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Narrator: You're listening to
the Humans of DevOps Podcast, a

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podcast focused on advancing the
humans of DevOps through skills,

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knowledge, ideas and learning,
or the SKIL framework.

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Patrycja Slawuta: Old
technology, ancient technology,

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and new technologies is
something that we need to know

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more about because it's all
speeding up and so you can see

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systems online are just getting
hot very often when you know we

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work with clients, we say
hardcopy hot.

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Eveline Oehrlich: Welcome to the
Humans of DevOps Podcast. I'm

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Eveline Oehrlich, Chief Research
Officer at DevOps Institute.

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When we think about hacking, we
immediately assume it's about

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the act of identifying, and then
exploiting weaknesses in a

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computer system or network,
usually to gain unauthorized

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access to personnel
organizational type data, but

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mind hacking? Have you ever
heard of that? Well, I have not.

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But today, we will learn about
what a mind hacker is and more.

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Today, we have with us Patrycja
Slawuta, founder of UnLab and

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self hackathon, entrepreneur and
mind hacker. But richer is

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Australia based, New York City
educated and Poland born

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researcher, entrepreneur and
mind hacker. She's a connoisseur

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of complexity, non linearity and
messiness of the human nature.

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behavioral scientist by
training, nerdy science and its

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application is her passion and
work. After spending 10 plus

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years in academia, Patrycja
found itself hackathon a New

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York City based global boutique
behavioral consultancy of

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scientists, and we'll hear more
about that in a minute. But

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there's your beliefs believes
the human mind is the world's

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most untapped natural resource.
She actually has that in her

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signature in her email. As such,
her mission is to give people

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and organizations clear
frameworks and practical tools

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to meaningfully and efficiently
mind their own minds in in order

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to find purpose, clarity and
alignment. In our free time,

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which she has actually she has
actually run marathons 28 So

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far, and she reads audiobooks
and meditates. Welcome to our

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podcast. Patrycja, thank you.

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Patrycja Slawuta: Thank you for
having me.

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Eveline Oehrlich: We are excited
to have you here. I'm excited to

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speak to you because I've
watched your TED talk, and have

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been trying to get into that
activity you've done just

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recently. But it had to be there
in person which I was able to

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travel. So I'm excited to have
you with us. Now, just quickly

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for your information. Our
listeners are a variety of folks

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in IT leaders, individual
contributors, DevOps testers,

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developers, infrastructure
operations, folks, cloud people,

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all kinds of, I would say, nerds
but that's compliment not the

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derogatory in any kind in any
type. I want you to tell them a

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little bit about unlap and self
hackathon.

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Patrycja Slawuta: Sure, so. So
Hackathon, both Hackathon and

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UnLab, their main idea is that
we can actually hack and rewire

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and upgrade ourselves. It all
started about 10 years ago, when

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I was writing my PhD thesis on
shame. And my ex husband

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actually came home and he said,
"you know, you know so much

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about shame. Why don't you teach
it?" And I say, "Well, I don't

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think anybody wants to learn
about shame.". It's such a

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obscured weird topic, that
especially people in New York

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City that are so focused on, you
know, hustle and, and building

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their businesses want to know
about, and he said, Well, why

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don't you just try and I put a
little ad on Facebook, actually,

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back in the day, and I called it
shameless summer. And it was

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really the idea was to how do we
break down the science of shame,

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so that people can understand
it? And it turned out that the

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event sold out within two hours.
And I had, I think, 25 amazing

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human beings in my apartment in
New York City. And people were

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coming from Warren saying, Well,
why don't you explain this topic

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and that topic, you know, topic,
basic human topics, like fear

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and uncertainty. And it turns
out that even though we use it

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on every in everyday basis,
those are very complex

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psychological phenomena. You
know, how do you deal with

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uncertainty? How do you deal
with betrayal? How do you deal

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with risk? How, what is loyalty?
Group dynamics, and so it turned

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out that actually there was a
great need to take things out of

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science. That's why I called on
lab, the company that's based

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here in Australia, we take it
out of lab and we bring it into

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life and we break it down into
small chunks. Now self Hawk got

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dawn, the interesting thing
about and we talked about

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hacking, I was trying to I was
thinking I was living in Silicon

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Valley and working in Silicon
Valley with a lot of programmers

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and a lot of nerds and you know,
when they when they think about

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psychology, they think it's this
boring, weird topic that you

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know, you go on a on a couch at
a shrinks office and you know,

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and you say, Oh, how do you how
does it make you feel, which is

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part of the therapy, but there's
that much more to psychology

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than just that and clinical
psychology. And so the idea was

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that, you know, programmers
program us they, they create

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tools, but who programmed them.
And that was really the idea

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that we actually programmable
technology, we are probably the

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oldest technology, one of the
oldest technologies. We are

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300,000 years as Homo sapiens,
which means wonder knows, that

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knows, and we interact with new
technologies. And that being

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metaphor, Evers, that being all
kinds of new things, that you

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know, that interaction, I find
that interesting, absolutely

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fascinating. And this is really
where Cytec, that term comes

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from. And that's kind of space
that we explore, because I think

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that interaction, old
technology, ancient technology,

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and new technologies is
something that we need to know

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more about, because it's all
speeding up. And so you can see

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systems around us I just getting
hacked, and that includes our

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own system, we are constantly
hacks. And so my bottom line,

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very often when you know, we
work with clients, we say, How

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could be hacked, back in the day
used to be Know thyself. Now, I

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would say it's hacked myself,
because if you don't, somebody

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else will. And there's entire
industries that are built around

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hacking us and our
vulnerabilities, if you wish,

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just as humans Yeah, that that
we have as humans

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Eveline Oehrlich: Love that hack
thyself. So how did you get into

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the field of behavioral
scientists?

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Patrycja Slawuta: Well,
behavioral science, I would say,

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is a simplified version of
psychology and Maestria,

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experimental social psychology.
But if you tell that to people,

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they freak out. And so the field
that people are used to the

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interface that people most
people are used to dealing with

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is behavioral science. And so I
say, behavior science. However,

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my field is way wider than that,
you know, I specialized in a way

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in the complexity and messiness,
and non linearity of the human

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experience, individual and then,
you know, we already complex as

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individual Now, multiply that by
two and a couple, or multiply

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that by four in a family, or
multiply that by 100, or 1000,

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in a company, and you get a
very, very complex system. And I

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find those systems, absolutely,
utterly fascinating how they

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work, how we hug each other, how
we can influence each other, how

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our behavior changes in group
dynamics, you know, how can we

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be one person wiser, one
circumstance, and then

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completely different person
different circumstance. So

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that's, that really is my field.
The simplified version is

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behavior science, because that's
what people actually understand.

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So the science of human
behavior.

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Eveline Oehrlich: So, in we do
research every year on skills,

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particularly in it, so in our
2023, we found that human skills

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actually ranked as the third
must have skill category, we

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have these categories of process
skills and technology skills,

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and etc. So human skills was
behind processing framework and

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technical but as third, we also
know that there are huge skill

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gaps. And you know, that I don't
have to tell you, it's not

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surprising to you. I was doing
some research, of course, on my

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own looking for, you know, some
smart questions to ask you and

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I, and you did an event, I
think, November 29, November 17,

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we need to buy Florida School, I
think it was orchestrated, and

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you said, or in the event, it
said the ability to connect

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deeply, rapidly and
authentically with others, is

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also a hallmark of great
leaders. And one of the most

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important business skills in our
current post pandemic world.

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This actually gets me to your
TED Talk, which is how I found

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you on hacking humanity, which I
was absolutely inspired by and I

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was, I tried to get you into our
London event. I'm sorry, that

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didn't work out. Because I
thought that would have been

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fantastic. But it really
inspired me and I was watching

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it and anybody who is listening
in go look for her hacking

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humanity, TED talk, it's
fantastic. But when you say for

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those who might not want to go
there, because they're so busy,

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when you say hacking humanity,
what did you mean, when you say

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that? What do you mean, tell us
a little bit more about that,

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because I found it intriguing.
But your words are so much more

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powerful, and you can explain it
so much better than I can.

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Patrycja Slawuta: Well, that was
five years ago. So back in the

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day, five years ago, now I think
it's even multiply and it's

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happening stronger and deeper
and faster. The idea was that

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our systems were being hacked on
many levels, our human systems

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were being hacked by technology.
The idea was that actually every

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single event that we have
created an opportunity for us to

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upgrade or downgrade if you
wish, and the choice whether

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what happens is really up to us.
And I think now after COVID This

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is actually even more pressing.
What a week. In a downgrade and

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will turn into kind of against
each other, and you know, it's

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all about me, or are we going to
connect up in a way and create

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something that's meaningful now,
hacking humanity, the idea was

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that actually, at any point, we
can hack, we are an upgrade

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ourselves. And every single
event that happens is an

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opportunity to do that, as I
say, we are 30 300,000 year old

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technology that's has, you know,
throughout ages has been kind of

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upgrading if you wish, you know,
we've been collaborating more,

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we we've been creating more,
etc. And every single big event

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in in humanity creates
opportunity to kind of upgrade.

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Now we have had many, many main
downgrades, and that includes

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many wars that we have had
genocides and things as such,

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you can think of yourself as a
code, and I see us as a code. So

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your brain is a code, it has a
very simple function. Every

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single neuron has zero or one.
And so multiply that by 100

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billion neurons 100 trillion
synaptic connection and you get

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consciousness. But oh, it's a
very simple system. It's like

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system of dams. It's either on
or off. Your DNA is also a code.

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It's the we call it code of life
ACTG. So those are the four

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letters of life that create all
of life. Now, that's also

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hackable. And that's also
upgradable. And we know that

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from epigenetics, we know that
things get transmuted through

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generations, and there is no
dispute over that. And our

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behavior is a code as well. And
you know, as a behavioral

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scientist, I can write down your
behavior. And it's actually not

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that complicated. It's stimulus
response and reward, we do

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things because we want some type
of reward, or we don't want some

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kind of punishment. And so the
idea was, can we as humanity can

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understand how are being hacked,
hack ourselves and actually kind

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of upgrade ourselves. And I
think now after COVID, we

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actually have ability to do
that, because things slow down.

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And they're, you know, one of
your question is, you know,

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these scary times, and exciting
times, and I think those are

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precisely the times that
actually require us to stop and

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reflect because this is where
wisdom comes from. And I think

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this is where upgrade will come
from. And so, it is about

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practice, it is about tools. And
most importantly, it really is

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about awareness of how we
function. And that's, that's why

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I find those times, so
absolutely exciting and an

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amazing opportunity to actually
change redefine, how things are

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being done, and how are we with
ourselves? Because I think, you

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know, a lot of people are
reflecting and after COVID, you

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know, there's a quiet quitting
this whole bunch of things that

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are happening. And I don't think
they're happening just like

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that, you know, the burnout is
happening. And this is actually

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my newest tech talk that I gave
two weeks ago. And it's not out

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just yet, but it will be out
soon. You know, we you know, we

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want certainty. And we look
around and we see the world

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radicalizing, we feel burnout.
When we look around and we see

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the world burning. We get
frustrated, we look around, we

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see conflict around us. And so
that connection of what happens

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inside and while we actually is
being reflected, I suppose is a

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fascinating one. And, and I
think looking around and seeing

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what's going on, we actually
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Eveline Oehrlich: Upgrading
sounds very attractive, I am

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going to look for your next TED
Talk, of course, but one other

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question ever remember you were
talking about in the second

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humanity, heart, head and body?
Can you elaborate a little bit

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on that and be a little bit more
specific if I want to upgrade my

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head, my heart and my body? My
body? I think, yeah, I'm, you

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know, trying to do that. But
heart and head is something

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which is a thinker to our
listeners and to myself, very

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important, and I'd love to hear
more about it.

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Patrycja Slawuta: Sure. So as I
said, you know, I work,  we work

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as psychologist, we work with
technology that has 300,000

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years and this technology has
evolved over that time and has

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certain rules and has certain
schemes and certain system they

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runs on and so I think of this
as a back so you have the front

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facing kind of a Um, software,
user engagement and recall.

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That's exactly right. And then
there's there's the front end.

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And there's the back end, right?
The front end is the things that

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I see this is, you know, kordia
conversation we're having right

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now. But you don't really know
what's going on in my bucket,

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right? There's whole bunch of
things that are happening

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computation stuff that is
happening. Now for most of the

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people that runs in the
background. What we have done,

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talking about human operating
system is the system that

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actually has 300,000 years, and
it has four parts. And those are

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four big branches of psychology.
So the head is the software,

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right? This is our thoughts.
This is our assumptions that we

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have about the world. How should
this conversation look like?

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This is our biases. This is you
know, what I how I evolved as a

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child growing up in Poland,
moving to New York City and all

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those assumptions what it means
to be a woman when it means to

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be a woman in business, you
know, what it means to be a

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mother, things are such so our
assumptions and expectations

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about the world. And those very
often are a great source of our

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pain, because you know, things
don't look as we want it to

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people disagree with us. And we
know we are absolutely right. We

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want to know what is the truth,
oh, we know what the truth is.

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But you know, all those idiots
around us disagree. So this is

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really the software. So this is
the head. Then the second part

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is the heart. And this is system
one versus system two, as

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Kahneman Tversky will call it
those are our emotions and

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motivations. And this is how we
really make decisions. Right.

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This is what our heart yearns
for, what our dreams and desires

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are. But this is also what keeps
us up at night, when we wake up

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at three in the morning, if some
of us do, right with the

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spinning thoughts and thinking,
oh my god, what what is going to

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be. And so this is really hard.
This is the space of emotions,

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motivations, what motivates us
what we don't want it, what our

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biggest fears that we're not
even willing to admit to

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ourselves. It's a fascinating
space, because this is, you

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know, in my, in my research,
this is where the otherness

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comes from. This is where
secrets lie. This is what you

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know, when conversations that
should be have don't don't

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happen, because we're afraid of
what's going to happen. And

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thinks as such. Then the third
part is actually the hardware

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which so think of the heart as
the electricity that jobs, the

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entire system into action, it
then move towards a move away

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from the third part is actually
the hardware, which is the body.

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The body is ultimately the
hardware, I think what COVID has

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showed us is actually we're not
only the brain, but we actually

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have a body, the body is very
important because it affects

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everything else. It's a giant,
it's a gigantic communication

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antenna, and not only to others,
but also to ourselves, how we

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stand, how our body is actually
very deeply formed our thought

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patterns, flex our mood. Others
react to our bodies, others can

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read our bodies, probably very
often better than we can, our

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nervousness, anxiety, anger
shows in our body. And you know,

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even though we can say, you
know, now I'm perfectly fine,

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others can read that. So it's a
fascinating tool that we can

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work with. And from my
perspective, I actually think

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our breath is the most portable
mind hacking tool that we have.

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Our ability to control,
manipulate, withhold, our breath

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is a fantastic capacity that we
have as one of few species in

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the world. So that's the that's
the third piece is really

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working with the body. And
there's heaps of research about

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embodied cognition that goes,
you know, books written about

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it. And that is really the field
that's, that's blossoming right

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now in my field in behavioral
science. And then the four piece

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is our network is ultimately we
are hardwired to be social, we

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grow up in social environment,
we need others, and others need

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us. And that's beautiful network
of human to human connection is

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actually what nourishes us. And
so my, actually, my newest TED

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Talk talks about distributed
immune systems. So it turns out

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that our immune system is not
only internal, but it's also

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distributed others our number
one source of happiness, one of

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the major sources of health, but
also they deeply affect our

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immune system. And so that is
fascinating how actually our

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relationship to others affect
our directly affect our health

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and functioning of the immune
system. And that's called psycho

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neuro immunology. And it's a
fantastic field of study that is

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connecting everything with
everything. But it's very, very

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cool. And so those four pieces,
pretty much every skill that you

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want to learn has to go through
those four layers if you wish

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of, of stacking. So there's the
mind, very often we make a

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decision to do something we get
excited about something but we

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never follow through, right
because the heart is not there.

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We don't know where to start. So
the hand is not there in a way

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you know, we don't have the
discipline and ultimately we

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don't have the social support.
So very often, you know

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decisions are made people go to
inspirational event that they

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come back to the net work and
then at work pulls up back into

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the old South. Right? So I go
back home, and suddenly I can

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see the old forces working on
me, you know, my mom's saying

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something that I reacted as if I
was seven and not 37 or

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whatever. And so those are the
four elements that we work with.

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And they're very, very nice,
because it's a very nice

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framework that you can hang any
skill set off.

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Eveline Oehrlich: So where do I
start? Let me ask you exactly

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00:20:26,700 --> 00:20:29,670
this question. We're going a
little bit off script. But as

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you know, we're a community,
we're trying to help people to

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00:20:33,060 --> 00:20:37,890
learn new skills, new behavior,
and the community, as you said,

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it's the network, right? The
head, the heart, we at the

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DevOps Institute sometimes feel
like that, we're working on one

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end, where we're trying to get
their head into the game, but if

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their heart is not in the game,
so if I'm an individual, and I'm

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sitting out there right now, if
it's the end of the year, as we

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have new year's resolutions, we
all are trying to wade through

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something. So what would your
advice be for somebody who says,

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hey, 2023 is going to be my year
of success? And I will do x?

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Where do I start? Do I start
with the head, the heart, body?

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Patrycja Slawuta: You start with
them, they actually need to

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stack up because one, we're
running force the other. And so

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first of all, it's the
reflection awareness. You know,

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your awareness is the most
scarce resource in the world. By

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00:21:26,460 --> 00:21:29,400
far as you probably know, their
entire industries that do

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00:21:29,430 --> 00:21:35,130
attention merchanting attention
selling our attention is such a

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valuable resource right now that
companies feed off it. And so

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first of all, do you own your
attention? Do you do can we

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reflect on the year I would
actually start with reflecting

356
00:21:46,020 --> 00:21:48,930
on the year? Like, what do I
actually want? And I think what

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COVID has caused is moloto
People change the protests in

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00:21:52,710 --> 00:21:55,320
the life because it turns out,
you know, it's not necessarily

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00:21:55,320 --> 00:21:58,350
doing the work. It's like, why
am I doing this? And because

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things slow down during COVID, a
lot of people actually had time

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00:22:01,470 --> 00:22:05,460
to slow down and actually
reflect. And a lot of those

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reflections unfortunate,
fortunately, show that Oh, my

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God, what I'm doing is actually
a not making me happy. Why am I

364
00:22:12,060 --> 00:22:15,000
even doing that? I understand
I'm making money, but my income,

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you know, I'm missing how my
children are growing up, or I'm

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a stranger to my partner, or,
you know, what I actually do

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read my diary. Yes, you know,
you will be surprised how common

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this is, for so, so many people.
And so I actually find it

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fascinating because I actually
do think that the human mind is

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the most untapped natural
resource. And so we need to dig

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into those deeper and start
using a full brain. But then

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second of all, like, bring the
heart into it, the things that

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people are willing to do,
because the heart is aligned.

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It's absolutely fascinating. You
know, this is where resilience

375
00:22:53,220 --> 00:22:57,840
lives. This is where creativity
lives. This is where innovation

376
00:22:57,840 --> 00:23:00,690
lives. And so, you know, and
it's not only inspiration, but

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it's also things that frustrate
us, I mean, the amount of

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00:23:03,780 --> 00:23:06,360
amazing things that started in
the world, because somebody

379
00:23:06,360 --> 00:23:09,690
said, you know, enough with
that, we can do better than

380
00:23:09,690 --> 00:23:15,180
this, I understand this is how
things used to be, but I just, I

381
00:23:15,180 --> 00:23:19,380
don't want it anymore. And so,
you know, positivity is

382
00:23:19,380 --> 00:23:22,680
fantastic. But actually being
pissed off with the status quo

383
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is I applaud that, because I've
seen people do amazing things

384
00:23:26,640 --> 00:23:30,120
just by saying, That's it, you
know, we I think we can do

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00:23:30,120 --> 00:23:34,770
different, and we can do better.
So reflect sorry to answer your

386
00:23:34,770 --> 00:23:35,400
question,

387
00:23:35,430 --> 00:23:39,270
Eveline Oehrlich: Reflect, bring
them in. So feel, so reflect

388
00:23:39,300 --> 00:23:42,840
what has happened, then bring my
heart in and feel does this make

389
00:23:42,840 --> 00:23:46,470
me happy? Or am I pissed? And
what do I want to change? Okay,

390
00:23:46,500 --> 00:23:48,960
so I'm there, I'm with you
what's next then.

391
00:23:49,560 --> 00:23:52,200
Patrycja Slawuta: And then you
do the smallest thing possible.

392
00:23:52,230 --> 00:23:54,780
There's a really good book that
I recommend to everybody, I'm

393
00:23:54,780 --> 00:23:57,990
sure you've read it, it's called
atomic habits. But it's the

394
00:23:57,990 --> 00:24:02,220
smallest thing possible that you
can do. Because what it does is

395
00:24:02,220 --> 00:24:07,320
creates this self auto loop and
cognitive dissonance in which

396
00:24:07,350 --> 00:24:09,780
you know, you start doing and
then doing and doing and then

397
00:24:09,810 --> 00:24:14,190
eventually the little habits
become little runs that I used

398
00:24:14,190 --> 00:24:17,400
to do because I am a runner and
becomes identity and you want to

399
00:24:17,400 --> 00:24:20,340
go to the identity ever because
it's the bottom of the stack you

400
00:24:20,340 --> 00:24:24,030
start at the top of the stack,
which is a small action I can do

401
00:24:24,570 --> 00:24:30,390
send a newsletter, do something
speak up whatever it is put up

402
00:24:30,390 --> 00:24:33,270
the website honestly, you know
the amount of websites that in

403
00:24:33,270 --> 00:24:35,610
amount of people say you know,
the poorer the website, they try

404
00:24:35,610 --> 00:24:39,450
to make it perfect. Dan is
always better than perfect by

405
00:24:39,450 --> 00:24:44,460
far. So the smallest thing
possible literally go for run

406
00:24:44,610 --> 00:24:48,960
around the block. Five minutes,
you know, I had the same thing

407
00:24:48,960 --> 00:24:51,480
with meditation. I mean, I am
diagnosed with ADHD. So

408
00:24:51,480 --> 00:24:54,420
meditation is absolutely
excruciating to me, but I keep

409
00:24:54,420 --> 00:24:56,970
hearing how good meditation is
for you. And so I started with

410
00:24:56,970 --> 00:24:59,670
three minute meditation because
that's all like my brain could

411
00:24:59,670 --> 00:25:02,640
handle And I remember even
during even during those three

412
00:25:02,640 --> 00:25:05,010
minutes, I will be had a pen and
paper next to him because I

413
00:25:05,010 --> 00:25:07,950
would get all those ideas. And
then I'll open my eyes and write

414
00:25:07,950 --> 00:25:10,860
things down, which was fine. And
fast forward, I don't know,

415
00:25:10,860 --> 00:25:13,920
maybe two, three years I've been
sitting in, you know, 10 day

416
00:25:13,920 --> 00:25:17,010
silent the task is not to say
that this is, you know, amazing,

417
00:25:17,010 --> 00:25:20,250
and I loved it. But those things
stack up. And I think Warren

418
00:25:20,250 --> 00:25:24,240
Buffett said that the most on
appreciate a lot in investing

419
00:25:24,240 --> 00:25:28,470
and I would say in psychology is
compound interest. Those little

420
00:25:28,470 --> 00:25:33,750
tiny things are compounding.
And, and that's, that's what we

421
00:25:33,750 --> 00:25:36,870
actually put our brain is very
hard to notice that right? Like,

422
00:25:36,870 --> 00:25:40,680
we want big change. Morrow, and
that big change, the more just

423
00:25:40,680 --> 00:25:41,850
doesn't happen. Yeah.

424
00:25:42,200 --> 00:25:43,970
Eveline Oehrlich: To be fit
tomorrow, I want to be

425
00:25:43,970 --> 00:25:47,390
immediately running 10
kilometers. Yes, absolutely. I

426
00:25:47,390 --> 00:25:50,570
want to be a DevOps engineer
tomorrow. So awesome.

427
00:25:51,590 --> 00:25:56,240
Patrycja Slawuta: And the final
piece is the network. And I

428
00:25:56,240 --> 00:25:59,780
think finding people that will
cheer on us or people that we

429
00:25:59,780 --> 00:26:04,490
can learn from, it's absolutely
fascinating to see how willing

430
00:26:04,490 --> 00:26:07,400
people are to help very often
we're afraid to ask for help.

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00:26:08,360 --> 00:26:12,110
And not only that, they cheer on
us. And what I always very often

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00:26:12,110 --> 00:26:14,120
do at the beginning of the year,
because I know we're moving into

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00:26:14,120 --> 00:26:16,220
beginning of the year, or it is
already beginning of the year,

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00:26:16,220 --> 00:26:20,990
and when you're listening to
this, you know, share the vision

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00:26:21,020 --> 00:26:25,340
of where you want to go with the
people that you respect and you

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00:26:25,340 --> 00:26:28,850
care about and ask them to hold
that vision for you. So that

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00:26:28,850 --> 00:26:32,390
they interact with you from that
perspective, you're already

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00:26:32,390 --> 00:26:35,810
there. In other words, they
don't get you off the hook. But

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00:26:35,810 --> 00:26:39,260
they treat you already as a
person who's a runner, who's a

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00:26:39,710 --> 00:26:43,250
ops developer, who's this, you
know, who has written a book, or

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00:26:43,250 --> 00:26:46,760
whatever it is, they create
almost this future self that you

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00:26:46,760 --> 00:26:50,030
can step into, and they act with
you from that perspective. And

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00:26:50,030 --> 00:26:55,370
that that is such a strong pull
forward. Because we do things

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00:26:55,400 --> 00:26:57,890
because we kind of don't want to
disappoint others, you know, we

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00:26:57,890 --> 00:27:01,460
like to the social approval. And
so this is kind of hacking the

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00:27:01,460 --> 00:27:04,430
social approval from so that it
works in our favor.

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00:27:05,280 --> 00:27:08,370
Eveline Oehrlich: You are wicked
good. Oh my god, I could listen

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00:27:08,370 --> 00:27:12,720
and talk to you another many,
many, many minutes. But I want

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00:27:12,720 --> 00:27:15,450
to leave it right there. Because
I think you gave us fantastic

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00:27:15,450 --> 00:27:18,780
advice for the next year. This
has been fantastic. Pretty sure

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00:27:18,780 --> 00:27:22,410
I really, really love it. What
else do you do besides

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00:27:22,410 --> 00:27:25,560
behavioral scientists when you
go for besides running a

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00:27:25,560 --> 00:27:27,900
marathon? What do you do for fun
on the weekend?

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00:27:28,650 --> 00:27:31,650
Patrycja Slawuta: Me? Well, I
just moved to Australia after 13

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00:27:31,650 --> 00:27:35,160
years in New York City. So I'm
trying to learn how to swim

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00:27:35,790 --> 00:27:39,750
properly. And so been exploring
swimming, which is a very

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00:27:39,750 --> 00:27:43,620
different modality. For me, I'm
a very grounded person I like to

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00:27:43,620 --> 00:27:46,470
be on the earth and running is
my connection running is my

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00:27:46,470 --> 00:27:49,680
meditation, I always say running
is my prayer as well. This is

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00:27:49,680 --> 00:27:55,140
how I pray. You know, this is
how I give my thanks in a way.

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00:27:55,800 --> 00:27:58,650
And swimming is a completely
different modality. And I you

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00:27:58,650 --> 00:28:03,420
know, it's completely out of my
comfort zone. It's hard. I'm a

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00:28:03,420 --> 00:28:06,690
bad swimmer. Because I grew up
in Poland, we own the Great

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00:28:06,690 --> 00:28:09,450
Plains, there was no water. And
if you go into the Baltic Sea

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00:28:09,450 --> 00:28:12,750
gets even worse, you don't want
to swim in this thing. And so,

466
00:28:13,470 --> 00:28:17,460
you know, I'm eating humble pie,
and I swim and all those kids

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00:28:17,460 --> 00:28:19,800
next to him because they grew up
by the water. They're all swim

468
00:28:19,800 --> 00:28:24,870
like fish. And I'm like,
splashing. So but it's a

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00:28:24,930 --> 00:28:27,690
changing modality is very
interesting. So I'm seeing

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00:28:27,690 --> 00:28:28,950
myself learn again.

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00:28:29,250 --> 00:28:32,281
Eveline Oehrlich: Wow, what a
challenge. Fantastic. Thank you

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00:28:32,351 --> 00:28:36,440
very, very much. We've been
talking to Patrycja Slawuta. I

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00:28:36,511 --> 00:28:40,600
hope I said your name correctly.
Founder of UnLab and self

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00:28:40,670 --> 00:28:44,759
hackathon entrepreneur mind
hacker, producer, thank you so

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00:28:44,829 --> 00:28:49,059
much for your time. I wish you
the best wonderful, wonderful

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00:28:49,130 --> 00:28:53,500
holidays, enjoy, relax, travel
safely, wherever you go. I know

477
00:28:53,571 --> 00:28:58,012
you love to travel as well. I do
as well. I'm traveling, you're

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00:28:58,083 --> 00:29:01,678
traveling, but we'll go
different directions. So we

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00:29:01,749 --> 00:29:05,908
won't cross our paths. But let's
stay in touch. And for our

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00:29:05,978 --> 00:29:10,208
listeners, this will be really,
really exciting to have more

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00:29:10,279 --> 00:29:14,438
I'll share with you when the new
TED Talk comes out. Again,

482
00:29:14,509 --> 00:29:18,456
thanks Patrycja. Humans of
DevOps Podcast is produced by

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00:29:18,527 --> 00:29:22,898
the DevOps Institute. Our audio
production team includes Julia

484
00:29:22,968 --> 00:29:26,846
Papp and Brendan Lay. I am the
Humans of DevOps Podcast

485
00:29:26,916 --> 00:29:31,005
executive producer Eveline
Oehrlich. If you'd like to join

486
00:29:31,075 --> 00:29:34,812
us on the podcast, please
contact us Humans of DevOps

487
00:29:34,882 --> 00:29:38,760
Podcast at DevOpsInstitute.com.
I'm Eveline. Thank you.

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00:29:41,550 --> 00:29:44,400
Narrator: Thanks for listening
to this episode of the Humans of

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00:29:44,454 --> 00:29:47,896
DevOps Podcast. Don't forget to
join our global community to get

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00:29:47,950 --> 00:29:51,016
access to even more great
resources like this. Until next

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00:29:51,069 --> 00:29:54,458
time, remember, you are part of
something bigger than yourself.

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00:29:54,512 --> 00:29:55,050
You belong