Andrew Alridge: This podcast is brought to you by deepish
capital LLP. DBS is authorised and regulated by the Financial
Conduct Authority. Please note that investments discussed are
both illiquid and high risk and won't be suitable for all
investors and should be considered as part of a
diversified portfolio. The content of this podcast should
not be construed as financial or taxation advice. We recommend
investors seek appropriate professional financial advice,
any views expressed may no longer be current, or may have
already been acted upon. Welcome to this latest deep discovery
podcast. My name is Andrew Aldridge. The purpose of this
podcast is bring to life the people and the companies behind
the bridge in what we do. So this week, I'm delighted to be
joined by Olivia Drinan, whose strategic partnership manager
here at deep edge, we're gonna be talking about series of
events that we recently held about educating advisors around
tax efficient investments. So live great to have you. Thank
you. Let's start with tell us a bit about yourself and your role
at deepish.
Unknown: Yes, so I am strategic partnerships manager here at
Deep bridge. And my role is to basically be incredibly
passionate, and to about tax efficient products or
investments, and to educate advisors and through our
strategic partnership network or even with our kind of
competitors of the other fund managers in the in the market.
But
Andrew Alridge: you definitely bring the passion to it. And
yeah, I think your role also shows a lot of miles, a lot of
traveling around the country, I think, yeah, there's a bit of
that involves an IFA in the UK that hasn't seen you present yet
that I'd be
Unknown: amazed. I'm gonna hunt them down,
Andrew Alridge: I think. So recently, deep, rich lead by
yourself and a number of our peers in the market, run a
series of advisor kitbag events at sports stadiums around the
country. Can you just tell us a bit about the purpose of the
events and what we're looking to get out of it?
Unknown: Yeah, of course. So the, I suppose the kind of bare
bones, the original idea was to provide the advisor community an
opportunity to learn about tax efficient products in a time
where tax has never been so high. And we wanted to
deliberately make it really different. I think it was kind
of our idea to really inject the deep the deep bridge
personality, that passion, you mentioned, passion. Yeah. So we
chose to do it at a really iconic stadiums across the UK,
hence all the traveling. Thanks, Andrew. And we had loads of fun
in it. And we created we had very short pitches, 20 minute
pitches from each fund managers 5000 Total pitches, but
educational pieces. Yeah, pitches is definitely not the
right word. Actually, I'm glad you've corrected me that. It was
very contextual information based on you know, what is the
UK today? Why, why is it important to recommend these
products, but also focusing around that that kind of myth
busting? concept, because there are lots of preconceptions about
tax efficient investments in the industry. So and then we did
panel sessions as well. So we did a structured panel section
session with them questions that we had collated together as kind
of a team of five providers, questions that we know, advisors
ask a lot. Yep. And then we opened up to the audience, which
was definitely my favorite bet. And it really felt very
collaborative. It was, you know, an opportunity to have five
providers in one room and challenges. And I think that's
what, from the feedback anyway, a lot of advisors came away and
said that it was just a unique opportunity, and really
interesting to hear also what their peers were asking. Yeah,
Andrew Alridge: yeah, to understand themselves as well.
Yeah. And also, I guess, it's kind of my understanding is it
was very, for informal events, very conversation or trying to
make sure people felt included, and it didn't seem like some
kind of preachy kind of session, which, which is always
Unknown: exactly, you know, my style. It's not formal. So I
couldn't have done that if I tried. But actually, yeah, you
hit the nail on the head, though, became even though at
some points we had 100 over 100 people in the room, up to 130
people in a room, it still felt like we were in a big meeting
room together. And we had a lot of laughs giggles a lot of talk
about IHT on EastEnders, things like that. So yeah, it was
really good fun.
Andrew Alridge: So who were the who were the other peers that
we're working with? Who are our competitors?
Unknown: Yes, our competitors. So yeah, I mean, we it's funny
because people say I can't believe how much you work with
your competitors and you're in the industry. But actually, it's
something that I really pride ourselves at ditch the bridge
for we have incredibly strong relationships with the other
fund managers or our competitors in the market. And why wouldn't
we you know, We're all we're all kind of searching for that same
outcome, which is good outcomes for clients, strong
relationships with advisors, you know, and we're all, you know,
trying to get everyone on board with tax efficient investments,
which actually is a no go on to later a lot, a lot less of a
challenge than it was when I started out in this. And it's
still
Andrew Alridge: it's still a niche products, I guess, in the
market? I totally agree. No, but I think I think that's how it's
perceived, I think, no, I think that's how it's perceived, I
think, yeah, the more that we can work with, to encourage
people to be looking at this sector to look at what they
should be doing. Yeah, then it's going to be good for all of us,
I guess, which is why it's good for us to work together.
Unknown: Exactly. Yeah, we've all fallen into the trap of
saying, you know, this is niche, but it really isn't anymore. And
that just makes it easier. And I think that's a product of the
fact that we have worked so well with our competitors. But to
answer your original question, sorry. The other fund managers
were foresight to triple point, pew, Matt, and time investments
nearly forgot one. Tell me, they'll be on
Andrew Alridge: the phone. And, yeah, what were the key themes
and messages that you picked up across the events not necessary
that you wanted to get across? But what did you pick up from
it?
Unknown: Yeah, it's a really nice question. I think there
were definite themes. I think the most kind of interesting
ones for me. And this is really echoed, if you speak to our
investment managers, is that venture capital actually
performs really well in times of crisis, which we're obviously
going through at the moment with all the instability in the
market. And I just think it's an incredible opportunity to get
involved in early stage businesses that are that are
essentially a diversify against those other investments in your
in your portfolio. If you look at Apple, if you if I always say
to people think about these big companies like Apple, for
example, they're like cruise ships. When you go through times
of turbulence, they find it difficult to be agile and react
to the turn to the tide. So the waves were and that's why they
would acquire the smaller businesses with that level of
agility with the reaction and allow them to explore different
avenues, different marketplaces. The second point we're talking
about unquoted, business lit relief, like the deep rich
estate planning service, we're obviously talking about high
risk products deemed by the SBA liquid and quoted. But actually,
these investments are typically asset backed, they invest in
renewable energy, like the deep rich proposition, which is, you
know, predicted to have good steady returns in the future.
They've obviously got access to government subsidies. And also
they target that kind of steady, Eddy, I always say steady ID
approach and a three to 5% return. So then you think, well,
a lot of advisors in the room are saying, Well, I think of
business relief as whatever I invest in my clients money, I'm
gonna get 40% inheritance tax on that amount, should I hold it
for two years and at the point of death, so ultimately, that
the value of that investment would have to drop below 40%,
for my clients to be impacted? If you bring all of that
together, actually, although it is a high risk product, it can
be suitable, and it is recommended today to clients in
the lower risk profiles. Should they need inheritance tax relief
needed on a shorter basis, the to two years and the big one
need to retain access to the capital?
Andrew Alridge: And I think you you've done presentations
alongside and for large compliance service providers,
networks, etc. And I think the general feedback we get from
them is is very similar to that in the sense that, if
appropriate for the client, and it's trying to achieve the right
outcome for the client, exactly, then, you know, nothing's off
the table, if you like,
Unknown: yeah, yeah, exactly. And I think in with consumer
duty rules coming into place, advisors, especially if you're a
hole of market advisor, you can't really discount these
products anymore, just because they're high risk, if they are
going to be the best outcome for your client. You you need to, to
offer that as a as an option. And and you're also running the
risk of clients going elsewhere, if you if you don't know about
these products as well, which can be in a risk to their own
business. And
Andrew Alridge: and that kind of point was that coming back from
advisors as well as from from Yeah, the
Unknown: exit? Yeah, it came directly. There's a here's a
great example of it actually, in the recorded webinar that we're
going to host soon to be to be announced the day of that, where
advisor was saying, Actually, I find it really difficult to
write reports on this as high risk and was asking us about
that. And then this was kind of the outcome of the conversation.
So very interesting.
Andrew Alridge: So what kind of questions were advisors
specifically asking? Other than that,
Unknown: loads, loads of great questions and I think the ones
that may be a jot down a few that were the most common
questions interestingly, a lots we've talked about in this kind
of session a lot about inheritance tax or Business
relief. But actually, the questions were definitely more
focused on EIS and VCT enterprise investment scheme and
venture capital trusts. And I think that's because they are
exciting, right? As a secondary investor. Yeah, for sure. Yeah.
So the big question is, what is the difference between EIS and
VCT? Which is a great question. And I like to use the analogy, I
like to talk about the structural differences, because
I think that's really important when you're getting your head
around the differences. You might have said in the past,
well, EAS is maybe earliest age and VCT, later stage, but me and
you both know that that's just not the
Andrew Alridge: case anymore, hunting in the same same pools
Exactly.
Unknown: And I think that that has a lot to say that BCT
providers, we do obviously offer VCT at deep edge, but I do think
they've seen the benefit of getting involved in early stage
businesses, and being there for the journey to the point of the
exit. So that is why they want to get involved. And that kind
of shows you really, you know, the positivity around early
stage investing. But I like to talk about it, as I said in it
on a structural level. So I like to say in any is if we, if I
invested 100k. Today, that would go into a certain amount,
they'll be around 10, let's say 10k, let's say 10. In real life,
early stage companies and I would own shares in those
individual companies, right, I'm preaching to the converted here,
educating me expert, but with a VCT. Imagine we're all in a
swimming pool together, and we all invest in a VCT that money,
and everyone laughs at that point. So I think everyone
thinks sort of naked in a swimming pool. With fully
clothed,
Andrew Alridge: I was gonna say, I was gonna say it was very
informal.
Unknown: This swimming pool came after the event. So we're all
in, you know, we're all putting that money into the pool. And
then that money will be used to fund these companies at whatever
stage they are, when those companies come to accept the
money would go back into the pool, and typically used for to
fund fair the company. Yes, it might have been in the past more
commonly, that the investors that I was in the pool will get
paid out as a special dividend. Yeah. But that's really become a
thing of the past. And from speaking to the fund managers in
the market, they don't expect these kind of big special
evidence. So you're losing the exposure, I suppose.
Andrew Alridge: Suppose the upside exposure, I guess. Yep.
Unknown: Yeah. And you're also might be taking similar and it
would they are all high risk categories by the FCA. So
they're all in the same risk capital category, but you might
actually be taking higher risk categories, higher risk, because
you are getting involved in early stage businesses as well.
Andrew Alridge: Okay. Great. What are the questions? And I
know you had a myriad of questions. Yes.
Unknown: Yeah, I liked the one it really common one that maybe
we'd like to delve into further at future events, especially, is
well, what types of companies do you actually invest in? And why?
And I thought, Ben,
Andrew Alridge: that's great that people are wanting to get
to that level go. The events were very broad kind of
overarching view of different types of tax return investments
for people wanting to get into that level of granularity is
great.
Unknown: Yeah, yeah. Well, I think that that, from a, if you
think you're an advisor, you're essentially a salesman,
yourself. And I think when you are talking about ei s, you're
definitely gonna want to get involved in talking about this
level of detail, because it's so exciting. You always say to me
live, does it pass the golf course test? Are your clients
gonna go down to the golf course and talk about these types of
investments? And I can tell you what it is they will, because it
is kind of real life Dragon's Den. And I love those questions,
like you say, because it just allows us to go, you know, into
the real detail, Ben Carter did a great job of covering that in
his podcast. So if you haven't listened to that podcast go
back. I feel like an influencer. So I won't go into detail of
that. But then the final question was around, okay, well,
what really is the importance of deployment? Yep. And I think
that comes back to what I was just saying about advisors being
able to actually tell the story of what these companies are. If
you're a fund manager, and you cut and you don't know, when
you're going to deploy the money, they say, 12 to 18
months, which you can appreciate is quite broad, is you typically
because they don't know what they're gonna invest in. They
still need to go out find it, right. So, there's a beauty of
deep bridge and it really does. It's genuinely excites me being
able to tell to ask people okay, well, what are you interested in
what your clients interested in? What businesses do they work in?
Because we could probably find a company in our portfolio that is
in aligning in their interests or in their culture, or their
religions
Andrew Alridge: and kind of bring it to life while investing
in this portfolio? Yeah.
Unknown: Yeah, exactly. And then I think that's when you get that
next level of buy in You want to follow these companies to the
point when they exit, and you get excited about that journey
that they're on. But the obvious benefits of deployment are,
well, you need your certificate, your EIS three certificate that
you only get once that money is deployed. And just to be really
simple, because everyone goes to port, what do you mean by
deployment? Deployment is literally the money goes into
those startup. And those companies issue the shares.
That's exactly, exactly. And that certificate you get will
only happen once it's deployed. And at that point, you can claim
your tax reliefs. So it's harder, just a tricky sell to
say to people, okay, invest today, invest 100 grand today,
you're gonna get 30 grand income tax relief, but you might not do
it in this tax year, or maybe not even next year, we don't
know. Whereas deep bridge can say, well, we target monthly
deployments, we can tell you
Andrew Alridge: what, that has been quite interesting here at
these events alongside peers in the market. But it's still
having a USP to talk about kingsun.
Unknown: That's yeah, you know, yeah, and I'm not sure if
they'll thank me for saying this. But they do have a lot of
advisors that say, look, deployment time is really
important to me, and they've said quite openly to both of us.
And in that case, I recommend deep bridge. But it's good. And
it's happened already we've seen so in the stadium events,
because we're in that time of the tax year now, where people
are thinking, Well, what if I haven't paid 30 grand in taxes
last year, but I want to invest 100 grand, then I need to carry
part of that back into the previous tax year using the
carry back facility. So Damn, I've actually really got to
hurry up and get this invested time, David, you're gonna be the
only one on the level that we are at, as a top five provider
to facilitate that. Something you can tell them proud about,
or you can order us
Andrew Alridge: Asian today. Good. So, you know, in terms of
the interaction from advisors, was the kind of any pushback
from you there? Was anybody there? Who was kind of still
kind of nervous about tax evasion, investments? or
uncertain or was it? Or was it kind of? Was it kind of a
rallying call to a lot of advisors?
Unknown: Yeah, I think you're always gonna get that mixed bag.
It's funny, how quickly you forget the questions that are
asked. Or the events, but I really like it when advisors
challenges, because that's what we were there for. Yep. That's
why we did these events. And it's likely that if one advisors
sat in them in the audience thinking, I'm not sure about
that. I'm not comfortable about that, you know, what's the
process was a big one. What actually happens when these
Company X, these companies exit? How, you know, how are you going
to help me store these certificates? What if I lose
them? Those kinds of questions? A great questions, because it's
likely that other advisors are thinking the same thing. And we
want to be able to explain these things. We're there to help you
to support and educator,
Andrew Alridge: I think it's important to say as well, that
you know, the the format of the day was that you had five
presenters presenting on different product types. So you
had, quote, unquote, a br You had a NBR, you had corporate bi
and VCTs. And the idea is, it wasn't that we're all pitching
and fighting over kind of the same themes or same topics. We
were very much trying to be collaborative about how we
talked about these products.
Unknown: Yeah, exactly. And I think that worked really well.
The contextual issues that we're all talking about relate to all
of the, their products as well. So you can just sort of refer
back and collaborate in that way. reaffirm.
Andrew Alridge: So going live for me some stats, so how many
people how many advisors registered, attend these events?
Unknown: Yeah, so I think we had over 750 advisors across 11
events, it was in total. Yeah, I live in different cities. And we
had nearly 500 people, attendees that advisors actually attend,
which is incredible conversion rate. And we actually did a
survey and worked out net promoter scores
Andrew Alridge: worldwide kind of metric for working out, you
know, how well an event or a product or services is regarded
and how did we do?
Unknown: Yeah, I think it's important to not only judge
ourselves within our industry as well, but globally and against
all events. So I they said that anything above 53 was clusters,
a world class event globally, and we got 55 sort of thing that
we're really chuffed that 96% of attendees rated the events seven
out of 10 or above.
Andrew Alridge: Awesome. That's been the feedback has been
fantastic. And you know, the question I keep getting for
people is, are we going to do similar events again? I mean,
can you can you shed any light on that? Is that still to be
decided to kill
Unknown: me? there for sure. Of course, I want to do it again.
Yeah. And I'm just thinking now is what we're going to do
differently. I want to keep their level of excitement and
kind of inform informality, but also, I want to do a really cool
venue with something like the stadium tours that we did. So
now's our time to go back to the drawing board. And yeah,
Andrew Alridge: I think I think there was some parties and kind
of people who didn't want to attend Kuba in their eyes the
wrong stadium. So yeah, that's
Unknown: I won't make that mistake again card. Well, you
haven't made the key error of going to Manchester but not
Liverpool.
Andrew Alridge: That's different cities as a whole different
nevermind in the city fans by going to Old Trafford, you also
didn't go to Liverpool? I'm just glad we went to Hampton Park in
Glasgow and not not Rangers or Celtic. Yes, yeah. So this is
what it's all been about education for advisors around
yet sufficient investments, what are the education is out there
for advisors that are wanting to learn more, what other resources
are out there for advisors?
Unknown: Yeah, so so much. And we appreciate that some advisors
may never have considered this kind of investment before. And
that's kind of our opportunity to step in and help and really
shine. Any of the fund managers there will be able to support
and all provide different levels of literature. But I'm obviously
going to fill out my online series that I do, which I do II
is the basics EIC advance and a business relief, the basics as
well. And we do this every Friday kind of on rotation, I
think for the entire year, this year. At the moment, we're doing
the Advanced Series, half an hour, every Friday, CPD as well
just as an extra touch. And a few I think I'm quite confident
confidently say that if you completed both the basics and
Advanced Series, you'd be in a much more comfortable decision
to make a position sorry to make to make decisions with your
clients. And then we're looking to expand that into an deepish
Academy. I really want to be able to provide advisors with
literally everything they would need to onboard this kind of
product, which we hope to release next year.
Andrew Alridge: That's the plan. Yeah, that'd be exciting, trying
to bring all educational pieces together into one place. So that
whether it be webinars, whether it be events, whether it be
guides, whether it be literature, whatever it might be
that they need to to support the math, that's very exciting. And
hopefully, our our advisors will, will appreciate that and
enjoy the content as well. Yeah. So what are your top tips for
advisors, then?
Unknown: Yeah, so I think ultimately get to know your fund
manager asked to meet the investment managers, those are
the people who are actually investing your clients money.
And that's what I would do if if it was me,
Andrew Alridge: understanding how they tick and as well as
kind of the form process, but also they're kind of the level
headed guys. So they sense that kind of thing,
Unknown: exactly how much experience they have, what kind
of things do they look for going back to that earlier? Question.
It's all really important. And I think, ask us well, what kind of
questions would we ask as a fund managers as the bridge when when
you're considering that particular product, and ask our
competitors about what they would ask about us as well, I
think that that can be really illuminating. But the other top
tip would be you know, don't simply discount this product as
a kind of high risk. As I've mentioned, if it is in the best
interest of the client, you would run the potential risk of
losing that client as because other advisors obviously do
offer these products we know they do because they come to us
so and then the final point would just be going back to the
events challenges, you know, get us these events as an
opportunity to challenge the experts five on the panels
unique and yeah, come to us.
Andrew Alridge: Yeah, brilliant. So obviously you've been mad
busy. You've been all around the country up and down the
motorways but really some really sad spending most of your time
working I know that but you know part of this podcast is to bring
to life the people behind the bridge so kind of what you're
interested away from work when you do find some time or
interest.
Unknown: Yeah, I do work obscene amount.
Andrew Alridge: But you'll love
Unknown: it. Yeah, I do love it. I genuinely do love it. But
yeah, I was just about to say I love going on dog walks But Asha
knows that I always call him when I'm on a walk about work.
Yeah, skiing. I'm going skiing on Iron a few weeks he knows
because I've been showing him my ski goggles and they keep next
to my office. I love skiing. I look forward to all year round.
I just wish I had a bit more time to go just it's a curse
that end of tax year follows after the best season, winter
season. But it wouldn't be I wouldn't be working with deep
rich if I didn't enjoy a couple of glasses of wine. After a
lager just to cough up good.
Andrew Alridge: And then the question we asked everyone on
the Discovery podcast about the deal with dinner party. Yeah. So
you can invite three guests dead or alive no friends or family
who don't want to annoy anybody that don't invite. So who would
you be inviting and why?
Unknown: I was gonna speak to you about this because it's the
the act of what I understand is that it's dead. One dead wood
alive and one fictional. That's how you do it.
Andrew Alridge: Not the deal with discovery. Okay?
Unknown: Okay, whoever you want. Okay. Can I do fictional? Only
because I want to invite Tommy Shelby.
Andrew Alridge: Jump to ask that question again.
Unknown: Okay, so I was gonna have to be Michelle Obama. You
wouldn't believe how many times her saying if they go low, you
go high. helps. I have it in the back of my mind constantly. So
it's got to be it's gotta be Michelle. Yeah. Stevie Nicks.
Okay, brilliant. Cuz she would sing to me and also, just want
to see a twirl in around the dinner table. Awesome. And then
yeah, Tommy Shelby, my fictional one.
Andrew Alridge: Nice. So what why? Stevie Nicks will be doing
the posterior entertainment as well. She
Unknown: Yeah, it was between her and Freddie Mercury. But
it's got to be Stevie.
Andrew Alridge: I have to say, disappointingly, on this
podcast, so far, we do have a huge majority of men, as I
mentioned, not women. So I think Stevie Nicks is going some way
to leveling the boxer. And Michelle and Michelle is
obviously yes, she's leveling up. But brilliant. Thanks very
much for your time. I really appreciate catching up with you.
And yeah, looking forward to future events. Everyone's gonna
keep posted ready for those. Thank you. Thank you for joining
us. If there's any topics you'd like covering in future
podcasts, please email us at Discovery at DBS capital.com.
This podcast was brought to you by DPH capital LLP, DBS is
authorised and regulated by the Financial Conduct Authority.
Please note that investments discussed are both illiquid and
high risk and won't be suitable for all investors and should be
considered as part of a diversified portfolio. The
content of this podcast should not be construed as financial or
taxation advice. We recommend investors seek appropriate
professional financial advice. Any views expressed may no
longer be current and may have already been acted upon
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