ready.
So then, so you can attract the right as well as left.
If you are, if you are pissed off from a right wing point of view, you can vote.
But don't feel yourself represented by the first, the electoral system.
You can vote for the protest party if you're left wing.
And don't fear up you vote for the protest party.
We guarantee we will have no policies apart from registering your vote.
And I think that's an interesting idea.
We will do nothing.
We will do.
That's will be our slogan.
We will do absolutely
Talal Karkouti: nothing.
Is is the end game here?
The aim is to end up with a government whose mandate is like
5% of the population, and then finally being able to stand up
Alexei Sayle: and say, no, I dunno what, you have no authority here.
This is a separate, this is a separate idea from what we were talking
about before with Ro Chava and Aism.
Ignore that from the moment.
This is just a kind of, um, a d idea.
Yeah.
To insert, to kind of, um, a kind of, uh, diarist kind of situation.
Well, if you wanna
Talal Karkouti: go full dialogue, reality.
Yeah.
Then instead of not showing up to Parliament, we put in our seats.
Like mannequins or like kettles.
Alexei Sayle: Oh, oh yeah.
Crash test.
Dummy or or fridge and stuff like that.
Or wolf.
Yeah.
My cat.
Just
Talal Karkouti: random objects.
Yeah.
In ran in the seats in parliament.
That'd be good.
Yeah.
So everyone around the world watches pqs and they just see, see
like, Oh, there's a coffee grinder
Alexei Sayle: sitting in for coffee grinder.
Yeah.
And yeah.
Who's that?
In the Winchester?
All right.
No, I, I'm excited by this.
All right.
So I've got, you know, maybe we're, obviously it costs, it's only like,
what's the, what's the deposit?
It's like 500 queer or something.
I could afford that.
Talal Karkouti: Cause we've seen everything we've seen, like therea
may standing next to count bin face when they're calling out the results.
But we haven't seen a standing next to a lamp shade.
Alexei Sayle: Um, no.
Or,
Talal Karkouti: or, you know, some, some pope puree.
Alexei Sayle: So this should be specifically be called, it'd be
called the protest party of it.
The, it would all be called abstain.
But see what the listeners think.
So this is a
Talal Karkouti: pointless exercise, but like in, in
Alexei Sayle: intentionally changing the direction of the conversation.
It's, I think it's situ, you know, it, I think it, it would, it would fit in
with the kind situation, um, Yeah, yeah.
History.
Yeah.
At the government showing the true fast of, of, of our yes.
Of our fake democracy.
Talal Karkouti: Until finally no one takes it seriously and begs for an
Alexei Sayle: alternative.
Exactly.
There you go.
All right.
So if anybody's interested, I will, uh, I'll finance them to stand in.
Talal Karkouti: You'll finance them?
Yeah.
Okay.
This is our new asking for a friend, cuz that's kind of fizzled out, to be honest.
The emails.
Yeah.
We're gonna ask for candidates.
We should do this.
Email him alex sell podcast gmail dot see what
Alexei Sayle: com.
See what you feel about this.
Yeah.
Send us, Ill say anybody, anybody.
Event.
It's very, I think it's very important that it's acumenical.
So any, I think that's, I'm the right word.
Um, well, I think it has to mean that it's, um, you know, has to be, have no
con it has to be go from left to right.
Anybody, anybody can and should vote for the protest party.
But what do we
Talal Karkouti: want them to email in maybe like a profile?
Alexei Sayle: Well, just whether they think it's a good idea, you know,
Whether they're prepared to stand.
Yeah.
Whether they're prepared to found their local branch or the protest party.
Uh, I don't know.
It's,
Talal Karkouti: uh, and if you wanna stand in, um, we wanna know
which constituency you wanna stand.
Yeah.
Uh, the name you're gonna use, it doesn't have to be your own name.
Yeah.
Um, and what physical random object is gonna sit in your seat and party?
. Uh, and just a couple, couple policies to go in the
Alexei Sayle: manifesto.
No, no.
No policies.
Now you're not getting, again, there's got no policies at all.
We will have no policies on anything.
Okay.
Yeah.
No policies.
None.
Talal Karkouti: Yeah.
This is the Antimon raving Looney party.
Yeah.
I dunno.
Yeah.
Alexei Sayle: Dunno
Talal Karkouti: the same but different.
Yeah.
Cause they have policies, but their policies are nonsensical.
Right.
Alexei Sayle: We're just by people will have no policies.
Yeah.
We'll have no posts on anything.
Okay.
All right.
That's an send us in your came out.
Yeah.
Your
Talal Karkouti: applications then for that.
Yeah.
To relax Excel Podcast
Alexei Sayle: gmail dot.
Talal Karkouti: Yeah.
Um, I think the Rojava episode got some really great feedback in terms
of listener numbers, very average.
Like so, like we haven't, it's not been a, a dud.
It's the same listenership as most of our other episodes.
All right.
Alright.
Okay.
It's not beaten.
Stuart Lee.
Stuart Lee is the top of the chart at the moment.
That's like ridiculous.
I dunno why he's so popular.
And holi is didn't reach
Alexei Sayle: those.
That's Mountain listened to.
I think it's, yeah.
So, Oh listen, the ship, isn't it really?
Talal Karkouti: Um, Finally, I'm going to see Stuart Lee tonight at The Less Square.
Oh, tonight
Alexei Sayle: is it?
Yeah, it's this new, it's so it's like a kind of work in progress, isn't it?
I guess.
Talal Karkouti: Yeah, Stu Less Square Theater is kind
of his residency, isn't it?
But uh, yeah, the show's called basically.
Yeah.
Looking forward to that.
Um, apparently he's injured.
He's got a bad, he's broken his ankle, so I wish him, Is he?
Yeah, I wish him a quick recovery.
Um, but yes, uh, so listenership on Rojava and on Ugly Bridgeton
were not disappointing.
Okay, good.
Okay.
And do you wanna hear some emails about
Alexei Sayle: Rojava?
That's good.
But so we're, we're we sort of level, we have a level, level of
listenership that doesn't go up.
Doesn't go down,
Talal Karkouti: really?
Yeah, around the 15,000 mark.
So please, actually, things were on the point.
Look, as we've mentioned so many times on this show, yes, Alexia is a big,
famous, rich Hollywood star, but.
This show doesn't have Universal Studios budget.
This is a grassroots show.
We completely rely on the patron funds to make this show happen.
And on your word of mouth, we don't have any marketing budget.
So like, if you like the show, it's really helpful.
I hate doing these call to actions, so I'll make it quick.
Whatever app you use to listen to this show, leave a review on it
and give it a five star rating and write a few lines for a review.
If you're watching on YouTube, leave a comment.
Um, and tell your friends about the show.
Get them to listen to it too.
Get them to leave reviews.
That shit really helps the algorithm.
We don't get featured on the Apple Podcast app.
Like a lot of these, you know, bigger.
Podcast like fucking James, a caster and all that shit.
They are on the front page of the app.
You open the app and they shove that shit down your throat.
You gotta look for the Excel podcast to
Alexei Sayle: listen to it.
Bastard fuck bastards.
We saw
Talal Karkouti: those fuck bastards.
Exactly.
Yeah.
So leave us a review, give us five stars, write a few lines in the review and that.
Really helps us in the algorithm and hopefully gets us on
the front page of the apps.
And in terms of helping fund the show, you know what to do.
If you really wanna help and you have some spare change, go to
the patron patriot.com/alex sale podcast and drop us a dime, man.
Come on.
Partner how he partner mos on down to our patron and, and
throw some pennies our way.
It really, really fucking helps and, uh, yeah,
Alexei Sayle: means we could do better show, better show about myself as well.
And look at Alex.
Talal Karkouti: He's so sad.
I wish you could see his face right now.
Alexei Sayle: Help him out, man.
Um, I'm sad and be happy if you gave me some money.
We should do a charity advert,
Talal Karkouti: but about you not being able to pay me.
Alexei Sayle: Yeah.
Make it all sad.
Yes.
Like whether there's poor Syrian.
Yeah.
Tal Tal is forced to do an unpopular podcast.
Please send money.
He's like Martin Bell
He doesn't know where his next s coming from.
That's
Talal Karkouti: a great idea.
Alexei Sayle: Um, series of, did I say a new series of Sandwich
Bar starts on October 20th?
I think it is A Thursday.
Much excite.
Yeah, it is.
It'll be the last one as we all record trended at number one all day on Twitter.
So let's do that again for the new series.
I think it there is.
I love to get your teeth in too.
It's, uh, God bless radio for, for letting me God bless them.
Yeah.
Talal Karkouti: Fan.
Um, I will put them in my prayers this evening.
Alexei Sayle: Yes.
And put it out there and on the social media.
Um, yes, it's, I really, it's a series, I must say.
I'm really pleased with it.
I mean, it's taken me a long Joe.
I was talking about producer before and he thought I'd been writing it for 18 months.
I actually can't remember.
I mean, it's always with Sandwich Bar, and I remember starting writing it.
The scripts just appear one day.
Um, and I don't where they've come from really, but, uh, you thought,
I've been, actually been writing it for like 18 months or something to write
two hours of, It's amazingly dense.
Brilliant.
Standup comedy is really hard.
Well, especially when you're . Um, and, uh, but these shows
are, each one has a theme.
Each one says something powerfully true.
I think about the world we live in today, and, uh, and it's, and,
and some silly stuff as well.
Uh, there is a Hamilton I'll just leaking.
There is a Hamilton style.
Hiphop musical Shut up in called Jet Fuck Off.
Are you kidding me?
Yeah.
No, no.
Let me tell about, there's two minutes of a Hamilton style , beautifully
produced and written, uh, Hamilton style hip hop musical, which is, I performed
it last night while if that one was, I danced to it last night as well, which
obviously you won't see on the radio.
But, um, I did a beautiful interpreter dance to it
Talal Karkouti: last night.
Oh, so that's in the last episode.
Alexei Sayle: Uh, might be in the first episode.
We don't, we, we don't, we just, that is the main,
Talal Karkouti: So are you a Hamilton fan?
I love, Not really.
No.
Have you seen it?
No.
So how do I like
Alexei Sayle: to do shit right, apparently of it?
Well, cuz I've heard, you know, you've heard some of the songs.
I've heard some of it, yeah.
Okay.
I likely man, Well, Miranda, yeah,
Talal Karkouti: if that, I was, I was obsessed with Hamilton for a while
and I did something called Taton.
I might have mentioned this on the show before.
I did a one man show version of the whole of Hamilton.
I've definitely talked about this on show Taton.
I'll be doing it again.
I was raising money for charity.
It was my common belief.
Alexei Sayle: Yeah.
Cool.
Well this is, it's, it's written, it's written and produced by Tim Soner, just
my music and it's um, it's fantastic.
Oh my God's breathtaking.
Exciting too.
Listen to, So that's in one episode.
Um, Oh, I'm very
Talal Karkouti: proud of you, Lexi.
You've worked so hard.
I've
Alexei Sayle: worked unbelievably.
Talal Karkouti: It's a big part of why we haven't recorded an episode in a while.
Like you can me busy, you're 70 years old, pumping out great shit like this
and people are saying, You're as fun as funnier than you've ever been.
I am, I am.
And congratulations.
And I'm very
Alexei Sayle: proud of you.
Thank you.
I'm proud of myself.
Um, I'm a fucking prodigy.
I'm a fire starter.
Yeah.
Twisted crazy.
Fire starter Firestar.
Um, yeah, no, it's, um, you know, Yeah, no, I'm, I'm an intensely proud of this
series of, you know, it's, I say it's, it's co it's been, the writing process
has been gone on for a long time and I've done, you know, um, multiple drafts
and, um, you know, it takes a long time.
The way that I do it is that I start, you know, I start out with, with
some material that I've gotten some ideas, and then the themes emerge.
Um, gradually really.
But the, um, there's some killer opening's.
Killer opening to what?
At the moment?
This show won, uh,
Talal Karkouti: October 20th, BBC Radio
Alexei Sayle: four.
Radio four, Yeah.
Six 30.
Talal Karkouti: That's awesome, man.
Yeah.
You still got it, baby?
I do.
I still, I dunno what it is, but you've
Alexei Sayle: got it.
Yeah.
For the moment.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
. Talal Karkouti: All right, Alex.
Uh, we keep getting distracted by wonderful and amazing,
uh, diversions, but, um,
Alexei Sayle: let just Well, that's one thing I was gonna say.
You were talking about this.
You, you always, when you watch a movie, talk about the sound design.
Now's your planer.
You know Neil from the younger ones, all he talks about is the wigs
Talal Karkouti: when he watches films.
Alexei Sayle: Yeah.
All he sees is wigs.
Good wigs or bad wigs.
Talal Karkouti: Was Neil pair of wig?
Yeah.
Alexei Sayle: Oh, that was a really good wig.
It was a good week.
Yeah.
Um, but yeah.
So he still, you still, And did you have some good, What's happening with that?
We we're working our way towards getting that, that episode we filmed
with Nigel and Lisa where we watching
Talal Karkouti: we're.
Yeah.
Um, so we.
If you remember, we were asking people to let us know, um, if they were
up for kind of recreating episodes, one and two of the young ones.
And we had some really great, um, responses and people like kind of
willing to do it for us because YouTube wasn't letting us use
the footage from the young ones.
So basically we shot you, Nigel, Lisa shot a, a, a video of you reacting to
the first two episodes of the young ones.
I edited that up into some really great footage and basically
it's a screen and a screen.
So we are watching the young ones while you guys are watching the young
ones, and you are reacting live to what you're seeing on the screen.
And then I tried to upload it to YouTube and then YouTube
said, Nope, copyright flagged.
Don't post this.
You'll be banned.
Fuck off.
You can't do this.
BBC turns out very tight about who can post clips of the young ones.
And I tried even putting up a minuscule shot, like through two seconds of
it and they were like, Nope, sorry.
Banned.
Can't do this.
Copyright, fuck off.
Then I basically did my work.
I tried to get in touch with people at vbc.
Turns out they were making, uh, there's a blueray coming out very soon.
40th anniversary of the, the
Alexei Sayle: anniversary this year.
Yeah.
Talal Karkouti: And, um, we, I ended up somehow getting involved
in that shit and helping them.
Helping them wrangle you, Lisa, Nigel, to come into a studio and
record your own commentaries.
Mm-hmm.
, which is kind of counterintuitive cause that's in direct competition
for the shit we spent ages making.
However, through all these talks and stuff, I am on the precipice of getting
the BBC to give our YouTube channel a free pass on posting young one's footage.
Once that is done, I can start uploading the episodes we've done.
Then we can start doing more of them.
So, I'm so sorry to have teased you with this since probably like June,
Alexei Sayle: May.
Whenever was a long time.
Yeah.
Um, but
Talal Karkouti: we haven't stopped thinking about it.
We haven't stopped working.
Alexei Sayle: Yeah.
Yeah.
We never stop.
Stupid ideas that we talk about and you think, Oh, they've forgotten about that.
Or the, every single one of them, every stupid idea that we've ever
had, we're working on all of them.
Talal Karkouti: Yes, my hands have been tied , but my hands are tied.
I'm tied to a chair, my hands behind my back, but I had a, they didn't see that.
I had a little sliver of glass up my sleeve and I've been slowly, uh,
you know, soaring away at the rope around my wrists and any second.
Now I'm gonna break free from these binds and fucking upload this shit
onto YouTube for your viewing pleasure.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And I want you and your friends, and your parents and your cousins to all watch.
Alexei Sayle: 40th anniversary.
40th anniversary.
Talal Karkouti: Hopefully we can get it out this year in the anniversary.
I think the anniversary is actually November or something, right?
Is it?
I dunno.
Alexei Sayle: There you go.
Well maybe we can.
Yeah, that would be good.
But it is anyway.
Alright, so that's just coming.
So now sorry, I you wrote Java happened to go.
Sorry, I keep diverting.
Oh look.
A squirrel.
Where?
Talal Karkouti: I love squirrels, . Um, okay, here we
Alexei Sayle: go.
I hate this t-shirt by the way that I'm wearing in the little picture.
I look like a fat man
Talal Karkouti: black as meant to be sliming.
Alexei Sayle: Uh, no, this, I just look like a fat old bloke, don't I?
Talal Karkouti: Maybe that's just what you are.
Alexei Sayle: Yeah.
. Sorry.
Oh, harsh.
Talal Karkouti: Um, I think you are just big bone deed.
Alexei Sayle: No, I, Anyway.
Talal Karkouti: You
Alexei Sayle: look fantastic.
Collection.
I do, I am full of, I'm very.
But I could do it losing like, Me too buddy.
Me fucking too.
Anyway, go on.
Anyway, anyway, sorry.
Now, now we have an email
Talal Karkouti: from New Zealand.
Okay.
Alexei Sayle: Have you ever been to New Zealand?
Yes, you have.
I've been to, Yes, I did.
Um, yes, the first time was, uh, I dunno whether to get into this now, but you
know, I've never done a commercial.
It's my proud boast that I've never appeared in the commercial despite
being offered amaz amounts of money in the, I've never, I've never appeared
in the commercial in the uk because I thought, I thought, Oh, well I
might, I, um, well, I have, I've done one commercial in New Zealand.
Cause my friend, my friend Glen, who's dead now, he, he worked at an
advertised agency in New Zealand.
And there used to be a, a bicycle company called Morrison's.
Mm-hmm.
. And so I went out to New Zealand for the first time and did an ad,
which I got a lot of money for.
Hello John.
Got a new Morrison's bicycle and then, um, Uh, the company went bust, I think
cuz of, uh, but I, I felt very bad.
I, you know, cuz people, you know, sometimes I'd pontificate about
not doing commissions with pca.
Well I did, I did one.
Cause it was that thing, you know, where like Lawrence Olier who had
this like really fancy reputation in Britain, but in fact he, he advertised
like, yeah, whiskey in Japan and stuff.
And that's one of the, that's one of the things about you never did
any in Japan or China, like a lot of No, that was the one time I did
it was, um, You've done some voice.
Well, I was on the side of a bus in, In Australia.
Australia.
Yeah.
Yeah, we talked about that, didn't we?
In the live show?
I was on the side of a bus that was a photo campaign for something
or other, but apart from there.
And there was that, Cause I think
Talal Karkouti: Toshiba advert, which used
Alexei Sayle: your Yeah, but that wasn't
Talal Karkouti: me.
That was, they, They just bought the rights to the song and then it was Right.
Alexei Sayle: That's signed by and jury.
The, and jury the rhythm scheme.
But I think it is, it's a, you know, I was a hypocrite, um, to, to, to do it.
But the only, the only, um, the only excuse would be nobody saw it
really, apart from in New Zealand.
Uh, but I think if you appear in an ad, there's an element.
I've, I've done a lot of voiceovers cuz I think that's just work really.
But I think if you appear in ad then you are endorsing the product.
You are selling yourself, really?
Yeah.
But I, um, um, so I did sell myself, but only in New Zealand.
What are we talking about?
And then the next time I went back to New Zealand was for
Glen's funeral, so, Oh shit.
I'm sorry.
Talal Karkouti: Yeah.
Yeah.
But it's, uh, I would love to go to New Zealand.
Did you do all the New Zealand stuff?
Did you do like skydiving and climb mountain?
No, no that, No drinking, uh, white wine and No.
Go to the Hoit Hoon?
Alexei Sayle: No.
It was before all that.
Mm.
I did nothing.
Well,
Talal Karkouti: Haled emails us Oh yeah.
From, from New Zealand.
And he speaks a bit of, I'm guessing, ma, in the email he says, Aroha from AOA to
Alexei Sayle: both of you.
Yes.
That's the mar word for New Zealand.
The land of long white
Talal Karkouti: cloud and AOA sounds like aloha.
Which is the Hawaiian
Alexei Sayle: where they are Polynesians, aren't they?
The mar Are Polynesians
Talal Karkouti: all like distant cousins and stuff?
Alexei Sayle: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I mean, the mar I've only been on the island of New Zealand, I
think for 600 years themselves.
Really?
Oh, I think, I don't know if I'm wrong then I I,
Talal Karkouti: So what you're saying, Lexi, is that Maori's
are colonizers themselves?
Alexei Sayle: Interesting.
Well, yeah, I think that's true.
I think they did colonize No, no judgment.
I'm just, you know.
Talal Karkouti: Um, So hell says this is the first time writing in
because it takes that long for the words to fly over from New Zealand.
Haha.
I'll make this as short as possible.
My daughter, Aya, had an essay to complete for her third year in law in Victoria Uni.
When she explained what it was about, I pointed her to your
latest podcast, R for Rojava.
She's put in a whole section.
Of the essence of the discussion in her essay, uh, which she can share once
it's been submitted if we're interested.
Um, she's also discovered that even though she grew up as a socialist from our
podcast, from your podcast, Alex, sorry, she has discovered that she's a Marxist.
How, how did that One of her lectures lecture her?
One of her lecturers refers to her as the resident Marxist, and
she tells me that I'm also one.
Thank you.
And thank you, uh, love you both ni Mihi Hall.
Um, that was some more Kiwi at the end there.
Um, all So how about, how did she discern from our podcast that she is a Marxist?
Cuz you often say that you used to be a Marxist, but you're not anymore.
Alexei Sayle: No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,
Talal Karkouti: no, no.
You were a communist, but now you're a Marxist.
Excuse
Alexei Sayle: me.
I was a communist.
Yeah.
Just to, Yeah.
So Marxism is the, Is the, the sacred text, really.
And then all those people is, you know, you could like say
the Bible is the sacred text.
And then some people are like, you know, evangelicals that, you know, some people
are, you know, very easygoing Christians, Protestants, some are Catholics, you Yeah.
A multiplicity of sex.
And so SEC's multiplicity of interpretations of the sacred text.
But nevertheless, they all devolve from this, this one book or set of book.
Yes.
And the same is true of, of Marxism, really.
So you can, I am a, I am a, a flavor of Marxism, Marxist.
I, I, and communism is a, is a, is a Marxist sec, but it is one
that I would reject these days.
And is Trot schism or not?
Yes.
Also Marx.
And then
Talal Karkouti: what else you've got
Alexei Sayle: like, Well, I think ev you know, the left Labor Party, somebody like
Jamie Covin would, would have, would, uh, would've read Marx and would, would, um,
Have, have absorbed some of his ideas.
Wouldn't necessarily call him Marxist, I think.
But certainly, I mean, Umber who I quote quite a lot in the, um, went
sandwich bar and, um, I, this sort of the founder of social democracy,
he saw himself as um, an interpreter of the right of Marks for instance.
And that's somebody who I think, you know, Profounded a kind of, uh, you
know, it's very much the basis of a lot of our, um, uh, you know, kind of
parliamentary democracy of the 20th and 21st century that VA himself, I
think was a, was, was, uh, a Marxist still was very influenced by Marks.
But, uh, you have to, I think, um, you have to have read marks
to be a Marxist, to be honest.
Although I suppose a lot of Christians haven't read the Bible, so haha.
Talal Karkouti: Well, yeah.
Imagine she
Alexei Sayle: may have, um, this, Yeah, I think to have to call yourself
a Marxist, you have to have either read the sacred text themselves or you
have had to read kind of commentary on the sacred text, I suppose.
That you would, you would and, and, and, and those
Talal Karkouti: what you would.
So how do you feel that, uh, our podcast has been included in her third year essay?
I'm
Alexei Sayle: very pleased.
I'm thrilled.
I'm very, I'm thrilled.
Yes.
H
Talal Karkouti: please send us the essay when it's available.
Mm-hmm.
Actually, I'd be interested in reading, especially the passage that we are
mentioned in, and I hope we're cited properly, properly and given credit,
Alexei Sayle: of course, it's quite difficult being a Marxist as well,
cuz Marks himself changed his mind.
Yeah.
You know, the young marks and the old marks, you know, Well, like B Walter in,
you know, one of the young marks, loved.
You know, Pro Rock . Then the elder Marks was much more into,
um, rag time jazz, I dunno.
Wrote soundtracks for,
Talal Karkouti: um, Yeah, yeah.
Tuhi, but adverts.
Yep.
Um, oh man.
Oh yeah.
Bunch of females about the bloody labor files from the Al Jism last.
Since the last time we've recorded an episode, so much shit has happened.
Trust became Prime Minister, The Queen passed.
Um, The labor files came out.
Yeah.
Alexei Sayle: You've recorded roundly Ignored by the mainstream.
Isn't that a, an absolute unfuck?
That's unbelievable.
That's, Yeah.
We should, we should maybe we'll edit out all the other shit we
talked about and just, Yeah.
It's actually done by a, it's, um, three episodes, uh, Made, Well
that's four, I think made by a guy called Richard Sanders, who I had
some discussions with about making a program, but it never came to fruition.
But it is absolutely, if it was about some other party or, you know, it's
just explosive, the level of fucking, um, Jiggery Pokery that went on in
the Labor party to sabotage Corbin.
I mean, it's breathtaking if you, It's on, it's online if you wanna watch.
It's all on the YouTube.
Talal Karkouti: It's just all straight up uploaded onto YouTube.
Alexei Sayle: And it's had I'm reely ignored by the fucking guardian
and the fucking, you know, media because it tells a story that they
don't wanna, They were complicit in.
Yeah.
And they don't wanna acknowledge really, which was that, you know, that, that,
that, that, you know, that, that, um, you know, the, the accusations
of antisemitism in the labor more or less entirely, uh, speech and false.
Yeah.
And it was entirely a plot to, uh, you know, stop, uh, an, an
anti colonialist, uh, becoming prime minister of this country.
And, you know, it worked.
Talal Karkouti: And at the same time, there was.
Abhorrent racism against black and brown members in
Alexei Sayle: Labor Party.
Yeah.
Completely ignored by the me, the bbc or being very selective
Talal Karkouti: of who can become members language used against black mps and, and
Alexei Sayle: yeah, there is a fair amount of stuff about this in Alex
says, Imagine you so by starting on October, but funny with it.
Hilarious.
It's not just cuz that's, Imagine the gig is to, it's, there's stuff about
the, or auto awfulness of the right wing, the Labor party, but Don in a hilarious
fashion, which is why I, you know,
Talal Karkouti: So Yes, listener.
We have watched that show.
We're both appalled by its lack of
Alexei Sayle: representation, the why.
Oh, you too.
We could get Richard Sanders on.
I'll, I'll, uh, I'll, uh, I'll get the guy who made it.
I'll get him on next.
Fuck you up.
Yes, please.
That'd be amazing.
Yeah.
All right.
Yeah.
Talal Karkouti: Yeah.
Yes, please.
Make a note of that, please, Alex.
Alexei Sayle: All right.
Alex, make a note of that, please.
Tal . Okay.
Wolf.
Tell Tal to make a note of that.
Alex.
Fuck.
Say
Talal Karkouti: what's his name?
Richard
Alexei Sayle: Sanders.
Richard Sanders.
Yeah.
I'll email him.
Um, okay.
Yeah, let's do that next.
I know we, we, we, we, it's a bit male.
We, we, we understand that there's been all been a bit male, the guest Really?
And I'm sorry about that.
Mm.
Um, I did try and get Maxine Peak, but she's in Laia filming.
I don't tell him all, but as soon as, um, as soon as she gets back, we'll have
Talal Karkouti: a, um, this is an email from Constantine and I
thought this one was interesting.
He's replying to the episode on Rojava, but basically, um, He says, I'm not what
you may consider your core audience.
I'm as right wing as it as can be without getting into populous territory, Uh,
mainly on economics, defense, and small state, but very left wing on immigration,
abortion, gay issues, and culture.
Um, but let me say this, I may not let you run the country on my behalf, but
I love listening to you and would share food with you anytime your voice, your
tone and even some of your ideas have been a source of great calmness and
very educational on so many levels.
Uh, back in, oh, by the way, back in the late seventies, I used to throw
stones at the American Embassy in Athens as a youth member of the kke.
Until one day I realized I was doing it whilst wearing Levi jeans and
smoking Lucky strikes, both smuggled out of the American base shop.
Um, so.
It's, and it kind of touched on what you were saying earlier, how
the left and right are welcome to vote for the protest party.
But yeah, we want this to be a welcome and safe space for
any of your Yeah, and I think
Alexei Sayle: probably, um, I certainly don't subscribe to the
whole bucket of ideas you suppose to have when, uh, you left wing.
And again, actually one of the episodes of Sandwich Bar is about that, about, you
know, with that bit, I mean, I've used the podcast to some extent as a kind of
a, a testing ground, but you know, there's that episode we did where I was gonna.
Corbin's, Minister for Defense.
Yes.
. And, um, so that, that is an episode of, of Sandwich Bar, really, obviously.
Oh wow.
Greatly slimed down and, um, and, and fronted up.
But, um, you know, it's about how I don't, you know, I do, I do love military.
I am lefting, but I love Yeah.
Military, you know, and, uh, it's important not to, I mean, that is
one of the failings of the left, that there is this kind of package of
ideas that you have to have, you know?
Oh, mate.
Yeah.
And it's, it's wrong.
So, yeah.
So Constantine, I, I, uh, salute you, you slip up on
Talal Karkouti: one aspect.
And you are not left wing
Alexei Sayle: anymore.
You're not.
Oh, that's allow a bit.
Yeah.
That's in Sandwich Bar as well.
Yeah, it's um, it is crazy.
So yeah, More emails.
More emails.
Talal Karkouti: Well, thanks Constantine.
And I was glad to hear a right wing person saying they feel
educated by listening to this show.
Yeah.
Um, uh, Rojava, this is from Walt.
Well done.
This is the future for all of us.
Um, he recommends a book called The Dawn of Everything and A New
History of Humanity by David Grayer.
And David Weingrow gives a great, gives a great analysis from an
anthropologist and an archeologist.
Alexei Sayle: Somebody else was talking about this.
Now he's a terrible loss cause he died like last year.
David Grayer,
Talal Karkouti: I think grayer died recently, but would
make an interesting guest.
Alexei Sayle: He says.
Oh, right.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And certainly, I mean, bullshit jobs and stuff.
David Grave is only somebody that I came to in the last couple of years
and, um, I think he is a tragic loss, cuz again, he is a very, he's
a very original thinker I think.
And, um, yeah, Alright.
Maybe that guy then, but he's not a woman.
Talal Karkouti: Yes, we are trying our best to get a woman in the
show, but women just don't like us.
, . I can't get one to speak to me.
Um, this is from Nate.
The last two episodes with Phil Bevin and the Rojava episode were
really great with Con Ross, the Rojava one, um, in the Bevin episode.
Oh, okay.
He's asking about Bevin.
Alex very briefly talked about Trotsky and the crackdown on Crosta.
Mm-hmm.
, He said that was the end of the emancipatory potential
of the Russian Revolution.
Mm.
Something like that.
But better put, um, he'd love to hear more about that.
Yeah.
Thank you.
Nate, Any thoughts on that?
Alexei Sayle: Um, you know, I, I am, as I often say, I am
surfing on the very edges of my.
Knowledge when I talk about these things.
But my understanding is that in, I think it was maybe so maybe two
or three years after revolution.
So in 19 20, 19 21, the, uh, this, the garrison, the sailors of the Soviet
Navy that bring the basic cro dead rose up and demanded they could see
the way the revolution was going.
That the kind of original kind of ideas of freedom and um, uh, tolerance were already
being subsumed by, uh, the, the wicks.
And they, they demanded a, um, a return to the original ideals of the revolution.
And it was TKI as head of the red, head of the red army that led a
detachment across the ice and crushed.
I, Yeah.
Suppressed that uprising.
Really.
That's all I really know I should know more about is, uh, but, uh, maybe so, but,
uh, it seemed to me that that sort of mark my feeling is that that marked the kind
of the death of the, the idealist period of the Soviet revolution and the start
of the dissent into authoritarianism, which, you know, com cumulated to not
accumulate or whatever in, in, in Stalin.
But I might be, I dunno, inform me people, I'm sure there's somebody out there
knows a lot more about this than I do.
Talal Karkouti: Um, and yes, certainly more than I do as well.
I'll, I'll, I'll, When I'm editing I'll listen more
carefully to what you just said.
I was, I was actually reading other emails while you were talking to me.
Sorry, . No, Sure.
I have nothing to add, but I hope that answered your question.
Nate, I'm gonna read you one more question.
Okay.
Right, Yeah.
About the Queen's funeral and accession of King Charles.
Yes.
The third.
Yes, he was, uh, this from Paul.
He was thinking, What are your feelings about the protestors at the events around
the ceremonial PO surrounded surrounding the royals is arresting and charging
protestors, holding blank pieces of paper or expressing anti monarchy sentiments
the beginning of a fascist state?
Or have we already been one since Johnson was Prime Minister?
Thank you, Paul.
Alexei Sayle: Well, several, I, I, I mean, it's, again, there is something,
there is some of this in, um, in sandwich bites about that idea that occasionally
it's usually centered around the royals, although there is, there are,
or the figures occasionally that, where there's a kind of collective madness,
which takes over for a week or two.
Like I talk about the time when Diana died and if you expressed opinions, anti
moist opinions in the week after Diana died, you would've got your head kicked.
Yeah.
And then that, that, that, that, um, that kind of mood goes away and things become.
Things become easier.
There is, nevertheless, I think that pretty Patel and now as Home
Secretary Johnson, the dis iteration of the conservatives are that they are
definitely, um, they're not fascist, but they are, they're getting there
the right to, They're getting there.
Yeah.
The right to protest is being, um, very much, uh, care tailed.
Mm-hmm.
. Uh, and also of course, they, they, they, you know, there's
the, they want to criminalize or forbid councils boycott in Israel.
Uh, you know, the, they wanna make, I think the, the, the, you know, the be
the whole boy divestment sanctions.
Yeah.
An entirely non-violent protest movement.
They wanna make that illegal, I think.
Um, or very difficult to take part in.
Uh, they wanna.
Uh, protest, you know, demonstrations much more difficult.
Yeah.
And it is, um, you know, it's a, it's, and, and, um, That's scary.
Talal Karkouti: Yeah.
We can't let them get away with that shit if they tell you not to
protest, we have to protest more.
Cause that is a fundamental, basic human right.
And it's just, Yeah.
Um, it's, it's fucking terrifying to even think that they
might make that law, because
Alexei Sayle: that's just a sense.
I mean, I do remember like during the minor strike that there was roadblocks.
I can remember getting, you know, doing benefits to the minors and being stopped
at roadblocks by the police and stuff.
So it's not, in a sense, it's not, you know, it's not new, but it's,
it's an ongoing pr you know, the, and I'm, I'm sure Stama would do
absolutely nothing to make that situation easier to reverse any of that.
But yeah, I think we are, we are living in, in, you know, the, the,
um, The, particularly this, this iteration of the Toys is, is, and
the Johnson iteration was, you know, politically extremely right wing and
authoritarian and you know, that's the direction of travel at the moment.
I think
Talal Karkouti: to many laws.
You know, what we need, Let's say we need this country to be
a bit more like the Wild West
. Alexei Sayle: Less laws more freedom.
Yeah.
Did you ever see the series Deadwood?
Did you watch that?
That's one of the greatest TVs.
I didn't, I I've
Talal Karkouti: heard I was one of the greatest.
Really?
Alexei Sayle: Should watch it.
Yeah.
People should watch it.
It's one of the greatest TV series all time with
Talal Karkouti: Burn.
Um,
Alexei Sayle: it's, uh, it's uh, Timothy Han uh, and um, something Burn, Burn.
I can't remember.
It's um, it's Love Joy.
What's his Iam McChain.
Oh, Iam McChain.
Yeah.
Not it's the, it's kind of, if there's any central casual, a lot
of great women's parts as well.
Um, 10 grand for a cards he love Joy.
10 grand.
20 grand for a cards.
He love joy.
Yeah.
Mama mate.
You saying, seems
Talal Karkouti: like we've gone long enough on this
Alexei Sayle: here podcast.
The looks.
I think so.
I hope this is right for people.
Let us know if this is straight, too far outside the norms of
Talal Karkouti: decent broadcasting.
Promise them from the beginning this would be a.
Was it Mozilo?
Pin cattle rope in?
Alexei Sayle: Yeah.
Yeah, Yeah.
And it's, it has turned out to be that way.
So really lid.
I think that's all.
You know, you're out on your run.
You walk in the dog.
Oh,
Talal Karkouti: I've had a grand time.
Alexei Sayle: Yeah.
That's quite a good, It's a good accent.
Got cattle to
Talal Karkouti: 10 too, sir.
So gonna leave you to finish your whiskey on your own, . See you at the next
Alexei Sayle: dawn.
All right, adios partner.
Talal Karkouti: I'll see you soon.
Yeah.
Clumping away.
Back to the rock club.
Alexei Sayle: Sugar.
Sugar, easy, open, careful
along the, the.
Got a Hello John Got a new, I've got a brand new
Talal Karkouti: Morrison, a
Alexei Sayle: brand new 12 speed Morrison is my brand.
My brand new Terrific for baby traffic is terrific for me in traffic.
John.
Got you.
Ah, how John got
got really breezy cause I'm riding in pretty and easy bmw.
That's a nice name.
Lan Rabbit Alpha.
That is a nice name.
Morrison.
I Santa that.
What rhyme, What style?
What magic?
What?
Sheer poetic imagery.
Joe got an give you an her airline pilot or you an her airline pilot
Talal Karkouti: flying on left motion
Alexei Sayle: 12.
Your radiator is boiling.
Your radiator has boiled.
It'll cost fortune to fix it.
It cost fortune.
It
ang.
That's a nice name, but not as nice as Morrison.
Car coffee.
Lot of cheer that be nice.
Thanks.
Don't
Talal Karkouti: you.
You can.
It will
Alexei Sayle: help you get a boom.
Voice is their laughing.
Cars is their laughing cars is their life of buses is their love of buses.
I love music.
Got any di Very low.
I do always, when I hear Barry
got, I've got
all.