Ben 0:06 Hello and welcome to freelance corner. I'm Ben and this is Orla.

Orla 0:09 Today we're speaking to Lou Nylander, founder and director of marketing consultancy wildflowers of London. In this episode, she'll be speaking to us about her journey into freelancing, and sharing her highs and lows along the way in creating her business.

Hi, Lou, welcome to the show!

Lou Nylander 0:27 Hi, guys, thanks so much for having me.

Orla 0:29 It's lovely to have you here.

Ben 0:31 I think the first thing our listeners will want to know is how did you get into freelancing? And what's your journey been like so far?

Lou Nylander 0:37 I was working and have worked in sort of the marketing media industry for the last like 15-16 years. To be fair, I have always kind of done side hustles and dabbled in things, but basically not to the extent that it would make me any money, obviously, still had to stay with my day job. What really started during the pandemic, was thinking about what was my purpose? Like, what was I doing? Like, what was I getting from my job role, what was I not getting, etc. And so that kind of laid the seed that I could potentially do something new and become a freelancer and go out on my own. But it was scary, who wants to start a new job during the pandemic, like, not very many people. I suppose the main catalyst for it and what drove me forward was the company that was working for at the time was a big ad tech company that was being sold. So I was managing the marketing during that process. And I was looking, and understanding how sort of like investment rounds work and how you've got to pitch yourself to business buying you and stuff like that. So that was really interesting to me on one side, then on the other side, as a global marketing director, I was signing off a lot of because we were getting sold and going through that process. We weren't allowed to bring on full time employees. What we were able to do was work with freelancers, I was like signing off, like, we needed help. I was just getting these freelancers, I was signing up for the budget, and I was like, I gotta be honest, between that sort of, oh, working with that, on that process with sort of like startup acquisition type of thing. And then the whole signing of these invoices, it all sort of came together and I just thought - so first of all, what I actually did was like, had a few chats with people like other freelancers and stuff, and sort of said to them, how do you do it? What do you do, rara and like, one of my really good friends and I actually now work with her, we have a bit of a partnership. I sometimes outsource work for her and she works for my sort of freelance business and I help her out and stuff like that. She just said to me, Lou, you'd be mad not to do it! She's never been so happy, much happier in her life. She's had freedom. So that's kind of where Wildflowers of London, the marketing consultancy was born and yeah, in spring 2021 I took the leap. I registered a company. I you know, I got an accountant and I did all these kinds of things. I quit my job, and then just said, no, look, I want to quit and I want to leave like it's not a you know, it's like, you want to quit, but you don't really want to quit because you want to pay rise. It wasn't that, I really am going, they tried to give me other things. I was like, no, no. I'm going. And yeah, and then and then I started it. And I've been doing it now for 18 months, I did my first year of accounts. I remember going into my accountant and I went - I'm a business woman now! Yes. So yeah, so that's kind of like the squiggly journey wasn't planned. But when I actually look back, I've always done a few side hustles and a few things which actually, were when I really think about it were kind of some of the stepping stones, and allowed me to sort of make some mistakes when it wasn't really high stakes. But now I you know, it was kind of a bit of a training ground one could say.

Ben 3:58 Was it quite apprehensive? Because I can imagine going from a side hustle to that being your full time like what you're doing must be such like a leap in the dark.

Lou Nylander 4:07 Oh, definitely. I think it takes a lot of courage. I don't know how to say this without like putting people down. But I'm just gonna say, basically, when you say you're gonna go freelance to your friends and family, sometimes their own anxieties are reflected back at you like a mirror. So it's just like, how will you pay your bills? Is that clever to do during a pandemic? Oh, but but but you know, you know, what, if this happens, what if that happens? And it's like, whoa, Nelly, like I've already got all of these fears and anxieties myself, and then I'm telling you like that I'm gonna do this. And then I'm kind of getting them back from from you. And I think that can stop a lot of people who have great business ideas and stuff like that moving forward, because if you don't have the support from your friends or your family or your support network, whoever that might be, it can feel incredibly lonely, anxiety inducing, and just such a worry, because ultimately, you're at that stage now where we're all adults, we have to pay our bills ourselves, we can't go back to people saying 'I can't pay my rent, I can't pay for my martgage', it doesn't fly anymore. Once you get over a certain age, you got to you know be self sustainable. So I think that's a worry, I was quite lucky, though. I'm gonna be honest, and my sister, was very supportive of me, she kept telling me I could do it. Even when I would go to her with like, racked with anxiety and fear, she would be like, now go on, give it a go, I think you could do this. So that was really positive. And then I also sought out and it's something that I do in my actual personal professional life sought out mentors, so people that have already done it, and sort of said to them, Do you think I'm mad? Do you think I could do it? And because they have that same sort of mindset, and also they've done it themselves, they all were sort of literally like my cheerleaders. And were like, yeah Lou go, you can do it. And that, obviously made me feel more secure in my decisions. But yeah, it was scary. Yeah,

Orla 6:04 No, that's really interesting. The power of community, you know, it's so real. And it shows, you know, in your story, it'd be great to kind of hear more about how you navigated the logistical side of freelancing, and what would you advise for somebody who you know, is a freelancer, they've got loads of ideas, they want to freelance, but the logistical practical side is kind of daunting and scary for them.

Lou Nylander 6:29 It's really daunting, especially because you think you have to put on all these hats. So you've got to be an accountant, you've got to be a lawyer, you've got to know about insurance, like who knows about insurance? Nobody's born knowing about insurance. So I think it can be quite tough. One of the things I realised is that I don't need to know everything. It's actually fine and leaning on the community, because I think, actually the great thing about freelancers, you think it's going to be lonely, but other freelancers, they get it and they understand, and they will help and support you. Like, I get work from other freelancers. They're like, 'I can't do this. But I'll recommend Lou!'. I do it to other people, like, oh, I can't really do that work - I'll take the briefing, and then I'll be like, 'I'm not sure I'm gonna be able to do this. However, I've got x, y, and z in my network', and let me reach out to them. So I think we all help and support each other from a work perspective, but also from an expertise perspective. So also, like when I was first putting contracts together, I would message other people that were freelancers and be like, so how does the contracting work? Do I do the contract with the client? Does the client contract me? What are the things that I should look out for? Like, who's your accountant? So like, and, you know, my accountant now I found an accountant via friend, he was so good that I've recommended him to like anybody that asked me about freelancing, or just some of my friends that already freelance if they were complaining about their accountant, and so many people have moved across to my accountant, because it's I think it's just about asking questions. I think one of the things that I learned about being a freelancer on your own, one could say, is that you're not actually on your own. And the more you reach out, and don't be on your own, and focus on finding out where areas where you don't have the expertise looking for that expertise, then that's how you actually, you know, grow and do better and learn and all that kind of stuff. So you get yourself out of your comfort zone and get out your head. And don't be too proud. It'll be fine.

Ben 8:33 I bet your accountant loves you

Lou Nylander 8:37 He's setting up a referral scheme. And I'm like, What are you gonna give me? I've given you so many people!

Ben 8:44 Was like the sort of the biggest challenge in transitioning for full time freelancing because when you're a full time work, you never think about the finances in the same way that stuff's all done for you.

Lou Nylander 8:54 For me, it was one of the most challenging things because I knew that - I mean, I'm a bit of a geek. So I read was like Harvard Business Review, and all these like business magazines. And I know that cash flow is really important for small businesses, especially for freelancers. Because what as soon as you start having problems with your cash flow, that's when everything starts tumbling down. So because of that, I'm probably like hyper anxious around that sort of subject. Also, having been working in a corporate environment, I know how slow people can be about paying out, invoices seem to disappear, and you have to keep asking for them four or five times and stuff like that. So that's probably something that I'm I'm hyper aware of it and make sure that I'm on top of it. One of the things that I thought, well, for me worked out quite well when I first started off is that I did my own bookkeeping. So some people outsource their bookkeeping. It really depends how big your businesses is because what if you're getting reams and reams of invoices and stuff like that, and it's really not your skill set and maybe outsource it, but I did it myself because actually, I like to do it. It actually educated me a lot on what was coming in what was coming out timings and all that kind of stuff. And for me, knowledge is power. So then I started to feel less anxious around it all. I'd be like, 'Okay, that's fine, because that gets paid them. But this is gonna get paid here. So this is going to happen and rara, and even if they don't pay exactly on time, as long as they're not more than two weeks late, you'll be able to pay them'. And then that started to make me feel more secure, and also helped me like, discuss different things with Jamie about like, oh, you know, I might want to do this, or what's the most tax efficient way to do that, or - I'm not doing this anymore, but at one point I was thinking about employing somebody, because I've worked with some people on a freelance basis. And I was just trying to work out whether it made more sense for me to employ them or whether to still keep going on a freelancer just sort of employ them as a contractor, etc. From doing the bookkeeping, and understanding and all that kind of stuff. It gave me more knowledge to speak to the accountant about and then work out what the best option for myself is. So even though it's tough, what I would say is, as a freelancer, when you're starting a new business, you just got to lean into it, try and understand as much of it as possible, because the more you understand, the more you're able to communicate, but also find yourself an accountant and one, that you like, and two, that like talks to you in a nice way. Sometimes you have to dumb things down. I do it with my clients. So if I know that they don't understand something, I don't keep saying it to the same way, I must think of an analogy. But yeah, I think it's all about educating yourself, but also bringing in expertise when you're so like, you're totally out of your depth. And numbers are not your thing. And you're being late with your tax return or getting fined, like pay them money and get someone to do it.

Ben 11:49 Yeah, no, exactly. Yeah,

Orla 11:51 Totally. Yeah. I love that.

Ben 11:52 When it comes to the sort of Wildflowers of London, would you mind like describing the business?

Lou Nylander 11:58 Yeah, so Wildflowers of London is actually, is dual pronged. So I set up a women's group six, or seven, that's probably seven years ago now, because I'd moved to southeast London and I was looking for like a just a group of people that live locally to hang out with. And effectively, there wasn't anything like that I thought was great. So I set my own one and started putting on events and brunches and lunches and all that kind of thing with different themes of different speakers for women in southeast London. And then that's now evolved. And it's like a women's professional network, similar sort of thing. We do events and help and empower women in London, but you can come if you're out of London. So that was always like a side hustle on something I always kind of did. It made me do more events, sort of based work events, logistics like speaker outreach, Speaker management, all that kind of stuff, which actually also helped and support me in my existing career. When I decided to go freelance I already had Wildflowers of London branding or what have you. So I was just like, why don't you call the marketing consultancy wildflowers. The marketing consultancy is effectively working with startups and scale ups, often that are seed precede and at Series A size of investment. I primarily work with a lot of companies that are in the technology space, normally advertising technology, because that's my background. But more and more I'm trying to diversify and move out into some sort of different spaces just because it's more interesting for me. And also, it helps me with the passions that I like and enjoy. So I'm working with some social enterprise and CICs. Most of the businesses that I work with are founded by either women or people of colour, because that's also a passion for me, or they are businesses that are either revolutionising or trying to do something that is sustainable or good for the environment. So I mean, it's an element of, because I am freelance, I can kind of choose who I work with and who I'm not. And I definitely feel that I'm much better place to, you know, really push a brand and really excel on sort of marketing and promotion of a brand, what I care about what they do. So I've really tried to work with clients where I feel that there's a synergy between our values.

Orla 14:21 You talked about authentic marketing, and I'm just quite interested in what you think the impacts of authentic marketing is, and why does it matter?

Lou Nylander 14:29 It's a difficult question to sort of answer because it means so many things, different things to so many different people. I struggle to sometimes put into words what I mean, about the clients I work with, when I was like, oh, I want to do things authentically, I want to work with people that are ethical, etc, etc. Because people were like, well, everybody should be authentic or everybody should be ethical. Because it's it's table stakes, really, you'd assume so. But then actually you start working with people and then then you realise that they're not. So I suppose my meanings from it, and the way I view it is that they actually say they have values, our values are aligned, and the way that they practice their business, the way that they market their brand, and the way that they treat their staff and their people are all aligned with my values. And they are doing what they say they're doing, do you see what I mean? So not that you're creating a product, that's great, but actually, the people that work for you are crying, or they can't pay their energy bills, or they can't pay their rent, but the product and the wider industry or wider community think you're great, but actually, do you see what I mean? I don't want to work with companies like that? So if you're bringing out a message about how authentic your product is, or how sustainable your supply chain is, like, I want to see the evidence, is that true? Because I'm a marketer. So I don't want to be responsible for spinning stuff to help you make more money. If intrinsically you're, you know, without being rude. But this is great, right? Like a bad person and a bad business. I just don't want to do that. And I think I want to work with brands that actually and people that want to make this world a better place.

Ben 16:22 Is it hard to know that before, like, a brand that may be really marketed well, and it might seem really ethical. But until you actually get under the bonnet, I assume you don't know.

Lou Nylander 16:32 Yeah. And that's really tough. And it's difficult to sort of find out what I do with most clients, or people that I'm working I work with is that, obviously I try and do my due diligence. I like have chemistry meetings with them, blah, blah, blah, but I also often sign and sometimes this could work to my detriment, but I often only sign a three month initial contract, even if they wanted to go on a retainer, or they wanted to go, I'm like, Look, let's just do three months in the beginning, when we start working. And that works for both of us. Three months for me, because I need to work with you for three months enough to know your business, I understand what you want to do for up but it's three months for you as well. Because you might not like my method, you know, we might not necessarily vibe, circumstances might change, etc. So it it kind of works for both of us. And I kind of use that time to sort of think, oh, okay, is this for me? And is this going to work with my existing clients, my existing workflow, etc, etc. And then if that's the case, then obviously after that three months, sort of, for want of a better word probation period ends, then we can move on to whatever contract terms that we both decide. Personally, as a freelancer, I think freelancers don't do that enough. They get excited, see a client see things and sign up for stuff. And then, you know, it could be for multiple different reasons, but it's not working for them. And then they feel sort of bit uncomfortable about saying, Oh, it's not working for me, I'd probably feel a bit uncomfortable as well. So that's why it's quiet in the beginning stages, I've already sort of set that out that it's an initial three month contract, let's see where we are. And I make sure that I have check ins with them once a month. When I'm getting to the end of that three month period, I make sure I put some time in with that client to be like, so how are we doing? Like, do we want to carry on?

Ben 18:22 Did you do that from the start, though, because a lot of freelancers are quite worried when they start off going, I'm not going to find a client am I going to be able to earn enough as you said earlier for the bills? Were you like from your first ever client? You were like, three months if it doesn't work out, I'm leaving?

Lou Nylander 18:35 No, of course, not! At the beginning, it's so strange, I didn't actually really fully know what I was doing. I just reached out to the network, my network of people and I suppose that's why I love the Women's Network, Wildflowers I work with and I set up myself but I also am part of lots of other sorts of groups of women in communication, a group for black women in communications, marketing, etc, and so like I wasn't too proud when I started freelancing. So I just I just literally what I knew I was definitely doing it and made the website and I literally was all in I just went on WhatsApp, and sent some emails out some LinkedIn messages. It was during the pandemic so I was just like, can we have a virtual coffee? I'm doing this thing, want to pick your brains, got the website out, send out some WhatsApp messages sounds so silly, but you send enough of those messages and something's got to stick. So that's how I kind of got the business but well, obviously, the first couple of clients I've kind of learned from them what to do and what not to do. So I signed a contract with a guy once and I didn't do my due diligence. I didn't put in a sort of a break clause. I did sort of just go along with it. And you know, it was a business that was based broad In North America, I started to realise that the time difference, it being my main client kind of didn't really work for me because they wouldn't wake up until like four o'clock. And then I would kind of feel like, I would have to work on their hours to get any answers, because otherwise, we're always a day behind. And then I was just like, I don't think this is a good vibe or a good fit for me. But until I did it - and that's it, you make loads of mistakes, you just make loads of mistakes, and sometimes, you know, things go in your favour, and sometimes they don't, one of the things that you have to have, when you're a freelancer is just being really resilient, and just being bouncing back and be like, Okay, I tried, it didn't work. Well, I'm gonna learn from that, and what am I gonna be able to do next time, that's not gonna lead me down this like rabbit hole. Well, what you can't do is just get into a rabbit hole of despair. You're kind of on your own, so you gotta just keep going. And you can't sit there and be like, 'wwwah' it's just no, it's never gonna work.

Orla 21:08 No, just got to keep it moving, and also be in touch your community, I suppose, and just lift each other up.

Lou Nylander 21:14 Exactly.

Orla 21:15 Going back to your the community that you built with Wildflowers, what impact do you think wildflowers has had on the community in southeast London, and women in self employment overall?

Lou Nylander 21:27 What I really enjoyed about wildflowers, so we don't really host events in southeast London, per se, because kind of moved further into Kent. So it would be inauthentic for me saying that we've built a community in SE and so that's why it's kind of become generally like a London thing. So the events are normally in town. But one of the things that I think has been really important about Wildflowers, and one of the reasons why I actually created it was that, obviously I put on the event, I found the speakers, I do all of that kind of stuff. But I always said that if two people leave the room, and they meet up outside or a wildflowers event and they form a relationship, that's all I want. And if they never come back to wildflowers, that would be fine. Because it served its purpose, it's connected to people that would have probably not have met each other or wouldn't have had that conversation. So now that people that have come to the event that I've had some sort of like putting on what we're talking about, they've either met either friends or supporters. I know some people that have, you know, set up a little as a side hustle, but they do it together. One of their girls, Laura, who's in the group, she actually only joined the group this year, but she's made that and just so much of an impact. I didn't know this, but she writes poetry. And she's been writing poetry and helping one of the other wildflowers, ladies with an event that she was doing with poetry. So it's kind of like it's quite organic, though, as well. And that's what I like about him. Nobody likes forced fun. It's whether these people have a connection than they get on. So it's difficult for me to say the impact in a way that I suppose is tangible. But I know it's there. Because I can tell because they keep coming back. And they bring new people and they're connecting and doing stuff. And it's creating something. The community always asked me like, when is the next one? Or what are we going to be doing? Or like, oh, no, we you know, we'd really like to do a meet up and stuff. And then that makes me know that it is needed because they want to keep coming back. So then that gives me the validation that that I need.

Orla 23:38 Yeah, sounds great. I mean, just hearing about it makes me want to join one of the sessions.

Ben 23:45 What have been your biggest highs and lows since being self employed?

Lou Nylander 23:50 The biggest highs of being self employed? Well, for me, it was I recently was shortlisted for an award. I think it's called British business excellence. And it's like, sponsored by Lloyds Bank. And it was the new Entrepreneur of the Year Award and I did this whole application, spin it off and all that kind of thing. I just thought oh, never gonna hear anything about it. And then I got this note and it said congratulations. And I was like, oh gosh, but I didn't even open it because I thought it was like Oh, congratulations on this but otherwise I could thanks but no thanks type email. And I didn't open it for two days because I was busy doing something else and I genuinely thought it was gonna give me like 10% or something anyway, I finally opened it and then I realised I'd been shortlisted so that was a real high and I got really excited and call my system was like when that will happen I was like gosh and I must be doing quite good because there were other people that ended and they didn't get shortlisted. So call me that that gave me a bit of validation in that. I don't know if there's like massive lows. I think something that I suppose it's just be mindful of Is that you're alone a lot, you have to make your own decisions. So I think it's more that it's not necessarily like it's a lowest low, it's more just that there are periods, that can be quite lonely because you figure stuff out on your own. And there can be periods, which are quite boring. You know, you've got to do invoicing, you've got to get your accounts in on time, you've got to do like I was on holiday recently. And then I needed to do something for VAT return. So then I was like, Oh, God, get me computer out, ordering something or other over the account, and then making sure it was, and you know what I mean? I mean, literally, it took about maybe half an hour to figure it out. But it was still like, so it's just, I suppose it's understanding that when you work for yourself, when you're freelance, when you're self employed, you kind of are always working, because it's your business, and somebody asks you a question, you can't just be like me out of office design, and I'm not going to get back to you for two weeks, you know what I mean, it's going to affect you. So sometimes it's just easier to respond. So therefore, then, because of that, you never really can switch off. But there's nothing tragic that's happened. So I wouldn't say it's like a either, or I think it's just something that is always going to be there is that you've got to keep on working on.

Orla 26:26 Yeah, and I suppose the positives, you know, outweigh those negatives so much

Lou Nylander 26:32 Oh, for me, I sometimes say to one of my friends, that was one of the catalysts or she probably doesn't realise how much she sort of supported me and empowered me to make the decision to go freelance. But sometimes I can't believe I didn't do this before. For me, it gives me a level of autonomy. Autonomy about the work I do, and also autonomy about the work I produce. It also gives me a way to live my life the way I want to live it. So I sort of alluded to the fact earlier that I've been away, like I spent pretty much all of August, either in Croatia or travelling around Spain. Yes, I've done work sometimes, and there's been days where I've been, you know, on a balcony with my little computer out doing some emails, but there's a level of freedom in the way that I want to live my life that I just don't think I would have, if I was a full time employee, it just, it just wouldn't be possible.

Orla 27:32 Just live your best life, freelancing basically.

Lou Nylander 27:36 Exactly.

Orla 27:36 Love it.

And finally, if you had to pick three things that you found useful or inspiring in your own freelancing career, what would they be and why?

Lou Nylander 27:47 Okay, so some of these are going to be like, practical things like actual things, and then some of them are going to be just like stuff that you should do. So I kind of alluded it to it earlier, but I think everybody should understand where their own competencies are, and understand what they're not good at, and then find people that are better than them at the things that they're not good at. So that their business is like just like functioning and stuff like that, like you shouldn't be missing or tax return, you shouldn't be missing things that are just like, basic, just get them done. And if you can't figure it out, and seem to be able to get them done on time, find somebody that will that you can afford to do it. So that goes back to the account as the legal stuff like that, to me find the community like there are so many different clubs online, there's like if you work in marketing or communications, there's like Freelancer groups that you can join on Facebook, on LinkedIn, or like what some are paid for most are free, or a very minimal cost. I'm a member of one called Copy club, and it's like 20 pounds a month, and they have like events, and you can go to that I think that's great. Freelancer groups are definitely on Facebook and on LinkedIn that you can sign up for and like communicate with different people that are in the same space as you, and I would say, yeah, lean into the Freelancer community. There's lots of people out there. There's also so many free resources online, that if you're confused about something, that you can go and read about, you know how to set up the company or how to move your company from being a limited company to CIC or whatever it might be. There's so many resources out there and organisations that sign up. So my sort of feeling is like, lean into it more than - you don't have to do everything by yourself. And then the third one isn't necessarily like a piece of advice or something to remember I suppose it's just, for me, it's really important when you're if you decide to go freelance or work for yourself or set up your own company or what have you, is just understand what the purpose is. Understand what you're looking to get out of the experience or where you're looking to take the company That sounds quite strange because I did at the beginning, say I didn't know what I wanted when I started the company. I didn't know exactly what the end goal was. So that's definitely true. Since then I've done a lot of sort of thinking around it, and once I did the first year of accounts, and that sort of did quite well, I sat down and thought, okay, so what, what does year two look like? What does year three? In five years, what would I like the business to be like? In 10 years, potentially? What would I like the business to be like, and obviously, the 10 and five are a bit more vague, but the one, two and three, I managed to sort of plan that out, and then that's really helped me moving forward, to have a bit of more of a purpose and an understanding of where I want to go. Like, what type of clients do I want to bring in? Because actually, if I, ultimately in two, three years want to be here, then these are the type of clients I need to be bringing in, I need to probably be employing somebody in the next year or so and start having you know, FTEs to help me grow that growth. So I think another area to sort of think about is really your purpose, like, what is it that you're looking to achieve and for some people, it might just be like, you just want a lifestyle business. You just want money to cover your bills, and you want to travel or what have you, or you want to grow a big agency or a bigger business and employ people and do different things. And that's fine, I think, but if you're not honest with yourself in the beginning, it's really difficult for you to know, and plan, and then in my opinion, that's when things get overwhelming, and there's no plan and no sort of direction. It can be quite problematic. So it was just something to think about.

Ben 31:43 I love that. I think it's a good note to end on. Know what you want to do, and yeah, I hope everyone takes that to heart whose listening. So yeah. Thanks so much, Lou.

Lou Nylander 31:53 Thanks! Thanks for having me.

Orla 31:54 Thanks much and great chatting to you. I'm feeling so empowered right now.

Ben 32:05 That's it for this week's episode. You'll be able to find information on freelancing in the show notes below. And on the freelance corner website.

Orla 32:12 Do you have a question about freelancing that you want us to put to an expert? Drop us an email at content@freelance corner.co.uk. We'd love to hear your queries.

Ben 32:13 If you enjoyed the show, make sure you follow us so you don't miss out on our next episode. You can find us on all major platforms and just let us know we should quiz an expert on next time.