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already been acted upon. Welcome to this divas discovery podcast.
My name is Andrew Aldridge. The purpose of this podcast is bring
to life the people and the companies behind what we do here
at the bridge. In this episode, I'm delighted to be joined by
Dr. Stuart Hanna who CEO of microplate dx, a portfolio
company within deepish life sciences, seis and the is funds.
So Hi, Stuart, great to have you on the podcast. Hi, Andrew,
Unknown: good to be here. Thanks for the campaign. No, great.
Andrew Alridge: So I guess Yeah, we always kind of like to start
at the beginning with these podcasts. So I guess first and
foremost, for our audience. Can you tell us a bit about how Mike
stacks came to be and your background and a bit about the
team?
Unknown: Boris? Yeah, no, thanks. Thanks, Andrew. So yeah,
so combined, right, going right back to the beginning, I guess
we had a University of Strathclyde, yes, but no
company. So based in Glasgow, and really the project and the
microplate project to get as it was in the beginning, started
back in 2017 2018. And at that stage, it was a collaboration
between myself and a couple of University of Strathclyde
academics Professor Demian Corrigan, who's now our CTO, and
Professor Paul Hoskinson, who's our CSO, and really, kind of got
together and set out to try to really improve the diagnostic
landscape for France microbial resistance, you know, because
the current kind of standard processes take so long to return
a result, you know, namely days, huge issues with respect to TMS
prescribing of antibiotics, etc. So we were really trying to
speed up that whole process and bring crucially cost effective,
rapid diagnostics to the point of care. So patients can
actually walk away with the right antibiotic when they first
present which avoids all these huge downstream complications
and healthcare effects. We really will kick it all off, I
guess was, you know, back back in 2017. So Damien and Paul
received a prestigious Longitude Prize discovery award, okay, so
long as your prize was set up by the UK Government a number of
years ago, really looking at trying to, I guess, develop a
technology at that stage to tackle antimicrobial resistance
AMR and a number of parties put forward ideas, they got a
discovery award and that kick started the walk on on
microplate at Strathclyde. I then joined as the lead
researcher on that project back in August 2018. And essentially,
we worked as a as a team to develop this, this technology.
And again, at that stage, very academic project, you know,
bringing up perspective expertise, you know, for myself,
and in electronic and electrical engineering, Damon's point of
view and electric chemistry and bio sensor development, from
Paul's perspective, then in molecular microbiology, and
really hitting the sweet spot at that stage of trying to come up
with this microbiology base base Sensor Test. And we found after
12 to 12 months of development, actually the proof of concept
we've been doing, whereby we were looking to essentially
detect differences between the common hospital acquired
infection, Staphylococcus aureus, and major bacterial
infection. And just drug resistant strain MRSA, we could
find, actually, we could detect these differences and antibiotic
killing within about 45 minutes or so. Which was really
promising considering the gold standard technology takes it
takes days.
Andrew Alridge: I was gonna say that in itself, as a non
academic, that sounds like a massive increase in kind of what
that the standard was previously.
Unknown: Absolutely, absolutely massive, massive, you know,
bringing that down from days to minutes is really what it's all
about. So, in that stage, you know, from our point of view, we
were still thinking academically, we thought we need
to publish this, we need to get this out there. But at that
stage, actually, the university's commercialization
team got involved and said, you know, let's just put the brakes
on a little bit. I think there's something here, let's, let's
discuss, you know, commercial potential, can we maybe put in
an invention disclosure failure pattern, and, you know, at that
stage, we're good. Yeah.
Andrew Alridge: Okay. Sounds good. Sounds good. Yeah,
Unknown: let's do that. We didn't really know where they
could go. But let's, let's get that go. So we filed a patent
back in 2019. That almost immediately off the back of that
we had a paper that was ready to go and we and we went ahead and
published those findings. But at that stage, and we didn't
realize the sort of the implications this would have but
We got lots of media attention actually off the back of that
sort of proof of concept work that we've done. And it was
picked up just in the UK of actually international press
picked up as well. And we found ourselves suddenly thrown into
the deep end, where we're getting interviews on the BBC,
the local news channels came and filmed a piece. And it really,
you know, it was almost outside our comfort zone, but it was
quite invigorating, actually seeing the sort of impact that
you could have with us. And it made us realize, I think, as a
team, where this where this could go.
Andrew Alridge: And I guess that's kind of a validation
itself of what you're doing. There's, there's a there's a
there's a market, there's a desire, there's a need for this
because you wouldn't have that kind of interest unless there
was and within that particular guest MRSA over the last year.
God knows how many years has been such a kind of a headline
grabber that I guess there's that that's that's kind of where
the interest came from.
Unknown: That's absolutely right. So from a technical point
of view, that validation, you're absolutely right was vague. And
people knew about the public health fair with as you say,
MRSA and some other fungal infections. Now that's starting
to come to the fore here, but MRSA is always has always been
there, but just that emerging, and nervous, repeated drug
resistance behind, you know, organisms, like like staph
aureus, and others within that hospital environment, I think
that's where the, the interest came from. But from Dana, I
guess, in the end to call it a bit more of a commercial angle.
So the technical validation was ever gotten as proof of concept
data, obviously, that was continuing under the guise of
university at that stage. But we then started to explore other
avenues in which we could let us have a look at the commercial
potential of this. So you know, what we got involved a lot with,
with Scottish Enterprise, at that stage, went through two
rounds of their Highgrove spinner program, which was
excellent because again, it enabled the technical
development to continue and but also enabled myself to start
building that commercial case alongside the help of others get
commercial champion involved to them later became our shared
entrepreneur, Malik. So that was really, you know, fantastic
relationship building exercise.
Andrew Alridge: And I guess, for you that that move from academia
into the commercial world, you need that support around you to
kind of guide you and I guess it's kind of a whole new
learning curve for you, I guess, to some degree. Oh,
Unknown: huge learning curve. Very exciting learning curve.
Yeah, it was, but it was a huge learning curve. Yeah. And and it
certainly couldn't have done it with the with, with over support
to the network. So you know, in addition to the Scottish
Enterprise Support we went through in the UK is IKEA
program to really look at the market potential there. I went
through that our society of animals enterprise Fellowship
Program, which again, 12 month dedicated program, really God
gave me the opportunity to get out of the lab as it were, and,
and really explore that commercial potential and, and,
you know, learn all these aspects to really get over
business, essentially. So no, you're absolutely right. It's
all the support mechanisms, but absolutely crucial to then you
ever been able to spend this out ultimately, and see where the
river potential lay with with this worthless technology then
going forward? Absolutely.
Andrew Alridge: So you've mentioned that you see a Sony
CTO, or do any of this kind of team members around you that,
that you're part of the core team and driving this forward.
Unknown: Yep. So absolutely. So there's, there's four of us as
co founders of the business. So in addition to myself, and
Damian and Paul as CTO and CSO, Dr. Peter Mallick is involved
as, as our co founder and chair pronouns got a wealth of
experience across the sort of an entrepreneurial strategy type
table, as I see, you know, hugely influential as head of
investments at the University of Strathclyde sits on a number of
boards as well, like Scottish Enterprise, for instance. So you
know, she's brought a lot of value to the team there from
that commercial angle. We've also got Professor Andy Porter,
as our as a non exec data, you know, we appointed him just as
we were, as we were spinning out the business. And again, Andy
has given us a lot of huge, huge value there. And again, that,
you know, from the r&d team, as well, you know, boots on the
ground in the lab during the walk, we've got fantastic team
around design has continued to evolve and grow more, you know,
in our space have grown that in a moment. So yeah, it's been a
it's been a huge support for me on a personal level, but from
the business point of view, I couldn't do it without these
guys.
Andrew Alridge: So did you want to tell us a bit more about kind
of your background of you know, what research and things you've
been do your academic background prior to Michael Jackson?
Unknown: Yeah, no, absolutely. Andrew. So my background is in
electronic and electrical engineering actually gone under
graduate and PhD from from Strathclyde.
Andrew Alridge: You've not moved for Pete? That's good. That's
good.
Unknown: There was a brief interlude. But I did some
postdoc work in the sofa fans,
Andrew Alridge: okay. It's been no you want to get some sewing?
Yeah,
Unknown: absolutely. But no, my my calling obviously was back in
Glasgow. But yeah, the PhD itself was in actually organic
electronics. So developing all the cold essentially stretchable
flexible tape, I've got an electronic tape systems. Okay.
So instead of using Sega, again to turn it on, but I guess
instead of Using a silicon based sort of semiconductor materials,
the idea was to use sort of carbon based organic type
materials and meant you could use much lower processing
temperatures, which meant you could essentially pair with
tronics on to plastics or even paper to come up with really low
cost, but crucially, kind of bendy flexible sort of sensor.
So I was trying to embed these onto things for the electronic
scan purposes, for instance, for the voltage so all that sort of
stuff and you know, I'd always I'm gonna companies no looking
at that sort of smartphone use, which is really quite, quite
interesting seeing and they're actually being applied. But
crucially, I think my my expertise from the PhD and enter
into postdoctoral work in in France was around that
microfabrication sensor development side of things and
really hadn't that strong aspects. So that was really
useful for them bringing that back to, to make sure play
there. And when I've rejoined Strathclyde, admittedly
biomedical engineering at that point in not trying to get
illogical but yes, still snow engineering. Yep. But yeah, that
certainly being that sort of sensitive microfabrication
experience to the fore was, I think, crucial in terms of just
developing that that initial product, certainly, I've always
had an interest to think in, in that microfabrication sensor
development. But the sort of diagnostics and health tech side
of things certainly came a little bit laterally towards
some of that postdoc experience possible, then really sort of
picked up as a rejoined Strathclyde to do some of that
work. And then the interest in commercialization kind of fade
off the back of that. So again, you know, going back to that
previous point, where we saw the traction and the potential of
the of the technology, when it went through that media
attention, made me realize, actually, the commercial pieces
is really valuable here and the insights that ultimately, the
technology could have, and that sort of has been piqued my
interest. And going forward in terms of commercializing,
commercializing
Andrew Alridge: kind of a lightbulb moment, isn't it when
I guess as an academic, you can, you can see the science, you
understand why the science works, but those that kind of
having that that lightbulb moment, I go, Oh, there was a
commercial purpose for this. And we can actually see where this
would work in isolation, rather than being part of a wider r&d
kind of project.
Unknown: So to say so, so true. And I think that really then
started to focus our mind a little bit on because we knew we
had a platform, yep, capability with this technology. But again,
that's one of the challenges, basically, you know, it's a
blessing and a curse, because actually, you can then go,
there, there's a huge potential here that has a real market need
here? Where do we want to focus first, where do we get that
initial traction, then we can look to maybe expand that out
into into some of these other areas, but, you know, the two
have to go hand in hand, the technology needs to be there,
but also needs to be needs to be customer for at the end of the
day, and then it needs to be there. And if you can see that,
and certainly I think that's where healthcare is, it's
usually beneficial in one respect, because the, the sort
of clinical impact is always what sort of drives that
development work. So again, you can, you can get ready access to
the clinicians, that sort of patients, and that really helps
validate what you're doing.
Andrew Alridge: You can almost see the immediate benefits of
it. Yeah, it is, it's science. So A, A plus B equals C kind of
thing. It's, you know, that whereas I guess in other
technologies in other consumer products, etc, and is about
market forces and market demand, etc, is little bit more Willie,
whereas you guys, if you prove the concept, and it works, and
you can see where how that has a direct impact on healthcare
systems, etc, then you can see that that kind of pathway to
where you want to get to yes,
Unknown: that's absolutely right. No, absolutely. Andrew, I
think it's, you know, the customer deserve and you deserve
it, it's about and yes, okay, you need to build the build that
data as you're going and, you know, work with, with key
opinion leaders, with clinicians to really help refine, and I
guess, fine tune that offering to make sure that it fits within
the care pathway, because that's another thing you need to look
at, you know, it's from our point of view, bringing it down
to from days to minutes, absolutely fantastic. We're just
going to fit within the existing structure. And some of these
systems are relatively rigid. So it's making sure that if the
clinical leaders there, that's great, but actually, how does it
fit in within that overall pathway? So
Andrew Alridge: how do you make sure it's adopted? And yeah,
absolutely. And that's absolutely I think that's often
overlooked as well. You know, you're sending when we work with
with medical companies, etc, or pharma companies, it is
understanding that that route of disruption, how are you gonna
disrupt that market? Because, yes, there might be an obvious
reason to use your product. But you know, ultimately, you've got
still disrupts the current usage and adoption of clinicians. So
yeah, it's it's an interesting kind of approach you have to go
through. So what have been the the key milestones today then
you mentioned, you know, wars and things, but you know, kind
of what have been the key milestones today.
Unknown: I think really growing that team, you know, off the
back of incubating in the university, getting that strong
founding team together, getting the you know, Andy involved as a
non exec and then from that point, being able to raise, you
know, substantial P seed funding and closing, you know, seed
funding rounds now as well. And that really helped propel us
forward to think so it enabled us to form our license agreement
with the University spello entirely good over a really
strong team and continue to push on with the technical develop.
And towards that, that first product area we're looking at
for urinary tract infection specifically, I think, you know,
scaling with teams, you know, sort of turnovers involved from
different aspects, you know, in terms of r&d management,
strategic advisory type roles, and really driving forward a
number of developments. As I say, crucially, technically,
with some of that, some of that what we've been doing on a
regulated regulated compliance system, doing some pre clinical
evaluation testing with the NHS, and again, that's been hugely
valuable in terms of building that dataset, again, proving the
validation of the technology and underneath there. But also, you
know, going back to some of those other aspects, we touched
on there being cognizant of the fact that there are other
markets for this, this is a global issue, you know,
antimicrobial resistance is, is great to have the, you know, I
guess the network performance, you know, on our doorstep to be
able to do some of this testing, but equally need to be looking
at places like the US Europe, even low and middle income
countries that we really want to get a handle on on antimicrobial
resistance as a global health threat. So doing quite a lot of
that that sort of early validation there to understand
the markets has been
Andrew Alridge: regularly flagged by the WHO as being a
major challenge facing the health of the world. So I guess
it certainly isn't just a UK issue, it is an international
and being flagged by the WHO IS is a shows that the enormity of
the challenges being faced and the importance of what you're
doing. Yes.
Unknown: Absolutely. Absolutely. So who have been a fantastic
push towards, towards, I guess, individual countries,
recognising the need to implement some, some policies,
no, essentially, and some strategies to try to try to
address this. So they have been very valuable. And I think, you
know, as one of the things about antimicrobial resistance, it's
always, it's always been there. But it's now getting quite a bit
of traction and recognition crucially from from agencies,
lovers who from governments, but you know, individuals, I think
the public have got far greater awareness now, perhaps off the
back of COVID, for instance, but just the need for diagnostics in
general, and has been, that's been really helpful, actually,
in terms of selling the story from our point of view to so
it's, it's great to see not before time, let me add, but
it's, it's great to see some traction out
Andrew Alridge: and for for a layperson, like myself, this is
why I do these podcasts. So it's always a laypersons level. So
you know, this is this is important. But you know, just
tell us a bit more about kind of anti microbial resistance and
why it's becoming more and more of a of a challenge, and then a
threat, if you like.
Unknown: Absolutely. So essentially antimicrobial
resistance or kind of Amr, it really boils down to bacteria,
viruses, fungi, parasites, sea salt, pathogens, basically
evolving, changing over time, yep. And no longer responding to
medicines which used to be used to treat. So that emerging
resistance, essentially that like carefully, evolution of
these, these parasites over time really makes infections and
longer term, far harder to treat, because you're losing the
ability to treat them with medicines and antibiotics, for
instance, once dead, used to be used to be effective. So that
then sort of societal level then increase the risk of disease
spreading severe illness, and ultimately, their death,
unfortunately, a number of circumstances. And really, ever
since antibiotics were first discovered, and really approved
for clinical use, EMR has been there and started to grow. I
think that is one of the one of the challenges a little bit this
is kind of known as the silent pandemic. It's not like
COVID-19, for instance, where it was upon is almost overnight,
and we have to do something about it. EMR has always been
continuing to grow. So it has been gradually getting worse for
decades. And going back to the earlier point, that is one of
the challenges to get governments and health agencies
globally to start taking diabetes action, it's at what
point do we want to step in and start to do something about this
because it has been sort of slowly evolving. It really, from
our perspective, one of the challenges behind EMR as really
that clinical challenge at the moment, because there are no
regulatory approved ways to be able to rapidly tell whether an
antibiotic is going to be effective, because the current
sort of gold standard processes for what they call antibiotic
susceptibility testing, really that process of choosing which
antibiotic is best for the patient, because that takes a
minimum of two days, sometimes even longer for some of the
bloodstream infections that can take up to a week in some
circumstances. When a doctor has got patient in front of them
with a suspected infection, they end up prescribing imperfectly.
So essentially taking a best case from Yes, antibiotic
prescribing guidelines, but they're still having to take a
guess as to which antibiotic may be useful. And they end up
taking the punting going for a broader spectrum antibiotic in
the hope that it's going to clear up that infection that
when you overuse and misuse some of these broad spectrums, it can
then lead to exacerbating the issue. You have old resistance.
So it's important to try and really get that nada, one more
targeted antibiotic to the patient more quickly. But of
course, when faced with with that choice of taking a choice,
they will go broad overnight or which is where that technology
thing comes in. But just a bit, some figures on that for you. So
for instance, for our first application area, looking at
urinary tract infections, yep, one of the first line
antibiotics that's been used for for decades now to treat UTIs is
something called trimethoprim. We're now seeing trimethoprim
resistance widely, and this is within the UK where resistance
actually isn't as high as some other countries widely, if 33 to
50%. So as one in two, one in three patients, so our base
case, that will turn up to given trimethoprim. And it just won't
clean up where we're UTI will then need to come back and get
another one. So that's where that real need is to make sure
you get the right one. And I think what's what's quite stark
even with, say UTIs. But one in four senses cases can be linked
back to a poorly treated UTI. So it's really important to make
sure you stay away. Yeah, absolutely. And the number of
deaths is clear. No, because that's obviously a key metric
that's mapped. And at the moment, there's already close to
1.3 million global annual deaths attributed to these drug
resistant patients where they just aren't able to treat and
the estimate actually by 2050, could reach 10 million unless
serious intervention start to take place. So, you know, it's
time as you say, time is absolutely of the essence.
Absolutely.
Andrew Alridge: And I guess, as you alluded to before, I guess,
you know, layperson, knowledge, yeah, I like like person
templates, me It sums me up layperson knowledge of kind of
how drugs work, etc, has been, I guess, completely gone, gone
above anything previous because of the COVID 19 pandemic, you
know, people understood that Yeah, yeah, that that drugs
change and, and viruses and things change, etc, and evolve.
And actually, that is exactly what you're dealing with. But on
a larger scale, because it's not just one virus, it's not just
one one element, it's across the board with with all antibiotics
and what's going on there. So, so I guess, that, I guess is
that another reason why the press interest over last couple
years has been so interesting, what you're doing is that, do
you think that's linked?
Unknown: I think there's a massive link between between
COVID-19 Yeah, absolutely. That evolution of, of the virus, and
what we're doing, and you're absolutely right, you know, Amr
kind of encompasses the bacterial side, the fungal side,
you know, all of these different different elements. And, you
know, as you say, it's not just one virus is one pathogen,
there's a number of these are showing, showing emerging
resistance. So I think that has certainly helped. But I also
think the way we're looking to tackle it has helped as well,
because you know, there's a number of ways you can try to
skin the cow and Ami universe companies out there trying to
develop new new antibiotics, for instance, which has its own
inherent challenges. And the fact that it's hugely capital
intensive, has been no new antibiotic classes drawn to the
market another 13 years or so just because of some of the
challenges here and some of the pharmaceutical companies are
incentives to do so. But, you know, that is one aspect to it,
but also the vaccine development that we saw going down with of
COVID-19 To a degree, but then there's the diagnostic side,
which everybody had experience of, at some point through, you
know, PCR testing, a lateral flow testing, for instance, for,
for COVID. And it's not just someone I respect, and it's made
our lives in some respects, a lot easier, you know, been
talking to investors and talking to stakeholders, and that wider
sort of public awareness in terms of what we're doing, has
certainly been helped by COVID. And I think the public recognize
the need for for useful diagnostic tools, it can help
decide whether they actually need that treatment, or or then
how to interpret your current situation and where to then go
to go with that, you know, if it's a choice between toning up
and getting, as I mentioned, a drug that is only effective
maybe one of three, one or two times or, or actually let's do a
test, let's find out. Either you have that infection, and B then
how would you be treated appropriately? You know, I say
it's a no brainer. So I think, you know, that public awareness
of things like even sensitivity, specificity, these are words
that just we're not, we're not used going back three years.
common parlance.
Andrew Alridge: Yeah. So what? So lots of opportunities, lots
of things you've been working on lots of milestones to date, but
what have been the kind of challenges or barriers or that
you faced along the way because nothing's ever plain sailing?
Yeah. What What have you faced?
Unknown: Yeah, absolutely. So I think we touched on one of these
already. But again, aware today is that sort of clinical
awareness, I suppose. And that sort of wider public awareness
of of Amr. And I certainly think that is growing and COVID is
held there. But I think that understanding of the need to
almost act now. And let's do something about this. No, let's
not kick the can down the road any further when it comes down
to microbial resistance, I think. And that is, as I touched
on that sort of idea of the silent pandemic, and it's always
been there. Yep. But, you know, Amr by 2050 that 10 million saga
comes to die, so tell more than cancer and diabetes combined.
It's a huge existential fear facing humanity.
Andrew Alridge: Genuinely Thinking I think, petit when you
think about the, the levels of investment into cancer
treatments, etc, and things like that, so cancer survival rates
are going up. So this is the next big challenge is
Unknown: absolutely no couldn't couldn't agree more. And I think
we are starting to see the tide turn, which is great. And I
think more can always be done there. But I think it's, it's
really encouraging to see lots of the some of the some of the
developments in this space. But I think that's one of the
challenges, you know, convincing, you know,
governments funding agencies, what have you to do something
about this? No, and, you know, let's go over that initial
inertia, it's time to really get moving on that. I think as well,
from the sort of platform and our technology, specifically,
point of view, you know, this is a platform that we're that we're
developing here. So we're starting off with with urinary
tract infections, after doing some pretty focused market
validation and clinical understanding work, that had a
number of other opportunities there, you know, we can move
into the bloodstream infections, fungal infections, there's a
number of different areas, we can go here. And actually, as a
team and trying to prioritize, you know, bandwidth, you know, I
do what I would do all of these multiple angles in parallel and,
and go forward. And you know, you need to you need to become
solidified that, let's, let's look at what we can do with the
low hanging fruit to degree what's a beachhead opportunity,
and for those that that is urinary tract infections, but
this is being mindful of that I'd have an opportunity here,
where can we then maybe take this technology. So again, that
is a challenge to just solve that in our heads and sort of
see what we're doing, we want to go with this. And in time, what
makes more sense from a technical point of view, or
clinical point of view, but also the commercial imperative there
as well. So all of them need to sign it up. I think, again, a
final maybe one would be, I guess, a relatively slow route
to market for a technology like this. Now, obviously, in life
sciences, there's a little bit of a slower return for for
investors and things like that, because of the need to go
through the regulator. The approval was a clinical trials
and that sort of thing. And some investors may see that as a
slight barrier to return, for instance, within you know, that
sort of more traditional kind of few year timeframe evidence, and
some may just take slightly longer over, of course, the rest
of this sort of risk is embodied by that higher reward reward
potential. And I think that's something that the bridge
understand a lot in terms of Life Sciences portfolio there,
which is, which is fantastic.
Andrew Alridge: I think you're absolutely right on that. And I
think that's, you know, why we want to hear is from one tech
and one life scientist specifically because life
sciences companies do before performing and not performed,
but behave differently to other kinds of companies. And, and I
think people investing in life sciences, through our fund or
through other funds out there. Understand that? And I guess,
yeah, we're seeing certainly more and more capital coming
into life sciences sector as the wider the wider world, whether
that be private equity, whether that be private investors become
more and more savvy in terms of what to expect from Life Science
investments. So I'm hoping that sir, longer term is good news
for you and your goals and ambitions.
Unknown: Absolutely, absolutely. No noise. It's fantastic to hear
that, Andrew. And I think you're absolutely right and post, you
know, things can take a little bit longer. But there's a low
element of risk in that respect, Sam over towards the other end
of that need is such that I think it certainly makes the
appetite still still to be stronger. So I think, you know,
that's just something we need to be mindful of, as well as we're
sort of pitching the candidate expectation in terms of which
market side but that potential big win on the other side, and
where we can then crucially, go with the platform capability.
Certainly always, always, always ask those challenges, I feel
Andrew Alridge: so what are your next next steps? Next goals?
Kind of yeah, what's, what's the short medium term look like?
Unknown: I think certainly conclusion of this Can I can
kind of fundraise at the moment, really scaling sort of r&d
management, operational teams quite considerably, you know,
really increasing the bandwidth that we've got, as part of a
team. That will be that's really exciting sort of phase for us,
actually, at the moment. On the sort of technical front,
certainly scaling up the production of the minimum viable
product for the UTI system, the cartridges, the instrumentation,
and again, going through more sort of preclinical evaluation
studies with our preferred NHS partners, and then looking, I
guess, further afield really, for developing some of the work
we've been doing. And other markets, the US and Europe in
particular, just making sure that aligning closely with the
regulatory and ultimately adoption strategies in these in
these markets, and starting to scale up some of that route to
market peace across those geographies, again, which I
think we you know, we've identified some, so we were
going to be sharing opportunities there
Andrew Alridge: in terms of kind of expectations. You might not
have necessarily gone into so much details yet, but do expect
somewhere like the US to be an easier market to get into rather
than the beach that is the NHS because in the US you've got
competitive kind of healthcare services.
Unknown: I think it certainly could be I think it certainly
could be him. I think at the moment we're keeping all options
open, which I think is a sensible thing to do. You know,
when engaging, engaging locally with got some fantastic NHS
partners, and we're working with a number of their clinical and
innovation team bodies. But, you know, I'd be lying if I said we
weren't looking at the US market and even even some of the
European market opportunities as well. But actually, there may be
potentially some easier wins and, and Airlie sort of forced
entry points for those, you know, is that as a completely
different healthcare system there, the clinical need will
always come out sort of on top when it comes to the US. And I
think that's part of our strategy at the moment, you
know, over the last few months with engaging with regulators,
the body there, the FDA to understand their, their
requirements, and has been hugely valuable in terms of
informing our, you know, our validation strategies and the
clinical testing strategies going forward. But crucially,
that reimbursement piece, and as that's quite a, you know, a
distinction between, I guess, what they do in the US compared
to what's in the UK, and, you know, understanding where we
would fit within that care pathway, but also, what is a
willingness to ultimately pay for the technology, and that
feeds into the commercial piece, which, again, is important in
the NHS. But if you can conquer that, but then actually, it's
usually far easier, and certainly good, good stories
that you can point to that have shown that that is a nice route
to go down. But, you know, from my point of view, keeping all
the options open. And, you know, from our point of view, we'd
love to be able to step into the NHS, it's a local market with so
much validation work with them, you know, hopefully that can
that can also become a reality and time to
Andrew Alridge: absolutely, yeah, it's you, as a user of the
NHS here, we want the NHS to be utilizing the best, the best
products and the best kind of tool sets have their hands open,
that makes perfect sense. Just kind of quickly, going back, I'm
conscious of time, but just kind of going back. You talked
initially, we talked about your current transition from academia
into the commercial world, and you touched on you're working
with like Scottish Enterprise, innovate, UK, etc. What how has
that ecosystem been to support us? Is that been kind of
invaluable? And kind of what what kind of support has been
provided throughout kind of, you know, whether it be other
funders, we ourselves, etc? And what what is that kind of
ecosystem look like to you? And how valuable has that been to
you?
Unknown: Yeah, no, I think that's a great question. And I
think the early stage ecosystem, in particular, in the UK has
been incredibly beneficial. So as actually, you know, there was
a number of opportunities available to us for studying and
incubating within the university. So, you know, I've
touched on Scottish Enterprise that Hegel, offspinner program
that that really did give us a solid 18 months to get, you
know, get our story straight, advancing technology and
Cleese's sort of technology readiness levels, but also get
our commercial picture, you know, front and center of our
remaining global teams. So that was hugely beneficial. But
alongside things like you know, Underbase IQ a program to really
understand the market opportunities here. The roses
motivated was enterprise fellowship program on a personal
level, for me massively beneficial in terms of really
making that leap from sort of academic research into the
commercial lead for tomato play GX. A few of us, you know, I
mentioned certainly, through the University of Edinburgh, we've
done some work with them as well, Vicky, ie, best readiness
program, again, really, really beneficial for us. Some of the
competitions locally in Scotland, like combat challenge,
giveaway as run up there, and then can always win at a
Scottish age. Again, really supportive ecosystems, were
really useful in terms of the cash prize, but also some of the
business support that goes alongside that. And, you know,
some of the other bits and pieces of you know, things like
state aid support we've had through through people like CPI,
they've got a scope program, we were able to take advantage of,
there was a regulated health trip program, they gave us a
huge amount of funding actually, to start doing quite a lot of
work in the day later the piece, which is really beneficial.
Again, pointing to the university we bid on recently
just completed their six month AI accelerator program as a huge
aspect of the data and some of the artificial intelligence pain
diagnostic as well. So it was really beneficial for us in
terms of you really scaling that too. So and then obviously, when
it came to the PCT funding, you know, deep bridge coming in,
which was just fantastic for the ESA seis and EIS, funding
mechanisms and, and the university support from
Strathclyde as well coming in there to support and CO invest
alongside the bridge has just been hugely beneficial. So no, I
would say the UK ecosystem is thriving in that respect to that
early stage. And, you know, from our point of view, more me that
sort of continuously as we continue to scale the business
and hopefully keep keep alive a number of the opportunities that
once you know where they are sort of prior to Brexit.
Hopefully we'll see coming out the other side of that still a
strong ecosystem that's supportive to early stage
businesses are certainly
Andrew Alridge: what we're seeing as well. I think that's,
that's it's always good to hear from from people who've been
there on the journey themselves, because yeah, we maybe have a
helicopter view over it, but to actually see people who have
gone through that. So I guess, I kind of just following on from
that. If you're if you're speaking to an entrepreneur or
founder kind of who's looking to to kind of go through the
process you've been through but what would be your advice or
what would be your kind of getting your advice to them?
Yeah, Yeah, particularly in the in the life sciences and r&d
sector?
Unknown: Yeah, it's an interesting question, I'd
certainly say go for it. You know, I think it's huge, hugely
rewarding. And I think there's just so much potential out
there, particularly in this life sciences space. And so you can
put that new disorder pattern, I think it's, it's a really
exciting space and time to be doing some of this work. I think
patience is absolutely key, I think, expectations against
stuff done overnight, you know, when you're dealing with, as I
say, things like the NHS and some of the regulatory
approvals, you know, you need to need to be patient, this is a,
this is a long term ambition, you get the winds along the way.
But this, you know, as a longer term sort of engagement to some
of this, I think, equally, you know, at this stage, we'd we
went through quite a bit of this was really carefully as a team
mapping out where our strengths lie, you know, what makes sense
for us as microplate dx to really focus on team on versus
what makes sense to maybe outsource to others that have
been there before working, you know, choosing partners, and out
of state partners being the whole sort of ecosystem that we
may want to work with being doing that carefully. Because,
you know, r&d intensive businesses, certainly for us,
it's about this sort of IP generation, it's about the new
ideas, fresh ideas being sort of innovated and perspect. So we
realized that's where the strengths lie, and then working
with a resource manufacturing regulator to people that can
then bring that whole package together. So I think that's
useful, just, you know, being mindful of where the strengths
are and what you might want to do externally. I think as well,
with that view in mind of that sort of knowledge intensive
piece, failing IP, having a strong patent portfolio, for
instance, behind you is really, really important. If he then
comes to the sort of route to market, then the scaling, even
from the investment angle is going to be something that does
come up certainly in this space to make sure that people don't
snatch those ideas.
Andrew Alridge: Again, when you're raising funds, as well,
yeah, it's important to have that protection for investors,
because ultimately, that's what they're investing.
Unknown: So sure, no, absolutely, absolutely. So it is
really, really important for investors, but I think, you
know, alongside that, as well as go for different grant
opportunities, you know, look at what opportunities lie out there
to sort of come in alongside some of our equity investment,
for instance, you know, enter the UK, for instance, or point
to massive numbers of grant opportunities available, there
are things like r&d tax credits, explored all of these avenues, I
think, to sort of supplement some of that investment. But I
think overall, you know, innovation will take time, I
think surrounding yourself with good people building a strong
team, and ensuring that everyone within the organization, you
know, believes in that mission, and knows this all the reason
for being essentially of the the business and that, you know,
successful then come and team.
Andrew Alridge: Absolutely, I think, you know, again, people
who are on the podcast will be delighted to know that I have
nothing to do with investment decision making in deep bridge,
and that is rightly so. But yeah, when when I see companies
in particular, so microplate, dx, the certain things that we
always talk to entrepreneurs and founders about, and you kind of
ticked all of those boxes in terms of surround yourself by
great people. Yeah, that is that's first and foremost,
you've got to have the right people that you can rely on the
IPPS, etc, that those hopefully comes out. But the key thing
which you've you've certainly done in abundance is going after
that grant funding, give yourself that runway, giving
yourself that cash to actually do what you need to do without
having to take the first offer on the table, etc. You know,
that's really impressive what you've done there and that's a
win certainly, yeah. When when I was looking at microplane for
the first time, it was really impressed to see that you've
kind of gone through those cycles with Innovate UK Scottish
Enterprise, etc. And all the other ones you mentioned because
that's, that's vital. And there was so much funding out there
for startups and and early stage companies, particularly in
innovative spaces like yourselves.
Unknown: You absolutely no, thank you for that. And, you
know, I appreciate that. I think that as long as it's balanced
isn't is, you know, trying to trying to be sensible it's is
there's a there's a trade off I suppose. And I never spent you
know, sometimes there's a lot of heavy lifting to be done. But
you know, if you get one of these grants, yep, I can extend
the runway and extend your ability to then move into Java
areas accelerate development far more quickly. So it's, it's
worth worth doing it
Andrew Alridge: and they can extend your network as well and
the people around you that support network which is which
in itself and very well, I'm conscious of timeshare I mean
this is your I can chat to you all day so you're away from away
from the office and yeah, we always like to bring a bit of
personality to these podcasts just you know people realize
that you know that we are all normal human beings but so so
away from managing and running a fast paced scale a business
which I can imagine takes a majority of time but what your
personal interest away from from from the office from the lab.
Unknown: Yeah, I mean, I like whenever that can lead to go
walking you know, in the countryside near where to stay
and then sort of Washington area and rain for sure. But, you
know, get up to the islands or a couple of hours away, we'll get
some fantastic walks on our doorstep in Scotland. We are
blessed with beautiful scenery and fishing countryside. So, you
know, try and do that as much as as much as possible. Just get
away just it's incredible what a couple of days in the fresh air
and walking can do and I find usually the best ideas as a bit
of a cliche baby just ideas do come to your mind when you
actually do just take up bad time to chill and actually
experience. So that's a big one for me. And also I playing golf.
I'm not particularly great at it, I have to admit, but you
know, it's, it's always good to hack your way around the horse.
Andrew Alridge: And nobody has ever come on this podcast and
said they're good at golf. So yeah. That's good. That's good.
So then the question we asked all of our guests on the deep
rediscovery podcast is about the decrease dinner party. So if you
could invite three guests that decrease to the party dead or
alive, no friends or family who don't offend anybody? So but
yeah, who would those three guests be? And why?
Unknown: Fantastic question. So Nikola Tesla. For me, number
one, I think a real motivation for my sort of initial interest
in electronics and in engineering and really get a one
incredible human means. So I think that certainly, certainly
be one. Absolutely. I'm gonna say it's David Bowie. From a
music point of view, back catalogue. Absolutely
incredible. Love his stuff. And if his personality is not too
much, I guess we can just take one on his record zone and just
enjoy that well, but he thinks
Andrew Alridge: he had a dry sense of humor, so that would be
quite drastic,
Unknown: shouldn't be pretty good. Honestly, I really like
Gordon Ramsay. And that ties in nicely with the dinner party
piece. Because, you know, you can always cook the meal and any
consent down back. I quite like as some of these programs and
some of this, ya know, was my attitude to business, but
certainly, just clearly,
Andrew Alridge: that was gonna be my question. Is that Is that
how you deal with your team members as
Unknown: well? Well, yeah, we have the moments but yeah. No, I
think I think those three can lead for Sally Quinn interest.
And Neil, that's for sure.
Andrew Alridge: I was gonna say he'd have to be cooking. So I
don't think you'd get any chefs that would want him to be as a
guest. So he'd have to be in the kitchen. Now, that's
interesting. Three, I think. Yeah, that's, yeah, it's Yeah,
Tesla is. I guess it's kind of that the the kind of the
starting point for electronics and, and what have you. So I
guess that certainly isn't absolutely natural. And yeah,
it's, it's kind of makes perfect sense. Because you're brilliant.
Stuart, again, I could talk to you for hours. So thank you very
much for your time, I'm conscious that you need to go
back and run a business. So I'll leave you in peace, but
certainly really appreciate your time. And thank you for joining
us, and I look forward to catching up with you soon.
Unknown: Fantastic. No, thank you. Thank you again, Andrew,
for appreciate the opportunity. Good to chat.
Andrew Alridge: Thanks for joining us. If you have any
topics you'd like covering in future podcasts, then please
email us at Discovery at debrief capital.com. This podcast was
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