Kathleen Heaney:
Hello, and welcome to you Kathleen Can Do It, the DIY podcast celebrating the fun and fails of doing it yourself. I'm Kathleen Heaney.

Kathleen Martin:
And I'm Kathleen Martin.

Kathleen Heaney:
And we're just two Kathleens trying to stencil their walls like a pro.

Kathleen Martin:
In this episode, we are discussing the dos and don'ts of working with wall stencils.

Kathleen Heaney:
It's a hot topic, wall stencils.

Kathleen Martin:
They're making a comeback.

Kathleen Heaney:
But it's not for the faint of heart.

Kathleen Martin:
No.

Kathleen Heaney:
And Kathleen, I think that maybe you are the world's greatest wall stencil pro out there.

Kathleen Martin:
I've had a lot of fails that have led me to my success.

Kathleen Heaney:
So let's talk about the wall in your bathroom that you did with that amazing... What was the name of the stencil?

Kathleen Martin:
It is called the Deco Palm from Cutting Edge Stencil. This is not sponsored by them-

Kathleen Heaney:
Yeah.

Kathleen Martin:
... But I have purchased from them, I've been gifted by them, and I truly, truly love this brand.

Kathleen Heaney:
Yeah, and I have purchased from them. But me, the queen of unfinished, unstarted projects, I've never used their stencils, but I do like that they're a New Jersey based company. So let's start from the top. How did you pick this stencil, this deco art palm for your bathroom?

Kathleen Martin:
Okay, so to start from the top, we have to rewind. My husband, Brian, and I were renovating our bathroom, and it was our first time working with sheet rock, and we were really, really bad at it.

Kathleen Heaney:
I don't even know what goes into putting up sheet rock. I've seen contractors do it.

Kathleen Martin:
They make it look easy.

Kathleen Heaney:
Yeah.

Kathleen Martin:
And it's not, and we made a lot of mistakes and there were a lot of seams, and it was not for lack of trying. The amount of time we tried to cover up these seams and mud the cracks and all that stuff. Oh my God, the sanding. End result-

Kathleen Heaney:
Yeah.

Kathleen Martin:
... wasn't great.

Kathleen Heaney:
Okay. But you did it yourself. And there's a lot of pride in being able to look at that wall and say, "Hey, I did that. I put that up."

Kathleen Martin:
We did it ourselves for half the cost and six times the amount of time that it would take.

Kathleen Heaney:
But I think that that is kind of also to the point of wall stenciling, because it's amazing to do something in your house yourself. I mean, to the point of this whole podcast. It's amazing to do something yourself and look at it and be proud of what you did, and just be happy in your home.

Kathleen Martin:
Yeah, absolutely. And the thing is, budget is always going to be a factor in what you do yourself and what you hire out. And we did it ourselves because it wasn't in our budget to hire out. But now when we renovate the upstairs, it will be in our budget. And we realized sheet rock, not for us.

Kathleen Heaney:
Not for you.

Kathleen Martin:
Not for me. So hard. So the reason I chose the stencil was, I needed to cover up the wall imperfections, and the stencil distracted from that.

Kathleen Heaney:
That's genius. It's genius, actually.

Kathleen Martin:
I purposely picked a busy pattern, a unique, interesting, very wild pattern. So you couldn't see how many bumps were in the wall from all the sheet rocking errors. And it's a lot cheaper than wallpaper. And my bathroom has no ventilation, no fan. It gets very wet in there. I almost said the M word.

Both:
Moist.

Kathleen Martin:
Jinx.

Kathleen Heaney:
Me too. No, my bathroom also gets moist because I have no windows in it.

Kathleen Martin:
Yeah, it's disgusting.

Kathleen Heaney:
We basically have a dehumidifier running at all times.

Kathleen Martin:
I don't even do that.

Kathleen Heaney:
Though, I will tell you, it's very satisfying at the end of the week to pull out the reserve in the back of the dehumidifier.

Kathleen Martin:
Get out of here.

Kathleen Heaney:
And look at all of that water going down the drain.

Kathleen Martin:
That's disgusting.

Kathleen Heaney:
No, it's amazing.

Kathleen Martin:
It's so gross. So wallpaper wasn't an option.

Kathleen Heaney:
Yeah.

Kathleen Martin:
Budget wise or humidity wise, so.

Kathleen Heaney:
Yeah. And if your walls aren't super flat, wallpaper's not going to work for you.

Kathleen Martin:
Yeah. So stenciling was the right choice. It's so hard.

Kathleen Heaney:
That's what she said. Harder than the SATs?

Kathleen Martin:
Definitely

Kathleen Heaney:
Harder than marrying for money.

Kathleen Martin:
That's easy. Did not do that. But in the end, as all things with DIY, stenciling is worth it.

Kathleen Heaney:
Describe what your stencil looks like. And of course, you can go to Kathleen's Instagram @createacolorfullife. You can check it out there. But describe, what does your stencil look like? What is art deco palm?

Kathleen Martin:
So I found it just by perusing the website, and I actually chose the same color that they had displayed. It is like one vertical palm front-ish.

Kathleen Heaney:
Like a leaf, like a big palm leaf?

Kathleen Martin:
Like a leaf, right. But then it interlocks, it's a repeating pattern. And it's called the deco palm because it's like an art deco. What era was that?

Kathleen Heaney:
That was the '20s.

Kathleen Martin:
Was it? Okay.

Kathleen Heaney:
Yeah, Great Gatsby.

Kathleen Martin:
Yeah, it feels old fashioned yet modern.

Kathleen Heaney:
Yeah.

Kathleen Martin:
And-

Kathleen Heaney:
And you used a bright white wall, and then you used bright blue paint, sort of like a cobalt color in your stencil, so it gives a modern twist to an old fashioned pattern.

Kathleen Martin:
I think what you would see it, more in the 1920s would be a black background and a gold pattern, that would be more art deco. But this is, yeah, white wall. And then I use blue plate by Sherwin Williams. People ask me that a lot. It's a very bright blue. I was inspired by their website, they also have a blue.

Kathleen Heaney:
Most websites, they're going to show you color combinations with their wall stencils. If you don't have a large imagination, just go with what they're showing, if you like it.

Kathleen Martin:
Yeah, definitely.

Kathleen Heaney:
But if you don't want to play it safe, I think that stenciling is a great way to really pump up the creativity in your house. If you have a small room like, Kathleen, your stencil's fairly large, I would say medium to large. If you have a small room, go with a large stencil. Because unlike a big room, if you have a lot of pattern and color and large stencils in a big room, it can feel overwhelming. But I love large stencils or a large just wall prints in a small room. It makes the room feel bigger, and also, it's contained, so you're never going to be overwhelmed or get sick of it.

Kathleen Martin:
Yeah. And like I said, stenciling is a much cheaper option than wallpaper because the cost of the stencil could be between say 20 to $50 when you're using the right brand and the right quality. I got a large, so I think it was closer to $50. You use such little paint, I used one quart. What's the sample size from Sherwin Williams?

Kathleen Heaney:
Yeah, like a quart.

Kathleen Martin:
Yeah. I only use one quart, and that is around, I believe, less than $10. I get a discount at Sherwin Williams. If you're like a, we've registered somehow as a contractor, I don't know.

Kathleen Heaney:
That's a really good tip.

Kathleen Martin:
Yeah. So the whole thing could cost you easily less than a $100. Whereas one roll of nice wallpaper can cost a $100.

Kathleen Heaney:
Or sometimes even more. Sometimes 250 or $300.

Kathleen Martin:
I know, not for me.

Kathleen Heaney:
It's so expensive.

Kathleen Martin:
I wish it was for me,

Kathleen Heaney:
You have a fairly small bathroom.

Kathleen Martin:
That's an understatement.

Kathleen Heaney:
How long did it take you? Okay, this is a podcast, you need to make noise. But Kathleen, for everybody listening right now, she literally just sunk into the back of her chair, and hung her chin on her chest.

Kathleen Martin:
Days.

Kathleen Heaney:
Days.

Kathleen Martin:
Okay. But here's the thing, and this is why you're listening to us. You will learn from my mistakes because I did it all wrong, and like always, what did I do? I cried. But then you put your hair in a bun, you regroup and you get it done.

Kathleen Heaney:
Yeah, you pull yourself up by your theoretical DIY boot strings. Something like that.

Kathleen Martin:
Yeah, by my coveralls, and I painted over all of it. I painted over everything I did, because this is my thing, I either do it half-ass, or I do it insanely meticulously. And I will not, depends on the day and depends on which direction the wind is blowing. But I'll either be like, "Don't care, whatever. It can look like garbage." Or I'm like, "I'm going to spend years on this."

Kathleen Heaney:
Wait, so you did it all, and you hated it. And did you sand the wall after you did it?

Kathleen Martin:
No, no.

Kathleen Heaney:
Kathleen, you didn't?

Kathleen Martin:
Never.

Kathleen Heaney:
Bad girl.

Kathleen Martin:
The baddest.

Kathleen Heaney:
I cannot believe you didn't sand.

Kathleen Martin:
That's me.

Kathleen Heaney:
I'm going to be thinking about this tonight and I'm not going to be able to sleep.

Kathleen Martin:
So the number one mistake people make when stenciling is putting on too much paint, and I will go into every single step in a minute, but I put on too much paint like any new stenciler, and it seeps under the stencil and it bleeds. And when you want it to look like wallpaper, obviously a stencil is going to have a hand-done quality, it's a little irregular, that's part of it. But when it looks so irregular, and you just look like a bad crafter. And I just felt embarrassed by the quality, it broke my heart.

Kathleen Heaney:
It broke your heart, no, I mean-

Kathleen Martin:
It broke my heart.

Kathleen Heaney:
... one of the most searched terms, when you're looking up wall stencils and painting a wall with a wall stencil, wall stenciling without bleeding is one of the terms most searched because bleeding underneath that stencil, when you have it flat against the wall, if you have too much paint, it's just going to happen.

Kathleen Martin:
That is the absolute, the number one way to mess it up, and that's what I did. And, but I just kept going with the same gusto of error.

Kathleen Heaney:
And then when it-

Kathleen Martin:
Until I did the whole wall.

Kathleen Heaney:
And when it was all done, you're like, "Those are shit.

Speaker X:
"I've done a horrible job. Why did I keep going?"

Kathleen Heaney:
Okay. I would have, at that point, sanded over what I'd already done, because I'd be afraid that you could see-

Kathleen Martin:
Oh, you could. You can.

Kathleen Heaney:
Kathleen. Okay.

Kathleen Martin:
See, this is where your method would be beneficial, because I just painted it over it. You could see the texture and I was like, "Hmm, don't care."

Kathleen Heaney:
How many coats of white, what color white did you use? Do you know?

Kathleen Martin:
Pure white by Sherwin Williams, it's just like a very true white.

Kathleen Heaney:
How many coats of white did you have to paint over? So-

Kathleen Martin:
Probably three.

Kathleen Heaney:
You did three coats?

Kathleen Martin:
So this wall has hell of loads of paint on it at this point.

Kathleen Heaney:
Oh my God. This poor wall is like when you put on too much foundation, when you're doing your makeup.

Kathleen Martin:
Oh my God. And it's caked on.

Kathleen Heaney:
We all have that friend whose skin has so many layers of foundation on it, and you're like, "Honey, you're not hiding anything." I'm usually that friend, that's why I can say that. Okay, so you started over.

Kathleen Martin:
Right. But I think that this is what every DIYer experiences, those rough humble beginnings of doing it wrong to then really hone the technique. This is a technique, this is what you need to do. This is Bible, okay, don't listen to anyone else.

Kathleen Heaney:
What are you, a Kardashian, "This is Bible. Dear [inaudible 00:10:22] Bible?

Kathleen Martin:
I've never watched them, I didn't know they said that.

Kathleen Heaney:
Oh my God, please keep it that way. Keep your untainted pure Kardashian brain, just young and naive.

Kathleen Martin:
Up here. Okay, so I recommend getting your stencil high quality, and a dense foam roller, a small one. A stippling brush is good, but I didn't, or pouncing, I don't know. They call it a stippling brush, but then the action is pouncing.

Kathleen Heaney:
Yeah. When you dab a brush, a stencil brush on the wall, it's called pouncing, which...

Kathleen Martin:
Just learned that today.

Kathleen Heaney:
It feels a little frisky for me.

Kathleen Martin:
Bearing cat-like. And now this is where we ignore everyone else. Do not use a spray adhesive, do not recommend it. It adds an extra step. You can't just spray it in your space because then you're definitely getting spray adhesive glue...

Kathleen Heaney:
Everywhere

Kathleen Martin:
... in the air, where you don't want it. So then I'm walking outside trying to spray it with spray adhesive, getting pieces of grass in it, and just like-

Kathleen Heaney:
Yeah, pollen from the air will stick to it.

Kathleen Martin:
Or just anything. Yeah, it's collecting debris now on the back. And then if you put too much, you get that glue on your wall, and then the paint was going in it. So I have texture of glue on the wall. I eventually gave up, so I don't recommend that. And I did not find it helped with bleeding really at all, it was more hassle.

Kathleen Heaney:
That's good to know, yeah, pro tip.

Kathleen Martin:
It wasn't worth it. So I did not use the spray adhesive, but you do need a blue painter's tape to hold it in place, and that painter's tape was able to be reused, maybe, the whole time.

Kathleen Heaney:
Really?

Kathleen Martin:
Maybe eventually it wears out enough that you have to add a little bit more, but painters tape on all four sides, enough that you're able to just keep going. And what's nice about cutting edge stencils in particular, they have repeat guides. It has a built-in alignment system. So I stencil one, and then when I move the stencil into the next placement, part of the stencil that I already put on the wall, lines up with the stencil then I'm doing next. So it could be three little dots or three lines. You make sure that those are visible within the holes of your next stencil, and that it keeps that perfectly aligned.

Kathleen Heaney:
Oh okay, I get it. So you don't have to have two stencil patterns because the anchor, the part that connects each stencil that you put on the wall, is the pattern and not the actual stencil?

Kathleen Martin:
Right. However they make the pattern work, it always is going to ever repeat in a way that it shows you as a guide where to put the next stencil.

Kathleen Heaney:
So you're not trying to space it out perfectly yourself?

Kathleen Martin:
Right. Okay, let's talk about bleeding.

Kathleen Heaney:
Yes. Let's do.

Kathleen Martin:
Bleeding is when your paint gets under your stencil and then it doesn't look crisp.

Kathleen Heaney:
Yeah, and those edges are all wonky and... Drives me nuts.

Kathleen Martin:
It's like furry.

Kathleen Heaney:
Yeah, it's so [inaudible 00:13:10], ew, that's the most accurate, but also the most disgusting way to describe bleeding edges.

Kathleen Martin:
You're welcome. The best way to avoid this is using as little paint as possible. Any stencil tutorial I've ever watched always uses this term offload.

Kathleen Heaney:
Oh, what does that mean?

Kathleen Martin:
It means you have to basically take all the paint off.

Kathleen Heaney:
Once you've already put the paint on the roller?

Kathleen Martin:
Yes. Very confusing. You rolled the paint on the roller, trying to get it everywhere, whatever, equally around.

Kathleen Heaney:
As evenly as you can.

Kathleen Martin:
And then you'd have to essentially take it all off.

Kathleen Heaney:
Interesting.

Kathleen Martin:
But they'll show you to offload on a paper towel. I do not recommend this.

Kathleen Heaney:
Yeah. A lot of YouTube videos-

Kathleen Martin:
All of them.

Kathleen Heaney:
... show after they put the paint on the foam roller, then they roll the roller again over a paper towel to get off excess paint.

Kathleen Martin:
Do not recommend this because, A, the paper towel will absorb it immediately and, B, it's sodden and you can't use it. Unless you have a free hand every time to hold the paper towel, it's just going to roll around your roller. It gets stuck, and then it's like this wet, messy paper towel that you're trying to not get everywhere else.

Kathleen Heaney:
And also, every single brand of paper towel was not created equal. So some brands have little fuzzies, and so now you've got fuzzies in your paint, which sucks.

Kathleen Martin:
What works very well is a piece of cardboard.

Kathleen Heaney:
Just having a large piece of cardboard to offload your roller paint on.

Kathleen Martin:
And the cardboard is so much more stiff, so it's going to stay where it is, in place. It's more absorbent, and in between rolls, in between offloading, the paint that you put on the cardboard is already pretty dry, so-

Kathleen Heaney:
Oh, because the paint would dry.

Kathleen Martin:
Yeah.

Kathleen Heaney:
Before you need it to offload it again.

Kathleen Martin:
Any Amazon box, rip off one of the sides and use the cardboard, and it'll work totally fine. You can go over the same area more than once or flip it back and forth, and that will dry.

Kathleen Heaney:
So I have a question for you. What was the finish of the paint that you used in your bathroom? Because a lot of times, people will go with a semigloss in the bathroom because moisture builds up and then it's easily wipeable.

Kathleen Martin:
I use flat paint because it just works the best. I actually don't know why, but...

Kathleen Heaney:
No, I'll just tell you why they recommend flat for stenciling.

Kathleen Martin:
Why?

Kathleen Heaney:
Because flat dries faster, and it reduces your chances of bleeding.

Kathleen Martin:
That makes sense.

Kathleen Heaney:
And I actually watched a YouTube video where the guy said, "If you are a true novice at this, maybe consider using special fast dry paint that's not necessarily a wall paint, like an acrylic paint, because it dries so quickly that you might have a better chance of having a pattern that doesn't come out with any bleeding."

Kathleen Martin:
That's an important tip.

Kathleen Heaney:
Can we touch on leveling for a second? Because I know how important this was when I was hanging wallpaper in my bedroom.

Kathleen Martin:
Yes. You can't just assume that your...

Kathleen Heaney:
That your eyeball's going to be able to keep everything level.

Kathleen Martin:
That, or your ceiling lines level. If your ceiling isn't level, as you go, it's going to start to slant, and that slant will get more exaggerated as the pattern continues, and you'll be all messed up. Cutting edge stencil has a clip-on level.

Kathleen Heaney:
Oh my God, that's genius.

Kathleen Martin:
Yeah. So just like there's this little thin piece with a tiny little level on it, and that's really helpful.

Kathleen Heaney:
A lot of people don't realize that when you're stenciling a wall, and also when you're hanging wallpaper, making sure everything stays level and not just trusting your eyeball, is so essential. Before we started recording today, Kathleen and I were watching this video from 13 years ago.

Kathleen Martin:
It was wild.

Kathleen Heaney:
It was wild. In that video, they used a yardstick and just a regular level tool to draw a grid on the wall before they used their wall stencil.

Kathleen Martin:
It would take so long, she stippled everything with a brush. That's the thing, like these brushes, they are handy, and I tried it all the first round. I don't recommend the brush for larger areas, it would take forever.

Kathleen Heaney:
I'm the person that would be like, "I'm doing the whole thing like a purist with a brush."

Kathleen Martin:
Like Michelangelo over here, no.

Kathleen Heaney:
You used a foam roller, basically for everything.

Kathleen Martin:
I used, yeah, a dense foam roller. Now, what I learned is, you want so little paint on this roller that you actually have to put a hard pressure on the roller to even almost get any paint out.

Kathleen Heaney:
Top tip right there.

Kathleen Martin:
You know if you're painting a wall and you're running out of paint, so you have to push harder?

Kathleen Heaney:
Yeah, yeah.

Kathleen Martin:
That's how it was. So I found that as I went on, as the roller started to run out of even more paint, they were coming out better because-

Kathleen Heaney:
Oh.

Kathleen Martin:
When it's so dry, when the roller is so dry, the likelihood of bleeding just goes down and down and down. When you have a big-

Kathleen Heaney:
Floppy.

Kathleen Martin:
... [inaudible 00:17:44] of a paint, it's going to seep under. And here is my disclaimer, you'll do everything right, you'll listen to me, and you'll do it all right, and you'll still get bleeding

Kathleen Heaney:
Normal for stenciling, abnormal coming through your stitches after surgery.

Kathleen Martin:
What?

Kathleen Heaney:
I think. I don't know, I watch Grey's Anatomy,

Kathleen Martin:
So once you do everything, you offload it on your cardboard, and you're using the right amount of paint, which is nothing, you might feel like it doesn't look dark enough, but it is, trust me. A little bit of irregularity is kind of what makes a stencil, it's not going to be solid and you can't expect it to be solid and look exactly like a wallpaper. It is maybe a little bit lighter over here, and a little bit darker there, but in the grand scheme of things, you don't notice, but it also kind of adds to the character if you do notice.

Kathleen Heaney:
Yeah, yeah. And the handmade look is always more charming.

Kathleen Martin:
Oh yeah.

Kathleen Heaney:
Do you think Michelangelo tossed and turned over a little bleeding? No, he kept going.

Kathleen Martin:
I don't think he used a stencil, but maybe he did.

Kathleen Heaney:
Oh yeah, you're right. So how did you combat the bleeding the second time you did it when you didn't use too much paint?

Kathleen Martin:
So when bleeding happens, I recommend having a whole pocket full of Q-tips, one side wet, one side dry. And even, they have those cosmetic Q-tips that have a point.

Kathleen Heaney:
Oh, that is genius.

Kathleen Martin:
Yes. So if you wet that, you can get the little areas.

Kathleen Heaney:
I've seen people put baby wipes, wrap the, wrap them around the edge of a butter knife.

Kathleen Martin:
Mm, that's a good idea.

Kathleen Heaney:
And yeah, to go in that way and get a really straight line, but you have to do this before your paint has dried.

Kathleen Martin:
If you can get it when it's wet, it's easier. Or you can always just paint over it with the wall color.

Kathleen Heaney:
Go in with a teeny tiny little paintbrush.

Kathleen Martin:
Yeah. And if you're getting a lot of bleeds, check the back of the stencil before you move on because there could be paint back there that's messing you up. They do recommend buying two stencils. I didn't.

Kathleen Heaney:
I was just going to-

Kathleen Martin:
Cheap.

Kathleen Heaney:
You are inside my head right now, because I was going to ask you why people don't buy two stencils, because I would buy two stencils.

Kathleen Martin:
Because I'm cheap.

Kathleen Heaney:
Okay. I would be the one that's like, "That's got to be perfect. I'm going to use one stencil and let it dry, and then use another stencil and let it dry, and."

Kathleen Martin:
Yeah. If you do it thin enough, you'll be fine. I didn't wait any time, I just was able to keep going from one to the other, and had no problems. And learn from me.

Kathleen Heaney:
Yeah,

Kathleen Martin:
Don't cut your stencil.

Kathleen Heaney:
Okay.

Kathleen Martin:
I was like, "I am done. This corner is tricky, let me cut the stencil."

Kathleen Heaney:
That is why I would buy two stencils.

Kathleen Martin:
I know.

Kathleen Heaney:
So I would have one to cut for corners, and then one that I would keep whole.

Kathleen Martin:
Yeah.

Kathleen Heaney:
Let me ask you this. When you were figuring out where you were going to start, did you start in the corner or did you look into your bathroom and figure out where the main focal point of the stencil pattern was going to be and go from there?

Kathleen Martin:
This is a good question.

Kathleen Heaney:
Yeah. Because for wallpaper, they say, and large scale stencils, a lot of times they'll say, "Don't start in the corner. Figure out where the center focal point of your room is. Start there, and then go out to the corners from there.

Kathleen Martin:
Yeah, it's the same like I recommend it with the peel and stick. So I started the peel and stick tile centered on the doorway. So it's the same principle. Here's the thing, sometimes I think and sometimes I don't.

Kathleen Heaney:
So you didn't do it?

Kathleen Martin:
Pretty sure I just threw up that stencil wherever.

Kathleen Heaney:
I can't believe you.

Kathleen Martin:
No, but I think I did start in the middle because once I got to the corners, it was challenging.

Kathleen Heaney:
It was challenging. That is why I have purchased stencils before, but I've never actually executed stenciling, because I always ask myself before starting, "How long is this really going to take?" Did you do your bathroom in a day or was it multiple days?

Kathleen Martin:
No, no. I would say the first go around took probably three days.

Kathleen Heaney:
Three, really?

Kathleen Martin:
Because when you're messing up, there's frustration, and then it leads to more errors, and then you do the whole wall, looks terrible, and then you have your breakdown, and then you paint over it. But the second go around went way faster. But it still probably took two days. I don't know about you, but for me, any DIY project, after about three hours, that's really my max, then I need a break, then I'm trying to make mistakes.

Kathleen Heaney:
You need lunch. Yeah.

Kathleen Martin:
Yeah, always lunch.

Kathleen Heaney:
And your hand starts to hurt.

Kathleen Martin:
You're just mad.

Kathleen Heaney:
You're right, [inaudible 00:22:04].

Kathleen Martin:
Like, "I don't even know why I did this?" Or, "I just wish I had more money and pay for the stupid."

Kathleen Heaney:
Or you start getting mad at yourself, you're like, "I did this to myself. This is the consequences of my own actions."

Kathleen Martin:
I was just saying in my stories, "Do you speak to yourself out loud in an... Do you call yourself something?"

Kathleen Heaney:
Oh yeah, absolutely. I was... Whenever I'm doing anything home related, I talk to myself, like, "Yeah. One down, another wall to go." Absolutely, I talked to myself all the time.

Kathleen Martin:
Got to keep a peppy. The other day I was home alone because I work at home alone. And then you talk to yourself even more, and I was like, "All right, Leenie Marie, let's do this."

Kathleen Heaney:
You call yourself Leenie?

Kathleen Martin:
Well, that's a family nickname, and then Marie's my middle name. I was like, "Huh, that's a new one."

Kathleen Heaney:
Maybe Leenie Marie needs to be your DIY alter ego.

Kathleen Martin:
Leenie Marie.

Kathleen Heaney:
And you cheer her on.

Kathleen Martin:
Come on. This is so vulnerable.

Kathleen Heaney:
Does that make my DIY counterpart Leenie Heaney?

Kathleen Martin:
That's perfect.

Kathleen Heaney:
Has a nice ring to it.

Kathleen Martin:
It does.

Kathleen Heaney:
And you know what? DIYing is, to me, I like working on projects alone because I'll look over at my poor husband, I'll be like, "You're not doing it. Just put your materials down and walk away."

Kathleen Martin:
You've been fired.

Kathleen Heaney:
And that's why he's so hesitant to help me with anything, and I think that's why I have a hard time actually completing projects. I need to approach him helping me with a little bit more kindness. But it is a very solitary hobby and passion, and talking to yourself, I think, is totally okay.

Kathleen Martin:
We're going down this road alone.

Kathleen Heaney:
Oh, I have a question to ask you, this has been on the tip of my tongue. Did you buy your foam roller through the company that you bought your stencil from?

Kathleen Martin:
I've used both, but foam is foam. I didn't notice any difference.

Kathleen Heaney:
I will say though, that if your stencil company that you're buying from offers brushes, use their brushes.

Kathleen Martin:
Oh, their brushes are very nice, so the wall... So I said I would not recommend doing a full wall with the brush, but the brushes are very helpful for those tricky areas like corners, and next to the trim, the corners are typically going to be half a stencil, and you have to bend the stencil. These stencils that I got, they make them thick enough that you're not going to crease them, they're able to be bent. But it's awkward, it's not usually flat. So that's when the different brushes are very helpful. Don't be like me, wash them afterwards, because these are nice brushes, so you don't want to ruin like I did.

Kathleen Heaney:
Yeah. So how often did you wash your stencil when you were working in your bathroom? Because the paint builds up eventually on the back of it, right?

Kathleen Martin:
Only once, and honestly, it was a disaster. I put it into the bathtub, and I was trying to wash it like a baby, and-

Kathleen Heaney:
Oh God.

Kathleen Martin:
... it wasn't working. If you don't get too much paint on the back to begin with, you don't have to wash it, but it does build up a lot on the front. But as long as it's not really blocking the holes of the stencil, I didn't have a problem with it.

Kathleen Heaney:
I would not recommend getting just the cheapest stencil you can find from Amazon or wherever. Because what the stencil is made of truly makes a difference in how well your stenciling is going to come out. The quality stencils are usually made with Mylar plastic, so just check your materials before you hit that purchase button. Kathleen, another thing worth mentioning, you are very bold in having a white wall with a bright blue paint for your stencil. If you're a stencil newbie and you kind of want to just dip your toe in the stencil world, use... I call it the nail chipping property. You know when you get your nails done, and you get a light pink so that when the edges start to chip, you basically almost can't even see it?

Kathleen Martin:
I would never in million years get a light pink nail color.

Kathleen Heaney:
Kathleen. Okay.

Kathleen Martin:
But I understand the theory.

Kathleen Heaney:
For the rest of us that don't always have bright red glamorous nails. Yeah, that's why I always get my toes done in a fairly light color because when they start to chip, you can't tell. I know you're looking at me like I'm-

Kathleen Martin:
I got talked into a light toenail polish for my wedding.

Kathleen Heaney:
I can't believe you let someone talk you into a color that you didn't want for your wedding.

Kathleen Martin:
I will let the nail salon talk me into anything. They will make me bleed and I will tip them 20%, and I'll say, "Thank you, ma'am," and then I will leave.

Kathleen Heaney:
Kathleen, no, you need to stop them when they're doing it and be like, "I don't like it."

Kathleen Martin:
It was a horrible light toenail polish in gel, so I paid more and I couldn't get it off. It was horrible.

Kathleen Heaney:
Oh okay. Well, if you are not Kathleen and you like pale colors like I like pale colors every now and then, I think a really great way to not be totally traumatized by your stencil experience would be to pick a color for your stencil that is the same color family, green on green, pink on pink, whatever you want to do, cream on cream. And have it just a few shades lighter, a few shades darker, so your eye is not going to pick up on the inconsistencies like it would of a really stark color contrast.

Kathleen Martin:
Yeah. I love tone on tone.

Kathleen Heaney:
Yeah, I think tone on tone is so underrated because it's a great way to add texture and pattern to a space without really overdoing it.

Kathleen Martin:
Yeah, definitely.

Kathleen Heaney:
Would you ever stencil a ceiling?

Kathleen Martin:
You know what? My gut instinct was, "No," but probably. My ceilings have paint texture and you can't get rid of it.

Kathleen Heaney:
You have popcorn ceilings?

Kathleen Martin:
No, see that's the thing. Popcorn can be moist, dampened and scraped off. Textured paint can't be sanded off, it would have to be skim coated or covered up with new sheet rock. So I couldn't do anything on any of my ceilings, but I think it would be cool.

Kathleen Heaney:
Stenciling a ceiling is a great way to make a small room look bigger. Your eye doesn't get cut off when the ceiling and the walls are the same print pattern color.

Kathleen Martin:
Oh, you would bring the stencil to the ceiling,

Kathleen Heaney:
Yeah, I'd bring the stencil to the ceiling.

Kathleen Martin:
Oh, see? I don't think I would do that. Only because the maths don't math for me, and lining that up would be too hard.

Kathleen Heaney:
It'd be really, really, really, really time intensive.

Kathleen Martin:
If you want to hurt your neck, try stenciling a ceiling.

Kathleen Heaney:
I was looking up different wall stencils just because I haven't brushed up on the new patterns that are available out there, and I came across a website that said, "Use a stencil on duvets."

Kathleen Martin:
No.

Kathleen Heaney:
On pillows.

Kathleen Martin:
No.

Kathleen Heaney:
On lampshades.

Kathleen Martin:
Hell no. No, that's something [inaudible 00:28:32] you do block printing, not stencil.

Kathleen Heaney:
Okay. So we'll do a separate episode on block printing and a separate episode on stenciling your floors because that's a whole other game.

Kathleen Martin:
I would say I took all my fails and turned them into triumphs on my floor stencil.

Kathleen Heaney:
Okay. Well, that's very good to know. Instead of a social shout out, should we do a stencil shout out this episode?

Kathleen Martin:
Yeah, that's good idea.

Kathleen Heaney:
Okay. I am choosing a stencil from a company called Oak Lane Studio. I've never purchased anything from them, but I think that they're stencil called the Trousdale Wall Stencil, which is essentially like a very geometric pattern. It looks like circles that are outlined that loop with each other like the Olympics, except they loop horizontally. This like circles holding hands, repeating on a horizontal pattern and they all have these vertical lines going through them. The Trousdale Wall Stencil from Oak Lane Studio. People might google wall stencils and see some really wild patterns and be afraid to do it. And if you have a more traditional style, I think that this, the Trousdale Wall Stencil, is a fresh take on experimenting with a wall stencil, because it doesn't look like a crazy pattern. It looks like a wallpaper that maybe your grandma might be okay with.

Kathleen Martin:
I think stencils might still have a bad wrap in some people's minds because I know my childhood bedroom had a stencil border. I think when some people hear wall stenciling, they think of really old fashion.

Kathleen Heaney:
Mm-hmm, like seashells.

Kathleen Martin:
Yeah. But no, it's like this whole new thing that you're really just replicating wallpaper, the look and feel of wallpaper, but with a stencil for less money. So I think a really good stencil to get started with, this is from Cutting Edge Stencil. It's the Hand Drawn Chevron Wall Stencil.

Kathleen Heaney:
Oh, I love that. Because, while I don't like Chevron, there's just something very organic about the Hand Drawn Chevron Stencil from Cutting Edge.

Kathleen Martin:
So a chevron is a zigzag pattern, but this is a little bit different. It's these very irregular diagonals, like arrows pointing upwards, and then arrows pointing downwards, but there's a white gap in between each direction change. They have it in a black and white example. It's very light, it's just adds a little bit of texture to the wall, and I think it goes with a more modern style, goes with a more farmhouse style. I think you could really put that on the wall and then do any type of style with it.

Kathleen Heaney:
Yeah, yeah. And it would be a great beginner style because it's literally just like a line that you're stenciling into the wall over and over again. There's no loops, there's no flowers, there's nothing.

Kathleen Martin:
Yeah, I like that one, makes a lot more impact than just a plain wall.

Kathleen Heaney:
I'm wondering if you could be a professional stenciler.

Kathleen Martin:
You can be a professional anything.

Kathleen Heaney:
Kathleen, you, this is a whole new revenue stream for you. You could offer to stencil people's walls.

Kathleen Martin:
No. I only put this love into my own wall.

Kathleen Heaney:
Okay. As always, all the products that we mentioned in this episode will be linked in our show notes and on our website, Kathleen Can Do It. Follow our podcast on Instagram @kathleencandoit.

Kathleen Martin:
You can leave us a voicemail. Our number is 201-378-3378.

Kathleen Heaney:
You can text us there too. And you can send us an email at hello@kathleencandoit.com. Also, make sure you head over to Facebook, facebook.com/kathleencandoitpodcast. Through that page, you can join our DIY group, a really fun conversation happening in there. People are really posting very cool projects, and other members are commenting on it and offering advice. It's a fun place to be.

Kathleen Martin:
You can follow me, Kathleen Martin @createacolorfullife.

Kathleen Heaney:
And me, Kathleen Heaney @kathleenlovescolor.

Kathleen Martin:
And don't forget...

Both:
If Kathleen can do it, you can do it too.