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Narrator: You're listening to
the humans of DevOps podcast, a

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podcast focused on advancing the
humans of DevOps through skills,

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knowledge, ideas, and learning,
or the skil framework.

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Ian Evans: I think the other
element that's important from a

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business perspective, as we
know, most businesses want to

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run hybrid workloads. The
frustrating part for most of the

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businesses is they didn't feel
there was a really good standard

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to essentially control all these
devices in the data centers.

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Eveline Oehrlich: Welcome to the
humans of DevOps Podcast. I'm

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Evelyn Erlich, Chief Research
Officer at DevOps Institute.

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Some of you might remember what
a SIS admin does, and others

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might not. I do and I remember
the hard work when I was in that

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role. I was part of a giant data
center consolidation many years

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ago, and I was a sysadmin in the
year y2k Or year 2000. Okay, I

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know that dates me, but I don't
really care. However, when I

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hear people saying that the data
center is dead, I have a very

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strong reaction because it's not
true. That is why I've invited

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two thought leaders and founders
who have architects and design

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the solution, which focuses on
the work in the data center. And

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today, as I said, we have two
leaders which have created a

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very interesting solution called
mattify, or a company called

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mattify. We'll talk about the
solution in a little bit. Let me

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introduce the two gentlemen. So
first one, Michael Wagner, is a

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co founder and CEO of mattify.
He began his career in 1995 as a

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network engineer, when he joined
IBM while still attending the

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University of Wisconsin Madison.
He worked in several senior

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management positions at IBM in
Boston and San Diego. Before

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joining Red Hat in 2010. Michael
was head of Channel Sales and

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alliances for North America at
Red Hat. He was one of the

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creators of Red Hat hats, epics
partner program for system

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integrators, implementing
OpenShift Kubernetes solutions

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in his final role before
launching mattify. The second

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person is Ian Evans. He is co
founder and CTO of mattify. He

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began his career in 1999. As the
director of IT for Quintus

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resorts. He got his first taste
of working in software startup

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when he next joined was Zabi
systems. As Director of Product

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Management at wasabi, Ian was
deeply involved in all aspects

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of product development and
strategy. In Sprott expertise in

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cutting edge infrastructure
technology led him to multiple

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senior architect positions with
some of the top technology

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companies on the planet
including AWS, Verizon, Lockheed

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Martin, and Red Hat. Ian's final
role before launching mattify

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was principal architect for the
global open solutions practice

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of WW Ts, and welcome to Our
Podcast management. My wonderful

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gentleman. Thank you. I call
this podcast a glimpse into two

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co founders journey for the data
center a sounds a little bit

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like Star Trek. I am a Star Trek
fan. So hopefully don't you

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don't mind. It is great to have
you to with us today. And I'm

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excited for our audience to
listen in. So we before we talk

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about mattify Ian, can you share
with me how you two have decided

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to become co founders and create
mattify? Where if you met give

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us the story?

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Ian Evans: Sure. Yeah. So we,
I've known Mike for about a

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little over four years. And the
idea of what we generally

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started working on a bunch of
different technologies around

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the data center. And you know,
in our respective roles, we

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really saw a lot of limitations
around getting the product out

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to market and doing it in a way
that was kind of free of

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obstacles. So of course that
started the the discussion

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around starting our own company,
and starting to figure out how

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we start to tackle the issues in
the data center, but build the

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product to basically facilitate
what we feel need to be done as

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quickly as possible. So we got
our start working on all those

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different technologies. You
brought it all into a single

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product plan. And then we
started to make some

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determinations on what areas of
that data center we're going to

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tackle first. And that really
led to the creation of mattify.

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And the wonderful product that
we have called Mojo.

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Eveline Oehrlich: So medified
name and does it stand for

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something? It does.

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Mike Wagner: Yeah, so mattify
it's a portmanteau combination

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of two words so metal and
simplified. So we put the first

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couple letters of metal last
couple of letters that simplify,

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and you get

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Eveline Oehrlich: mattify. Great
love that. I bet that was a

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variety of cycles of thinking,
which ideation around the name.

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That's fantastic. So, Michael,
what does mattify do? What is

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and what is so unique about
mattify?

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Mike Wagner: Yeah, so we went
against the grain, we saw a need

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in private cloud and data center
space, in particular. And as the

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sort of definition of what a
data center is, was quickly

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evolving, you know, the needs of
system administrators, the needs

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of folks that are in
infrastructure and operations,

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don't go away. And as that great
little meme that was floating

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around and still is, you know,
what is the cloud, it's just

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somebody else's computer. And
that's, that's the reality of

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it, you know. So for us, we
recognize that the hyper scalars

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have done a great job of
automating their infrastructure.

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And they did such a great job
that, you know, companies all

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around the world decided, well,
let's just get rid of this

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problem, when we're starting
off. While the data centers in

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most of the Fortune 1000,
companies really didn't change

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all that much. If you look at
historical spend, data center,

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data centers have grown, as far
as server spend, and as well as

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total megawatts, even in the
private data centers have grown

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consistently, every year. And
that hasn't changed. Now, cloud

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and hyper scalars have grown
much faster. But the fact that

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the data centers are still out
there is a testament to the fact

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that you know, fortune 1000
companies, companies that reach

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a certain size, the economies of
having their own hardware makes

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sense. So it's that kind of
question about do I rent? Or do

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I buy? And at some point, it
certainly makes sense to buy. So

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yeah, so what we did was we
wanted to make that incredibly

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simple. We wanted to create it
so that you know, the hard work

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that say Googles and Amazons
have done to make public cloud,

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incredibly consumable, super
easy to spin up a server, and

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get the exact hardware profile
that you want. We wanted to make

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that as easy as possible for
private organizations to do

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behind their firewall. And also,
you know, there was a big switch

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going on, that really was the
impetus for launching things in

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where we got our first use case
was right on the edge. So of

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course, the development of 5g
and the need to move, compute

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and storage closer to the
customer themselves, really led

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to us, you know, creating a
couple of different use cases

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for our product. And I think
that's helped to drive growth

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overall. So bottom line is we
just wanted to make accessing

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the hardware, discovering it,
provisioning it, and maintaining

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it, as simple as possible treat
it as a first class citizen, if

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you will, all the investment had
really gone AppStack, you know,

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into applications and
application frameworks and

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DevOps, you know, and in
general, like OpenShift, and

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Kubernetes, and Docker. That's
where all the interest was. But

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the fact that, you know,
everyone was still toiling down

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at the server level, and at the
chip level, to get these things

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to talk and get them organized
that way they need to with the

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right access, and governance,
compliance, all those things

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still existed. It's just
somebody else's computer and

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call it a cloud. But at the end
of the day, it's a bunch of

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servers.

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Eveline Oehrlich: Yep, I
understand when you said that

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you went exactly the opposite to
where everybody else's has been

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going. And particularly during
the pandemic, people were

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thinking, Oh, we got to move to
the cloud. And they took those

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two years or whatever how many
months it has, and they did it.

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But there's still a whole bunch
of and I wish we could quantify

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it. How much is still out there.
I'm sure Gartner has some data,

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in terms of how many data
centers are still out there.

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Alright, great. So where are you
going with the vision for

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mattify? What is what's the
short term? And are whatever

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short term means short term to
me mean sometimes a day? But I

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don't mean tomorrow, but you
know, in six months from now, in

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a year from now, what's your
vision forward?

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Mike Wagner: Yeah, so we have an
established channel program. So

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that's a big part of what we do.
We've got incredible business

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partners that we work with. But
from a vision perspective, it's

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really taking the product to a
broader audience. We currently

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our installation process is
something that we're working on

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right now, because we want to
make it push button, you know,

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immediately deployable from our
site. So that's a big step for

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us. But overall, it's just a
matter of, you know, continuing

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to do what we're doing and make
more customers aware of it. The

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footprint that we have right now
really covers most sectors. So

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we've had a great opportunity to
work with folks in financial

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services as well as media and
entertainment, banking,

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insurance, you name it, we've
kind of had Uh, we're working

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with those customers. So that's
a, that's a great thing. So you

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know, from an execution
perspective, we want to make

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sure that we're doing the things
that we want it to do really

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well, which is the discovery,
provisioning and maintaining of

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servers themselves. And then
expanding that out as we grow

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into really all of the edge use
cases and IoT sensors. And the

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best part about where we're
headed is, it's defined already,

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for us, essentially, we leverage
open standards. And so the open

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source communities, and the open
standards, communities that made

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our product possible, are really
defining directionally where we

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go. And from a r&d perspective,
that's something I learned from

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Red Hat, there's really no
beating the open source research

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and development model, there's
no beating the open source

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software development model,
because your r&d is essentially

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handled for you by the
community, you know, and as the

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community demands something, it
gets rolled into the open

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standard. And then we make it
almost instantly accessible

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inside of our product after we
test it and make sure that it

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works across different hardware
profiles. So that's, that's one

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of the great benefits of having
a redhead background is that

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it's, it showed me the power of
open source, and the power of

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open communities overall, to
really help drive product change

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and making sure that you're not
heading down technical rabbit

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holes that aren't gonna lead
anything, you know, these are

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all community driven. And so
whenever you're taking your

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marching orders from people
demanding features, you know

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that there's going to be an
audience for it.

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Eveline Oehrlich: They're a
different culture than it was

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when I started out in it, which
was 90, in the 90s. I'm glad

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we're here. And that's very
beautiful. I keep telling my

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daughters, hey, you should go
into it. But maybe I had too

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many ITIL books on my
nightstand, and they didn't want

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to do that. So there are
different topics today, but so

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very successful young ladies. So
culture is everything. It says

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on your whiteboard, Michael, in
your office, little word was

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telling me that. What, how does
that translate in your day to

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day because for us, the DevOps
Institute, you know, it's just

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human angle. We forget, there's
a lot of talk about tech, and

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all these different things. But
the culture and how we work and

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how people come together is
essential. Otherwise, we'll

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basically are machines. So tell
me a little bit about how this

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culture is everything translates
at your day to day mattify? With

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your coat with your customers,
your clients and everything

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else?

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Mike Wagner: Yeah, so that's
great. Yeah. So from a culture

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perspective, we really lead with
three core elements, if you

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will. And I think, you know,
culture evolves over time in an

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organization. But as a software
startup we came from large is

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large enterprises in the past,
and we saw a few things that we

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thought, okay, if we launched
our own, we know exactly what

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we'd want. So that was another
very cool thing of doing a

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startup is you get to kind of
build it to your dream, right?

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And eat and I, our cultural
wants, in terms of what a

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company should be, we're just
perfectly aligned. So

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essentially, it's number one is
kindness. So no egos no

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pretense, no bad attitudes,
right. If you're not having fun,

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I always have the saying, if
you're not enjoying it, you're

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probably in the wrong job. And,
you know, you should consider

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other options, right? We enjoy a
greatly coding and we love what

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we're doing, we, you know, the
hardware in general. And that

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intersection of where hardware
and software meet is just a

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really cool space to be. So
kindness is number one,

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transparency is number two, and
transparency, because that

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enables trust, right, and
without trust, you don't have

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much, especially in a small
organization. And you can boil

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that down to individual teams if
you're in a larger organization.

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But for us the transparency, you
know, we've got a small group of

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folks here trying to make this
dream happen. And that have made

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the product an award winning
product now, and you know, some

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some amazing customers. So it
really has to be there, from the

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very beginning. And throughout
the build process. So you know,

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essentially being able to see
what they've done, you know,

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let's take a look at your code
for today. Right? How did things

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go? Always checking in So
transparency is number two, and

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number three would be
consistency. And that's really,

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you can view that as essentially
a self discipline, right, and

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the will to collectively work
hard towards a common goal. And,

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you know, the excitement around
In our product Mojo platform,

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and you know, the fact that we
have some really cool customers,

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and that we're working with
some, some, some of the largest

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global players in their
respective spaces right now is

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really exciting. So I think it's
much easier to kind of create

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the collective vision now that
the product is built, and

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everyone sees the potential
around it. And so it's, those

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are the three main ones, though
kindness, transparency, and

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consistency. And as long as you
have those things in place, you

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know, you can kind of take on
the world.

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Eveline Oehrlich: Yeah, I'm sure
you get to read that culture is

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everything when you visit
Microsoft Office, anything you

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want to add to that,

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Ian Evans: I think might hit all
the the major ones for us. I

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mean, I agree with them. You
Humility is a big one for me.

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You know, I think that that goes
a very long ways. And I think if

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you get the right people in
place, and they enjoy their

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jobs, like he'd said, they're
doing great work, you know, the,

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the, the ability to manage
becomes a lot easier, you know,

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you don't have to engage in a
lot of micromanagement and stuff

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like that. So it's all about,
you know, just the attitude,

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this the selection of the person
in the role and allowing them to

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kind of spread their wings, you
know, I'm allowing them to take

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all the cumulative skills that
they've gathered over the years

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and feel that strong spirit of
innovation, and push it forward

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into in the product. And I think
when you do that, you get the

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best elements of everything,
from a company perspective, a

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product perspective, market
readiness, all of all of those

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things come together into a
great package. So yeah, I

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definitely agree with everything
he mentioned with maybe those

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those, those couple extra things
from from a company management

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and cultural perspective and all
those things.

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00:16:48,510 --> 00:16:51,240
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Eveline Oehrlich: Great. That
makes me think of one of my

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00:17:25,350 --> 00:17:29,460
former colleagues at Forrester
used to say actually two of them

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00:17:29,730 --> 00:17:32,190
to steal some research,
excellent research, they're at

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Forrester Research. He used to
say, happy employees, happy

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customers. And that goes for all
kinds of products, right? So if

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we have happiness and enjoyment,
then that translates into happy

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customers, because we enjoy what
we're doing. And this is in your

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case, and in anybody else's
case, even flying, or driving or

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ordering or anything like that.
So great. Okay. Yeah. And

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Ian Evans: I want to add one
quick thing, and that is, you

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mentioned happy customers peace.
And that, that that is one of

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the biggest things for us is
that we, we felt that the

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products being introduced to the
market were way too complex. And

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you know, and that obviously
leads into positive customer

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experience, you know, we want it
to be as seamless and easy to

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use as possible. And that to us
translates to happy customers.

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Eveline Oehrlich: Yep. Ah, that
makes me think of something

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00:18:27,810 --> 00:18:30,510
else. I wanted to ask you
community outreach, you guys

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00:18:30,510 --> 00:18:35,730
have done something around,
making sure that there is basic

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access to internet and things in
rural areas called something

295
00:18:42,090 --> 00:18:44,430
called photon Connect. Is that
correct? Can one of you

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00:18:44,430 --> 00:18:46,740
elaborate on what that is?
Because I think that is

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beautiful when I heard about
that.

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Mike Wagner: Yeah. So a few
years ago, when COVID hit, Ian

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lives in the, in the foothills
of the Blue Ridge Mountains. And

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that might be one of the most
challenging places to get

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broadband signals into that I've
ever seen personally, I'm in

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Madison, Wisconsin, and
comparatively, you know, it's

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farm pastures out here. It's
pretty simple. But we still have

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a lot of rural broadband
challenges as well. It's

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00:19:17,639 --> 00:19:22,739
surprising when you discovered
just how, how widespread the

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problem is across North America
still. But when COVID hit there

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was some teachers in particular
that were having trouble

308
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connecting and being able to
have their classes you know,

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delivered in a way that was
actually usable for the kids. So

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we identified a few of those
teachers and reached out to the

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school board and we're able to
get them hooked up at no charge

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to an Ian actually developed an
amazing product that we've gone

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00:19:52,769 --> 00:19:57,659
on to work with commercially and
have some some really cool

314
00:19:58,229 --> 00:20:00,539
customers that we're working
with on the come martial side

315
00:20:00,539 --> 00:20:04,979
now, commercial enterprise side.
And yeah, it's a it's called

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photon router. And it's a it's a
highly tuned customer premise

317
00:20:09,059 --> 00:20:13,169
piece of equipment that takes
care of all of the streaming

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difficulties that you would
discover it most people face

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with much even higher bandwidth
coming into the home. So yeah,

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that was that was the key, we
established our own ISP, and

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essentially got these teachers
online, so they could teach the

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classes with some degree of
performance and actually be able

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to interact with the kids and
use the the Zoom classes, and

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00:20:38,009 --> 00:20:43,619
the features that that the the
school board was using. The

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district was using to try and
enable the remote learning that

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was in place during COVID.

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Eveline Oehrlich: Beautiful,
very noble, great, great idea.

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00:20:51,449 --> 00:20:56,849
All right, cloud repatriation,
we've seen it we're hearing it

329
00:20:56,879 --> 00:21:01,919
to to, you know, some fin ops or
cost observability organizations

330
00:21:01,949 --> 00:21:07,799
are repatriating out of the
cloud. Not all not everything.

331
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But we've, we've seen it in
DevOps Institute and talked to

332
00:21:12,629 --> 00:21:16,919
all ambassadors and they see it
as well. So in what are some use

333
00:21:16,919 --> 00:21:21,209
cases, you've seen what Cloud
repatriation makes sense? And,

334
00:21:21,239 --> 00:21:25,409
and I like you, too, I know you
are. I'm gonna call you a nerd.

335
00:21:25,409 --> 00:21:28,049
But I mean it as a compliment,
not as derogative at

336
00:21:28,050 --> 00:21:30,780
Ian Evans: all. That's okay. I
get called that a lot.

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00:21:33,000 --> 00:21:34,530
Eveline Oehrlich: Yeah, Miko
calls you on the road all the

338
00:21:34,530 --> 00:21:39,060
time. Okay. But instead of
looking at it from the technical

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00:21:39,060 --> 00:21:42,540
perspective, I'd like to like
you to focus a little bit on the

340
00:21:42,540 --> 00:21:46,110
business value perspective, in
terms of cloud repatriation,

341
00:21:46,140 --> 00:21:48,180
what are some use cases you've
seen?

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00:21:48,270 --> 00:21:50,760
Ian Evans: So I think the
dynamics have changed a bit. You

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00:21:50,760 --> 00:21:54,180
know, one of the things that
I've noticed immediately is,

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you're starting to see
miniaturization in terms of

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hardware footprint, right? So
things that when notoriously

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00:22:01,170 --> 00:22:04,770
kind of take, you know, three
rows, or more, you know, for

347
00:22:04,770 --> 00:22:07,320
large workloads, as an example,
those are things that you're

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consolidating down into one or
two racks, or even less now,

349
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because of the core counts and
the efficiencies that are

350
00:22:13,050 --> 00:22:16,350
brought forth with new server
technologies. So, you know, when

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it comes to a real estate
perspective, looking at it from

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a spanned, it becomes a much
easier scenario for a lot of

353
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companies, because they can look
at that as footprint reduction,

354
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less building size, less cooling
infrastructure, so forth, all

355
00:22:30,600 --> 00:22:33,870
these translate into lower
costs. So what was a major

356
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obstacle before in that regard
is is now been, you know,

357
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largely fixed with the
efficiencies and the

358
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consolidation of hardware. So
that's one major driver there.

359
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And it makes it possible for
people to put very powerful

360
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workloads into smaller spaces,
so they don't need huge data

361
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centers to do that. I think the
other element that's important

362
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from a business perspective is
we know most businesses want to

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run hybrid workloads. The
frustrating part for most of the

364
00:23:01,860 --> 00:23:05,040
businesses is they didn't feel
there was really a really good

365
00:23:05,040 --> 00:23:08,670
standard to essentially control
all these devices in the data

366
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center. So the MTF redfish
standard is a great example of

367
00:23:13,860 --> 00:23:17,880
an improvement in that area, and
that it basically creates a set

368
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of extensible schemas and
purposes, it reaches into

369
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servers and storage and other
elements in the data center. And

370
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really, the overall goal is to
bring things into a standard

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unified API that's easy to
understand, easy to consume. And

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above all else, is accessible
through a multitude of different

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OEMs. So customer puts in a
command to power on a server,

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that would be the same command
across a Dell HP super micro

375
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platform, and so forth. That's
the overall goal. So with those

376
00:23:46,500 --> 00:23:48,990
pieces coming in, from a
business perspective, the

377
00:23:48,990 --> 00:23:53,430
elements of automation are more
achievable, as long as you have

378
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a toolset that accommodates
that. And that's really where

379
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Mojo came in is we wanted to
build that platform to use that

380
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standard. So people can
orchestrate automate hardware in

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00:24:04,590 --> 00:24:09,930
an in a very agnostic way. So
that those those drivers really

382
00:24:09,930 --> 00:24:12,540
help out quite a bit. And I
think also there's kind of the

383
00:24:12,540 --> 00:24:15,930
shock with Cloud spend as well,
and it's relatively hard to

384
00:24:15,930 --> 00:24:20,070
control. And you know, a lot of
customers, they put workloads in

385
00:24:20,070 --> 00:24:22,920
there and they have certain
expectations and some of those

386
00:24:22,920 --> 00:24:24,870
costs been out of control. And
next thing, you know, you're

387
00:24:24,870 --> 00:24:27,420
locked into specific
technologies, maybe this public

388
00:24:27,420 --> 00:24:31,080
cloud provider has and the
spends very high so customers

389
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are looking at ways with the
things I mentioned earlier,

390
00:24:33,870 --> 00:24:37,350
using those things, bringing it
all together and bringing

391
00:24:37,350 --> 00:24:41,010
workloads back into you know,
kind of like a smaller on prem

392
00:24:41,280 --> 00:24:42,180
type of footprint.

393
00:24:44,099 --> 00:24:49,889
Eveline Oehrlich: Yep, makes
sense. scuze me, I am doing some

394
00:24:49,889 --> 00:24:53,429
research or we at the DevOps
Institute have done five years

395
00:24:53,429 --> 00:24:57,329
of research now on it upskilling
or we call it upskilling at

396
00:24:57,359 --> 00:25:02,399
2023. We just have a report
public session we share a lot of

397
00:25:02,399 --> 00:25:06,209
the findings there the top two
domain skills or capabilities,

398
00:25:06,479 --> 00:25:10,319
which are must have a process
skills, you know, be it ITIL it

399
00:25:10,319 --> 00:25:15,359
for it DevOps, agile scrum, you
know, name them, and technical

400
00:25:15,359 --> 00:25:17,909
skills. Those are the two top
most important skill domains.

401
00:25:19,259 --> 00:25:23,279
When we think about this topic
of moving workloads, and or data

402
00:25:23,279 --> 00:25:27,809
back to on premise on the skills
in a data center, that's one

403
00:25:27,809 --> 00:25:31,109
thing, I think that's one
challenge, I can see already.

404
00:25:32,189 --> 00:25:36,539
When we everybody wants to have
clouds skills, and has cloud

405
00:25:36,539 --> 00:25:40,439
skills and container skills and
all of that wonderful stuff. The

406
00:25:40,439 --> 00:25:43,439
second one political
considerations if I'm the CTO,

407
00:25:43,919 --> 00:25:46,469
and I decided two years ago,
five years ago, we're gonna go

408
00:25:46,469 --> 00:25:50,759
all cloud. And I'm still around.
And now I have to say, I'm

409
00:25:51,479 --> 00:25:55,559
sorry, but I think we need to
move certain things back. That

410
00:25:55,559 --> 00:26:01,799
could be carried over. Maybe.
Those are just two aspects of

411
00:26:01,799 --> 00:26:06,059
cloud repatriation conversations
I've had with clients and and

412
00:26:06,059 --> 00:26:09,809
others, Michael, to you. Have
you had conversations with your

413
00:26:09,809 --> 00:26:14,039
clients on Cloud repatriation,
and hearing other things? And if

414
00:26:14,039 --> 00:26:19,589
not other, maybe comment on
skills versus cost and political

415
00:26:19,589 --> 00:26:20,489
savviness?

416
00:26:21,150 --> 00:26:25,380
Mike Wagner: Yeah, okay. So,
couple good threads there. So

417
00:26:25,380 --> 00:26:29,370
I'll start with the discussion
around skills. And that was

418
00:26:29,370 --> 00:26:32,970
really one of the core reasons
why we developed the product.

419
00:26:34,710 --> 00:26:38,340
You know, we saw Ian saw a need,
and we've both had the

420
00:26:38,340 --> 00:26:40,860
opportunity to go to data
centers of some of the top

421
00:26:40,860 --> 00:26:45,480
companies globally, and you see
the way they're running things.

422
00:26:45,480 --> 00:26:48,120
And you recognize that there's a
few people that really hold the

423
00:26:48,120 --> 00:26:50,400
keys to the castle. And they're
from a hardware perspective,

424
00:26:50,400 --> 00:26:55,320
which is, that's an exposure.
And then being able to knowledge

425
00:26:55,320 --> 00:26:58,620
transfer, how things are done
internally is also a very

426
00:26:58,620 --> 00:27:02,370
difficult thing. So we wanted to
create really a first class

427
00:27:02,370 --> 00:27:06,150
citizen, if you will, a first
class application that makes

428
00:27:06,180 --> 00:27:11,280
that intersection of people and
hardware as simple as possible.

429
00:27:12,060 --> 00:27:15,810
And that's where Mojo platform
really came in. And Ian has a

430
00:27:15,810 --> 00:27:19,590
navy background he worked in
with some Navy contractors and

431
00:27:19,800 --> 00:27:24,270
the KISS principle that keep it
simple, stupid principle around,

432
00:27:24,540 --> 00:27:28,110
alright, what can we do to build
a tool that's just very easy to

433
00:27:28,110 --> 00:27:32,520
use very intuitive, and handles
all of this sort of manually

434
00:27:32,520 --> 00:27:38,850
heavy, and very error prone
activity that's often left to

435
00:27:38,880 --> 00:27:44,250
individuals. And in particular,
we're talking BIOS upgrades,

436
00:27:44,550 --> 00:27:48,030
firmware upgrades, remote
provisioning of operating

437
00:27:48,030 --> 00:27:51,420
systems, remote booting of
operating systems wiping of hard

438
00:27:51,420 --> 00:27:54,870
drives. So you know, this, this
low level, ability to do what

439
00:27:54,870 --> 00:27:58,620
you need to do from a server
maintenance perspective, just

440
00:27:58,620 --> 00:28:04,260
was a glaring problem and having
lived through it, you know, he

441
00:28:04,260 --> 00:28:07,740
just wanted to create sort of
the dream tool, if you will. So

442
00:28:07,770 --> 00:28:12,180
handling that skills gap, and
being able to allow companies to

443
00:28:13,020 --> 00:28:18,780
take those resources and
repurpose them into more

444
00:28:18,780 --> 00:28:22,890
valuable roles, is, was an
important consideration for us.

445
00:28:22,890 --> 00:28:26,640
And one of the core reasons we
built motion platform. So you

446
00:28:26,640 --> 00:28:29,070
know, we want to make it so that
anybody can come in with minimal

447
00:28:29,070 --> 00:28:31,920
training on that tool, and be
able to build private clouds

448
00:28:32,040 --> 00:28:35,460
build, you know, the the pools
that are necessary, provide the

449
00:28:35,790 --> 00:28:39,540
infrastructure controls, the
governance, the are back, all

450
00:28:39,540 --> 00:28:43,080
the things that are required to
have a well maintained

451
00:28:43,320 --> 00:28:46,440
infrastructure that provides
what your developers need, at

452
00:28:46,470 --> 00:28:50,880
with just a few clicks. And
that, that we've managed to do.

453
00:28:50,880 --> 00:28:53,700
So we're excited about having
sort of that phase one of the

454
00:28:53,700 --> 00:28:57,450
project if you will, phase one
of our, our software proven and,

455
00:28:57,840 --> 00:29:02,400
and really loved by our
customers. And the next piece of

456
00:29:02,400 --> 00:29:06,120
it, the use cases, or the use
cases really came to us again,

457
00:29:06,120 --> 00:29:10,560
because you know, open
standards. We have Major League

458
00:29:10,560 --> 00:29:13,440
Baseball is a big customer of
ours. And as an example, you

459
00:29:13,440 --> 00:29:16,350
know, they're a hybrid company.
They have stadiums all over

460
00:29:16,350 --> 00:29:21,030
North America, and data centers,
you know, the overall definition

461
00:29:21,030 --> 00:29:24,120
of even what a data center is,
is just stretching and changing

462
00:29:24,150 --> 00:29:27,810
as we speak. And that's, you
know, as we get closer to the

463
00:29:27,810 --> 00:29:32,250
edge and as the demands of what
compute and storage need to do,

464
00:29:33,000 --> 00:29:38,340
because the optimization of the
architecture itself requires it.

465
00:29:39,690 --> 00:29:42,750
We just wherever the workload
needs to be, we're fine with it.

466
00:29:42,810 --> 00:29:47,280
So Cloud repatriation, yes. It's
happening also from just a

467
00:29:47,280 --> 00:29:49,440
application perspective, or
they're like, well, we we did a

468
00:29:49,440 --> 00:29:53,280
lift and shift because we wanted
to get rid of the optics of

469
00:29:53,280 --> 00:29:56,280
having a data center and the
people right, and then they

470
00:29:56,280 --> 00:29:59,970
recognize holy moly, there is or
I should say the cap

471
00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:03,480
expenditure. And there's an
incredible operating expenditure

472
00:30:03,510 --> 00:30:07,890
in the cloud. And there's
definitely a break even point of

473
00:30:07,890 --> 00:30:11,910
when you recognize that, with
the miniaturization and advances

474
00:30:11,910 --> 00:30:15,690
in technology and advances in
chip power and the shrinking of

475
00:30:15,690 --> 00:30:19,860
storage, you can do all those
things in house for a lot

476
00:30:19,890 --> 00:30:24,240
cheaper. And there's, you know,
myriad cases where you can look

477
00:30:24,240 --> 00:30:27,150
those up online and just see all
of the money that's being saved

478
00:30:27,150 --> 00:30:29,250
across the board. And we
ourselves, have done some really

479
00:30:29,250 --> 00:30:32,700
cool work in that regard as
well. So the stuff that Major

480
00:30:32,700 --> 00:30:35,400
League Baseball is doing is a
hybrid cloud, we partnered with

481
00:30:35,400 --> 00:30:39,450
Google on it. And it's just
incredible to see all that's

482
00:30:39,450 --> 00:30:43,710
enabled at the edge sitting on
top of Mojo's provisioned

483
00:30:43,740 --> 00:30:49,710
servers, and then it bursts up
into GCP 7.2 terabytes of data

484
00:30:49,710 --> 00:30:54,210
per game. And they've just got
an amazing amount of really cool

485
00:30:54,570 --> 00:30:58,230
data that's pulled in there for
all of their fans to interact

486
00:30:58,230 --> 00:31:03,150
with. And see in real time, you
know, how far Aaron judges home

487
00:31:03,150 --> 00:31:06,240
run went when he hit his 62nd.
One, you know, so it's just

488
00:31:06,450 --> 00:31:09,000
amazing all the things they can
track even the speed of the ball

489
00:31:09,000 --> 00:31:12,090
as it spins off the pitchers
hand and, you know, more data

490
00:31:12,090 --> 00:31:17,280
than you can imagine, gets
loaded up and, and used by fans

491
00:31:17,310 --> 00:31:21,060
every game. So yeah, it's the
it's the use cases themselves

492
00:31:21,060 --> 00:31:24,540
that have really brought this
sometimes cloud repatriation,

493
00:31:24,540 --> 00:31:28,770
sometimes just natural, new
build, you know, Greenfield

494
00:31:28,770 --> 00:31:33,060
space where we have to change
the way the solution is

495
00:31:33,060 --> 00:31:37,680
architected, to really get the
option, the optimal footprint to

496
00:31:37,680 --> 00:31:40,590
deliver the best experience
possible to our customers.

497
00:31:41,609 --> 00:31:44,999
Ian Evans: Yeah, wait, I was
gonna add in quick thing on

498
00:31:44,999 --> 00:31:50,249
that, you know, we also
understand that, in order to

499
00:31:50,249 --> 00:31:53,279
have a successful product that
works well in, in a hybrid

500
00:31:53,279 --> 00:31:55,739
setting, or, you know, in a
private data center type of

501
00:31:55,739 --> 00:31:59,789
setting to automate different
hardware, you really need to

502
00:31:59,789 --> 00:32:03,179
make sure that people that are
coming from the public cloud,

503
00:32:03,179 --> 00:32:05,909
find the tool relatively
familiar, you know, so from a

504
00:32:05,909 --> 00:32:09,209
DevOps perspective, you know, we
wanted to make sure that we

505
00:32:09,209 --> 00:32:12,269
weren't introducing something
that seemed foreign or you know,

506
00:32:12,269 --> 00:32:15,449
monolithic, it's kind of that
like, fine balance, you know, we

507
00:32:15,449 --> 00:32:18,749
want to make sure that we keep
it very simple. We also want to

508
00:32:18,749 --> 00:32:22,289
make sure that it's also
familiar, and, you know, if, if

509
00:32:22,289 --> 00:32:27,449
a DevOps person is working on
our system, and they prefer to

510
00:32:27,449 --> 00:32:29,639
use Ansible, they can use
Ansible, they want to use

511
00:32:29,639 --> 00:32:32,519
TerraForm, they can certainly
use TerraForm. So we want to

512
00:32:32,519 --> 00:32:35,639
keep it very open in that
respect, as well, you know,

513
00:32:35,639 --> 00:32:38,309
bring your own tools, bring your
own servers, you know, flexible

514
00:32:38,309 --> 00:32:42,269
platform, you know, very much
common in terms of things that

515
00:32:42,269 --> 00:32:45,299
they would see, within the
public cloud, a lot of the terms

516
00:32:45,299 --> 00:32:48,119
are the same. So we really
worked hard to make sure that

517
00:32:48,119 --> 00:32:52,199
the tool is recognizable to
people that are coming from

518
00:32:52,199 --> 00:32:55,229
those environments, but also,
you know, very, very much usable

519
00:32:55,229 --> 00:32:57,899
when they're using both of those
environments at the same time.

520
00:32:58,830 --> 00:33:01,770
Eveline Oehrlich: Great points.
Excellent learning. Super. All

521
00:33:01,770 --> 00:33:06,810
right. Last question. And this
has nothing to do with any of

522
00:33:06,810 --> 00:33:09,600
what we've talked about. Well,
maybe I'll leave it up to you,

523
00:33:09,750 --> 00:33:12,180
gentlemen. What do you guys do
for fun?

524
00:33:13,710 --> 00:33:21,120
Mike Wagner: Oh, boy. So I guess
I'll go first. I love music. I

525
00:33:21,120 --> 00:33:25,860
mean, I jokingly, Ian and I
always joke around that this is

526
00:33:25,860 --> 00:33:30,000
all just a front for us to be
able to put our album out once

527
00:33:30,330 --> 00:33:35,550
our company goes public. So but
we'll see. Right. So I've been

528
00:33:35,550 --> 00:33:41,520
playing bass for many years. And
so that's that's something a big

529
00:33:41,520 --> 00:33:45,300
hobby of mine, for sure. I also
play chess. And I have five

530
00:33:45,300 --> 00:33:49,170
kids. So that Oh, really busy.
Yeah.

531
00:33:49,680 --> 00:33:52,110
Eveline Oehrlich: Yes.
Excellent. And you Ian.

532
00:33:52,320 --> 00:33:55,290
Ian Evans: Yeah. So we might
have some similarities in terms

533
00:33:55,290 --> 00:33:59,010
of things we like to do for fun.
I mean, music is a big thing for

534
00:33:59,010 --> 00:34:03,300
me. I've done it for a long time
I play bass, I play guitar. So I

535
00:34:03,300 --> 00:34:08,490
enjoy that. I also just really
enjoy working within the

536
00:34:08,490 --> 00:34:11,640
community. So a lot of my time
my free time is spent on you

537
00:34:11,640 --> 00:34:14,310
know, things we talked like
photon connects Community

538
00:34:14,310 --> 00:34:18,780
Improvement Project, I want to
see how I can improve outcomes

539
00:34:18,780 --> 00:34:21,030
for people in the community. And
I'm always looking for

540
00:34:21,030 --> 00:34:23,190
challenges, you know, things
that have been challenges for a

541
00:34:23,190 --> 00:34:26,550
very long period of time.
Nobody's addressed those. I love

542
00:34:26,550 --> 00:34:29,670
those types of things. So when I
see them, I tried to address

543
00:34:29,670 --> 00:34:34,170
them. And if my background in
what I've done in my background

544
00:34:34,200 --> 00:34:37,950
can help push those things
forward within the community.

545
00:34:38,310 --> 00:34:41,370
That's one thing I spend a lot
of time for on and then the

546
00:34:41,370 --> 00:34:45,090
other ones are animal welfare.
I'm very much involved in the

547
00:34:45,090 --> 00:34:50,070
community when it comes to
wildlife and sustaining that and

548
00:34:50,070 --> 00:34:52,140
ensuring that you know, there's
some involvement in the

549
00:34:52,140 --> 00:34:55,500
communities involved in
sustaining the natural wildlife

550
00:34:55,500 --> 00:34:56,850
ecosystem here as well.

551
00:34:57,870 --> 00:34:59,970
Eveline Oehrlich: Excellent.
Gentlemen, this has been

552
00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:03,780
Fantastic. You guys have
enriched my life significantly

553
00:35:03,780 --> 00:35:08,190
today. And I hope you've enjoyed
this conversation as well. Thank

554
00:35:08,190 --> 00:35:12,600
you again, for all of the
learning and the sharing. And

555
00:35:12,630 --> 00:35:14,910
your last part they are on what
you do for fun.

556
00:35:15,870 --> 00:35:17,580
Ian Evans: It's been a pleasure.
Thank you very much.

557
00:35:18,630 --> 00:35:21,090
Eveline Oehrlich: We've been
talking to Michael Wagner, co

558
00:35:21,090 --> 00:35:25,410
founder and CEO of benify. And
Ian Evans, co founder and CTO of

559
00:35:25,410 --> 00:35:28,470
mattify. Gentlemen, again, thank
you very much for your time

560
00:35:28,470 --> 00:35:32,760
joining me today on humans of
DevOps podcast and have a great

561
00:35:32,760 --> 00:35:34,470
mattify journey, I'll say.

562
00:35:35,580 --> 00:35:36,480
Mike Wagner: Thanks very much.

563
00:35:37,740 --> 00:35:40,800
Eveline Oehrlich: Yes, humans of
DevOps podcast is produced by

564
00:35:40,800 --> 00:35:44,220
DevOps Institute. Our audio
production team includes Julia

565
00:35:44,220 --> 00:35:48,000
pape, Daniel Newman, Schultz and
Brandon Lee. Shout out to those

566
00:35:48,000 --> 00:35:51,540
colleagues of mine do a
wonderful job also at their day,

567
00:35:51,900 --> 00:35:55,740
and recording and making sure
things are well. I'm humans of

568
00:35:55,740 --> 00:35:59,490
DevOps podcast executive
producer Evelyn earlyish. If you

569
00:35:59,490 --> 00:36:02,880
would like to join us on the
podcast, please contact us at

570
00:36:03,090 --> 00:36:08,280
humans of DevOps podcast at
DevOps institute.com. I'm

571
00:36:08,280 --> 00:36:10,350
abolutely. Talk to you soon.

572
00:36:12,870 --> 00:36:14,970
Narrator: Thanks for listening
to this episode of the humans of

573
00:36:14,970 --> 00:36:18,510
DevOps podcast. Don't forget to
join our global community to get

574
00:36:18,510 --> 00:36:21,840
access to even more great
resources like this. Until next

575
00:36:21,840 --> 00:36:25,350
time, remember, you are part of
something bigger than yourself.

576
00:36:25,620 --> 00:36:26,370
You belong