Dr. Lauren

Wed, Nov 16, 2022 12:36PM
56:31
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
parents, students, orton gillingham, dyslexia, child, tutoring, questions, understand, struggling, feel, reading, teaching, iep, support, teacher, podcast, talking, school, read, impact

00:04
Okay, Dr. Lauren, I am so ecstatic to have our conversation today and I'm ready to jump in,learn, learn learn about such an important topic. But before we do our deep dive, tell me a littlebit about your experience and your what your main focus is.
00:23
Yeah, absolutely. So when you first and foremost, thank you so much for having me on your podcast. I love talking about All Things D cubed. And I also love connecting with, with people. So this is fantastic. So those of you who are not familiar with my work or familiar with me, I mylittle elevator pitch is I started my career actually, thankfully, gratefully in a private dyslexicschool. And given you know, the movement of soul the story by Emily Hanford, I'm so glad thatI had all of my grounded research in Orton Gillingham from day one. So I actually started mycareer, teaching elementary school in specialized private schools to neuro diverse students thathad language based learning differences. And then after that, I moved into the public school world. And I actually taught in the county in which I grew up in and I was a special educator forabout four years. And and that was a great experience, because I learned a lot about the IEPprocess and what that looks like and all that red tape that we've got to cut through publicschool. So that is a little bit about my schooling journey. I've worked in nonprofits, coachingteachers, I've also been a learning specialist at on the administrative team. And currently rightnow I am a business owner and doing podcast interviews and just spending my time in waysthat I feel serves my community and this space.
01:50
I love all of this and two things. One, you're a local girl to me. So I appreciate that. and Maryland. So that makes me very happy. And you mentioned sold a story. I hope everybodylistens to it, and gives it a listen to give the background and the energy and the information.Woof. I just read that. Well, I there's one more to be released, right? Tomorrow, I
02:18
think, hmm,

02:19
I can't wait. I cannot wait. Just we could have a whole discussion on unpacking the soul to story podcast. So absolutely. That was my little side note. So what brought you like what initially inspired you to pursue the field of reading?
02:38
Wow. Okay, so that's a really good question. I. So I went to Syracuse University, and I went for undergrad for a track scholarship. So I was a psych major. And then I pursued educationbecause I knew I always loved kids, but I didn't really know what I wanted to do with it. And so with Bing. If anyone knows Syracuse University's School of Education, they're very progressivein the ideology around inclusion and all meaning all. But what's ironic is I never learned anything about dyslexia. I never learned anything about really how to truly teach a child to read. I took a reading methods course and my special education work. But I don't ever really remember learning about dyslexia. So when I graduated, I had this elementary, elementarydegree and a master's degree and a special education degree. But I knew that I wanted to go into special ed, I didn't know where that would land me. I didn't know what it was. But I ended up at the Swift School, which is in Roswell, Georgia, and that was when I had this interview withthe head of school at the time. And I always I always Credit Suisse, because it's just a special place in my heart. And he was asking me what's working? Do you know what Orton Gillinghamis? Do you know what dyslexia is? And I was literally like, I'm going to fail this job interviewbecause I don't really know what I don't know. But I really want this job and it's a fourth grade position. And I know I want to be elementary school teacher. So I ended up getting the job because he realized I had this thirst for knowledge. I really wanted to understand as Iremember I said who's Orton Gillingham is one partisan and of course he laughed just like youknow, we just did, but he could tell that I really wanted to learn. And so that was really the start. I ended up getting a job. I moved down there in June, I believe to start my associate levels, coursework. And that was when I worked with my Orton Gillingham fellow amongst othercolleagues and parents. And that was really the eye opener where I was like, wow, reallyteaching kids how to read is not easy. And I am getting this like amazing coursework andpracticum with students in my class, and it kind of just fell into my lap. And I want to teach kids how to read it was just how my journey set me up for success if you will,
04:59
which is a great Right and DRO because you've mentioned dyslexia, but there are a couplemore DS in that conversation. So can you tell me what the three Ds are? Before we get started on explaining them?
05:13
Sure. So I have coined the term d cubed. Because just in my journey of like, trying to have thiselevator pitch, I'm like, it's so much to see dyslexia. dysgraphia dyscalculia. So I say dq, right.And so those who are in my community and know my work, know what I'm referring to. So when I say d cubed, it's exactly that dyslexia, dysgraphia, and dyscalculia, or some folks say,dyscalculia. And it's all encompassing, because they're all language based learning disabilities,or differences.

05:44
Let's talk about that. And I want us to start with dyscalculia, because it is probably the leastunderstood and heard about in conversation. So can we, you know, dyslexia is a common termand one that we are going to try to fit into our show later. But why is dyscalculia not talked about so much? And what is it?
06:09
Yeah, so you know, that's a really, it's a really good question. I personally think, from myexperience, and I actually learned more about dyscalculia when I was in public school, and itwasn't because of training, it was because of my own grounded research, my own experienceteaching language based learning different students in specialized schools, and then applyingthat to public school to realize there's something going on here. And it's not just this kid is lazy,you know, or whatever math teachers say they just are like, Oh, they're not working hardenough. So I think there's just not a lot of knowledge around it. And when there isn't awareness and knowledge, you can't have trainings on it. So I think that's kind of the first thing. Now, the most simplistic scribe does calculate is it's essentially like,
06:59
reckon Dr. Lauren, I'm so sorry. I, your it kind of went out a little bit. So I just want to make sure the audio is clear. Sure. back that up, maybe like 15 seconds.
07:10
Okay, what did you What did you hear me say before I cut out?
07:15
So you were saying that it wasn't because of like, laziness or not wanting to do something, andthat we don't have enough training on it? Because we don't know enough. And or we don't know enough. So we don't have enough training?
07:31
Okay. Yeah. All right, I'll start them. So I really truly feel that, from my experience, mathteachers, who are working with students who, let's say, Aren't excelling or aren't getting theconcepts as quickly, they just assume that students are lazy, they're not applying themselves.And really, what I think is happening is there isn't the awareness, there isn't the knowledge. So if that's not addressed, then you can't have trainings for teachers to know how to do better,because when we know better, we do better. So for me, I described as calculate as, essentially,the easy definition is dyslexia but with numbers, but it is more complex than that. And I believe there is research that supports that about three to 7% of children. From an article this is actually from a 2019 article, titled The diagnosis, the diagnosis and treatment of discount Lea,so three to 7% of children, adolescents and adults suffer from. So when you really think aboutthat, in relation to dyslexia, there's like a nine to 12% population of dyslexics. So this calculator is a bit smaller, but it's still prevalent with comorbid disabilities as well.

08:55
So what are some common signs and symptoms for both professionals and parents to kind ofthink about? And it's very timely that we're talking about dyscalculia, because it was on thephone with a mom this morning that was questioning if her child had it. So what are some signsand symptoms that parents can kind of keep in their head as they're watching their childthrough the math curriculum?
09:19
Sure. So this is actually taken from the Dyslexia Association. And you can actually see signs and symptoms as early as preschool. And I think more than often parents are like, Oh, no, it's fine. Or oh, they'll get it or whatever it is. And I think that that's comfortable for us, because we just assumed things will just kind of click but really, if we take action and intervene earlier thanwe know, we know more. So a few to kind of rattle off for preschool age, if they have trouble counting. And I know that some of these might be like, oh, you know, it's fine, but just keepthese in mind. So have trouble counting struggles to connect a number to an object. So if they're like three apples, and there's the number three, can they really make that connection?That quantity connection? Or are they struggling with that? are they struggling to recognizepatterns, like smallest to largest or largest to smallest, it's actually interesting because I havemy youngest daughter is almost five. And the other day she was setting up her bed, one of herjobs in the morning is I make her bed and she puts her stuffies on her pillow. And she said to me, mommy, I want to I want to size them from smallest to largest, and then the top largest tosmallest. And that is a preschool concept. So if your child is struggling with that, that could be something to really factor in. There are a few other things too, like struggling to recognize, forexample, three plus five is the same as five plus three, you know, really understanding thatassociated property, having trouble with some police value, so maybe knowing that 10 looksdifferent than one things of that nature. And there are a few other signs and symptoms that Icould keep rattling off, but those are a few to really think about. And maybe when do you canlink the with link this in the show notes for people to kind of see what the signs and symptoms are. Because there are a lot in primary school that we can kind of hone in on to see hmm, okay,this might be something to really think about. Another thing I do want to touch on is how does calculate impacts adults teenagers. So this is actually really interesting social skills. So if youthink about elementary, middle school age, or even high school, and we think about games, wethink about money games, or we think about, you know, going out with your friends and payingsomething or adding tip like that can be very stressful. And it might require a lot of processing, or it might require a lot of quick number crunching. And depending on working memory, we know that that can be an issue. So this calculator can impact social skills, it can also impact a sense of direction. This one is a huge eye opener for me, I actually interviewed a high school girl who was an amazing advocate for herself, and others in this space have just calculatedreally in the D cube space. And she was telling me how nervous she was about taking her driver's test. So what we don't realize is, when we learn to drive on autopilot, right, we're justdriving down the street, we're like, oh, there's our exit oak gotta merge over. That requiresplanning, that requires looking at your speedometer to make sure you know your speed limit,to know how far apart you are from the car in front of you to be able to anticipate directions toknow how to merge over so that your sense of direction is huge. Also time management. So there is a gentleman of mine who I actually interviewed who's from Norway, and he shared hisdyscalculia story and how he gave himself accommodations. So he told the story about how hehad timers to set before he would get to work, because he had no concept of time when he wasin high school. So he would actually set a timer for five minutes to know, this is what fiveminutes feels like. So I only have five minutes to do whatever. So that whole concept of time issomething to really think about that I know a lot of teachers get frustrated with students wherethey're like, why is it taking so long or like you realize you've only done one thing in 20minutes? Well, they don't have a concept of time. So you have to teach that. And then the last one is the money management, which I talked about that with social skills. So this calculator really impacts so much just like dyslexia does, but I just don't think there's that awareness toreally know why these things are impacting our students or adults.

13:42
Fascinating. Fascinating. I'm sure there are folks listening that are like, Oh my gosh, light bulblight bulb light bulb moments. Can you just share with us? What are some common barriersthat this can present, say, for school and progress within school?
14:03
Okay, so I always use my examples from when I was co teaching middle school math. I really think the barriers. So I taught eighth grade co taught eighth grade math for three years andeighth grade curriculum, at least in Maryland. It was just like, What do I call it? I call it a buffet.You had your geometry unit, you had your algebra unit, you have your statistics unit. And it was so interesting to really see these eighth graders that struggled. And it was just like such a social, emotional, holistic approach where it was like this unit. They're struggling because geometry is too abstract. And they don't understand that reality a connection in their lives to know how to apply this. But there's also the barriers of when this isn't identified or understood at that. preschool primary age, when we get to systems of equation that requires 5678 steps tosolve a problem, and we have students that are struggling with basic addition, or basicunderstanding that quantity is bigger than that, we're going to really have some real, realchallenges here. And so when you have the student component, then you have that teacher.And I'm speaking from a public school standpoint, the teacher stress, there's so much to coverin a math curriculum in a year, at least in the state of Maryland. That's all I can speak on. But there was so much for us to cover in those however many days and then we had to prepare forthe standardized tests. So it's just this like, complex systemic issue that when I would go tocounty PDS, and we would go to, you know, the special educator would go to whatever codewhatever classes they co taught, so I would go to math. PDS are good at English PDS. This was never talked about, it was more about how do we get our students to perform better, you know,very, I felt like nebulous concepts. They weren't like, you know, what we're looking at thenumbers we're seeing that they're that this is a thing, this is something that our teachers need to be trained in, this is something that at least they need to understand or have some sort of screeners. So how do we kind of get them educated to them really fill in those gaps? And now, Iknow that was like, a lot, kind of just thrown out there. But I mean, I just feel like there are so many barriers, like so many systemic barriers.

16:34
Yes, yes. Yes, yes. And so, when you think about it, kind of a step back when talking about thepreschool and the foundation, and it really runs through for a lot of things, right. So, you know,you have a parent that says, you know, I'm not really sure what to do, or you have a teacherwho says, you know, I think they're okay, they're fine, they're doing fine, they're sweet andclass, no behavior problems, or whatever that combination conversation could look like. But if you have, you know, parents and educators, especially when it comes to math, and really, a lotof things will say, Oh, well, there's a calculator for that, or there's spellcheck for that, you know,it's fine. But it really is this huge ripple, of an impact, especially when you had mentioned, youknow, the social impact time management, money, awareness, financial skills. So really doesbuild upon each of these steps as kiddos are going through the grades, and definitely is goingto impact that future independence, education and employment. And so, again, as parentsasking the questions, really trying to get the answers, and that's a lot of what we, my hope isfor this podcast, is to be able to share this knowledge so that parents can say, Okay, I need toask these right questions. So it's not this compounding impact.
17:56
Yeah, no, no, I would absolutely agree with that. And, you know, when do you when I was reallydoing research on this calculator, probably about a year and a half ago, I was like, you know, Ireally want to learn, where did this come from? Like, what are the types what's going on here?There, it's actually very intimidating. And I say that being someone where I feel like I'mcomfortable talking about this, but it is, the thing about math is it's its own language. So if youare struggling already with learning English, meaning just English language arts, I'm talkingabout if English is your first language, and you're struggling to understand grammar, justmechanics, then you go to math class, and they're like three or four different ways to show howto multiply. And then there's like three different ways to show how to divide. And then you have, and then you hear some, and addition, and all of these crazy things. And so what's important to know, with this calculator, there are two subtypes. And within those subtypes, andI have an Instagram post that has a visual with of this, there, there's an umbrella of what thislooks like. So I just want to quickly touch on this because this is really important. So there's composites, so there's mathematical computation disorder. So that is one subtype. And then there's mathematical reasoning disorder. And so within those subtypes, there are nine types of just calculate. It's nuts. So
19:26
yeah, so then how do you really tease out what is what and kind of jumping ahead but we talkabout comorbidity within these conditions? So how is a parent or professionals supposed totease out to know you know, you're talking about nine different types. And somebody that doesn't know have the strong background that you do to ask the questions, you know, in termsof what can comorbidity look like and how do I support the student and how do I tease out trulywhat is impacting that child so that we can bridge those gaps.

20:04
I mean, that's honestly the million dollar question. I mean, it really is because I believe Maryland is now putting dyslexia on IEPs. Right, and dyscalculia dysgraphia. But here's the bigger issue. When we look at public school testing, it's my understanding that each county ordistrict, wherever people live, they have a set battery of assessments that the psychologistperforms that the OT performs that the SLP performs, it's not until the results are not. It's not until parents are not happy, right, that they push for more that they then pull out the big guns,which from my experience, are the tests that the private providers use. So it's really it's reallythis, again, this systemic complexity, where I don't even know from my experience withspeaking with neuropsychologist, and this is, you know, quests that I'm on? Can they actuallysay, this child has dyscalculia? And they have operational discount, like this is the subtype ofthat stuff? I mean, can they do that? I don't know. I really don't. But that poses a problem,because let's just say you have a neuropsychologist that can say that, and puts it in the report.And then the parents argue we want this on the IEP, what does that mean to the teacher?Teacher doesn't know what that is. So then that, that causes systemic issues where it's mucheasier to go back to ID, EA for those 13 subcategories, and you just put SLD. And then you're vague. And then you're covered legally, and you're good. But we now know that we're not good. So I don't I don't know when the it's the million dollar question.
21:56
We could record a whole nother podcast on public school testing versus private school testing,and what that means and the categories and asking for training within an IEP meeting. And all of that goodness, we need to have a whole follow up conversation about that, because it reallyis important for parents to understand what that means in their rights. Right. So but for the purpose of our conversation now, we've introduced dyscalculia. Can we just chat a little bitabout dysgraphia? Because that's another one that's not as discussed, as common as dyslexia?
22:37
Yes, absolutely. So with dysgraphia, again, this isn't language based learning, difference or disability. And I always use those terms interchangeably based on who I've spoken to, becausesome folks see it as a disability because it was robbed of who they could have become becausethey were diagnosed later in life, versus see it as a gift, because they were diagnosed at six orseven and got the appropriate intervention. So I always say those interchangeably. dysgraphia is crazy. So I gave the statistics about this calculator and dyslexia. So apparently, according toattitude magazine, dysgraphia is about five to 20% of our population. So that's kind of a huge, a huge range. But you know what it honestly kind of makes sense. So So what I really want to touch on is, or, Oh, hold
23:34

on, Dr. Lauren. Let's back up like five seconds, just because I don't know why it went out. though. You had said attitude magazine, five to 20% of the population. And that's a wide range, but you wanted to touch on and then it like,
23:48
buzzed up. Perfect. No, no problem at all. And I think I was thinking too, so I had a pause. Okay, yes. Okay. So I want to touch on the fact that, depending on how old your child is, some peoplemight view dysgraphia as more of a fine motor issue. versus some folks might view it as a writing processing issue. You're not wrong. It could be both, and depending on your child, sosome some of the common signs and symptoms are forming letters, writing grammatically,incorrect sentences, spacing letters, so spacing is really interesting. I've tutored students that are first, second third grade and when you look at their right, sometimes it's just it's not reallyage appropriate. You know, they might have really big letters or they might start off rather thanif they're on you know, the, I know, people can't see me. Like, I'm like, err, tracing paper andstarting at the left side of the paper, they might start in the middle. I've seen that before, where they don't have a concept of No, we got to start here. And we have to really, you know, make sure that we are lining up our words. So spacing letters, correctly writing in a straight lineis a big indicator, you see students kind of just going down in a circle. Or, for example, I've seenkids, when I taught fourth grade, they were, they would break up a word in a in a reallyinappropriate space. So they're spelling the word cat, they would have like C A, and then putthe T on another line. And it's like, okay, well, that kind of tells us something, holding andcontrolling a writing tool. So that's where that ot comes in with that fine motor, clearly writingenough to read back later, and writing complete words without skipping letters. So if you havea student that has both trouble with the fine motor skills, really, you know, planting andknowing where to place on a paper and knowing how to appropriately spaced letters, and theystruggle with getting ideas out, that is probably a disaster if you don't know how to supportthem. And you might start seeing seeing behavioral issues, because I always say reading andwriting are civil rights. So if we can't read and decode and comprehend and be in discussionwith our peers, no matter what grade we're in, and we also can't communicate, the writing, willfrustrated, and it's a lot better to go to the office and get in trouble rather than raise your handand say, I'm struggling with this. I need help.
26:16
That's right. That's right. And so how I want to, I kind of jumped on to dysgraphia. But I really want to kind of take a step back and then forward at the same time. How can we pull thistogether in terms of support, so I want to make sure that we understand what that looks like ifwe have a student or a child that we feel is impacted with a language based disability that fallsunder reading, writing or math? And then how can we then know what support that thatstudent would need?
26:53
So I think in regards to all D cubes, I think the first thing that I always recommend is exactlythat. So you're listening to this podcast. So you're, you're gaining knowledge you're you'rehearing, I didn't know the depth of discount discount layer, I didn't know the depths of Discraft yet. So now how do I learn more to know how to advocate, I actually have a podcast episodecalled five questions to start the DQ conversation. And it's really cool. It's based on an article I found actually, and I kind of just, you know, weave in some of my own experiences at the IEPtable. But it really I feel it really empowers parents that let's just say they're listening to thispodcast, or any of my podcasts or anybody else in this space. And they're like, Okay, I have all this, but I don't know what to do. Those five questions, drive you to have the discussion with the IEP team, or the teacher. And they're simple. They're simple things that we don't even thinkto ask like, Well, why can't we put dyslexia on the IEP? Or what's the difference between SLDand dyslexia? And I think more than often, parents don't ask those questions for two reasons.They don't know. And also, there is a level of reverence and respect to it to a certain extent,where parents are like, Well, I'm just trusting that they're, they know what's best for my kid.Now, obviously, we have the other parents that higher advocates, and they're like, you don'tknow what's best for my kid. But I mean, I've seen those parents where I'm at the table, andI'm like, they aren't asking any questions, like, and then I'm over extending, because I wantthem to ask questions. So I know I just went on a tangent.

28:35
No, but I think that's really good. So I heard two questions. Why can't we put it on? And thenwhat is the difference? Can you share the other three? Yeah, I'm trying to putting you on the spot.
28:47
I know you are. Wendy. I'm trying to think what the other ones are. I think what oh, is it illegal?Is it illegal to put these terms? Is it illegal to put like the D cubes on the IEP? Now? Technically,it's not the education department states that there's there's no legal reason not to, which thentells you more about your school districts. So then that pushes parents to say, well, I know thatthe education department says that it's not illegal. Can you tell me why you're telling me youcan't put this on the IEP? And then that really pushes the school to then answer thosequestions. And I don't know where that will go. I am by no means trying to advocate any sort of due process here. I'm just saying I just want parents to feel like they do have a seat at the table. Because this is this is real. It's ridiculous. It's ridiculous. When you look at the numbers ofthe literacy rates, you look at the standardized testing scores across the country, and they arejust awful. And it's like we have to stop ignoring the big elephant in the room. We need to I know it's not this Simple to ignore a school budget. But we've got to really put our money in aplace, we're investing in getting the right training for our teachers to then support our students.And then for the parents to feel like my tax dollars are really at work and my child is gettingwhat they need.
30:16
I would side note, as like a low hanging fruit for any parent listening, if a school district at theIEP table says it's illegal, or we can't do that, I encourage you to say I need you to put that inour prior written notice. And that then is in writing. So then you have something to fall back on. If you need to push forward. Again, I am not a lawyer, either. But that would be my advocacy tip. With that.

30:45
I think that's great.
30:47
All right. So do we have the other two questions,
30:51
I don't have them off the top of my head, but I am going to direct people to my podcasts
30:56
to that. And then what I'll do is I will get the episode number four for Lauren's podcast. So we can reference it if you're thinking what are my five questions I needed to ask, I don't wantanybody to feel like they're left hanging without the information. So now that we have an idea about what these look like, I'd love to hear about your unique approach to supporting students.
31:28
So right now, I am not in the classroom anymore. But I do love to keep my my hand on the pulse by tutoring. And so for me personally, as I'm building my business, I realized that the waythat I approach these things is from a holistic approach. So I love to have a comprehensive experience for these families. Because my biggest thing is, I have found that parents feel oncethey have this information, once they get that diagnosis, once they get those accommodations,they're looking for an OG tutor, but they think they are not, they may not realize they thinkthis, but this is the theme I'm seeing, I found you and this is great. And this is an intervention that my kid needs. Great. So how many sessions until they're better. And as I'm walkingthrough this, building my own business, I'm not in the classroom, I'm not, you know, I don'thave to go to my principal or whatever, I'm realizing, I need the parents in on this as a holisticapproach. So what I do is I usually do my diagnostic assessment, I always cater my lessons towhat my students need. However, transparency is huge for me. So if I find that we are 10 hours in, and I'm not seeing the progress that I want to see. And it seems as if maybe the studentmight need another service provider, I then get the parents on board. And we talk. And we have a very honest, candid conversation. And sometimes it's hard for parents, so and I'm sortof like, but I'm paying you to do X? And do you think that you can provide why and then I, youknow, go back to, here's what I can provide, and it takes a village. And there's so much and it really is holistic. And so with that parents get coaching within my tutoring packages, as well.And I think in the beginning, they're looking at me like what, what do I need coaching for andit's, and it's really, and I tell them, I said it's a safe space. So you can literally hop on the call with me. And you might want me to walk you through how I plan this lesson. And maybe you want to do some extra work with your child. Or maybe you're stressed about this upcoming IEPmeeting and you want to gameplan or maybe we just want to have a good cry, you know,whatever it is, you know, and so I feel like I've seen a lot of positive energy and just I love working with that holistic approach, not just here's an hour, here's the invoice. Like it's that's not what I'm all about. I'm all about making that that systemic change by connecting with thefamily at the grassroots level.

34:07
That's right. And it's a family system, right. So if there's an impact that a third child is having achild is having within a family, it's impacting everybody. And so having the parents understandthe child's perspective and having you walk through that with them is a blessing. What is you talk about a five prong approach? What does that mean? What are the prongs
34:31
Yes. So it is school systems. It is understanding. So understanding the D cubes, it is special education. It is that community and it is also advocacy. So when I do my Instagram posts, I tryto sprinkle in some of that so it's you know, really speaking to the teacher And the parentswhen I do school systems, like I want them to understand like, Hey, here's what's going onhere. And here's baby what's not happening. And here's something you might need to know about. That advocacy is really about the parent and the teacher, you know, how can theyadvocate to know how to really support my students in classroom? But how can you as a parentactually say, how do you support Mike in the classroom? Actually, it's really interesting to goback to Seoul the story, there was this one parent, which I'm sure you'll remember this Monday,where she was so upset that her I think her son's name was Charlie, that her son wasn'treading. And she said, she regretted that she never wrote a note or said anything, because shesaid she really trusted the school and didn't want to upset them, when meanwhile, she's like,crying silently at home, realizing her child struggling, but she didn't want to upset the schooldistrict. And I think that that is yet again, a system that's put in place where, you know, it's kindof like us going to the doctor. And we're like, I don't agree with what you just said, You're notreally going to say that unless maybe you've been in this journey, and you're frustrated, youhaven't gotten answers. But I want parents to feel like you can push and pull and ask and all of that. So yeah, it's really just all of those five pronged approaches where I personally feel a lot ofpeople see it as it's just academic. But it's really not. It's all about understanding all of those components. And community is a huge component to that, which is why I now have a parentcommunity because I really want people to feel like I can drop in a line, I can ask a question, Ican share my story, I can hear this mom and feel like there is a light at the end of the tunnel.
36:42
I think as parents, oftentimes you feel alone and a journey. Because maybe you don't have afriend or somebody in your community that's going through something similar to ask. So providing that space is incredible, so that parents can feel like I'm not alone in this process. You mentioned advocacy, and in addition to community and speaking up like the parent of Charlieand retold the story. I think the best way and I'm going to ask you this as well is to when youapproach the school to have some kind of data, right? So that you are not just coming fromthis, you are coming always from a place of place of fear and love as a parent, but that youhave some data to kind of backup, what you're asking for. And so can you tell me more aboutthe data that you are collecting when you're working with a student? And how can that inform either an IEP team? Or how can we help parents understand how to collect data, which soundsoverwhelming and scary, but I think as professionals, you and I can help break that down forparents so that they can go to the school with information, not just something's not right, or mychild struggling?

37:57
Yeah, no, I think that's a really great question. And I think that's another reason why I love my comprehensive packages, because I do that. So what I do, and I tell parents this, I set up a whole Google folder for them. With all information with all annotated lessons. I know that sounds nuts, but I just love to like really have that narrative. Because I that's also data. So what I usually do is I start off with my diagnostic assessment. So I use the galliston LS, I don't know if you're familiar with that, or if others are familiar with it. I've been using that as my diagnosticassessment for decoding ever since I was at switch school gives me such rich data. So what it does, it's a three part test. So it breaks down all of the sounds. I mean, there are so manysounds, control vowel teams everything, then it it does spelling, then we do reading. So that is a whole piece of data that actually drives where the lessons are going. So that's one piece. I also do fluency. So I use Wilson readers, I don't believe I mean, I don't want to say I don'tbelieve in leveled readers, I think there's a balance, not balanced literacy. But I think there's a balance, where once you get to know the words, maybe we can, you know, weave those in. But I always start off with controlled Wilson decodable, because I love those. That's just how I was trained. So I pull things and then I do timed reading. So then I have a whole fluency chart likewe started here and you started at 35 words per minute, and let's try to increase this fivewords per week or whatever the goal is. And then every single lesson, I have some sort of datapoints on like, how many sight words do we know how many sight words can we read? Howmany sight words can we spell? How many how how's our fluency with small sentences? So Ihave a lot, which is why they're called comprehensive packages. But I find so much joy inwriting that narrative and really having those numbers because for me, I know that if I'mpaying someone a pretty penny, like you're all of this information, I'm going to bring it to theSchool because the school will say your child's on grade level. They're in fifth grade. And then you're like, Well, we have a true Orton Gillingham trade practitioner here that says otherwise,and I'm fine with otherwise, because this is data supporting where we're going, and what'shappening. So I just got really passionate about this.
40:16
Oh, my gosh, I think we're kindred spirits, for sure. Because that's exactly through learning essentials. And when I work with my reading intervention students 100%, I start with, whereare our gaps? Where our gains? Yes, you know, and we do an assessment because I want totake a deeper dive for all of those reading elements that you just mentioned. And I hope that parents jot that down as well. Because you want to know, where are we and reading fluency,comprehension? Phonemic phonemic awareness? Where is our breakdown? Where do we knowour sounds? Where do we not know our sounds? And then from there, each session, I also sent home a lesson notes so that you can see what transpired during that session with data points.So we can see where is our growth, where are pockets of vulnerability, and, and that thendrives your next session. And so I think, as a parent, understanding that and having somebody help you through that now, if you don't have access to one of us or a reading interventionperson, what could a parent do to kind of do their informal data collection that they can bringto the school?

41:27
That's a really good question. Um, you know, and I don't have like a quick witted answer to that. I mean, I'm always about sharing resources. But I don't know, I know that there are a lot of homeschool and moms out there. And so I don't want to offend anyone. But I guess I feel that sometimes it's hard for parents to know what to assess. And, like I said, I mean, I don't know maybe there's some moms are gonna go Google Gallo Cell Atlas. Now, I don't know. But you also have to know how to give the test. Right? So I think it's that's a really challenging question.Because I know more than often, some parents might be like, let's work on your reading. And then their idea of working on their reading is to get a level reader. And I mean, I actually had this is a true story with my with my, my pre K. Daughter. So she had a book fair. We all love the Scholastic news Book Fair. Right. So she had a book fair, she wanted to get a level reader because she's learning to read. It's cool. To take. Make sure you know,
42:34
Dr. Lauren, you froze again? Oh, gosh, well, back to the Scholastic Book Fair. Okay. All right. So, I mean, is what a pain because your brain is on one track? And I'm like,
42:47
No, it's fine. So my daughter had her Scholastic Book Fair, right. And so she wanted to get a reader. And of course, she were talking, well, you're in pre K. So she's like, that's his pre K, can I get that? So it's a level reader. So she gets home. And it's not appropriate. I mean, there are words like another and otherwise, I mean, things that she uses vocabulary wise, because wespeak to her that way. But her competence was going down the drain, because she could not,she cannot decode those vowel team words, she just she just didn't know. So then I said, You know what, we're going to work on reading mommy's way. And so I did do 10 minutes of reading with her, she reads decodable, you know, words, the Wilson book, we read thosewords. And then now we're reading sentences. And she's like, this is a sight word I'm learning at school. And then when she tries to guess I'm like, sound it out. And I'm like, mommy's Never gonna give you a word you can't read. And so because I know how to do that, I can assess her. But I feel like parents want nothing but the best for their child. So they're gonna go get thoseleveled readers, and then they're going to see their child struggling, and then that's going toturn into that self esteem. I can't read this. I'm in first grade. So I don't, I don't know. I think it is difficult for parents to know how to assess unless they are training practitioners orprofessionals.
44:05
Right? Correct. But I'm wondering, just through this conversation here is just that, thinkingabout as a parent, you know, where do you see your child's struggle? Do they know sightwords? Are they reading something and don't have an understanding of, of what they just read, words? Are they reading something and don t have an understanding of, of what they just read, or just some really general sense of kind of identifying where those struggles are? Whether it'sin math, you know, where that break down? And just so that when you go to the school, youhave some sort of information? And then how, how long is it taking them to do their homeworkso that you have some sort of data to bring to the school to say, all right there, break down intears every time they see a math sheet, and they have no idea of the concept of what some ormean or median or we you know, wherever that is, and you know, kind of going across theboard from young to old, but you know, I don't think they visualize when they're reading, orthey have a real hard time formulating slots to put into a paragraph. So I think kind of justtaking a pause and saying, Where is that breakdown instead of coming to the school and sayingthey're having troubles?

45:14
Yeah, no, no, that's I think that's excellent. And as you were talking, I was thinking, I mean, Ihad a student where we had to tell him no more than 20 minutes on homework, because he would spend like three hours because of his processing, because of his perfection,perfectionism. And it was literally like, Nope, that's the data we have right there. Because the dad was just like, it's a fight every night. And I'm like, it should not take you three hours to do five problems and you need downtime.
45:43
No, no, no, no, for sure. Absolutely. Exactly. And it just really kind of honoring that space for the child. Can you share a recent or even not recent success stories of how your services haveimpacted students and or teachers, parents staff?
46:02
Yeah, absolutely. I had a student this summer. So I'm going to preface this by saying when youhave Orton Gillingham tutoring on a consistent basis, you see, you see more growth, you reallydo. So I, this this young student came to me eager to learn wanted to really read was a risingsecond grader loved their energy. And I saw the student four days a week, and this student, notonly have the confidence, but improve their literacy, their fluency from day one. And I tutor them I think for it was two months. And this was a whole summer and went up like 40 words per minute. And it was amazing it and it was it was really, in the in the parents, they did thecoaching, they were very new to this journey. They they literally just got their site. The mom found me the mom was a teacher, she was vocal in Maryland, and was like, I work with highschoolers. I don't know what to do. So I basically coach them through, here's what we're going to do. Here's where we're gonna set up when you guys get on the call this is for you ask meany questions, and they utilize that those resources, and their child had a thirst for knowledge.So they were ready to learn every time we had those sessions. And so that was just like the perfect storm of success where they wanted to learn. I brought the lessons I pushedappropriately, and they made the leaps and gains and it was it was amazing. I mean, really, that was the start of me. And this is when I first started my tutoring, educational consultingbusiness, you know, I was just like, where's this gonna go? What what service can I provide?That is a success. And it was a success. And I've had other students as well, where it's just been. It's it's it's a lot of work, but it's very rewarding. And I know you understand that.

47:53
What's life changing for kids? Yes, life changing. I mean, every like you said you need to know how to read and write. And I always say swim as well. That's my guess. But you do and it's life changing. So you've mentioned a couple of times Orton Gillingham or OD tutoring. And so for folks that are listening that don't know what that is, can you just give a quick little what is it?And then if folks are seeking that support, what should they ask when calling to find the rightsupport for their child?
48:23
Okay, so this is a loaded question. And actually, I just did a podcast interview yesterday withone of my colleagues and friends who's an Orton Gillingham fellow about some of this. So in summary, Orton Gillingham is is so there were two people over 100 years ago, Dr. Samuel Orton and Anna Gillingham. Basically as a team, they realized this multi sensory approach wasthe best way to teach the Dyslexic brain. So that's a quick summary. You can go to the academy website, look up all the history, all that good stuff. One thing I will say is there is adifference between a trained Orton Gillingham practitioner through the academy versussomeone who says they're trained. Now, the best way to put it is Orton Gillingham is in the public domain. So anyone can say they are OG Trent. But parents kind of slip into that rabbit hole of like, oh, you're good. You're OG train. This is great. And I've seen this happen, wherethey will have an OG tutor and then they'll realize my child's not making the progress that thisis claiming to do. And so, you know, these are parents I've spoken to and I would ask him, Isaid, Well, were they through the academy, and more than likely they weren't. The difference is because we go through practicum I'm sorry, we go through coursework, and then we havepracticum. So currently, right now I'm working on my certified level, which is 100 hours ofcoursework and 200 hours of student practicum work. So I need a phonics student and amorphology student and the earliest that I could apply for this certification is in two years. So it is an investment and it is literally a craft So if you're sitting here listening like I have to get atrue Orton Gillingham trained practitioner tutor, what you want to do is you want to go to theOrton Gillingham academy.org. And you want to call them up or email them and say, can yousend me a list of the OG tutors in my area? And that is the best way to know that they're therethrough the academy, not just I Googled someone and they say they're OG trained.
50:25
Perfect. It is, and just ensure that you're getting somebody that really understands the nuances. Yes, how to support those nuances and how to articulate those to the parent as you do. So as we're wrapping up, what is your favorite productivity tool or resource?
50:45
My favorite productivity tool? Alright, so is this for students? Is this?
50 50

50:50
It could be for students, it could be for parents, it could be for school systems? That could be,you know, from making your separate tomorrow night? Um,
51:03
okay, that is a really general question. I'm trying to think, you know, I think the first thing thatcame to mind was for students, and it's because I had a tutoring client last night. And the simplicity of teaching reading. And the little things that get kids going is just it warms my heart.I mean, I just brought out the rice. And this little child was just so like, and the quote of the night was, this is so satisfying. Like, I just loved how she was so excited to learn. And it was just amazing. And I was like, You know what, this is awesome. Like, I love how I've been using the same tools for over 10 years. And it really is about the expertise and bringing that energy and knowledge. But I mean, that that's productivity at its best, and then just doing othermultisensory thing. So that was the first thing that came to my mind, because I was thinkingabout the student I tutored last night, or when you're
51:57
wrapping up a session, and the students like, oh, my gosh, that went so fast. I can't wait to the next week, I need more of you. And you're like, oh,
52:08
know, that is the best feeling to you knowing that at school, they're probably not saying that.
52:14
No. So what should I have asked that I didn't know enough to ask.
52:20
You know, honestly, I think this conversation was great, because we were all over the place ingood ways.
52:26
I hope. So I think we were all over the place. So I'm hoping it gets threads through with our show notes to bring together. But that is the excitement that you and I clearly have that we'relike, Well, wait, how about this? And what about this? So is there anything that I should haveasked in your expertise that I did not ask? No,
52 46

52:46
I don't think so. I mean, this is really the first, if I can think about I think this is really the firstpodcast interview I've done about discount Lea, I mean, I've talked about it on my show, butnot like an interview, it was just me disseminating information. So
53:01
I definitely feel like I need a follow up on this. I feel like we just kind of brushed I know, started to brush the surface of what it is. But I definitely need a deeper deeper dive of to how tosupport because I feel like parents and professionals are probably leaving with more questions,but at least it's starting the process and the conversation. What would it be? And why if you could have a billboard with one tip for parents.
53:35
One tip for parents. I'm going to go with the theme of when I've interviewed moms and whatthey commonly say go with your gut. Go with your gut, like you are the expert of your child.And you may not see them during the day, you know when they're at school, but you see themwhen they come home. And if something doesn't feel right, then go with your gut and
53:59
go with your gut. Yep, I say that all the time. Where can folks find you?
54:04
So my website is think dyslexia.me. And I'm on Instagram at the Dr. Lauren and I do have a podcast called dyslexia mom boss podcast. And I have some subscriptions that I'm super excited about. And I have a parent community that is in a soft launch right now but it will reallypick up December 1. There are some moms in the community along with some serviceproviders and it is pretty affordable. It's $15 a month and I will be giving out content once a month. Newsletters once a month and group calls once a month which I love connecting withpeople for $15.
54:41
Right? How do people find your membership?
54:46
Yes. Okay. So if you actually go to my website, there's a little tab that says membership or youcan go to think dyslexia.subcut.com Okay, yeah.

54:58
And what a great space to have ask questions, get answers have access to you as aprofessional and other service providers, and truly as a parent to not feel alone and that whichis incredible. Every parent needs not to feel alone and their journey and supporting their childand to have a community that can surround you in this process is invaluable. I agree. Thank you so much. This was quite a pleasure. I feel like like we have said, we just kind of got the tip of the iceberg. And what to do. Is there anything other resources that we can throw out therefor folks that are listening that you have?
55:45
I do have some courses, and I believe you can find that on my website. So I do have one about understanding dyscalculia. So I break down all the signs and symptoms, I talked about accommodations. It's I think it's about two hours. But it's chunked because I'm all about chunking information. So check out my courses, I have some multi sensory teaching Englishcourses of I think for maybe like six or seven courses on there. I do need to have one on dysgraphia. I know that that's definitely a need, but it's in the works.
56:14
It's in the works. Well, thank you so much for joining us today. And I really had a fabulous time chit chatting and I do feel like we're kindred spirits on this. supporting families. So thank you so very much.
56:27
Thanks, Wendy for having me. You bet. All right.