Ben 0:06 Hello, and welcome to Freelance Corner. I'm Ben, and this is Orla.

Orla 0:09 Hi!

Ben 0:10 In each episode, an inspiring freelancer shares their story with us, as well as some insider tips and advice for you in your own freelance career. Nothing is off limits.

Orla 0:19 Today we're speaking to Laura Wallis, founding Director of Debating Mental Health, freelance writer, motivational coach and speaker who is passionate about women's health care, neurodiversity, and community. She'll be speaking to us about her journey into freelancing, women in self employment, her advocacy for healthcare, and influencing change.

Hi, Laura, welcome to the show. It's lovely to have you here.

Laura Wallis 0:43 Thanks for having me.

Ben 0:47 First and foremost, I think our listeners want to understand how you got into freelancing, and what your journey has been like so far.

Laura Wallis 0:53 So I had a quite bouncy non-linear career path, I suppose. And at the time, I was working in a non clinical role in the NHS, saw an opportunity for a project, which I got funding for, for a year, but then it didn't really fit with my job role. So I decided that I wasn't done with that particular project yet. And so I decided to have a go at taking it self employed and see if I can make it work. So I left my job at the NHS and just kind of started trying to figure things out as I went along really.

Ben 1:28 What was it been like? Is it been a bit of a jump into the unknown? Or has it been quite good?

Laura Wallis 1:35 So I've actually got ADHD. So it works really nicely for my kind of thinking style, it works really nicely for being able to focus on projects that I'm really, really passionate about. But the downside of that is having to learn things that lots of people really struggle with around kind of taxes, and the admin and kind of accounts and all of the background stuff that isn't necessarily the reason that we go into self employment. So I think I've definitely struggled with that side. But I think a lot of people struggle with those elements as well.

Orla 2:08 It'd be really interesting to like, hear more about how you've navigated that yourself, and kind of the support that you've had along the way.

Laura Wallis 2:15 Firstly, I've just had to learn by doing so initially, I certainly didn't have the money to kind of outsource. So I think as a new freelancer, or as a new self employed person, a lot of the advice you get is outsource anything that you aren't particularly strong at, and that's great if you've got kind of that spare money, and that that income to drive that, but actually, I didn't, and the majority of people when you start out don't have that. So you have to just learn by doing, and I think speaking to other people kind of going to networking events, using the resources that are available on the internet - you just have to learn to do it yourself initially, but lean on the wider freelance and self employed community for bits of advice and tips here and there where you need it.

Ben 3:02 When I've seen stuff from IPSE members, I think the one thing they hate is that HMRC I think it's HMRC this HMRC that, and I think understanding that takes a while. But if you could go back and talk to yourself, you know, when you're starting out as any like one single tip you would give and say 'you should do this'.

Unknown Speaker 3:20 Yeah, it would be to follow what I think is right, rather than what I'm being told is right by other people who are perhaps further along their journey. So as an example, I was told very early on that I should incorporate, which actually wasn't the right decision at all for where I was and the stage that I was at, and I should have actually just registered to self employed worked as a, as a sole trader for a number of years while I got started, and then looked at whether I was still in the best position there or not. So I think for me, the thing really is to trust what you think and where your organisation or your, your businesses at at the time, and not necessarily blindly take the advice of people who are perhaps a few years ahead of you in their journey just because they're more experienced, because actually every situation is different.

Orla 4:09 Yeah, I think that's a really good point. And you know, as a freelancer myself, I do hear a lot of things in certain, you know, different networks about you should follow somebody who has done what you want to achieve, but you're not quite there yet, and you should kind of you know, follow what they do. But I think it's really important to actually stay true to your own instincts, your guts, believe in yourself and, you know, follow your own instincts, essentially. And also, I know that in your work, you're really passionate about neurodiversity. What is neurodiversity and why do you think it's important to be aware of it?

Unknown Speaker 4:44 This is one of my favourite topics to discuss! So neurodiversity, broadly speaking, is the idea that every human has a different brain, a different wiring and a different way of perceiving and interacting with the world. The neurodiversity movement as a movement focuses on specific neuro identities. So those are kind of certain ways or groups of perceiving the world. So commonly those are autism, ADHD, Tourette's, some people include brain injury and their definition. So it's essentially, people who think in a different way than the majority of people, and I think it's really important to embrace and to understand, because socially, and as a country, we've become very aware of racial inclusion of disability, inclusion, of gender differences, And those are all really, really important, and I'm really pleased that we're making that progress. But we're a little bit behind in terms of having the conversation about including different brain and thinking styles and how we work. And that can be really important in the workplace, because somebody who wants to send emails might be sending emails, because that's how they prefer to think, whereas actually, the person that is receiving those emails thinks better through a conversation. So it's just really important to be aware that actually, we all work slightly differently, that may or may not be a diagnosable reason for that, but that actually, we're all different. We all think differently, and we all like to work differently.

Orla 6:21 I just wanted to pick your brains about what you think about getting a mentor, as a freelancer, and essentially, you know, what is the impact of having a mentor on your self development, and business as a freelancer?

Laura Wallis 6:33 It's something I would have loved, but I think very probably the reason that I have struggled is because of my ADHD. So I have found a few people who have been very open and kind of wanted to talk, but the way that they operate, and the way that they work has been quite different to the way that I see things. So there's been a bit of a clash of not quite personalities, but working styles, I suppose. So I think the thing for me is, I'm actually now seeking an ADHD coach, specifically, because they will understand the way that my brain works, which for me is more important than understanding the way that my business works. Because actually, I've got quite a good grasp of that, that is something I'm quite strong in. But it's actually kind of the operational side in the details and kind of understanding how my own processes work that I need a bit of support with. There's definitely a lot of benefit to be had from finding a mentor, but it needs to be the right match, and it needs to be somebody who kind of either understand your business, if that's what you're after, or understand your working style, if that's what you need to support.

Orla 7:34 I'm just quite curious if there are any useful organisations that you'd recommend for, you know, dealing with ADHD, as well as you know, finding a mentor, as a freelancer?

Laura Wallis 7:46 Um, yes, I think the ADHD, it's not specifically organisations, but the ADHD community on social media is really, really strong and positive. So for instance, hashtags like ask ADHD, or ADHD, Twitter, they're quite useful. Because there's so much content out there from people who are going through the same things, definitely use kind of social media for your benefit for that, and once you start following one or two accounts, then other accounts start becoming obvious, and you can kind of build a community that way. In terms of finding a mentor, I, when I have been looking for mentors previously, I've just been really upfront about it. So I put it everywhere, basically, put it on LinkedIn, I've kind of contacted people who I think might know someone or who would be someone I'd be interested in, and just be really open about the fact that you're looking for someone on every channel that you possibly can bring it up in conversations face to face, not necessarily in a hounding way, but in a just a, I'm open to this. And then people will naturally just start offering their thoughts or their insights as to where you might find someone or if they know anyone.

Orla 8:56 Yeah, that sounds cool. Essentially, you know, just be your authentic self. Just put it out there. Don't be afraid, you know, just go for it.

Absolutely. Yeah. And also think about in that, that position, people won't offer me that help if they don't want to offer me that help. So I'm not actually I'm not taking up someone's time, and forcing them into this because I think particularly if you're younger, or you're quite new to your career, that can be a bit of a worry all you know, this person is really senior, so I don't want to take up too much of their time, but they will not volunteer and they will not put themselves forward if they don't want to help.

Yeah, that's a really good point.

Ben 9:31 Coming to sort of ADHD and everything else, but how does freelancing combat you and your lifestyle in comparison to being in full time employment.

Laura Wallis 9:41 In addition to ADHD, I've actually also got a chronic illness, and I'm a relatively new mum. So freelancing means that I can work at the times that kind of suit me around my health being good, the times that I'm more productive. So with ADHD, typically that isn't any set pattern that can be really spontaneous. Sometimes it might be two o'clock in the afternoon, sometimes it might be eleven o'clock at night, and then with childcare as well, it means that I can work kind of around my husband's work, and we can manage childcare between us. Just gives me a lot more flexibility and a lot more autonomy over how I manage my own time.

Ben 10:20 Yeah, I think we've heard a lot from in our research IPSE, about sort of new mothers, and the fact that a working as a freelancer can help you sort of look after childcare as well as do work and get back into the workforce as well, which I think, you know, is a massive benefit for it. I've never, I've been a parent, but I can imagine, yeah, if you've just become one, you'd just want to go and spend as much time with them as possible.

Laura Wallis 10:47 Yeah. And I think for me, the major benefit was when he was still quite little, and I wasn't ready to go back into kind of full time went by, I was ready to do something because my brain needed it. So at three months old, I was I was doing little bits and pieces here and there that I felt was manageable, but I wasn't kind of working full time again.

Ben 11:05 What barriers do you think still exist for women in business and self employment?

Laura Wallis 11:10 I think one of the major barriers is actually self belief. Because of the way society is structured, because of the way that lots of things work, it's really difficult to believe that we deserve to take up that space for one. But it's also really difficult to accept kind of that good enough is enough, because actually, when you're balancing child care, when you're balancing work, and you've got a family and all the other commitments in life and interests that we all have, that's a lot to balance, and there is no way that all of those will be at the same level that they were before you had a child. So I think there's barriers to feeling like we always have to do everything. And actually, it's quite well known amongst self employed people that, that barrier and that distinction between home life and work life can be really hard to maintain, and that balance can be really difficult. So switching off as is definitely really important and kind of figuring out how to do that, and when to turn your phone off, and when to say actually, I'm not answering emails for a week, because I'm going on holiday and actually doing that.

Orla 12:11 Yeah, and with that in mind, you know, how do you balance childcare along with running your own business, as well as managing, you know, ADHD and chronic illness?

Laura Wallis 12:21 Yeah, so I'm really fortunate that my husband, and actually work shifts. So we work the childcare out between us, which is why we haven't yet had to pay for formal childcare. So that's been a huge benefit. But at the same time, that's been quite stressful, because it means that I don't spend a huge amount of time with my husband, he works, and I'm looking after the child and I work and he's looking after the child. So I think we've recently hit a phase where we've just, it sounds really mundane, but we've started scheduling family time into the calendar, which is somewhere that in my 20s I am before having a child, I never ever thought I would have to shedule specific time with my husband into the calendar! But that is the way that we have to do it, and if it doesn't happen, then one of us ends up taking extra work because that day is free. So yeah, we very much schedule, 'family time' and 'date time'. We also both prioritise taking time for ourselves in the day. So even if that's a 10 minute walk around the block, without the child actually, that's just something that sometimes you just have to do. COVID highlighted actually, the benefits of leaving your house before going to work in the morning for a lot of people and a lot of people started just walking around the block and almost simulating going to work because that psychological space is really, really important.

Ben 13:36 I never missed the central line. But I always went for a walk during the pandemic, and I still do it now just because I get what you mean otherwise, I imagine your brain is probably going stop, stop, you're just doing too much work. You have to go out and actually do something, get your mind off it.

Laura Wallis 13:54 Or getting started in the morning as well. You can you know you've gone from breakfast and cleaning the dishes and kind of housework to suddenly needing to switch to work and actually getting into that work mindset as well as just as important as getting out of it at the end of the day.

Orla 14:09 That's really interesting. I also find that when you're working from home for a large chunk of the week, or perhaps even the whole week. I've personally been going out for a walk or a cycle once the working days over to create a kind of mental barrier between the workspace and personal space, and I find that that change really helps me separate work from personal time.

Laura Wallis 14:30 Yeah, and also to not run over as well. If you set a time I'm going to go for a walk or a cycle at five thirty, six o'clock. That's when you go, and then you're not going to be running over and just think oh, I'll just do this one more thing. I just finished up this email.

Orla 14:44 Yeah, I'm such a culprit of that. I think it's an ongoing practice for me with boundaries and enforcing them. It's really essential, isn't it.

Ben 14:51 Is it harder to do that though? Because if you're you said earlier with ADHD, you have certain work patterns where you said like sometimes you do a very productive morning, or sometimes you're better in the afternoon, is it harder to sort of manage and say, well, I'm going to stop at five o'clock and go for a walk, if you're more productive that day in the afternoon than the morning?

Laura Wallis 15:14 For me personally, so there's something called hyper focus in ADHD, where if you're very, very interested in something, you can maintain focus on that subject or that task for an extended period. And often actually, it means that you forget to eat or take a water break, or whatever. So I tend not to break it down into arbitrary time chunks, I tend to use tasks more. So I'll tend to say, right, I'm going to get this aspect of this project done today. And then I'll, I'll take my break after that, just because I find that that works for my working style and my productivity better. But a lot of people would obviously prefer to take the regular breaks to kind of refresh and get their brain back together. So I think you just need to learn about yourself and understand what works for you. Which isn't always an easy task. And actually, sometimes it's just trial and error. But then when you find the thing that works, it's really important to try and maintain that as much as possible. Obviously, life always crops up sometimes.

Oh, yeah, definitely. I think many a time I've had the delivery driver come in, that's ruined my workflow or, you know, had some random call from some salesperson. I'm like, I'm trying to write or I'm trying to do an email or do this or do that. But yeah, life does get in the way, unfortunately.

Yeah, it's interesting mentioning that, because when I worked in traditional employment, I sometimes quite often found the office environment quite distracting. So, it's quite interesting, the flip side of that.

Ben 16:38 I guess, a baby doesn't help.

Laura Wallis 16:41 Yeah, and trying to think actually, have I got an hour's nap time today? Or have I got two hours nap time? What can I achieve in that time?

Ben 16:48 Coming into sort of more of what you do rather than how you manage your workload. What advice would you give to someone who's looking into becoming a freelance writer? Because obviously, there's so many different sort of avenues freelance writing? How would you tell someone oh, this is how you can get into it?

Laura Wallis 17:04 So I'm extremely new to it. I actually decided in February of this year, that I have always enjoyed writing privately, and I decided that I'm going to have a go at making something of that and see if I can do something with it. So the way that I did it was I actually I found a course because that's how I learned best if I've got kind of something to hold me accountable. So I found a course on starting out as a freelance writer, I took in everything that I could from that I did all of the assignments, it really helped me figure out what I was passionate about and what I wanted to write about, and I think that's the key -is find out, actually, am I quite broadly interested in a lot of things do, I want to just write because I like writing or do I want to write because I want to tell specific stories, figure that out, and then look at the publications that might be ideal for you to work for. And then it's really a case of figuring out how to pitch to them, which is often really available on their website, it's not something that publications, hide publications rely on freelance writers. So if they're looking for pitches that's on their website, they're very open about their guidelines, and what they're looking for. Pitches aren't long, you keep them to a couple of paragraphs. So it's not hugely time consuming, and it gets quicker as you get more into it. Just give it a go. And you will get rejections. And you will not hear from people for weeks on end, because editors are just hugely busy, and they receive hundreds of pitches a day. So just if it's what you want to do, just keep going and you get that first commission, and it feels great. And then because you've been commissioned, you're more likely to be commissioned again. So just keep going hold in mind while you're doing it, and focus on that end goal.

Ben 18:46 No, exactly. I mean, I think, you know, a lot of rejection comes to writing, especially, I think maybe to busier journalists or editors or companies because I get so many different pitches that come in. What was it like when you got your your first piece that was published?

Laura Wallis 19:02 Hugely fast, actually. So I don't think I'd been quite prepared for how, how quick the turnaround would be. I'd been pitching for probably honestly, a couple of months before I got my first acceptance. I then sent a pitch just because I've seen a call out on Twitter from it particular editor. So I sent a pitch on I think the Thursday, twelve hours later, she said, 'Yeah, I would love for this piece! If you could write it with this particular angle, can you submit by Monday?' and I wasn't really prepared for how quick that turnaround would be. But I did happen to have the time. So I did it and then seeing something that you've written actually, when it's been something that you've worked for and wanted for quite a long time. It just makes it all worthwhile, and you're just like, Yeah, okay, this is why I'm doing it. Now, I can keep going because I know that actually, my ideas are something that people do want to buy into.

Orla 19:53 That's great. It'd be great to hear more about the themes that you enjoy delving into as well.

Laura Wallis 19:58 Yeah, sure. So, my first piece was actually on Endometriosis, which is a long term gynaecological condition, and I wrote about how to navigate the system and how to speak to your GP, because I found in my own experience, that there was a lot of advice on what the symptoms were. But there wasn't much advice on what to do next, if you thought you had those series of symptoms, that just made me realise that actually, I'm really passionate about healthcare in general, and about people being able to access the care that they need. Having come from an NHS background, that's probably instilled in me a little bit. Yeah, I'm really passionate about people being able to advocate for what they need for themselves within the healthcare setting.

Ben 20:39 So speaking about health care, obviously, you're the founder, Director of Debating Mental Health, can you speak about that, and how that came about?

Laura Wallis 20:49 Yeah, sure. So it's actually it sounds very niche, when I explain it. It's essentially about supporting young people through debate and speech coaching, so that they can speak out on mental health in whatever way they want, and whatever way is important to them, and that came about when I was working in the NHS and young people's mental health services, and I was responsible for ensuring that their feedback was heard in the service, those young people were expected to attend meetings with board members and very senior professionals, and these were young people who were kind of fourteen to sixteen. So actually, quite an intimidating setting to walk into, and they were expected to share quite personal details about their mental health. That wasn't so much the issue, but the issue for them was actually having the confidence to be in those rooms with those very senior people. Having done debating myself at school, and at uni, I knew the impact it had on my self esteem and my confidence. So I just kind of wondered and questioned whether that could be a way to support them to feel confident going into the meetings. I got some funding to trial the idea, and this is what I mentioned at the beginning about how I ended up becoming self employed, because then we did the funding, we did the project. We did the trial, it worked really well. I loved it, but it didn't fit within my job, specifically. So that was what led me to self employment.

Orla 22:11 That's really interesting. So before you founded Debating Mental Health for those young people, do you feel like there was a gap like a vacuum? Essentially, I suppose what I'm trying to ask is, was there any existing support for those people before you stepped in and created a platform for them?

Laura Wallis 22:31 No. So I think previously, Speech and Debate coaching is quite traditionally seen as quite a private school thing. Increasingly, there's a lot of work in opening that out to state schools. So there's quite a lot of focus at the moment in the curriculum on supporting state school students to learn to debate for all of the reasons of improvement and self confidence that brings. But there wasn't specifically anything in the mental health sector. A lot of the young people I was working with actually weren't in school because of the way that their mental health was at the time. So I just thought, actually, these are a group of young people who are really missing out on all of that great work that's happening in schools at the moment.

Ben 23:12 How was it difficult to sort of train people up? Because obviously, debating language is quite formal, it's quite strange like Mr. Speaker, and all that stuff, it's a language upon itself. Was quite difficult to like, sort of teach this?

Laura Wallis 23:28 I think the thing that has been difficult, it's actually been, interestingly, adults buying into what I do. So young people are all over it, and they totally lap it up and they're like, yeah, this is great. This is really something that actually we can see the social benefit, too. But I think exactly like you say, adults have kind of got this idea of what debating is, whereas young people just haven't got that conception. So adults are kind of approaching it thinking, oh, it's quite a private school thing, or I've got my own fears of public speaking, I'm not really sure that young people who are unwell are going to really benefit from this, and actually, it's definitely something that's evolved. So to begin with, I started doing what is known as British Parliamentary debating, which is kind of the university style competition level debating, and it just, you're completely right, it wasn't working. So we, we use the skills and we use the kind of critical way of thinking, but actually the way that we train is a lot more through games and fun activities. So it's a lot more accessible, and then we embrace kind of natural speaking styles, I suppose. So it's a little bit of a deviation from traditional school and university debating. And it's just a little bit more free to be completely honest, because the more formal style just wasn't the right thing for what we're doing.

Ben 24:44 Yeah. It always looks strange to me, when they when they do it in the House of Commons or the House of Lords, whatever. I think it's very inspiring how that sort of changed people.

Orla 24:54 Yeah, for sure. I was just curious if you have any tips for public speaking?

Laura Wallis 24:59 Yeah, so that it's interesting, actually, because when there are surveys done on the biggest fears amongst adults, public speaking is routinely in the top 10 amongst things like death and spiders. I think for me, the biggest tip and the thing that I received, kind of I was probably about 18, and I was told, when you step on the stage, don't just dive straight into your speech, because there's a bit of a tendency to think, right, I've just got to get started, here's my formal speech - go! But actually to take a second pause, take a deep breath in, and actually also to start by smiling. So you kind of pause, smile. 'Hi, I'm Laura.' and the psychological reason for that is because it slows your brain and your nervous system right down. But then also, the smile releases those positive hormones and positive endorphins, and actually instantly relaxes you. So then you're in a more stable position to be able to present calmly and I think that's my absolute top tip.

Orla 26:01 That's brilliant. Love that!

Ben 26:03 Coming to you, though, if you could pick something that's inspired you in your own career, what would it be and why?

Laura Wallis 26:09 I think it's seeing and hearing the change and the difference that I'm making, either to young people or to, for instance, with my Endometriosis article to women who are in a difficult place, it's making that difference, and it's hearing that feedback of actually, this has been really useful, or, you know, since participating in your programme, I've been able to go on and do whole school presentations, or I've been able to go to an interview and speak about my experiences, and I think that got me the job. Or, you know, your article really helped me to feel like I wasn't alone, and it's just those pieces of feedback from individuals, when actually the work that I'm doing often feels like I'm working more for a collective but then actually, really, it's about individuals. And so it's yeah, hearing those individual stories.

Ben 27:01 Thanks so much, Laura. It's been great speaking to you.

Orla 27:04 Great. Thank you so much.

Ben 27:09 That's it for this week's episode. Be able to find information on freelancing in the show notes below. And on the freelance corner website.

Orla 27:15 Do you have a question about freelancing that you want us to put to an expert? Drop us an email at content at freelance corner.co.uk We'd love to hear your queries.

Ben 27:26 If you enjoyed the show, make sure you follow us so you don't miss out on our next episode. You can find us on all major platforms and just let us know Paul, we should quiz next but on next time