1 00:00:07,610 --> 00:00:10,600 KATE MARTIN: Hello and welcome to the National trust Podcast, 2 00:00:10,710 --> 00:00:13,550 I’m Kate Martin, lead ranger in the North West. 3 00:00:13,560 --> 00:00:17,299 Today we’re heading to a covert National Trust nature reserves 4 00:00:17,309 --> 00:00:20,879 in the south east, to explore a strange and treeless landscape, 5 00:00:20,889 --> 00:00:23,430 rich with rare animals and ancient monuments. 6 00:00:23,850 --> 00:00:27,340 Known locally as the island of secrets, we’re going to find out 7 00:00:27,350 --> 00:00:30,940 what surprises lurk hidden away on this East Anglian shingle 8 00:00:30,950 --> 00:00:31,430 spit. 9 00:00:38,840 --> 00:00:43,580 It's an absolutely glorious day here today in Orford. The sun’s 10 00:00:43,590 --> 00:00:47,430 shining. There's a gentle, warm breeze and ripples over the 11 00:00:47,439 --> 00:00:50,970 water and the little boats are just bobbing round in front of 12 00:00:50,979 --> 00:00:54,229 me. And I'm waiting to meet Glen, who is actually a fellow 13 00:00:54,240 --> 00:00:55,049 Ranger. 14 00:00:55,250 --> 00:00:57,310 And he's going to take me on the ferry that’s going to cross this 15 00:00:57,319 --> 00:01:00,740 small stretch of water to Orford ness nature reserve. 16 00:01:01,009 --> 00:01:03,860 So I'm just looking out for Glen now, and in fact here he 17 00:01:03,869 --> 00:01:05,550 comes... 18 00:01:05,550 --> 00:01:06,540 Ahoy there Glen! 19 00:01:06,870 --> 00:01:07,550 GLEN PEARCE: Hiya Kate! 20 00:01:07,669 --> 00:01:10,449 KATE MARTIN: I've always wanted to visit Orford Ness so I'm so 21 00:01:10,459 --> 00:01:11,699 excited about this today. 22 00:01:11,709 --> 00:01:14,580 GLEN PEARCE: It's a very special location so come aboard. This is 23 00:01:14,589 --> 00:01:15,839 the Octavia... Fantastic! 24 00:01:15,849 --> 00:01:17,510 KATE MARTIN: Well named! Right, I shall come and join you. 25 00:01:17,519 --> 00:01:19,530 GLEN PEARCE: So welcome to nearly Orford Ness! 26 00:01:19,530 --> 00:01:21,660 Orford Ness itself is just the other side of the river. A short 27 00:01:21,764 --> 00:01:24,464 two to three minute crossing across. If you just keep all 28 00:01:24,474 --> 00:01:26,325 arms and legs inside the boat. 29 00:01:26,325 --> 00:01:29,264 In the unlikely event we need it, lifejackets are at the front 30 00:01:29,525 --> 00:01:33,764 and emergency exits are here over the sides. So sit back, 31 00:01:33,775 --> 00:01:35,132 enjoy and we’ll get you across to the other side! 32 00:01:35,132 --> 00:01:49,894 KATE MARTIN: Oh, lovely! 33 00:01:49,894 --> 00:01:52,690 There's a sort sign in front of me, which is quite foreboding 34 00:01:52,699 --> 00:01:55,129 really. It says Government property, private landing. 35 00:01:55,370 --> 00:01:59,599 Authorized Persons Only, which umm- I don't know if I'm 36 00:01:59,610 --> 00:02:02,089 authorized or not, but I'm here now, so let's get going. 37 00:02:02,580 --> 00:02:04,089 GLEN PEARCE: So kate, I'll leave you to explore. 38 00:02:04,199 --> 00:02:06,529 Here's a map. So if you'd like to follow the trail along, the 39 00:02:06,540 --> 00:02:09,070 red trail, it goes right past the ranger's office. We'll have 40 00:02:09,080 --> 00:02:12,220 the kettle on there for you. And all I'll say is, do mind your 41 00:02:12,470 --> 00:02:12,490 step. 42 00:02:12,500 --> 00:02:15,089 KATE MARTIN: Okay, that sounds really ominous, but I shall. 43 00:02:19,360 --> 00:02:22,449 So I've been officially abandoned in the wilds of 44 00:02:22,460 --> 00:02:26,380 Suffolk. But it's actually quite a strange feeling here because 45 00:02:26,389 --> 00:02:28,479 you know, I turn around and there's a sign saying Orford 46 00:02:28,710 --> 00:02:30,960 Ness, National Nature Reserve. But actually the landscape I've 47 00:02:30,970 --> 00:02:33,160 got into is quite industrial looking. 48 00:02:34,220 --> 00:02:39,240 It’s an eerie, eerie place this, it really is. But I can already 49 00:02:39,250 --> 00:02:41,669 tell this is going to be an amazing place for wildlife. 50 00:02:44,050 --> 00:02:47,490 ANDREW CAPELL: Orford Ness is such a special place for various 51 00:02:47,500 --> 00:02:48,750 amounts of wildlife. 52 00:02:48,759 --> 00:02:52,919 I'm Andrew Capell and i’m the Area Ranger for Orford Ness. 53 00:02:52,919 --> 00:02:56,610 There are several habitats, we’ve got the grass grazing 54 00:02:56,619 --> 00:03:01,419 areas, the marshlands, vegetated shingle, the derelict buildings 55 00:03:01,429 --> 00:03:04,809 that are home to quite a few birds, beetles as well nest in 56 00:03:04,820 --> 00:03:07,850 the decayed wood and around these structures. 57 00:03:07,850 --> 00:03:11,779 We've got various sorts of animals ranging from red data 58 00:03:11,789 --> 00:03:15,690 book species. We've got our rare birds that we might see flying 59 00:03:15,699 --> 00:03:20,179 around on a visit. And one of our rarest animals... 60 00:03:20,850 --> 00:03:24,600 Is one of our sheep. They’re the Whitefaced Woodlands, category 61 00:03:24,610 --> 00:03:26,130 three endangered animal. 62 00:03:26,139 --> 00:03:29,350 They're kind of like on a similar level to orangutans, 63 00:03:29,360 --> 00:03:33,130 great white sharks and all these animals that you see David 64 00:03:33,139 --> 00:03:36,800 Attenborough going around- your lowland mountain gorillas. 65 00:03:36,809 --> 00:03:38,690 Sheep are the last thing you're going to think of as being 66 00:03:38,699 --> 00:03:39,589 endangered. 67 00:03:43,660 --> 00:03:46,509 KATE MARTIN: When you first sort of stop and look out across this 68 00:03:46,520 --> 00:03:49,339 landscape, it can look, I think, at first sight, a little bit 69 00:03:49,350 --> 00:03:53,360 bland, you know, it looks very yellowy, very browny, but 70 00:03:53,360 --> 00:03:56,119 actually if you sort of get in close, you can see a real 71 00:03:56,130 --> 00:03:57,470 variety of colour. 72 00:03:57,479 --> 00:04:00,789 There is obviously the greens and the yellows of the grasses, 73 00:04:00,800 --> 00:04:05,889 but there's also lovely russety orange colours, there’s pinks, 74 00:04:05,899 --> 00:04:07,270 there’s purples. 75 00:04:07,570 --> 00:04:15,339 What is interesting here is the lack of bird sound really. Bird 76 00:04:15,350 --> 00:04:18,410 calls bird song, you know, the sort of chirrup of a robin or 77 00:04:18,420 --> 00:04:22,540 the call of a thrush or a Blackbird, those usual sort of 78 00:04:22,679 --> 00:04:27,799 garden birds almost, to sort of have that missing makes it even 79 00:04:27,809 --> 00:04:29,600 stranger I think this landscape. 80 00:04:30,000 --> 00:04:32,779 But I'm sure there's plenty of bird life. I'll just get my 81 00:04:32,790 --> 00:04:35,295 binoculars out, have a scan round and see if I can see if I 82 00:04:35,295 --> 00:04:39,350 can see anything exciting. 83 00:04:39,350 --> 00:04:42,950 Aww that’s a Black Headed Gull, not with its black head, 84 00:04:42,959 --> 00:04:44,079 actually this time of year. 85 00:04:44,089 --> 00:04:47,869 So little red legs smaller than the Herring Gull or the Lesser 86 00:04:47,880 --> 00:04:48,739 Black Back. 87 00:04:48,750 --> 00:04:50,959 Actually you usually see a few of these together, so it's quite 88 00:04:50,970 --> 00:04:54,119 strange to see one by itself. It's just pacing around, it's 89 00:04:54,130 --> 00:04:56,170 looking a little bit lost and lonely, like it's waiting for 90 00:04:56,179 --> 00:04:56,739 its mates. 91 00:04:58,390 --> 00:05:01,890 There’s a lovely Kestrel just over to our left hand side that 92 00:05:01,899 --> 00:05:05,859 keeps flying up and, hovering and then diving. So probably 93 00:05:05,869 --> 00:05:09,679 some poor little vole or field mouse getting munched for 94 00:05:09,690 --> 00:05:11,748 Kestrel breakfast at the moment. 95 00:05:11,748 --> 00:05:16,429 There’s three Oyster Catchers just flying ahead in front of 96 00:05:16,440 --> 00:05:19,480 us, two together and then one of its own that's calling the other 97 00:05:19,489 --> 00:05:22,964 is like, “Let me in I want to be part of your group! ” Ah they 98 00:05:22,964 --> 00:05:24,061 have joined up together now. 99 00:05:24,061 --> 00:05:28,529 Oyster Catchers are only ever in beautiful places so I know I’m 100 00:05:28,540 --> 00:05:29,359 somewhere lovely. 101 00:05:29,489 --> 00:05:31,760 There's something over the far side that looks a little bit 102 00:05:31,769 --> 00:05:35,670 bigger. Might be a Heron or something of that ilk just a 103 00:05:35,679 --> 00:05:37,609 little bit too far away. 104 00:05:38,220 --> 00:05:40,510 Oh, no, it's taken off. It's a Wood Pigeon. That was slightly 105 00:05:40,519 --> 00:05:43,149 less exciting than I was hoping! 106 00:05:44,350 --> 00:05:47,019 Even without trees, Wood Pigeons get everywhere. 107 00:05:52,549 --> 00:05:59,149 So far, the walk's been along a sort of tarmac track and it 108 00:05:59,160 --> 00:06:03,309 feels really, really safe. But I'm mindful that Glen said, that 109 00:06:03,320 --> 00:06:07,290 we really need to watch where we put our feet, and it makes me 110 00:06:07,299 --> 00:06:10,579 wonder if there's something possibly not under the track 111 00:06:10,589 --> 00:06:15,160 we’re on maybe or maybe somewhere else that might be a 112 00:06:15,170 --> 00:06:16,820 little bit dangerous. 113 00:06:17,130 --> 00:06:21,709 It just has this feeling of an abandoned village that, you 114 00:06:21,720 --> 00:06:24,380 know, literally people have just dropped everything and left very 115 00:06:24,390 --> 00:06:27,589 much like the sort of legends of the Mary Celeste, that kind of 116 00:06:27,600 --> 00:06:30,910 just left everything and walked away and then nature and the 117 00:06:30,920 --> 00:06:33,140 elements have taken over. 118 00:06:33,730 --> 00:06:37,579 So I think really we need to catch up with Glen and find out 119 00:06:38,450 --> 00:06:40,820 what this place is all about cause It's very strange, but 120 00:06:40,829 --> 00:06:43,510 before we do that, we have to dodge these sheep. I've just 121 00:06:43,519 --> 00:06:45,290 walked across the road in front of us. 122 00:06:48,470 --> 00:06:49,200 Hello, Glen! 123 00:06:50,519 --> 00:06:52,963 This is a very snazzy ranger's office! 124 00:06:52,963 --> 00:06:55,049 GLEN PEARCE: Hello, would you like a cup of tea? 125 00:06:55,049 --> 00:06:55,529 KATE MARTIN: Oh, I'd love a cup of tea. 126 00:06:57,070 --> 00:07:03,299 So how did this- firstly, come to be a nature reserve? Come to 127 00:07:03,309 --> 00:07:05,739 be looked after by the National Trust? It's such a strange 128 00:07:05,750 --> 00:07:06,260 place. 129 00:07:07,410 --> 00:07:11,179 GLEN PEARCE: It's always been a fairly remote and protected 130 00:07:11,190 --> 00:07:13,510 place, really going back to medieval times where there was 131 00:07:13,519 --> 00:07:14,670 cattle grazing here. 132 00:07:14,670 --> 00:07:17,570 Being just that short distance across the river. It was always 133 00:07:17,579 --> 00:07:20,940 a bit on its own, it was always a bit secluded, so always had 134 00:07:20,950 --> 00:07:22,519 sort of that air of mystery about it. 135 00:07:23,160 --> 00:07:27,029 The Trust bought the site back in 1993. Prior to that, it had 136 00:07:27,040 --> 00:07:29,029 been owned for 80 years by the military. 137 00:07:29,679 --> 00:07:33,660 They started in 1913. So we went through the First World War into 138 00:07:33,670 --> 00:07:36,339 the Second World War and then onto the Cold War. 139 00:07:36,600 --> 00:07:39,794 And work sort of in between those periods as well. So- 140 00:07:39,794 --> 00:07:41,835 KATE MARTIN: Yeah, so it was constantly used by them? 141 00:07:41,835 --> 00:07:45,959 GLEN PEARCE: A real, real site of research, innovation and 142 00:07:46,640 --> 00:07:48,570 exploring really new stuff here. 143 00:07:51,350 --> 00:07:53,619 KATE MARTIN: I mean, you were saying when we started off when 144 00:07:53,630 --> 00:07:56,519 we got off the jetty, you know to watch where i’m putting my 145 00:07:56,529 --> 00:07:56,959 feet? 146 00:07:57,100 --> 00:08:00,220 GLEN PEARCE: We talk to visitors about the need not to walk 147 00:08:00,230 --> 00:08:02,760 across the shingle. And it's quite a difficult story to tell. 148 00:08:02,769 --> 00:08:04,809 People think, how can shingle be fragile? 149 00:08:04,820 --> 00:08:07,660 But then you talk about, you know, those microscopic 150 00:08:08,054 --> 00:08:11,005 organisms, moisture and root systems in those that one 151 00:08:11,015 --> 00:08:14,084 footstep and you’re destroying plants that have taken or ridges 152 00:08:14,095 --> 00:08:15,515 that have taken thousands of years to form. 153 00:08:15,524 --> 00:08:20,144 That's part of the story. The other reason is that 80 years of 154 00:08:20,154 --> 00:08:23,255 military use of the site, lots of unexploded ordnance 155 00:08:23,265 --> 00:08:24,654 potentially still on site. 156 00:08:25,049 --> 00:08:27,959 It's quite difficult when you see now this virtually empty 157 00:08:27,970 --> 00:08:28,589 landscape. 158 00:08:28,600 --> 00:08:31,910 We know at the peak, you know, 600 - 1000 people were working 159 00:08:31,920 --> 00:08:34,780 here. So it was, you know, a big site. 160 00:08:35,039 --> 00:08:36,859 KATE MARTIN: And of guess it was quite secretive as well. If it's 161 00:08:36,869 --> 00:08:39,340 doing research, it must have been sort of, you know, if you 162 00:08:39,349 --> 00:08:42,890 worked here, you couldn't go out and tell your family what you 163 00:08:42,900 --> 00:08:43,429 were doing? 164 00:08:43,520 --> 00:08:45,150 GLEN PEARCE: Yeah, very secretive. It's been known 165 00:08:45,159 --> 00:08:48,200 locally for generations as the Island of Secrets. And those 166 00:08:48,210 --> 00:08:52,439 secrets, we are only still just beginning to know some of them. 167 00:08:52,439 --> 00:08:55,130 KATE MARTIN: How'd you find out about the site? If it's all so 168 00:08:55,140 --> 00:08:55,799 secretive? 169 00:08:56,030 --> 00:08:57,789 GLEN PEARCE: I think I've got just the man that can tell you 170 00:08:57,799 --> 00:09:00,830 that. I'd like to introduce you to Angus Wainwright, who is our 171 00:09:00,840 --> 00:09:03,290 regional archaeologist for the National Trust. 172 00:09:03,290 --> 00:09:04,369 KATE MARTIN: Hello Angus! 173 00:09:04,369 --> 00:09:04,909 ANGUS WAINWRIGHT: Hiya! 174 00:09:04,940 --> 00:09:06,080 KATE MARTIN: I can get up! I'm Kate. 175 00:09:06,080 --> 00:09:07,469 ANGUS WAINWRIGHT: Great to meet you! 176 00:09:07,479 --> 00:09:08,179 KATE MARTIN: You, too! 177 00:09:08,190 --> 00:09:11,200 So I believe you're going to take me out and explain all 178 00:09:11,210 --> 00:09:12,969 these weird and wonderful buildings. 179 00:09:12,979 --> 00:09:14,929 ANGUS WAINWRIGHT: Yeah, exactly. I don't think it's worth talking 180 00:09:14,940 --> 00:09:17,700 about in here. So let's get out and have a look at them on the 181 00:09:17,710 --> 00:09:18,099 ground. 182 00:09:21,059 --> 00:09:24,780 KATE MARTIN: Angus has brought me up and over a big steel 183 00:09:24,789 --> 00:09:29,450 bridge, over a creek. And this is different again from the 184 00:09:29,460 --> 00:09:34,179 areas we've seen so far here at Orford Ness and this area is 185 00:09:34,190 --> 00:09:37,640 almost desert like for want of a better word. 186 00:09:37,650 --> 00:09:40,159 ANGUS WAINWRIGHT: You're right to mention a desert like 187 00:09:40,169 --> 00:09:43,520 landscape because it is about as near to a desert as you'll find 188 00:09:43,530 --> 00:09:44,869 in the British Isles. 189 00:09:45,000 --> 00:09:48,419 KATE MARTIN: So we've just come to this square almost sort of 190 00:09:48,429 --> 00:09:51,520 concrete and brick built building, and it's got a metal 191 00:09:51,530 --> 00:09:53,880 staircase going up one side of it. 192 00:09:53,890 --> 00:09:56,274 So are we go in up to the top, Angus? 193 00:09:56,274 --> 00:09:56,533 ANGUS WAINWRIGHT: Yeah, we'll go up to the top. 194 00:09:56,533 --> 00:09:57,039 KATE MARTIN: Amazing! 195 00:09:57,039 --> 00:09:59,580 ANGUS WAINWRIGHT: And have a look, you get a brilliant view 196 00:09:59,590 --> 00:10:00,860 of everything from up here. 197 00:10:00,860 --> 00:10:01,070 KATE MARTIN: Fantastic. 198 00:10:05,159 --> 00:10:06,005 Oh my word. 199 00:10:06,979 --> 00:10:12,960 What a strange place! What an odd landscape! It feels like I'm 200 00:10:12,969 --> 00:10:13,640 on the moon! 201 00:10:18,099 --> 00:10:20,030 ANGUS WAINWRIGHT: So this building here had high speed 202 00:10:20,039 --> 00:10:24,489 cameras in it recording the flights of a bomb from when it 203 00:10:24,500 --> 00:10:29,960 left the aircraft to when it splashed in the sea over there. 204 00:10:29,969 --> 00:10:32,694 And if you look to the right, you could see a big pit. 205 00:10:32,694 --> 00:10:33,190 KATE MARTIN: Yeah a big hole! 206 00:10:34,070 --> 00:10:34,900 ANGUS WAINWRIGHT: Can you guess what that is? 207 00:10:34,900 --> 00:10:38,349 KATE MARTIN: Is it a bomb crater? 208 00:10:39,510 --> 00:10:39,682 ANGUS WAINWRIGHT: That is! That's a bomb crater. 209 00:10:39,682 --> 00:10:39,694 KATE MARTIN: That came close! 210 00:10:39,694 --> 00:10:41,789 ANGUS WAINWRIGHT: That came close. You know, it just shows 211 00:10:41,799 --> 00:10:44,909 that although this was military experimentation, it was 212 00:10:44,919 --> 00:10:48,244 dangerous work even for the boffins who were here. 213 00:10:48,484 --> 00:10:51,217 KATE MARTIN: So we see lots of strange buildings round here. 214 00:10:51,217 --> 00:10:55,284 This one just sort of directly in front of us. That looks like 215 00:10:55,544 --> 00:10:58,935 an old windmill. Is that what it is? 216 00:10:58,935 --> 00:11:01,955 ANGUS WAINWRIGHT: It does look like an old windmill. But 217 00:11:01,965 --> 00:11:05,234 actually, what we call it the black beacon, and that's our 218 00:11:05,534 --> 00:11:07,825 next target. So we're going to walk out there now. 219 00:11:07,825 --> 00:11:08,445 KATE MARTIN: Sounds Sinister! 220 00:11:10,859 --> 00:11:14,020 This feels a bit Game of Thrones I think round here. 221 00:11:14,020 --> 00:11:17,320 There's a sort of tree to the right of it, which is like 222 00:11:17,330 --> 00:11:21,239 completely dead and gnarly and this big black tower in front of 223 00:11:21,250 --> 00:11:23,549 us, It does feel like this should be a dragon sat on top of 224 00:11:23,559 --> 00:11:23,739 it. 225 00:11:23,750 --> 00:11:27,960 ANGUS WAINWRIGHT: Yeah. So this is a late 1920s experiment. So 226 00:11:27,969 --> 00:11:32,510 it had a rotating radio beacon, and it's a big aerial rotating 227 00:11:32,520 --> 00:11:36,320 round inside this thing that looks like a windmill. 228 00:11:36,630 --> 00:11:39,650 And it was a navigation beacon. So it was really like a sort of 229 00:11:39,659 --> 00:11:45,130 radio lighthouse. And then later on it got used for work on the 230 00:11:45,340 --> 00:11:46,280 atomic bomb. 231 00:11:46,289 --> 00:11:48,640 KATE MARTIN: So you're telling me actual nuclear bombs were 232 00:11:48,650 --> 00:11:49,440 dropped over there? 233 00:11:49,809 --> 00:11:52,969 ANGUS WAINWRIGHT: Yes. In the sea. Not with their nuclear 234 00:11:52,979 --> 00:11:53,029 bits! 235 00:11:53,029 --> 00:11:53,229 KATE MARTIN: I was gonna say! 236 00:11:54,380 --> 00:11:56,460 ANGUS WAINWRIGHT: They were dummy nuclear bombs. So they 237 00:11:56,469 --> 00:12:00,690 were the same shape and size and weight, but with nothing inside. 238 00:12:00,710 --> 00:12:03,450 So they were looking at the ballistic properties of the 239 00:12:03,460 --> 00:12:04,210 bombs. 240 00:12:06,849 --> 00:12:10,400 Okay, Kate, I think it's time to go and look at the big buildings 241 00:12:10,409 --> 00:12:16,359 over here. These are the atomic weapons laboratories. 242 00:12:16,359 --> 00:12:20,859 We want to sort of- people when they come here to appreciate 243 00:12:20,969 --> 00:12:24,500 change in nature. You know, we're watching manmade 244 00:12:24,510 --> 00:12:29,840 structures disappear back into nature, if you like, the sort of 245 00:12:29,849 --> 00:12:33,979 memorials to the Cold War just gradually crumbling in front of 246 00:12:33,989 --> 00:12:34,289 us. 247 00:12:34,539 --> 00:12:39,210 I mean, we've taken a sort of a bold decision really here, not 248 00:12:39,219 --> 00:12:42,929 to intervene at all on these structures we're just walking up 249 00:12:42,940 --> 00:12:45,520 to now, despite their significance. 250 00:12:45,659 --> 00:12:48,799 You know, these are actually scheduled ancient monuments now. 251 00:12:49,309 --> 00:12:53,619 So they're the equivalent of Stonehenge in national 252 00:12:53,630 --> 00:12:55,195 significance. 253 00:12:55,195 --> 00:12:58,325 KATE MARTIN: That’s amazing! 254 00:12:58,325 --> 00:13:01,822 Right. We going to go in? 255 00:13:01,822 --> 00:13:03,070 ANGUS WAINWRIGHT: Yeah, let's go. We've got to get this 256 00:13:03,080 --> 00:13:03,830 padlock off. 257 00:13:03,830 --> 00:13:11,830 KATE MARTIN: These huge sort of metal mesh doors look Massive. 258 00:13:12,270 --> 00:13:13,239 How weird! 259 00:13:13,250 --> 00:13:24,330 ANGUS WAINWRIGHT: If you come down to this next gate, we can 260 00:13:24,330 --> 00:13:24,333 look inside. 261 00:13:24,333 --> 00:13:24,338 KATE MARTIN: Oh, my word! 262 00:13:24,338 --> 00:13:26,580 Oh, you can still see the strip lighting and everything. 263 00:13:27,570 --> 00:13:27,859 ANGUS WAINWRIGHT: Yeah. 264 00:13:28,299 --> 00:13:30,219 KATE MARTIN: It’s smaller than I thought it would be from the 265 00:13:30,229 --> 00:13:30,919 outside. 266 00:13:30,929 --> 00:13:33,369 ANGUS WAINWRIGHT: Can you see on the right hand side a big water 267 00:13:33,409 --> 00:13:38,890 filled pit? So that's where the atomic bomb would be mounted. So 268 00:13:38,900 --> 00:13:43,520 this was used for vibration tests and drop tests. 269 00:13:43,700 --> 00:13:48,580 So what Orford Ness was about was just going through those 270 00:13:48,820 --> 00:13:52,780 environmental tests to try to put the bomb through all the 271 00:13:53,119 --> 00:13:57,760 rigors that it might go through. So vibrations, shocks, heat, 272 00:13:57,770 --> 00:13:59,969 cold, humidity. 273 00:14:00,479 --> 00:14:04,659 So where we are now in this big pit, the bomb would be lowered 274 00:14:04,669 --> 00:14:08,750 in there and then big vibrating units would be put on to it, 275 00:14:08,760 --> 00:14:12,780 which would shake it around for a long period, and then it would 276 00:14:12,789 --> 00:14:13,580 be taken out. 277 00:14:13,590 --> 00:14:16,280 And then they would test all elec- test all the wiring to 278 00:14:16,289 --> 00:14:17,940 make sure it was still functional. 279 00:14:21,590 --> 00:14:24,650 KATE MARTIN: So that's how big the bomb is? it’s huge! 280 00:14:24,940 --> 00:14:30,090 ANGUS WAINWRIGHT: Well the- for a spy you've just identified a 281 00:14:30,099 --> 00:14:35,590 critical piece of information because that pit is the size of 282 00:14:35,599 --> 00:14:40,390 Britain's first atomic bomb, which was called Blue Danube. 283 00:14:42,520 --> 00:14:45,469 When this was operational. You've got to imagine something 284 00:14:45,479 --> 00:14:47,985 more like a surgical unit. 285 00:14:47,985 --> 00:14:48,219 KATE MARTIN: Okay. 286 00:14:49,070 --> 00:14:51,460 ANGUS WAINWRIGHT: So we've just gone through two. Well, we've 287 00:14:51,469 --> 00:14:53,940 gone through one metal gate. We've been faced by another one 288 00:14:54,130 --> 00:14:57,500 And we can see out the sea. But that originally that would have 289 00:14:57,510 --> 00:15:00,590 a solid door on it. Yeah, another solid door here where 290 00:15:00,599 --> 00:15:05,150 we're standing. So a lorry would come with a bomb in it through 291 00:15:05,159 --> 00:15:06,780 that door into here. 292 00:15:07,309 --> 00:15:11,260 That door will be shut. So the spy ships can't see. The one in 293 00:15:11,270 --> 00:15:13,130 front of us will be closed as well. 294 00:15:13,140 --> 00:15:17,130 Then the bomb would be lifted out on a gantry which has been 295 00:15:17,140 --> 00:15:21,309 taken away. The lorry would go out and then it would be brought 296 00:15:21,320 --> 00:15:23,559 through these doors into the laboratory. 297 00:15:23,690 --> 00:15:26,739 And this is where white coated boffins would be working. It's 298 00:15:26,750 --> 00:15:30,580 all air conditioned, so it wouldn't have nasty salt, salty 299 00:15:30,590 --> 00:15:33,789 air in there, nice even conditions. 300 00:15:33,799 --> 00:15:37,340 It was a clean room, you know, no bits of dust or grit could 301 00:15:37,349 --> 00:15:41,489 get into the electronics. So it's absolutely different to the 302 00:15:41,500 --> 00:15:44,309 kind of derelict state it's in now. 303 00:15:45,580 --> 00:15:47,330 KATE MARTIN: This place is starting to give me a creeps. So 304 00:15:47,340 --> 00:15:48,205 should we get out of here? 305 00:15:48,205 --> 00:15:49,179 ANGUS WAINWRIGHT: Yeah. Let's go! 306 00:15:49,179 --> 00:15:54,283 We'll go on and have a look at one of Orford Ness’ pagodas. 307 00:15:54,283 --> 00:15:56,669 KATE MARTIN: Oh, that sounds very genteel. Is there going to 308 00:15:56,679 --> 00:15:58,530 be tea? Tea and cakes in the pagoda? 309 00:15:58,559 --> 00:16:06,199 ANGUS WAINWRIGHT: I don't think there will be Tea or cake! 310 00:16:06,199 --> 00:16:06,349 KATE MARTIN: Oh that's disappointing! 311 00:16:06,359 --> 00:16:08,169 Coming around this corner Angus they are- 312 00:16:08,169 --> 00:16:13,969 There's two absolutely huge, very, very odd looking 313 00:16:13,979 --> 00:16:19,289 buildings. You've got- it looks like some sort of ancient 314 00:16:19,299 --> 00:16:20,070 temple. 315 00:16:20,440 --> 00:16:21,679 ANGUS WAINWRIGHT: Yeah, yeah, you're right. They do! 316 00:16:21,679 --> 00:16:26,799 They do look like temples. These are locally called the pagodas. 317 00:16:26,809 --> 00:16:30,950 So these are sort of iconic buildings at Orford Ness. So 318 00:16:30,960 --> 00:16:35,090 they’re another couple of labs that were built to work on the 319 00:16:35,099 --> 00:16:37,409 atomic bombs and they've got a different design. 320 00:16:37,419 --> 00:16:38,989 KATE MARTIN: I mean, the one thing we're looking at here is 321 00:16:39,000 --> 00:16:41,900 although we talked about sort of the building itself all going to 322 00:16:41,909 --> 00:16:44,270 rack and ruin and I can see that there's obviously plants are 323 00:16:44,280 --> 00:16:46,799 taking over the shingle, although humans may have 324 00:16:46,809 --> 00:16:50,070 abandoned this, that nature has probably moved in. 325 00:16:50,119 --> 00:16:53,020 ANGUS WAINWRIGHT: Yeah. So you've got some, you know, 326 00:16:53,030 --> 00:16:57,415 really typical shingle beach plants here, these yellow horned 327 00:16:57,415 --> 00:17:01,119 poppies, you know, they're very typical of this kind of habitat 328 00:17:01,130 --> 00:17:02,150 and they've colonized. 329 00:17:02,159 --> 00:17:06,140 But more importantly, we've got a very large gull colony at 330 00:17:06,380 --> 00:17:08,760 Orford Ness, internationally significant. 331 00:17:08,760 --> 00:17:11,650 And some of them nest on top of the roof of this building, kind 332 00:17:11,660 --> 00:17:14,260 of using it as a protected cliff because they're up there away 333 00:17:14,270 --> 00:17:20,818 from the foxes. So nature has used these buildings as kind of 334 00:17:20,838 --> 00:17:22,288 new habitat, I suppose. 335 00:17:22,708 --> 00:17:26,509 KATE MARTIN: It's really amazing Angus, the variety of buildings 336 00:17:26,519 --> 00:17:29,698 that you've shown me today, you know, from the sort of pagodas 337 00:17:29,708 --> 00:17:34,918 behind to those sort of first labs, that weird black beacon to 338 00:17:34,928 --> 00:17:38,239 the ballistics tower, we looked out of at the beginning. 339 00:17:38,249 --> 00:17:42,790 It's just such a strange hodgepodge of- I suppose they’re 340 00:17:42,800 --> 00:17:45,180 all little time capsules in their own little way aren’t 341 00:17:45,189 --> 00:17:45,500 they? 342 00:17:46,050 --> 00:17:49,150 ANGUS WAINWRIGHT: But we've just got one last place that I want 343 00:17:49,160 --> 00:17:51,550 to show you before you go home. 344 00:18:08,680 --> 00:18:09,729 KATE MARTIN: Is it real? 345 00:18:09,760 --> 00:18:10,650 ANGUS WAINWRIGHT: It is. 346 00:18:12,410 --> 00:18:18,630 So this is a nuclear bomb. It's called WE-177. And this was the 347 00:18:18,640 --> 00:18:22,317 final bomb developed at Orford Ness. 348 00:18:22,317 --> 00:18:24,199 KATE MARTIN: That's a lot smaller than that big- 349 00:18:24,689 --> 00:18:28,400 ANGUS WAINWRIGHT: Yeah, but much, much, much more powerful. 350 00:18:28,400 --> 00:18:31,119 In my head when I look at it, you know, the word weapon of 351 00:18:31,130 --> 00:18:34,819 mass destruction, you expect something huge and black and 352 00:18:34,819 --> 00:18:35,760 horrible looking. 353 00:18:36,819 --> 00:18:42,030 But for me, the sort of white painted- it doesn't sort of feel 354 00:18:42,040 --> 00:18:44,439 like a weapon of mass destruction until you kind of 355 00:18:44,449 --> 00:18:47,780 think it through, what it's capable of. 356 00:18:47,930 --> 00:18:49,655 KATE MARTIN: It's very sobering, really, isn't it? 357 00:18:49,655 --> 00:18:52,464 Well, let's think, you know, if this had been let go on somebody 358 00:18:52,464 --> 00:18:59,250 else, they would have let go something else on us. And it's, 359 00:18:59,260 --> 00:19:00,790 you know, that's the thing, isn't it? 360 00:19:00,800 --> 00:19:02,209 ANGUS WAINWRIGHT: We wouldn't be here. 361 00:19:02,219 --> 00:19:06,949 The National Trust wouldn't be here. 362 00:19:06,959 --> 00:19:10,130 So it's, you know, we're provoking a lot of thought with 363 00:19:10,140 --> 00:19:13,859 the exhibition here and having this thing. You know- we've 364 00:19:13,869 --> 00:19:16,810 always said this is the most significant object that the 365 00:19:16,819 --> 00:19:18,609 National Trust has in its care. 366 00:19:18,609 --> 00:19:22,569 KATE MARTIN: I mean, it's been a real roller coaster of emotions 367 00:19:22,900 --> 00:19:26,920 as much as anything else it's been. Yeah, very eye opening. 368 00:19:26,930 --> 00:19:29,550 Thank you very, very much for showing me around. It's been 369 00:19:29,560 --> 00:19:30,439 fascinating. 370 00:19:33,089 --> 00:19:36,180 Just reflecting back on the visit here of Orford ness today, 371 00:19:36,189 --> 00:19:38,479 I don't know quite what was expecting when I arrived. I 372 00:19:38,489 --> 00:19:42,329 think I was very focused on the sort of coastal conservation 373 00:19:42,339 --> 00:19:45,040 side of things, you know, the shingle and the species and 374 00:19:45,040 --> 00:19:47,040 habitats that are there. 375 00:19:47,050 --> 00:19:52,430 I wasn't expecting quite as varied a visit as I've had. 376 00:19:52,439 --> 00:19:56,400 You know, so strange sort of juxtaposition of these very 377 00:19:56,410 --> 00:20:03,869 delicate, fragile habitats and landscape from, you know, the 378 00:20:03,880 --> 00:20:05,189 shingle banks and looking at the salt marshes, stuff like that, 379 00:20:05,199 --> 00:20:11,589 to this really sort of robust looking military history and the 380 00:20:11,599 --> 00:20:16,119 sort of history of Orford ness in the sort of arms race. 381 00:20:16,359 --> 00:20:19,589 It's one of those places where you can, you know, keep 382 00:20:19,599 --> 00:20:23,310 exploring, keep going back to and never have the same 383 00:20:23,319 --> 00:20:24,550 experience twice. 384 00:20:36,290 --> 00:20:39,130 Thanks for listening to this episode of the National Trust 385 00:20:39,140 --> 00:20:42,829 Podcast. If you’d like to learn more about Orford Ness check out 386 00:20:42,839 --> 00:20:45,750 the links in our show notes. And don’t worry you won’t need to 387 00:20:45,760 --> 00:20:48,150 sign the official secrets act if you want to visit. 388 00:20:48,170 --> 00:20:50,719 If you have the time we’d love it if you could leave us a 389 00:20:50,729 --> 00:20:52,930 review of the show on your podcast player. 390 00:20:52,939 --> 00:20:56,150 We’ll be back soon with new episodes and a whole new season. 391 00:20:56,160 --> 00:20:59,119 To be the first to listen make sure you’ve pressed subscribe. 392 00:20:59,390 --> 00:21:02,680 But until then from me Kate Martin and from National Trust 393 00:21:02,689 --> 00:21:04,989 podcast team, thanks and goodbye.