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Narrator: You're listening to
the Humans of DevOps Podcast, a

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podcast focused on advancing the
humans of DevOps through skills,

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knowledge, ideas and learning,
or the SKIL framework.

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Hazel Chappell: So that was
really, I will say, a turning

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point. It was actually a knife
in the heart for me, and I

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decided just to look at what is
locally around me and what how

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can I actually have that work
life balance, which was hugely

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important to me.

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Eveline Oehrlich: Hello, welcome
to the Humans of DevOps Podcast.

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I'm Eveline Oehrlich, Chief
Research Officer at the DevOps

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Institute. Our topic today is
Humanizing Change, Innovating

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Health and Care During Digital
Transformation. Thank you again

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for listening to us and thank
you for being here. Today we

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have with us Hazel Chapell. I
think that is how you say your

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name Hazel. Is that correct?

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Hazel Chappell: Yes. If that's
the way you want it, that's fine

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or chapel, whatever.

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Eveline Oehrlich: Oh, chapel,
alright. I want to make sure

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because sometimes, I used to be
sometimes a little bit of fun

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and when people say my last
name, so chapel, alright, Hazel

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Chapell. Great. Let me give
everybody here a little bit of

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an introduction of what about
Hazel, and then we just get

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right into it. So Hazel is a
women business owner

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entrepreneur and moved to North
America years ago today. She's

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actually in Austin, Texas. Now
in a pre talk Hazel and I have

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figured out that she actually
spent her Christmas over in

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Europe, where she doesn't reside
anymore, but she has family. And

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I actually moved and spent my
Christmas over in the US so we

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probably crossed each other
across somewhere on the pond

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Hazel through during the time.
So she is in the business of

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health care and biomedicine with
20 years and more experience,

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where she headed up ventures
across Europe to include the UK,

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Sweden, Spain and Ireland and
has a very diverse network in

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health care and biomedicine
across America and globally.

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Hazel is the CEO and founder of
ich HCA health Incorporated,

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which provides consulting and
advisory services around three

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key areas. continuous change,
which of course is something

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we'll talk a little bit about
cyber basics one on one, and she

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provides Executive Advisory to C
suite and small businesses.

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She's also an adviser to
Austin's Dell med Health

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Innovation catalyst program,
where she reviews and

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contributes to a broad spectrum
of entrepreneurial innovative

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initiatives. She enjoys speaking
on a variety of topics pertinent

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to healthcare and biomedicine
with a key theme of digital

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security in her delivery. And
that's really how I found her

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when I was looking around for
some experts in digital and

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particular verticals. So Hazel
again, thank you. She's

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passionate about reducing risk
to businesses and keeping

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businesses safe. She has
recently been a guest Pam speak

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with European Connected Health
Alliance on the topic of data

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culture around cybersecurity
Ireland I actually was listening

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to that was quite good.
Additional asleep she sorry.

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Additionally, she was presenting
educator to senior dexus Texas

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data leaders on digital
transformation includes

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leadership. She is also a member
of a variety of topics and areas

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let me mention a few. Bio North
Texas, Texas interoperability

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collaborative. Oh my goodness
Oh, West Austin and awarded

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Alaskan batch. England's digital
leadership network health

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informatics Society of Ireland
and a few other things such as

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the H I M S. S. Austin chapter.
Welcome to our podcast, Hazel.

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Hazel Chappell: Thank you,
Eveline. Appreciate you having

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me here.

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Eveline Oehrlich: Yes, delighted
to have you. And I love that we

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both have different accents. So
this will be a lot of fun

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because we can challenge each
other. I love Irish. Of course.

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I love the Irish accent. And I
used to work at a company where

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they had a lot of Irish folks.
And sometimes we made we laughed

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at each other when we said
certain words but I promise I

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will not laugh at you. And if
you promise that you will not

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laugh at me either. So the first
thing is QA. Am I saying that

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correct? Yes, that is correct.
It means water in Irish. I saw

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that and found that out in your
podcast or webinar you did. Tell

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us more about the name of your
company.

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Hazel Chappell: Sure. are. So
it's good is the Irish word

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translated from the? Well, it's
it's the Irish word translated,

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meaning water. Now it is
actually spelled differently in

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the Irish language. UISCE but I
did really think about how that

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would be actually read. So I
went with the phonetic spelling

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of it. And while it means water,
which is one of the basic needs

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of life for health, it's
important that it would be clean

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water. And I just thought it was
pertinent to the business that I

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mean, and how for health and
wellness.

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Eveline Oehrlich: great idea.
Love that. If I need a company

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name, I will reach out to you
now, how did you get into an

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involved in healthcare? Give us
a little bit about your journey?

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Hazel Chappell: Sure. And so
from a business point of view, I

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had been working internationally
in technology, and also within

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the financial industry. And at
the time, I was in London, and I

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had worked in Bloomberg and
Reuters. And where I then was

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currently in Merrill Lynch, and
my daughter, who was turning two

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at the time said to me, Mom,
when are you ever going to have

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breakfast with me? Because you
can imagine within that

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industry, the hours and the days
are long. So that was really I

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wouldn't say a turning point. It
was actually a knife in the

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heart for me, being a mom, and I
decided just to take that step

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and look at what is locally
around me. And what how can I

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actually have that work life
balance, which was hugely

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important to me. So it was
really on the back of that, that

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I ended up getting the
opportunity within what's called

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a trust in England. So it's one
of the large ecosystems. And

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that's how I fell into
healthcare within the world of

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what's now known as electronic
patient record and the beginning

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of the digital world. So that
was over 20 years ago.

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Eveline Oehrlich: Wow. Yeah,
being a mother myself. similar

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challenges, I decided to shift
from a technology vendor into

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becoming an industry analyst and
joined Forrester in 2006. Little

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did I know that I would be gone
70% traveling. And I remember my

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kids saying the same thing. Mom,
when are you ever going to be

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here for my soccer game? So yes,
great, great, great change for

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you, in my case, wasn't that
great. But I know my daughter is

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so successful, despite the fact
that I've been traveling. Now,

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as I mentioned, I've been an
analyst for quite some time and

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still function. Besides being
Chief Research Officer at the

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DevOps Institute, I still do
quite a lot of work around

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researching different topics.
One, of course, is to digital

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transformation. I heard you say
I think it was a net webinar, I

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was watching The Digital
Transformation actually started

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in 2003. In healthcare, I
actually was, was quite blown

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away by that. But I believe you
because you are there, I am not

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in the vertical. So when you
step back and kind of look at

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the topic of digital
transformation, and when we

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think about the maturity of zero
to five, like zero, non existent

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and five, it's like high
maturity. Where would you say,

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the health care in general, I
know this is hard, because

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there's so many different
aspects, but in general, from a

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top down, where in terms of
maturity is healthcare today,

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even you are doing global work,
maybe highlight some of the

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regions, maybe Americas or North
America versus Europe? I think

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that would be really great for
us, our listeners, because some

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of them might be in the health
care vertical.

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Hazel Chappell: Sure. So I will
just also pick up on you know,

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that date 2003. And certainly
listeners would say no,

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actually, it started before then
and which I would agree I joined

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in 2002 or something like that.
And I guess really the the

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movements slash momentum had
already kickstart for a variety

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of reasons. When I was working
in the UK. It was about having

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one patient one record due to a
number of significant, I suppose

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patient safety incidents. And
then of course, 911 came along

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and one could argue that that
certainly was the accelerator of

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the need to have a more digital
footprint and certainly within

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healthcare. So I guess I'm one
of those people that has

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actually come across or you
know, worked across the spectrum

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from the digitization the
digital lives. nation, and where

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we are in terms of digital
transformation. So if you take

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those three angles from us,
certainly, I was heavily

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immersed within the going from
paper, you know, what was called

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in, and certainly in England,
the Lord George records, in

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other words, the physical paper
piles, right through to

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digitizing those. I feel, I
guess, proud and informed and

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been able to take lessons
learned from, from all those

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areas really, and the journey
that you mentioned, from where

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we are today, ironically, and I
will look ahead from a

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geographical point of view. So
there are pockets of areas,

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certainly within Europe. You
know, I will say in Ireland,

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within England, and certainly
going abroad that are still

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actually paper records, and
certainly within child health.

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That is very much the case and
looking at how to integrate the

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digital health aspect there. It
is really, you know, since since

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my arrival here in America, I
can see that digital is the way

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there are a few areas that
aren't. And that's just to my, I

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suppose linear lens, if I may
put it like that. So and then,

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of course, then you take
countries like Australia that

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are doing actually, you know,
massive transformation. Now, I

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will actually roll back as well
to Ireland and say that, I sat

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on one of the government
advisory committees about as an

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expert within the need to
implement or to have changed at

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the forefront of their digital
transformation journey. And it

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was my privilege and honor to
sit alongside that then CIO,

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Richard corporate, who, in my
opinion, is that local, global

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icon for digital transformation.
So it is, there are areas that,

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you know, certainly been
involved in HIMS, as well and

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Health Information Management
Society, they support it and

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help accelerate that digital
maturity from hospital providers

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and organizations to achieving
certain levels. And what that

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actually brings about whether it
is to have full what we call

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digital transformation and
interoperability of data, but

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that can actually mean a
different things subject to what

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the technology is enabling as
well. So I guess really to

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summarize, everlean, there is,
there is so much more to do, I

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would say maybe that we're in a
two to three, I have no doubt

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that there would be people who
would actually, you know, who

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are listening into this and go,
Hey, you know, actually, I think

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we're a little bit further
afield. And that would be within

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those areas pockets, which yet,
again, is the siloed. There's

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the siloed locations, which can
be the challenge to achieving

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what the absolute ultimate
objectives of digital

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transformation is about.

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Eveline Oehrlich: So yes, I'm
sure we have some folks who

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would say one or the other,
right, in terms of the maturity,

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but it is a fairly complex, as
you said, a topic with many

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facets and many angles. And but
I think, as you said to to

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whatever to be three, I think
that indicates that, from your

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perspective of a practitioner
and an expert that are still

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more to go. I did look this
morning quickly at the agenda in

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Davos, as you I'm sure are
familiar with the most beautiful

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place in Switzerland, hopefully
they have some snow and they can

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ski. Many leaders are visiting
each other and with each other

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to make some challenges or to
address some challenges. I did

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not see a lot around particular
verticals, but I will have to

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research again for our
listeners, take a look at the

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W's and what's happening there
as always very good. World

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Economic Forum has always very,
very good content and knowledge

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and details around digital
transformation. All right now, I

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was intrigued by your talk on
humanizing change. It was really

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music to my ears because we at
DevOps Institute are really

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focusing on the human aspects
of, of these different modern

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operating models such as DevOps,
agile and so on. And so I have a

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quote, I hope this is correct.
You said humanizing change is a

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vital part of any organization's
digital transformation. Taking a

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people centric approach has time
and time again shown to reduce

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risk. minimize cost and foster a
culture that embraces change not

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only now, but also in the
future. In an environment of

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rapid and current unprecedented
change, we provide the glue that

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holds people together in
challenging times to deliver

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critical outcomes. So don't
overlook your organization's

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most important asset before
conducting digital

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transformation. This is
absolutely beautiful. I do know

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and Gartner and others say that
the challenges around digital

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transformation is really the
culture. So you're hitting, as

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we say, in Germany, the nail
right on its head, tell us a

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little bit more about this
humanizing change? What do you

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mean by that give us a little
more color, because again, I'm

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sure many of the listeners are
intrigued by your statement and

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want to understand more about
humanizing change.

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Hazel Chappell: Sure. So I may
get a little bit passionate

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here. For me, so go with me on
this. So to me, I suppose as it

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infers humanizing is really is
all about the people. I found

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when I was implementing
electronic health records across

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any ecosystem, it wasn't about
the technology, we as humans are

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individuals. So whether there
are commonalities that we have,

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at the end of the day, we are
intrinsically individuals. So

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when I talk about the people, it
can be people in a variety of, I

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suppose it can be broken down.
So it can be actually your

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customers, it can be the end
users, it can be the patients.

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But when I talk about people as
well, I also talk about the

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mindsets. And from that thing,
you have to look up behaviors.

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Now, a great person I've
admiration for is Dr. Bob

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Wachter, and he was brought in
by the NHS in England to

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actually assess and how to
improve the National Health

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Service in England. And he spoke
about people can be the problem,

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but people can also be the
solution. And that, clearly, the

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fact that I'm, you know,
recounting his phrase, and

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certainly has resonance to with
me, in essence, in my opinion,

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and experience, people, things
don't work unless you involve

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the people it is, you know, to
actually have them engaged to

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actually have them motivated to
have them informed, to have them

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at what I call the core of which
is why that we have, you know,

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user centric or human centric
approaches, is invalid to

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actually accelerate or to
expedite and achieve on those

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goals that an organization has
actually set out. And speaking

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with some organizations, you
know, certainly within the last

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two years, as well, where we're
exactly as I say, in an era of

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unprecedented change, and the
few top cracy of work, when you

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take all of that, it is really,
absolutely important to ensure

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that people are engaged, that
they trust that they are

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motivated. And what does that
that actually look like? Or are

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we actually looking at humans,
and extrapolating their, their

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true skills that perhaps aren't
used within the workplace? Well,

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that's where we can then look
at, you know, costs and the

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other aspects as well, reducing
risk to, to meet the business

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needs. And I'll give you another
incident, actually, if you take

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a cybersecurity takedown or an
incident, people look at the

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technology and they start
looking at the logs and see why

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this happened. And absolutely,
you know, and I will take the

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example and I'm sure many people
across the country who are

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hospital systems have been
brought down as well, to focus

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on the needs of the workforce
and ensure that they are well

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looked after that they are kept
there working around the clock

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to ensure that the system is
kept up for patients and you

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know, for the health of
patients, etc. And sometimes

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that can actually be forgotten
that it's not just about the

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technology we need to focus on,
whether it's the security

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people, whether it's actually
the clinicians, how do we ensure

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the continuous care of the
patients and how do we support

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the workforce to help us resolve
the issue in hand?

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00:19:52,020 --> 00:19:54,510
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00:20:24,990 --> 00:20:29,310
Eveline Oehrlich: You know, I
just remembered a data point,

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which was brought up by John
Clifton, who is the CEO of

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Gallup, they did a research
project. And they have been

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doing this for quite a while
now, I think I want to say maybe

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10 years, and I just did a
podcast with John Clifton as

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well. He said that is 22
findings in the 22 findings on

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engagement, only 21% of people
are engaged today at their

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workplace. I found that sad, but
at the same time, I do

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understand why. Because there is
some reasoning in that report.

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But again, I find that really,
really sad, and particularly in

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the vertical, where you are, and
what is so essential,

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particularly after the pandemic,
and what is in front of us

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relative to all of that, that
engagement from both the folks

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or from all the focus right, has
to be addressed. And so really

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quite, quite a motivational and
quite a passionate topic. So I'm

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glad you have passion. And I'm
looking forward to additional

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conversations on that. Now, as
technologists, as you said, Yes,

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human humanizing change, and we
need to make sure that we engage

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and make sure we have engaged
folks. What do you see in terms

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of challenge across the
humanizing change, specifically

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in health care? I mean, let me
just read really quickly, a

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couple of things I experienced
recently, my father in law, had

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to be in a hospital the last
three days for a surgery. And

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that was a very pleasant
engagement, because the people

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there were extremely focused on
let's call it patient

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experience, were two months ago,
in a different hospital, the

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experience was completely
different to different carriers,

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or I don't know what the actual
languages but to providers, I

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think, is the right word, right
from both hospitals. One was

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more. I don't know, just very
different. I don't want to go

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into religion, because actually,
one was a religious provider,

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which was just a very pleasant
experience. What are some

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challenges you see across
humanizing change within

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healthcare?

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Hazel Chappell: That's a great
question. And I can take it from

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different angles, if I may. It's
from a business point of view,

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and certainly within what I
would call the senior management

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and leadership suite, and
specifically within healthcare,

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and I say that rather than
actually maybe more of the

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Biomedicine or life sciences
part is actually the lack of

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translation. And what do I mean
by that when you actually take a

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C suite, you have chief medical
officer, you have Chief

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Operating Officer, you have
chief digital information

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officer, so you've chief, you
know, Chief, CX, Chief of

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chiefs, let's say. So without
actually breaking that time,

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you've technology of
operational, you've, you know,

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executive, and then of course,
you've actually got the

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clinicians in hand. And if you
take, for example, a topic like

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cybersecurity, which I will add
as well is not as prevalent, and

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as regular on the agendas, as I
would like to see. But that's

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another area of passion for me.
But when you take in somebody is

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presenting that language to the
board. It is absolutely my

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00:24:19,780 --> 00:24:22,960
experience. And I'm very
confident in saying that, that

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the information that is
communicated is not always

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clear. I'm actually what does it
mean by actually communicating

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this information? And what is
the impact of that information

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being communicated as well? And
that is where that whether it is

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actually we want we have a
digital transformation program

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that is starting up what does
this look like? The need to have

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somebody there translating and
understand is absolutely

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essential. And you know, I had a
great conversation with a leader

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from the Department of Defense
yesterday and he absolutely

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Nuclear agreed with me because
even from his world, and going

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into commercial world as well,
it is an area that, as I say, in

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my opinion, is a key challenge.
Also, as well that, you know, I

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mentioned communications as
well, my experiences, what is

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really communication look like?
So if you take, I use the

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analogy of cleanliness between
naught and five, you have

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somebody who thinks clean is
good, or two or three. And then

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you have the other end of the
scale five, which is perhaps

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maybe a little bit OCD.
Communication is like that as

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well, though, when somebody
thinks that communicate

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effectively, actually isn't ever
measured how it's understood, or

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is it expected that it is
understood? And what does that

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look like, within an
organization, I was brought in

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to spearhead a failing program
at one point. And one of the

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first things that when I looked
at it was really, you know, and

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you spoke earlier about
workforce not being engaged.

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And, and it was really, because
they didn't know what the

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leadership were trying to
communicate, they were only told

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from their direct manager, that
this is the instruction that

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needs to be done. But having the
overarching vision and

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objectives was was not very
clear. In terms of as well, I

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was, you know, the hairs just
went up in my arms when you

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said, I believe about the
patient experience. I'm a

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patient as well. And I can
categorically say, that

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irrespective of what provider
system, my goodness, it is

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really, you know, sad actually,
that how the patient walks in

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the door. And the level of
interaction is very, very

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impersonal. And it really takes
a variety of, I suppose people

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to understand that everybody is
a patient, there are global

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leaders across the way who have
certainly transformed themselves

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because of a loved one or
exactly to your point that

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you're able to now tell the
story around a family member

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00:27:20,950 --> 00:27:24,430
with a good or and thankfully,
it was a very good experience.

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And sometimes that can actually
be the catalyst for leaders to

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really become more empathic and
humble, irrespective of the

383
00:27:31,480 --> 00:27:34,360
mentoring or coaching or
training that they should be

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getting. And my question is,
well, why aren't you like that

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to begin with, because we all
want to be treated as how we

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would like to be treated, and
how we should be treating other

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people in our everyday lives.
You know, you mentioned

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00:27:52,950 --> 00:27:59,070
Eveline Oehrlich: two key words,
which are quite important. Of

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00:27:59,070 --> 00:28:01,650
course, one is communication.
And I would add, actually

390
00:28:01,650 --> 00:28:05,790
collaboration. And the second is
empathy, as part of our work.

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And as part of my work at the
DevOps Institute, for the last

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five years, we have looked at
skills. And you know, of course,

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we look at technical schools,
and we look at classes, skills,

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00:28:15,690 --> 00:28:18,240
and framework skills, and all
those wonderful things. But we

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also look at human skills, we
used to call them soft skills.

396
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But as you know, there's nothing
soft about soft skills, they're

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00:28:25,620 --> 00:28:30,300
really hard human skills are
hard, and the top two must have

398
00:28:30,690 --> 00:28:34,950
are communication and
collaboration, and then empathy.

399
00:28:35,370 --> 00:28:38,610
But at the same time, while
these are the top must have

400
00:28:38,610 --> 00:28:44,160
skills, those are the biggest
skill gaps across, wait about

401
00:28:44,190 --> 00:28:49,020
3000 data data points this year,
which to me, again, is for the

402
00:28:49,020 --> 00:28:53,460
five years or five years, now we
have these two gaps, or there's

403
00:28:53,460 --> 00:28:58,590
others. But these are two key
gaps. And I do think your point

404
00:28:58,590 --> 00:29:03,180
on leaders and leadership,
understanding and having the

405
00:29:03,180 --> 00:29:07,380
right perspective of what is
necessary, is something which

406
00:29:07,380 --> 00:29:13,020
hopefully, we will see from
leaders in the future, in this

407
00:29:13,020 --> 00:29:18,210
year and further on. We cannot
continue this way. That's what I

408
00:29:18,210 --> 00:29:18,660
would say.

409
00:29:19,620 --> 00:29:21,660
Hazel Chappell: And I would
agree and if I can just pick you

410
00:29:21,660 --> 00:29:28,020
up and drill down a little bit
more on that. So empathy to me

411
00:29:28,020 --> 00:29:31,830
is around actually also having
the emotional intelligence and

412
00:29:31,830 --> 00:29:38,010
that to me is a very inherent
skill or trait or personality

413
00:29:38,010 --> 00:29:42,210
within somebody. Now, we can all
learn and we can read books and

414
00:29:42,210 --> 00:29:47,070
understand it. But if I actually
take as well, you know, the

415
00:29:47,070 --> 00:29:51,600
book, what they don't teach you
at Harvard Business, School, and

416
00:29:51,720 --> 00:29:54,690
empathy and emotional
intelligence is one of those

417
00:29:54,690 --> 00:29:58,200
things for me as well that when
you take where certain

418
00:29:58,200 --> 00:30:02,820
leadership are at a certain Ah,
you know are our behaviors can

419
00:30:02,820 --> 00:30:06,300
be a little bit, I suppose,
solidified, that can be

420
00:30:06,300 --> 00:30:10,440
ingrained on us. So suddenly to
have to turn and pivot to become

421
00:30:10,440 --> 00:30:14,910
this empathic leader, and to
actually become more humble, is

422
00:30:14,910 --> 00:30:18,630
a big challenge and an uphill
battle for those leaders who are

423
00:30:18,630 --> 00:30:23,700
currently in place. But it is, I
totally agree with you something

424
00:30:23,700 --> 00:30:28,050
that has to happen to meet the
demands of the way that the

425
00:30:28,050 --> 00:30:31,140
challenges that we're
encountering today, because our

426
00:30:31,140 --> 00:30:35,580
Gen Z, and our, you know,
millennials are coming in, and

427
00:30:35,580 --> 00:30:40,860
they sometimes habit, so whether
it's through their dyslexia,

428
00:30:40,860 --> 00:30:44,010
whether it's through who they
are, just as people are with

429
00:30:44,010 --> 00:30:47,220
their global, you know,
experience of becoming travelled

430
00:30:47,220 --> 00:30:50,880
around and more knowledgeable,
but actually, they become more

431
00:30:50,880 --> 00:30:54,450
wise with that knowledge as
well, way ahead of our time.

432
00:30:54,810 --> 00:30:58,470
That that is something that I
see is going to change a lot

433
00:30:58,470 --> 00:31:01,890
further down the line. And I
know that couldn't be perhaps a

434
00:31:01,890 --> 00:31:04,140
contesting comment of mine.

435
00:31:04,890 --> 00:31:07,050
Eveline Oehrlich: And I see that
with my daughters as well, as I

436
00:31:07,050 --> 00:31:10,740
was said I was visiting with
them in the US with Christmas,

437
00:31:10,740 --> 00:31:12,450
and both of them are
professionals. One is an

438
00:31:12,450 --> 00:31:16,200
architect. The other one is an
analyst for like, they say that

439
00:31:16,200 --> 00:31:18,660
apple doesn't fall far from the
tree. She's in service

440
00:31:18,660 --> 00:31:24,240
management, actually. But But
both have very different EQs

441
00:31:25,050 --> 00:31:29,730
than what I would say I had when
I was their age, right, the 27

442
00:31:29,730 --> 00:31:33,780
and 25. So absolutely, I think
the generational challenges

443
00:31:33,780 --> 00:31:38,100
there will be will we who are
I'm a baby boomer, can we learn?

444
00:31:38,280 --> 00:31:42,840
Will we be open enough to adopt?
I see that DevOps Institute as

445
00:31:42,840 --> 00:31:46,350
well, we have many young folks
who I can learn from, and I

446
00:31:46,350 --> 00:31:50,550
enjoy working with them, because
I'm open, but not everybody can

447
00:31:50,550 --> 00:31:54,750
be and will learn. And that gets
me to another question. And I

448
00:31:54,750 --> 00:32:00,390
know we are. This one is a
little bit around learning.

449
00:32:00,390 --> 00:32:04,140
continuous learning is something
we talk a lot about, and a lot

450
00:32:04,140 --> 00:32:08,490
of the HR or learning and
development folks aware and

451
00:32:08,490 --> 00:32:12,240
familiar with that. And in this
learning also is a key principle

452
00:32:12,240 --> 00:32:16,710
within DevOps. Is that applied
within the healthcare industry?

453
00:32:18,840 --> 00:32:21,270
Hazel Chappell: Oh, my goodness,
absolutely. Yes. And I would

454
00:32:21,270 --> 00:32:24,630
actually say certainly within
biomedicine and beyond as well,

455
00:32:24,660 --> 00:32:27,990
why because it's bad staying
relevant. There is so much

456
00:32:27,990 --> 00:32:31,440
innovation, as we know, that's
already there, that's coming

457
00:32:31,440 --> 00:32:36,600
down the stream as well. And
it's actually about, we need to

458
00:32:36,600 --> 00:32:42,960
be prepared for the unexpected.
So whether it is actually you

459
00:32:42,960 --> 00:32:45,690
know, here in Austin as well,
you've got the army futures

460
00:32:45,690 --> 00:32:51,540
command, who are looking at
innovative ways of for out in,

461
00:32:52,050 --> 00:32:55,710
you know, for the health of
their soldiers out in the

462
00:32:55,710 --> 00:32:58,770
warfield. And that is actually
happening within healthcare as

463
00:32:58,770 --> 00:33:02,130
well. So even if you take
diabetes, how it was treated

464
00:33:02,130 --> 00:33:06,300
years ago, and where it is now,
there is a need for clinical

465
00:33:06,300 --> 00:33:10,740
continuous learning. But in
terms of businesses, well, you

466
00:33:10,740 --> 00:33:16,020
know, I mentioned earlier about
few takasi, and workforce, and

467
00:33:16,140 --> 00:33:19,680
how are we learning and
adapting, you know, I was even

468
00:33:19,680 --> 00:33:26,340
looking at the other day, the 20
to 50 new buzzwords of 2020 3am.

469
00:33:26,760 --> 00:33:32,310
I balk in one way, because in
some cases, we have to use those

470
00:33:32,310 --> 00:33:36,660
words in our daily deliveries or
presentations or whatever,

471
00:33:36,660 --> 00:33:39,870
because other people will be
using them. But at the same

472
00:33:39,870 --> 00:33:43,740
time, I'm a big fan of just
keeping it plain English. But

473
00:33:44,580 --> 00:33:50,040
when we take, you know, web
three and Metaverse and

474
00:33:50,070 --> 00:33:54,270
blockchain from a technology
point of view, it is important

475
00:33:54,390 --> 00:34:00,150
even for somebody like myself,
who is not Well, shall we say,

476
00:34:00,480 --> 00:34:03,660
let me put it the inverse. There
are the technology experts out

477
00:34:03,660 --> 00:34:06,690
there, there are the clinical
experts out there. But it is

478
00:34:06,690 --> 00:34:09,330
important that I have an
understanding of what this is

479
00:34:09,330 --> 00:34:14,430
about, to be able to do the
advisory and consulting as well,

480
00:34:15,390 --> 00:34:21,180
you know, within the the area of
business that I that I'm in. So

481
00:34:22,110 --> 00:34:25,470
continuous learning as well,
then from an individual point of

482
00:34:25,470 --> 00:34:30,450
view view is always about being
self curious. You know, I have

483
00:34:30,450 --> 00:34:34,020
actually created this diagram
and this is purely from my

484
00:34:34,020 --> 00:34:37,650
experience of getting
unexpectedly involved in

485
00:34:37,650 --> 00:34:42,600
cybersecurity through an
absolutely awesome leader,

486
00:34:43,200 --> 00:34:48,420
Charles Archer, and it was
actually the exposure to

487
00:34:48,420 --> 00:34:55,500
cybersecurity, that helped to I
suppose, develop my curiosity

488
00:34:55,800 --> 00:35:00,630
and in turn that motivated me.
So when I look at that And then

489
00:35:00,630 --> 00:35:04,320
the motivation continues my
curiosity to keep going and

490
00:35:04,320 --> 00:35:10,230
become cyclical. So there, I've
approached your questions from

491
00:35:10,380 --> 00:35:14,250
different aspects. But
inherently, you know, I would

492
00:35:14,250 --> 00:35:19,230
always encourage somebody to
learn continuously. And I guess

493
00:35:19,230 --> 00:35:22,200
really, you know, an aberration
of mine is when people talk

494
00:35:22,200 --> 00:35:26,190
about retiring or don't retire,
or shall we say they step back

495
00:35:26,190 --> 00:35:30,210
from their current job at a
certain age, so nobody, I know

496
00:35:30,210 --> 00:35:33,930
lots of people who never retire,
continuous learning for them,

497
00:35:33,930 --> 00:35:36,870
it's just, you know, it's
fantastic to actually see it in

498
00:35:36,870 --> 00:35:41,970
the atrium for the health of the
mind, for actually, to my point

499
00:35:41,970 --> 00:35:45,510
in staying relevant. So whether
it's technology, I've had the

500
00:35:45,510 --> 00:35:50,640
opportunity to be involved in an
absolutely phenomenal effort

501
00:35:50,640 --> 00:35:54,360
here within North Austin. And
it's about, you know, supporting

502
00:35:54,360 --> 00:36:00,330
the age and the health and
prevention of as well. So those

503
00:36:00,330 --> 00:36:03,120
are different factors from a
health point of view. And then

504
00:36:03,120 --> 00:36:06,900
also as well, as I say,
innovation is coming down the

505
00:36:06,900 --> 00:36:11,160
line. So whether it is something
from cell and gene therapy,

506
00:36:11,160 --> 00:36:15,600
right through to two
technologies. I will go back to

507
00:36:15,600 --> 00:36:20,040
why I'm talking about continuous
change. It's not going to stop.

508
00:36:20,400 --> 00:36:23,730
Eveline Oehrlich: Yeah. So you
said curiosity and excitement.

509
00:36:24,030 --> 00:36:27,300
We do know and read about, you
know, quiet quitting, and

510
00:36:27,330 --> 00:36:30,240
burnout and all of that. And I
don't want to belittle it,

511
00:36:30,240 --> 00:36:33,570
because it's existing. But as we
have a lot of different

512
00:36:33,810 --> 00:36:37,380
listeners from the digital
natives, to Gen Z's to Baby

513
00:36:37,380 --> 00:36:40,950
Boomers to maybe some folks who
are, as you said, stepping back,

514
00:36:41,130 --> 00:36:43,920
I love that, because I don't
really like the word retirement,

515
00:36:43,920 --> 00:36:47,820
I'll never will retire, I'll
just step back. But given that

516
00:36:47,880 --> 00:36:50,850
there is also lots of curiosity,
and you said you fell into the

517
00:36:50,850 --> 00:36:54,840
cybersecurity because you were
curious, what would you advise

518
00:36:54,870 --> 00:37:01,830
some of our listeners to think
do or take on to enter the

519
00:37:01,830 --> 00:37:04,410
healthcare industry? Because the
healthcare industry vertical,

520
00:37:04,500 --> 00:37:09,240
not just in the US, not just in
Europe, across the globe, is

521
00:37:09,270 --> 00:37:12,660
essential for all of us. Because
as you said, we need healthy

522
00:37:12,660 --> 00:37:15,690
people we need, we need a
healthy planet, but without

523
00:37:15,690 --> 00:37:18,480
healthy people, we can't have a
healthy planet. So a couple

524
00:37:18,480 --> 00:37:23,520
words for some advice, what
should people think about when

525
00:37:23,520 --> 00:37:26,400
they are due when they want to
enter the healthcare industry?

526
00:37:27,390 --> 00:37:30,090
Hazel Chappell: So if I may ask
you a question everlean. So that

527
00:37:30,090 --> 00:37:33,270
I can answer your question more
articulately? Do you mean from a

528
00:37:33,270 --> 00:37:37,350
technology point of view? Or
actually from the care aspect?

529
00:37:38,250 --> 00:37:40,800
Eveline Oehrlich: Both actually
technology? Of course, you know,

530
00:37:40,800 --> 00:37:45,330
that's important. Like you said,
cybersecurity, and whatever else

531
00:37:45,330 --> 00:37:48,930
is in there. So maybe we go
there first. And then from the,

532
00:37:49,200 --> 00:37:52,290
the, the other, the other
perspective, what type of

533
00:37:52,290 --> 00:37:55,830
people? What do I need to think
about what skills should I have?

534
00:37:55,830 --> 00:37:59,640
And how should I get in? What
What should I learn? How should

535
00:37:59,640 --> 00:38:02,130
I prepare? And yes,

536
00:38:02,640 --> 00:38:04,920
Hazel Chappell: so I guess
contrary to what you might

537
00:38:04,920 --> 00:38:09,150
think, I'm a great believer, I'm
being cynical, but myself there.

538
00:38:09,360 --> 00:38:13,800
I'm a great believer in talking
to people and seeking out the

539
00:38:13,800 --> 00:38:19,710
right people who can give their
point of view. And, you know, I

540
00:38:19,710 --> 00:38:24,060
have a daughter who's lucky now
to what area of her career is

541
00:38:24,060 --> 00:38:30,030
she going to go in, and one can
have an inherent instinct of

542
00:38:30,060 --> 00:38:33,510
maybe what good could look like
or what their skill set could

543
00:38:33,510 --> 00:38:37,380
be, you know about, but it's
also in actually talking to

544
00:38:37,380 --> 00:38:41,760
people and understanding, or
sometimes unexpectedly, it's

545
00:38:41,760 --> 00:38:46,080
having that experience that can
really just cement where their

546
00:38:46,110 --> 00:38:49,530
area is about having the
experience, you know, this is

547
00:38:49,530 --> 00:38:54,240
why they're interns out there
are internships I say, as well

548
00:38:54,240 --> 00:38:57,990
to give that experience,
volunteer some time, you know,

549
00:38:57,990 --> 00:39:02,160
so whether it's first aid or
whether it is actually just I

550
00:39:02,790 --> 00:39:05,730
you know, what can what can I
do? There was a point in my

551
00:39:05,730 --> 00:39:09,660
career where I wasn't sure did I
actually want to go into

552
00:39:10,380 --> 00:39:15,840
catering so I just literally
took I took a bone to Pro to

553
00:39:15,840 --> 00:39:19,140
rang up the top hotels in Dublin
and asked can I go and join in

554
00:39:19,140 --> 00:39:23,850
their kitchens for a day, I was
lucky that I was actually able

555
00:39:23,850 --> 00:39:28,830
to join the executive chefs and
one of Dublin's top hotel. And

556
00:39:28,830 --> 00:39:33,150
to this day, if somebody gave me
it to me as a present, it is the

557
00:39:33,150 --> 00:39:36,390
most invaluable because I had
the experience the understanding

558
00:39:36,780 --> 00:39:40,530
and to really make that
decision. So now cooking is my

559
00:39:40,530 --> 00:39:47,070
passion rather than actually my
my my way of living. But so

560
00:39:47,160 --> 00:39:50,430
that's what I would say just
reach out to people don't be

561
00:39:50,430 --> 00:39:53,820
afraid to, you know, the right
people will want to help and

562
00:39:53,820 --> 00:39:57,090
actually support the younger
people coming about or whether

563
00:39:57,090 --> 00:40:01,050
it is it's actually just a
complete change of career and

564
00:40:01,080 --> 00:40:05,730
industry in some capacities,
because now, a lot of days I see

565
00:40:05,730 --> 00:40:10,350
for example, when I take
organizations and look at their

566
00:40:10,350 --> 00:40:15,540
cyber posture, you know, one on
one, shall we say, it is

567
00:40:15,540 --> 00:40:19,710
actually industry agnostic, it
is using those commonalities.

568
00:40:19,740 --> 00:40:23,370
And then actually, how can you
match and transplant and

569
00:40:23,370 --> 00:40:27,570
certainly my experiences, there
will be one person who you will

570
00:40:27,570 --> 00:40:31,830
always remember their words and
their sayings and maybe you

571
00:40:31,830 --> 00:40:34,140
know, one day become their
mentor as well.

572
00:40:35,490 --> 00:40:39,450
Eveline Oehrlich: Beautiful. All
right. I have one more question

573
00:40:39,450 --> 00:40:42,690
for you completely different.
You already mentioned something

574
00:40:42,690 --> 00:40:45,750
you're doing for fun, which is
cooking, but what else do you do

575
00:40:45,750 --> 00:40:46,590
for fun Hazel?

576
00:40:47,670 --> 00:40:51,090
Hazel Chappell: Oh, wow. Now I
have a big smile on my face. So

577
00:40:52,500 --> 00:40:57,120
I it can be anything from half a
day I flipped my daughter

578
00:40:57,120 --> 00:41:01,080
because we literally and this is
a very Irish saying when we're

579
00:41:01,080 --> 00:41:06,090
together having fun, we can be
to tittering twits to me

580
00:41:06,090 --> 00:41:11,670
laughter is absolutely is you
know, raises the endorphins and

581
00:41:11,910 --> 00:41:15,420
I am so so blessed that I get
that with my daughter so so

582
00:41:15,420 --> 00:41:22,170
much. And when I have fun, am I
kind of need to, you know, I

583
00:41:22,170 --> 00:41:25,800
suppose clear a few cobwebs. I
love doing tennis. So to me

584
00:41:25,800 --> 00:41:30,090
sport in any capacity, even if
you're not sporty is good for

585
00:41:30,090 --> 00:41:35,070
the mind and the soul. It can be
very relaxing as well. I'm a

586
00:41:35,070 --> 00:41:38,880
little bit of a social
butterfly, and it goes back to I

587
00:41:38,880 --> 00:41:42,360
am very blessed to have good
people around me that yet again

588
00:41:42,450 --> 00:41:46,890
and I'm unexpectedly finding
myself saying that laughter fun

589
00:41:46,890 --> 00:41:56,250
humor is is how I expel an
intern. Have fun. And also

590
00:41:56,250 --> 00:41:57,600
remaining curious.

591
00:41:58,740 --> 00:42:01,170
Eveline Oehrlich: If you ever
get close to Stuttgart Germany,

592
00:42:01,200 --> 00:42:07,200
please ring me up. I'd love to
hang out with you. I invite you

593
00:42:07,200 --> 00:42:10,530
to come and we'll have fun and
laugh together. We have been

594
00:42:10,530 --> 00:42:14,070
talking to Hazel Chapelle,
global thought leader within the

595
00:42:14,070 --> 00:42:19,140
healthcare industry. Hazel,
thank you so much for joining me

596
00:42:19,140 --> 00:42:23,880
today on humans of DevOps. And
for our listeners humans of

597
00:42:23,880 --> 00:42:27,660
DevOps podcast is produced by
DevOps Institute. Our audio

598
00:42:27,660 --> 00:42:31,470
production team includes Julia
Papp and Brendan Lay. I am the

599
00:42:31,470 --> 00:42:34,500
Humans of DevOps Podcast
Executive roducer Eveline

600
00:42:34,530 --> 00:42:38,010
Oehrlich. If you would like to
join us on a podcast, please

601
00:42:38,010 --> 00:42:42,090
contact us at Humans of DevOps
podcast at DevOps institute.com.

602
00:42:43,260 --> 00:42:45,570
I'm Eveline Oehrlich talk to you
soon.

603
00:42:49,320 --> 00:42:51,420
Narrator: Thanks for listening
to this episode of the Humans of

604
00:42:51,420 --> 00:42:54,960
DevOps Podcast. Don't forget to
join our global community to get

605
00:42:54,960 --> 00:42:58,350
access to even more great
resources like this. Until next

606
00:42:58,350 --> 00:43:01,800
time, remember, you are part of
something bigger than yourself.

607
00:43:02,100 --> 00:43:02,850
You belong