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Narrator: You're listening to
the humans of DevOps podcast, a

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podcast focused on advancing the
humans of DevOps through skills,

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knowledge, ideas, and learning,
or the skil framework.

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Eduardo Briceño: This particular
framework became really helpful

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for them to align with each
other about how they wanted to

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foster a growth mindset culture,
and what it addresses is the

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confusion that the way to
improve is to work hard, that is

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simplistic and it gets us into
trouble.

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Eveline Oehrlich: Welcome to the
humans of DevOps Podcast. I'm

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Evelyn knowlage, Chief Research
Officer at DevOps Institute. I'm

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skipping the introduction today.
So we get more time with a very

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special guest, who is a thought
leader, author and very popular

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keynote speaker on developing
cultures of learning and high

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performance. Up podcast title
for today is exploring different

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zones. Stay tuned. And today we
have with us and I have a

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drumroll. Eduardo bird Sanyo,
who is a very, very popular

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keynote speaker as I mentioned.
Hello, Eduardo.

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Eduardo Briceño: Hello, Evelyn's
Great to see you. Great to be

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here.

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Eveline Oehrlich: Likewise, very
excited to have you on our

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podcast today. So let me quickly
and I will read this in third

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person. So this will feel
strange to you, Eduardo. So I'm

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going to just share with our
audience a little bit on your

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bio. So Eduardo is a global
keynote speaker, as I already

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mentioned, facilitator and
program provider who supports

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organizations in developing
cultures of learning and high

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performance. Prior to that, he
was the CEO of mindset works,

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the pioneer in growth mindset
development services, which he

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co founded in 2007, with
Stanford professor Carol Dweck,

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Lisa Blackwell and others, and
led for over a decade before

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that he was taking on investors
with Credit Suisse venture

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capital arm, the sprout group
and served on several for profit

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and nonprofit boards. It borders
TED talks on growth mindset, and

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Ted Talk on learning zone and
the performance zone have been

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viewed by over 8 million have
been viewed over 8 million

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times. And I'm one of them. His
book, the performance paradox,

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turning the power of mindset
into action, will be published

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by Penguin Random House in
September of this year. He is

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Behera Aspen fellow, a member of
the Aspen Institute's Global

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Leadership Network, and an
inductee into happiness Hall of

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Fame. Eduardo grew up in
Caracas, Venezuela, he holds a

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Bachelor degree in economics and
engineering from the University

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of Pennsylvania, as well as an
MBA and MA in education from

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Stanford University. Most
importantly, he continues to

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enjoy lifelong learning every
day. And that's exactly while

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you why you are here, Eduardo,
for our listeners to share your

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experience and how to actually
do that. So welcome again to our

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podcast.

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Eduardo Briceño: Thank you,
Evelyn. Great to be here. I feel

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like we have kindred hearts. I
look forward to the

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conversation.

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Eveline Oehrlich: Yes, the first
one. The first thing which I

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really want to know, of course,
everything else is exciting, but

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happiness Hall of Fame. I did
some research and check that

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out. You have to tell us about
that. What? What is that?

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Eduardo Briceño: Yeah, I didn't
know either. And it is actually

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one of the things I'm most proud
of, because, to me, it

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symbolizes a lot of change that
I have done in myself. I grew up

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being very unhappy, actually.
And I have really transformed

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myself over a lot of years. And
I lead a very happy life now

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with a lot of joy. And that's,
that's involved a lot of change

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in myself a lot of work in
myself. And so I was doing a

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keynote once and afterwards, a
man came to me and he said he

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was the executive director of
the happiness Hall of Fame. And

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I hadn't heard of it either. But
they had looked at my work and

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the impact that they felt that
was having on people and how I

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was spreading joy. And they
wanted to induct me into the

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happiness Hall thing so that you
know that to me, was striking in

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in symbolizing how much of a
change I had made myself.

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Eveline Oehrlich: Wow.
Fantastic. For our listeners,

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check it out. There are Eduardo
is in great company out there.

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There are a whole range of folks
you you got you listeners will

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all recognize. So that's
fantastic. Congratulations for

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being there. All right. So as I
mentioned to you already, when

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we did a little bit Have a pre
call. I'm a big fan of Professor

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Carol Dweck work, particularly
the work around the growth

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mindset. But I don't want to
assume that everybody on

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listening here has actually read
her book mindset or is familiar

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with. So why don't you share
with us a little bit about what

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a growth mindset is?

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Eduardo Briceño: Sure. And I'm
glad you're asking that because

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it's something that is really
easily to get distorted. It is

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something that a lot of people
haven't heard about, like you

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said, but also a lot of people
have, and a lot of people have

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read the book you just mentioned
Mindset by Carol Dweck. It's

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been a bestseller. But even for
for people who learn about

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mindset and do work on mindset,
and I'll start there. We, when

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we ask people who think they're
familiar with growth mindset,

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what a growth mindset is, they
often describe something

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different, like they might say,
it's, it means being open

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minded, or it means working hard
or persevering. And a growth

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mindset is none of those things.
A growth mindset is not

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something we do. It's not a
behavior. But it's a belief

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about the nature of human beings
is the belief that we can change

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the belief that our abilities or
qualities are malleable, or we

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can develop them. And the reason
so for example, if we think that

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some people are natural leaders
and others aren't, and that's

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what determines whether
somebody's a good leader, that

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would be the opposite of a
growth mindset is what we call a

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fixed mindset about leadership.
Or if we think that some people

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are introverted, and others
extroverted, and that's fixed,

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those are things that don't
change, that would be a fixed

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mindset. Versus we can work to
develop any of those dimensions

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we can we can work to become
more introverted, right, like

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more mindful, more reflective,
more more present more

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comfortable in solitude, and
more extroverted, more, more

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more in a state of enjoyment
when we're with other people,

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and great at conversation and
great at being funny, or

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whatever it is. So those that's
different from a fixed mindset.

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And a growth mindset is when we
see ourselves as fixed, or when

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we see ourselves as able to
change. And the reason that

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that's important, is that what
doctor mindset with Dr. Dweck

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research has shown and lots of
other researchers as well now is

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that we will try to change the
behaviors is really hard if we

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are in a fixed mindset. So if we
think that we can't change, then

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telling somebody, you know, to
work hard, or to be open minded,

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or to try to experiment beyond
the known that doesn't tend to

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work if people are thinking that
their abilities are fixed, or

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that other people's abilities
are fixed. And so we need to

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work on both changing our
beliefs about the nature of

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ourselves and others, and
changing our behaviors and

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habits. And those two things go
hand in hand.

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Eveline Oehrlich: Interesting. I
love that. I wish this book I

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haven't really checked, if that
book is also in German. I have a

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few colleagues who potentially
should read this, because we

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just had this conversation on
these assumptions. And I felt

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that they had a very fixed
mindset. So but I would love

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them to read it in German. I
will check on that.

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Eduardo Briceño: Later, too. I
think you know, 17 languages, if

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I recall correctly, yes. I bet
it is available in German and

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lots of other languages.

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Eveline Oehrlich: I will do that
research tonight and check with

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our favorite retailer, if that's
possible, right. So let me know

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I would like yeah, yes,
absolutely. So how did you

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actually get into the space of
developing cultures of learning?

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Eduardo Briceño: Well, you know,
the first time that I got into

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learning, I think was a time
that we all got into learning,

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which is when we when I was
really, really young. When I was

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a baby, when I was a young kid,
I think all of us are passionate

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about learning them, right? If
you look at a baby or young kid,

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they're trying to get up or like
crawl and like failing and

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trying again, and trying again
and trying a different strategy.

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Or they might be really looking
mesmerized at what we're doing

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with our voice in making all
these sounds that seem to you

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know, we seem to communicate
with each other and they don't

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understand what's going on. And
they're so interested and trying

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to understand that eventually
they come to understand language

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and they come to to understand
what it is that we're doing with

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our mouths. That's incredible.
And so, we have so many

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questions, right? kids ask so
many questions, but then what

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happens is that we get to school
and in school I think what tends

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to happen in school is tragic
because schools haven't, the

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goal of school hasn't been to
develop lifelong learners,

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right? It hasn't been to ignite
a fire for people to pursue

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whatever path they want to
pursue, to experiment and

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discover, rather, is being to
try to teach people some things

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that they might not be
interested in at the time. And

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so we start associating learning
with something that's boring and

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tedious and like something that
we do in school. And when we're

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home, we do it only when we're
doing homework, and when we're

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done with homework, then we're
done learning, right, and we go

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do something else. And so and so
we learn in school, that

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learning sucks that learning is
not relevant, it's not useful.

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And and we also learn to perform
all the time because so many

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things in school are graded with
a letter or a number that we we

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we get the message that what
we're supposed to do on a daily

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basis is to do things well to do
things we already know how to do

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to try to minimize mistakes. And
so I like many people, I

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believe, I went from loving
learning, to just trying to

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perform and to show that I'm
good and to validate myself. And

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I ended up you know, after
school, like there's no more

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tests and almost grades, but the
way that the best way that I

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could figure out to do well is
to get a high paying job, right?

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So I I went and I work in the
investment banking in New York

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City. And I know you, you you
worked at Forrester Research

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where you were in that kind of
similar world as well. Then I

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got into venture capital, and I
was investing in technology

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companies in Silicon Valley. And
after a few years of that, you

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know, it was it was interesting,
but after a few years of that I

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realized I actually got
physically sick. I was my I got

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a repetitive strain injury
called myofascial pain syndrome,

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it was painful and difficult to
use my hands to do simple things

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like brushing my teeth or open
doors or driving. And I met

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people with my condition who had
gotten so bad that they couldn't

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use their hands for more than 10
minutes a day. So I, I ended up

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stretching for an hour and a
half for every day for three

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years and getting treatment of
all kinds. You know, I went to

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Washington DC for six weeks to
get a particular treatment every

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day. So it was a big journey for
me to heal. But one of the

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things that I learned was that I
needed to, I couldn't take my

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hands for granted. I couldn't
take my ability to do things for

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granted. And so I needed to find
something that I was passionate

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about, and that I felt was
making a difference in the

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world. And so I went to grad
school to build that different

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path for myself. And over there.
I met Carol Dweck. And I read

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her book and I, she's my mentor.
She's been my mentor for since,

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you know, over 15 years, and her
work just learning about her

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work, I realized how my fixed
mindsets had gotten in the way

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of my goals. I was self
sabotaging. I realized how I

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needed to change my thinking and
my habits in order to really try

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things that I hadn't done before
and, and learn and develop

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myself. And I realized how a lot
of people could benefit from

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those same insights that I was
gaining from Dr. Dweck. So we

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partnered and co founded a
company called mindset works.

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And I led it for over 15 years,
my job became more and more

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public speaking. And that's what
I'm focused on 100% for for the

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last several years now. Wow.

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Eveline Oehrlich: fits very well
with, with my belief in how we

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want to lead our work in the
DevOps Institute. Because,

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again, if you think about what
we do, I'm sure you probably

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don't know, but I'll, I'll share
it with you and again with

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others. We're trying to help.
We're not trying but we are we

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know we are helping our
community members to learn. We

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call it upskilling or skill
building, right. And we do this

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by developing content, we do
trainings, we do certifications,

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we have events, and we
encouraged and fostered a fairly

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tight community. We have over I
think 90,000 or so fellow

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followers on LinkedIn. I just
learned that today. And we hope

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we can make a difference for
these individuals who want to

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learn and grow but it is
challenging. And so when I went

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off to help us give get some
insights in this learning and

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growth, that's how I found you
and I find your explanation on

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learning and performance zones
extremely helpful. And I would

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love for you to share a bit more
details with our community

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members to help them understand
these different zones. So please

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do share with us. What are the
zones Since you call them

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learning zones and performing
zones, and what what must we

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know about them for our daily
work?

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Eduardo Briceño: Sure. So the
learning zone and performance

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zone came from when I, at some
point, my work, businesses

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started reaching out to me
because they wanted to build a

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growth mindset culture. And in
those workshops, in getting into

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the conversations and trying to
help them build a growth,

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mindset culture, I tried
different frameworks and

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different routes to the
conversation. And this

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particular framework really
resonated and became really

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helpful for them to generate
insight and to align with each

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other about how they wanted to
foster a growth mindset culture,

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and what the the the one that
addresses is the the confusion

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that a lot of us have, that the
way to improve is to work hard.

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That is too simplistic, and it
gets us into trouble. So the

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reality is that there's getting
better at things or innovating

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is not just about working hard.
Because there's two different

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types of hard work, there's hard
work to get things done as best

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as we know how trying to
minimize mistakes. That's what

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we call the performance zone.
But in order to improve, we have

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to actually work to go beyond
the known and to ask questions

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and to experiment and to do
things that may or may not work.

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That's what we call the Learning
Zone. And it is by engaging in

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the learning zone that we get
better. So my book is called the

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performance paradox to
performance paradox is the

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counterintuitive fact that if we
perform all the time, we hinder

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our performance, we actually
stop ourselves from performing

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even higher if all we're doing
is performing. And that's that

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is a paradox, but it's true. And
so what we need to do in order

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to get better is to go beyond
the known and to do things like

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when you talk about upskilling
and skill building. Those are

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the things that happen with
great performers, right. So if

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you look at a great athlete, for
example, if they're playing a

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championship final, they're
going to be focused on the

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things that they do best, and
they're trying to minimize

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mistakes and be if they have a
weakness, they're going to try

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to avoid that weakness in that
match. That's all for

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performance. And because the
only goal during the match is to

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try to win the game. But what
they do after the game is the

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learning zone right after the
game, if they were having

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trouble with a particular move,
they're gonna go to their coach

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and say, Coach, I need to work
on that particular move. And

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that's a very different activity
and area of attention than what

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we do during the match. Right,
it's actually completely

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different. And it is what they
do in the learning zone that

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allows them to perform so well,
in court in the performance only

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if they're only playing games,
then they get stuck, right, they

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don't get better, in fact that
the Williams sisters, which

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became the best in the world,
Valium played any championships,

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any games. For years before they
turned professional, they were

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just in the performance zone,
sorry, in the Learning Zone. So

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the learning zone can be a pure
learning zone, like taking a

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course, or you know, doing you
know, reading is a pure learning

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zone activity. But we can also
integrate these two zones so

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that we do them together so that
as we're getting things done,

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we're doing things in a way
that's also going to lead to

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insight and to new skills and
strategies and to getting

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better. And so it's a by
integrating these two zones. We

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we can get better while also
doing all the things we need to

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do in our long to do list.

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Narrator: Do you want to advance
your career and organization we

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00:18:46,740 --> 00:18:50,520
can help you do that DevOps
Institute offers a wide range of

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00:18:50,550 --> 00:18:54,060
educational experiences for you
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290
00:18:54,060 --> 00:18:57,300
journey. Whether you're looking
for a defined path to

291
00:18:57,300 --> 00:19:01,350
certification, exploring the
latest in DevOps, or connecting

292
00:19:01,350 --> 00:19:04,170
with the larger community, we
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00:19:04,170 --> 00:19:08,220
specialized skills needed for
the future of it. And it won't

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events. You can connect with our
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your potential today. Visit
DevOps institute.com and join

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00:19:26,550 --> 00:19:27,630
our community now.

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00:19:28,770 --> 00:19:31,050
Eveline Oehrlich: So a quick
side note for everybody

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listening in. There are some two
fantastic TED talks from Eduardo

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00:19:36,150 --> 00:19:39,210
one is called How to get better
at things you care about. Check

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00:19:39,210 --> 00:19:43,890
that out. The other one is the
power of belief. So listeners go

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00:19:43,890 --> 00:19:48,090
to the TED Talk, easy to find,
and listen to it. Let's come

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00:19:48,090 --> 00:19:53,340
back to what you just said. And
this is very specific to our, to

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our folks in IT, particularly
the DevOps folks and others. We

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do a lot of, well, a lot If it's
a little bit of an exaggeration,

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we do something called a post
mortem, right? Actually, it's

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because it's such a nasty word,
we have renamed it to call the

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retrospective, because post
mortem sounds like we're killing

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something. But we don't want to
do that, we want to actually

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step back and look at what has
happened. And so that, I think,

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is an excellent example of an
integration of a learning zone

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and the performance zone. Would
you agree with that?

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Eduardo Briceño: Absolutely.
Yeah. That's a great way to

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integrate the Learn the
learnings and the performance on

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the retrospective is a wonderful
strategy. And it's also kind of

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what you know, great
performance, like athletes do,

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right? They perform. And then
afterwards, they might watch a

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video and see, hey, let's, let's
think about how that game went,

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and what can I learn? And what
do I need to practice. So that's

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the retrospective, in addition
to a retrospective, think about

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doing because retrospective,
also, can be called an after

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action review. That's a term
they use in the military. But

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and that's great, that's all
wonderful. But also consider

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doing kind of mid action
reviews, something that happens

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also kind of in the middle of
projects, and as a habit, rather

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than only when things go wrong.
When when people make a mistake,

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it's just we can always get
better, right? And so whether it

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is after projects, or after
there's an incident, which is

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wonderful to do think about
also, how can you do this

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proactively and as a habit, so
that you're doing it all the

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time regularly. And so it is
normalized is something that we

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all want to be doing on a
regular basis, because we can

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all continue to improve.

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Eveline Oehrlich: And, and it
becomes part of our day. Now,

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that I guess is the challenge.
Because, again, if I think of my

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times in it, I didn't have a lot
of time, it was very dynamic,

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very fast paced, I had lots of
performing to do, right. And

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even so in, we encourage people
to make mistakes and learn from

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that. At the same time, because
I'm delivering outcomes and

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values and our lives deliver
results. It is very difficult to

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actually combine those two and
and and kind of integrate them.

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Do you have any additional tips
for people? What What can our

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listeners do is just something
would you say? Do this once a

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day or once a week or something
like this? Because everybody is

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probably hungry, saying yeah,
this sounds all great. This is

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very theoretical, but be in my
shoes one day, write anything

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you would suggest?

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Eduardo Briceño: Sure. So first,
yeah, there's there's so

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strategies, I'll share a couple.
But first, I want to start by

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just recognizing the issue,
which is that if we only stay

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only worried about getting the
tasks done, then over time,

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we're going to make to be to
have a lot less time, right? If

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we want to create time and make
more time both for learning and

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for performance, then we have to
find ways to work smarter. And

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to get more work more done, like
more important things done in

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less time. And the way to find
that is to engage in the

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learning zone. So so we have to
figure out a way to engage in

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the learning zone, so that we
have more time, right so we can

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create time. And and so in
general, one way to get started

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is to do something as like
doesn't take a lot of time is

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very, very quick. And that you
can do frequently. So rather

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than try to say block two hours
every Friday like which is

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becomes really hard. It's better
to just spend like five minutes

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a day doing something or even
just one minute a day. Because

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what that that Prime's a growth
mindset and an interest. And

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then it is it is very frequent.
So we start building a habit,

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and then it becomes easier to go
from one minute to three

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minutes, and from five minutes
to 10 minutes, or then even

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more. So just to change our
thinking as we're going about

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getting things done throughout
the day. So we're just paying

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more attention to the things
that we can learn isn't isn't

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doesn't really involve doing
something differently. But it

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involves paying attention to the
things that we can learn. In

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fact, there's research that
shows that for people measured

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people's mindset, so they ask
them things like, Do you believe

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that you can become smarter? And
for the people who answered yes,

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I believe I can become smarter.
They looked at people's brains

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inside of a brain scan machine.
And they while they were solving

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problems inside of the machine.
And what they realized is that

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people who thought they could
become smarter, so who had a

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growth mindset about
intelligence, their brain was

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more active when they were
getting information about what

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mistakes they made during the
problems. And so they learn from

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those mistakes, and they were
more effective in solving

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subsequent problems. So they
became better problem solvers,

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because they paid more attention
to our mistakes. And they pay

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more attention to mistakes
because they thought they could

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become smarter. And so they
weren't spending any more time

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solving problems. They were all
just solving problems. but some

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of them were paying attention to
what they could learn and others

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weren't. And that made all the
difference. But some something

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that is very simple that anybody
can do. And I think it's really,

395
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really powerful is to build a
habit to every morning remind

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ourselves of what it is that I'm
working to improve. We're like,

397
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what one thing am I working to
get better at right now and, and

398
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review that every morning. And
what that does is first, it

399
00:25:27,510 --> 00:25:30,420
makes sure that you're always
working at improving something,

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a that be that's top of mind so
that you're thinking throughout

401
00:25:34,740 --> 00:25:37,200
the day and identifying
opportunities to improve so that

402
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when something comes up, you're
like, oh, that's relevant to

403
00:25:39,870 --> 00:25:42,480
what I'm interested in and you
pay more attention to it right?

404
00:25:42,690 --> 00:25:46,800
And then it Prime's a growth
mindset, it Prime's the reminder

405
00:25:46,950 --> 00:25:50,430
that we can always continue to
improve and develop ourselves.

406
00:25:51,180 --> 00:25:54,060
And so it gets us to think
differently throughout the day,

407
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every day. So that's just one
example of something simple that

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we can all do.

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00:25:57,630 --> 00:26:00,150
Eveline Oehrlich: Perfect,
fantastic. I am going to make

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00:26:00,150 --> 00:26:05,670
that for myself important. So
let's talk about quickly on the

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00:26:05,700 --> 00:26:08,760
upcoming book, the performance
paradox, turning the power of

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00:26:08,760 --> 00:26:16,410
mindset into action. It's
releasing September 5 2023. Give

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00:26:16,410 --> 00:26:20,850
us a few things, what to look
out for what's in that book, I

414
00:26:20,850 --> 00:26:24,180
already ordered it. So I'll
share with everybody else how to

415
00:26:24,210 --> 00:26:28,080
preorder it but give us a little
bit of a like two minutes on,

416
00:26:28,200 --> 00:26:31,170
what can we find in it? Sure.
And

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Eduardo Briceño: thank you for
pre ordering. And and yes, it's

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available for preorder in any
bookseller now. And yeah, I'll

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00:26:36,270 --> 00:26:38,040
describe a little bit the
structure that sounds good,

420
00:26:38,040 --> 00:26:44,460
because it also gives people an
idea of what kinds of things we

421
00:26:44,460 --> 00:26:47,370
can all work on in order to
become better at learning and

422
00:26:47,400 --> 00:26:50,940
performing. So the book is has
has three parts. The first one

423
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is driving individual growth,
which is about individual growth

424
00:26:54,390 --> 00:26:58,200
and the foundational ideas. Part
two is about overcoming the

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00:26:58,200 --> 00:27:01,590
performance paradox in teams and
organizations. So how do we

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create strong teams and
organizations? And part three is

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00:27:04,770 --> 00:27:07,860
from individual transformation
to global impact? So how do we

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take everything we're learning
and apply it in the performance

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00:27:11,370 --> 00:27:14,730
zone and apply it to change
lives. So in part one, about

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00:27:14,730 --> 00:27:18,420
individual growth, like Chapter
One is about the performance

431
00:27:18,420 --> 00:27:21,390
paradox, which describes what
the challenge is the problem.

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Chapter Two is the solution,
which is about the two zones

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that we talked about the
learning zone and the

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performance zone. Chapter Three
is about integrating the two

435
00:27:29,970 --> 00:27:33,330
zones so that we do them
together, right? So instead,

436
00:27:33,360 --> 00:27:37,110
it's not about learning by doing
because we don't learn by doing,

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00:27:37,260 --> 00:27:39,810
but it's about learning while
doing how do we change the way

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00:27:39,810 --> 00:27:44,670
we do things in order to, to
also improve? Chapter Four is

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00:27:44,670 --> 00:27:48,540
about six essential learning
strategies that we can all use.

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00:27:48,720 --> 00:27:51,630
Chapter Five is about mistakes.
And mistakes are interesting,

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00:27:51,630 --> 00:27:55,500
because mistakes on one hand, we
know that we can learn from

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00:27:55,500 --> 00:27:59,160
mistakes, and on the other hand,
mistakes, lower performance. And

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00:27:59,160 --> 00:28:03,930
so Chapter Five is about getting
more and more nuanced

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00:28:03,960 --> 00:28:07,110
understanding of mistakes and
getting clear about how can we

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elicit mistakes in a way that's
going to increase learning, but

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00:28:10,230 --> 00:28:12,870
also increased performance as
well. And when do we want to

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00:28:12,870 --> 00:28:17,910
avoid mistakes. Chapter Six is
about common misconceptions

448
00:28:17,910 --> 00:28:21,240
about learning and about growth
mindset that gets in the way of

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00:28:21,240 --> 00:28:25,770
growth. Chapter Seven is about a
framework called the growth

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00:28:25,770 --> 00:28:29,400
propeller, which is the five key
elements that drive growth that

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00:28:29,400 --> 00:28:32,970
any of us can work on in order
to become stronger learners and

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performance. And those are our
identity, our purpose, our

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00:28:37,200 --> 00:28:40,620
beliefs, our habits, and our
community. And so that's part

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00:28:40,620 --> 00:28:43,770
one of the book. Part two is
about teams and organizations.

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00:28:43,950 --> 00:28:47,760
So chapter eight is about
visions of a strong learning

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00:28:47,760 --> 00:28:51,600
organization with examples of
very, very strong learning and

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00:28:51,600 --> 00:28:55,050
performing organizations.
Chapters nine and 10 are about

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00:28:55,050 --> 00:29:00,750
teams, chapters, 11 and 12, are
about how to lead for growth to

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00:29:00,750 --> 00:29:04,170
leadership. And finally, the
third, the final part of the

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00:29:04,170 --> 00:29:08,790
book, chapter 13, is about the
performance zone, what can we do

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00:29:08,790 --> 00:29:11,970
in the performance zone in order
to perform at our best, and

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00:29:11,970 --> 00:29:16,080
chapter 14 is about how
overcoming the paradox changes

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00:29:16,080 --> 00:29:21,510
lives. So not only can we get to
better destinations, and to

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00:29:21,570 --> 00:29:25,740
improve and to increase our
results, but in in overcoming

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00:29:25,740 --> 00:29:28,890
the performance paradox, we also
change the process, right what

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00:29:29,010 --> 00:29:34,380
what the experience of life and
work feels like? Because we find

467
00:29:34,380 --> 00:29:37,560
more joy, we find more
happiness, we also experience

468
00:29:37,560 --> 00:29:41,250
less anxiety, less depression,
and we build deeper

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00:29:41,250 --> 00:29:43,800
relationships with each other
because we become more curious.

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00:29:43,860 --> 00:29:46,350
We're more supportive of one
another we learn about each

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00:29:46,350 --> 00:29:48,690
other's needs and perspectives.
We can learn more from each

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00:29:48,690 --> 00:29:52,950
other. And so we we change not
only this nation, but also the

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00:29:52,950 --> 00:29:55,050
process and the everyday life
that we live.

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00:29:56,130 --> 00:29:59,220
Eveline Oehrlich: Beautiful. I
cannot wait. I kind of wish it's

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00:29:59,220 --> 00:30:02,430
September. So I can't have it.
But then the year will be over.

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00:30:02,430 --> 00:30:06,780
So we'll we'll look forward to
it if anybody on the call or on

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00:30:06,780 --> 00:30:12,060
this listening into it is easily
preorder PL orderable add

478
00:30:12,060 --> 00:30:19,050
performance paradox.com Go there
and, and preorder it. So we have

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00:30:19,050 --> 00:30:22,560
come to the end, I have one more
question for you. What do you do

480
00:30:22,560 --> 00:30:25,320
for fun? Well, you

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00:30:25,320 --> 00:30:28,410
Eduardo Briceño: know, I feel so
grateful that from so many

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00:30:28,410 --> 00:30:31,290
things, I mean, the first thing
I do every morning is to express

483
00:30:31,290 --> 00:30:37,800
gratitude for so many things.
But I find most of my days like

484
00:30:37,800 --> 00:30:41,970
really fun. And I'm I'm very
privileged that way. But some of

485
00:30:41,970 --> 00:30:45,090
the things kind of outside of
work because I love my work, and

486
00:30:45,090 --> 00:30:47,880
I have fun in my work. But some
of the things I do outside of

487
00:30:47,880 --> 00:30:51,600
work is I've been playing more
and more tennis with my wife we

488
00:30:51,600 --> 00:30:55,380
played yesterday and the prior
day. And we're really enjoying

489
00:30:55,410 --> 00:30:58,260
kind of being playful and
challenging one another in the

490
00:30:58,260 --> 00:31:03,480
tennis court. I also travel a
lot for work, and my wife does

491
00:31:03,480 --> 00:31:06,930
too. So we like traveling with
each other and kind of when I

492
00:31:06,960 --> 00:31:10,260
when I'm in a place I take some
time to either visit a museum or

493
00:31:10,260 --> 00:31:12,900
see somebody there that I
haven't seen in a long time as

494
00:31:12,900 --> 00:31:16,230
something that that I enjoy
doing as well. But I love my

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00:31:16,230 --> 00:31:22,020
work. I love how I'm I'm you
know, in a way obsessed about

496
00:31:22,020 --> 00:31:25,560
it, and I like being obsessed
about it. So I'm privileged to

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00:31:25,590 --> 00:31:27,360
kind of have fun throughout the
day, every day.

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00:31:28,080 --> 00:31:30,660
Eveline Oehrlich: I can feel
that I can sense it through

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00:31:30,960 --> 00:31:34,170
through the through the lines of
communication with you. This has

500
00:31:34,170 --> 00:31:38,220
been absolutely wonderful. We
have been talking to Eduardo

501
00:31:38,220 --> 00:31:41,070
percent. Your Thank you,
Eduardo. This has been a very,

502
00:31:41,340 --> 00:31:45,360
very, very nice treat for our
listeners and for myself. Thanks

503
00:31:45,360 --> 00:31:48,990
again for joining me today on
humans of DevOps podcast.

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00:31:49,500 --> 00:31:50,940
Eduardo Briceño: Thank you,
Evelyn. It's great to speak with

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00:31:50,940 --> 00:31:51,210
you.

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00:31:52,740 --> 00:31:55,140
Eveline Oehrlich: Humans of
DevOps podcast is produced by

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00:31:55,140 --> 00:31:58,860
DevOps Institute. Our audio
production team includes Julia

508
00:31:58,860 --> 00:32:02,550
Papp and Brendan Leigh and
Daniel Schultz Newman, shout out

509
00:32:02,550 --> 00:32:07,410
to my teammates who make this
really great equate production.

510
00:32:07,920 --> 00:32:10,950
I'm humans of DevOps podcast
executive producer Evelyn

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00:32:10,950 --> 00:32:14,250
earlyish. If you would like to
join us on a podcast, please

512
00:32:14,250 --> 00:32:20,880
contact us at humans of DevOps
podcast at DevOps institute.com.

513
00:32:21,180 --> 00:32:24,930
And I said that this time
without really tripping up so I

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00:32:24,930 --> 00:32:26,910
remember literally talk to you
soon.

515
00:32:28,950 --> 00:32:31,050
Narrator: Thanks for listening
to this episode of the humans of

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00:32:31,050 --> 00:32:34,590
DevOps podcast. Don't forget to
join our global community to get

517
00:32:34,590 --> 00:32:37,950
access to even more great
resources like this. Until next

518
00:32:37,950 --> 00:32:41,430
time, remember, you are part of
something bigger than yourself.

519
00:32:41,700 --> 00:32:42,480
You belong