Ben 0:06 Hello, and welcome to freelance corner. I'm Ben, and this is Orla.

Orla 0:09 Today we're speaking to Luan Wise. Luan is a chartered marketer, social media consultant, trainer and author. Her self published book has won a National Indie Excellence Award and her social media planner was listed by the independent as one of the nine best books for entrepreneurs. Luan will be speaking to us about social media, and how freelancers should market themselves online.

Hi Luan, welcome to the show.

Luan Wise 0:32 Hi, good to see you both!

Ben 0:36 I think the first thing our listeners will be thinking is, what is your journey into freelancing? And how's it been so far?

Luan Wise 0:42 I've been freelancing for 11 years now. 11 years, September 2022. I guess everyone has their own journey into it. But mine was with my previous employer, they were my first client. It was a joint discussion relationship with them. So I guess you know, there wasn't kind of a stop and start something new or have to kind of have this blank sheet of paper and go I'm a freelancer. Now, what do I do, I transitioned over period from, from being an employee to working with them as my first client. So now, you know, something that I'm hugely grateful for, that wasn't a huge transition apart from having to speak to HMRC, get an accountant and do all the admin and the things that you kind of go, oh, I didn't really think about this, I'm, I'm running a business, I think that's the biggest thing about freelancing is you are running a business, it's, it's not another job. There's all that kind of admin and prep and resources that goes around it.

Ben 1:44 Before we move on to the social media and you know, running your own business and everything. What was it like getting a second client then because if your first client was your old employer, the second one must have been like, oh, actually, I'm a proper freelancer now, in a way.

Luan Wise 1:57 My second client, there's also a story to this and it's a lovely one, my second client was confirmed in my first official week of being a freelancer and it was actually my employer, from my university holidays, that would have been like 15 years ago. So I'm originally from from Cambridge, I have a network in Cambridge and my placement manager, I kept in touch with her. She's one of my best friends now, you know, told her what I was doing. She was in a meeting in Cambridge, internally, someone had said, you know, we're looking for a freelancer, she mentioned my name, and it was like, Luan worked for us behind the bar in this building when she was a student. So went and had a meeting, caught up with them, and so yeah, weirdly, but also very lovely my second client was the state management team at the University of Cambridge, and it was where I'd worked as a nineteen, twenty year old and then I was back in my early thirties, as their marketing consultant, and I guess that's always my biggest takeaway tip from any reflection is the power of your network, the power of relationships from, you know, from from years that they can go back, and people remember you, and I mean, different forms of life and what you're doing and what you're working on as well. So hugely valuable to kind of keep in touch with people and let them know what you're doing.

Ben 3:28 I think that's really a good piece of advice. I mean, I don't know what my network is? Orla, I don't what yours is?

Orla 3:34 Yeah I'm just reflecting, wondering, hmm who are my network, how am I using them efficiently?

Luan Wise 3:40 I think the thing is, it's not always planned, you know, I wouldn't stop them going, Oh, I must keep in touch with everyone. Because one day there'll be, you know, valuable to me, I think it's just something that comes naturally from keeping in touch with people. And even even now, you know, even getting work. Now, I would say most of my work as a freelancer is through some kind of referral, or, or networking. And it's, yeah, it feels quite natural, not kind of, you know, I'm only going to connect with people that I think will buy my services one day, it is almost the buying you and the relationship and, and the way you work, as well as the services. So I would say, you know, yeah, I get, I get calls from Oh, you know, you worked with us, or you worked with someone nine years ago, and you're kind of like, okay, you know, and I guess, you know, to the topic of this, this talk is actually, I think it's the social media activity in between that keeps you visible with your network, even if you're not actually having cups of coffee and meetings and conversations

Orla 4:40 Yeah, and I think that's actually a really nice thing to remember as well. Thinking about, you know, how valuable it is when you have a business connection, but you actually end up being really good friends as well. It's super fulfilling and, yeah, I love that.

Luan Wise 4:53 Yeah, it makes it makes work more fun.

Orla 4:55 Yeah, definitely. Moving on to social media that you lightly touched on. I was just wondering, you know, sometimes it can be quite difficult as a newcomer, if you're starting up a new business that sells you know, a product or a service, and you want to grow your business, what would you advise is, you know, the best way to get started on social media? And what do you think, you know, the ways are that you can make it work for you as a newbie?

Luan Wise 5:23 Big questions. And so I guess I should say, you know, I'm a freelance marketer and my specialism is, is social media. That's the world I'm in. And do you know what I've been doing this for eleven years, and, and it felt that, you know, it's a long time, I had that nice transition into it. But a newbie today, I think, is really tough and I admire anyone that is kind of setting themselves up today. Whether they're doing it straight from university, or whether they've had a longer career and setting up is a really big, bold move. And I would certainly say anyone that thinks that freelancing is a stopgap between jobs, or an easy thing to do, it isn't. So you know, it's kind of frustrating when you do hear those comments. But I think as a newbie, you know, setting up on social media, that there's this shift sometimes isn't there, because the use of social media often starts with how you use it personally. And socially, whether you're slightly older, perhaps in the US to Facebook, or whether you're, you know, now in a younger Gen, Z, you know, groups and using Tik Tok for entertainment, and things like that, there's, there's got to be this switch between how you use social media, socially, and for entertainment, and you know, everything else you do, versus I'm now a business owner, as a freelancer or contractor and I need to use this to support my business and what I'm doing. I'm very much a planner. So I would always say, don't just don't dive in, let's take some time. Let's think about this. And there's a few things to think about there is, you know, which platforms are you going to use? There is more and more every day and even if you do social media as part of your role, like I do, you can't do all of them, you know, you cannot possibly do all of them and be everywhere, all the time. So I would say decide on your platforms, and ideally focus on where you're most likely to find your customers, you know, that's where you're going to get the biggest wins overall. The biggest tip I would give anyone in the world of social media new or not, is to think about your time and your resources, you know, are being realistic around it, how much time can you spend on this? This is effectively your marketing activity for your business or your business development? How much time have you got out of your available hours to spend on that, versus your admin, your accountancy and, you know, prepping and saleable hours, I would start with thinking how much time have I got, and then focus on what you can get done within that time. Because we all know that you can log on to Tik Tok, or, or Facebook or Instagram and you know, three hours later, you're still scrolling and you've not done anything productive. If you've got that I'm using social media for my business hat on you got to take control of your time.

Orla 8:07 Yeah, no, definitely and with that in mind, you know, the fact that starting out in this day and age, you know, you have to balance so many different aspects. Do you think there are any benefits to you know, outsourcing, does outsourcing have any role in you know, starting out?

Luan Wise 8:23 This is also a challenge and I would say as a, as a freelancer, new business or maybe more established, but still, you know, small business freelancer, it is about your resources, it is about thinking what your strengths are, you know, and you read lots of stuff around, you know, focus on your strengths and outsource those that you're not so good at, there's obviously budget involved in that you would need to pay if you outsourced, going back to my points about kind of referrals and people buying people in your network. Think about how easy it is to perhaps outsource yourself and your personality and, you know, personal branding, if you will, I think that's really tough. I think even if any business of any size outsources, they still need to own the plan, they still need to define the goals and set the objectives those kind of things. Depending on your you know, I know that within the IPSE membership, there's a huge range from from it to design to you know, all sorts of skill sets. If you need photography, support or videography, support or writing support. Absolutely. You can outsource in many different ways and get support for your activity. But I wouldn't say it's something that you can buy from a box that on a shelf and and it's done and you don't need to think about it. You do need to stay heavily involved. And even when I've supported people who are are outsourcing as an individual, you still need to do the engagement. You still need to do the likes and the thank yous and the comments and the connecting, it'd be - it would be inauthentic if you didn't do that for yourself.

Ben 9:58 Is it quite hard for people to understand what their brand is online? Because if I became a freelancer tomorrow, I, I don't know where I would start, like, how do you like find out what your USP is what makes you different on like, let's say LinkedIn or other social media channels?

Luan Wise 10:13 Try not to overthink it too much is probably the big thing. You know, you'll read all this stuff about having a niche and doing this and appealing to your target audience and, you know, addressing their pain points. And that's all true. No, that's marketing fundamentals and I guess maybe, because I've been doing this for 20 plus years, it is more natural to what I'm doing. I think what needs to be the focus is letting people know what you do, and letting people know how you can help them and everything that you're doing being focused on those people that you're going to help. So for example, you know, there'll be certain business types that don't appeal to me or my interests and so I don't think I'm a good fit for them. So I would imagine that if you looked at my content, you would go, well, Luan's not writing for me, because that doesn't have a fit. But if you were saying, it was sectors that I do work in, I will be writing content or posts that were relevant to them that was about what they're doing. And there's a match. So I think you do need to decide, you know, kind of where you're going and what you're offering. But if you'd have asked me, Did I do that 11 years ago? Do I do it now? No, I think it's kind of not overthinking it. And just more storytelling, what you're doing on a daily basis, not even daily, it doesn't need to be be that frequent. But you'll look at my social media content and my profiles, and they will hopefully, tell you who I work with what I do, what kind of things I get up to where I'm speaking, who I support, organisations. And so it's a bit more storytelling rather than, you know, there is no 'buy button' on social media, you can't hit that buy button. So it's, it's much more about the kind of relationship networking,

Ben 11:51 I guess, it's like leaning into the whole point of self employment and freelancing, like, you know, you can work for who you want to, you know, all that flexibility. So you might as well brand yourself with the things you actually want to. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. But coming back to like actually getting reach on social media platforms. Do you think it's more organic, that gets more results? Or do you think freelance should also put paid ads on on sites also get reach and get potential clients?

Luan Wise 12:22 Reach is, you know, is the goal is the desire, the more people that see your stuff, you know, the more people that know about you could decide they want to work with you could refer you could recommend, just generally aware of you. So you know, reach is a huge goal and, you know, you'll, you'll read from other people that, you know, that is the way that social media is going. For social media, I think, particularly for freelancers and small businesses is tough. I wouldn't start paying until things are working well, organically, and you kind of go well, this works really well, organically, maybe if I put some money behind it, it would do even better. It's also you know, it depends again, on your always depends on your size of business, do you need loads of clients, you don't need to do kind of mass advertising? And I think social media isn't a marketing communications channel, we wouldn't you probably wouldn't ask me that question about should a freelance have a 48? Sheet poster outside of train station? Should appropriate sheet? Should? We wouldn't have that, you know, should I run radio ads when everyone's on their commute in the morning, you will probably never ever asked me that. But with social media, it's kind of like, you know, shall I put 10 pound behind this? And I would say, you know, that's what makes social media different. And people see it as a quicker win and a silver bullet. But it is just another marketing comms channel. So if you applied that thinking of 48, sheet posters, and radio and TV and everything else, you probably wouldn't do it you might do again, it depends. But you might use paid ads, if you have something specific. So if you had a download that you wanted lots of people to receive, if you were running an event, and you want people to come along to it, and you want more people to know about it, if you are launching a book, and he wants people to do it. I think it's more about what is the message and what do you want people to do, rather than I need to do something paid? What should I do? Kind of think about the what before the tactic part of it.

Ben 14:18 I love that though. Imagine, imagine a poster for a very niche freelance job.

Orla 14:25 Yeah, that's a great way to think about it really great analogy, yeah. Do you think that there are any social media apps that are underdogs that are worth looking into? If you're a freelancer, and you want to promote your business, I keep hearing a lot of stuff about how Pinterest is really good for growing your audience but isn't used as much in the UK as it is in the US. And there's also another app called Veero as well that's like an alternative to Instagram. But yeah, it'd be great to hear more about what you think?

Luan Wise 14:54 There is niche channels out there and it comes back to the you know, which platform should you be using the ones where your audience are, and hanging out. So you know, if you think your audience are on Reddit or Quora or something, then absolutely go there. there first. And, you know, I do spend as much time talking with clients about closing social media accounts down, as I do about opening them, probably more so particularly on Twitter, where they may have lots of accounts and you know, ones that are dormant or they're just not running. So don't think that you have to be on everything, just, you know, to keep it there. What can be useful way to think about this is there's going to be a couple of social media platforms where I'm going to be active, where I'm going to use it for networking and connecting and posting content. And that may be LinkedIn, I would suggest that everyone should have a presence on LinkedIn, I think it'd be a bit questionable if someone couldn't be found on LinkedIn now. But whether Facebook Instagram, Tik Tok, you know, Twitter, BeReal, Veero All the others are right for you, is for you to decide. But you could consider some of these other platforms that actually useful for you to be in to gather information and insights, but you're not actually posting on there. So I do use other social media platforms, but I'm not necessarily active there. But I will use it to find out, you know, what people are saying about something or what latest trends are, and this isn't relevant to freelancers. But this is my best example from hearing someone from Pinterest talk in that several years ago, Tiffany's decided which engagement rings they were going to use in their Valentine's Day campaigns, based on what people were pinning on Pinterest in their, you know, wannabe bride categories. And they were able to identify that there was a certain style of ring that all the you know, the wannabe brides were pinning to their boards. And so Tiffany's were able to take that insight and go, if this is what's on trend, and people really want, that's what we're going to use in our campaigns. So use some platforms for insights and news and information because that's what social media is great at, it's real time, it's what people are thinking. But you don't necessarily have to be active there, you can take that insight and use it in blogs, on your website, in talks and the platforms that you are using,

Ben 17:14 Have there been any sort of horror stories of you going to a client going, you should take down this one, because it maybe it's like a freelance account and doing a Tik Tok dance, you know, maybe not as outlandish as that. But has there ever been like a case where like, this is really not like, doesn't work with your brand and what you're offering,

Luan Wise 17:33 I think, if people are open enough to have someone like me interrogate what they're doing, then they're open to the feedback. There's an audit to start with. The way that I would present it would be to back it up with data, and to talk about their resources and almost say, you know, show some data tools and say, Look, your audience just aren't playing on this platform. They're not engaging, they're not sharing compared to this one and use real data to kind of back up my argument. And then it's not just about kind of saying, shut it down. It's saying why and what you should do instead, you know, your resources will be better off used if you did this, or your resource will be better if we just had one core account, and we managed it in this way. And this is the way to do it. Or, actually, you have two choices. But if all of your teams aren't going to be active on Twitter, you can't just have one team that is and the others aren't. So your choice is either everyone plays or they don't play. So it's kind of coming up with the options, but not just saying, don't just say no, it's more the data says, and these are your alternatives. People do have ideas. You know, the thing about marketing is that there is always everyone that has an idea about it thing with social media is everyone will kind of say, you know, this is what's trending? Should we do it? My answer to that? And actually, I've worked on this quite closely on one client, because, you know, do you get involved in trending content? Or do you not? And there's often a balance between what we may find amusing and funny as individuals versus should the brand, get involved with this. And actually, we decided that our best approach is to have a group of people that are diverse, you know, across gender, ethnicity, age groups, and actually, we have a conversation about it, because what might appeal to me in my 40s is very different to what might appeal to someone in their 20s and genders as well. So actually, when it comes to the trending topics, and that kind of content and the platform's and getting involved, it has to, you know, kind of have a mix of people and inputs into that.

Orla 19:37 Yeah, I think that's definitely a healthy approach to it. Because, you know, diversity is really essential. So, I mean, the idea of, you know, white men in a boarding room, it's just not, it's just not the one.

Luan Wise 19:50 No, you've got you've got to consider it and you know, there is unconscious bias and as much effort as everyone can take, you do miss things and you do, hit the mark and we're all in our you know, however much we like to think that we're not, we are all in certain certain bubbles. So it's just about making sure that the shared opinions and approaches to do it. And things change all the time, as well, what we may decide today may be completely out of context or irrelevant in three months time. So you've kind of got to keep talking about it.

Ben 20:21 Yeah, exactly. Do you have any thoughts on sustainable marketing at all? Because I think that's something which I see on social media and everywhere else now. And do you think it's important in like business strategy now, as a freelancer?

Luan Wise 20:33 It is hugely important and there is a wonderful book out on sustainable marketing by Gemma Butler and Michelle Carville, and I think it's Garin Evans, they have a podcast about it, they they talk about it, it's a brilliant actionable book. The importance is that it's not just a trend, not greenwashing, piggybacking on something, you've got to kind of prove that you walk the walk, as well as talk the talk, and it can't just be a one off thing on World Earth Day or, or something like that. And that's the same as you know, the gender diversity, you know, topics as well, you can't talk about these things if you're not actually living and breathing them, as well. But we do know, green issue sustainability are high on agendas snd I think it needs to be one of those kind of core content pillars that you talk about. Ongoing, not just as a one off hit. But yeah, that book, highly recommend it.

Orla 21:27 Great. It sounds fab we'll pop it in the notes below, so everyone can have a look. Do you have any tips for you know, maintaining a healthy balance as a freelancer when you know, you're using social media so much, and you've also got your own personal life and work? How do you, you know, balance all of that?

Luan Wise 21:45 After 11 years, I still don't think I've got it right. I think that probably, you know, supports my comment about you know, if people think that freelancing is easy, or a quick win, versus, you know, a proper job or, or employment, I think that is the biggest challenge. You are running your own business, you're a business owner, there is little consistency, you know, we talk about feast and famine, and you know, it is like that, you know, it's not the same, you've got to manage your time and resources, setting boundaries. I think if you work in social media, it's even harder, because it is your job, you know, if I could take the apps off my phone for a week, I will probably relish that opportunity. But I can't that's that's my role. You know, so I think it is becoming more and more important to, you know, for mental health and well being and being able to, you know, be consistently available and good at what you're doing and providing a service, you know, you only ever as good as your last campaign or your last project is to try and set your boundaries. But I think possibly that comes back to the kind of clients that you work with, as well and the relationships that you had you said, Orla, you know, isn't it great if you can work with your friends? And I think if you have strong relationships, then the boundaries are easier to set or understand and to work with people as well.

Yeah, that's fab. Yeah, that's a great thing to bear in mind. That's a really good piece of advice.

Ben 23:13 Yeah, I feel like sometimes a lot of people wish they could just delete Twitter or maybe their emails. I think someone I met once said, life is a series of emails, if you're on social media, I guess life is a series of posts as well.

Luan Wise 23:26 Well, you know, kind of, you know, I do a lot of training work, as well as consultancy. And there's always part of me, that is in huge admiration for people that have never set up a social media account, you know, I think I would have a bit of FOMO around, you know, what's this latest thing? I haven't used it, I haven't tried it. But you know, if you've got to the stage, you know, LinkedIn has been around since 2003. And you haven't got a profile and you haven't played with it, I've almost got a certain level of admiration for, you know, for people not not getting into it. And yeah, we've seen the other side now that actually, you know, Gen Z, and teenagers are digital natives, but they're not as interested in social media and they're quite happy not to be on there and they don't want to be on there. Whereas for those of us that are on there, it's perhaps a bit harder to to move away from it. So think it has to be conscious decisions.

Orla 24:16 Yeah, I think that's really interesting, because I actually recently met quite a well known designer, and they just don't have LinkedIn at all and I've met quite a few different creatives actually, that don't have LinkedIn. I feel like maybe you'd be more on The Dots, though, as well, if you're like a designer or something like that.

Luan Wise 24:33 Yeah. But that could be that they're engaging more peer to peer rather than with potentially where their target customers and the people they're going to buy from but it has to come back to that all the way at the beginning, you know, which platforms and your time and resources and all those other factors in between. So yeah, I do admire people that can switch off.

Ben 24:54 What do you think the future of social media marketing looks like? Do you think do you think people are these young people are gonna and sort of leave and go into, like, actually meet people outside networking events and avoid all these apps? Do you think there's gonna be a new app? What do you think?

Luan Wise 25:10 That's such a big question, and it could change between today and what, you know, when this podcast goes out as to what happens in the world! The rise of Tik Tok is huge, you know, we know that it's growing, that people are on there. But it's always different. When a brand brands start getting involved and brands start playing and businesses start advertising, it changes the nature of the platform from what its original users wanted, which was about entertainment with their friends. So platforms change all the time, there will always be new things come, some will stick, some won't, some will get bought by the bigger players, some of the features will get copied by the bigger players, you know, BeReal, which was supposed to be the next Gen Z one, you know, a couple of minutes a day, we're now seeing Instagram talking about taking on those features. So I don't think we're going to see any of the big big players disappear. But I think they are going to evolve. But I do think the users are having more of a say now in a stroke more strongly opinionated about what they want from the platforms or what they want to do on the platforms than ever before. So perhaps more user generated driven, features, benefits, changes, rather than necessarily the platform's doing what they think we want them to do.

Orla 26:31 That kinda leads me to think more about Web3, if that really ties in and the kind of potential of Web3 and what does that mean for social media? I guess we'll have to find out!

Luan Wise 26:42 It is one to watch. And that the challenge of working in marketing and social media is almost like you've got to always have one foot in the future and seeing what's happening and what's coming next. But then I go back to the, you know, we just talked about, some people don't have LinkedIn profiles yet and it's been around for 2003. So how far can you go in the in the future and be ready for the future? When will your audience be there to potentially catch up with you and be there too? And I think the challenge that we've got now is that actually, we're adding platforms on we're not replacing, so anyone that's using Tik Tok now hasn't stopped necessarily using Instagram. So we're kind of making the the work load resources wider and broader. And the skill sets wider and broader as well, you know, as marketers 20 years ago, we didn't really need to know that much about data apart from how to do a report, whereas now we need to be graphic designers, video creators, idea generators, voiceovers, and so much more. So, you know, how big can our role get? How much is driven by marketing? Or, you know, Web3? I think we need to be thinking about it, and understanding it. But again, it's one of those all shiny new things, should we dive straight in? Or should we actually kind of watch and plan and, and take a more considered approach,

Ben 28:01 I guess, it's also more things that freelancers can charge for, they can go, oh, I can charge for this, I can charge for that. I can also do this and I can also do that.

Luan Wise 28:09 And we like that! You know, we like new opportunities and that's also the thing about forward thinking and being ready for the next opportunity. You know, I don't know whether, you know, social media didn't exist when I was at university and studying. So is it still going to exist in another 10 years? Or do do we need to shift and the thing about being a freelancer is that you do constantly evolve, you're constantly learning, you're update, making sure that your skills are up to date, because that's what people are buying. So yeah, we need to be thinking about it.

Orla 28:39 If you could give one key piece of advice to somebody who wanted to market themselves on social media, what would it be and why?

Luan Wise 28:47 Yeah, marketing yourself. I will say even as a marketer, it's not easy, this marketing yourself, it feels icky, it feels uncomfortable. Sometimes, my biggest tip would be to be visible, and to stay visible. You know, you have to show people that you're there that you're open to work and receiving work and wanting to work with people. So you've got to be visible. And that includes the presence on social media, whichever platforms you choose, and when you are visible, and you know, you're all set up and looking great, and your profiles are all written, it's about showing up. And in terms of staying visible, my tip for that would be consistency, whether that's every day, whether it's once a week, or once a fortnight, it's about being consistent. And the danger that freelancers have in particular is they get really busy with projects and they disappear and they forget about their stuff and then a project comes to the end or you know something happens and you've got time in your diary and say oh, I need to do some marketing again. And you know, a bit of a yo yo effect, there is the feast or famine but I think if you can just show up consistently worry about whether you've got capacity or not when the opportunities come in, be visible and just keeps showing up with your storytelling and what you're doing what you're working on and how you help.

Orla 30:05 I think it's so easy to feel overwhelmed and you know, sometimes as a freelancer, you do have high aims and goals, you maybe give yourself too many things to do. So I think it's healthy to kind of have a consistency mentality, rather than setting yourself really high goals that sometimes not so attainable, and then you end up feeling not so great about that.

Luan Wise 30:24 Yeah, you got to find a way to take the pressure off yourself.

Orla 30:27 And last but not least, if you had to pick three things that you found useful or inspiring for your own freelancing career, what would they be and why?

Luan Wise 30:37 For me, I am a lifelong learner, I constantly learn I'm constantly reading, understanding what other businesses are doing case stories, you know, I've just read the Airbnb story I've just finished, you know, the Netflix story is just constantly learning and seeing what I can apply. So I guess I'm inspired by by learning and keep learning and reading and staying up to date. I think I'm also inspired by the people around me, that I talk to, I think you have to have your own network, whether that's peer to peer, but also, I'm, I hugely love the training work that I do, you know, and when I'm training and teaching, I learn as much in those sessions, as I think but I teach and information I share because I see them more as a kind of facilitative approach, understand what people's challenges are, and how we can respond to them. So I think you've got to kind of be inspired by the people around you, as well. And then I think, I guess maybe just a resources about, you know, support information. It is having that support network. So I would say it's about the professional bodies. So I am a member of the Chartered Institute of marketing I have supported other organisations in the past. I'm an ambassador for IPSE have been for about five years now. So it's about, it's about the support and the networks and the learning around you.

Orla 31:57 Thank you so much Luan it's been really great chatting to you.

Luan Wise 32:00 Thank you.

Ben 32:01 Really good to have you on the show.

That's it for this week's episode. Be able to find information on freelancing in the show notes below. And on the freelance corner website.

Orla 32:13 Do you have a question about freelancing that you want us to put to an expert? Drop us an email at content@freelancecorner.co.uk. We'd love to hear your queries.

Ben 32:24 If you enjoyed the show, make sure you follow us so you don't miss out on our next episode. You can find us on all major platforms and just let us know what we should quiz an expert on next time.