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Welcome to this latest deep discovery podcast. My name is
Andrew Aldridge. I'm delighted to be joined by Danny hellsten,
who is in charge of program delivery and investor relations
at EIA in partnership with Edinboro University. So Danny,
thanks very much for joining us. Great to see you too, Andrew. So
can you tell us a bit about EAS role with every within Edinburgh
University and what ei II does effectively? Oh, that's right.
If I could just go back a little bit in time, please. Absolutely.
We always start at the beginning and this and this podcast. Okay,
so this is the EIU is actually came out with a project called
informatics that was originally part of the School of
Informatics at the university.
And we started EIA back in 2008. Okay, point in time that the
first AI event happened on the eighth floor of Appleton tower,
which is a 60s tower block in Denver.
We had 64 attendees on the day. And
we had 16 academic type project stroke, spin out companies, and
all the investors were able to sit around our boardroom table
or be cramped, a big boardroom table.
So that was our sort of small beginnings.
The following year, we moved across the road to what is
called the informatics Forum Building, which is the home of
the School of Informatics. And we did EIA there with 30
companies.
Then we stayed there for a few years before moving off site to
what's called the assembly rooms in Edinburgh, we doubled again
there, we went up to 60 companies, we went to the
conference center. And then we brought it back to the
university in 2018, to cure it all.
And
at that point, we were still about 60 companies.
And we were up to around about 1000 attendees at the event
queue in a whole new round to the investors from all over the
place was so we were drawing companies from not only
Scotland, but across the UK, Europe, North America, Asia, and
even as far as Australia. It is it is very impressive to see
because I think we think we started supporting the IE back
in 2015. I think it was and just to see that growth even since
then has been phenomenal and just shows kind of what's what's
going on. Again, not just in Edinburgh and Scotland, but
across the wider world.
So you have the major event each year. Can you tell us a bit
about the format and kind of the purpose if you like and how it
works?
Yeah, so the the, it keeps evolving, by the way, Andrew?
Academic entire projects to fully fledged businesses. We
look at companies tech companies that are seeing the seeking seed
to series A investment. Yep.
And I should sort of backpedal a little bit. So a few years ago,
Edinburgh city or city region, one of the government City
Region deeds. And so the ambition for Edinburgh is they
will become the data center for Europe. Okay. So within that
data driven initiative,
we kind of aligned ourselves with that. And
the initiative, they will have five, five hubs within the
university region. The first of those hubs is the base center.
And that is where ei evals to about three to four years ago.
fourth birthday this Friday, October the second I have I have
you get a cake.
So that was the first of the hubs, there's going to be five
hubs. Within that. There's one out to Mr. Bush.
Just real quick. And what does each hub look like? What kind of
what would you find inside each hub? Well, some of them some are
still being built as feature. In fact, there was a bit of news
recently where the national robots
theory opened up.
A part of that big chunk of that is that Heriot Watt University.
She's out near the airport.
And the other path, which I believe you saw when he visited
as recently as the ground floor of the base, a hugely impressive
set of Absolutely. Yeah. So we have the national libertarian,
the Edinburgh Futures Institute, which will be across the way
is due to the open next year.
But all the different FinTech very broadly. There we have
the ASHA Institute, which is Life Science,
and stuff.
And then I like that didn't sound very good.
You're playing it down. It's good. No, but I think in terms
of
certainly from a from a, from a south of the border persons as
myself, you know,
I love adore Edinboro. It says a fabulous city. And I love coming
up there. But you can certainly see the investment that's gone
on over the last few years in terms of the universities in
terms of those hubs. Have you seen? Yeah, it's it's an
impressive infrastructure there that you guys must be very proud
to have and have access to. Absolutely, absolutely. It's
phenomenal. And sorry, I shouldn't just mentioned the
fifth one, which is out in the bush,
which is the active
veterinary science offerings out there. So, so very, very varied
kind of tech sectors that you've got there, which, yeah, yeah.
And I would encourage people to look at the data driven
innovation website, they'll explain it much better than I
have.
Yeah, so. So we're trying to encourage a lot more
entrepreneurial activity. I mean, what we've been doing
since we kicked off, but clearly companies that are looking to
grow, needs access to finance, capital. So since we started in
2008, that's part of what we've been doing is connecting.
So that's the main driver of what you do. It's kind of almost
that matchmaking between entrepreneurs and funders. Yeah,
the matchmaking.
Probably not quite as curated as one might hope at the moment.
But a lot of it is
creating the environments where the two halves of the coin can
get together and decide whether they'd like each other enough to
go further. And say, You empowering the connections
rather than actually matchmaking put them together? Exactly.
Yeah. You know, over the years, I'm sure it's the same with deep
roots, you know, you know, some of the investors and some of the
companies that
it doesn't, I think, I think what I know what our guys have
always enjoyed about AI in particular is that, you know,
it's not just an essay about the investi companies looking for
cash. It's a network around that. And it's just helping
people understand why deep bridge or why somebody else in
our market, and it's, it makes people's lives easier to kind of
signpost, people to the right funder, because I think one of
the themes that we've discussed regularly with our investi
companies in yd bridge and kind of making sure that that people
understand that it's not just any cash sometimes for early
stage companies is making sure it's the right cache and the
right people are going to have the right value and the right
kind of expertise to what you're doing. And I think that's the
thing that's been key for us at EIU is really understanding the
Scottish market, the Edinburgh market much better, and making
sure people understand where deep rich fits in and kind of
what our skill sets are. Yeah, smart money is really cool.
Absolutely, yeah. But some companies need passive, passive
money or dumb money is it's it's often known, but some people
don't need ethnicity that the value of that smart money can
bring, but it's just making sure it's the right money for the for
the right people, isn't it?
So, kind of this year, you've got EIU. Again, it's an online
events currently,
you know, in terms of, I guess, that's had its own challenges.
And but also maybe, is that given you a broader reach of
people? Is it easier to get people to an online event from
from all over the UK or from wider fields as well? Well,
definitely from wider fields. And, you know, for a lot of
people that just the timing for it gives them the ability to
tune in to the companies that are going on, and then have for
discussions with those companies that are ready to date. So it
does provide another layer that for us to go to people.
Although although the the Showcase event is going to be in
October this year, for Edinburgh, we did do an event
down in London in April, we did a showcase event at the London
Stock Exchange, which was fantastic to be able to get back
to London again after so long, showcase four of our alumni
companies, and I heard that was very well received. You had a
good turnout for that and a lot of interest. Yeah, it was
excellent. Very grateful to the London Stock Exchange for
allowing us to use that facility.
hoping it's in their interest, because hopefully, some of these
companies will be there that the footsie companies of the future,
potentially, but that's the way it works well. And in fact, one
of the one of the companies that they weren't with us on the day
there, but one of the companies that came out of research
November, many moons ago, was acquired by the London Stock
Exchange,
mostly.
So you've kind of talked about kind of iOS devices, etc. And,
you know, it gets spun out of the informatics department and
what have you. What's kind of your, your key objective now, is
it predominantly around find that funding? Or is it providing
additional support? Or kind of is what is EDI is kind of raison
d'etre, if you like in 2022.
Yeah, but I think we're when we started off, there was very
little activity in terms of sort of entrepreneurial support that
was around that time. So we're right at the beginning of the
ecosystem. And we try to provide entrepreneurship education
programs for a lot of amazing entrepreneurs that just have had
no experience with this whatsoever. And clearly, in the
last decade or so, that's changed quite dramatically. And
there's lots of other programs that come along. So people have
a much better understanding of what may be required. And
there's lots of support mechanisms out there. It was
just not maybe justice for a while.
I guess it should showcase showcasing if I can get my words
out to entrepreneurs, the challenges they're going to
face, you know, it's it's all it's all well, and good having
the good idea, but sometimes that's that's the first battle
that you will have on the boat to, to developing what you've
got.
Yeah, the, I mean, when when we started this all,
clearly, clearly, we had entrepreneurs in Scotland
already. And we did draw on our local ones to help us integrate
all this. But clearly, that pool is getting bigger and bigger.
I think, when we kicked off the culture almost at the time, was
that there was a brain drain out of Scotland, that you would go
off to London or the West Coast.
To develop your careers, we're actually seeing a bit of a
reversal on that as well. Now, some people that have been
elsewhere, and looking to come back or re engage back in
Scotland, so our pool of people that have got the experience,
and or money is getting bigger and bigger.
We want to raise the ambitions of the companies that are taking
part and I think sometimes they just need to devise a bit more
things than the notion of insulin. I think that's
interesting, because I guess, you know, it's that balancing
act, you don't want, you don't want early stage companies to
have kind of ideas beyond where where you might attract funding.
Because yeah, I mean, we see pitches all the time, where you
know, they're going to take on the world within three years.
And you've got to sometimes be more realistic about that the
path to actually achieving what they want to. But I guess,
making them look up and see the wider world is, is equally as
useful for a number of companies. Yeah, I mean,
there's, there's, there's a group up here called Startup
Grind, international group, they took a group of 20 young
companies out to Silicon Valley earlier in 2020, to get its
activities that we used to do many years ago ourselves against
another organization up here called Future expert that has
done similar programs for a number of years as well. And
what we find is that when you show the companies what's going
on in Silicon Valley, in America more broadly,
it does open their eyes, and they get very enthused to say,
well, we shouldn't do that. If we were to do this sort of, I
think Americans just think in bigger terms straight off the
bat, they do that there is definitely a psychological
difference. You know, even even investor level you know, when
you think about EIS and seis? You know, they don't have
schemes like that in the US because they don't need that,
you know, people are naturally drawn to sporting innovation and
entrepreneurs, etc. So there's less need for it, whether I
guess maybe we're a little bit more reserved in the UK, should
we say?
Thing is just different parts, but it's the fact that the
talent here is as good if not better than a lot of the stuff
that gets all the glory out in America. Yeah, and then and not
kind of on that subject. Obviously. You mentioned the
West Coast obviously the West Coast of America, you didn't
mean that there's a brain drain to Ardrossan or somewhere but
but
but you know, kind of, we've done a number of business deals
up in Scotland. Yeah, we find is that there's great
infrastructure in Scotland, but why is Scotland and Edinburgh in
particular guests, a great place to to founder an early stage,
innovative companies such as a tech company or life sciences?
Well, I would say Scotland broadly because there are
excellent places all over Scotland in terms of viewership
and what's going on.
I can talk to you about Edinburgh.
moment which is great.
I think I think having the support of the city region deal
activity is really, really been a shot in the arm for us.
But across gone, and we I mean, we have world class
universities. Yep.
The latest research ancient framework before to be properly.
Excellent. Yeah, sounds good to function last year.
The School of Informatics, up here at Emory University is one
of the top computer science schools in Europe. Yep. So
phenomenal expertise and depth on research across world class
universities, right across Poland, the distances are not
that terrible for us to travel, it's easy to get around. So we
have fantastic universities.
Edinburgh is you know, has a lot of money around it. The angel
networks across Scotland are very sophisticated and their
weight in terms of what goes on across the UK. So access that
early stage money
is very achievable. It is a village fundraiser, everybody.
So it's very easy to put into that it's
all amount of support available.
Yeah, it's interesting. I was speaking somebody from another
region in UK, which probably isn't as isn't as far down the
road as Scotland in particular. And I think the three things
that we kind of discussed is that you need in order to be
create a
entrepreneurial hub, and that kind of innovation is capital,
which you discussed, academia, and the network and support. And
I think that's, that's exactly what it sounds like that you've
got that you do so well up there. Yeah, no, no, it is
a very collaborative sort of nature. And as we mature, this
more and more competition creeps in. But it's still a very
collaborative kind of environment. And there's a lot
of
entrepreneurs that have gone through recently, if I put it
that way that aren't supporting the next generation coming
through as well. Absolutely. And entrepreneurship, mentors, etc,
can be incredibly valuable, particularly for somebody doing
it the first time to, to kind of give him that that sounding
board and that that that that pathway. So you kind of
mentioned the different hubs, you've got kind of around
Edinburgh, etc. What kind of key themes you seeing, or what kind
of kind of areas that you're seeing a lot of interest in at
the moment.
Well, so So, I mean, we are slightly biased, because good is
a big issue. At the base center on AI and data centers. The base
center is actually the University of Edinburgh
innovation hub for AI data science. School of methods over
overload has excellence in AI.
You know, so we kind of spoil what's right on our doorstep.
So there's a heavy, heavy focus on that. But we've seen lots of
interest across areas.
The FinTech and cybersecurity area that's growing, for us is
the edge. So it's going to eventually
transitioning, I would say a little bit at the moment,
there's an awful lot of interest in FinTech. And it's the
cybersecurity angle is getting louder and louder. Yep. So AI
data science is a big growth for us. The other area that we're
trying to to, I think will take off a bit more soon is the space
and satellites sector. In fact, there's a rocket launch in
Sutherland before too long. Okay.
That's both upstream and downstream companies that are
associated with space satellites. And it was when I
came to see you a few weeks ago, as you mentioned, it was
interesting to see the the NASA robotics that's, that's in your
in your building at the moment. So fascinating stuff. Yeah. And
then you the new half of it away that's just opened up at Heriot
Watt University, and it's a phenomenal facility that they've
got out there.
That is just going to grow and grow and grow. And the
entrepreneurial activities that will happen around that.
Enormous, very good.
Can you tell us about some of the organizations that you're
working with whether they be entrepreneurs, partners, or just
the some of the third parties and people that you're working
with?
Within
base, if I keep it interesting, keep it in Charleston?
There's a couple of fairly new programs that started off. The
first one is called Venture builder. And Ben is aimed at
getting more PhDs to set up businesses.
And
I used I used to talk to sort of newly starting PhD students some
years ago,
when I asked them how many of them might have an interest in
entrepreneurial activity and the answer is usually quite low.
Yeah, but I have to say there's been a complete change around in
that there
Um, and so the longer asked calls for cobalt, so we've got
very good numbers coming through. And so that does bode
well for the future. Can you? Can you put your finger on why
that is at all? Or is it a multitude of things? Or is it
just a kind of a slight kind of a social kind of change? I think
there's a social change to I think, a number of years ago,
a lot of PhDs had the ambition to have a life in academia, when
you tell them reality is that this is not going to happen.
Of course, they always think there's going to be someone else
not then. But I do think, you know, culturally, before, if you
if you are an academic, and she wants to do something outside,
and then you stop publishing papers, and that's the new
academic, I think the world has changed now. And that's not no
longer the case. We've had several academics within the
university that front away, done successful spin outs, and then
come back into academia later. And that's, that's a new sort of
model that's coming through. I think, also the fact that
entrepreneurship is much more widely seen in society now. more
accessible, I guess, is that fair, that it's more accessible,
much more, much more. And again, I'm being slightly biased
towards everybody here. And for some just
in abre, has a phenomenal support network for any staff or
students that wants to start a business. I mean, they have a
huge team here, just tasked with doing that and offer a fantastic
support.
For doing that. I'd also I'd also flag up and she in my
collaborative nature. Good that
it's been really interesting to see what's happening over in
Glasgow now.
I think they are getting the wind in their sails over there.
The very interesting team that Strathclyde together, which is
right in the central part of Edinburgh, Glasgow, Glasgow.
A good a good team there. So I think great things are gonna
start building out there. Yeah, you were one of our you speak to
converse. They're one of our investi companies coming up and
CO has got a number of knowledge transfer partnerships with the
University of Strathclyde. And they've been doing that for a
number years and extremely successfully. So it's quite see
that kind of collaboration between academia and commerce.
Yeah, no, no, it's fantastic. And, you know, I think I've said
this to you before we go for it's, it's 35 miles between
Edinburgh and Glasgow, it's next door.
Third, all the links that one day, we should all be trying to
get as many successful companies from
I'm sure if you guys as long as Scotland is doing better than
England, and you'll be very happy. So yeah, it doesn't come
into it.
I don't know whether that's just rugby and football. But anyway.
And so yeah. So kind of going forward, what are your kind of
hopes and objectives, kind of over the next year, kind of two,
three years? Well, so one of one of the other programs, which I
didn't get around to. So we got the venture builder, which is
sort of aimed at PhDs
getting more emphasis on companies where we also within
the base of the AI accelerator, so those are for more mature
companies.
Now, the other hubs that I mentioned there, they're right
at the beginning of their journey, and we were told to
support them through through their activities, or just them
by by crosstalk and people can offer support. We want to do
that. But the talent pool is definitely here. The quality of
life is definitely here. Whether or not
you're fine. Yep. Yeah.
So we've got we've got a lot of ingredients to make some really
good stuff happen here. And the ambition really is that solve
tomorrow's problems today, what would encourage company
companies to form and to address some of these big societal
issues that we need to address them.
And big societal issues generally need collaboration,
they have to be supported by by, they're not going to be solved
by one person individually. And I think that's, that's the key.
And I think that's where organizations such as the IE are
extremely powerful and extremely important, because, you know,
whatever, you guys do it. Yeah, you are, you are key to driving
that network. And that supports worlds kind of in your area.
Well, thank you for saying so. I mean, that is that the network
is should not be underestimated until the network effect is
absolutely vital for what's going on here. And so we're very
keen to build out on networks to be able to help build these
nascent companies grow. It's a scam. No, you're absolutely
right. I think that's hugely important. As companies look for
extra support and extra needs. Sometimes it's not. Companies
don't need the same need or the same support at all stages of
their journey. They need to have different people coming in at
different times to help them on that journey and
say that the wider network, the wider the wider the context, and
the more chance that those companies have got surviving.
Yeah, yeah. Just being ready. No, I mean, I'm I,
I'm always in awe of these, these people that do this.
Because they, you know, they were incredible hours.
An awful lot.
A lot of them don't make it. Yeah, there's a big cost to
that.
But the ones that do, you know, there's lessons to be learned
for everybody. And it's thinking about giving back and giving
them painful with, there's an awful lot that goes on there, do
his division also think, you know, the very nature of what
you're supporting, whether that be on the life sciences side,
whether that be on social changes and technologies to help
social change, etc. They are genuine generally, stuff that is
aiming for the greater good. You know, it's, it is more than just
that there's just the kind of capital growth of an investment
is way beyond that, that that people are looking for. Yeah, I
do think it seems like that's, that's accelerating that as
well. Okay.
So we are in this period of change and
but good change, good change.
So other than helping the companies or tomorrow and and
making societal change, and all those those high hybrid kind of
things, Danny, away from away from the office, kind of, what
do you get up to him on these podcasts, we'd like to kind of
bring the personality people to the fore. So kind of what you do
away from the office? Personnel?
Well, yeah, I'll try my best study.
I try to empathize with startups as much as possible and don't
have much of a life outside of good, that's good.
The, I try and keep fit. So that's one of the things. So I
do try and get a swim or two in each week, I got up the knee and
near the 200k Swim last year. So that's the target for this year.
I think it was, I think it was 180 last year, and now. So this
year is targets to get
close to that. Um, so I had to crank that up a bit earlier
today, Andrew, um, I think I'm on 754, just about 154k. Three
quarters of the year, so you should be ahead of target. So
that's good, good. Yeah, yeah. Are we gonna get more
things? There's always something that gets in your way as
Absolutely.
There's always there's always a challenge. There's always a
hurdle. But yeah.
I have to say, it's so important during the lockdown those start
with not being able to do that, and just swimming and stuff like
that.
But the it's, it's a wonderful thing, being able to get
involved and just switch off. But I guess also you say you
empathize with entrepreneurs. And yeah, we spend no time with
the office. But I guess part of you working with entrepreneurs
is making sure they understand the importance of being able to
switch off and actually recharge their batteries and things
because what you don't want is an entrepreneur burning out. I
guess that's important as well. Yep. And then this year, as part
of the readiness program, that was an area that we did address.
And we basically sort of Chatham House rules, but we just had a
very open discussion about how you do have to resolve yourself.
You have very high highs and very low lows as an
entrepreneur. Absolutely.
How you might deal with that, you a miss have more highs and
lows. That's the That's the challenge. And that's the that's
the game effectively. So last question, the question we ask
all of our guests on the deepest discovery podcast is about the
decreased dinner party. So if you could invite three guests to
join us. No friends or family who don't upset anybody and you
know, dead or alive, who would you be inviting? And briefly
why?
Well, I
when you did this, the one that came straight to mind, I have to
say it was the queen? Yeah, it was fast. It was, I think we're
all sort of a bit
puzzled with our own reactions to some of this. It was quite
moving. very reflective. Yeah. I did queue up to go and see
it
going to attend to three in the morning. That must mean quite
quite, quite a special moment. They've kind of have a personal
moment. Because it's so same as and you know, when you've queued
up for sort of five and a half hours. It's very reflective
time. Yep. But
yeah, so what a lie she's had. She's been there all my life.
Yeah.
So it'd be quite nice to have a chat with her about the people
she's met, you know, that the history she's lived through? I
mean, yeah, back to the war kind of Churchill, you know, 15 prime
ministers, you know, the similar kind of presidency us etc. You
know, she's she's kind of been there one t shirt and you know,
if I know she was always very discreet, but if she was to open
up, then I'm sure she's got some fascinating stories. Yeah, yeah.
So who's next who's next to who's joining the queen?
Well, I had to be David Attenborough. Xand multiple
reasons, there was various various people with David
Attenborough clear clearly,
just to hear, hear from him directly about how much the
world has changed during his lifetime, and the impact that
we're having. And I think you may know that EIA became an
official nominator for the short price. Yes.
Foundation.
It's an area that's definitely come into focus more sharply for
me in the last few years.
And it would just be fascinating to hear his take on it, but also
what he thinks are some of the possible solutions.
Absolutely. And I think that's, yeah, that'd be fascinating. And
is there anybody now to the third person? Is there anybody
born after 1940 that you want to include in this or is this free?
I don't think so. Okay, good. So your third one who's next on the
list? The third one is Hedy Lamarr. Okay. Yeah. Interesting
choice. But, yeah. So just because she's so interesting,
because she's, you know, everybody, not everybody, but a
lot of people will know who you are as an actress from the
Golden Age of Hollywood. Yep.
But the fact that she was a very tech savvy woman
that didn't really get the credit that she should have got
during her lifetime. But all the stuff that she did, I just think
she would be absolutely fascinating to hear the golden
time that she was involved in as well. Yeah. Well, we're all
getting the benefit of some of the stuff that she came up with.
Yeah, good, fascinating conversation. That'd be a very
interesting dinner party. I think that's three fantastic
guests. So thank you for that.
Donate. Look, we're kind of out of time for today. I could speak
to you all day about about Edinburgh the work you guys do,
and you know how we enjoy supporting you. So thank you for
your time. And we look forward to catching up again, in due
course, and yeah, hopefully, you'll come back on the podcast
in future and we'll talk further about kind of the ecosystem in
the area. I hope so. Thanks very much, Andrew. Thanks, Danny.
Thanks, cheers. Thanks for joining us for this deep
discovery podcast. If there's any subjects or topics you'd
like us to discuss in future podcasts, please email us at
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