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Before we start, I just wanted to
let you know that you can become

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a paid subscriber of Lecker on
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You'll get access to exclusive content
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subscription really helps support Lecker.

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to find out more.

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This is Lecker, I'm Lucy Dearlove.

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Welcome to the Lecker Book Club.

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Every month I'll be picking
a newly released food related

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book and talking to the author
about the process of writing it.

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I'll also be cooking from the book.

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and writing about that on Substack and
Patreon, you can join me there as well.

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This month on the first edition
of the Lecker Book Club,

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Maria Bradford's Sweet Salone.

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I would say it's a book that is
full of amazing, delicious recipes.

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It's full of culture.

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It's full of stories about amazing people.

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It's full of things that you probably
I've never heard or known about, you

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know, the background, the history
and that of Sierra Leone, really.

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And it's full of ingredients
that will just be calling you.

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Say, cook me, cook me, cook me.

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Maria grew up in Sierra Leone and
moved to Kent, UK, in her late teens.

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Sweet Salone is the first English
language book of Sierra Leonean recipes.

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And in it, Maria wanted to share the
unique nature of the food in her home

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country, but also celebrate the country's
people, including her own family.

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But it wasn't necessarily a
smooth process writing the book,

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as you'll hear her talk about.

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We spoke about the culture shock Maria
experienced on arriving in the UK.

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What it was like encountering strawberries
and apples for the first time.

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But it was Maria's deep rooted curiosity
about all kinds of food that eventually

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led her on a path to training at Leith's
Culinary School and setting up her

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fine diner and catering business, Shwen
Shwen, a Krio phrase meaning fancy.

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It's this outlook and experience that
closely informs the recipes in the

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book, from traditional dishes learned
from her mother and grandmother.

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to her very own brand of Afrofusion.

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I met Maria in her publisher's
office a couple of weeks before

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publication and we sat down with a
copy of Sweet Salone in front of us.

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Obviously, Maria felt a huge
responsibility writing about Sierra

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Leonean food in an environment
where it hasn't really been

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widely written about before.

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But...

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It was also an extremely personal
experience writing this book that at

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times came almost too close for comfort.

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I'm always thinking, oh, am I going
to remember everything that I said?

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Well,

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I think it's fine

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if you don't.

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I hope I don't.

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There's a lot.

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Yeah, there's a lot.

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There's a lot of writing.

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And it's that thing when you're
writing, you're sending bits.

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By bit.

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Bit by bit.

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Bit by bit.

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And all of a sudden your bit
by bit turns into a book.

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Yeah, okay, so that's how it felt.

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Yeah.

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Right, okay.

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Because there's a lot of you
in this book, isn't there?

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Like a lot of you.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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And how did that feel, to
write that much of yourself?

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It's um, it's a bit difficult.

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Yeah.

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Writing about yourself.

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I do enjoy writing about other people.

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But not necessarily.

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Myself.

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I, you know, I don't mind writing about
my family and my grandmother and stuff.

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Because I feel like there's
always so much to say about them.

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But then when it comes to
you, you always feel like it's

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drawing that line, isn't it?

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Yeah.

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Where you don't come across
as me, me, me, me, me, almost.

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Right.

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But you're still kind
of telling your story.

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Yeah, and is there almost a sense that
you want to, like, protect that as well?

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Yeah, of course.

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Absolutely.

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Because, um, I'm, I'm, I've always
been, like, even on social media,

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I'm very protective of my personal
space and, um, and, um, what I share.

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Because I just feel like it's
very easy for people to just

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say, oh yeah, I know her.

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Yes!

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Yeah.

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And you just, like, you just want
to leave a little bit for yourself.

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But then all of a sudden,
it's all in a book.

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It's like, oh, this is where I was born.

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This is my date of birth.

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That was a bit hard.

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Because I'm just like,
they've got my full name.

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Nobody has, I've never
put any of my full name.

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Yeah.

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Like what's on my passport.

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And all of a sudden, my full name,
my date of birth, it's in the book.

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I'm like...

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So why did you choose to include it?

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Because you could have left that out.

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I could have, but I think

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it I could have left
that out, but, um, yeah.

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I don't know why I chose to include it.

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I didn't write it, I think...

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You know, I've always
been guided about that.

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But even in interviews, people do
push because I think people just

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feel like they need to know you.

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Yeah, that's so true.

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They want to know you,
they want to know you.

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And there's a lot of question about
childhood and um, and stuff like that.

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Yeah.

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So, yeah, before you know it, you're given
information that you don't want to give.

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People get you in a room and your
publishers you feel comfortable,

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yeah, go for your coffee.

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Yeah, that's really interesting.

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And before you know it, you're spilling,
you're telling them everything.

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Yeah.

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Find the details.

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Mother's maiden name..

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First pet.

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Do you think

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you could have written this book
without getting that close to yourself?

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No.

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Um, because, um, it's, it's really,
it's, it's like digging, digging deep,

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but, and, um, and also there's a lot
of positive obviously that I wanted to

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write about, um, when it comes to my
childhood, but it's also writing about

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reality and the reality comes from
writing and Going into other places

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and just writing about those things.

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Um, you know, trying to be
superhero for everybody.

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But you open up, there are people who
read that and it resonates with them.

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Especially when it comes to
like, things like immigration

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stories and stuff like that.

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You know, there are lots of
migrants, um, here in the UK

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and other parts of the world.

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And it's just like...

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I'm sure we all have similar stories
and similar feelings and, um, this

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book is very much written where you,
you're missing home, you're missing

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food, you're missing people and all of
that get blended into one and you find

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yourself in this new world, in this new
space and you're trying to find yourself.

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And how do you find yourself?

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You find yourself through food, through
the things which is so familiar,

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not finding that initially such a.

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A rude awakening, like, it's
just like, I'm in a new place.

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Yeah.

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And

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is it that's how it felt
when you first got here?

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It Yeah,

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it was, absolutely.

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It's not just like you're learning
about a new place, isn't it?

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You're also learning new food,
new cuisine, new ingredients.

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Yeah.

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Not necessarily as a
cook, but as an eater.

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Yeah, yeah.

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Somebody who just loves to eat.

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Somebody who's grown around food.

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Somebody who's grown around
lots of family members.

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I grew up in a house
where there's siblings.

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There's my mom.

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My grandmother, there's lots of
aunties, there's lots of uncles.

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Everything was surrounded about, around
food and everything was surrounded

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around, um, celebrating food.

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And all of a sudden, there are new
and exciting ingredients, of course.

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Like, I've never had strawberry,
I've never had blackberry, and that.

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So it's all new and exciting,
so you should be enjoying it.

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But at the same time, you're not able
to enjoy it because you're missing.

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You can't relate to it.

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Now I can relate to strawberry.

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You know, now I'm a Kentish
woman, so I can relate to it.

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You have to, it's the law.

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00:08:07,659 --> 00:08:09,159
Yeah, it's the law, exactly.

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Now I can relate to it, now it's
like, in the summer if I don't eat

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strawberry, I'm like, what's happening?

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You know, if I go away and there's
no, I'm sitting in Sierra Leone,

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I should be enjoying it, I'm like.

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I wish I was eating strawberries,
you know, but it's such a, it's

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such a strange thing, isn't it?

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00:08:24,875 --> 00:08:28,295
Yeah, and it's so interesting you talk
about an ingredient like strawberry like

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that because I think in this country
there's There's such a lens on like, foods

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that are quote unquote exotic, or like,
non native, which is kind of most of our

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foods, to be honest, because we import
so much, we don't really grow that much.

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Yeah.

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But then actually, like, I think it can
be really easy to forget for people who

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don't broaden their kind of horizons
in terms of what food they're reading

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about and people that they're...

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Reading that everything
is exotic to someone.

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00:08:53,105 --> 00:08:53,545
Yeah.

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00:08:53,735 --> 00:08:53,955
So.

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00:08:54,635 --> 00:08:55,055
Exactly.

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00:08:55,255 --> 00:08:55,615
Yeah.

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00:08:55,655 --> 00:08:56,425
Everything.

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00:08:56,495 --> 00:09:01,035
And I should say the berries
were like, even the apple.

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Right, right.

193
00:09:02,444 --> 00:09:03,085
Like apple.

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00:09:03,164 --> 00:09:03,384
Yeah.

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00:09:03,414 --> 00:09:06,005
We do have apple, but it's imported.

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00:09:06,194 --> 00:09:06,505
Yeah.

197
00:09:06,505 --> 00:09:06,704
Okay.

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00:09:06,724 --> 00:09:09,055
And um, yeah, it doesn't taste the same.

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00:09:09,300 --> 00:09:09,650
Yeah.

200
00:09:09,760 --> 00:09:13,210
And apple in Kent, it's quite crunchy.

201
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Yeah.

202
00:09:13,700 --> 00:09:15,050
It's so lovely.

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00:09:15,300 --> 00:09:18,630
And then, I never knew there
was so many varieties of apple.

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00:09:18,870 --> 00:09:19,470
So many.

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00:09:19,520 --> 00:09:22,810
I just thought there was either
pink or green apple, and that's it.

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00:09:23,050 --> 00:09:24,580
Because that's all I've seen.

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00:09:24,580 --> 00:09:24,850
Yeah.

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00:09:24,850 --> 00:09:26,920
So all of a sudden, there's
these different apples.

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00:09:27,329 --> 00:09:29,030
And then, the things that
are really familiar...

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00:09:29,474 --> 00:09:33,385
And when you do approach them,
like the papaya, the mango, the

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00:09:33,385 --> 00:09:36,594
exotic fruit, they taste horrible.

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00:09:37,395 --> 00:09:38,495
So it's like a

213
00:09:42,665 --> 00:09:43,089
twisted version of everything.

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00:09:43,089 --> 00:09:44,915
It's just like, what
the hell is happening?

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00:09:45,454 --> 00:09:51,085
It's like, all of a sudden, what I
know tastes disgusting and what I don't

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00:09:51,085 --> 00:09:52,645
know, the things that I don't know.

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00:09:52,735 --> 00:09:53,645
Everything is upside down.

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00:09:53,645 --> 00:09:56,165
The things that I don't know.

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00:09:56,390 --> 00:09:58,250
It has the most amazing taste ever.

220
00:09:58,790 --> 00:10:01,899
So it's so good.

221
00:10:01,900 --> 00:10:04,680
So you quickly start
learning about things.

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00:10:04,920 --> 00:10:06,020
Um, you start reading.

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00:10:06,020 --> 00:10:07,699
I've always loved reading anyway.

224
00:10:08,519 --> 00:10:13,180
So you quickly start typing
and googling or researching.

225
00:10:13,189 --> 00:10:15,329
Not really googling, there
wasn't that much googling.

226
00:10:16,050 --> 00:10:19,849
Researching and asking a lot of questions
about, and being really curious.

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00:10:19,849 --> 00:10:21,640
I've always been curious
about food anyway.

228
00:10:22,030 --> 00:10:23,380
So asking a lot of questions.

229
00:10:23,589 --> 00:10:26,660
But it's also weird when
uh, Teenage person is asking

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00:10:26,660 --> 00:10:28,459
someone why is strawberry?

231
00:10:29,699 --> 00:10:33,290
Yeah, you think how do you not know that?

232
00:10:33,300 --> 00:10:34,540
How do you not know that?

233
00:10:34,890 --> 00:10:38,570
And thinking, yeah, you,
you think of something.

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00:10:38,880 --> 00:10:39,560
No, I'm not.

235
00:10:39,610 --> 00:10:42,809
But just like, you wouldn't
know what guayavis and you

236
00:10:42,810 --> 00:10:43,730
wouldn't know what this is.

237
00:10:43,780 --> 00:10:44,050
Right.

238
00:10:44,050 --> 00:10:46,500
I'm just saying like,
yeah, what is strawberry?

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00:10:46,550 --> 00:10:47,050
Yeah.

240
00:10:47,220 --> 00:10:47,680
Yeah.

241
00:10:48,050 --> 00:10:49,059
And you're asking because
you want to learn.

242
00:10:49,060 --> 00:10:50,190
And you want to learn.

243
00:10:50,230 --> 00:10:51,030
Exactly.

244
00:10:51,040 --> 00:10:51,959
You want to learn.

245
00:10:52,020 --> 00:10:53,124
And you want to know.

246
00:10:53,665 --> 00:10:56,105
And you're thinking
these are all new stuff.

247
00:10:56,405 --> 00:11:00,045
But then again, you know, I always say
that's my superpower because I don't

248
00:11:00,045 --> 00:11:01,995
only know about all the exotic stuff.

249
00:11:02,374 --> 00:11:06,475
I also have new knowledge and new
power of knowing all this new stuff

250
00:11:06,874 --> 00:11:08,595
that a lot of people don't know.

251
00:11:09,025 --> 00:11:10,995
So yeah, you know, I'm the best.

252
00:11:11,005 --> 00:11:11,834
I know everything.

253
00:11:11,835 --> 00:11:19,715
I'm like my own Google Exactly So, you
know, you know everything so, you know

254
00:11:19,715 --> 00:11:24,725
everything that you've grown up around
Yeah, all these amazing exotic ingredients

255
00:11:24,935 --> 00:11:30,225
we also know all this new stuff that you
keep picking so everything keep being

256
00:11:30,225 --> 00:11:35,024
exciting and Everything is exciting and
it's only when you find that comfort

257
00:11:35,114 --> 00:11:38,754
and that balance and you start settling
because it takes some time to do that.

258
00:11:39,124 --> 00:11:42,964
So you take that balance, you settle
and once you're settled and then you

259
00:11:42,964 --> 00:11:47,804
start thinking, okay, and that takes a
really long time, I'm not going to lie.

260
00:11:47,805 --> 00:11:50,144
And then you start learning.

261
00:11:50,884 --> 00:11:51,295
It's a process.

262
00:11:51,295 --> 00:11:51,955
It's a process.

263
00:11:51,995 --> 00:11:53,615
It's absolutely a process.

264
00:11:53,675 --> 00:11:56,495
And I think it's much
better when you're younger.

265
00:11:56,574 --> 00:11:57,064
Yeah.

266
00:11:57,095 --> 00:11:58,135
Than when you're older.

267
00:11:58,185 --> 00:11:58,425
Yeah.

268
00:11:58,444 --> 00:12:01,364
So I always feel terrible for people.

269
00:12:01,729 --> 00:12:07,680
In their twenties, thirties, forties,
coming to a new place because, um, I

270
00:12:07,680 --> 00:12:12,700
know it must be really difficult because
you're settled in your way and probably

271
00:12:12,700 --> 00:12:16,939
people had jobs, like I have uncles and
aunties and people who are travelling

272
00:12:16,970 --> 00:12:21,979
and they've had jobs before, they
had a life, they had a home, they had

273
00:12:22,050 --> 00:12:27,020
respect, they had people who looked up
to them and all of a sudden they find

274
00:12:27,020 --> 00:12:31,460
themselves in a place where they're
nobody and it's quite a lot to process.

275
00:12:31,945 --> 00:12:32,335
Yeah.

276
00:12:32,660 --> 00:12:32,949
Yeah.

277
00:12:32,949 --> 00:12:33,660
For an adult.

278
00:12:34,350 --> 00:12:35,600
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

279
00:12:35,800 --> 00:12:36,199
Yeah.

280
00:12:36,920 --> 00:12:41,579
So you were a teenager when you came
here and you've stayed here since then.

281
00:12:41,589 --> 00:12:41,860
Yeah.

282
00:12:42,390 --> 00:12:47,120
So all of these kind of Kentish
ingredients and other ingredients of

283
00:12:47,129 --> 00:12:51,670
other counties of the UK, when did you
start cooking with those ingredients?

284
00:12:52,060 --> 00:12:56,569
My very first job that I had
was at an Italian restaurant.

285
00:12:56,600 --> 00:12:57,439
Oh, really?

286
00:12:57,470 --> 00:12:58,430
Very first.

287
00:12:58,500 --> 00:13:01,930
I was, um, at a college in, um, Tombridge.

288
00:13:02,239 --> 00:13:04,939
And then I had a job at West
Smalling, where I lived.

289
00:13:04,970 --> 00:13:08,989
It was an Italian, little, small
Italian high street restaurant.

290
00:13:09,120 --> 00:13:14,250
And it was the very first place that I
really started, like, with ingredients

291
00:13:14,280 --> 00:13:16,290
and seeing more different stuff.

292
00:13:16,650 --> 00:13:21,590
How amazing, simplicity of cooking
and using different ingredients.

293
00:13:21,840 --> 00:13:25,579
I was just there to wash dishes, but of
course I was asking a lot of questions and

294
00:13:25,579 --> 00:13:27,390
just seeing, you know, what they're doing.

295
00:13:27,430 --> 00:13:28,399
Why are you putting this?

296
00:13:28,439 --> 00:13:29,420
And why are you doing that?

297
00:13:29,460 --> 00:13:30,610
And all of that.

298
00:13:30,899 --> 00:13:33,059
You know, some of them were
very open to talk about it.

299
00:13:33,489 --> 00:13:36,399
Some of them were like, get out of
my way, go face what you're doing.

300
00:13:36,749 --> 00:13:40,509
But I was doing the washing and because
I was so interested as well, I was um,

301
00:13:40,630 --> 00:13:42,479
helping as well with washing vegetables.

302
00:13:44,125 --> 00:13:46,605
Yeah, I'm prepping vegetables,
washing vegetables and, you

303
00:13:46,605 --> 00:13:47,835
know, taking supplies in.

304
00:13:48,155 --> 00:13:52,144
So you get to see all of that, but then
I had to leave because I went to uni.

305
00:13:54,155 --> 00:13:58,944
But that kind of love for cooking
and at home, I was still, you know,

306
00:13:58,944 --> 00:14:02,974
all of a sudden I did find like the,
the thing that I was doing more of

307
00:14:03,014 --> 00:14:05,984
cooking was peanut soup, which is a.

308
00:14:06,905 --> 00:14:09,715
We used a lot of peanuts
to do like stews and soups.

309
00:14:09,985 --> 00:14:12,985
So peanut soup, I could
find peanut butter easy.

310
00:14:13,275 --> 00:14:14,825
And then I had to find the right chili.

311
00:14:15,664 --> 00:14:15,934
Yeah.

312
00:14:15,935 --> 00:14:17,015
It was only bad side.

313
00:14:17,015 --> 00:14:18,405
We don't really use bad side.

314
00:14:18,645 --> 00:14:22,145
So to get the heat, in fact, I started
with the bigger ones, the bigger red

315
00:14:22,145 --> 00:14:23,934
ones thinking that, Oh, that must be hot.

316
00:14:24,284 --> 00:14:24,894
No, it's not.

317
00:14:25,274 --> 00:14:28,674
And then you move slower
and then it's like, Oh.

318
00:14:30,115 --> 00:14:32,865
And then you try it out and it's
like, too much seeds, not the same.

319
00:14:33,205 --> 00:14:35,035
Still, like, there's something missing.

320
00:14:35,975 --> 00:14:38,175
But it's a little bit closer to that.

321
00:14:38,254 --> 00:14:41,225
And then, you know, back then,
supermarkets didn't even sell

322
00:14:41,225 --> 00:14:43,054
Scotch bonnet chili at all.

323
00:14:43,374 --> 00:14:46,375
So you start moving, moving,
and then you're like, Okay, I'll

324
00:14:46,375 --> 00:14:48,455
settle in with the, you know, this.

325
00:14:50,285 --> 00:14:51,015
It's fine.

326
00:14:51,115 --> 00:14:52,295
I'll make do with it.

327
00:14:53,365 --> 00:14:56,525
It will do for now, but then it's comfort.

328
00:14:56,604 --> 00:15:00,124
And so every time you cook that
peanuts, I cook that peanuts, introduce

329
00:15:00,124 --> 00:15:05,425
it to friends and new friends and
that their eyes just pop open and

330
00:15:05,425 --> 00:15:07,854
they're so excited by this new flavor.

331
00:15:07,875 --> 00:15:10,614
Ooh, I didn't even know you
can do peanuts, peanut soup.

332
00:15:10,915 --> 00:15:14,074
I didn't know you can put peanuts
in a sauce with chicken and

333
00:15:14,074 --> 00:15:15,704
spices and put rice with it.

334
00:15:15,895 --> 00:15:16,204
And.

335
00:15:16,439 --> 00:15:18,859
It tastes this amazing and
they kept calling it curry.

336
00:15:18,859 --> 00:15:25,550
I'm like, it's got nothing to do with
curry is, but yeah, but it's not curry.

337
00:15:25,550 --> 00:15:26,810
I said, we don't call it that.

338
00:15:26,869 --> 00:15:27,839
We call it soup.

339
00:15:28,420 --> 00:15:32,569
And of course, soup in the European
context is very different to us because

340
00:15:32,569 --> 00:15:34,740
soup is not necessarily what we drink.

341
00:15:34,740 --> 00:15:36,030
We don't have soup culture.

342
00:15:36,030 --> 00:15:39,160
So when you say soup, it's something
that you eat with something else.

343
00:15:39,500 --> 00:15:39,900
Yes.

344
00:15:40,510 --> 00:15:40,650
Okay.

345
00:15:40,650 --> 00:15:41,969
So it's navigating.

346
00:15:42,310 --> 00:15:44,909
I swear, it's like, do you
want to come out for soup?

347
00:15:46,115 --> 00:15:46,445
What?

348
00:15:46,985 --> 00:15:50,325
Yeah, and I put a bowl of tomato
soup in front of me and I'm

349
00:15:50,325 --> 00:15:52,020
like, uh, Where's the rest of it?

350
00:15:52,020 --> 00:15:53,585
Where's the rest of it?

351
00:15:53,585 --> 00:15:54,635
Is this going with rice?

352
00:15:57,225 --> 00:15:58,744
Oh no, you just drink it.

353
00:15:58,985 --> 00:15:59,125
Oh.

354
00:15:59,655 --> 00:16:01,495
That doesn't make sense to me.

355
00:16:01,675 --> 00:16:02,155
That's not food.

356
00:16:02,155 --> 00:16:02,704
You just drink

357
00:16:07,005 --> 00:16:07,105
it?

358
00:16:07,105 --> 00:16:08,075
It's a very fair comment.

359
00:16:09,315 --> 00:16:12,225
And whilst I was at uni
also, I was cooking a lot.

360
00:16:12,435 --> 00:16:12,655
Yeah.

361
00:16:14,230 --> 00:16:18,630
You know, experimenting with,
um, ingredients and that.

362
00:16:19,050 --> 00:16:21,800
And then I found Peckham.

363
00:16:22,550 --> 00:16:22,710
Ah.

364
00:16:23,479 --> 00:16:26,510
Because I was living in Kent, so I
didn't know there was Peckham existed.

365
00:16:26,929 --> 00:16:29,740
So I was more coming to London,
when we come to London site view,

366
00:16:29,740 --> 00:16:32,640
and it was more central London
and stuff, and then found Peckham.

367
00:16:32,990 --> 00:16:39,620
The day that I found Peckham, oh my
God, it was like, How come nobody, this

368
00:16:39,620 --> 00:16:44,900
has been paid, nobody thought to tell
me there was a place where I can come.

369
00:16:45,230 --> 00:16:49,050
And the insane thing was I got
off the train at Peckham and

370
00:16:49,050 --> 00:16:50,949
there was people speaking Krio.

371
00:16:51,550 --> 00:16:53,030
Wow, okay.

372
00:16:53,260 --> 00:16:54,830
Was that the first time
that you'd heard Krio?

373
00:16:54,830 --> 00:16:55,050
The first

374
00:16:55,290 --> 00:16:56,399
time, exactly.

375
00:16:56,429 --> 00:17:02,420
Do you know, like, it was just
like, whoa, this is like, it was

376
00:17:02,990 --> 00:17:04,490
just such an amazing feeling.

377
00:17:04,490 --> 00:17:05,970
I could have cried, seriously.

378
00:17:05,980 --> 00:17:06,779
It was just such...

379
00:17:07,210 --> 00:17:11,390
An amazing feeling, the hustle, the
bustle, it just felt like I was in

380
00:17:11,390 --> 00:17:16,790
Sierra Leone and it just felt home and
I'd found my new place and I could find

381
00:17:16,800 --> 00:17:18,779
ingredients that I could relate to.

382
00:17:19,029 --> 00:17:22,970
There was plantain, there was cassava,
there was this, I had so many bags, you

383
00:17:22,970 --> 00:17:27,710
know, I wanted to buy the whole pack and
take it with me and it was so exciting.

384
00:17:27,849 --> 00:17:31,380
Of course, then I started doing a
bit of cooking, but not necessarily.

385
00:17:31,715 --> 00:17:34,145
Professionally, which
is for friends and home.

386
00:17:34,565 --> 00:17:37,195
I started cooking professionally 2017.

387
00:17:37,425 --> 00:17:40,594
Okay, and so what led you to
that part of your journey?

388
00:17:40,594 --> 00:17:42,485
What sort of sparked
you to take that step?

389
00:17:43,585 --> 00:17:48,565
It was a lot of compliments and a
lot of, um, bussing around by family

390
00:17:48,565 --> 00:17:52,665
members because, um, I was always
making stuff and they were all like,

391
00:17:52,704 --> 00:17:54,035
Oh, you know, you should do this.

392
00:17:54,035 --> 00:17:54,625
You should do this.

393
00:17:54,945 --> 00:17:57,945
And then my cousin got married
and she wanted me to do the food.

394
00:17:58,515 --> 00:18:01,124
And then I did the food for
her wedding for 60 people.

395
00:18:01,145 --> 00:18:01,565
Wow.

396
00:18:01,625 --> 00:18:04,085
And it was so amazing.

397
00:18:04,650 --> 00:18:05,730
Well, from the guests.

398
00:18:05,770 --> 00:18:10,220
Um, everybody kept asking people
that I didn't know, asking for my

399
00:18:10,220 --> 00:18:12,600
card, asking how they can contact me.

400
00:18:12,600 --> 00:18:13,490
I was like, what?

401
00:18:14,350 --> 00:18:14,520
Really?

402
00:18:14,660 --> 00:18:15,110
Yeah.

403
00:18:15,220 --> 00:18:15,720
Okay.

404
00:18:15,750 --> 00:18:15,970
Yeah.

405
00:18:15,970 --> 00:18:20,209
And then 2017, I started my first
Instagram post of her wedding.

406
00:18:20,619 --> 00:18:24,679
Just posted a little something of my
cousin's wedding talking about it.

407
00:18:24,679 --> 00:18:28,820
And I was actually really shocked
by how many people were liking.

408
00:18:29,095 --> 00:18:29,835
What I was doing.

409
00:18:30,235 --> 00:18:34,405
Then, of course, that encourages you to
do more, to experiment a bit more, but

410
00:18:34,415 --> 00:18:38,615
I was still working because I was doing
accounting and finance, so I still had

411
00:18:38,615 --> 00:18:43,984
a job that I was doing, doing that bit
by bit and just posting and they just.

412
00:18:44,580 --> 00:18:46,000
more and more excitement.

413
00:18:46,050 --> 00:18:49,689
And then I thought, you know, my husband
was like, maybe, you know, these drinks

414
00:18:49,689 --> 00:18:52,460
that people have been telling you
is really nice, the chili sauce and

415
00:18:52,460 --> 00:18:56,299
all of that, maybe you should bottle
it and we do try farmer's market.

416
00:18:57,080 --> 00:18:57,859
So I did.

417
00:18:57,919 --> 00:19:01,469
And farmer's market again was a
massive shocker and eye opener.

418
00:19:01,520 --> 00:19:02,939
We just did a taster.

419
00:19:03,570 --> 00:19:06,280
I ran out that day of farmer's markets.

420
00:19:06,280 --> 00:19:09,700
I had lots of drinks and I ran
out, I ran out of all the chili

421
00:19:09,700 --> 00:19:11,079
sauce, ran out of all the drinks.

422
00:19:11,080 --> 00:19:11,780
That's amazing.

423
00:19:11,830 --> 00:19:17,120
And yeah, and just, uh, The interest
and the hunger for people to learn

424
00:19:17,130 --> 00:19:21,950
about new stuff as well was just, and I
didn't know British people liked chili

425
00:19:22,019 --> 00:19:23,850
that much until that farmer's market.

426
00:19:23,850 --> 00:19:24,800
They were putting it on everything.

427
00:19:26,340 --> 00:19:27,650
So I was just like, okay.

428
00:19:27,719 --> 00:19:31,049
We might not sell any
chilis here, but we love it.

429
00:19:31,049 --> 00:19:31,899
Love it, yeah.

430
00:19:31,900 --> 00:19:33,709
So I was just like, I can, okay.

431
00:19:33,709 --> 00:19:34,679
So, yeah.

432
00:19:35,245 --> 00:19:40,335
Started from there, but it's, again,
still, you know, I had this thing where I,

433
00:19:40,805 --> 00:19:46,134
maybe it's African in me, but I just like,
I've studied for everything that called

434
00:19:46,135 --> 00:19:49,075
myself, you know, I've gone to school,
gone and had a degree, blah, blah, blah.

435
00:19:49,075 --> 00:19:53,815
So I just felt like, you know, I
needed to dig deeper into this food.

436
00:19:53,875 --> 00:19:55,674
I know a lot about food.

437
00:19:55,675 --> 00:20:00,404
I know a lot about ingredients and I cook
a lot from recipes and that, but I wanted

438
00:20:00,405 --> 00:20:03,335
to go to culinary school just to dig more.

439
00:20:03,345 --> 00:20:04,635
So I went to Leiths.

440
00:20:04,865 --> 00:20:05,435
Wow.

441
00:20:05,515 --> 00:20:05,865
Okay.

442
00:20:06,280 --> 00:20:07,710
And what was that like?

443
00:20:08,410 --> 00:20:09,410
Very exciting.

444
00:20:09,430 --> 00:20:09,730
Yeah.

445
00:20:09,730 --> 00:20:12,990
I always thought I was academic
until I got to later and I actually

446
00:20:13,000 --> 00:20:17,530
realised I was made for cooking
because everything just kind of, it

447
00:20:17,530 --> 00:20:20,010
was like a puzzle fitting in perfectly.

448
00:20:20,179 --> 00:20:22,969
That must have been such a kind
of lovely realisation to be

449
00:20:22,970 --> 00:20:24,020
like, this is where I need to be.

450
00:20:24,810 --> 00:20:28,370
It was just, uh, the best thing
and I remember him saying like,

451
00:20:28,370 --> 00:20:29,990
it's going to be stressful.

452
00:20:30,140 --> 00:20:32,760
Um, and then I never
once found it stressful.

453
00:20:32,970 --> 00:20:33,640
Wow.

454
00:20:33,670 --> 00:20:35,810
The only thing I found stressful
was getting there because I

455
00:20:35,810 --> 00:20:37,470
live in Kent and it's in London.

456
00:20:37,500 --> 00:20:40,990
But once I'm there, I never
ever found it stressful.

457
00:20:40,999 --> 00:20:43,639
For me, I felt like it was a
place where I could go and relax.

458
00:20:43,640 --> 00:20:45,100
That's how it felt for me.

459
00:20:45,170 --> 00:20:45,390
It was just.

460
00:20:46,160 --> 00:20:46,620
Things just.

461
00:20:47,940 --> 00:20:51,710
Yeah, and so what, what does
the training at Leith's involve?

462
00:20:51,710 --> 00:20:53,610
It's very classic, classic
French, I should say.

463
00:20:53,610 --> 00:20:56,340
Yes, it's very classic,
very classic French.

464
00:20:56,349 --> 00:21:02,440
So, well, from there, before I went I knew
very much, like, it was really important

465
00:21:02,460 --> 00:21:04,180
to me to showcase Sierra Leonean food.

466
00:21:04,929 --> 00:21:06,050
I'd written lots of...

467
00:21:06,305 --> 00:21:09,705
Letters to different restaurants
and different African chefs before

468
00:21:09,705 --> 00:21:13,125
I went there, because I really
wanted to gain an experience in an

469
00:21:13,125 --> 00:21:15,105
African kitchen to see how it's done.

470
00:21:15,555 --> 00:21:20,144
But I couldn't really get anyone to
come back and say, yes, we'll have you.

471
00:21:20,575 --> 00:21:22,704
So, um, which is why I went there.

472
00:21:23,244 --> 00:21:27,075
It made sense to me and it still
makes sense to me because, um.

473
00:21:27,820 --> 00:21:33,029
I needed to kind of polish on, I
was making mayo, I didn't know the

474
00:21:33,080 --> 00:21:34,959
science behind it, for example.

475
00:21:35,209 --> 00:21:38,499
I was doing things that I didn't
really know the science behind, or

476
00:21:38,689 --> 00:21:40,469
if they go wrong, how you correct it.

477
00:21:40,879 --> 00:21:43,219
Um, and the reasoning for that.

478
00:21:43,649 --> 00:21:46,489
I had a knife skills, you know,
of cutting potato leaf with my

479
00:21:46,499 --> 00:21:49,959
hand and doing it perfectly in a
traditional Sierra Leonean way.

480
00:21:50,250 --> 00:21:55,060
But, um, I didn't have a European knife
skills that was for chef, um, you know.

481
00:21:55,320 --> 00:21:56,429
So, it was good.

482
00:21:56,590 --> 00:21:59,790
So I went there and pick up
those skills and just blend it

483
00:21:59,790 --> 00:22:01,850
in with what I knew already.

484
00:22:02,860 --> 00:22:07,249
There also, I realized that there
was a massive space for what I do.

485
00:22:07,300 --> 00:22:07,600
Yeah.

486
00:22:07,810 --> 00:22:13,210
Because, um, there were lots of
times where I really wanted to have

487
00:22:13,210 --> 00:22:17,750
a conversation with tutors about
my food and what I know as food.

488
00:22:18,470 --> 00:22:21,850
It was easy for them to have
conversation with the Italian, the

489
00:22:21,850 --> 00:22:25,860
Spanish and that, but not as easy for
them to interact with me with food.

490
00:22:25,890 --> 00:22:26,930
That was very much.

491
00:22:27,265 --> 00:22:31,775
My culture, my food, food that will,
just like a baby would know, for example.

492
00:22:32,125 --> 00:22:36,055
So, that was a little bit frustrating,
I'm not going to lie, because um,

493
00:22:36,544 --> 00:22:39,245
Um, you're in a space where you're
meant to be learning about food.

494
00:22:39,524 --> 00:22:44,475
So of course, you want everybody involved
in that space to know a bit more about

495
00:22:44,475 --> 00:22:46,205
people coming from different angles.

496
00:22:46,215 --> 00:22:46,915
Yeah.

497
00:22:46,924 --> 00:22:51,684
But there was that shortcomings, which,
which I've spoken to them about, um,

498
00:22:51,685 --> 00:22:56,284
and that, there was that, which was
missing, but it still didn't take

499
00:22:56,284 --> 00:22:58,185
away the fact that I learnt a lot.

500
00:22:58,264 --> 00:22:58,725
Yeah, of course.

501
00:22:58,764 --> 00:23:01,719
And um, I learnt a lot and I learnt that.

502
00:23:02,000 --> 00:23:06,500
Also, there's room for what I do, there's
space for what I do, and I think it's

503
00:23:06,540 --> 00:23:10,700
very, very important that I am in this
space, because people need to know

504
00:23:10,710 --> 00:23:12,910
that there are other people across.

505
00:23:13,745 --> 00:23:19,415
the barrier of food, this food
chain or hierarchy that's been done.

506
00:23:19,675 --> 00:23:22,785
There are other people on the
other side of that, and their

507
00:23:22,785 --> 00:23:24,354
voices need to be heard too.

508
00:23:24,445 --> 00:23:24,895
Absolutely.

509
00:23:24,965 --> 00:23:28,375
And, um, so, yeah, it just made
me want to push even further.

510
00:23:28,725 --> 00:23:32,215
Yeah, it's interesting you use the example
of the sort of European knife skills

511
00:23:32,244 --> 00:23:37,325
versus your knife skills, because I think
there can be a tendency, um, in, in the

512
00:23:37,365 --> 00:23:40,415
UK certainly, and then I think in sort
of Europe more widely, that there is...

513
00:23:41,010 --> 00:23:46,209
The, the kind of like fine dining
experience is one thing, and it involves

514
00:23:46,219 --> 00:23:50,799
one set of skills, one set of an outlook
on food, an approach to ingredients,

515
00:23:51,209 --> 00:23:56,429
and I think it's so exciting to have
people like you coming in and saying

516
00:23:56,429 --> 00:23:59,810
like, actually, no, this isn't the
way it should be or needs to be.

517
00:24:00,129 --> 00:24:00,979
Absolutely not.

518
00:24:01,070 --> 00:24:04,379
Yeah, my knife skills might
make you want to look away,

519
00:24:04,629 --> 00:24:06,149
but it's still my knife skills.

520
00:24:06,189 --> 00:24:10,879
Like, I've learned it from my mother,
my grandmother, my great grandmother.

521
00:24:10,879 --> 00:24:16,319
The rest of my family have been using that
knife skills for generation, generation.

522
00:24:16,320 --> 00:24:20,250
Like, you know, we've had a food
identity and a food culture that

523
00:24:20,250 --> 00:24:22,100
runs over thousands of years.

524
00:24:22,600 --> 00:24:26,679
And, um, we might be eating with our
hands and stuff like that, but there's

525
00:24:26,689 --> 00:24:29,230
still a very strong food etiquette.

526
00:24:30,265 --> 00:24:30,385
Yeah.

527
00:24:30,385 --> 00:24:33,835
You know, when my husband is English,
if I take him to Sierra Leone, I'm

528
00:24:33,835 --> 00:24:38,085
constantly saying, you can't stick your
left hand into food and eat with it.

529
00:24:38,085 --> 00:24:39,005
You can't do this.

530
00:24:39,005 --> 00:24:39,645
You can't do this.

531
00:24:39,855 --> 00:24:43,145
So we have our own etiquette
around dining and food.

532
00:24:43,174 --> 00:24:49,164
So, and to just dismiss that as not
important or not part, not on the table,

533
00:24:49,165 --> 00:24:51,365
I think it's frankly quite rude, actually.

534
00:24:51,365 --> 00:24:51,385
Yeah, totally.

535
00:24:51,385 --> 00:24:51,735
Yeah.

536
00:24:51,735 --> 00:24:55,915
So, it's um, about a space that accepts.

537
00:24:56,325 --> 00:25:00,095
that, you know, everyone's
food is equally important.

538
00:25:00,435 --> 00:25:03,525
You might not know about my food
culture and my food history and

539
00:25:03,525 --> 00:25:05,485
that, but doesn't dismiss it.

540
00:25:05,485 --> 00:25:05,755
Yeah.

541
00:25:05,805 --> 00:25:10,945
You know, and me being, to be
honest, I feel like, you know, me

542
00:25:10,955 --> 00:25:15,554
or us, um, wanting to learn about
other people's cultural skill.

543
00:25:15,995 --> 00:25:18,395
It makes us, I don't know.

544
00:25:18,730 --> 00:25:24,040
The bigger people, if you like, because,
um, I'm, I'm taking an interest in

545
00:25:24,040 --> 00:25:28,850
learning and I'm hoping that, you know,
other chefs who have had those similar

546
00:25:28,850 --> 00:25:33,760
trainings that I've had want to learn a
bit more about my cuisine and not just

547
00:25:33,790 --> 00:25:38,290
jump on, because it's not a food trend,
not just jump on it, but also like have

548
00:25:38,645 --> 00:25:42,004
There's curiosity enough to learn about
it, to learn about the ingredients,

549
00:25:42,004 --> 00:25:47,095
to know what those cultural references
mean to us and why we're doing A, B, C,

550
00:25:47,095 --> 00:25:51,884
and Z, because that's what I'm doing,
you know, I'm not just stepping into

551
00:25:51,885 --> 00:25:55,365
this food world and saying I'm gonna,
I don't want to do French cuisine, so I

552
00:25:55,365 --> 00:25:59,544
didn't have any reason to go and learn
about French classics, but I thought

553
00:25:59,554 --> 00:26:03,165
it was important in my journey to learn
about that if I'm going to be doing

554
00:26:03,395 --> 00:26:05,365
mixing flavors and mixing techniques.

555
00:26:06,745 --> 00:26:08,225
Yeah, that makes sense.

556
00:26:08,385 --> 00:26:09,265
It makes sense.

557
00:26:09,385 --> 00:26:09,815
Yeah.

558
00:26:09,875 --> 00:26:13,565
I mean, it's almost kind of a shame
in a way that we feel like that's

559
00:26:13,595 --> 00:26:18,255
the kind of pinnacle of, like, chef
culture, but I guess that's maybe

560
00:26:18,255 --> 00:26:19,494
an argument for a different time.

561
00:26:20,214 --> 00:26:23,920
So, I mean, I have to be honest,
I think reading the book, really

562
00:26:23,940 --> 00:26:27,490
revealed to me my own lack of
knowledge about Sierra Leonean food.

563
00:26:27,670 --> 00:26:30,450
It's not a food I know
anything about, really, and...

564
00:26:30,780 --> 00:26:31,600
It's new, so...

565
00:26:31,610 --> 00:26:32,960
Well, I mean, it's not new.

566
00:26:33,540 --> 00:26:33,700
Well,

567
00:26:34,870 --> 00:26:35,290
yeah, so...

568
00:26:35,290 --> 00:26:36,270
It's new for me.

569
00:26:37,989 --> 00:26:41,629
But I, was that a lot of pressure
for you writing the book?

570
00:26:41,630 --> 00:26:44,620
Because it feels like I kind of
had a look and it didn't really

571
00:26:44,620 --> 00:26:46,140
feel like there have been...

572
00:26:46,540 --> 00:26:46,820
No.

573
00:26:46,870 --> 00:26:47,780
many, if any...

574
00:26:48,100 --> 00:26:48,500
There's not.

575
00:26:48,860 --> 00:26:49,820
Right, yeah, that's what I thought.

576
00:26:49,820 --> 00:26:50,910
So this is the first...

577
00:26:51,000 --> 00:26:55,380
Sierra Leonean book published
by an international publisher.

578
00:26:55,390 --> 00:26:55,790
Wow.

579
00:26:56,080 --> 00:26:58,020
So there was lots of pressure.

580
00:26:58,050 --> 00:26:58,500
Yeah.

581
00:26:58,540 --> 00:27:02,680
Because you're almost like setting
the standards for what, and you're

582
00:27:02,680 --> 00:27:04,700
hoping somebody beats it all the time.

583
00:27:04,969 --> 00:27:07,790
I'm hoping somebody does something
that's even more amazing.

584
00:27:08,160 --> 00:27:10,240
But you want to do so much justice.

585
00:27:10,250 --> 00:27:13,990
So there's lots of pressure and
lots of research that goes into it.

586
00:27:14,010 --> 00:27:17,570
And we don't have a culture of
people writing recipes down.

587
00:27:17,629 --> 00:27:22,460
Right, I was going to ask you have
to earn it in African culture.

588
00:27:22,460 --> 00:27:26,900
You really have to earn it for your mum
to reveal what goes into that sauce.

589
00:27:26,910 --> 00:27:29,050
She feels like you need to
be in the kitchen, burn your

590
00:27:29,050 --> 00:27:30,950
hand a little bit, um, a lot.

591
00:27:31,810 --> 00:27:36,770
Maybe have a few slices on your arm and
really earn your rights to those recipes.

592
00:27:36,810 --> 00:27:40,590
And then once you've earned those
rights and you can say, I can cook,

593
00:27:40,889 --> 00:27:43,399
you know, it's, it's just that culture.

594
00:27:43,409 --> 00:27:44,389
And why not?

595
00:27:44,449 --> 00:27:48,020
You know, it's, it's so important
to us because quite a lot of

596
00:27:48,040 --> 00:27:49,899
time our food is so tied to.

597
00:27:50,620 --> 00:27:52,290
Heritage and stuff like that.

598
00:27:52,620 --> 00:27:55,300
So, of course, so they feel
like you need to earn that.

599
00:27:55,690 --> 00:28:00,630
So it's difficult navigating, because even
asking, like asking my mum, she'll tell

600
00:28:00,630 --> 00:28:02,130
me the ingredients of some of the stuff.

601
00:28:02,130 --> 00:28:03,940
I'm like, so why do you put this in this?

602
00:28:03,999 --> 00:28:05,459
Oh, you should know all of this.

603
00:28:05,490 --> 00:28:08,060
And she gets quite
frustrated about it too.

604
00:28:08,449 --> 00:28:10,610
And it's just like, she just
feel like, why are you asking?

605
00:28:10,700 --> 00:28:11,169
Are you an idiot?

606
00:28:11,170 --> 00:28:12,240
You should know,

607
00:28:12,660 --> 00:28:14,050
you know, you're a grown woman.

608
00:28:14,450 --> 00:28:16,240
Why are you, I'm like, I'm doing a book.

609
00:28:16,500 --> 00:28:20,835
I read to, I need to make sure
it's accurate and stuff like that.

610
00:28:20,835 --> 00:28:24,190
She's the person that you need to ask
because the information doesn't exist.

611
00:28:24,199 --> 00:28:25,359
You know, there's no Googling.

612
00:28:25,519 --> 00:28:25,699
Exactly.

613
00:28:26,629 --> 00:28:27,570
There's no Googling.

614
00:28:27,590 --> 00:28:28,060
Yeah.

615
00:28:28,069 --> 00:28:29,760
So there's lots of that.

616
00:28:29,770 --> 00:28:34,305
So there's lots of research, lots of
navigating, lots of um, Also trusting

617
00:28:34,544 --> 00:28:38,544
your own instincts with some of the
stuff and reasoning behind it, you know,

618
00:28:38,764 --> 00:28:42,175
there's a reason why they do everything
So the reasoning it and it's through

619
00:28:42,175 --> 00:28:46,455
this process as well that you learn you
learn to appreciate your own culture

620
00:28:46,564 --> 00:28:51,504
as well and the depth of flavor and how
we get depth of flavor from our food

621
00:28:52,084 --> 00:28:57,004
and You know how important ingredients
is because you grew up in a culture

622
00:28:57,004 --> 00:29:05,615
where people just think what you're
eating It's basically a baseline food.

623
00:29:05,995 --> 00:29:07,845
There's no integrity behind it.

624
00:29:07,895 --> 00:29:09,705
There's no culture behind it.

625
00:29:10,055 --> 00:29:13,525
And then, you know, you don't
believe it, of course, but then

626
00:29:13,665 --> 00:29:15,615
it does take its toll sometimes.

627
00:29:15,644 --> 00:29:17,975
And then you start digging into
your own food, into your own

628
00:29:17,975 --> 00:29:19,125
culture, and then you realize.

629
00:29:20,130 --> 00:29:20,830
Wow.

630
00:29:20,970 --> 00:29:25,430
You know, my ancestors were genius,
geniuses because, um, there's a

631
00:29:25,430 --> 00:29:28,800
lot of thought, lots of effort that
gone into everything that they've

632
00:29:28,800 --> 00:29:32,910
been doing and why they put A and B
together and why it works so well.

633
00:29:33,139 --> 00:29:37,380
Why is it that when you put uguri and
palm oil together and it's boiling and you

634
00:29:37,380 --> 00:29:39,630
can be anywhere, it just takes you home.

635
00:29:39,970 --> 00:29:45,800
You know, it's such an amazing thing
to realize all of a sudden, but writing

636
00:29:45,800 --> 00:29:47,860
this cookbook really, really made me.

637
00:29:48,940 --> 00:29:51,330
And, um, made me feel extremely proud.

638
00:29:51,330 --> 00:29:54,850
I've always been proud of being Sierra
Leonean and an African, but it's,

639
00:29:54,850 --> 00:30:01,870
um, it's, it really just take you
one step into, you know, closer to

640
00:30:01,870 --> 00:30:04,020
the people who had come before you.

641
00:30:04,150 --> 00:30:04,560
Yeah.

642
00:30:04,610 --> 00:30:05,150
Yeah.

643
00:30:05,269 --> 00:30:05,510
I know.

644
00:30:05,630 --> 00:30:05,650
Yeah.

645
00:30:05,919 --> 00:30:06,638
I know exactly what you mean.

646
00:30:06,638 --> 00:30:09,720
I think it's almost like, it
feels so incredible to think that

647
00:30:09,720 --> 00:30:11,925
somebody made that discovery.

648
00:30:12,455 --> 00:30:13,845
So I think you mentioned, is it ogiri?

649
00:30:14,075 --> 00:30:14,425
Yeah.

650
00:30:14,435 --> 00:30:16,415
And that's fermented sesame, right?

651
00:30:16,415 --> 00:30:17,775
And just, you know, who, who did that?

652
00:30:17,775 --> 00:30:20,494
Yeah, exactly, exactly, you know?

653
00:30:20,785 --> 00:30:23,005
And cassava leaf, you know, cassava leaf.

654
00:30:23,034 --> 00:30:26,885
And there, there are also like things
that if you eat it raw, it will kill you.

655
00:30:27,265 --> 00:30:28,605
Who had thought, you know?

656
00:30:28,605 --> 00:30:29,474
Who paid the price?

657
00:30:29,474 --> 00:30:30,435
Who paid the price?

658
00:30:30,505 --> 00:30:34,465
You know, how many people paid the price
to say don't eat it in large numbers?

659
00:30:34,935 --> 00:30:38,105
If you eat it in large numbers, you'll
get, so a smaller number is fine,

660
00:30:38,455 --> 00:30:39,925
you'll have probably stomach cramps.

661
00:30:40,255 --> 00:30:44,015
But if you eat it in large numbers,
probably, yeah, yeah, don't sit there

662
00:30:44,025 --> 00:30:48,555
and put a big bowl of raw cassava leaf
and eat it, it tastes horrible anyway.

663
00:30:49,025 --> 00:30:52,625
But, that's the first
time, who thought of that?

664
00:30:52,635 --> 00:30:53,715
Talking about ingredients.

665
00:30:54,410 --> 00:30:59,120
Was that something sort of that you
had to try quite hard to navigate

666
00:30:59,150 --> 00:31:02,729
writing a book that is about
Sierra Leonean food in the UK?

667
00:31:02,790 --> 00:31:07,160
Was, was there a balance between like
wanting to make sure people use the right

668
00:31:07,160 --> 00:31:10,799
ingredients and being aware there's not
always in, you know, particularly in

669
00:31:10,799 --> 00:31:13,920
places outside of major cities, it's
not always the easiest to get hold of?

670
00:31:14,440 --> 00:31:19,120
I think, which is why, um, I've
just tried very, very hard.

671
00:31:19,120 --> 00:31:22,625
So with the traditional stuff, I've
tried really hard to stay Stick to

672
00:31:22,715 --> 00:31:27,325
it as original as it can be without
compromising it because I feel

673
00:31:27,325 --> 00:31:31,395
like if you need to taste cerulean,
you really want to taste cerulean.

674
00:31:31,445 --> 00:31:33,045
I don't want to compromise that.

675
00:31:33,475 --> 00:31:36,304
And I just feel like we're
in a world where you can find

676
00:31:36,305 --> 00:31:38,984
things online quite easily.

677
00:31:38,995 --> 00:31:42,705
So if you do a bit of research,
you will find it, but I've

678
00:31:42,715 --> 00:31:44,605
also made quite a huge effort.

679
00:31:44,745 --> 00:31:50,215
to have a repository on my website so
people have access to information where

680
00:31:50,215 --> 00:31:54,985
they can get these ingredients, the
strange ingredients that they cannot find.

681
00:31:55,045 --> 00:31:56,275
Um, they can find it.

682
00:31:56,705 --> 00:32:01,855
And also, you know, without being
rude, I'm just like, well, I love.

683
00:32:02,240 --> 00:32:03,160
Japanese food.

684
00:32:03,240 --> 00:32:06,060
My daughter is hugely into Asian food.

685
00:32:06,430 --> 00:32:09,890
When we want to cook those Asian
foods, we sit on the internet and

686
00:32:09,890 --> 00:32:13,680
we research it and we find where
we can get the ingredients online.

687
00:32:13,790 --> 00:32:13,950
Yeah.

688
00:32:13,950 --> 00:32:16,350
And we find it and we get
it and we cook from it.

689
00:32:16,420 --> 00:32:16,740
Yeah.

690
00:32:16,750 --> 00:32:18,100
So there's no excuse.

691
00:32:18,149 --> 00:32:19,009
There's no excuse.

692
00:32:19,200 --> 00:32:21,080
So the people that really, really want to.

693
00:32:21,650 --> 00:32:22,520
They will find it.

694
00:32:22,780 --> 00:32:25,800
The people that don't want to
dig that deep, they are there for

695
00:32:25,800 --> 00:32:28,630
fusion stuff that they can start
with, the street food, you know.

696
00:32:28,780 --> 00:32:31,669
Saint Sprays, I just
realized, have been selling.

697
00:32:32,029 --> 00:32:34,150
I went there, yes, it was two days ago.

698
00:32:34,489 --> 00:32:39,740
I bought cassava, I bought plantain, I
bought red palm oil, I bought the cocoyam.

699
00:32:39,960 --> 00:32:42,270
So, supermarkets are stocking up.

700
00:32:42,340 --> 00:32:42,590
Yeah.

701
00:32:42,590 --> 00:32:45,750
And the more books and the more
people that realize that they can get.

702
00:32:46,570 --> 00:32:49,510
You can cook quite a lot of
these ingredients from just

703
00:32:49,860 --> 00:32:51,630
things from the supermarkets.

704
00:32:51,660 --> 00:32:54,910
Yeah, and I think that's, it's
nice to kind of give people the

705
00:32:54,910 --> 00:32:56,459
encouragement to look for it.

706
00:32:56,460 --> 00:32:56,680
Yeah.

707
00:32:56,700 --> 00:32:59,550
You know, I think the note about, you
know, if you do go to, in the book

708
00:32:59,550 --> 00:33:04,149
about, if you do go into an African
grocery store, like, make an effort

709
00:33:04,150 --> 00:33:06,820
to talk to people and ask them because
they will be happy to help you.

710
00:33:06,820 --> 00:33:07,470
Oh, they will be.

711
00:33:07,510 --> 00:33:10,170
They'll be really, really
happy to help because they want

712
00:33:10,220 --> 00:33:11,670
people to walk into their shop.

713
00:33:11,720 --> 00:33:12,100
Of course.

714
00:33:12,130 --> 00:33:13,949
They want people to be
interested in their food.

715
00:33:13,950 --> 00:33:14,190
food.

716
00:33:14,230 --> 00:33:16,670
They want people to ask them
questions about their food because,

717
00:33:17,020 --> 00:33:21,290
um, you know, it helps sell their
goods, you know, and it helps.

718
00:33:21,310 --> 00:33:24,330
It's a nice feeling to know that
you're in the UK where you're in a

719
00:33:24,330 --> 00:33:27,940
minority, but there's somebody who is
also interested in what you're eating

720
00:33:27,980 --> 00:33:29,530
and not just the other way around.

721
00:33:29,610 --> 00:33:30,280
Exactly.

722
00:33:30,309 --> 00:33:31,300
You know, so.

723
00:33:31,300 --> 00:33:31,540
Exactly.

724
00:33:31,540 --> 00:33:31,554
Yeah.

725
00:33:31,735 --> 00:33:32,135
Yeah.

726
00:33:32,935 --> 00:33:37,895
So, are there any recipes in the book
that are particularly meaningful for you?

727
00:33:37,895 --> 00:33:39,235
Would you like to talk me through?

728
00:33:39,755 --> 00:33:40,885
You can pick a few

729
00:33:41,214 --> 00:33:41,535
if it's easier.

730
00:33:41,535 --> 00:33:41,595
Yes.

731
00:33:43,205 --> 00:33:43,965
That's a tough one.

732
00:33:43,965 --> 00:33:44,695
It's the worst question

733
00:33:44,964 --> 00:33:45,125
I know.

734
00:33:45,134 --> 00:33:45,265
It is.

735
00:33:45,855 --> 00:33:46,195
Yeah.

736
00:33:46,775 --> 00:33:49,605
So, I will start with cassava leaf first.

737
00:33:49,685 --> 00:33:50,005
Okay.

738
00:33:50,015 --> 00:33:50,055
Great.

739
00:33:50,055 --> 00:33:52,795
And I think just because that one.

740
00:33:53,325 --> 00:33:53,835
Oh, wow.

741
00:33:53,845 --> 00:33:55,135
It's our national dish.

742
00:33:55,215 --> 00:33:55,715
Okay.

743
00:33:55,715 --> 00:33:56,154
Okay.

744
00:33:56,155 --> 00:33:59,925
So, cassava leaf is like our
national dish and it's just.

745
00:34:00,185 --> 00:34:02,995
So special to us, um, Sierra Leoneans.

746
00:34:03,655 --> 00:34:09,215
And I have here also, um,
the fish, fish bowl stew.

747
00:34:09,825 --> 00:34:16,995
And this one is specially, you know,
important because the days where

748
00:34:17,044 --> 00:34:20,395
my mom will be like, Oh, you know,
I don't have enough money today.

749
00:34:20,395 --> 00:34:22,305
So we're just going to cook simple.

750
00:34:22,805 --> 00:34:25,285
That's when we'll usually
cook this, the sauce.

751
00:34:25,665 --> 00:34:28,045
And she thought it was something that.

752
00:34:29,630 --> 00:34:31,050
just, Oh, I don't have money.

753
00:34:31,050 --> 00:34:31,600
I'm broke.

754
00:34:31,640 --> 00:34:34,170
But it was actually like our favorites.

755
00:34:34,260 --> 00:34:38,410
Like it was like my favorite thing,
the fishbowl stew that she did, like

756
00:34:38,420 --> 00:34:41,770
lots of efforts and stuff goes into it.

757
00:34:42,020 --> 00:34:46,129
But it's just such a, you
know, such a delicious stuff.

758
00:34:46,169 --> 00:34:48,859
And for me, it just also just shows.

759
00:34:49,395 --> 00:34:52,415
the magic and the resilience
of Sierra Leonean women.

760
00:34:52,475 --> 00:34:52,785
Yeah.

761
00:34:52,785 --> 00:34:57,405
And how, you know, you don't need
lots and lots of, um, expensive

762
00:34:57,405 --> 00:35:00,025
ingredients to make an amazing dish.

763
00:35:00,505 --> 00:35:05,495
And, um, and also how we, we
really, we're not wasteful.

764
00:35:06,190 --> 00:35:07,020
We use everything.

765
00:35:07,910 --> 00:35:08,240
Yeah.

766
00:35:08,240 --> 00:35:08,340
Yeah.

767
00:35:08,670 --> 00:35:09,010
Yeah.

768
00:35:09,040 --> 00:35:09,110
Yeah.

769
00:35:09,320 --> 00:35:11,240
So we're not, we're not wasteful at all.

770
00:35:11,540 --> 00:35:13,280
So yeah, so fishbowl stew.

771
00:35:14,340 --> 00:35:18,200
And then, you know, the Afrofusion
thing, you'll be hard to choose because,

772
00:35:18,200 --> 00:35:24,880
um, the Afrofusion part for me is
where I feel like innovation and this

773
00:35:24,910 --> 00:35:27,620
excitement about taking an ingredient.

774
00:35:28,025 --> 00:35:32,665
So, Sereleinians and non Sierra Sierra
can both have the joy of discovering.

775
00:35:33,135 --> 00:35:37,095
You know, it's like, you know, so
Sierra Sierra know the traditional

776
00:35:37,125 --> 00:35:40,235
bit, but the Afrofusion bit,
there's things that they don't know.

777
00:35:40,245 --> 00:35:41,425
They just know plantain.

778
00:35:41,735 --> 00:35:42,175
Yeah.

779
00:35:42,214 --> 00:35:46,745
So, turning plantain into a hand
pie and putting feta into it.

780
00:35:47,050 --> 00:35:47,920
That's exciting.

781
00:35:47,940 --> 00:35:49,290
And that always gets exciting.

782
00:35:49,290 --> 00:35:52,280
Cassava, doing the croquette
with it and adding things like

783
00:35:52,290 --> 00:35:54,700
pancetta and manchego cheese to it.

784
00:35:54,980 --> 00:35:55,620
It's exciting.

785
00:35:55,990 --> 00:35:58,110
Adding leeks exciting for me.

786
00:35:58,110 --> 00:35:58,350
Yeah.

787
00:35:58,350 --> 00:35:59,409
It's exciting for them.

788
00:35:59,619 --> 00:36:00,959
So it's a new discovery.

789
00:36:01,190 --> 00:36:05,160
So it's that thing where non
Sierra Leoneans are like.

790
00:36:05,440 --> 00:36:08,260
Thinking, oh, croquet,
I know what croquet is.

791
00:36:08,470 --> 00:36:13,180
But eating it with cassava in it
and discovering new ingredients

792
00:36:13,180 --> 00:36:15,820
and new stature food that can
be used to make those things.

793
00:36:16,060 --> 00:36:18,760
But also Sierra Leoneans is
very much aware of cassava

794
00:36:18,765 --> 00:36:20,230
and know what taste it is.

795
00:36:20,320 --> 00:36:20,620
Yeah.

796
00:36:20,620 --> 00:36:24,870
And knowing what panchetta is as well and
putting those together and, and that so.

797
00:36:25,225 --> 00:36:25,865
That's exciting.

798
00:36:25,865 --> 00:36:29,345
So it's almost like it's a
mutual discovery for both sides.

799
00:36:29,785 --> 00:36:33,045
Um, that's a really, I've never
quite thought of fusion like that

800
00:36:33,045 --> 00:36:35,675
before because I think sometimes,
I mean there's a lot of bad fusion.

801
00:36:35,705 --> 00:36:36,085
I know.

802
00:36:36,174 --> 00:36:36,675
Let's be honest.

803
00:36:37,504 --> 00:36:39,975
But actually that's a really
beautiful way of putting it and I've

804
00:36:39,975 --> 00:36:42,845
never thought about it from that
perspective and it makes so much sense.

805
00:36:42,895 --> 00:36:43,295
Yeah.

806
00:36:43,524 --> 00:36:44,155
Like I love that.

807
00:36:46,755 --> 00:36:50,945
Yeah, it's like this one, for example,
this, this is um, So this is the mackerel?

808
00:36:50,965 --> 00:36:51,625
Mackerel.

809
00:36:51,885 --> 00:36:52,420
So beautiful.

810
00:36:52,420 --> 00:36:54,255
So the sauce there is hibiscus.

811
00:36:54,305 --> 00:36:54,805
Oh wow.

812
00:36:54,815 --> 00:36:58,934
Yeah, so hibiscus petals in Sierra Leone,
we have two different hibiscus, like

813
00:36:58,935 --> 00:37:00,845
we have the white ones and the red one.

814
00:37:00,904 --> 00:37:01,204
Okay.

815
00:37:01,244 --> 00:37:05,695
The white one we use like in
sauces, uh, savoury dishes.

816
00:37:06,045 --> 00:37:09,585
The red one we use mainly for drinks
because, you know, we don't have

817
00:37:09,585 --> 00:37:10,555
a dessert culture necessarily.

818
00:37:10,815 --> 00:37:12,325
Yeah, I was very interested by that.

819
00:37:12,325 --> 00:37:12,574
Yeah.

820
00:37:12,574 --> 00:37:13,024
Yeah.

821
00:37:13,240 --> 00:37:13,380
Yeah.

822
00:37:13,380 --> 00:37:14,870
When you eat, you eat fresh fruits.

823
00:37:14,880 --> 00:37:16,190
That's your lot.

824
00:37:19,060 --> 00:37:19,460
Yeah.

825
00:37:19,990 --> 00:37:25,850
So we make drinks for this, but creating
this dish where we do cure fish, we do

826
00:37:25,850 --> 00:37:30,230
smoke fish, but we don't necessarily
smoke fish or cure it to eat like that.

827
00:37:30,240 --> 00:37:34,410
We usually cure it with
salt to you would say.

828
00:37:39,430 --> 00:37:42,850
But it's taking very traditional
elements and sometimes even traditional

829
00:37:42,880 --> 00:37:47,350
cooking methods and curing and doing
it like this where it looks European.

830
00:37:47,500 --> 00:37:47,710
Yeah.

831
00:37:47,710 --> 00:37:51,150
And um, so it's both a new discovery
for Sierra Leoneans and non Sierra

832
00:37:51,150 --> 00:37:52,580
Leoneans because, Absolutely.

833
00:37:52,859 --> 00:37:59,060
You know, it's um, Sierra Leoneans aren't
used to eating hibiscus in this way.

834
00:37:59,080 --> 00:37:59,180
Yeah.

835
00:37:59,490 --> 00:38:01,770
And it's the same way like
Europeans don't know probably what.

836
00:38:02,495 --> 00:38:04,055
that you can eat hibiscus like that.

837
00:38:04,055 --> 00:38:06,025
A lot of people are
familiar with hibiscus tea.

838
00:38:06,635 --> 00:38:07,735
Yeah, and that's it.

839
00:38:07,735 --> 00:38:08,415
And that's it,

840
00:38:08,415 --> 00:38:08,775
yeah.

841
00:38:08,865 --> 00:38:11,625
I loved what you said about getting
off the train at Peckham Rye and

842
00:38:11,625 --> 00:38:14,165
hearing Krio spoken because I
wanted to ask you about language.

843
00:38:14,175 --> 00:38:16,495
So you speak three languages,
English, Krio, and is it Mende?

844
00:38:16,495 --> 00:38:17,774
Mende, yeah.

845
00:38:18,114 --> 00:38:19,105
How was it?

846
00:38:19,420 --> 00:38:23,440
Writing the book in one of those
languages, especially because you're

847
00:38:23,500 --> 00:38:26,510
saying that Sierra Leone Sierra
Leone doesn't have a necessarily

848
00:38:26,540 --> 00:38:28,230
like a huge written recipe culture.

849
00:38:29,000 --> 00:38:32,279
So there's almost like a double
translation, you're maybe translating

850
00:38:32,280 --> 00:38:36,769
from Krio or Mende, but then also
translating from non written to written.

851
00:38:37,129 --> 00:38:40,342
Did it feel like that?

852
00:38:40,342 --> 00:38:42,940
Well, we have like about
18 different languages.

853
00:38:42,940 --> 00:38:42,949
Right.

854
00:38:42,950 --> 00:38:43,330
Right.

855
00:38:43,340 --> 00:38:46,140
We also, like all my, like.

856
00:38:46,870 --> 00:38:51,260
It's, it's terrible that I went to,
it's actually terrible that I went

857
00:38:51,260 --> 00:38:54,680
to school in Sierra Leone, did all
my formative years in Sierra Leone

858
00:38:54,680 --> 00:38:56,370
but all my education was in English.

859
00:38:56,559 --> 00:38:58,130
Right, okay, okay.

860
00:38:58,140 --> 00:39:03,005
So, it was only when I left actually,
I think it was A couple of years

861
00:39:03,005 --> 00:39:06,985
after I left, I'd introduced learning
traditional languages at school.

862
00:39:06,995 --> 00:39:07,625
That's such a shame.

863
00:39:07,675 --> 00:39:08,785
Which is such a shame.

864
00:39:08,855 --> 00:39:15,464
And, um, so all my language and, uh, and
people widely speak, um, Krio as well.

865
00:39:15,685 --> 00:39:19,195
But in some of, like, the really
traditional recipes, the names and that.

866
00:39:19,245 --> 00:39:19,555
Yeah.

867
00:39:19,575 --> 00:39:24,525
Trying to translate that name, um, which
is mainly in Mende because my mother's.

868
00:39:25,635 --> 00:39:29,145
So she will call it that particular
name, but you might speak to somebody

869
00:39:29,145 --> 00:39:33,395
else in a different region that
calls it completely different.

870
00:39:33,845 --> 00:39:38,104
But yeah, my only saving grace is
when it comes to those leafy things.

871
00:39:38,104 --> 00:39:40,515
And so Lillian's can
chase me about that later.

872
00:39:40,895 --> 00:39:44,669
Like those leafy greens, like my
mother's tribe is like the best at it.

873
00:39:44,990 --> 00:39:46,320
Right, so you've got the authority.

874
00:39:46,320 --> 00:39:47,360
So I've got the authority.

875
00:39:47,710 --> 00:39:51,010
So when it comes to like how it's
cooked, um, like, you know, we're

876
00:39:51,010 --> 00:39:53,999
the best at cooking those leafy
greens and that, like the cassava

877
00:39:54,000 --> 00:39:55,509
leaf, the potato leaves and that.

878
00:39:55,679 --> 00:39:57,710
You want to eat it from
somebody who is Mende.

879
00:39:57,809 --> 00:39:58,779
Okay, okay.

880
00:39:58,780 --> 00:40:00,229
So yeah, you can call it what you like.

881
00:40:04,110 --> 00:40:04,130
Yeah.

882
00:40:04,130 --> 00:40:07,790
But we've got names for it, and I've tried
to put some of the names, um, in there,

883
00:40:07,800 --> 00:40:11,720
like, but I've put more like the Krio
names, which is cassava, we call cassada.

884
00:40:12,000 --> 00:40:13,210
Okay, okay.

885
00:40:13,210 --> 00:40:13,219
Yeah.

886
00:40:13,220 --> 00:40:14,030
So, yeah.

887
00:40:14,040 --> 00:40:15,350
So that's, that's the creoname.

888
00:40:15,370 --> 00:40:15,720
Yeah.

889
00:40:16,330 --> 00:40:19,460
And, um, jute leaves, like,
my husband usually jokes like

890
00:40:19,460 --> 00:40:20,640
we like to double things.

891
00:40:20,650 --> 00:40:23,010
Because um, jute leaves we call crin crin.

892
00:40:23,660 --> 00:40:24,020
Yeah.

893
00:40:24,020 --> 00:40:24,406
That's nice.

894
00:40:24,406 --> 00:40:26,170
Like, I don't know why we've pluraled it.

895
00:40:26,260 --> 00:40:26,450
Yeah?

896
00:40:26,589 --> 00:40:26,799
Why not?

897
00:40:26,799 --> 00:40:30,200
Because usually with plural you
use like the double thing, like

898
00:40:30,210 --> 00:40:31,869
sand, we call it sand sand.

899
00:40:32,050 --> 00:40:32,160
Oh,

900
00:40:32,810 --> 00:40:33,110
okay.

901
00:40:33,110 --> 00:40:35,800
So instead of adding an S,
you might do, yeah, no, I

902
00:40:35,960 --> 00:40:36,320
really like that.

903
00:40:36,730 --> 00:40:37,230
That's great.

904
00:40:37,970 --> 00:40:39,470
San San?

905
00:40:39,470 --> 00:40:40,139
Yeah, it's San San.

906
00:40:40,140 --> 00:40:40,430
Yeah, great.

907
00:40:40,430 --> 00:40:43,130
Makes sense to me.

908
00:40:44,010 --> 00:40:44,400
It's more than

909
00:40:44,400 --> 00:40:44,700
one.

910
00:40:47,830 --> 00:40:48,900
Yeah, um.

911
00:40:48,909 --> 00:40:50,909
Walking we say waka waka.

912
00:40:50,909 --> 00:40:51,230
Oh, yeah.

913
00:40:54,379 --> 00:40:54,830
I love it.

914
00:40:55,870 --> 00:40:57,100
Yeah, why just give you one?

915
00:40:57,270 --> 00:40:57,839
Give you a double.

916
00:41:02,330 --> 00:41:05,800
You say in the book that you
found it really hard to write.

917
00:41:05,800 --> 00:41:06,020
Yeah.

918
00:41:06,050 --> 00:41:09,020
Was that just because you found it
difficult to write about yourself or

919
00:41:09,020 --> 00:41:10,780
was it the actual process of writing?

920
00:41:10,790 --> 00:41:12,530
That is the actual process of writing.

921
00:41:12,530 --> 00:41:13,340
Yeah, I mean it's hard.

922
00:41:13,630 --> 00:41:17,709
It is very hard because for me I feel
like writing involves like really

923
00:41:17,759 --> 00:41:21,960
almost like forgetting everything
that's happening outside and sitting

924
00:41:21,960 --> 00:41:23,690
down and focusing on that one.

925
00:41:24,030 --> 00:41:25,040
thing that you're doing.

926
00:41:25,070 --> 00:41:25,510
Yeah.

927
00:41:25,620 --> 00:41:29,490
And my brain doesn't
necessarily work like that.

928
00:41:29,520 --> 00:41:29,770
Yeah.

929
00:41:29,770 --> 00:41:29,930
Okay.

930
00:41:29,960 --> 00:41:33,790
You know, I want to be, I'm more
excited because I'll be lying in

931
00:41:33,790 --> 00:41:35,319
bed and I'm thinking about recipes.

932
00:41:35,320 --> 00:41:38,640
I've tasted something somewhere
and I'm thinking, Ooh, I can

933
00:41:38,640 --> 00:41:39,690
put this and this together.

934
00:41:39,690 --> 00:41:42,780
I wake up in the morning and I'm
thinking I need to go to the supermarket.

935
00:41:42,780 --> 00:41:46,020
So I need to call Becky who
supplies vegetable and say,

936
00:41:46,020 --> 00:41:47,310
can I have this, this and this?

937
00:41:47,320 --> 00:41:51,060
And I want to be in the kitchen making
notes as well as trying things out.

938
00:41:51,070 --> 00:41:52,109
And sometimes we try.

939
00:41:52,310 --> 00:41:56,050
One million times failed, but
I like that process because

940
00:41:56,060 --> 00:41:57,590
it means I'm doing something.

941
00:41:57,650 --> 00:42:02,269
And, um, I mean, I'm in that space
of excitement where it's creative.

942
00:42:02,349 --> 00:42:04,590
Um, and that writing is so different.

943
00:42:04,630 --> 00:42:08,120
It's, it's just like, and it's not
something that I've done before.

944
00:42:08,120 --> 00:42:10,940
The last time I wrote anything
like this was a dissertation.

945
00:42:11,199 --> 00:42:11,499
Wow.

946
00:42:13,009 --> 00:42:14,919
So really in at the deep
end with writing a book.

947
00:42:15,069 --> 00:42:15,589
Exactly.

948
00:42:16,010 --> 00:42:20,300
So I do write with Instagram and
that, but it's always like fun stuff

949
00:42:20,620 --> 00:42:22,410
and there's no structure to it.

950
00:42:22,990 --> 00:42:27,249
And I think it's more like the structure
parts of this as well, because you

951
00:42:27,250 --> 00:42:29,740
can't just Right, right, right, right.

952
00:42:29,750 --> 00:42:35,730
You know, you send it to Sarah
and she's like, maybe, maybe we

953
00:42:35,730 --> 00:42:37,230
should talk about it this way.

954
00:42:40,370 --> 00:42:40,450
Okay.

955
00:42:40,540 --> 00:42:41,390
And was that you?

956
00:42:41,390 --> 00:42:42,010
Oh God, yeah.

957
00:42:42,330 --> 00:42:42,770
It is.

958
00:42:42,820 --> 00:42:47,220
Like I had like amazing, two
amazing people working with me.

959
00:42:47,220 --> 00:42:49,579
I had Sarah and I had Susan as well.

960
00:42:49,789 --> 00:42:54,590
And they're both like, very detailed, um,
individuals which work for me because I

961
00:42:54,590 --> 00:42:57,520
really like to know and planning as well.

962
00:42:57,540 --> 00:42:59,410
You know, I like to
know, I plan everything.

963
00:42:59,590 --> 00:43:03,150
I like to know what I'm doing today,
tomorrow, and so on and so forth and that.

964
00:43:03,580 --> 00:43:07,490
And I prefer talking to people
rather than sitting down and

965
00:43:07,510 --> 00:43:08,940
emailing or writing to them.

966
00:43:09,150 --> 00:43:12,460
So that part I found really hard
because once they've read over

967
00:43:12,470 --> 00:43:16,080
your stuff, they have to send it
back all in massive writing thing.

968
00:43:16,080 --> 00:43:19,369
And then you have to read it, read it
and sit down where I just want to pick

969
00:43:19,369 --> 00:43:22,300
the phone and just say, let's talk
about this and why I'm not changing it.

970
00:43:22,550 --> 00:43:23,549
And why I'm keeping that.

971
00:43:23,840 --> 00:43:26,669
And now you have to document everything.

972
00:43:26,929 --> 00:43:28,439
So those processes, I just.

973
00:43:28,805 --> 00:43:33,345
Like, it's just not, it's hard
to navigate and that, but I just

974
00:43:33,345 --> 00:43:34,795
felt it was really important.

975
00:43:34,825 --> 00:43:39,575
It's a new skills that I never thought
I had as well, you know, um, cause I

976
00:43:39,584 --> 00:43:45,335
wouldn't have called myself a writer at
all, you know, and even now, like, it's

977
00:43:45,345 --> 00:43:47,054
hard to think of myself as an author.

978
00:43:47,055 --> 00:43:49,425
I'm a chancer who writes books.

979
00:43:52,765 --> 00:43:52,905
Quote.

980
00:43:53,065 --> 00:43:53,455
Yeah.

981
00:43:53,455 --> 00:43:57,739
And you know, obviously
they weren't published.

982
00:43:57,740 --> 00:44:01,010
See other Sierra Leonian author you could
turn to for kind of inspiration book.

983
00:44:01,010 --> 00:44:01,250
Exactly.

984
00:44:01,250 --> 00:44:05,210
Were there any other books that you
read, like either that came out recently

985
00:44:05,210 --> 00:44:09,170
or that came out a long time ago
that inspired you or kind of helped

986
00:44:09,175 --> 00:44:10,580
you see what this book might be?

987
00:44:10,730 --> 00:44:14,150
Yeah, so there are Sierra
Leonians who have done like

988
00:44:14,155 --> 00:44:15,440
self self-publishing things.

989
00:44:15,470 --> 00:44:15,740
Okay.

990
00:44:15,740 --> 00:44:17,510
Where they've done like cookery books.

991
00:44:17,510 --> 00:44:17,690
Oh great.

992
00:44:17,690 --> 00:44:18,470
Um, where.

993
00:44:18,845 --> 00:44:21,805
I've bought, I've gone on Amazon
and had a look at their work

994
00:44:21,805 --> 00:44:22,885
and seen what they've done.

995
00:44:22,885 --> 00:44:25,365
But these are like really, really, I
remember I was speaking to my mom and

996
00:44:25,365 --> 00:44:28,835
she was like, Oh, it's so and so, she
went to YWCA and she wrote a book.

997
00:44:28,835 --> 00:44:33,765
So it's looking at those and the things
that, not necessarily the stories,

998
00:44:33,765 --> 00:44:35,745
but the recipes that they've written.

999
00:44:36,024 --> 00:44:39,915
And, um, some, some of it I look at and I
go, okay, some of it I don't necessarily.

1000
00:44:39,935 --> 00:44:41,465
Necessarily agree with.

1001
00:44:41,495 --> 00:44:41,675
Yeah.

1002
00:44:41,705 --> 00:44:43,705
And, and that some of it makes sense.

1003
00:44:43,705 --> 00:44:47,365
Some of it didn't make sense to me
at all, and some of it's a completely

1004
00:44:47,365 --> 00:44:52,555
different style of cooking as well
from what I grew up with, so, yeah.

1005
00:44:52,705 --> 00:44:52,995
Yeah.

1006
00:44:52,995 --> 00:44:53,275
Okay.

1007
00:44:53,275 --> 00:44:53,555
Of course.

1008
00:44:53,825 --> 00:44:54,115
Yeah.

1009
00:44:54,120 --> 00:44:54,225
Yeah.

1010
00:44:54,435 --> 00:44:58,245
So, but I would say quite a lot of
the reference in terms of recipes

1011
00:44:58,245 --> 00:45:01,605
for the traditional, I think it all
came from my mom and my grandmother

1012
00:45:01,605 --> 00:45:03,765
because, um, they're the best.

1013
00:45:04,060 --> 00:45:06,430
at doing those dishes that I know.

1014
00:45:06,930 --> 00:45:12,220
In terms of, um, recipe book, I'm
a massive fan of, um, Rick Stein.

1015
00:45:12,470 --> 00:45:12,880
Really?

1016
00:45:12,970 --> 00:45:13,340
Okay.

1017
00:45:13,640 --> 00:45:18,299
And I like books that dig into culture
and not just talking about food.

1018
00:45:18,720 --> 00:45:21,180
I like books that want to.

1019
00:45:21,545 --> 00:45:26,315
know a bit background about the people
and the food that they eat and give you

1020
00:45:26,315 --> 00:45:32,415
a context so but I didn't really focus
focus on on books because I had a really

1021
00:45:32,415 --> 00:45:37,520
very clear idea also like I really wanted
to make it Not just about the food and I

1022
00:45:37,530 --> 00:45:41,480
really wanted to focus heavily on Sierra
Leone And I said because there's not

1023
00:45:41,480 --> 00:45:47,430
really that it's quite hard like it's
almost like you're starting from zero Yeah

1024
00:45:47,810 --> 00:45:52,310
Yeah, completely and because at the
heart of it is the trip that you made.

1025
00:45:52,330 --> 00:45:58,749
Yeah, absolutely Yeah, massive
massive massive and I have a very

1026
00:45:58,799 --> 00:46:02,685
clear idea about photos as well
that I wanted and stuff like that.

1027
00:46:02,925 --> 00:46:07,195
So, and the good news is I had
Kodjo who kind of gave me a lot

1028
00:46:07,195 --> 00:46:09,155
of control in places like that.

1029
00:46:11,294 --> 00:46:15,354
Sometimes I just find, you know, when it
comes to cookbook, it's quite similar.

1030
00:46:15,475 --> 00:46:16,035
Yeah.

1031
00:46:16,155 --> 00:46:16,355
Yeah.

1032
00:46:16,355 --> 00:46:20,265
There's a lot of similarities, not
necessarily in a bad way, but I

1033
00:46:20,265 --> 00:46:23,405
also know that this is a new cuisine
that people don't know about.

1034
00:46:23,655 --> 00:46:28,705
And, um, it was very important for me
that the style of the photo represents me.

1035
00:46:29,055 --> 00:46:29,315
Yeah.

1036
00:46:29,345 --> 00:46:32,905
And, um, and the style of
the photo is very simple.

1037
00:46:33,125 --> 00:46:33,325
Yeah.

1038
00:46:33,325 --> 00:46:35,344
And it focuses a lot on the food.

1039
00:46:35,575 --> 00:46:39,365
I wanted all the focus,
like, minimalistic props.

1040
00:46:39,985 --> 00:46:41,635
Yeah, okay, yeah.

1041
00:46:41,835 --> 00:46:46,935
And, um, you know, Claire understood
that very, very much from the minute

1042
00:46:46,955 --> 00:46:50,034
that I said it, you know, what,
and she's like, yeah, I get it.

1043
00:46:50,045 --> 00:46:51,215
That's what we're going to go for.

1044
00:46:51,645 --> 00:46:54,395
Go find your photographer
that is very much like that.

1045
00:46:54,655 --> 00:46:59,014
And Yuki just is, she's just
an amazing photographer.

1046
00:46:59,035 --> 00:47:03,765
So she was able to really capture what I
wanted, um, in the, in the book as well.

1047
00:47:07,025 --> 00:47:08,825
I knew I wanted to focus
on Sierra Leoneans.

1048
00:47:10,370 --> 00:47:15,390
But after that trip, it really, I
was very 100% sure that I'd gone down

1049
00:47:15,390 --> 00:47:19,030
the right route of just making it
about the everyday Sierra Leonean.

1050
00:47:19,260 --> 00:47:19,550
Yeah.

1051
00:47:19,730 --> 00:47:20,120
You know?

1052
00:47:20,140 --> 00:47:20,350
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1053
00:47:20,350 --> 00:47:24,010
And people that people wouldn't
necessarily write about usually.

1054
00:47:24,649 --> 00:47:25,119
Yes.

1055
00:47:25,210 --> 00:47:26,190
Or people that usually...

1056
00:47:26,200 --> 00:47:26,399
Yeah, absolutely.

1057
00:47:26,640 --> 00:47:31,370
People won't capture usually, I wanted
to capture that because for me I feel

1058
00:47:31,370 --> 00:47:36,230
like they're the real magic of Sierra
Leone and it's the people that will

1059
00:47:36,230 --> 00:47:41,769
welcome you into their home and their
space with a massive grin on their

1060
00:47:41,770 --> 00:47:46,509
face not expecting anything but just
being super super friendly and want

1061
00:47:46,509 --> 00:47:48,430
to feed you till you're Stomach first.

1062
00:47:48,430 --> 00:47:48,820
Really.

1063
00:47:48,825 --> 00:47:51,550
So the best kind of welcome,
the the best kind of welcome.

1064
00:47:51,550 --> 00:47:52,150
Exactly.

1065
00:47:52,150 --> 00:47:54,850
So it was very important
for me to showcase that

1066
00:47:55,340 --> 00:48:09,590
Lecker is hosted and produced by me.

1067
00:48:09,890 --> 00:48:13,990
Lucy Dearlove, thanks to my guest
on this episode, Maria Bradford.

1068
00:48:15,260 --> 00:48:18,180
Her book's Sweet Salone is out
now published by Quadrille.

1069
00:48:20,550 --> 00:48:24,130
As part of the new monthly Lekker book
club, I'll be writing about the book

1070
00:48:24,200 --> 00:48:26,100
over on the Lecker sub stack and Patreon.

1071
00:48:26,710 --> 00:48:27,650
Have you got a copy?

1072
00:48:27,660 --> 00:48:28,530
Are you reading it?

1073
00:48:28,610 --> 00:48:29,930
Have you been cooking from it too?

1074
00:48:30,270 --> 00:48:32,620
Come and chat about your favourite
recipes in the comments over

1075
00:48:32,620 --> 00:48:35,230
there or tag me on Instagram when
you post your finished dishes.

1076
00:48:35,529 --> 00:48:36,420
I'd love to see them.

1077
00:48:36,769 --> 00:48:38,469
I'm really excited to cook from it myself.

1078
00:48:40,419 --> 00:48:43,620
And just one more reminder before
the end of the show, you can sign

1079
00:48:43,620 --> 00:48:46,709
up as a paid subscriber to support
Lecker on Apple Podcasts and

1080
00:48:46,710 --> 00:48:48,459
Patreon and also now on sub stack.

1081
00:48:49,500 --> 00:48:50,440
Links are in the show notes.

1082
00:48:51,270 --> 00:48:54,410
Your support is really helpful
in keeping the podcast going.

1083
00:48:54,450 --> 00:48:58,260
And to any paid subscribers who
are listening here, thank you so

1084
00:48:58,339 --> 00:48:59,760
much for your continued support.

1085
00:48:59,810 --> 00:49:00,560
It means the world.

1086
00:49:01,239 --> 00:49:03,490
Music in this episode
is by Blue Dot Sessions.

1087
00:49:03,490 --> 00:49:07,189
Lecker Book Club will be back
in August with another delicious

1088
00:49:07,189 --> 00:49:08,490
read for your kitchen bookshelves.

1089
00:49:09,370 --> 00:49:10,090
Thanks for listening.