1 00:00:07,599 --> 00:00:10,369 SEAN DOUGLAS: Hello and welcome to the National Trust Podcast. 2 00:00:10,430 --> 00:00:13,899 I'm Sean Douglas, a senior producer at the National Trust. 3 00:00:13,909 --> 00:00:17,200 And today I'm gonna start things slightly differently by telling 4 00:00:17,209 --> 00:00:17,979 you a story. 5 00:00:18,200 --> 00:00:21,739 So sit back, make yourself comfortable. And let's begin. 6 00:00:28,719 --> 00:00:32,180 GENERIC: Once upon a time in Victorian London, there was a 7 00:00:32,189 --> 00:00:36,009 remarkable young girl that lived part of her life in a world of 8 00:00:36,020 --> 00:00:36,799 her own making. 9 00:00:37,409 --> 00:00:41,299 It was an enchanting land where animals could talk and had 10 00:00:41,310 --> 00:00:43,029 mischievous characters. 11 00:00:43,549 --> 00:00:50,430 There were disobedient rabbits, disrespectful squirrels and a 12 00:00:50,439 --> 00:00:51,930 very determined duck. 13 00:00:56,459 --> 00:01:00,130 But the real world wasn't always as rosy. In her normal life she 14 00:01:00,139 --> 00:01:03,479 had few friends who appreciated her particular ways. 15 00:01:03,970 --> 00:01:06,669 And so when the pressures of growing up as a girl in 16 00:01:06,680 --> 00:01:10,470 Victorian Society got too much, she would retreat into her 17 00:01:10,480 --> 00:01:14,110 secret kingdom where she would be greeted with friendly furry 18 00:01:14,120 --> 00:01:14,989 faces. 19 00:01:14,989 --> 00:01:18,620 Where the unruly residents would gently converse with and poke 20 00:01:18,629 --> 00:01:19,919 fun at her. 21 00:01:19,919 --> 00:01:23,919 As she grew up, she began to sketch her animal friends and 22 00:01:23,930 --> 00:01:25,500 chronicle their adventures. 23 00:01:27,839 --> 00:01:32,419 The girl grew into a woman, she wanted to share her secret world 24 00:01:32,430 --> 00:01:33,220 with others. 25 00:01:33,680 --> 00:01:37,580 Until finally, the stories and characters from her magical 26 00:01:37,589 --> 00:01:41,379 kingdom made their way into bookshops and children's 27 00:01:41,389 --> 00:01:42,610 imaginations everywhere. 28 00:01:43,620 --> 00:01:47,860 The name of this author was Helen, or to give her full name, 29 00:01:48,089 --> 00:01:50,669 Mrs Helen Beatrix Potter. 30 00:01:53,930 --> 00:01:56,610 SEAN DOUGLAS: Beatrix Potter is one of the most successful 31 00:01:56,620 --> 00:01:58,860 children's writers of all time. 32 00:01:58,860 --> 00:02:03,220 In her lifetime she wrote and illustrated 28 books, including 33 00:02:03,230 --> 00:02:08,410 the 23 tales, which have sold more than 250 million copies. 34 00:02:08,729 --> 00:02:11,839 This is the author, most of us know and love, but it's just a 35 00:02:11,850 --> 00:02:15,309 fraction of the story that makes up the life of the remarkable 36 00:02:15,320 --> 00:02:16,470 Beatrix Potter. 37 00:02:18,119 --> 00:02:21,089 Usually the story of Beatrix Potter is told by the National 38 00:02:21,100 --> 00:02:25,210 Trust through Hilltop Farm in the Lake District, a rural haven 39 00:02:25,220 --> 00:02:28,289 where the author felt most at home and where many of her tales 40 00:02:28,300 --> 00:02:30,190 and drawings took life. 41 00:02:30,199 --> 00:02:34,119 But this journey begins a world away in South Kensington, London 42 00:02:35,360 --> 00:02:38,710 to celebrate the 120th anniversary of her first 43 00:02:38,720 --> 00:02:40,830 publication, the Tales of Peter Rabbit. 44 00:02:41,149 --> 00:02:44,380 The National Trust and the Victoria And Albert Museum have 45 00:02:44,389 --> 00:02:46,600 brought together their Collections from the author's 46 00:02:46,610 --> 00:02:49,809 estate in an exhibition called Drawn to Nature. 47 00:02:50,240 --> 00:02:54,369 So here I am at the V&A to uncover the lesser told story of 48 00:02:54,380 --> 00:02:55,440 Beatrix Potter. 49 00:03:00,179 --> 00:03:01,589 So, hi guys. Good to meet you! 50 00:03:01,770 --> 00:03:02,902 Hi Sean, nice to see you! 51 00:03:02,902 --> 00:03:04,449 So you're Helen, you're from the National Trust? 52 00:03:04,460 --> 00:03:04,889 HELEN ANTROBUS: I am, Yeah. 53 00:03:04,990 --> 00:03:06,630 SEAN DOUGLAS: And you're Annemarie, you're from the V&A? 54 00:03:06,630 --> 00:03:06,789 That's right. 55 00:03:07,490 --> 00:03:10,199 Traditionally in the National Trust. The story of Beatrix 56 00:03:10,259 --> 00:03:12,020 Potter is hilltop. 57 00:03:12,320 --> 00:03:14,779 HELEN ANTROBUS: Absolutely. It has become the setting for so 58 00:03:14,789 --> 00:03:16,910 many of her books and her stories. 59 00:03:16,919 --> 00:03:19,889 What we do by bringing these objects out of context is show 60 00:03:19,899 --> 00:03:22,500 their significance throughout her entire life in a brand new 61 00:03:22,509 --> 00:03:24,660 way that people I don't think will expect. 62 00:03:24,820 --> 00:03:26,399 SEAN DOUGLAS: I'm intrigued to see what I'm going to see. So 63 00:03:26,449 --> 00:03:29,850 should we crack on? 64 00:03:29,850 --> 00:03:32,160 ANNEMARIE BILCLOUGH: The exhibition has four rooms. The 65 00:03:32,169 --> 00:03:35,979 first room, town and country is the backdrop, the context for 66 00:03:35,990 --> 00:03:37,199 the rest of the exhibition. 67 00:03:37,630 --> 00:03:40,190 SEAN DOUGLAS: So as I walk in, I'm kind of noticing that 68 00:03:40,199 --> 00:03:42,160 there's a lot of photography. And I would think coming to a 69 00:03:42,169 --> 00:03:44,800 Beatrix Potter exhibition, it would all be about the water 70 00:03:44,809 --> 00:03:45,730 colours? 71 00:03:45,730 --> 00:03:47,559 ANNEMARIE BILCLOUGH: Beatrix's father was an amateur 72 00:03:47,570 --> 00:03:50,389 photographer. We've got images from her from when she was a 73 00:03:50,399 --> 00:03:53,429 baby right up until when Beatrix was in her forties. 74 00:03:54,350 --> 00:03:57,860 SEAN DOUGLAS: The first image we see is this quite grainy image. 75 00:03:57,869 --> 00:03:59,600 ANNEMARIE BILCLOUGH: I really love this image. It's one of my 76 00:03:59,610 --> 00:04:03,559 favorites. It shows a really tiny young Beatrix in an 77 00:04:03,570 --> 00:04:06,050 extremely large drawing room window. 78 00:04:06,059 --> 00:04:09,529 She's surrounded by a mass of ivy. It's really evocative of 79 00:04:09,539 --> 00:04:13,710 this idea of her growing up in a townhouse. But really in her 80 00:04:13,720 --> 00:04:16,200 life, she was drawn to nature and the natural world. 81 00:04:17,769 --> 00:04:22,989 SARAH GRISTWOOD: Beatrix had the childhood of a Victorian young 82 00:04:23,000 --> 00:04:26,859 lady, which really was quite an isolated one. 83 00:04:27,410 --> 00:04:32,260 I'm Sarah Gristwood and I'm the author of the story of Beatrix 84 00:04:32,269 --> 00:04:37,079 Potter. She was home schooled. She really didn't have a huge 85 00:04:37,089 --> 00:04:41,630 amount of company except for her brother. And of course, for her 86 00:04:41,640 --> 00:04:43,359 all important pets. 87 00:04:45,459 --> 00:04:52,489 Beatrix was born in London in 1866 but she later wrote of it 88 00:04:52,500 --> 00:04:55,420 as my unloved birthplace. 89 00:04:55,450 --> 00:04:59,320 She told someone that her brother and she were born in 90 00:04:59,329 --> 00:05:04,359 London. Our roots, our hearts were in the north country. 91 00:05:05,100 --> 00:05:10,179 The salvation for her was those huge long summer holidays the 92 00:05:10,190 --> 00:05:14,799 family spent, first in Scotland and then in the Lake District. 93 00:05:15,459 --> 00:05:17,700 SEAN DOUGLAS: It was during these holidays that Beatrix and 94 00:05:17,709 --> 00:05:21,239 her brother Bertram developed a fascination with the natural 95 00:05:21,250 --> 00:05:25,519 world and began to observe it with the sharpest of young eyes. 96 00:05:27,170 --> 00:05:29,350 HELEN ANTROBUS: So we're going to look at one of the key 97 00:05:29,359 --> 00:05:33,350 objects in this section under the microscope, which is Beatrix 98 00:05:33,359 --> 00:05:35,730 and her brother Bertram's collector's cabinet. 99 00:05:35,839 --> 00:05:38,609 The contents of the drawers are filled with specimens from the 100 00:05:38,619 --> 00:05:41,589 natural world that are hand labelled by Beatrix. 101 00:05:41,760 --> 00:05:45,269 We only actually have one drawer on display in the exhibition. 102 00:05:45,429 --> 00:05:48,290 It's filled with rocks and fossils and geological 103 00:05:48,299 --> 00:05:49,079 specimens. 104 00:05:49,089 --> 00:05:52,519 Now, the cabinet normally lives at the Beatrix Potter Gallery 105 00:05:52,529 --> 00:05:55,109 which the National Trust runs and cares for. 106 00:05:55,429 --> 00:05:58,230 SEAN DOUGLAS: To understand how Beatrix's travels between the 107 00:05:58,239 --> 00:06:01,869 city and the countryside helped shape her young mind, the next 108 00:06:01,880 --> 00:06:05,200 part of our story transports us to the fresh air and rolling 109 00:06:05,209 --> 00:06:06,839 hills of the Lake District. 110 00:06:08,989 --> 00:06:13,750 So I've made my way 250 miles northwest of the V&A to the 111 00:06:13,760 --> 00:06:15,730 picturesque village of Hawkshead. 112 00:06:15,989 --> 00:06:19,329 As you enter this village, you're hit by the abundance of 113 00:06:19,339 --> 00:06:23,079 stone and slate which pretty much all the buildings, cottages 114 00:06:23,089 --> 00:06:25,250 and churches are made out of. 115 00:06:25,250 --> 00:06:29,109 And nestled within all of that is the Beatrix Potter Gallery, 116 00:06:29,119 --> 00:06:31,799 which is where I'm heading to now to meet Laura White, the 117 00:06:31,809 --> 00:06:33,570 Collections and House Officer. 118 00:06:34,290 --> 00:06:35,059 And here we are. 119 00:06:37,570 --> 00:06:38,255 LAURA WHITE: Hi Sean, how you doing? 120 00:06:38,255 --> 00:06:39,399 SEAN DOUGLAS: Hi Laura, Thank you. 121 00:06:42,529 --> 00:06:46,320 This place is such a contrast to the V&A. You know, you've got 122 00:06:46,329 --> 00:06:50,790 these perfectly designed sets and here, It's like something 123 00:06:50,799 --> 00:06:52,350 out of Dickensian novel or something. 124 00:06:52,359 --> 00:06:54,660 LAURA WHITE: Exactly, yeah, It's got loads of atmosphere and with 125 00:06:54,670 --> 00:06:58,230 the creaky floorboards and wonky walls, it's a totally different 126 00:06:58,239 --> 00:06:59,149 feel to the V&A. 127 00:06:59,160 --> 00:07:01,010 SEAN DOUGLAS: Why I really wanted to come here was to see 128 00:07:01,019 --> 00:07:03,390 some of the other drawers from the display cabinet that I'd 129 00:07:03,399 --> 00:07:05,519 seen at the V&A. Can we go and have a look at some of those? 130 00:07:05,720 --> 00:07:06,660 LAURA WHITE: Of course, let's do that. 131 00:07:08,369 --> 00:07:12,480 So this is one of the drawers containing butterflies and moths 132 00:07:12,489 --> 00:07:17,119 caught by Beatrix Potter, all different species. 133 00:07:17,130 --> 00:07:19,820 Some of them probably don't exist anymore. But then there's 134 00:07:19,829 --> 00:07:22,790 some more common ones like Red Admirals and Tortoiseshell and 135 00:07:22,799 --> 00:07:24,029 Painted Ladies. 136 00:07:24,040 --> 00:07:26,609 SEAN DOUGLAS: They are beautiful but it is a little bit macabre. 137 00:07:26,619 --> 00:07:29,730 I mean, what I'm looking at is over 50 butterflies in the 138 00:07:29,739 --> 00:07:31,579 drawer with pins stuck through them. 139 00:07:31,750 --> 00:07:33,730 LAURA WHITE: We wouldn't do it now, we much prefer to see 140 00:07:33,739 --> 00:07:38,029 butterflies flying around, but it was quite normal to do then. 141 00:07:38,029 --> 00:07:40,890 It would have been a way of keeping themselves occupied when 142 00:07:40,899 --> 00:07:45,839 they were on holiday. 143 00:07:45,839 --> 00:07:48,380 SEAN DOUGLAS: For Beatrix and Bertram collecting these 144 00:07:48,390 --> 00:07:51,730 specimens was a way of feeding their curiosity as well as 145 00:07:51,739 --> 00:07:54,929 giving them a window on the world outside the confines of 146 00:07:54,940 --> 00:07:56,859 their strict Victorian upbringing. 147 00:07:58,170 --> 00:08:01,059 Back to Beatrix Potter's biographer, Sarah Gristwood. 148 00:08:01,920 --> 00:08:06,140 SARAH GRISTWOOD: Beatrix's family home, on the one hand, it 149 00:08:06,149 --> 00:08:10,709 was this place of absolute Victorian respectability. 150 00:08:11,190 --> 00:08:15,750 On the other hand, she had this extraordinary range of pets 151 00:08:15,760 --> 00:08:16,230 there. 152 00:08:16,820 --> 00:08:21,609 Not just the famous rabbits but things like salamanders, 153 00:08:21,619 --> 00:08:22,950 hedgehogs. 154 00:08:22,959 --> 00:08:27,899 I mean, she and her brothers had bats, birds of all sorts. The 155 00:08:27,910 --> 00:08:31,959 place must have been alive with grunts and squeaks. 156 00:08:32,440 --> 00:08:35,380 SEAN DOUGLAS: They adored their pets so much. They took them 157 00:08:35,450 --> 00:08:36,359 everywhere. 158 00:08:37,258 --> 00:08:41,229 SARAH GRISTWOOD: There are amazing pictures of Beatrix 159 00:08:41,239 --> 00:08:46,018 boarding a train in London with a Rabbit on the lead. 160 00:08:46,028 --> 00:08:50,929 I mean, she and her brother took their pets on holiday with them, 161 00:08:51,208 --> 00:08:55,489 but again, we're not just talking, you know, dogs or a cat 162 00:08:55,499 --> 00:08:57,018 in a cage or something. 163 00:08:57,068 --> 00:09:00,689 We are talking this absolute menagerie. 164 00:09:05,289 --> 00:09:10,750 She absolutely saw animals and other aspects of nature as 165 00:09:10,760 --> 00:09:13,250 something to study as well. 166 00:09:13,440 --> 00:09:16,640 I mean, she'd be doing extraordinary things like 167 00:09:16,650 --> 00:09:19,830 bringing a bat into the house, you know, smuggled in, in a 168 00:09:19,840 --> 00:09:20,380 paper bag. 169 00:09:20,770 --> 00:09:24,429 She once tried to bring a specimen of dry rot into the 170 00:09:24,440 --> 00:09:27,859 House, but understandably, her parents weren't too keen on 171 00:09:27,869 --> 00:09:28,359 that. 172 00:09:28,619 --> 00:09:30,520 SEAN DOUGLAS: It was through the hours spent drawing and 173 00:09:30,530 --> 00:09:34,429 cataloguing her specimens that her skills as an artist really 174 00:09:34,440 --> 00:09:35,599 started to shine. 175 00:09:37,010 --> 00:09:41,510 SARAH GRISTWOOD: I'm looking now at a page from a sketchbook she 176 00:09:41,520 --> 00:09:44,719 made when she was only eight years old. 177 00:09:44,969 --> 00:09:51,150 It's a page of careful drawings of insects, caterpillars and the 178 00:09:51,159 --> 00:09:53,409 plants on which they feed. 179 00:09:53,409 --> 00:09:57,590 Beautifully detailed, It's impossible to realize that it's 180 00:09:57,599 --> 00:10:00,140 a young child doing that. 181 00:10:00,919 --> 00:10:03,219 SEAN DOUGLAS: As her fascination with the natural world grew. 182 00:10:03,229 --> 00:10:07,369 She'd even dissect her specimens to gain a better understanding 183 00:10:07,380 --> 00:10:08,530 of their anatomy. 184 00:10:09,229 --> 00:10:12,809 SARAH GRISTWOOD: She was quite unsentimental when they died. 185 00:10:12,859 --> 00:10:17,549 She and her brother would even boil the skeletons down to study 186 00:10:17,739 --> 00:10:18,719 and to draw. 187 00:10:19,190 --> 00:10:21,530 SEAN DOUGLAS: Some of these are on display in the Beatrix Potter 188 00:10:21,539 --> 00:10:25,869 exhibition back at the V&A including one very surprising 189 00:10:25,880 --> 00:10:29,369 specimen, as curator Helen Antrobus reveals. 190 00:10:29,380 --> 00:10:31,719 HELEN ANTROBUS: First and foremost, they were scientists 191 00:10:31,729 --> 00:10:34,770 and even their favourite pets didn't escape that scientific 192 00:10:34,780 --> 00:10:35,250 treatment. 193 00:10:35,950 --> 00:10:39,030 Now, Benjamin Bouncer, which was Beatrix's pet Rabbit who would 194 00:10:39,039 --> 00:10:41,159 become the inspiration for Benjamin Bunny. 195 00:10:41,159 --> 00:10:44,590 When he died, of natural causes, I feel I should stress! 196 00:10:44,590 --> 00:10:48,460 Beatrix, we believe skinned Benjamin so she could keep his 197 00:10:48,469 --> 00:10:49,059 pelt. 198 00:10:49,479 --> 00:10:52,659 He had been her model for so long that I think she wanted to 199 00:10:52,669 --> 00:10:56,340 keep it to ensure consistency and detail in her work. 200 00:10:56,390 --> 00:10:59,090 SEAN DOUGLAS: Back to V&A curator, Annemarie Bilclough. 201 00:10:59,650 --> 00:11:01,979 ANNEMARIE BILCLOUGH: Probably when she was a teenager, Beatrix 202 00:11:01,989 --> 00:11:05,340 started to take drawings of what she saw through microscopes. 203 00:11:05,390 --> 00:11:08,950 For example, here is a beetle shown at different levels of 204 00:11:08,960 --> 00:11:13,799 magnification. Later on, she also produced lithographs for a 205 00:11:13,809 --> 00:11:16,270 teacher who gave lectures in natural history. 206 00:11:16,280 --> 00:11:19,289 So she's starting to move into the world of scientific 207 00:11:19,299 --> 00:11:19,950 illustrator. 208 00:11:19,950 --> 00:11:24,169 Around the same time in the mid 1880s, she became interested in 209 00:11:24,179 --> 00:11:26,330 mycology, which is the study of fungi. 210 00:11:27,669 --> 00:11:30,330 DR ISABELLE CHARMANTIER: There was an enthusiasm for mycology 211 00:11:30,419 --> 00:11:35,109 at the time and certainly in our archives, we do have a lot of 212 00:11:35,119 --> 00:11:39,390 books and manuscripts and also photographs that relate to this 213 00:11:39,400 --> 00:11:40,450 enthusiasm. 214 00:11:40,739 --> 00:11:43,840 My name is Isabelle Charmantier. I'm the head of Collections at 215 00:11:43,849 --> 00:11:45,250 the Linnean Society Of London. 216 00:11:46,090 --> 00:11:51,010 The Linnean Society is a learned society founded in 1788 for the 217 00:11:51,020 --> 00:11:53,070 promotion of natural history. 218 00:11:53,330 --> 00:11:57,210 So this is a place where scientists send in their papers 219 00:11:57,219 --> 00:11:58,630 to be read at meetings. 220 00:11:58,880 --> 00:12:02,869 Probably the most famous paper was the one submitted in haste 221 00:12:02,880 --> 00:12:07,729 and read on the first of July 1858 by Charles Darwin and 222 00:12:07,739 --> 00:12:10,640 Alfred Russell Wallace. And that paper was on the theory of 223 00:12:10,650 --> 00:12:12,179 evolution by natural selection. 224 00:12:14,169 --> 00:12:16,070 SEAN DOUGLAS: During her twenties, Potter pursued her 225 00:12:16,080 --> 00:12:19,429 fascination with fungi and became a dedicated student to 226 00:12:19,440 --> 00:12:20,950 the science of mycology. 227 00:12:21,250 --> 00:12:24,599 She would spend hours analyzing specimens she'd collect and 228 00:12:24,609 --> 00:12:28,630 would go on to produce over 300 detailed botanical drawings. 229 00:12:30,679 --> 00:12:32,349 DR ISABELLE CHARMANTIER: Botanical art still has a 230 00:12:32,359 --> 00:12:35,890 function at the end of the 19th century despite the apparition 231 00:12:35,900 --> 00:12:36,830 of photography. 232 00:12:37,150 --> 00:12:40,260 Even today, if you pick up a copy of the Curtis Botanical 233 00:12:40,270 --> 00:12:43,520 magazine which publishes new species of plants, there'll be 234 00:12:43,530 --> 00:12:44,219 photographs. 235 00:12:44,229 --> 00:12:47,260 But in order to get into the detail of the characters, they 236 00:12:47,270 --> 00:12:49,900 will use black and white drawings of the plant. 237 00:12:50,200 --> 00:12:54,010 She really was a gifted illustrator who closely observed 238 00:12:54,169 --> 00:12:57,815 and faithfully recorded what she saw and as any scientist wants 239 00:12:57,825 --> 00:13:00,325 to do, she wanted to share those results. 240 00:13:00,445 --> 00:13:01,645 SEAN DOUGLAS: Sarah Gristwood again. 241 00:13:02,284 --> 00:13:05,354 SARAH GRISTWOOD: She actually developed a theory on how they 242 00:13:05,364 --> 00:13:08,195 reproduced by means of spores. 243 00:13:08,505 --> 00:13:12,755 And she wrote a paper that was delivered to the very 244 00:13:12,765 --> 00:13:16,429 prestigious Linnean Society. 245 00:13:16,429 --> 00:13:22,469 Only, of course, because Beatrix was a woman, she couldn't read 246 00:13:22,479 --> 00:13:27,423 it herself. It had to be read for her by the director of Kew 247 00:13:27,423 --> 00:13:27,469 Gardens. 248 00:13:29,710 --> 00:13:31,280 GENERIC: Order Order. 249 00:13:31,380 --> 00:13:32,169 Order. 250 00:13:33,130 --> 00:13:35,270 DR ISABELLE CHARMANTIER: Her paper was quote "read and 251 00:13:35,280 --> 00:13:38,619 discussed on the 1st of April 1897." 252 00:13:38,619 --> 00:13:42,950 But then it was withdrawn by Potter on 8th of April. And it 253 00:13:42,960 --> 00:13:44,270 was never resubmitted. 254 00:13:44,630 --> 00:13:47,580 And that's because some additional work was required on 255 00:13:47,590 --> 00:13:49,780 the manuscript before it could appear in print. 256 00:13:49,909 --> 00:13:52,429 But it seems that the work was never carried out. 257 00:13:52,849 --> 00:13:57,919 It may be that she was put off by the male society that she was 258 00:13:57,929 --> 00:14:00,919 having to deal with and possibly the frustration at the 259 00:14:00,929 --> 00:14:04,549 scientific aspect of her research that was just so hard 260 00:14:04,559 --> 00:14:06,270 to come through because she was a woman. 261 00:14:06,479 --> 00:14:11,659 SARAH GRISTWOOD: Many decades later in the 1990s, the society 262 00:14:11,669 --> 00:14:15,070 acknowledged that she'd been treated scurvily. 263 00:14:15,909 --> 00:14:18,450 SEAN DOUGLAS: Potter was left frustrated by the barriers 264 00:14:18,460 --> 00:14:21,250 imposed on women in the world of academia. 265 00:14:21,440 --> 00:14:24,789 But despite this setback, she decided to turn her passion for 266 00:14:24,799 --> 00:14:28,210 nature and her flair for illustration to a different 267 00:14:28,219 --> 00:14:28,710 direction completely. 268 00:14:28,710 --> 00:14:33,739 Potter's eventual success as an author would be long and fought 269 00:14:33,750 --> 00:14:34,890 with obstacles. 270 00:14:35,210 --> 00:14:38,349 But the inspiration for her very first publication came about in 271 00:14:38,359 --> 00:14:39,979 the most unexpected way. 272 00:14:40,200 --> 00:14:43,369 It began with a poorly boy in need of entertainment and the 273 00:14:43,380 --> 00:14:47,070 seeds of a story idea about a very naughty bunny who never 274 00:14:47,080 --> 00:14:49,570 listened to his mother, Annemarie Bilclough again. 275 00:14:51,090 --> 00:14:53,150 ANNEMARIE BILCLOUGH: Her first picture book, a Tale of Peter 276 00:14:53,159 --> 00:14:56,320 Rabbit actually began as a picture letter that she made for 277 00:14:56,330 --> 00:14:58,789 the son of her former governess Noel Moore. 278 00:14:59,109 --> 00:15:02,809 We're shown two pages of this letter that is written in pen. 279 00:15:03,119 --> 00:15:07,500 And within the letter, you see the outline sketches of rabbits. 280 00:15:07,900 --> 00:15:10,969 What she's doing here, she's just writing the text of the 281 00:15:10,979 --> 00:15:15,809 start of the letter which begins, "My dear Noel, I don't 282 00:15:15,820 --> 00:15:19,809 know what to write about so I shall tell you a story of four 283 00:15:19,820 --> 00:15:24,460 little rabbits whose names were Flopsy, Mopsy, Cotton Tail and 284 00:15:24,469 --> 00:15:25,830 Peter." 285 00:15:25,830 --> 00:15:28,130 SEAN DOUGLAS: The little boy Noel wasn't the only child of 286 00:15:28,140 --> 00:15:29,729 the governess to get a story. 287 00:15:29,909 --> 00:15:33,530 Others included one to Eric about a frog who loved fishing 288 00:15:33,659 --> 00:15:36,969 and another to Nora about a very cheeky squirrel. 289 00:15:37,419 --> 00:15:41,010 Sometime after Potter started to share her stories with children, 290 00:15:41,210 --> 00:15:44,989 she had the idea that perhaps her colourful characters could 291 00:15:45,000 --> 00:15:47,169 be enjoyed by a wider audience. 292 00:15:48,789 --> 00:15:51,289 ANNEMARIE BILCLOUGH: She began with pencil sketches and these 293 00:15:51,299 --> 00:15:52,770 are in the V&A collection. 294 00:15:53,150 --> 00:15:57,669 So you can see the really quite familiar sketch of Mrs Rabbit 295 00:15:57,710 --> 00:16:01,609 and the three bunnies and Peter he's facing away from her and 296 00:16:01,619 --> 00:16:03,679 about to go off somewhere. 297 00:16:03,679 --> 00:16:06,929 And those pen and ink sketches that she created were inserted 298 00:16:06,940 --> 00:16:10,820 into an exercise book and on each page of the exercise book, 299 00:16:10,830 --> 00:16:12,409 she wrote out the stories. 300 00:16:13,020 --> 00:16:15,330 CHRISTIAAN JONKERS: She'd sold a few drawings to greetings card 301 00:16:15,340 --> 00:16:17,510 manufacturers in the 1890s. 302 00:16:17,520 --> 00:16:20,820 So when she took up the notion of publishing these illustrated 303 00:16:20,830 --> 00:16:24,650 stories, she had quite a firmly preconceived idea of what they 304 00:16:24,659 --> 00:16:26,830 should look like and how she was going to deal with the 305 00:16:26,840 --> 00:16:27,640 publishers. 306 00:16:28,099 --> 00:16:30,099 My name is Christiaan Jonkers. 307 00:16:30,330 --> 00:16:34,190 I own Jonker's Rare Books in Henley On Thames. And we 308 00:16:34,200 --> 00:16:37,280 specialize in rare books and manuscripts, particularly 309 00:16:37,289 --> 00:16:38,159 Beatrix Potter. 310 00:16:39,000 --> 00:16:43,260 She had written the picture letters for children and she 311 00:16:43,270 --> 00:16:46,400 wanted the books to be read by children in a small format that 312 00:16:46,409 --> 00:16:48,869 would appeal to children and could easily be handled by them. 313 00:16:49,380 --> 00:16:52,299 She also wanted an illustration opposite every page. 314 00:16:52,349 --> 00:16:56,570 This was expensive to produce. So publishers who were 315 00:16:56,580 --> 00:17:00,830 interested proposed making a grander larger format book that 316 00:17:00,840 --> 00:17:02,460 they published at six shillings. 317 00:17:02,739 --> 00:17:05,819 But Potter wanted the book to be inexpensive and accessible to as 318 00:17:05,829 --> 00:17:07,130 many children as possible. 319 00:17:07,270 --> 00:17:10,300 So eventually discussions between publishers and Potter 320 00:17:10,310 --> 00:17:10,890 broke down. 321 00:17:11,670 --> 00:17:15,150 Potter being a headstrong young lady, took matters into her own 322 00:17:15,160 --> 00:17:17,489 hands at that point and published the book herself. When 323 00:17:17,500 --> 00:17:21,689 she found a printer, they issued 250 copies of Peter Rabbit. 324 00:17:25,160 --> 00:17:27,569 SEAN DOUGLAS: The Tale of Peter Rabbit immediately captured 325 00:17:27,579 --> 00:17:31,300 young reader's imaginations. It proved so popular that Potter 326 00:17:31,310 --> 00:17:33,780 had another 200 copies printed. 327 00:17:34,300 --> 00:17:37,199 At this point, the publishing world could no longer ignore the 328 00:17:37,209 --> 00:17:38,040 little book. 329 00:17:38,040 --> 00:17:41,530 Publisher Frederick Warne And Co. who'd originally rejected 330 00:17:41,540 --> 00:17:44,910 Potter's manuscript, agreed to take on the book and print an 331 00:17:44,920 --> 00:17:46,790 initial 8000 copies. 332 00:17:47,390 --> 00:17:50,300 The Tale Of Peter Rabbit would go on to become one of the most 333 00:17:50,310 --> 00:17:52,609 successful children's books of all time. 334 00:17:53,040 --> 00:17:58,359 And at the age of 36 Potter had become a successful author. Back 335 00:17:58,369 --> 00:18:00,540 to biographer Sarah Gristwood. 336 00:18:00,810 --> 00:18:03,459 SARAH GRISTWOOD: It's amazing how quickly things happened. 337 00:18:03,469 --> 00:18:11,660 1901 private printing 1902, it's published and by 1903, there 338 00:18:11,670 --> 00:18:16,619 were already Peter Rabbit dolls being sold all over the place. 339 00:18:16,890 --> 00:18:20,890 So clearly, Beatrix instantly hit a nerve. 340 00:18:21,979 --> 00:18:24,369 CHRISTIAAN JONKERS: She was able to produce these beautifully 341 00:18:24,380 --> 00:18:28,599 produced books and still sell them at a shilling each. 342 00:18:29,280 --> 00:18:34,180 It helped move the market away from the late Victorian period 343 00:18:34,189 --> 00:18:38,560 where books for children were really only for wealthy families 344 00:18:38,579 --> 00:18:43,099 to a situation where these books were if not available to all 345 00:18:43,109 --> 00:18:45,599 were available to a much much wider audience. 346 00:18:46,510 --> 00:18:50,550 The commercial success of Peter Rabbit and then the subsequent 347 00:18:50,560 --> 00:18:55,500 books led to Potter being one of the first really successful 348 00:18:55,510 --> 00:18:57,630 series authors for children. 349 00:18:58,050 --> 00:19:01,510 Indeed, I think one could stretch a point and say that 350 00:19:01,520 --> 00:19:04,449 without Beatrix Potter, we might not have Harry Potter. 351 00:19:06,329 --> 00:19:09,260 SEAN DOUGLAS: Beatrix had found wealth recognition and 352 00:19:09,270 --> 00:19:12,709 importantly an outlet for her love of the natural world. 353 00:19:12,729 --> 00:19:15,630 She'd become an overnight success with the Tale of Peter 354 00:19:15,640 --> 00:19:18,819 Rabbit and was creating many more, including the Tale of Two 355 00:19:18,829 --> 00:19:21,630 Bad Mice and the Tales of Miss Tiggy Winkle. 356 00:19:21,900 --> 00:19:24,569 But despite all her achievements, there was still 357 00:19:24,579 --> 00:19:25,430 something missing. 358 00:19:25,719 --> 00:19:29,069 She was wary of living in the city and yearned to find a way 359 00:19:29,079 --> 00:19:32,109 to escape to the countryside while she felt she belonged. 360 00:19:33,060 --> 00:19:35,859 Using the spoils from her publishing career. She bought 361 00:19:35,869 --> 00:19:40,719 Hilltop Farm in Ambleside in the Lake District, but she couldn't 362 00:19:40,729 --> 00:19:44,079 move there permanently just yet as Laura White from the Potter 363 00:19:44,089 --> 00:19:45,430 Gallery explains. 364 00:19:45,670 --> 00:19:48,920 LAURA WHITE: When she bought it in 1905, she was unmarried and 365 00:19:48,930 --> 00:19:51,505 although she was in her late thirties, it wasn't the done 366 00:19:51,505 --> 00:19:54,155 thing then to live away from your parents. 367 00:19:54,165 --> 00:19:57,864 So she used hilltop as a holiday home. It was an escape from her 368 00:19:57,875 --> 00:19:58,765 London life. 369 00:19:59,155 --> 00:20:02,185 She was really inspired by it. She went on a huge creative 370 00:20:02,194 --> 00:20:05,454 flurry nearly every book that she subsequently wrote had 371 00:20:05,464 --> 00:20:08,204 illustrations that were either based in the house or the garden 372 00:20:08,214 --> 00:20:09,484 or the surrounding village. 373 00:20:10,260 --> 00:20:13,550 SEAN DOUGLAS: Eventually, in 1913, Potter was able to move 374 00:20:13,560 --> 00:20:17,219 her life permanently to the Lake District. When she married local 375 00:20:17,229 --> 00:20:21,260 solicitor, William Heelis, she fully embraced life as a farmer 376 00:20:21,270 --> 00:20:24,040 and became passionate about the conservation of the local 377 00:20:24,050 --> 00:20:24,680 landscape. 378 00:20:25,920 --> 00:20:28,079 LAURA WHITE: She had a huge impact on the preservation of 379 00:20:28,089 --> 00:20:31,180 this area and the best way to find out about that is to get 380 00:20:31,189 --> 00:20:34,579 out into the landscape really. 381 00:20:34,579 --> 00:20:36,729 SEAN DOUGLAS: For the next chapter of Potter's life, I've 382 00:20:36,739 --> 00:20:39,859 taken Laura's advice and I'm making my way to the summit of 383 00:20:39,869 --> 00:20:43,469 Loughrigg Fell to meet Harvey Wilkinson Cultural Heritage 384 00:20:43,479 --> 00:20:47,239 curator who knows all about Beatrix's legacy in the Lake 385 00:20:47,250 --> 00:20:47,829 District. 386 00:20:49,109 --> 00:20:50,209 Hi, Harvey, how you doing? 387 00:20:50,219 --> 00:20:51,524 HARVEY WILKINSON: Hi, Hi, nice to meet you! 388 00:20:51,524 --> 00:20:55,119 SEAN DOUGLAS: It's a miserable wet, cloudy, cold day. But I 389 00:20:55,130 --> 00:20:58,060 mean, even now just standing here looking down into the 390 00:20:58,069 --> 00:21:00,010 valley, it's kind of awe inspiring, isn't it? 391 00:21:00,020 --> 00:21:01,739 HARVEY WILKINSON: It's incredibly beautiful and the 392 00:21:01,750 --> 00:21:04,530 Lakes always wears bad weather really well. 393 00:21:04,689 --> 00:21:07,250 It never really gets gloomy, it just gets more romantic. 394 00:21:07,920 --> 00:21:10,260 SEAN DOUGLAS: My understanding of Beatrix Potter in the Lakes 395 00:21:10,270 --> 00:21:13,959 is hilltop. So how is she connected to what we're looking 396 00:21:13,969 --> 00:21:14,439 at now? 397 00:21:14,859 --> 00:21:16,709 HARVEY WILKINSON: The aspects of the Lake District were a bit 398 00:21:16,719 --> 00:21:18,160 more like a native Kensington. 399 00:21:18,170 --> 00:21:21,140 The place was full of intellectuals, artists, writers, 400 00:21:21,150 --> 00:21:25,079 and very very rich merchants and industrialists who were building 401 00:21:25,089 --> 00:21:27,449 villas around the Lake District. 402 00:21:27,449 --> 00:21:30,540 Before 1800, this was an entirely farmed landscape with a 403 00:21:30,550 --> 00:21:32,410 little village church in the middle of it. 404 00:21:32,420 --> 00:21:35,000 Now we look at it and we do indeed still see the same farmed 405 00:21:35,010 --> 00:21:38,229 landscape, kind of squeezed in the middle of that and the lake, 406 00:21:38,239 --> 00:21:40,229 we see the villas. We see the development. 407 00:21:41,050 --> 00:21:43,239 SEAN DOUGLAS: Together with family friend, Hardwicke 408 00:21:43,250 --> 00:21:46,359 Drummond Rawnsley, one of the founding members of the National 409 00:21:46,369 --> 00:21:50,180 Trust, Beatrix would devote much of her time and wealth trying to 410 00:21:50,189 --> 00:21:53,439 stop these developments by defensively buying up huge 411 00:21:53,449 --> 00:21:55,400 swathes of local countryside. 412 00:21:55,680 --> 00:21:58,819 She would also become an expert on the local traditional breed 413 00:21:58,829 --> 00:22:02,959 of sheep. The Herdwick which had grazed the fells for centuries 414 00:22:03,000 --> 00:22:04,130 but was under threat. 415 00:22:04,540 --> 00:22:06,219 HARVEY WILKINSON: It was one of the big differences with Potter. 416 00:22:06,229 --> 00:22:09,910 She was buying land to preserve a way of life and she certainly 417 00:22:09,920 --> 00:22:13,189 helped to preserve Herdwick Farming in the Lake District, 418 00:22:13,369 --> 00:22:15,579 which is now a very, very important part of the World 419 00:22:15,589 --> 00:22:16,479 Heritage Site. 420 00:22:16,670 --> 00:22:18,770 So you tend to look at landscape, you tend to think 421 00:22:18,780 --> 00:22:22,150 visually, but Potter was also working socially. 422 00:22:22,160 --> 00:22:24,459 She was aware that it was a landscape that people needed to 423 00:22:24,469 --> 00:22:27,729 access, the same sorts of stuff we're working on here in the 424 00:22:27,739 --> 00:22:30,319 Lake District every day. It's access to beautiful places. 425 00:22:31,489 --> 00:22:34,469 SEAN DOUGLAS: Beatrix Potter died at home at the age of 77 on 426 00:22:34,479 --> 00:22:37,719 the 22nd of December, 1943. 427 00:22:37,719 --> 00:22:41,479 She bequeathed to the National Trust 4000 acres of land, 428 00:22:41,489 --> 00:22:45,329 including 15 farms and buildings which are still working today. 429 00:22:45,449 --> 00:22:48,630 Much of the land she left now constitutes the Lake District 430 00:22:48,640 --> 00:22:51,420 National Park which she had spent years of her life 431 00:22:51,430 --> 00:22:52,109 preserving. 432 00:22:52,810 --> 00:22:55,989 And despite Beatrix Potter's success and fame and fortune 433 00:22:56,000 --> 00:22:58,829 from her career as an author, it's the life she built in the 434 00:22:58,839 --> 00:23:02,290 Lake District tending to her flock of Herdwick sheep that 435 00:23:02,300 --> 00:23:04,030 seems to bring her the most pride. 436 00:23:09,719 --> 00:23:13,239 GENERIC: Dear listener, we have now come to the end of our 437 00:23:13,250 --> 00:23:15,729 little Tale Of Beatrix Potter. 438 00:23:15,729 --> 00:23:19,619 To this day you'll find so many of her little tales at bedtime 439 00:23:19,630 --> 00:23:23,579 around the world as they're lovingly shared from generation 440 00:23:23,739 --> 00:23:24,760 to generation. 441 00:23:25,300 --> 00:23:28,310 But our story has perhaps been one you hadn't heard before. 442 00:23:28,619 --> 00:23:31,459 This is the tale of a girl and how the natural things of the 443 00:23:31,469 --> 00:23:34,579 world fuelled her imagination and guided her through the ups 444 00:23:34,589 --> 00:23:36,619 and downs of growing into a woman. 445 00:23:37,109 --> 00:23:41,130 And how even after she had grown up and found success beyond her 446 00:23:41,140 --> 00:23:46,449 wildest dreams, she returned to nature where she felt most happy 447 00:23:46,459 --> 00:23:47,089 and free. 448 00:23:47,969 --> 00:23:52,150 But listen carefully to hear one final chapter to her story. 449 00:23:55,199 --> 00:23:59,319 SARAH GRISTWOOD: When she died, she left instructions that her 450 00:23:59,329 --> 00:24:04,819 ashes should be scattered on the hillside above Hilltop Farm. 451 00:24:05,170 --> 00:24:09,910 It's the slope where Jemima Puddleduck finally manages to 452 00:24:09,920 --> 00:24:14,900 take flight, but no one knows precisely where and that's the 453 00:24:14,910 --> 00:24:16,300 way Beatrix wanted it. 454 00:24:34,900 --> 00:24:37,079 SEAN DOUGLAS: Thanks for listening to this episode of the 455 00:24:37,089 --> 00:24:38,329 National Trust Podcast. 456 00:24:38,709 --> 00:24:40,829 You can experience the remarkable world of Beatrix 457 00:24:40,839 --> 00:24:44,829 Potter for yourself until the eighth of January 2023 at the 458 00:24:44,839 --> 00:24:48,739 Beatrix Potter Drawn to Nature Exhibition at the V&A in London 459 00:24:48,750 --> 00:24:51,130 in partnership with the National Trust. 460 00:24:51,130 --> 00:24:54,079 To find out more you can head to this episode's show notes. 461 00:24:54,569 --> 00:24:57,170 If you've enjoyed this episode, you can follow and review the 462 00:24:57,180 --> 00:25:00,430 National Trust Podcast on your favourite podcast app and you'll 463 00:25:00,439 --> 00:25:05,359 find all our audio series at nationaltrust.org.uk/podcasts. 464 00:25:05,739 --> 00:25:08,579 But for now from me, Sean Douglas, goodbye.