Transcript:
Mike Gamble: [00:00:01] That authenticity when it comes to your culture and walking the talk is a difference maker when it comes to recruiting and retaining talent. It's just an important thing to remember.
Adam Stoker: [00:00:20] Hello everyone and welcome to another episode of the Destination Marketing Podcast. I'm your host, Adam Stoker. We've got another excellent show for you today. It's a topic that it's kind of funny I talked about it a lot on our other show, the Travel Vertical Podcast. We haven't discussed it near as much on the Destination Marketing Podcast. There have been a lot of changes in the labor market, especially in the tourism industry over the last 2 to 3 years obviously. I wanted to make sure that I brought in the right people to discuss this topic and maybe help everybody that's dealing with whether it's shortage of labor or trying to get good people to be interested in their jobs or whatever it is. I wanted to make sure that we have the right people to talk about it and I can't think of anybody better to do so with our friends at SearchWide Global.
My friend Cambria Jones is somebody I have been trying to schedule a recording with for a long time. She was at a destination in Texas before and now she's at SearchWide Global managing all of their marketing. I've also got Mike Gamble President and CEO of SearchWide Global and I think these are the two right people to answer some of my questions on this. So, I want to welcome both Mike and Cambria to the show.
Mike Gamble: [00:01:35] Thanks, Adam. Great to be here.
Adam Stoker: [00:01:36] Yeah thrilled to have you guys. I've got a couple of questions I'd like to ask everybody. You've both heard the show, you're familiar with it. So, you know where I'm headed with this. Cambria, why don't we start with you? I'd love to have you tell us first your dream destination and if you could go anywhere in the world Cambria, where would it be?
Cambria Jones: [00:01:52] You know, I think Bali is next on my list and for no other reason than it's just really beautiful from the pictures I've seen and it just represents everything Zen which I can always appreciate.
Adam Stoker: [00:02:03] I like that. I've seen lots of pictures, videos of Bali and reading up on it, it actually sounds like one of the more affordable international destinations that you can go to as well, is that correct?
Cambria Jones: [00:02:15] Absolutely. From what I've researched.
Adam Stoker: [00:02:17] See that's enough to move it up the bucket list for me right there. And so what is it about Bali that attracts you I guess other than what we already talked about with the affordability? What attractions or parts of the destination are most appealing to you?
Cambria Jones: [00:02:32] Yeah. You know, something for me I always love to meet the people and just kind of experience their culture. So, I haven't been able to explore that part of the world quite yet so I'm really excited about that and like I said the Zen that just goes back to it. I just feel like you just have the opportunity to kind of meditate and take in the beautiful nature and things like that. So that's what attracted me most.
Adam Stoker: [00:02:52] I love it. Okay, that's great. Mike, how about you?
Mike Gamble: [00:02:55] Yeah, Adam, I have two but I'll pick the most recent one that I just feel like I need to get to and that's Dubai. I haven't been to Dubai yet and I am very anxious to get there.
Adam Stoker: [00:03:07] Dubai is one of those places that when I hear people talk about it that have been there, it almost sounds like it's on a different planet. It's such a unique place. But what part of Dubai is it that makes it really appealing to you?
Mike Gamble: [00:03:22] Yeah. I'm intrigued by the development but also the innovation and coupled with it just seems like there is a little bit of something for everyone. I've heard such great stories. I think visiting from a business perspective would be interesting.
Adam Stoker: [00:03:37] Absolutely. Okay, I like that and then I wanted to hear briefly from both of you and maybe we'll stick with Mike and go back to Cambria after. Mike, what are your favorite travel memories that really stand out to you? Anything stick out as you look back through your life?
Mike Gamble: [00:03:52] Yes, I mean many, but usually family vacations. I have four kids and Kauai was probably our best trip. It stands out because it just felt like we were discovering parts of that island for the first time for anyone. It was just a great family memory more than anything.
Adam Stoker: [00:04:14] Oh how cool. So, I've been to Maui. I haven't been to Kauai. But everybody that goes there tells me that it's just amazing and it's almost the remoteness of it like you said it feels like you might be the first one to step foot in the part of the island that you're on. A lot of people talk about the remoteness of the island and the ability to really just get away from everything is pretty appealing.
Mike Gamble: [00:04:36] Very much so.
Adam Stoker: [00:04:37] I like it. Okay well, I guess it's still there on my bucket list then after you tell me your experience. Cambria, how about you?
Cambria Jones: [00:04:44] Well I want to break the rules a little bit and give you two favorite memories.
Adam Stoker: [00:04:47] Oh no, here we go already.
Cambria Jones: [00:04:49] I can’t. The first that always stands out is when I took my first solo trip in my early twenties to the UK. And I hit all the bumps that you would expect as a young solo traveler. But I think that's when I really fell in love with travel like it unlocked a whole new level. I was able to go see and experience things that I had only read about from taking a train to Paris and having lunch in the Eiffel Tower and just all of those things really always stay in my memory.
But the other one is actually in Dubai one year my mother and I were able to travel over there and we spent Mother's Day doing the desert safari in Dubai and that's just such a special memory and it was so awesome to get to experience that together.
Adam Stoker: [00:05:26] Well there you go, Mike. There's somebody who can be your tour guide there in Dubai.
Mike Gamble: [00:05:30] Perfect.
Adam Stoker: [00:05:31] Cambria, when you went, did you say you went by yourself to Europe?
Cambria Jones: [00:05:36] Yes, I did. That was my first solo trip that I can remember.
Adam Stoker: [00:05:39] And did you stay in hostels or was it in hotels or was it a mixture of both? How did that work?
Cambria Jones: [00:05:44] Well, luckily it was early twenties but post-college, so I was able to get a hotel and spend some time over there and I actually did a course while I was over there as well at the London School of Public Relations. So yeah, I stayed nicely, but not luxury for sure.
Adam Stoker: [00:06:00] Nice. So, you found the sweet spot there in the middle it sounds like.
Cambria Jones: [00:06:03] Yes.
Adam Stoker: [00:06:04] Was it scary traveling by yourself?
Cambria Jones: [00:06:06] It was, but it was that good kind of scary. Like it unlocked this whole new level. Like, you run into those bumps, but to have that sense of accomplishment that you can do it and you survived. It just kind of sparked that travel bug for me and I've been doing it ever since.
Adam Stoker: [00:06:20] Awesome. It's funny. I'm not a solo traveler. There's a lot of men that kind of feel like it's really manly to go camp by yourself and go into the wilderness for, I've got a brother-in-law that he goes to Canada on his own where there's grizzly bears and everything. I'll be honest with you, three hours by myself in the woods and I'm a little freaked out. So I really admire people that can go do this solo travel thing because I think it would be a really unique experience. But for some reason, the security of having someone that I know and I'm comfortable with around me is usually where I default to.
Cambria Jones: [00:07:02] Understandable.
Adam Stoker: [00:07:04] Well let's dive into both of you and how you ended up where you are. Cambria, we'll just stick with you and we'll go back to Mike. Tell us about your journey. I mean, obviously you've been on the DMO side and now you're more on the private side with SearchWide. What lead you there?
Cambria Jones: [00:07:21] Sure. Well, I went to undergrad for mass communication and I had my minors and public relations and advertising. I just knew I loved PR and I thought that would definitely be the way I go. I ended up in a market research firm right after college and then transitioned over to a digital agency. I started off in the social media department when it was pretty much just Facebook and Twitter and managing a baseline of accounts from everything from plumbers to dentists and everything in between. Then transitioned again over to the account management side for their search engine marketing and search engine optimization products.
That's where I feel like I really fell in love with the marketing side of things and got into that digital. What sparked my transition into the industry, I was very involved still with PRSA, the Public Relations Society of America and they have a section for travel and tourism. I just remember them having a really awesome conference and I literally said to myself, what do those people do and what job do I need to get so I can get to go to that conference? That really sparked my interest and I made the step over to my first DMO which was a small suburb in Texas, Allen Texas and that was my first CVB.
Adam Stoker: [00:08:31] Great. And then of course, how recently did you move over to SearchWide Global?
Cambria Jones: [00:08:37] Well, I've been, we joke about this because it's such a great fit that it feels like I've been here forever. But I'm just shy of my year and a half mark that I've been over here with SearchWide Global.
Adam Stoker: [00:08:46] Awesome. Okay. What led you to say, “Okay. I'm going to leave the DMO world and head over to SearchWide?”
Cambria Jones: [00:08:53] It was actually really easy. They did what they do best. I was recruited, they recruited me. It was great. I was very familiar with the company because I had the honor of being a 30 under 30 a few years ago. But that's when I first met SearchWide Global and just saw what they were doing for the industry and what a resource they were. When I got the call, it was for an internal position. I couldn't be more excited. So, it was just a really easy decision for me.
Adam Stoker: [00:09:19] I love it. Okay, well thanks for sharing that Cambria. Mike, how about you? Tell us about your background and how you ended up as President and CEO of SearchWide Global.
Mike Gamble: [00:09:28] Great. Thanks, Adam. And we're lucky to have Cambria so that was a year and a half ago, that was a great day for us. I'm one of the rare ones that actually went to hotel school Adam, gosh, in the early eighties. I'll never forget I was a business at the business school at the University of Wisconsin. I called my father when I realized that I wanted to go into hotel restaurant management in the University of Wisconsin stout had a four-year degree. His first question of course was, are you sure they have a four-year degree in that? I said, yeah, dad. Pretty sure.
I graduated and actually started working for Marriott. I was at Marriott for nine years. Was in various positions with Marriott all in sales, so all in large hotels and then ended up running national sales in Chicago was my last role with Marriott. Then I transitioned to the DMO sector, went to Philadelphia and was the Senior VP of sales and marketing for the Philadelphia Convention and Visitors Bureau. That again was at the time when Philadelphia just built a new convention center, the new Marriott was just opened. A great time to be there, renaissance for the city. I really felt like I hit that at the right time. That was in again, kind of mid to late nineties. Then in 1999 launched SearchWide Global.
It's been a good run. I guess the reasoning behind that it was some industry friends, one, in particular, Brian Stevens who owns ConferenceDirect who whispered in my ear and said I think there's a gap in the marketplace for a good industry-focused executive search firm. Why don't you think about it? He was right and we're still great friends 23 years later. But we really started in the hotel sector, in the then CVB sector and today where it's more encompassing than that. That's what really started our journey. So we started the business in Philadelphia and I now live, we're now headquartered in Minneapolis, Saint Paul.
Adam Stoker: [00:11:21] Okay, awesome. And Mike as you were told that there was a gap, how did you validate that yes, there's a gap and it would make sense for us to go ahead and take the leap of starting this company because I think any entrepreneur making that leap, it's always a scary and challenging decision. So how did you identify the opportunity enough to know that this was going to be a good thing and that however many years later you'd be a leader in the industry?
Mike Gamble: [00:11:48] Yeah, that's a great question. I sensed it on the CVB side, even though I had only been in the sector for a few years. But we had some great hoteliers who stepped up and said, if we do this, if I do this, would you give us a chance? And it really was Lowes and Starwood Hotels that said, yes, we would. When you have a couple of big clients and a couple of big brands that believe in you, I guess personally that we could make this work. That meant a lot to me and that really helped to solidify the decision and to say let's do it. If we have a couple of sectors, hotel and now DMO sector. And now of course it's many more than that.
But that was the big reason Adam, is having a couple of friends who were in senior leadership positions with a couple of large brands that really got behind us and yeah, made a difference.
Adam Stoker: [00:12:41] That's great. So as far as SearchWide as an organization, you're obviously an executive search firm, what does that entail? And who do you work with?
Mike Gamble: [00:12:51] Yeah, great question again. The DMOs, hotels, but now we're convention centers, stadiums, arenas, experiential. So when you think Freeman and other experiential clients like that, the big clients of ours, but it's so much more than just sourcing people and sourcing resumes. It’s a really consultative process and we were retained firms. So we really take over the entire search for our client, they expect us to manage that search on their behalf and bring them then the best qualified short list of candidates and really see them through the entire process until we get a signed offer.
It's so much more consultative than most think that it is and especially when you're working with the board of directors for instance in the DMO who just had perhaps had a leadership change. We do a deep needs assessment and really take our time to make sure that we get it right, that we understand the organization, that what's important to them so that we can find the best leader that we can. So we love the variety and clients and the different sectors that we work in but we pride ourselves in the level of service we offer and again the depth of our needs assessment and understanding of their business before we start to go try to find leaders to help their business.
Adam Stoker: [00:14:07] Great. All right, well it's good to have that background and understanding of SearchWide Global as an organization. Mike, I'll stick with you for one more question then Cambria get ready because we're coming back at you here in just a moment. But Mike you've obviously in doing this for as many years as you have, you've seen the market change many times. You've seen crises hit the industry; you've seen a variety of situations. I'm wondering, I had a conversation with Don Welch from Destinations International on my show actually in Bloomington when I was there for the CDME classes. He talked about; we've had 30 years of crises here in the last three years to try to work through in the industry so things have changed a lot.
I'm wondering with all this change, what are you seeing right now as far as trends go in the labor market that somebody that's looking to fill a position or somebody that's looking to take a position – What do they need to know?
Mike Gamble: [00:15:10] Yeah. Great question. This is again a really key aspect that we consult with our clients on Adam. Especially the expectations from the candidate and employee perspective have changed a great deal, culture is extremely important, and flexibility is important. People want to live their best life and have a job that fits with that and that's at all levels, that's from entry-level to CEO. So if you're the best employer you really have to take stock in that and have a culture that's authentic and that people can really relate to.
We're spending a lot of time with our clients in our industry talking about that especially as it relates to the generations. So, we have four generations in the workforce, in some cases five. We have to speak to all of those generations differently than we did when I was coming up. I'm a boomer that worked for a boomer, that's pretty easy. Today, not so much so. I would say that culture is you have to lead with your good culture and you've got to have a flexible work environment certainly and be real empathetic to the needs of people and the fact that they want to again live their best life.
Adam Stoker: [00:16:20] Great well and I'm sure we'll dive a little bit more into that as the conversation goes on. But that's a good overview. Cambria, let's go to you. I'm curious I've been seeing and I wonder if you guys or if this is just Adam making a false observation or if it's actually happening. But I feel like I've seen so many people in the DMO space maybe migrate from being in a DMO. I guess Cambria is a great example of this, right? Being in a DMO and then moving over to the private sector but staying within the industry, you've got these major tech companies like Zartico I feel like it's been on a tear over the last couple of years and really pulling a lot of talent from the destination side. And of course, there's other organizations that are doing the same thing.
We've actually even hired our first two people with DMO experience in our organization in the last year and tried to recruit from that side. I'm wondering if you're seeing the same thing on a macro level. And I'm wondering how you feel like it is or is going to affect the industry. Cambria, maybe we'll start with you.
Cambria Jones: [00:17:31] Sure. Well, you're definitely not imagining it, we're seeing the same thing. I think for our industry it's beneficial because it's kind of the sweet spot. It's not that we're completely losing them out of the industry and these people that have the DMO experience, it's easier than you can say, I've sat where you’ve sat, and you're working with clients from this side of the house. You know what it's like to maybe being a small DMO or know what it's like to wear multiple hats.
So, from that perspective, I think it's very beneficial. I think the people that are recruiting from the DMOs that's a smart move and I think as long as we can keep them in the industry and not lose them completely. I think we'll still be in a good spot where I get really concerned is where we lose them from the industry and then it's so hard to try to get them back. I think those of us that stay in, and even if it's on a different side speaks to how much we still value the industry as a whole.
Adam Stoker: [00:18:17] Great, yeah it is an interesting thought that if you look at it on a macro level, the fact that they're staying in the industry just means there's more knowledge in the industry as a whole, regardless of what side they're on. I think that's an insightful point, Cambria. Mike, is there anything that you want to add to that or anything you're seeing differently or want to concur with?
Mike Gamble: [00:18:40] Yeah, I would just say Adam, I agree with what Cambria just outlined, but things always cycle right and people also tend to boomerang back. While there will be some that take a journey into a different part of the industry, it's very likely that they boomerang back to an old job because they miss certain aspects of it. So we have seen those cycles. Don is right, we go through a lot in this industry and see a lot of things with the economy and just cycles like this. I guess I think you're correct. I think it is happening right now. I do think we'll see that boomerang effect actually sooner than later.
Adam Stoker: [00:19:19] I guess that boomerang effect Mike it might segue right into what my next question is here. And that's what does this shift that's happening right now? I presented it as a fundamental shift Mike. You're saying that it's more of a cyclical shift and I think that makes sense. Regardless what does what's happening right now mean for the future of the industry?
Mike Gamble: [00:19:41] Yeah. Again, I think it strengthens it. I think Cambria touched on it a little bit. I think that what we’re trying to do Adam and every and all the jobs that we search, especially in the DMO side introduce a new talent that is from somewhere else that perhaps our client hasn't thought of. When we can do that at all levels, I think that just strengthens the industry as well. When we can introduce candidates who commit either from the tech sector or perhaps healthcare or other places and especially in marketing or sales, we all benefit from that.
So again, I think during a cycle like this, I think it forces you to do that – to think differently and look in different places. I look at it as a real plus and will be better because of it.
Adam Stoker: [00:20:28] Great. Cambria, anything to add on that?
Cambria Jones: [00:20:29] Yeah, I just completely agree. Especially I know I'm a bit partial from the marketing background but when we look at this talent that we can bring in and just having that diverse background and those diverse experiences, it can only make the industry better in my opinion.
Adam Stoker: [00:20:42] Great. Now, I guess the question though is with that shift and this might be in addition to the list of questions that I sent over to you guys. But with that shift that's happening, whether it's cyclical in nature or not, what do destinations need to be prepared to do then to try to retain first and then attract new talent? Because I feel like if we are getting a lot of people right now moving out of the DMO and into the private sector, there's got to be some things that the DMOs can do on their side to do a better job of retaining their talent. Then of course, Cambria, we're going to get into, how do you make yourself more attractive to talent from whether it's from within the industry or outside?
Cambria Jones: [00:21:25] I can start with that one. I think one when we say when we talk about retention first, it’s definitely employee engagement. You have to look inside first and make sure that the values that you're putting out there that you say that you're about are actually raining true for your employees. When I say employees, I mean all of the employees and that may be just your experience. But what's that experience like for the women in your company? What's that experience like for the people of color? And making sure that you have that strong employee engagement because that's ultimately going to affect your brand? So, I would say start there.
Adam Stoker: [00:21:56] That's a great point, Cambria. I'm wondering how as a leader of a DMO as you're looking at the different groups that you might have within your organization like you mentioned women, people of color and there's other groups too that you want to make sure that you're providing a great experience for. How do you A) identify those groups and B) make sure that you’re crafting an experience that caters to a variety of groups that are within your organization?
Cambria Jones: [00:22:25] Yeah, I would say you have to have a pulse and that it's like it's your home. So you need to know what's going on there. You need to speak with them and you need to just make sure that it's actually relevant to them. So you may have these values and it's not a one size fits all. That's the other thing. Like you may have your company core values but everyone's experience is going to be different. Where we work is such a personal experience and so much more than a job. So you need to really have a pulse on that. You need to have those conversations and it needs to be genuine connections. Hopefully, then it will come naturally and you'll know when people are engaged and actually happy with what they're doing.
Adam Stoker: [00:22:59] Great. Mike, anything to add there?
Mike Gamble: [00:23:00] Yeah, Cambria’s smiling. She knows I definitely have something to add there. She's right on. People want a seat at the table Adam. They want their voice to be heard. They want to work for companies that have values that are meaningful. CSR is important. DE&I is important. We run a company at SearchWide Global, the majority of our team is under 35. Their voice is heard. Everyone's voice is heard. And I think the DMOs you really have to practice that. I think many of them have done a great job of that. But if you want to retain and nurture your talent, especially your younger talent, those things are critically important to them. We have to listen and be intentional when we listen. That doesn't mean that we're going to do everything that they need or require, but we need to meet halfway on certain things and again, listen to the voice and let their voice be heard. Really important.
Adam Stoker: [00:23:58] I like that, Mike. I try in this show to make sure that I'm giving the people that are listening some actionable takeaways. I think we've reached a point in the conversation where this could be an actionable takeaway. I'm wondering what are some examples of destinations that you feel like have built a framework for listening to their employees in such a way that the employees either want to stay and other employees want to go there because of the culture they've created? Any examples you can give me?
Mike Gamble: [00:24:28] Oh yeah, I certainly do. One in particular is Elliot in DC. For years he's given the mid-level managers of his organization frequent access to him so that he can listen to their ideas. His leaders aren't intimidated by that. I stole that idea from him. I do that at SearchWide Global now. I spend a lot of time with our non-VPs in the company so that I can hear what they're thinking, what they're working on, what's important to them. And Elliot was the one he's been doing that for years and it really allows everyone to say, gosh he does care, he is listening and he's able to act on some of these great ideas that are now bubbling up directly to him instead of coming through the typical vertical channel. That's one example.
One more that I'll give you is that for us we have a weekly team meeting and someone on the team runs that meeting every week. From a part-time associate to me, they pair up with someone else and they love having ownership in that. So it's their agenda, it is their opportunity to run the team meeting every Monday. They love that engagement. They love that empowerment. So those are a couple of examples that we've seen that have worked really well.
Adam Stoker: [00:25:40] Great and hopefully our listeners are taking notes on those two examples because I think they're great examples. Cambria, you think of brand as an external-facing part of your organization. Right? In my book, I call it the sum of all the touchpoints your organization has with the outside world. But I feel like inevitably destinations tend to look at it in terms of the visitor. You talk to me a lot about brand is just as important in recruiting labor and talent to your organization as it is to recruiting visitors to your organization.
What I'm wondering is: how does brand play into the recruiting process and what do you do with destinations to help them make sure that they are create getting a brand that's attractive enough to get some of these employees that you're helping recruit to want to go to that destination?
Cambria Jones: [00:26:37] Absolutely. It's very important. I think we are also good at marketing our destinations and it usually is visitor first and it's a lot of crossover. Some of the same things that make a destination attractive to a visitor will be the same that makes it attractive to a potential employee. We know the cycle that it all starts with a visit. So for a certain degree we use that. When I'm creating the marketing materials, I want those beautiful visuals, I want your destination video because we want to introduce this to the candidate and kind of get them attracted. But in the same vein, it's also important to have an employer brand.
For that, I think it's important that we kind of shift our messaging and make sure that we're gearing it towards that audience because then people want to know what's in it for them. That's great that they'll know kind of what you have to offer for the visitor and they'll join that force and join that team to do that. But first we have to say what's in it for them? What's in it for them and their family? Because that's the other thing, I think sometimes we forget, a lot of times in our jobs especially at the executive level, we may ask these people to relocate. It's not just them, they're bringing a family with them so what does the school district look like? What is their day-to-day life going to be like in the community? So, we have to speak to that as well. I think it's important to blend both the destination brand and your employer brand together.
Adam Stoker: [00:27:47] Okay, so let's say I'm a destination. I guess I work at a destination or running a destination, I should say. I would not be a destination. Anyway, I'm getting beyond myself here, but let's say that I'm running a destination, not a beach destination, not a mountain destination. I'm trying to make myself as attractive as possible to potential candidates. So once you get beyond the product, what can you do from a branding perspective to really focus on getting candidates to want to come and work and live in your destination?
Cambria Jones: [00:28:21] So just listening through that, if that was my creative brief, I would go to what's your community like because I'm saying if you don't have the beach, you don't have the mountains, I'm guessing maybe you have a really great experience within the community, some great stories to tell there. So, I would probably lead with that. Then again, if you're trying to make yourself attractive to talent, I would say, what do you have to offer them as far as their work experience? And we know some of the beginning conversations these days, especially for the younger generations are starting with the hybrid work environment.
Because you're not one of those maybe front-facing beach mountain destinations, would they be able to have kind of a hybrid work-life balance? What type of benefits would you offer to them just as an employee? And what their experience would be like within the organization? Do your employees just really love working together? Do you have a great company culture? I would lead more with that if we don't necessarily have like those great visuals to start with.
Adam Stoker: [00:29:15] Great and Cambria, you've inspired another question here for me that I want to dive into and that's how could destinations better leverage their website to attract talent?
Cambria Jones: [00:29:24] I think we have some very creative ways that people have done this. I wish I could think of some examples right off top, but destination websites can almost serve as relocation guides. I think it's really a great idea to actually have a section for that. So we know we have our different things for visitors, things to do in those different subsections but what about a section that talks about the lifestyle there? I think that's something that we could do because again, you have all these great materials already, but you just need to shift the messaging to this audience. I think if we lead with that and say just as much as it's a great place to visit, this would be a really great place for you to live and maybe give some of those stats too about the community and what it's like for people who actually work there and even some of that lifestyle stuff with the school districts, cost of living. That's another one that's important that we have to consider, especially with the current market. I think that's something that's maybe a bit innovative that we could do a better job of showing.
Adam Stoker: [00:30:23] Yeah, I think we've reached another possible action item for those that might be listening. Take a look at your website and if there's no content about what it's like to live there as opposed to visiting, maybe it's time for us to take a close look at our website and say, have we built this only for visitors or are we actually making it a resource to build our brand for those that might potentially want to work or live here someday? That seems like you said, Cambria, a relocation guide on a destination website actually seems like a brilliant addition to any destination website.
Okay. I think that that's been a really good discussion Cambria because it was eye-opening for me as you and I talked before the show to hear just how much branding and marketing can be valuable far beyond visitors, but actually, to attract talent, I appreciate you touching on that. Mike, I want to go back to you with a couple of questions that people might have. I think the first one is, is there still a labor shortage as it pertains to our industry?
Mike Gamble: [00:31:23] Yeah, Adam listen, we've got a big front-line labor shortage of about 1.2 million to be exact. And an entry-level management shortage. This our leadership pipeline in all sectors in travel is concerning. It's thinning. The demographics aren't on our side here as boomers continue to retire, we'll have to work harder to find young leaders who are going to start to move into those roles. I would say from frontline and entry-level management, yes. This will likely be an issue for quite some time.
What can we do? Well, we've just got to be more creative about where we look for talent, how we find new talent, where the transferable skills industries that are similar that we could pull talent? What are the ideal positions that we could bring people over from other industries and quickly train? Those are a lot of things that that we're working on. But yeah, I think for some time will be faced with this again, just purely because of the demographics and the way in which our leadership pipeline is thinning in all sectors of the greater industry.
Adam Stoker: [00:32:32] Well, and that leads me to another question then, Mike. Would you say that for maybe people that have been working in a destination that haven't considered themselves ready for early management, and instead are working like more of the entry-level jobs and entry-level is probably a little a little early for this, but maybe somebody that's been in a role for a couple of years that hasn't felt like they are ready for something like that, wouldn't this be a good argument that it's never too early to try and go for some of these positions that they might feel like outweigh their experience a little bit, but man could be a great opportunity to jump-start a career in leadership?
Mike Gamble: [00:33:11] Oh sure, yeah, we often encourage especially the CEOs to try to let their younger leaders cross-train, give them leadership experience. I mean give them people to that will report up to them, budgets to manage. It's extremely important. So no Adam, I think you're right. I think that we have to look for those opportunities because we know where we can insert great talent. It's often hard to insert new leaders into the DMO sector at the CEO level. So it's better to do it in the sales, especially on the sales side, perhaps sales leadership on the marketing side, especially digital marketing. What a great opportunity to bring other talent from other industries.
We're seeing a lot of that into the digital marketing arena who can work their way up through the marketing channel of a destination. So yeah, I think those are a couple of things to stay front and center on our radar. I think at all levels.
Adam Stoker: [00:34:09] Yes. So if you're listening, apply for the job, if it interests you and intrigues you apply. The worst they can say is no. What a great opportunity if there is a shortage of early management. Give it a shot and I hope that anybody listening that might be on the fence might be willing to do that. The next question I have is and you've touched on this is hey, we've got to be creative and find labor from other markets if we are having a thinning of portions of our workforce. I'm seeing that at the macro level, major, major tech companies are laying off a lot of people right now and that can be viewed and I think a lot of people are viewing it as a real problem for our economy.
My question is could we be viewing this in the tourism industry as an opportunity to say, you've already been in the tech industry and made the tech money that's out there, the monopoly money that's been used to pay some of these tech employees, how about now you work in an experience instead of in a job? Can we maybe convert some of these people that have gotten out of these high-pressure, high-tech jobs and say, hey, why don't you slow down, have a better experience, have a better time and contribute to an industry that is hungry for your expertise?
Mike Gamble: [00:35:31] Adam first and foremost, this downturn in tech is going to be to the advantage of our industry, right? These are pandemic darlings that were very hot and now the disposable income is being spent on travel, which many of the travel CEOs have noted that. But as it relates to talent, I was at a couple of industry events just the last 10 days. And the anecdotal stories that I'm hearing especially about the industry-related tech companies that are picking up some of this tech talent it's really overwhelming of the number of examples. So, I think you're right. I think that not just for the tech companies, industry-related tech companies, I think the DMOs have a great opportunity to look to some of this tech talent that is perhaps either been downsized or is looking for a change. I think you're right on. I think this could be this downturn as unfortunate as it is for the tech industry is in many ways going to benefit our industry.
Adam Stoker: [00:36:33] Interesting. Okay, Cambria how about you?
Cambria Jones: [00:36:36] Yeah, I 100% agree. I think every time I see one of those headlines, while it's so unfortunate that they're having these big layoffs, I saw it as an opportunity like how great would it be to get these people with that type of background into these destinations. Yeah, they'll have a much better work-life experience. We know the things that we love about our industry and I think that's our selling point.
Adam Stoker: [00:36:56] Great. Well, you guys, this has been incredibly insightful for me and selfishly another question that I have is I know that you helped destinations, I know that you helped the hotel industry and you mentioned a couple of the other parts of the industry that you service, I'm wondering if you help small businesses like mine recruit from other parts of the industry or is that something that you haven't really opened up yet?
Mike Gamble: [00:37:21] Oh, we do Adam. Yeah, you bet. In fact, we've got a couple of tech jobs open right now. We've done work for agencies in our industry and yeah, any companies that are serving the greater travel tourism hospitality industry, we can be a resource. So absolutely.
Adam Stoker: [00:37:39] Great. Yeah, I guess that's a conversation we'll have offline here.
Mike Gamble: [00:37:43] Yeah.
Adam Stoker: [00:37:44] Well, guys like I said, it's been great to have you on. Is there anything I haven't asked you that you think would benefit the audience to be able to hear whether it's about the labor market or your organization or any kind of parting words of wisdom you'd like to give?
Cambria Jones: [00:37:58] I really think we covered it. This has been really great talking with you.
Mike Gamble: [00:38:02] Yeah, Adam. We can't think enough. The last thing I guess I would say is that authenticity when it comes to your culture and walking the talk is a difference maker when it comes to recruiting and retaining talent. It's just an important thing to remember.
Adam Stoker: [00:38:20] Well you guys, this has been a lot of fun. If people want to learn more about either review individually or SearchWide Global as an organization, what's the best way for them to do so?
Cambria Jones: [00:38:28] Absolutely. I would say visit our website, searchwideglobal.com and it has all of our con information and our full team on there.
Adam Stoker: [00:38:36] Great. Well, thanks again for coming on. It's been really valuable and I wish you all the best as we continue to push this industry forward.
Mike Gamble: [00:38:44] Thank you, Adam.
Cambria Jones: [00:38:45] Thank you.
Adam Stoker: [00:38:46] And thanks everybody for listening. If you enjoyed today's episode, please don't forget to leave us a rating or a review. It helps us continue to bring you amazing guests like Cambria and Mike. Thanks, everybody and have a great day.
[End of Transcript]
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