Welcome to the Seidman Mentorship Podcast.

This is your captain speaking on the show.

We navigate the voyage of life through the lens of Lakers,

some who have just come aboard, and others who are well underway.

We will speak with experts who will show us the ropes, help us plot a course,

and recount exhilarating tales of uncharted territory,

all while promoting lifelong learning agility and a culture of mentorship.

Today on the show, I welcome Professor Leslie Lynch.

Professor Lynch is an affiliative practice at Grand Valley State University,

Seidman College of Business,

where she instructs undergraduate and graduate students.

Few instructors have as much professional experience as Professor Lynch.

She talks about making difficult business decisions as an executive,

shares experiences,

and tells students what they need to know about today's world in business.

She even hits a few hard balls out of the park talking about work-life balance

and the realities of being an executive.

She shares ideas on how to use and find mentors, grow,

learn, do, and be.

Professor Leslie Lynch. Welcome to the Seidman Mentorship podcast, ahoy,

welcome aboard with our nautical pun theme, which we do all the time.

If you've listened to any of the other episodes, uh,

you know what you're in for and you know me,

so I think you know what you're in for-.

-I'm ready.

-Um, as full disclosure, uh,

you are one of my instructors in the MBA program here at Grand Valley,

so it's an honor. Um, and we'll see if I learned anything.

I hope so. We'll see.

-From you. So, um, when you were teaching, uh, my cohort,

I remember you always told us to start a presentation with a story,

so I'll prompt you, uh, like I do on all the episodes.

Tell us about your Laker journey thus far.

Oh, such a great question. So,

I don't think many people know that I actually have been on this campus for

about 10 years. So yeah, people don't realize that I didn't know that.

I know because I was in my corporate life running a company and I

did adjunct faculty work for about seven years

before I joined. I taught managerial accounting two 13 undergrads,

and I did that one semester, well, two semesters a year. Um,

and just did that on top of my regular day job of, you know,

in corporate America. So, I joined Grand Valley.

I had always intended when I turned 55 that I was going to leave my

big corporate busy, crazy,

hectic life behind and hopefully have an opportunity to make a difference in

other people's lives and rise up other leaders to do great work and run

interesting companies. And so around 55,

I left my corporate life and I, um,

joined Grand Valley and started as a visitor and am now an

affiliate faculty of practice. I teach, um,

undergrad courses in the MBA, in the executive MBA,

I do some of our corporate education. Um, so full-time,

little bit of everything.

You have a varied background when it comes to business and would take a whole

nother podcast probably to go through that.

But I know from having you as an instructor,

you've done everything from banking, you've done a lot of restructuring,

and I assume with that you've made difficult business decisions and

had to execute them. It's not like you sat in the Ivory Tower and said, hey,

yeah, we have to reduce our workforce by X,

but then you had to go out and deliver the bad news to employees. So,

you've been in a lot of these situations that aren't

necessarily scriptable. Is that fair to say?

Fair to say? I,

I hope that when I can share some of those stories and experiences with others,

that it's not a script. It is a what works here,

but I've done, I, I,

it's easy to remember all the hard stuff that I've done in my career.

What I try really hard to focus on is I got to do some amazing things in my

career as well. I think the toughest,

I think that I had two probably tough times in my career,

but the one that I share the most is the great recession in 2008,

Muni Finance Investment Bank in Chicago, publicly held, um,

lost position due to the, you know, crash. It was all bad. And,

um, a ton of how do we get this company back making money?

Um, the CEO and I worked very closely together with a bunch of other people,

of course, but I was responsible for the cost savings initiative

as part of our restructuring to get us back fitted to first break

even, and then, you know, making some money. And that was tough work.

That was tough work.

I know we've, we've talked before and I know that you,

I think fair, it was fair for me to say, you identify more introverted, right?

So you spend energy,

and I've seen you come to class and I've seen you come with your roller bag and

your coffee in hand. And I've seen you and Professor Leonard,

who was on this show a couple, um, episodes ago, the same.

You fire yourself up for class, you do your thing,

and then I know you go home and I, I think you walk your dog, right? And,

and you're, you're, you're done with people for the day, right? You're,

that's your recharge.

How does somebody who's introverted like that do a,

a mass laugh where you're in a meeting where you're, you're terminating people?

What is that like? And then how do you,

how do you create the space to where I,

I think I would probably cry and want to hug every single person and follow up

with them every day. You can't do that. So how do you build that resiliency and,

and maybe that boundary to just get your job done?

I think the job is a, you know, combination of both.

The easy part is just looking at the P and L and saying, we've got to cut.

And if I cut this many people, I save this much money.

And if I cut this many more, I get to break even. And, um, I,

that's the easy part of the job.

The hard part is I've got human beings on the other side of that,

and I am responsible for delivering, um,

tough messages or sharing with managers that are going to in turn deliver tough

messages,

always with the rule of thumb that I promise that I

will always take as much time departing somebody as I took hiring them.

And that takes a lot of, um, patience.

I have helped people write their resumes.

I will practice interviewing with them.

I will do whatever I've made contacts with them where I know they're going to be

successful somewhere else. Um, I think that it's a,

it is a hard thing to let someone go from a role.

If you think of all of the people in their lives that that's going to affect,

um, it's not as easy as just saying, you know, we need to get to break even.

We're eliminating your job and you're leaving. Yeah. That's the easy part.

The hard part is making that personal connection,

having that relationship enough with them and helping them to be successful and

move on. And that's a lot of work, and that's hard. Um, and yes,

as an introvert, that is a ton of energy-taking

activities. Um, but I always knew that there were ways that I would recharge.

And that individual on the receiving end of that departure deserved all of

my time, attention, and energy, because I needed to make a tough decision.

And they were on the side of it that was going to be departing. The good news,

however, is I run into those people.

I continue to run into people that have left organizations in which I've worked,

and they're in a good spot. They've done great things. They, you know,

grow in their careers.

So not that that is ever foreseeable at the time of the departure,

but you can, you can do it right.

It just takes a lot more effort.

Almost all of my mentors, and I consider you a mentor of mine, um,

have this ability to make fans. So, you leave people as a fan. So,

before the show we were talking about, I got back together the MBA cohort,

and you're very highly respected among my cohort as one of our instructors.

And that's important.

And as you tell this story about leaving these people kind of as a fan,

even though you had to do something tough, like terminate them,

and I have been on the receiving end of a layoff before,

and I remember the people who did it well, and the people who didn't do it well,

and you don't, you don't forget that one of the reasons I'm drawn to higher ed,

and maybe this is true for you too,

everybody remembers a great teacher in their lives going all the way back to

elementary school.

Everybody remembers a bad teacher going all the way back to elementary school.

So that opportunity that we have, uh,

to shape student lives is such an honor and so important. And I know, uh,

from our past discussions, I think you feel the same way.

Where did you learn that? Who were your mentors? Did mentorship,

is that how you learned? Or did you, so Phil Sims was in the chair, uh,

just before you, and we talked about is there such a thing as self mentoring,

you know?

Well, I think obviously early in our lives I've had bosses that have said,

where did you get your work ethic, though? I don't know. We,

I get my work ethic. This was just, I learned how to do. Um, I,

my dad was a strong mentor in my life,

not that it was always great mentorship. So,

we had a guest speaker in the other day that used a term that I have never

thought of before, but it was called an,

he used the reference to an anti-mentor.

And maybe those are the people in our lives that we learned from.

I learned a million things from my dad, and I quote him often.

He was an interesting, um, business, um, professional,

but I also learned a lot of things they wouldn't do. We were just,

we led in different times. And during his time of leadership,

he would come home and complain and, you know, oh,

this is what we're going to do. And I'm like,

I remember as a high school student sitting at the table thinking I would never

have handled it that way.

Not that I would've said that to my father at that time,

but it did help me to learn. So early, mentors, coaches, you know,

the same old, same old that I hear from my students all the time. Teachers,

mentor, you know, teachers, coaches, um, moms and dads, um,

all of those things. But through, I've been assigned mentors through my career.

Some of that worked, some of it didn't work.

I have sought out my own mentors through my career. Um, some of that worked,

some of that didn't work. I've had bosses that were great mentors,

some that weren't. So, I think mentoring,

like anything else in our business careers is a bit of a,

sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't.

And when you've got that mentor that just really pushes you to

be a little bit better tomorrow than you were yesterday,

you need to grab those relationships. At this point in my career,

it's all about more giving back. I still have mentors in my career, um,

don't get me wrong,

but my role I feel now is the opportunity to sort of do that, give back.

I think it's a great honor that I get to do what I do for Grand Valley,

but I also,

I hope that I have the opportunity on people that are earlier in their careers

that I can kind of share some things that I did that worked really well,

and the things that I did that didn't work so well. So, I think mentoring is,

we,

we get it early in our careers and we learn and we get better and we grow and we

lead and all those things.

But then it is also our responsibility to give back and, um,

because we can reverse that mentorship too.

I've been fascinated ever since last year we did a round table with students and

professionals of introverts and extroverts. You and I are both, uh,

Pondera virtual, uh, advisor interpreter. So, we interpret data.

For those who don't know, the Pondera assessment is used quite a bit at Seidman,

but more at Grand Valley as a whole. And it's kind of boy,

uh, Pondera is listening. So, I, I, I don't want to just say it's a, a,

if I say personality assessment, you know what I'm talking about.

But it's not a personality assessment. It's a work style assessment.

But I think that's the easiest parallel I can make for our audience.

I'm interested in, in how you sought out, uh, mentors.

Oh, seeking out mentors very,

very hard for an introvert because what we like to do is, I like to go to,

especially earlier in my career, I like to go to work.

I like to work crazy hard. Give me whatever goals you want to give me.

I will accomplish them. I, that is what I,

I'm sort of all about.

But it wasn't until I probably had somebody sit down with me and say,

you might be at the highest level. You are going to be in this organization,

and potentially others, unless you learn to develop more social skills,

more relationship skills. That just wasn't my gig.

I'm much happier just getting my work done. Not that I'm not,

I'm not, it's not that I'm not a nice person.

I just get more wired by getting stuff done. So, I,

I had to learn those things. So,

I did need to seek somebody out that was able to help me. I'm, I,

it would've been much easier in my career to wake up and say,

I really would like to be an extrovert today.

That would've been way easier way to do it. But of course,

that just is not the case. I am introverted.

I prefer to reenergize in my own head space.

I had to be able to learn how to compartmentalize when I needed to be on,

if you will. Not that that was an in,

in or un- unauthentic me.

I could be on and still be who I am. But I also needed off.

So,

I sought out mentors that could help to teach me how to gain social

skills, um, develop, um,

an opportunity to deepen relationships. I'm,

I am not motivated by having deep, deep relationships. Um,

so I moved into a sales position.

That was probably one of the best pieces of advice that a mentor ever gave me

was I worked the internal space exceptionally well and just got stuff done for

the organization. But to advance, I really needed to develop my social skills,

my sales skills, my ability to build relationships. So,

I went out and carried a bag and generated revenue.

And you had, was it comforting? Because when I think of sales,

which I spent a lot of my career in sales too, in a way, it's kind of,

the interaction is scripted, right? We talked to the client,

we find out what the client needs.

We see if we have a matching solution or product, we present, we close the deal,

we collect the money, we move on. Is that, is that pattern,

that social script I call it, is that comforting to, uh, uh, introvert?

Um, the script is comforting.

What helped me in sales, honestly,

was treating it as if it was just a numbers game. So,

I need this much in revenue.

I need this many appointments to get that much in revenue.

I need to go to this many events and make this many face-to-face meetings and

have this. So, it was a numbers game for me. So, I need,

I had a sales territory. I left on Sunday nights. I came home Thursday.

I just simply didn't come home Thursday if I didn't have all those numbers done.

I worked on Friday in my territory and made sure I hit all my numbers.

And if I hit those numbers every week, I was going. So,

I simply approached it as a numbers game. Now did that help my social skills?

Of course, you know, how many breakfasts can you have in a day?

How many lunches can you have?

How many times can you walk into a Chamber of Commerce meeting and shake hands?

You know,

of course you develop those skills just by practicing them.

There's three follow ups I want to have from, from that.

I want to ask you about work-life balance. We're going to get back to that.

Back to the mentoring. So,

what's the calculus inside your head for choosing that mentor? Do you, I,

I would go around and just meet people That's not your style.

Did you find the top sales person and go to them and say, hey,

I don't know what you're doing, but it's successful. I want to do that. How did,

how does it work?

How does this calculus in your head work for you choosing your mentorship

partner?

Pretty good of a self-aware. So,

I know I am not closing. I better find somebody who's really,

really good at this. So it wasn't just broadly, who's the best salesperson?

It's who is the best closer. And so that person assisted me.

They came with me, they coached me. They worked with me. Um, so there,

when, it was, when I had an opportunity to, you know,

move into an executive level role and I was initially told I was not going to be

moving at the executive level.

I sat down with someone that I had known for years and years and years and said,

hey, this is what just happened. I was not selected for this role.

And he was like straight up, honest with me on, you know,

you don't think strategically. What, what are you talking about? So, I'm like,

and he didn't even work with me. And he absolutely nailed it.

I went back to the CEO and said, I need to develop my strategic skills.

What do I need to do? Because I am going to be on that executive committee. So,

I, I think I am pretty good at knowing like,

I'm really good at this. I'm not so great at this.

And the mentors that I have found have not been the people that are good at this

stuff that I'm good at, because that's not helping me.

It's really going in the direction of I might, I,

I just need help with something that I'm not good at.

When I first moved here to West Michigan from Chicago,

that was a pretty big culture shock for me, I bet from a business perspective.

And the company that I came to work for, amazing, amazing, CEO. Um,

and he selected a mentor for me to help guide that transition.

Um, because I was kind of blown stuff up.

The way that we got things done in Chicago was not the way that we did

things here. And I was driving people crazy. And so I,

I think it's finding a mentor that's like me that's good at the things

that I want to sit down with. Can't wait to hang out and have coffee with,

that's not going to do me or them- it's not a good use of their time or mine.

That's a friend that's not a mentor. So, a person that can really say to me,

you're not good at this and I have,

we need to work through some things that help you get there.

I think that's very different.

It's a brilliant example of something Phil Sims and I talked about in the last

episode. And he and I were at a coffee shop and as I look back at my mentors,

the most effective mentors I have picked are introverts.

They're the opposite of me. They're diversity of thought.

And we were working on this episode where we were talking about work style and

we came up with an equation that made more sense to Phil than what Gerry

would do.

And that equation is what I want is one half times

what I perceive the mentor has is that equal to or greater than the energy it's

going to take to connect? And so the more that you know what you want,

that strengthens that piece of the equation. But sometimes we don't.

We just see what the other person has.

I always think the introverts when I interview them,

are very good at concentrating on what they want.

And the extroverts are concentrating on what they have.

That guy's the best sales guy. That's good. I want that.

I think that way from an extroversion,

you identify your weaknesses and their strengths to both we're both successful.

Um, businesspeople before we came to higher ed,

I love the piece of where you're talking about mentorship and sometimes mentors

are friends,

but more often the mentor's a person that has to sit you down and say, look,

you're off the rails here. Or this is where you need, this is the perception.

That you're creating and you have to earn the right to have that

conversation. But what an impactful conversation.

I want to jump back to work-life balance and I want to take you back. Um,

so you taught professional development,

you taught our consulting classes and our capstone,

which I think of as the thesis for our masters. And I remember,

I'm going to take you back to a class where we were doing, uh, values exercise.

And I had done this in corporate before. So,

I was in a leadership training piece and they would hand out these,

I think it was 50 cards.

I don't think we used it in the class and on the cards they have values.

And the values are things like being promoted, being in leadership, um,

hitting my numbers, but there's other competing values. Um,

family work-life balance, being part of my community.

And I don't know if you remember this particular exercise or not,

but there was probably 28 of us in the class,

and I can fairly say I was the oldest person in the cohort.

And I had come out of +20 years of experience.

And I am part of this West Michigan work hard culture,

whole nother part podcast. We're going to talk about work identification,

but if you recall, um,

we sussed down all the values and the idea was to get to one.

And then you asked people to share their values. And we kind of did a poll.

And I remember

the surprise on your face when out of the cohort of 28, 27,

people picked what I would call non-business oriented values.

The most important thing to me in life is family time.

The most important thing to me in life is work-life balance.

The most important thing to me is giving back to my community.

The most important thing to me is charity.

And one person in the cohort had picked,

I want to be the CEO or the leader or whatever.

And I think it's a change in the, in the culture.

And I think the pandemic has exacerbated it for our students and our

professionals. What's your take now

on the student who wants work-life balance,

but wants to be the CEO? Yeah.

So, I'm the worst person on earth to ask this question.

No,

I think you're the best person to ask this question because you've been there

and done that.

And you just described how work-life balance for an executive,

and I had a chance, I didn't become an executive,

but I was right hand for a lot of people.

And I know when I left the office and they were there,

and I know when they were there before I was,

and I remember I wasn't driving them to the conference because I was their

driver. It was because they were on three phones at once solving the problems.

And they didn't go to, you know, they had to compartmentalize. So

do a reality check for us then of what you see.

Oh... So,

I preface this conversation when students ask me this MBA students, whomever,

um, that my experience will not be yours because I,

I have, um, a very, very high capacity for work, though.

I worked all the time. Um,

I remember sitting in a restaurant one time with my little kids,

and this was pre like, I'm going to sound like the oldest person on earth,

but pre cell phones. Like, my beeper.

And my little guy says to me, mom, I'll give you five bucks if you'll like,

put that beeper away. But that was my kid's life. You know,

you were on a beeper, you were on a pager-, whatever you were always on.

And so the perspective that I have about work-life balance and

still trying to get to their ball games.

And I can remember flying home one Thursday night,

my son had a basketball game and I said to the cab driver,

I don't care how you get me there,

but I need to be to this school in an hour because I will miss that game.

And he didn't take me home. I get out of the cab, I've got my luggage,

I've got my briefcase, and I'm running in to try to watch my son's game.

That was the reality that I lived in. And you're not not working.

And I think it's hard for me to have that conversation with other people because

I was taught that you arrive before your boss. You leave after your boss. Um,

I was taught that you work until the job is done. You know, I was taught,

you know,

the things that I was raised on in terms of my business ethics,

um, not even ethics, business values, um, are different today.

The expectations are different. When I led people,

did I expect them to work like that? No.

I wanted them to have work-life balance. In fact,

I would do anything I possibly could to help them not live that same

life that I necessarily did. Um,

but I would be curious for you to interview people that are leading

organizations today, particularly leading the, you know,

where are we now, the Gen Zers,

and kind of see how those discussions go.

Because I just read an article the other day that the new work week is 34 hours

a week. That's part-time to me. You know,

I don't understand a 34-hour work week. I understand a 60-to-70-hour work week.

So, it's very,

that's why I said I'm the worst person on earth to talk with about this. Um,

because I, I don't, I, I don't resonate necessarily,

or I don't connect with the idea of 34 hours being full-time.

So, I, I don't know if that's good or bad.

And I'm not saying that the only way to become an executive is to work sixty-.

No. There's lots of paths to be able to get there. But I love work.

I love to work. I love the outcomes of work.

I love to find, you know,

hit a challenging P and L I love to outsmart people

to just do better than they can, that is all super motivating to me. So,

I, I, it never felt like, man,

I like I've worked 70 hours this week. I'm, I'm ready to just kick it in.

Never felt that way. It was just not my wiring.

So, the students today that are listening or,

or the professional today who are listening,

who are thinking about this and they run into,

or they go to the office and they're working for people of our generation, um,

I consider myself lucky to have a golden parachute to come to academia to have a

different work life.

Because what you described is very similar to how I operated in business.

And they are going to have that one-on-one time with the boss.

How do they balance between today, it's called imposter syndrome,

but it's going to the boss and saying,

work is the only thing I want to do when they don't want to do that.

But they want to be leadership because they want to provide value and they're

concerned.

Because I would be concerned if I went to the boss and the first thing I said

was, hey Leslie, I'm really concerned about my work-life balance.

And you have one slot to fill in your promotion, and who do you pick?

Do you pick the person that says I love work?

Or do you pick the person that says, you know, maybe has some more balance,

less likely to burn out? What's your advice for today? Knowing that your, your,

your voyage may vary.

So I had a discussion with someone kind of about this topic,

I'm going to say a year ago. So, it was closer to post-COVID. Um,

people were still working from home almost a hundred percent.

It wasn't even still hybrid at that time.

And the discussion on the table came to not wanting to come back to the

office. So, okay.

Then the conversation led to who's going to get promoted.

And I asked that question. I said, so you are now the boss. You,

uh, you work in the office every single day.

You've got an employee that is sitting by you every single day,

taking on tough tasks, raising their hand, getting work done,

delivering it to you in-person.

And you've got somebody sitting at home perhaps doing similar work,

perhaps delivering just as great outcomes.

And the next opportunity for the promotion is coming up.

Who do you think gets that job? So, I will leave that to your listeners.

Who do you think is going to get that job? Um, I, I,

my opinion perhaps is going to be the person that has been my right-hand

sitting next to me delivering work, having really interesting connection,

conversations,

building personal relationships and a bond with me wiring together to get really

tough stuff done. My guess is I'm going there.

So now am I a boomer? I am the tail end of the boomers.

You can have all sorts of arguments or dialogue around that tail-end boomer and

how we're wired. But tail-end boomers are still running a lot of companies.

Absolutely.

So, I'm not sure we're ready to say the boomers have to all leave.

I, I have a similar conversation with a couple of mentees probably each year.

And I say, I can't judge to you whether or not the culture is right or not.

All I can tell you is that people of my age are running companies right now and

making decisions based on how the culture was wired for us.

And when people get stressed, they go back to what they know.

We talk about this in the PVA about your secondary style and your primary style

and how stressors make and/or exacerbate your ability to do that. So,

you brought up an interesting point now that I hit you with a hard ball.

Now I'll toss you a softball. And it's a two-part question.

The first part is,

how does a student today who is post-COVID,

was isolated for two years in a fight or flight fear

situation, didn't have that safety net. So,

I feel like that happened in '08 for graduates.

It happened to me in '98 with our recession then when I graduated from Grand

Valley undergrad. How do they practice and learn what I call,

we used to call these soft skills, now we call them human skills.

I am branding social scripts. So, if you hear that out, there's,

I think I said it, said it first.

How does this student practice social scripting and learn how to have these

conversations?

Yes. Such a great question. So, I hope, I hope,

I hope that students find in their way through Grand

Valley all of the opportunities that a college should offer,

that safe space to learn and practice these skills. It's,

it's everywhere around us. You just have to go find it. Um, so young women,

for example, that are like, I don't have assertiveness and I,

I'm super scared to go do- there is a wonderful young women's business group

from Seidman that just, go join them.

Women in business.

Women in business, go join them. It's not that hard? You, you know,

you can sit in the back corner,

know- you don't have to talk to anybody for the first five meetings,

but go do it. You know, there are,

so there's professors that are amazing here that have all the time,

like hopefully to make that one-on-one connection with the students and just sit

down and talk with them. So,

I think you've got to find that space within this to me,

or go volunteer somewhere. You know, those are your safe places in my opinion.

You can't get fired from a volunteer opportunity.

So go find those places where you can develop those skills,

those human skills. The social script. Uh, I,

I've used this. It's not mine. I'm not sure even who said it. Uh,

you are going to get your job accounting student,

you're going to get your first accounting role because you're a great

accountant, you've been a good student, you get good grades,

you're going to go get a great accounting job.

You are not going to be promoted because you have really,

really wonderful accounting skills.

You're going to be promoted because you have demonstrated great team skills,

because you have demonstrated great empathy, vulnerability.

People want to work with you. Um,

you have demonstrated all those social skills that you should be

developing while you're in school. And whether it's a good, you know,

for a professor to say,

when I was hiring people and way more interested in how you

have developed your social skills in college, um, as I am in your GPA.

Not that the GPA is not important. It can be a foot in the door,

but it is not going to get you the job. It will get you in the door.

So, I, I hope that students take advantage of all, everything. There's so much,

so much stuff to do.

Phil Sims mentor told him and he shared with us on this program,

and I, I love this dichotomy of thought again of Phil and I. He said,

attached to every opportunity is a human.

I think that's a very introverted way of thinking.

Because I always think every human is an opportunity.

That's an extroverted way of thinking. But I love that and I love what you said.

So, um,

professor Kevin Leonard sat in that chair and you have heard me say this in your

classes when you've let me come and speak.

Office hours are so underrated. And if, if anybody listening,

if you're a student at Seidman and you've tried to meet with a professor and

failed, I want to talk to you. Because I don't know of any faculty,

and um, I love people and I try to make connections.

Because we're a volunteer program, so we have a shoestring. So,

I'm always looking for support,

of people like yourself to come in and give their time.

Everybody here wants to help you.

They might not be able to help you immediately or meet with you tomorrow,

but they're going to meet with you and they're going to spend time with you.

We're all interested in that.

There is an altruism here in academia that

stupefies me as a businessperson sometimes because nobody asked me what the ROI

was. Nobody asked me what the RONA was.

I don't get asked the things that you trained me to look for in my analysis of,

of my master's in business.

But that's freeing because we try things

and the conversation I think is, I think this is good for students. Okay,

let's do it. Right. That's amazing. So this idea, I love your,

uh, definition kind of, how I feel our culture should be.

Bob Stole my mentor here in undergrad for 30 years.

Just because they have a door on their office doesn't mean that you can't go

talk to them. And I love that idea. So this is the second half of the question.

I think you've answered part of it, but it might be more specific.

What do you wish that students would do that they don't do?

Well, office hours is an easy one. You know,

have you ever been to the third floor? You know, just walk up the steps,

you know, just get out on the floor and just go discover what's there. So,

because it's a treasure trove of faculty that truly does care.

You're talking about where we hide our faculty on the third floor-.

-I guess so-.

-I have described it before as a, uh, pet shelter.

Yeah, please come and see us.

Yeah, they're,

they're there during office hours waiting to be adopted by you just to spend a

little time together. That's-.

-But it's always scary-.

-I've sat in office hours too and we post office hours and then nobody shows up.

I know. And I'm trying to leave that like,

it's not a productive part of my day as far as tactical work I have to do.

I'm hoping students come to visit. Because that's the work. And for me,

it's such a touchstone.

I get a lot of office hours because then you can tell me,

I get a judge of what we're doing. Is it right or not? Yeah.

It's the equivalent on the ship of looking at the compass and making sure we're

on course.

If I don't touch base with a student and I'm up there by myself making

decisions,

that's why I have mentors with diversities of thought to try to figure out are

we doing this right? Yeah.

The, I I,

I am always surprised at how few students actually hit the third floor.

But to me that's just-. I'm not, however, I will say my,

if I think back of my college student self,

never in a million years would I have ever gone to a professor's office

and I went to a tiny little school for undergrad.

So, sell our introverts, sell our introverts who are listening on why-.

-How would, how do I do it?

Why, yeah, why and how?

Why and how I, you know,

I to meet those introverts needs me. I, I know how I do it.

Sometimes I just tell them, you know, it's time for us to get together.

You know, I'd love to meet you. Or often with an introvert, they're,

they are a little more comfortable on Zoom and you don't have to come and sit

face to face. You do not have to come to the third floor. Let's hit Starbucks.

You know, I meet my students at Starbucks all the time. Um,

let's just grab a Zoom call and do that. So sometimes it's just,

you know,

enough of just getting myself in front of those students a little bit because

they just need a gentle nudge.

And I think once you start to build that relationship...

I had a student the other day on that had graduated three or four years ago that

I saw on the third floor and got a chance to catch up with him. I,

so I think we as professors, we have to be good at that too,

because we have to recognize that it,

it would've taken a monsoon in college to get me to

move in the direction of a faculty office. So,

I just would never have done that.

And I have students that say I would never have done it.

I do the same thing when I ask them,

why don't more of you ask me for letters of recommendation?

A handful do take advantage of that. Um, but not many. It's like,

if you do great work in my class,

you have earned an opportunity for me to write a letter of recommendation for

you. And some I, I get to every semester, I have a couple,

but a couple out of how many students would I have if I have a full undergrad

suite, a hundred and....

Thirty?

Thirty students that semester? I don't know. I think they could do, you know,

just ask.

I love how, um, when I've been a,

a guest speaker in your class and I know you require it,

but you get thank you notes and you have the students hand write thank you

notes. I think this is one of the most powerful weapons. Um,

we have culturally and I,

it's still a small town business kind of thing.

If you go to an interview and you're not carrying that thank you card in your

pocket,

I just had a meeting right before this podcast and I was talking to a colleague

and she's like, I never sent the thank you card. Because it gets there too late.

Not that the thank you card is how you get the job, but nobody does it.

So if you have that in your pocket and you either hand it to the administrative

assistant on your way out, you don't necessarily have to hand it to the person.

But maybe that works too. But I read those right?

And I can tell the difference between the students we impacted the ones we

didn't. And for me, and this might be part of my introversion emerging,

I keep those.

And when I have a bad day and I wonder why I'm doing what I'm doing,

I get my little box of thank you cards out and I read a few right?

And it recharges me and reminds me.

Because some of the myriad of stuff that we do, um, is, you know,

the morass of the things that we have to do. But that's part of the job.

But I remember why and it recharges me for that. So,

I really love that you do that and I totally recommend that people bring that

back because I remember a couple thank you emails or a phone call.

That's a big thing too. Because it rarely happens.

I'm talking about a real voice call. Um, that's a big deal.

I just read an article in the journal the other day about what Zers

don't like about boomers. And one of them was that we make,

place annoying phone calls, which I find so hilarious. So,

because it is a way to just pick up the phone and say, hey,

can you help me with something? Um, on the thank you note,

I am pretty certain that Amazon thinks that I must write hundreds of thank you

notes every year. But I buy a ton of them.

Our students do write them when we have speakers in,

when we have somebody to thank,

I want them to practice writing handwritten thank you notes.

I will have people always say, yeah, I don't care about thank you notes. Okay,

that's, that's fine,

but you're going to get them anyway because we are going to practice that as a

skill because it is a talent.

And I have used them to help me make hiring

decisions. So, if people think that they don't add value, I'm, I,

I assure you that they do.

If I have two very equally qualified candidates and I just can't make a

decision, I'm adding value to that handwritten thank you note.

If it's a thank you. It was nice to meet you. I hope to hear from you soon.

That one is a pitch. If it's a,

I really appreciated the way we connected about the culture of the organization

and I'm so excited to be a part of that because I know I can learn and grow with

you. That's very different.

Did everybody write that down? Did everybody write that one down?

It makes a difference.

And don't let Chat GPT write your yours because actually, uh, recently, um,

somebody on my staff, I asked to um,

them to write a email and they sent it to me, uh,

to proofread before we sent it out to the mentorship.

And I read it and I wrote the, the individual back and I said,

this needs to be an executive summary.

This isn't business writing and this isn't like you. And they confessed to me.

Well I had Chat GPT write this and I was proud of myself that I could,

I could recognize it. Um,

so don't do that because Professor Lynch and I can recognize that.

I want to go back to your phone call thing because I want to,

I want to do a call out.

So recently somebody approached me with a very unique opportunity for students

and it was a singular opportunity and I asked, uh,

some people to put together some of our best students from mentorship.

And it was time sensitive. So,

I called and if you're the person who has a voicemail box that is not

set up or full, which we all know is facetious now, right?

That means you just don't want to get voicemails. That

you did not get that opportunity. I,

I called students who I couldn't leave a voicemail for and it was time

sensitive. So, I was onto the next student. That turns me off.

I don't know how you feel about it and maybe I'm half-boomer. Um,

but I don't like that.

And I typically will not leave a voicemail unless it's pertinent. Um,

but it's unlikely you and I are going to text something that's,

maybe it's impactful. Now need yes or no decisions.

But I know I believe at one point in the course in professional development,

we talked about communication and what is appropriate for what. Um,

you got to have a voicemail if you're going to be a business student.

Well, and there's different types of communication for different things.

It's like, I, I'm an introvert, text me,

please don't call because I may not want to talk with you right now,

but there are things that you need to call me for. So-.

-Well at least let me leave you a voicemail.

At least leave a voicemail.

So you have to understand the appropriateness of the different

vehicles of communication and be available to all of them.

Because my team of people that work on my team are all

wired differently and it's not their job to adapt to me.

I always felt it was my job to be able to lean into their preferences.

And that could be that they need to call me.

It could be that they need to text me,

it could be that they're going to email me.

I always felt it was my job to be available to all of that. Like it or not.

The, uh, marketing department, um, who I enjoy spending time with,

probably because it's a lot of extroverts,

but they broke down marketing into this phrase. And that phrase is,

"make it as easy as possible for people to give you money".

I feel the same way if you're a business student out there,

make it as easy as possible for people to do business with you.

And so if the client, if, if you want to think of yourself as a client,

that's fine, but you want to enter this business field,

business didn't call you and ask you, you chose business. So,

there's a certain amount of table stakes. We're playing poker.

That's the money we have to put in the middle before we can play the game.

Right? So I, I think that's your professional dress.

I think that's your communication. If they want a voicemail, call you.

If they want a zoom call, whatever it is, be open to all those things.

If you want to join that. Now,

if you are a raging entrepreneur and you're going to come out and do business in

a new way that we've never seen before, yeah, you are welcome to do that.

I'm not saying you can't,

but for the majority of us who join another business,

you uh, make that fit and culture. And the,

the the final question I want to pitch to you,

because we have talked about this in our, our mentorship relationship.

And I've asked your advice on this before and I'd love your answers,

is how important is that fit?

I'm thinking for the the new employee. So when you're having that interview,

they're interviewing you because they want to see if you're a good fit for the

organization. But how important is it for you as the individual to identify,

understand your fit and if this is something you want to do?

Yeah. It's, it's both.

So I'll speak with my hat on from the employer's perspective. First,

there's a lot of discussion on the table due to the current employment

environment of fit, not mattering that we just need bodies, get them in here,

they're going to churn, but we don't care. We just need people to come in and,

and do the work. And I get that.

I mean there is an aspect of the reality of staffing our

organizations. However, I was raised unfit. And um,

I need to make sure that you've got the technical skills to do the job.

I need to make sure all of those things. But at the end of all of that,

as the employer,

I want to make sure this is a good fit for you and that you are a good fit for

us. And that takes a little bit more work on the interviewing side because you

really have to, here's the good,

bad and the ugly and let's really talk about what this is going to look like.

And, and um, I, I think we have to be open to those conversations.

So I personally believe that fit is really important. As an example,

when I first started, well, not early in my, early in my career, I was,

um, interviewing for a position and had made it through the interview process,

was interviewing with the CEO and what would've been the COO of that company.

And my kids had given me a Tasmanian devil watch that I loved.

Because I love the Tasmanian devil. It works fast.

It's all the things that I love.

And I remember I had like my little suit on just like I was supposed to and went

in and I must have moved or he, anyway, he saw my watch and the CEO says to me,

we'd love to have you come work here, but you,

I never want to see that watch again. Okay.

That was an important part of their culture.

That was a very well-healed organization.

We were always dressed exactly how we were supposed to be dressed.

And for some people they may have said,

I'm wearing the watch I want to wear and there's no way you're going-,

well then don't go work there. You know, that just makes so much sense to me.

But I thought, I want to work for this company. I'm going to work with smart,

talented people that are all going to be smarter than me.

I'm going to have to work harder every single day to be better.

That's super motivating. So I'm like, I don't care about my watch,

I'll wear it to the ball game,

but I'm going to put my nice fancy one on when I come into work. So that's fit.

And I, I do think that we have to decide whether, you know,

whether we, how important fit is to us.

I am not the type of per,- I'm kind of an all-in kind of person.

So if I go to work, um, at a company, I'm kind of all in.

And if some people don't feel that way, they can just go in, flip a switch,

turn it off, go home. Um,

but I think culture matters to an organization and my fit within that culture

also matters more. So as an executive of course.

For sure. Man, there's there's 72 other things, but I,

I just got to hold them because we're running out of time. Um, I hear you.

And the last transition that I made to academia,

I was always obsessed with,

can I pay my bills? Can I meet my financial goals? Can I get the next thing?

What was interesting is when I think about working hard,

that was a big part of the culture of my generation and my time.

Now that I don't make as much money as I used to,

but I don't work hard anymore. I work more caring.

I work more lovingly. I love the work that I do. I'm a different person.

Because when I worked, you heard work hard, play hard.

I had to play hard because the stress level of my work

required some sort of balance on the other end.

And not all of that was positive. Did I have financial success? I did.

I said it before. I'll say it again.

People aren't going to remember how much money you made.

They're going to remember how you made them feel. You've made me feel welcome.

Uh, you've made me feel prepared, uh, for this piece.

Grand Valley is very fortunate to have you and I consider myself extremely

fortunate to have you as a mentor. Um, I love that you're,

we call it affiliative practice. And to me that is, you're,

you came from doing the thing we all want to do and I just really appreciate

that and your relevance, your stories that you,

you opened the class with of this is what really happened.

You took the gloves off and said this is, you know, business in,

in the raw and these are the hard challenges that you're going to face in

business. And we're just so fortunate to have that, um, from you.

So thank you on behalf of Grand Valley. Uh,

thank you on behalf of the mentorship program and thank you for me, um,

for just being a very impactful instructor and person in my life.

We just appreciate you so much.

Very kind. Thank you for having me.

I hope you'll come back and join us again. Uh, despite the amount of energy, uh,

you have to expend to do it.

That's right. I live in a log cabin. I'm headed home. I'm all good.

Professor Leslie Lynch, thank you very much.

Yep. Thanks for having me.

Thank you for sailing along on this episode of the Seidman Mentorship Podcast.

For more information on the Seidman School of Business Mentorship Program at

Grand Valley State University, set your heading to

www.gvsu.edu/seidman.

If you have a story to tell, know someone we should interview,

have questions or comments, email us at go, the number two,

GV biz, spelled b i z, @gvsu.edu.

Until next time, keep a weathered eye on the horizon and we wish you fair winds.

So long.