KATE MARTIN: Hello and welcome to the National Trust podcast.

I'm Kate Martin lead Ranger for Formby in Central Lancashire.

And once again, I'm leaving the familiar surrounds of the

northwest and heading down South.

This time, I'm in Hampshire where I'll be exploring an

unassuming patch of woods and short grassland that's full of

wildlife and history.

But it's after dark when this place really comes to life with

nocturnal activity that could make the unsuspecting evening

rambler blush.

I've just left the Cathedral City Of Winchester, which could

be considered the gateway to the South Downs National Park.

Now, it covers 628 square miles and with its rolling hills,

glorious heathland and long distance walking paths. The

South downs is a paradise for amblers, ramblers and walkers

alike.

But that's all to the east of Winchester... So why am I

heading west to a tiny triangular patch of land that's

sandwiched between two busy roads.

Well, I'll be meeting area ranger Cat Hadler who tells me

that if I keep an open mind, this local nature spot may offer

me an unexpected experience.

And here we are, we've just arrived.

Right then, busy road. Wonder why I've been brought to what

sounds like the M6. Let's go and have a look and see what this

sign says.

So according to this sign, I'm in the lower car park of a place

called Stockbridge Down.

Cat's asked me to meet her at the Down's highest point.

There's a path right ahead of me going through the woods. So I'm

assuming we just go through there and keep on going till we

meet Cat!

Just looking, I can hear the chirr-up of grasshoppers.

And it's funny, I'm only about minutes walk away from the car

park and I can't hear the traffic at all. It's amazing

actually how nature can do that can just sort of take you away

from one place to another in almost an instant.

Oh, wow!

And I just walking out into a lovely little woodland glade,

beautiful, surrounded by a mixture of Blackthorn and Hazel

creeping up through. You can see the colour of the rocks below

and of course, the bright white here because we're on chalk.

I see someone standing in front of me and I'm hoping that this

is Cat?

Hello, Cat!

CAT HADLER: Hiya!

KATE MARTIN: It's a hell of a slog up here, but what a view!

CAT HADLER: Yeah, it's worth it.

KATE MARTIN: It is worth it!

CAT HADLER: It's pretty much 360 when you're right on the top. So

in times gone past, this would have been of huge significance,

this area as a go between.

You've got the ancient capital of Wessex over in Winchester,

you've got the cathedral city of Salisbury and with the River

Test lying between them down in the valley, this is the highest

point.

So they probably would have used this to cross over and head

between the two ancient cities on pilgrimage, trade routes, all

sorts of things.

KATE MARTIN: Standing on top of this series of hummocks, which

essentially is just a steep bank with a ditch in between.

So you've got sort of- the one we're standing on here is really

quite steep. And this is very, very typical of a iron age hill

fort.

CAT HADLER: The steepest ramp is kind of the main hill fort and

on top of it would be the encampment and then you go down

into the moat.

KATE MARTIN: So Cat, how old do we think this hill fort is?

CAT HADLER: Well, it's iron age. So it's about 1000 years BC.

RYAN LAVELLE: So if we're thinking about a hill fort in

the iron age, we wouldn't be thinking about like a medieval

walled city like York with stone walls.

What we're talking about is the use of the hill and the moving

of the earth sometimes to build extra ditches as we have at

Woolbury Ring.

Also to build up a, a kind of escarpment at the top.

I'm Ryan Lavelle and I'm professor of early medieval

history at Winchester University.

The advantages of being in such an elevated position would be to

be able to see the countryside around, to show ownership of the

countryside around, to show some sense of control of that

landscape.

These were farming communities, places where extended families

might live and where their animals might be kept and where

food could be gathered and protected as well.

It's a place that may provide some refuge, some protection and

some status.

KATE MARTIN: Walking on top of the bank here. Obviously, the

path beneath us is very chalky.

CAT HADLER: It can look quite unremarkable to the untrained

eye because it could be a lot bleaker, especially in autumn

and winter.

It's- the grassland is much shorter. It's a lot more open.

There's less shelter.

KATE MARTIN: Is this what you brought me here to see?

CAT HADLER: There's more interesting stuff going on below

the surface! So I thought you're here to see things that lie

beneath.

KATE MARTIN: Oh, I'm intrigued!

So, come on, tell me the story. What is it that's here?

CAT HADLER: So, about five or six years ago, this little tiny

black segmented thing wobbled across the path in front of me

and it looked a little bit like a ladybird larvae.

So it's like a kind of extended wood louse in segments but

thinner and blacker and with little orange markings. And then

I went away and looked it up and in the end I found it was a

Glow-Worm larvae.

KATE MARTIN: Glow-Worms! That's pretty fascinating. I didn't

think we had Glow-Worms in the UK?!

CAT HADLER: Yeah, I think a lot of people confuse them with

Fireflies, which we don't have in the UK. But Glow-Worms we do

very much have. So both fireflies and Glow-Worms are

creatures that use bioluminescence to communicate

and attract each other.

But fireflies will do it flying around. Whereas Glow-Worms will

only do it on the ground or they'll climb up a bit of

vegetation and basically waggle their green bums from there and

then they'll glow better on moonless nights.

Tonight is a new moon, which is why I've brought you here

because we're doing our second survey of the year that we'd

like you to join in on.

Looking at my watch- It's about 8:30pm now.

Volunteers are due on site about 10pm. So if we just walk across

to the car park and we'll start setting up!

KATE MARTIN: Sounds great!

CAT HADLER: So I'll just get the maps out of my van and then I'll

show you how we do the survey.

KATE MARTIN: Great!

CAT HADLER: So I've got three aerial photos here of

Stockbridge Down. And on each one, it's got a different route

drawn and essentially you're walking sort of all spread out

in a line. So you all got your eyes on the ground, kind of like

a police crime scene looking for evidence.

KATE MARTIN: So apart from a sharp pair of eyes, is there

anything else we need?

CAT HADLER: Just to give focus and a bit of a hint of

competition.

KATE MARTIN: So it gets quite competitive does it?

CAT HADLER: Yeah, it does. And speaking of competitive, some of

the volunteers are arriving and it's only quarter past nine.

KATE MARTIN: Hello, I'm Kate!

GENERIC: Hello!

KATE MARTIN: So this is my first time on a Glow-Worm survey. What

about you?

GENERIC: No, I've been doing it for probably about four or five

years since we started.

It takes you a while to see your first one and once you get it,

it's like-

KATE MARTIN: So is there quite a bit of competition then between

the groups when you go out?

GENERIC: There would be if Dylan was here! He's a lead ranger.

Yes, he's very competitive when it comes to it!

KATE MARTIN: I don't know, maybe it's something about lead

rangers. Maybe we're all competitive. I'm quite

competitive!

GENERIC: I'm sure you will see some

KATE MARTIN: Oh Good. I hope so!

GENERIC: I hope I see some!

CAT HADLER: Right everyone! Should we go?

So we'll cross the road and then, yeah, we'll go off on our

different groups.

Everyone know who they're with? Wonderful! Oh, I'm excited! I am

excited! It's going to happen! We're going to find lots!

So for the best chance for us to see them-

KATE MARTIN: Yeah-

CAT HADLER: It's best if we spread out. So if you just go

over there between Scott and Mary and kind of hold the line

there-

KATE MARTIN: Yeah!

CAT HADLER: That'd be perfect.

Mary!

Oh, yeah, here she is!

Wonderful!

KATE MARTIN: I have to say it's a lot harder than I thought it

would be!

MARY: But it does help having seen them before to know what

you're looking for!

KATE MARTIN: Well fingers crossed. I'm hoping that we

might get an idea.

So, I mean, you obviously must enjoy it otherwise you wouldn't

be getting up [cross-talk]

MARY: I don't often come out here in the middle of the night.

KATE MARTIN: That's good to know, otherwise I'd be asking

some questions!

Thank you, Mary. It was nice to talk to you and let me know if

you see one. I'm desperate to see one!

Hello, Scott. Where are you?

SCOTT: I'm here! You've been up here before last time?

KATE MARTIN: No, no, this is my first!

SCOTT: This is my second. We- I came on the first one a couple

of months back when, sadly, we couldn't find anything. But

that's, that's life. It's a funny old year. But we want to

find the glowing bottoms which will make it worth it.

KATE MARTIN: So, what made you want to get involved with it?

SCOTT: Yeah, it is a fantastic environment to work in great

company with the guys that I work with.

And there's so much to do.

KATE MARTIN: Oh, we got one!

CAT HADLER: Oh, joyous! Oh, well done! Good Lord, I can't even

see it! Well done!

Mary your eyes! Gosh, you have a superhuman vision! Look at her!

That might be a larvae.

Well, it is eating a snail. I think you found a larvae because

they glow very faintly.

KATE MARTIN: Nice one!

CAT HADLER: Look. That is the first larvae I've ever picked up

on a survey!

KATE MARTIN: Oh, wow. That's incredible.

ROBIN SCAGELL: Curiously, the larvae actually do glow of their

own accord.

And we believe that the reason they glow is to try and deter

predators from eating them.

I'm Robin Scargell. I run the UK Glow-Worm survey.

There's nothing more delightful than walking along a lane in the

summer and seeing these little sparks of light which are female

Glow-Worms hopefully waiting for a male to turn up.

If you're a tiny beetle and you're around in the

countryside. How do you make friends? How do you get to meet

another person?

Another similarly minded Glow-Worm? Well, it's bad enough

for humans but it's even more difficult for tiny little

beetles in the landscape.

Now, some beetles use pheromones. They have a

distinctive smell and the males can pick that up over a long

distance.

In the case of Glow-Worms, they use light.

I would say it's a bit like people going to a dance or a

nightclub or whatever the females put on their best and

most attractive clothing and look as gorgeous as possible.

And the males sort of shuffle in, look around for this little

speck of light in the grass.

And so it is with Glow-Worms, the females actually light up

their lights and they can be seen from a long distance.

It's all about mating. She may last only a day or so as an

adult and then she lays her eggs and then more or less within a

few hours, she may well be dead.

KATE MARTIN: So now that I know what I'm looking for, I am

keeping my eyes peeled. But, it's actually quite tricky. It's

quite tricky trying just to watch what you put in your feet,

never mind anything else.

But sort of walking across here with sort of disembodied voices

and silhouettes in the distance it's a-

It is quite eerie, particularly when you think about, you know,

how long people have lived up here. You can imagine the sort

of ghosts of our ancestors following our every footstep.

That's quite scary really!

RYAN LAVELLE: As far back as 2400 BC at the dawn of the

Bronze Age, this was a place for burial mounds.

Those people who were buried, there were seen as important

enough to have these mounds erected as a kind of memorial to

them.

Fast forward to the 1060s AD this time, it's not used as a

place to honour the deceased, Stockbridge Down for Anglo Saxon

Society was used as a place to warn the living.

I'm Ryan Lavelle and I'm professor of early medieval

history at Winchester University.

So executions that we know of from this period tend to be by

hanging or sometimes by beheading.

There's evidence from Stockbridge Down that some of

these skeletons had had their hands bound together behind

their backs.

So evidently they were treated as prisoners, heads were placed

on stakes in public places so that they could be seen.

And this was a way of reminding people to behave.

You can imagine the people who are traveling along the

Stockbridge road looking up at the hill and shuddering slightly

as they see these heads looking down on them.

Going to a place like this after dark would be something that

would best be avoided.

KATE MARTIN: There is something isn't there about being in a

place where, you know, people have been for thousands of

years.

CAT HADLER: It is. We walk in the footsteps of history here. I

always look out at the view and see, you know, ancient man

looked out and the view would have been very different, but

the shape of the landscape would have been largely the same.

KATE MARTIN: Oh, is this one?

CAT HADLER: Oh, it is one! Hey, Kate's found one! Oh, look!

KATE MARTIN: Oh, so I'm so chuffed! So chuffed!

CAT HADLER: Good, isn't it?

KATE MARTIN: I don't feel completely useless!

CAT HADLER: Yeah.

Yeah, I just walked right past it. [Cross-talk as volunteers

arrive]

KATE MARTIN: There's one in there as well!

CAT HADLER: Which one are you looking at Scott?

SCOTT: Well I've got one here into the bushes.

CAT HADLER: So-

KATE MARTIN: There's one that side!

CAT HADLER: There's one here, there's one there, [Cross-talk]

You've got one! Oh good Lord. This is wonderful!

KATE MARTIN: Right, let me get-

Is there one over there as well?

CAT HADLER: Yeah, we got it! There it is. I can see it now,

dead ahead!

Right, Ok. Hold on. Sorry, Kate. We will finish this

conversation!

Oh my God. Now, I can't see.

Oh, yes. There's one in there and there's one down there.

Excellent. Oh, wonderful!

Cool! We'll just keep walking up in the line straight up to the

car park. Come on, guys, we can get one more before we get

back! [

Cheering] I said we had to have one more before we went home!

I would have kept you all here!

Gosh, I can see her! She's quite a biggie!

Ah, excellent work. Right. Let's get back to the car park and see

how everyone's got on.

Right, where is everyone? What's our result? Right. How did you

guys do? Tell us!

GENERIC: We did really well, thank you!

CAT HADLER: Oh, good, good. What have you got?

GENERIC: 15 females and 7 males.

CAT HADLER: Fantastic. Oh, very close. We've got 18 females, 7

males and a larvae eating a snail spotted by Mary, which I

have never seen before.

Oh, well done guys!

GENERIC: Is that a draw in reality? [Cross-talk]

CAT HADLER: Yeah. Well, there was a particular cluster on a

corner which will forever be kind of the peak busy corner in

the green light district in my head now.

Oh, well, thank you very much everyone and thank you for

hanging around to hear results. I appreciate it's getting on

now. We'll all be turning to pumpkins soon!

Yeah. Thank you very much. Everyone's signed in and out. So

yeah, please feel free to leave as you wish and get yourselves

to bed. Thanks guys. Thank you. See you later, Mike.

KATE MARTIN: It was a really good experience. I mean,

surveying a new species for me is always spectacular.

CAT HADLER: Oh, thank you. Thanks for coming. It was lovely

to meet you real joy.

KATE MARTIN: So, the volunteers have all gone Cat's left and I'm

all alone on this lonely little bit of chalk grassland.

But actually, it's really magical place to be at this time

of night. It's so rare that you actually get to be alone in a

place like this. You know, I've got open sky above me.

All the stars are twinkling. It's just beautiful.

Quite often it can be these little local areas that can be

the most magical.

Learn about it. Research about your local places because you

can get a fantastic wildlife experience in the most

unassuming quiet places.

Thanks for listening to this episode of the National Trust

podcast.

If you've enjoyed this episode, remember, the National Trust has

a huge resource of audio programmes to keep you informed

and entertained.

You can find all the podcasts on our network at

nationalturst.org.uk/podcasts.

We'll be back soon with a new episode, but for now from me,

Kate Martin. Goodbye.