Narrator: You're listening to the Humans of DevOps Podcast, a
podcast focused on advancing the humans of DevOps through skills,
knowledge, ideas and learning, or the SKIL framework.
Hazel Chappell: So that was really, I will say, a turning
point. It was actually a knife in the heart for me, and I
decided just to look at what is locally around me and what how
can I actually have that work life balance, which was hugely
important to me.
Eveline Oehrlich: Hello, welcome to the Humans of DevOps Podcast.
I'm Eveline Oehrlich, Chief Research Officer at the DevOps
Institute. Our topic today is Humanizing Change, Innovating
Health and Care During Digital Transformation. Thank you again
for listening to us and thank you for being here. Today we
have with us Hazel Chapell. I think that is how you say your
name Hazel. Is that correct?
Hazel Chappell: Yes. If that's the way you want it, that's fine
or chapel, whatever.
Eveline Oehrlich: Oh, chapel, alright. I want to make sure
because sometimes, I used to be sometimes a little bit of fun
and when people say my last name, so chapel, alright, Hazel
Chapell. Great. Let me give everybody here a little bit of
an introduction of what about Hazel, and then we just get
right into it. So Hazel is a women business owner
entrepreneur and moved to North America years ago today. She's
actually in Austin, Texas. Now in a pre talk Hazel and I have
figured out that she actually spent her Christmas over in
Europe, where she doesn't reside anymore, but she has family. And
I actually moved and spent my Christmas over in the US so we
probably crossed each other across somewhere on the pond
Hazel through during the time. So she is in the business of
health care and biomedicine with 20 years and more experience,
where she headed up ventures across Europe to include the UK,
Sweden, Spain and Ireland and has a very diverse network in
health care and biomedicine across America and globally.
Hazel is the CEO and founder of ich HCA health Incorporated,
which provides consulting and advisory services around three
key areas. continuous change, which of course is something
we'll talk a little bit about cyber basics one on one, and she
provides Executive Advisory to C suite and small businesses.
She's also an adviser to Austin's Dell med Health
Innovation catalyst program, where she reviews and
contributes to a broad spectrum of entrepreneurial innovative
initiatives. She enjoys speaking on a variety of topics pertinent
to healthcare and biomedicine with a key theme of digital
security in her delivery. And that's really how I found her
when I was looking around for some experts in digital and
particular verticals. So Hazel again, thank you. She's
passionate about reducing risk to businesses and keeping
businesses safe. She has recently been a guest Pam speak
with European Connected Health Alliance on the topic of data
culture around cybersecurity Ireland I actually was listening
to that was quite good. Additional asleep she sorry.
Additionally, she was presenting educator to senior dexus Texas
data leaders on digital transformation includes
leadership. She is also a member of a variety of topics and areas
let me mention a few. Bio North Texas, Texas interoperability
collaborative. Oh my goodness Oh, West Austin and awarded
Alaskan batch. England's digital leadership network health
informatics Society of Ireland and a few other things such as
the H I M S. S. Austin chapter. Welcome to our podcast, Hazel.
Hazel Chappell: Thank you, Eveline. Appreciate you having
me here.
Eveline Oehrlich: Yes, delighted to have you. And I love that we
both have different accents. So this will be a lot of fun
because we can challenge each other. I love Irish. Of course.
I love the Irish accent. And I used to work at a company where
they had a lot of Irish folks. And sometimes we made we laughed
at each other when we said certain words but I promise I
will not laugh at you. And if you promise that you will not
laugh at me either. So the first thing is QA. Am I saying that
correct? Yes, that is correct. It means water in Irish. I saw
that and found that out in your podcast or webinar you did. Tell
us more about the name of your company.
Hazel Chappell: Sure. are. So it's good is the Irish word
translated from the? Well, it's it's the Irish word translated,
meaning water. Now it is actually spelled differently in
the Irish language. UISCE but I did really think about how that
would be actually read. So I went with the phonetic spelling
of it. And while it means water, which is one of the basic needs
of life for health, it's important that it would be clean
water. And I just thought it was pertinent to the business that I
mean, and how for health and wellness.
Eveline Oehrlich: great idea. Love that. If I need a company
name, I will reach out to you now, how did you get into an
involved in healthcare? Give us a little bit about your journey?
Hazel Chappell: Sure. And so from a business point of view, I
had been working internationally in technology, and also within
the financial industry. And at the time, I was in London, and I
had worked in Bloomberg and Reuters. And where I then was
currently in Merrill Lynch, and my daughter, who was turning two
at the time said to me, Mom, when are you ever going to have
breakfast with me? Because you can imagine within that
industry, the hours and the days are long. So that was really I
wouldn't say a turning point. It was actually a knife in the
heart for me, being a mom, and I decided just to take that step
and look at what is locally around me. And what how can I
actually have that work life balance, which was hugely
important to me. So it was really on the back of that, that
I ended up getting the opportunity within what's called
a trust in England. So it's one of the large ecosystems. And
that's how I fell into healthcare within the world of
what's now known as electronic patient record and the beginning
of the digital world. So that was over 20 years ago.
Eveline Oehrlich: Wow. Yeah, being a mother myself. similar
challenges, I decided to shift from a technology vendor into
becoming an industry analyst and joined Forrester in 2006. Little
did I know that I would be gone 70% traveling. And I remember my
kids saying the same thing. Mom, when are you ever going to be
here for my soccer game? So yes, great, great, great change for
you, in my case, wasn't that great. But I know my daughter is
so successful, despite the fact that I've been traveling. Now,
as I mentioned, I've been an analyst for quite some time and
still function. Besides being Chief Research Officer at the
DevOps Institute, I still do quite a lot of work around
researching different topics. One, of course, is to digital
transformation. I heard you say I think it was a net webinar, I
was watching The Digital Transformation actually started
in 2003. In healthcare, I actually was, was quite blown
away by that. But I believe you because you are there, I am not
in the vertical. So when you step back and kind of look at
the topic of digital transformation, and when we
think about the maturity of zero to five, like zero, non existent
and five, it's like high maturity. Where would you say,
the health care in general, I know this is hard, because
there's so many different aspects, but in general, from a
top down, where in terms of maturity is healthcare today,
even you are doing global work, maybe highlight some of the
regions, maybe Americas or North America versus Europe? I think
that would be really great for us, our listeners, because some
of them might be in the health care vertical.
Hazel Chappell: Sure. So I will just also pick up on you know,
that date 2003. And certainly listeners would say no,
actually, it started before then and which I would agree I joined
in 2002 or something like that. And I guess really the the
movements slash momentum had already kickstart for a variety
of reasons. When I was working in the UK. It was about having
one patient one record due to a number of significant, I suppose
patient safety incidents. And then of course, 911 came along
and one could argue that that certainly was the accelerator of
the need to have a more digital footprint and certainly within
healthcare. So I guess I'm one of those people that has
actually come across or you know, worked across the spectrum
from the digitization the digital lives. nation, and where
we are in terms of digital transformation. So if you take
those three angles from us, certainly, I was heavily
immersed within the going from paper, you know, what was called
in, and certainly in England, the Lord George records, in
other words, the physical paper piles, right through to
digitizing those. I feel, I guess, proud and informed and
been able to take lessons learned from, from all those
areas really, and the journey that you mentioned, from where
we are today, ironically, and I will look ahead from a
geographical point of view. So there are pockets of areas,
certainly within Europe. You know, I will say in Ireland,
within England, and certainly going abroad that are still
actually paper records, and certainly within child health.
That is very much the case and looking at how to integrate the
digital health aspect there. It is really, you know, since since
my arrival here in America, I can see that digital is the way
there are a few areas that aren't. And that's just to my, I
suppose linear lens, if I may put it like that. So and then,
of course, then you take countries like Australia that
are doing actually, you know, massive transformation. Now, I
will actually roll back as well to Ireland and say that, I sat
on one of the government advisory committees about as an
expert within the need to implement or to have changed at
the forefront of their digital transformation journey. And it
was my privilege and honor to sit alongside that then CIO,
Richard corporate, who, in my opinion, is that local, global
icon for digital transformation. So it is, there are areas that,
you know, certainly been involved in HIMS, as well and
Health Information Management Society, they support it and
help accelerate that digital maturity from hospital providers
and organizations to achieving certain levels. And what that
actually brings about whether it is to have full what we call
digital transformation and interoperability of data, but
that can actually mean a different things subject to what
the technology is enabling as well. So I guess really to
summarize, everlean, there is, there is so much more to do, I
would say maybe that we're in a two to three, I have no doubt
that there would be people who would actually, you know, who
are listening into this and go, Hey, you know, actually, I think
we're a little bit further afield. And that would be within
those areas pockets, which yet, again, is the siloed. There's
the siloed locations, which can be the challenge to achieving
what the absolute ultimate objectives of digital
transformation is about.
Eveline Oehrlich: So yes, I'm sure we have some folks who
would say one or the other, right, in terms of the maturity,
but it is a fairly complex, as you said, a topic with many
facets and many angles. And but I think, as you said to to
whatever to be three, I think that indicates that, from your
perspective of a practitioner and an expert that are still
more to go. I did look this morning quickly at the agenda in
Davos, as you I'm sure are familiar with the most beautiful
place in Switzerland, hopefully they have some snow and they can
ski. Many leaders are visiting each other and with each other
to make some challenges or to address some challenges. I did
not see a lot around particular verticals, but I will have to
research again for our listeners, take a look at the
W's and what's happening there as always very good. World
Economic Forum has always very, very good content and knowledge
and details around digital transformation. All right now, I
was intrigued by your talk on humanizing change. It was really
music to my ears because we at DevOps Institute are really
focusing on the human aspects of, of these different modern
operating models such as DevOps, agile and so on. And so I have a
quote, I hope this is correct. You said humanizing change is a
vital part of any organization's digital transformation. Taking a
people centric approach has time and time again shown to reduce
risk. minimize cost and foster a culture that embraces change not
only now, but also in the future. In an environment of
rapid and current unprecedented change, we provide the glue that
holds people together in challenging times to deliver
critical outcomes. So don't overlook your organization's
most important asset before conducting digital
transformation. This is absolutely beautiful. I do know
and Gartner and others say that the challenges around digital
transformation is really the culture. So you're hitting, as
we say, in Germany, the nail right on its head, tell us a
little bit more about this humanizing change? What do you
mean by that give us a little more color, because again, I'm
sure many of the listeners are intrigued by your statement and
want to understand more about humanizing change.
Hazel Chappell: Sure. So I may get a little bit passionate
here. For me, so go with me on this. So to me, I suppose as it
infers humanizing is really is all about the people. I found
when I was implementing electronic health records across
any ecosystem, it wasn't about the technology, we as humans are
individuals. So whether there are commonalities that we have,
at the end of the day, we are intrinsically individuals. So
when I talk about the people, it can be people in a variety of, I
suppose it can be broken down. So it can be actually your
customers, it can be the end users, it can be the patients.
But when I talk about people as well, I also talk about the
mindsets. And from that thing, you have to look up behaviors.
Now, a great person I've admiration for is Dr. Bob
Wachter, and he was brought in by the NHS in England to
actually assess and how to improve the National Health
Service in England. And he spoke about people can be the problem,
but people can also be the solution. And that, clearly, the
fact that I'm, you know, recounting his phrase, and
certainly has resonance to with me, in essence, in my opinion,
and experience, people, things don't work unless you involve
the people it is, you know, to actually have them engaged to
actually have them motivated to have them informed, to have them
at what I call the core of which is why that we have, you know,
user centric or human centric approaches, is invalid to
actually accelerate or to expedite and achieve on those
goals that an organization has actually set out. And speaking
with some organizations, you know, certainly within the last
two years, as well, where we're exactly as I say, in an era of
unprecedented change, and the few top cracy of work, when you
take all of that, it is really, absolutely important to ensure
that people are engaged, that they trust that they are
motivated. And what does that that actually look like? Or are
we actually looking at humans, and extrapolating their, their
true skills that perhaps aren't used within the workplace? Well,
that's where we can then look at, you know, costs and the
other aspects as well, reducing risk to, to meet the business
needs. And I'll give you another incident, actually, if you take
a cybersecurity takedown or an incident, people look at the
technology and they start looking at the logs and see why
this happened. And absolutely, you know, and I will take the
example and I'm sure many people across the country who are
hospital systems have been brought down as well, to focus
on the needs of the workforce and ensure that they are well
looked after that they are kept there working around the clock
to ensure that the system is kept up for patients and you
know, for the health of patients, etc. And sometimes
that can actually be forgotten that it's not just about the
technology we need to focus on, whether it's the security
people, whether it's actually the clinicians, how do we ensure
the continuous care of the patients and how do we support
the workforce to help us resolve the issue in hand?
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Eveline Oehrlich: You know, I just remembered a data point,
which was brought up by John Clifton, who is the CEO of
Gallup, they did a research project. And they have been
doing this for quite a while now, I think I want to say maybe
10 years, and I just did a podcast with John Clifton as
well. He said that is 22 findings in the 22 findings on
engagement, only 21% of people are engaged today at their
workplace. I found that sad, but at the same time, I do
understand why. Because there is some reasoning in that report.
But again, I find that really, really sad, and particularly in
the vertical, where you are, and what is so essential,
particularly after the pandemic, and what is in front of us
relative to all of that, that engagement from both the folks
or from all the focus right, has to be addressed. And so really
quite, quite a motivational and quite a passionate topic. So I'm
glad you have passion. And I'm looking forward to additional
conversations on that. Now, as technologists, as you said, Yes,
human humanizing change, and we need to make sure that we engage
and make sure we have engaged folks. What do you see in terms
of challenge across the humanizing change, specifically
in health care? I mean, let me just read really quickly, a
couple of things I experienced recently, my father in law, had
to be in a hospital the last three days for a surgery. And
that was a very pleasant engagement, because the people
there were extremely focused on let's call it patient
experience, were two months ago, in a different hospital, the
experience was completely different to different carriers,
or I don't know what the actual languages but to providers, I
think, is the right word, right from both hospitals. One was
more. I don't know, just very different. I don't want to go
into religion, because actually, one was a religious provider,
which was just a very pleasant experience. What are some
challenges you see across humanizing change within
healthcare?
Hazel Chappell: That's a great question. And I can take it from
different angles, if I may. It's from a business point of view,
and certainly within what I would call the senior management
and leadership suite, and specifically within healthcare,
and I say that rather than actually maybe more of the
Biomedicine or life sciences part is actually the lack of
translation. And what do I mean by that when you actually take a
C suite, you have chief medical officer, you have Chief
Operating Officer, you have chief digital information
officer, so you've chief, you know, Chief, CX, Chief of
chiefs, let's say. So without actually breaking that time,
you've technology of operational, you've, you know,
executive, and then of course, you've actually got the
clinicians in hand. And if you take, for example, a topic like
cybersecurity, which I will add as well is not as prevalent, and
as regular on the agendas, as I would like to see. But that's
another area of passion for me. But when you take in somebody is
presenting that language to the board. It is absolutely my
experience. And I'm very confident in saying that, that
the information that is communicated is not always
clear. I'm actually what does it mean by actually communicating
this information? And what is the impact of that information
being communicated as well? And that is where that whether it is
actually we want we have a digital transformation program
that is starting up what does this look like? The need to have
somebody there translating and understand is absolutely
essential. And you know, I had a great conversation with a leader
from the Department of Defense yesterday and he absolutely
Nuclear agreed with me because even from his world, and going
into commercial world as well, it is an area that, as I say, in
my opinion, is a key challenge. Also, as well that, you know, I
mentioned communications as well, my experiences, what is
really communication look like? So if you take, I use the
analogy of cleanliness between naught and five, you have
somebody who thinks clean is good, or two or three. And then
you have the other end of the scale five, which is perhaps
maybe a little bit OCD. Communication is like that as
well, though, when somebody thinks that communicate
effectively, actually isn't ever measured how it's understood, or
is it expected that it is understood? And what does that
look like, within an organization, I was brought in
to spearhead a failing program at one point. And one of the
first things that when I looked at it was really, you know, and
you spoke earlier about workforce not being engaged.
And, and it was really, because they didn't know what the
leadership were trying to communicate, they were only told
from their direct manager, that this is the instruction that
needs to be done. But having the overarching vision and
objectives was was not very clear. In terms of as well, I
was, you know, the hairs just went up in my arms when you
said, I believe about the patient experience. I'm a
patient as well. And I can categorically say, that
irrespective of what provider system, my goodness, it is
really, you know, sad actually, that how the patient walks in
the door. And the level of interaction is very, very
impersonal. And it really takes a variety of, I suppose people
to understand that everybody is a patient, there are global
leaders across the way who have certainly transformed themselves
because of a loved one or exactly to your point that
you're able to now tell the story around a family member
with a good or and thankfully, it was a very good experience.
And sometimes that can actually be the catalyst for leaders to
really become more empathic and humble, irrespective of the
mentoring or coaching or training that they should be
getting. And my question is, well, why aren't you like that
to begin with, because we all want to be treated as how we
would like to be treated, and how we should be treating other
people in our everyday lives. You know, you mentioned
Eveline Oehrlich: two key words, which are quite important. Of
course, one is communication. And I would add, actually
collaboration. And the second is empathy, as part of our work.
And as part of my work at the DevOps Institute, for the last
five years, we have looked at skills. And you know, of course,
we look at technical schools, and we look at classes, skills,
and framework skills, and all those wonderful things. But we
also look at human skills, we used to call them soft skills.
But as you know, there's nothing soft about soft skills, they're
really hard human skills are hard, and the top two must have
are communication and collaboration, and then empathy.
But at the same time, while these are the top must have
skills, those are the biggest skill gaps across, wait about
3000 data data points this year, which to me, again, is for the
five years or five years, now we have these two gaps, or there's
others. But these are two key gaps. And I do think your point
on leaders and leadership, understanding and having the
right perspective of what is necessary, is something which
hopefully, we will see from leaders in the future, in this
year and further on. We cannot continue this way. That's what I
would say.
Hazel Chappell: And I would agree and if I can just pick you
up and drill down a little bit more on that. So empathy to me
is around actually also having the emotional intelligence and
that to me is a very inherent skill or trait or personality
within somebody. Now, we can all learn and we can read books and
understand it. But if I actually take as well, you know, the
book, what they don't teach you at Harvard Business, School, and
empathy and emotional intelligence is one of those
things for me as well that when you take where certain
leadership are at a certain Ah, you know are our behaviors can
be a little bit, I suppose, solidified, that can be
ingrained on us. So suddenly to have to turn and pivot to become
this empathic leader, and to actually become more humble, is
a big challenge and an uphill battle for those leaders who are
currently in place. But it is, I totally agree with you something
that has to happen to meet the demands of the way that the
challenges that we're encountering today, because our
Gen Z, and our, you know, millennials are coming in, and
they sometimes habit, so whether it's through their dyslexia,
whether it's through who they are, just as people are with
their global, you know, experience of becoming travelled
around and more knowledgeable, but actually, they become more
wise with that knowledge as well, way ahead of our time.
That that is something that I see is going to change a lot
further down the line. And I know that couldn't be perhaps a
contesting comment of mine.
Eveline Oehrlich: And I see that with my daughters as well, as I
was said I was visiting with them in the US with Christmas,
and both of them are professionals. One is an
architect. The other one is an analyst for like, they say that
apple doesn't fall far from the tree. She's in service
management, actually. But But both have very different EQs
than what I would say I had when I was their age, right, the 27
and 25. So absolutely, I think the generational challenges
there will be will we who are I'm a baby boomer, can we learn?
Will we be open enough to adopt? I see that DevOps Institute as
well, we have many young folks who I can learn from, and I
enjoy working with them, because I'm open, but not everybody can
be and will learn. And that gets me to another question. And I
know we are. This one is a little bit around learning.
continuous learning is something we talk a lot about, and a lot
of the HR or learning and development folks aware and
familiar with that. And in this learning also is a key principle
within DevOps. Is that applied within the healthcare industry?
Hazel Chappell: Oh, my goodness, absolutely. Yes. And I would
actually say certainly within biomedicine and beyond as well,
why because it's bad staying relevant. There is so much
innovation, as we know, that's already there, that's coming
down the stream as well. And it's actually about, we need to
be prepared for the unexpected. So whether it is actually you
know, here in Austin as well, you've got the army futures
command, who are looking at innovative ways of for out in,
you know, for the health of their soldiers out in the
warfield. And that is actually happening within healthcare as
well. So even if you take diabetes, how it was treated
years ago, and where it is now, there is a need for clinical
continuous learning. But in terms of businesses, well, you
know, I mentioned earlier about few takasi, and workforce, and
how are we learning and adapting, you know, I was even
looking at the other day, the 20 to 50 new buzzwords of 2020 3am.
I balk in one way, because in some cases, we have to use those
words in our daily deliveries or presentations or whatever,
because other people will be using them. But at the same
time, I'm a big fan of just keeping it plain English. But
when we take, you know, web three and Metaverse and
blockchain from a technology point of view, it is important
even for somebody like myself, who is not Well, shall we say,
let me put it the inverse. There are the technology experts out
there, there are the clinical experts out there. But it is
important that I have an understanding of what this is
about, to be able to do the advisory and consulting as well,
you know, within the the area of business that I that I'm in. So
continuous learning as well, then from an individual point of
view view is always about being self curious. You know, I have
actually created this diagram and this is purely from my
experience of getting unexpectedly involved in
cybersecurity through an absolutely awesome leader,
Charles Archer, and it was actually the exposure to
cybersecurity, that helped to I suppose, develop my curiosity
and in turn that motivated me. So when I look at that And then
the motivation continues my curiosity to keep going and
become cyclical. So there, I've approached your questions from
different aspects. But inherently, you know, I would
always encourage somebody to learn continuously. And I guess
really, you know, an aberration of mine is when people talk
about retiring or don't retire, or shall we say they step back
from their current job at a certain age, so nobody, I know
lots of people who never retire, continuous learning for them,
it's just, you know, it's fantastic to actually see it in
the atrium for the health of the mind, for actually, to my point
in staying relevant. So whether it's technology, I've had the
opportunity to be involved in an absolutely phenomenal effort
here within North Austin. And it's about, you know, supporting
the age and the health and prevention of as well. So those
are different factors from a health point of view. And then
also as well, as I say, innovation is coming down the
line. So whether it is something from cell and gene therapy,
right through to two technologies. I will go back to
why I'm talking about continuous change. It's not going to stop.
Eveline Oehrlich: Yeah. So you said curiosity and excitement.
We do know and read about, you know, quiet quitting, and
burnout and all of that. And I don't want to belittle it,
because it's existing. But as we have a lot of different
listeners from the digital natives, to Gen Z's to Baby
Boomers to maybe some folks who are, as you said, stepping back,
I love that, because I don't really like the word retirement,
I'll never will retire, I'll just step back. But given that
there is also lots of curiosity, and you said you fell into the
cybersecurity because you were curious, what would you advise
some of our listeners to think do or take on to enter the
healthcare industry? Because the healthcare industry vertical,
not just in the US, not just in Europe, across the globe, is
essential for all of us. Because as you said, we need healthy
people we need, we need a healthy planet, but without
healthy people, we can't have a healthy planet. So a couple
words for some advice, what should people think about when
they are due when they want to enter the healthcare industry?
Hazel Chappell: So if I may ask you a question everlean. So that
I can answer your question more articulately? Do you mean from a
technology point of view? Or actually from the care aspect?
Eveline Oehrlich: Both actually technology? Of course, you know,
that's important. Like you said, cybersecurity, and whatever else
is in there. So maybe we go there first. And then from the,
the, the other, the other perspective, what type of
people? What do I need to think about what skills should I have?
And how should I get in? What What should I learn? How should
I prepare? And yes,
Hazel Chappell: so I guess contrary to what you might
think, I'm a great believer, I'm being cynical, but myself there.
I'm a great believer in talking to people and seeking out the
right people who can give their point of view. And, you know, I
have a daughter who's lucky now to what area of her career is
she going to go in, and one can have an inherent instinct of
maybe what good could look like or what their skill set could
be, you know about, but it's also in actually talking to
people and understanding, or sometimes unexpectedly, it's
having that experience that can really just cement where their
area is about having the experience, you know, this is
why they're interns out there are internships I say, as well
to give that experience, volunteer some time, you know,
so whether it's first aid or whether it is actually just I
you know, what can what can I do? There was a point in my
career where I wasn't sure did I actually want to go into
catering so I just literally took I took a bone to Pro to
rang up the top hotels in Dublin and asked can I go and join in
their kitchens for a day, I was lucky that I was actually able
to join the executive chefs and one of Dublin's top hotel. And
to this day, if somebody gave me it to me as a present, it is the
most invaluable because I had the experience the understanding
and to really make that decision. So now cooking is my
passion rather than actually my my my way of living. But so
that's what I would say just reach out to people don't be
afraid to, you know, the right people will want to help and
actually support the younger people coming about or whether
it is it's actually just a complete change of career and
industry in some capacities, because now, a lot of days I see
for example, when I take organizations and look at their
cyber posture, you know, one on one, shall we say, it is
actually industry agnostic, it is using those commonalities.
And then actually, how can you match and transplant and
certainly my experiences, there will be one person who you will
always remember their words and their sayings and maybe you
know, one day become their mentor as well.
Eveline Oehrlich: Beautiful. All right. I have one more question
for you completely different. You already mentioned something
you're doing for fun, which is cooking, but what else do you do
for fun Hazel?
Hazel Chappell: Oh, wow. Now I have a big smile on my face. So
I it can be anything from half a day I flipped my daughter
because we literally and this is a very Irish saying when we're
together having fun, we can be to tittering twits to me
laughter is absolutely is you know, raises the endorphins and
I am so so blessed that I get that with my daughter so so
much. And when I have fun, am I kind of need to, you know, I
suppose clear a few cobwebs. I love doing tennis. So to me
sport in any capacity, even if you're not sporty is good for
the mind and the soul. It can be very relaxing as well. I'm a
little bit of a social butterfly, and it goes back to I
am very blessed to have good people around me that yet again
and I'm unexpectedly finding myself saying that laughter fun
humor is is how I expel an intern. Have fun. And also
remaining curious.
Eveline Oehrlich: If you ever get close to Stuttgart Germany,
please ring me up. I'd love to hang out with you. I invite you
to come and we'll have fun and laugh together. We have been
talking to Hazel Chapelle, global thought leader within the
healthcare industry. Hazel, thank you so much for joining me
today on humans of DevOps. And for our listeners humans of
DevOps podcast is produced by DevOps Institute. Our audio
production team includes Julia Papp and Brendan Lay. I am the
Humans of DevOps Podcast Executive roducer Eveline
Oehrlich. If you would like to join us on a podcast, please
contact us at Humans of DevOps podcast at DevOps institute.com.
I'm Eveline Oehrlich talk to you soon.
Narrator: Thanks for listening to this episode of the Humans of
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