Ben 0:06 Hello, and welcome to freelance corner. I'm Ben, and this is Orla.

Orla 0:09 Today we're speaking to serial entrepreneur Alison Grade. Alison is a career freelancer and founder of Mission accomplished, a consultancy that offers training, mentoring, and strategic advice, which transforms creative ideas into a business reality. She's already transformed the careers of thousands of people with her best selling book, The Freelance Bible, and in this episode, we're going to be picking her brains on how you can secure new opportunities as a freelancer and ultimately, win work.

Welcome to the show. Alison, it's lovely to have you here.

Alison Grade 0:46 Oh, it's an absolute pleasure to be with you guys. Thank you for inviting me on.

Ben 0:50 Hi, Alison, to kick us off, it'd be great if you could tell us a little bit about how you got into freelancing, and what your journey was up until you wrote your book,

Unknown Speaker 0:57 My career started off to university where I realised that you know, those big grown up corporate jobs really, really weren't for me and I kind of ran a mile from the Freshers Fair and thought, well, I quite fancy working in Telly, maybe I should just give that a go, and so I thought, well, I can always go and get a proper job afterwards. I've never had a proper job since so worked in film and TV, and that was really where I started experiencing what it was like to be a freelancer because I just went from short term contract to short term contract, always having to find the next piece of work for me to do so worked my way up the greasy pole of freelancing in film and TV, became a production manager, and then thought of hiring loads of freelancers. So just had lots and lots of engagement with freelancers over the years. I got to a place where I was head of production in a range of different film and TV companies, I was looking for the next challenge. So I decided I was going to go to business school and get an MBA, because that was going to lead me on to my next big challenge. So I did that and it was absolutely brilliant, because I learned lots and lots of tools and strategies and met some really smart, really exciting people, and came out of that and again, I've thought, well, maybe I'll try the grown up job thing. Got a job in strategy team of a big media company, and it was great fun, but it just it wasn't a good fit for me really big company. So that was when my entrepreneurial juices really got flowing. I started my first business, which was Girls Angels. We specialised in teaching women how to ride motorbikes, which was amazing, fun and quite crazy. I did that for a few years, sold it at a trade sale. And really it's since then, that I've really started doing was the really the bulk of the work that I do now, which is working with freelancers and entrepreneurs and helping them transform their ideas into a business reality. And that comes out of all the TV production work I did - producer says, Hey, Alison I've got this idea for a show, how are we going to make it? That's an idea, turning into a reality. The MBA gave me the tools and the strategies to change that into, how do I work with freelancers? How do I work with small businesses and take them to that place? So that's really kind of been my journey. And then the book came out of a series of observations around a project I was doing with a university about employability for students, and I just observed that the universities didn't have - they had great support if you wanted to get a job in the Career Service, a great sport, if you want to start a business. But business talks, the language of teams and investment and prototypes and... freelancers don't talk that language. So what are you doing for the freelancers? And there wasn't any support. There just wasn't that information and that sort of like, well, there's pain here, the students aren't getting this information, where's the opportunity? And that's very much where the book was born out. And I thought, well, hang on. There's no literature out there. I've been a freelancer all my career, I've hired loads of freelancers, and worked in so many different ways. I think I know this subject quite well, I'm gonna give it a shot. And here we are!

Orla 3:57 Great! I think that's really amazing that you've taken that knowledge that you've accumulated through your own experiences over the years, and you've turned it into, you know, a really accessible format. It would be really interesting to know, what are your top tips for the ideal email pitch when reaching out to potential clients?

Ben 4:13 Oh, that's such a good question Orla. It's got to be short. It's got to be short, that ideal email, it's really tempting to send a really long email, you know, war and peace, here we go. But, you know, and I definitely learnt it the hard way, and my great mentor taught me that a winning email, you want it to take 15 seconds to read to win 15 minutes of somebody's time. So it's all about the headlines, you know, a quick hello. And then that hook line, what's the problem or need you perceive the cost? But how how do I think about it from a customer's point of view? Customer focus thinking, how do we think about it from their point of view? And then what's the premise? You know, why am I the best person? What's my proof? If I can give some proof in this 15 seconds, so, talk to this person, maybe you know them, 'look at this article I've done look at this piece of work I've done, how about we have a quick call for 15 minutes,' you know, if I get an email like that someone going, Hey, you run training courses. I would like to do this that the other, you know, if you can sell it to me in 15 seconds, I'm gonna say yes, it's really easy to respond to your understanding what my pain point is, why would I not want a call? If I have to go through reams and reams and reams of email, and 55 questions and a whole load of pitch decks and everything. Oh that's quite a lot, I don't have time to deal with that. Now I'm gonna put it to one side, and it's just gonna keep sitting on one side until I feel really, really super guilty that haven't replied to it. So keep it short. You're just trying to get through the door. It's thinking about it as a long game. It's not about 50 quid now it's about building that relationship with somebody to 500 quid over that period of time if you like.

Does that also extend to like subject lines as well? Like, if you get an email and something seems a bit salesy, or a bit too much in the subject line, I mean, I'll skip over it, but then I'm not hiring freelancers, does that apply to that as well?

Unknown Speaker 6:05 Yes, subject line that is interesting. And I do sometimes sit and look at those for quite some time, what's going to get that person's attention? If they've not had, I'm thinking if this person I'm writing to have they heard of me? Or maybe they've heard of you Ben, and you've mentioned their name, so I might then say, oh, Ben suggested that I get in touch or introduction from Ben or something like that. So I'm thinking what's gonna get that person's attention, what's gonna give them credibility, but I'm not really thinking like a B to C, you know, mass marketing, email, click bait-y, because people are gonna see through that. So there's this authenticity that freelancers have, because quite often, you know, this is person to person one to one sales, I'm selling my value my services to a client, so it's very much personal sale. So actually, less is more - fewer emails, really well researched, really well thought through that adds weight that you know, spend your time doing the research, rather than sending out hundreds of emails.

Orla 7:11 Yeah, that's really valuable advice. Essentially, it's, you know, quality over quantity that's going to pay off really, in the long run.

Unknown Speaker 7:19 If you look at it from the perspective that 'I want to add value to my clients', you know, why is the client going to hire me as a freelancer? Well they're gonna hire me for one of two reasons, either, because I have specialist skills that I bring. They don't need those specialist skills in that company full time, they just need them, and they're going to pay a price for them as and when they need them. So that's one reason that company might hire me. The other reason is because they are really busy, and they need extra capacity. So I'm going to work out why that client is going to come to me, but they're going to come to me because I can add value, they're not hiring you because they want to give to charity, I am going to be there because I'm going to deliver against a strategic objective for that client, I'm gonna hit their key performance indicators, their outcomes their objectives, whatever it is they have a need and they need me or whoever, as a freelancer. So I want to be thinking like, Why do I add value? Who are the clients? Who are the companies? What are the sectors? Where can I add the most value? What's my secret sauce? Why are clients gonna hire me? So the more research I can do around that, to find out who are those people that are really a good fit for me, but I can add the most value, they're gonna care about me, they're gonna love me, we're going to want to work together loads because I add so much value. So if I do that big piece of research, maybe I only come up with half a dozen people, but that's half a dozen people who are really going to get because I've already done that research, I know I can add value, it's just going to jump off the page.

Ben 8:20 What do you think about social media platforms like LinkedIn and Twitter? I know we've talked about email, but how do you feel about those platforms, to secure work and future clients?

Unknown Speaker 8:56 I'm not a super, super sophisticated social media person in terms of like, hundreds of thousands of followers, tonnes of posting, but you know, they absolutely have a really valuable place. So if I'm looking up a freelancer, I do a lot of work in film and TV, there's two key databases I go to: IMDb (Internet Movie Database) you know, what credits does the person have? And I go to LinkedIn to see what their profile says, who have they been working with? What have they done? So minimum you need is to have your LinkedIn profile up to date with what you want to be sharing, what you've done. I mean, I'm less about all of the posting, you know, because it is for me much more about that personal service and that side of things. But, you've got to have that LinkedIn profile up there, make connections with people that you know, start to build that network that adds real value. But when we think about, you know, social media, what does social media do? It builds awareness of you. So if you post loads, if you do lots of posting on Twitter or LinkedIn, Instagram, Facebook, whatever it is, that builds awareness. But that's only part of the, if you like the customer buying journey, that's the first part - awareness. So people have got to, if someone's going to hire your services as a freelancer, they've got to be aware of you. So social media can absolutely help with that. But once they're aware of you, they've got to like you, they've got to think you're kind of credible in some way, shape, or form. So moving from awareness, you've got to get someone to like you and think you're credible, then they've got to try you out, and then hopefully, they come back for more. And for me, social media can only get you to the awareness piece, if you're writing useful information, or they come to your profile, they go, oh, yeah, I like her. She's credible. That's great. How do I get them from liking to trying? And that's where I need to reach out and make that personal connection with people because I don't think social media is going to take an individual bespoke freelancer all that way down to trying that often, so it helps to build that conversation. But it's also about joining the conversation in the sectors you want to be in. So hashtags - brilliant, follow hashtags, join the conversation, if it's Facebook, join the groups be part of those conversations. So you're not just broadcasting to that same halo of people that you're talking to all the time. But being mindful of that customer buying journey awareness - liking, trial, repeat, because what we want to do is build up clients who have tried us out and then come back for more because that's enlightened self interest as a freelancer. If my clients come back for more, I can sell them the next thing, whilst I'm being paid to talk about the thing I'm doing currently, and I don't have to do so much marketing!

Ben 11:37 Yeah you can't be marketing all the time, you've actually got to do some actual work. But yeah, moving on to existing clients, how does a freelancer have a conversation with an existing client about increasing day rates or trying to get more out of what they're doing?

Alison Grade 11:50 So again, that comes back to that customer focus thinking piece for me, understanding the value. What's my secret sauce? How am I delivering value for that client? I'm moving the conversation away from trading time for money to a value driven conversation. So you're not equating it so much as this is my day rate. Well, actually, because I can do something in two hours while it might take somebody else a week to do, because I have that experience. So it's worth what it's worth. But we're looking to really look at how do we deliver value to our clients, so that becomes a no brainer, they can't afford not to have us as part of their team delivering for their company because it just makes sense. So, you know, it's thinking about, well, how do I as a freelancer deliver value? Am I fulfilling a need for a client? Am I helping them grow their sales? Am I opening up a new opportunity? Am I saving the money on the bottom line? What is the objective? What am I doing? And how does that fulfil that need? If it's a film and TV crew, you're fulfilling a need, they've been greenlit, they've got production, they need crew. So you're fulfilling a need. If you're making Tik Tok content for a brand, you're helping to drive sales, you're opening up sales. Perhaps you're creating a training video for somebody, meaning that everyone can do a training course at home for an hour, instead of 100 people in a room for day, that's saving money on the bottom line. So thinking about how you're delivering the value rather than what your day rate is, if you like, so that's part of it, and then if you think about, well, how do I put my rates up, you absolutely do have to put your rates up. And what's really hard is that the chances are, you'll lose some clients along the way. Because there will be clients who won't go with you. And it happens at all stages that happens when we're starting out, and it happens at all sorts of stages throughout our freelance career. We grow out of clients, they won't go any further. But we also grow into new clients. So if we pull our prices up, the chances are we can do less work and earn the same amount of money. That builds capacity, and allows us to find and look for those clients that we're going into. Practicalities of putting our prices up, we've got to decide, I'm going to put my prices up. So I decided I'm gonna put my prices up. I can choose how I do that. I can do like January the first, right, I'm gonna put my prices up. Or I can say, right, well, these people haven't had a price rise for a while this project finishes, I'm going to put the prices up next time, whatever strategy works for you with your clients, but you've got to decide you're going to put your prices up, then you've got to tell the client, you're going to put the prices up. And at that point, there's only two things that can happen. They can agree well, that's fantastic, happy days, we'll move on, or they can disagree. And then you as a freelancer have a choice. Either you walk away, or you carry on as before, and that's kind of the decision you need to make before you tell the client that you're going to put the prices up. Are you going to walk away? Or are you going to stay if they say no? Because if they if you stay when they've said no, you're just going to feel resentful, especially if other people put their prices up. So you have to think about that. But you just have to believe in yourself if you know you're doing good work, you know, people say, Well, what's a good time, when should I put my prices up? If you're really, really, really, really busy, and you've got work coming out of your ears, that's absolutely the indicator, you should put your prices up because everyone's heard, you're really good, and you're good value. So put your prices up. Yes, you'll lose a few of those clients. But you'll own the same amount of money, you'll get some capacity. So that's kind of how I approach it.

Orla 15:28 So I was just thinking, there are also platforms like Upwork and Fiverr, etc. Essentially, these virtual marketplaces for freelancers where you can sign up online and get clients through that digital space. However, they also take a fee of up to 20% of your earnings. So what do you think about platforms like Upwork for freelancers? Do you think is worth using them?

Unknown Speaker 15:51 I like to look at the the high street of shops and go you know, I live in Birmingham, I can go to the city centre to which is the local high street to me really, one end of it I've got Primark at the other end, I've got Selfridges. So for me, the freelancing marketplace is growing up, it's evolving. That absolutely is the Primark end of the scale. And that absolutely is the Selfridges end of the scale, and there's all sorts of shops in between. So for me, those freelance platforms are a price sensitive market, it's all about the lowest possible price, you're going to get the clients on there, who only want to pay the lowest amount of money. And that can be fantastic to supplement income, it can be a fantastic place to start out. It can be, I mean, actually, if you niche down in some really key data analytics tech ways, it's actually not that low price, because there are certain things where somebody will just put your website for you in a really tacky way that is beyond me. But I know, there's some really techy stuff that actually can command quite a lot of money because it's a very specific thing, that if you know, that's what you want to be done, and you know, it's a ball ache, you'll just pay somebody to do it. So it's not all the lowest possible price, but a lot of it is so you've got to decide, are you playing in that market? Or are you playing in the more luxury designer under the market, which is kind of what we've been talking about already, where your specialist services, you're adding value, and equally, I shop in Primark and I shop in Selfridges. There's no reason I can't shop in both. It's not an either, or, these platforms are absolutely here to stay. If anyone hasn't seen it Fiverr did the most hilarious spot commercial in the middle of the Superbowl a couple of seasons ago, when it was a play on the Donald Trump failed press conference after he lost the election at the Four Seasons garden centre, and it's hilarious and it's on YouTube. But you know, the fact that FiVER, take a spot advert in the commercial break of the Superbowl says these platforms are here to stay. They are part of our freelancing ecosystem, we can choose to engage, they do this thing. That's how they do it, you're not going to change it. Does that work for the type of freelancing you offer? Yes? No? That's up to you.

Ben 18:05 We'll definitely have to put that ad in the show notes, people will have to see it, after they finish listening to us.

Unknown Speaker 18:11 It's absolute genius and every time you watch it, there's another layer. It's so well produced! From a film producers perspective, there's just so many little nuggets in there.

Ben 18:22 To be fair, I don't think even I've seen it. So I'm gonna have to look at it after this. So, you know, I'll get back to you at some point about it. But talking about the more the luxury end of the freelance market, the Selfridges, we hear a lot about niching down and freelancing on that sort of end of the spectrum. What's the importance of a niche? Like, why should they have one?

Unknown Speaker 18:43 Niching down is really about being able to explain why me, why am I the right person to add value in your company right now. And it's being able to explain that and being really clear that that's where you add value, and that's what we're talking about, and a client will know that they come to you for those specialist skills. That's what they're after, and they know that that's what they're getting. So it's all about understanding where your value is for your clients. If I go back to that special skills piece and and how, as a freelancer, you know, clients hire you either because you've got special skills, or because you add capacity, I think that's an area where if you're niching, down in a certain space, so say you're niching down to do social media for brands or whatever, you could sell your services, especially skills, you know, to a company or startup or a charity or somebody who doesn't have the resources or the need to have somebody in house all the time. So you go over as specialist skills. Equally, you could work for an agency as a freelancer, they've got a load of extra clients and they need someone with special skills. What's important to understand is where that client is on the journey of understanding about that subject. So if you're going to that start up, the conversation might be, which is our primary platform? Is it Instagram? Is it Tik Tok? Is it LinkedIn? Is it Facebook? Is it YouTube? No, what is our primary platform? Who might we be trying to target? How would we reach out to them? What might that look like? That might feel like primary school, if you're like, a huge social media expert, but whereas if you go into add capacity, it's gonna be a much more technical conversation, right? So we've got this client, they need Instagram stories they need two a day, and you need to promote them, or whatever else, it might be kind of thing. So how would you go about that? You know, so you're gonna have different conversations. So I think, for me, when you're niching, down, it's really important to think, where's my client at on this line, because they want you because you're an expert. But don't go into the client with special skills and baffle them with science, about your Instagram, Business Manager, ads, whatever, whatever thing, you know, because it's gonna go so over their head, that they're not going to understand it. So you've got to put your arm around those clients and help them go on that journey and build that trust and that rapport. So that's where the niching down, you can sort of miss in the communications unintentionally, if you like.

Orla 21:07 So thinking about that, and applying that kind of thinking about creative freelancers, I think creative freelancers kind of have a rep for wanting to do loads of different things at the same time and kind of being a bit more generalised. I'm quite curious about what your advice would be for a creative who wants to freelance has interests in a lot of different practices, for example, graphic design, writing and web design. But they're finding it hard to decide what to actually niche down in? Where do they begin? Alison, what would your advice be for that type of situation?

Alison Grade 21:42 I think it's interesting, because I think when you bring creative skills, I think where it can get confusing is that there are lots of different sectors where you can put them in. So if I just took that graphic design piece, a graphic designer could sell their services to a company, who needs a whole branding, exercise and logos and everything else. Equally, they could go in and support with social media, graphics, creation for posts and pictures. Equally, they could go into a corporate comms environment, and create PowerPoints and posters and all sorts of things for companies. Equally, they could go on to a film set and do the graphic design, there's so many different places those graphic design skills can be used. So then it becomes rather than thinking about this as what I do, I'm a graphic designer, it becomes like, why me, my style, my influences? Who's gonna like me? So that's when you start to realise that actually, you can probably operate in all of those sectors, but only with a certain subset of clients who like your flavour of graphic design, your style, your approach, creative freelancers, really, I challenge them to think about, you know, that, if you like that artistic statement, where is their creativity coming from, and then how you translate that into why customers are going to care why they're going to buy from you and, and I think that's where sometimes there can be so many opportunities, but really understanding their flavour of creativity and the value that that adds, if you like, that's what you're looking for, and then actively not trying to silo yourself to go, I'm just going to walk in that space, but I'm going to live my creativity across these places.

Orla 23:25 Yeah, that's really, really helpful. Because I think it's so easy as a creative freelancer, when you're just starting out, it can be quite overwhelming. And actually, what you're saying is, if you just have your signature style, you can cross the border with many different things.

Alison Grade 23:41 And that's your secret sauce. That's what you're going to do best, you know, resonate with what you do best. And I mean, one freelancer who I still work with a lot, I mentored her really early days in her career, and we now collaborate a lot. Her and a couple of friends were starting out to just after they left uni to build a design agency. Then they came to me, I was mentoring them, and they came to me and they presented their designs, and they were like, they were really boring and really corporate, and we had this kind of really fantastic mentoring conversation where I was like, but guys, this isn't you you're like, You're in your early 20s. You know, you've spent all this time telling me how you know about social media, and you can do this digital thing, and all the companies you're aiming at, are people older than me, who don't know about it and want to sell a product to your audience. So why this and they they went away and they came back and they rebranded as Yep. Media, young entrepreneurs pioneering and they really owned their value of their youth their engagement and that understanding together with that knowledge and I think sometimes it's quite easy to forget some of the values that you bring, maybe you don't have experience but you know, about the youth thing or you know about something that other people don't know about. What does that package look like? Because that is valuable as much as any technical skills you have.

Ben 25:08 I love that it's like sort of embrace yourself. I mean, because you haven't got like a younger company or business saying this is our house style, you create your own house style, I guess. Yeah, I love that. I love that. Well, what if you think about people who go really far into a niche, and they silo themselves accidentally, how would you say they can pivot, like if someone's doing like digital marketing, and they want to get into freelance journalism, is that too much of a leap? Have you sort of gone too far down one road to go into the other?

Alison Grade 25:37 You've just got to give it a try. But you've got to be realistic about what the why so, you know, some of the most leftfield, things that I've done, have come out, or, well, I've got this great client relationship, you know, and if that was the case, I was working with a client or a really niche down and social media, who's doing really well, and I'm looking to build up in that journalistic space, could I do something in that vein for you, because we already have a relationship might be a pro bono thing to start off with just to kind of get my crowds get my chops going with that, to show that. So, you know, some of the most leftfield things that come to me I've been, but also we're already working with you in this, but could you do something like this? And you know, 'yes, of course I could!' Pedal furiously, and work it out. So I think it kind of goes both ways. But people will hire you in for the first time as a freelancer based on your credibility, your track record, quite often, what you've done, how you present yourself, and all of that, how you present what you've done, and why you're the best person to deliver that format. So the credibility piece gets you through the door, what gets you asked back nine times out of 10 is yes, let's assume, let's assume everyone always does a good piece of work, because nine times out of 10 and 99 times out of 100, people always do a good piece, what what gets you off back is being a nice person to work with. And so don't underestimate being a nice person to work with. So if you've niched down somewhere, and you've got good clients, that's a great place to if you think long client, there might be an opportunity for you to branch out more widely, that will help you with where you're trying to go build on that relationship, they probably trust you to do that.

Orla 27:18 For sure.

Ben 27:19 That makes sense.

Orla 27:20 And finally, Alison, if you had to pick three things that you found useful or inspiring for your freelancing career, what would they be? And why?

Unknown Speaker 27:29 I think that, like, well, I've talked about why me an awful lot. You know, I'm definitely inspired by the work of Simon Sinek, who wrote Start With Why. And that 'why me' piece, because the moment I'm talking about why me I'm talking in terms of my customer's language, and then the customer, my client can understand why I add value so that for me is really important. I also resonate with this quote from Alice in Wonderland, where Alice is standing at the crossroads, and she meets the cat, and the cat says, Oh, where are you going? And Alice says, well which way should I go? And the cat says, well, that depends on where you're going. And Alice says, well, I don't know. And the cat says, quite rightly, well, it doesn't matter which way you go. You know, for me, that's about owning your freelance career and thinking like the CEO of your freelance career, I really encourage freelancers to own their careers, think like a CEO. So when they're at that crossroads, they've got a sense of which direction they want to go in. And that's probably not going to be true the whole way through your careers. There's definitely been times when I've just bobbed along, taking what's come up. But there's also been very strategic times where I go, right, I'm gonna do this, and I'm gonna get to this point, I'm gonna do that. But understanding that you are the CEO of your freelance career, it's up to you to decide what direction you want to go in, and all of that. And I think that's a hat that freelancers struggle with, particularly early on, because they're not expecting to be a CEO. They haven't been a CEO. They're not at that place. So starting to try and take that ownership and thinking like a CEO is really, really valuable.

Ben 29:10 I hope everyone who's listening today feels empowered. Yeah, you are your own CEO. Thank you so much, Alison. It's great speaking to you today.

Orla 29:19 Thank you so much. That's been really inspiring, and I'm feeling like I'm ready to absolutely boss my day.

Alison Grade 29:27 Excellent! My work is done. Thanks so much for having me!

Ben 29:34 That's it for this week's episode. You'll be able to find information on freelancing in the show notes below, and on the freelance corner website.

Orla 29:41 Do you have a question about freelancing that you want us to put to an expert? Drop us an email at content@freelance corner.co.uk We'd love to hear your queries.

Ben 29:52 If you enjoy the show, make sure you follow us so you don't miss out on our next episode. You can find us on all major platforms and let us know what we should quiz an expert on next time. Thanks for listening.