00:00:05:04 - 00:00:32:07
Unknown
Welcome, everybody to the Real Growth podcast here at Realty Growth Headquarters is located at 416 South Broadway in Rochester, Minnesota. Today, I am super excited to have a very special guest for many reasons, not only because I'm obsessed with his business, but I'm really interested to learn a little bit more about this individual. So today we have Will Foresman, owner operating partner, barista, also fashionista.

00:00:32:07 - 00:00:53:16
Unknown
And we'll get into that because I remember an article, but we can get into that. Why he said that later but welcome Will to the Real Growth podcast. Thank you so much for being a part of this. Thank you very much. And you know, we appreciate getting an opportunity to share on an on a new platform. And you guys are interviewing some really cool folks all the time and have always been, you know, a little bit envious, right?

00:00:53:16 - 00:01:09:07
Unknown
You know, because you see people on on here and you're like, gosh, it'd be really cool to be on on that podcast. I appreciate. Well, here we are and I'm really excited to have Will here. Like I said, this is awesome. Now I'm nervous. Oh, gosh. Well, don't be nervous. We got this. So I guess the very first question.

00:01:09:07 - 00:01:33:06
Unknown
Well, let's tell us a little bit about your journey growing up and how you got into this business, I guess. Yeah. And I think one of the other big questions I get is, you know what? I did your school for business. Yeah, well, yeah. And I'm one of the rare exceptions, I think to this, or at least, you know, an advocate for the fact that you can learn a lot of things by yourself.

00:01:33:06 - 00:01:53:18
Unknown
You do have to make a lot of mistakes, but a little bit of the back story to myself. I'm what you would call the operating owner for Cafe Steam and our sister company, Callaway Coffee Roasters, in partnership with my business partners, Kara Garcia, Nathan Staff, Hunter Downs and Traci Downs, and who are an integral part to to our success.

00:01:53:18 - 00:02:14:29
Unknown
And I call upon daily with my question. So in that sense there's a lot of there's that mentorship that that I've been able to pull from in, in my history of business ownership. But I got my start. You know, I'd gone the normal route and gone to college and got kind of got halfway through and realized this is kind of a waste of not only my parent's money but my time.

00:02:14:29 - 00:02:44:02
Unknown
And I wasn't doing anything that I really had a passion for and that I felt was was benefiting, you know, my my personal journey through life. You know, everybody has an obligation to be able to explore the versions of themselves that they find fulfilling. So come back from school. I was in a traveling band for a while, and as many find out, that is not as financially sustainable as you'd like and realized I needed to pick up a job at at somewhere.

00:02:44:02 - 00:03:01:01
Unknown
And my my guitarist had had a, a, a solo gig at the coffee shop that existed prior to Cafe City, which is called Pressed many years ago. Oh, sure. Yeah. Yeah. I was interested in coffee. I thought it was a really cool place cause Rochester didn't have another brick and mortar coffee shop, and it seemed to be the place where everything was happening.

00:03:01:01 - 00:03:17:22
Unknown
All the cool people were hanging out there, and you could get cool drinks and talk to people and just have a real conversation with them. And I asked, you know, if they were hiring and they said yes, but only for a dishwasher. And so I was just said, you know, I want to jump into it. This is I've got not clearly got nothing else going on.

00:03:17:24 - 00:03:41:01
Unknown
So I started there, you know, now had didn't have many hours. I think I was working 12 to 15 hours a week. But I was I was hungry. I could feel it in myself that I wanted to be able to do more. Eventually moved up through the ranks to barista manager and eventually in that transition from press to Cafe Steam was able to take on, you know, an ownership position in in the new company.

00:03:41:01 - 00:04:01:16
Unknown
So it was a lot of fate and or whatever you want to call it that that allowed me to be able to move into that ownership position. Luck, I think, is is 99% of it. You hope that you have a good head on your shoulders to be able to recognize when an opportunity comes around that you should, you know, latch on to it.

00:04:01:16 - 00:04:30:00
Unknown
But it still takes a lot of work, even though even if you are lucky, you know, for sure. So when would have that been Will When you got ownership. So there was I think it was I want to say, 2016. So I was not one of the original owner of Cafe Steam, Kayak, Garcia, Nate, Staff, Hunter and Tracy all all saw that there was a a foothold to maintain in the previous coffee shop that had existed.

00:04:30:07 - 00:04:55:27
Unknown
There was one other other owner who was interested in transitioning out, had other companies that they were interested in. I was able to pick up those their shares. And so it was just kind of one of those things where I think they recognized in me that, you know, I had a passion for it and wanted to continue and it allowed me some skin in the game so that I was, you know, now more dedicated than I was previous, you know, for sure.

00:04:55:27 - 00:05:10:24
Unknown
And I think oftentimes that's how people do actually get into ownership, especially as a young entrepreneur such as yourself. Right? Because in the beginning we don't it you just don't have any money or anything like that. And so it's how do you become a partner? And I think that's a it's also a learning thing for people out there that are listening to this.

00:05:10:24 - 00:05:24:27
Unknown
Like because I know a lot of people say, well, I just I don't necessarily want to be an employee all the time. I also would like to have the ability to have ownership. Well, this is the perfect way to do it that oftentimes people will look and say, well, you can become the operating partner and you'll have some skin in the game, then be an owner.

00:05:24:27 - 00:05:48:10
Unknown
So I think that's really cool. The other thing that I noticed is and this is I feel very important partially because of the things that my dad taught me in business. You learned from the bottom. You learned every facet of the business. And I remember my dad, oh, I was in high school and he I was like, Oh, I'm interested in hotels.

00:05:48:10 - 00:06:05:05
Unknown
My dad said, okay, Nick, if if you want to be good at hotels. And I was like, Well, I don't even know what that means, but if you want to be good at hotels and no hotels, he said, you need to understand every part of the business. And so I did. I did housekeeping for two months, I did maintenance, I did front desk because that's what I was usually doing.

00:06:05:05 - 00:06:26:05
Unknown
And then when I graduated from college, I was kind of like, You will I what? I was a history major. I didn't know what the heck I was going to do. But then I learned the management side of things and that is so critical. I feel like especially when you're running your own business because you understand then what it takes and if you have to jump in, you're not afraid to jump in.

00:06:26:07 - 00:06:48:08
Unknown
So I think that's really cool. So maybe let's talk about that a little bit. Yeah. You know, working as a dishwasher, what were some of the things that that you learned? Right. Part of it is, is you have to work for some really awful people sometimes to recognize what it takes to be a good employer. I've worked in construction jobs.

00:06:48:10 - 00:07:11:09
Unknown
I've worked pizza shops, I've worked as a dishwasher outside of, you know, my my role. You know, at the very beginning in college, I was I was a dishwasher and I've worked in some really bad environments. And there are two, two kind of avenues that an individual can take from from that point. It's either you can come to expect that that's at whatever work environment you're ever going to be in is like.

00:07:11:15 - 00:07:30:05
Unknown
I mean, that can be not very motivating when you're trying to, you know, gain entry into the workforce. The other avenues that you can come to have a higher expectation of those around you as a result. And in thinking like, well, if I'm ever in this position someday, I know that I'm not going to do X, Y, Z.

00:07:30:08 - 00:07:50:17
Unknown
And I think I, I think I took more of the, you know, the secondary route where I'm really just trying to be a better version of all of those leaders that I'd had I'd had previously. And, you know, I can't comment for, you know, every facet of my position that I'm you know, there are obviously areas in which it I hope to improve in that sense.

00:07:50:17 - 00:08:17:08
Unknown
But you have to understand every part of your business. I mean, I, I know what you know. I know when the milk or, you know, orders arrive it because I know how to do it, how to wash the dishes and how to do every single part because I lived those positions for years and work those positions and spend thousands of hours doing, you know, some of the simplest tasks.

00:08:17:08 - 00:08:37:12
Unknown
And that provides you a and a vantage point to know when your staff really are encountering some difficult things. I think there is a huge mistake, miscommunication, oftentimes with business owners and their staff, because they have no idea what it is that their staff are going through. And so they'll bring up, you know, sticking points or issues and be like, Hey, I really need some help with this.

00:08:37:12 - 00:08:54:00
Unknown
And managers ownership can be very, you know, brush them off and be like, that's that's kind of a new problem or that's something that you need to take care of and that makes people feel really unsupported. And so your turnover rate gets a lot becomes a lot higher and you find that you're having to replace staff. You know, you just have this revolving door.

00:08:54:00 - 00:09:19:01
Unknown
And so our retention, you know, is higher than, than other coffee shops. And yeah, and so I'm super thankful for that to be to have that perspective. And so it's almost it's almost necessary if you're going to be, you know, not successful. Obviously, people do so without without having gone through that and are successful. But I find that it just gives a whole more whole picture to the know entire.

00:09:19:07 - 00:09:39:27
Unknown
And I think you're right. And I also think there's a level of respect to well, that comes with that. Right. And when you're actually in it, doing it and truly understanding what your employees are, what the employees go through and what their jobs are and how hard and difficult is. When that happened, I had such a incredible amount of respect for what is done and how difficult it is.

00:09:39:27 - 00:09:54:24
Unknown
Yeah, and I think that goes along with it. And then vice versa, they say, Wow, this guy, he's getting his hands dirty and he's willing to do whatever it takes. And I find myself still, not all the time, but when I go to the hotels, if someone needs help behind the front desk, I'll do it. Yeah. There's no shame.

00:09:54:24 - 00:10:22:15
Unknown
Will it? It's actually fun. I actually really enjoy that aspect of it and I. That's what I love, honestly. Well, I'm not just saying this, but like, when I come to Cafe Steam, I see you almost every morning usually. And if your staff needs help, you just get right in there and help. And it's it it in my opinion, it is one of the biggest factors of showing a healthy culture.

00:10:22:15 - 00:10:48:18
Unknown
And in a healthy business is when you see owners such as yourselves just helping out. And I think that does a lot for morale. And once again, I think it really helps the employees really respect you and say, God, this guy is really cool because I can say you're guys, this culture is awesome. Yeah, it's really awesome. We're pretty culture heavy, and sometimes that comes as a detriment of the business, I'll be honest, because, you know, you can kind of get in your own head about how things can be run it.

00:10:48:18 - 00:11:23:16
Unknown
It moves so far away from a corporate model to where and we have some rigidity in how we structure ourselves in just training and so on. But you know that that culture is what people are there for. I was just in Chicago for a few days and the, you know, those franchises that are really corporate and, you know, you know, you can go in and get the same product every single time or but you're having these very rigid interactions with the folks that are taking your order, etc..

00:11:23:19 - 00:11:47:09
Unknown
It was on this block of of there were five franchises and one locally owned shop, and it was one run by this one one guy this at this locally owned place was called Cafe 53. Each one of those storefronts from the franchise were totally empty. And this was this is Chicago. This is Hyde Park, Chicago. There are thousands of people that go in and you go into this cafe 53, this small, you know, run by one guy.

00:11:47:12 - 00:12:09:10
Unknown
And it was there had to have been 20 people in line. And he was in there taking orders by himself, having a conversation with somebody. It wasn't, you know, well manicured. It it looked it looked like hell in a lot of a lot of areas. And it it you know, clearly it was lived in. Right. But people loved it because he served a good product.

00:12:09:17 - 00:12:38:15
Unknown
But he also had that interface of like this is something very unique and it's like a fingerprint. And you could not take what he was doing there and put it somewhere else, which is really difficult. And I think I actually kind of want to touch on that a little bit. Well, because I think it's really interesting. You know, for the longest time, I think in businesses specifically, I mean, we see it in a lot of things, whether it's coffee shops, restaurants, hotels, the franchise model, and how for a very long time that was KING.

00:12:38:17 - 00:13:04:25
Unknown
But I've seen just I can only speak from the hotel standpoint, a shift, right? Boutique hotel. Yes, that's right. I think it's I think it's I think it's very interesting. And do you feel from your opinion, is that like a generational thing where it's like, oh, I want something unique and something local and something different or it's just I don't know, or is it just something that people were craving and we just never had that opportunity to create something like this.

00:13:04:27 - 00:13:46:28
Unknown
I think it's a mix of just the cultural relativism that is moving away from cookie cutter things or really heavily manicured presentation. And you can see this in a number of different ways where, you know, businesses are moving away from these, like they're on their social media platforms, getting away from these really inorganic representations of their company that aren't really showing a true experience to now just taking photos on your phone, on your cell phone, and showing what what life really is like and at these businesses, because it builds that connection as we've moved towards as historically, as you've mentioned over the last few decades, a lot of those franchises had become successful.

00:13:46:28 - 00:14:10:01
Unknown
But now they're having problems because they're they're losing that soul. All right? They don't they don't have that same level of just emotional investment in their businesses. And that gets really hard. Why that changes has shifted. I don't I don't know exactly, but I think it's because people recognize the importance for that of that that genuine connection with the businesses that they're spending money on.

00:14:10:06 - 00:14:31:06
Unknown
And maybe it is because you're spending your money somewhere, you want to know that it's not going to some bigwig CEO and people are trying to think more ethically in their in their personal investments, things are becoming more expensive. Cost of living is increasing exponentially. And now every time we spend a dollar, we want to make sure that we're not only providing for the product that we're purchasing, but the experience of that product.

00:14:31:06 - 00:14:50:06
Unknown
Yeah, and that's exactly what I was going to say too, is that you won't find me going to I'm not just saying this to a caribou or a Starbucks to to sit down and have a cup of coffee. I don't I don't find it inviting. I don't it's not what I envision in my mind what a coffee house or a coffee place should be.

00:14:50:06 - 00:15:13:13
Unknown
And once again, I'm no coffee connoisseur. I actually just started drinking coffee about eight years ago. And I'll tell you that story because it's actually pretty funny. But what you have created, in my opinion, is exactly what I envision a coffee house to be. You guys have created an inclusive community that is open to everybody. It's super relaxed.

00:15:13:15 - 00:15:37:15
Unknown
I oftentimes find myself going there will two times a day to not only have, in my opinion, the best coffee I've ever had. And once again, I'm no connoisseur, but I truly believe that. But just a place where I can go and like you said, talk to someone or just see someone be around people. It's a lively it's it is truly a cool place to be.

00:15:37:15 - 00:16:06:09
Unknown
You guys have really created in my is something really, really special. Yeah and honestly that that's it's so wonderful to here because on this side you're often you're in the mud right you're you're you're digging through it it's really hard to have the the in the customer perspective in a lot of sense which is where that valuable feedback that you often get from from people like, hey, have you considered this guy kind of thing.

00:16:06:11 - 00:16:30:02
Unknown
It's really refreshing to hear because oftentimes and this is for most small business, so it's you can even tend to only see the bad. And it's not like there's something bad with the company, but you're often you're the one paying, paying the bills, you're the one getting the invoices every single day. You're the one, you know, having to deal with, you know, any number of things that might be the unattractive parts of of business ownership.

00:16:30:02 - 00:16:47:29
Unknown
So the hope is that your output and that that sweat equity that you're putting into into your business is then going to be enjoyed by somebody. And that's something that's experienced by chefs, it's experienced by the breezes, is that you're creating a product that's that brings joy to somebody. And it's not just the coffee, but it's that experience that you're that you're having.

00:16:48:01 - 00:17:15:13
Unknown
But it's coffee shops are one of the few places where you can sit down and have a genuine conversation with somebody. It's almost like a diner experience where you're sitting, you know, with other people and able to interface and in a personal way. And that's something we haven't really been able to do over the last few years. And so, you know, there's a surge in in people seeking that human connection and being able to identify with somebody else.

00:17:15:16 - 00:17:40:26
Unknown
But it's something that has existed in coffee shops and cafes for 500 years, and it's what people enjoy the most about. And so as you start to move towards that corporate model, it loses a lot of that, that human connection that is so valuable to those small businesses. Yeah, and it's just been really interesting to me. Once again, not being a coffee drinker except for literally like eight years ago when I started and how big coffee has become.

00:17:40:26 - 00:17:56:14
Unknown
I remember when I was in third grade, I had my cousin lived in Seattle and sort of for Starbucks was big. I went to the very first Starbucks and it was a drive thru and I'll never forget that my parents tried it and this is before. Like I said, this is the first. There must have been like two or three Starbucks.

00:17:56:14 - 00:18:28:04
Unknown
Like there's nothing, right? And my parents became obsessed with like Starbucks coffee. And I just I remember as a kid, I was probably in second grade. I was just like, Oh, this is crazy. But my parents swore by this Starbucks coffee and then all of a sudden it exploded. But I just remember recently, probably in the last, I don't know, ten or 15 years, it's amazing, in my opinion, how quickly the the coffee business has grown, because, of course, you always had your Starbucks, you had maybe a few mom cafes, this and that, but the Folgers, that, Columbia coffee, whatever.

00:18:28:06 - 00:18:59:06
Unknown
But it really started to get commercialized. And I think what has happened in you know we are a capitalistic society, but the coffee companies have created such a did such a good job of marketing for it's for the masses, right? It's for the masses, you know, and I think it's even gotten to like, I find it really interesting that it's even gotten to like, the younger people, the younger generations where it's like, Oh, well, you know, I can't go to a bar because I'm not of age, but guess what?

00:18:59:07 - 00:19:18:21
Unknown
Yeah, I can go to a coffee shop and I can be with my friends and have a coffee. And it's just it's so interesting to me how that has gotten ingrained into our culture is, you know, coffee is it's for everybody and it's something cool and it's something fun and it's a great way to socialize and interact with your friends and family and get to know new people.

00:19:18:22 - 00:19:42:15
Unknown
Yeah, it's that it's that third place. There's this in our orientation for staff we cite. There's a short story by Ernest Hemingway called A Clean, Well-Lighted Place and it as awful as a man, Ernest Hemingway was. What he wrote was beautiful in so many ways. This short story was a dialog between an older cafe worker and a younger cafe worker.

00:19:42:18 - 00:20:09:14
Unknown
It's late at night. There's a gentleman that's his has overstayed his welcome and, you know, hasn't really bought a whole lot and is taking up space. And the younger cafe worker goes, I really wish he would he would just go home because I too would like to go home. And, you know, he isn't contributing to the environment in any way in the cafe or the other cafe worker says, well, it everybody has a right to be somewhere and everybody has a right to that third space, that clean, well-lighted place.

00:20:09:14 - 00:20:24:08
Unknown
And I think that's something that I hope to embody with the look, the, you know, the spaces that we create is that, you know, you don't need to go there for any one purpose. It is to remove requirement. So to speak, of what you need at that time. Do you need to study it? You need to meet with somebody.

00:20:24:08 - 00:20:50:18
Unknown
Do you need to, you know, a place to relax? We live in the shadow of a of, you know, a health care giant. And a lot of people need to separate themselves from that very sterile environment for something that is unique and comforting and cozy. And that's all that we're hoping to provide. And and along with, you know, a shared love of good coffee, we're not in it for some.

00:20:50:20 - 00:21:15:19
Unknown
Yeah, I'm not in it for the money. I wouldn't be here if that were the case. I don't. You know how we live. You'll end up living very modestly as a result of business ownership. And in order to, you know, move up in the world in that way and become, you know, you know, rich, rich off of it, you end up finding that those business models often take from somewhere in the.

00:21:15:21 - 00:21:36:25
Unknown
What do you see most commonly is that they're taking from their employees in the sense that their working them very hard, they're underpaid and so on. And so some small businesses and coffee shops and corporations get, you know, a bad rep for that. And that's really difficult to see. But you can tell it's because they're they're, you know, in it for perhaps the wrong reasons.

00:21:36:25 - 00:21:56:21
Unknown
They need to they need to pay you know, everybody does it for their own reasons. But I find most fulfillment doing it because I did something that I enjoy in providing these spaces for Rochester. And I think that's wonderful. And you can definitely see the passion there. Will And I think, you know, for entrepreneurs and just people in general going after your passions, I know I think you had alluded to that earlier.

00:21:56:21 - 00:22:16:12
Unknown
You know, going after your passion and really focusing on that and that makes you happy. And I think that's really great. So I kind of want to rewind it back a little bit because you so you went to college and I, like you had no formal training in business whatsoever. I had no business being in business, to be honest.

00:22:16:12 - 00:22:45:11
Unknown
Like I said, I was a history major. I didn't take any business classes at all. None, economics, nothing. Was that a similar, similar route that you took? Totally. I went. I went I remember in the what was it called? The salute. It something that end of your high school graduation. They all flash up images of the graduates and they list where they're going to college and what their majors are, Mine said North Dakota State University, majoring in witchcraft and wizardry and cutting hair.

00:22:45:11 - 00:23:05:03
Unknown
I went. I went because it was expected of you, my parents and I love my parents to death. They were putting me on the right course. I wish I had spent more time and energy focusing on an education. I would probably be, you know, a lot wealthier than I am today as a result. But I didn't see the purpose in it.

00:23:05:03 - 00:23:36:17
Unknown
And if you as you've learned, all had no lack of a willingness to to learn that which I felt was important to me and brought benefit to my life. And it's hard to tell, you know, an 18 year old that. Sure, yes, studying anthropology is important to the well-being of your future life. I would I would encourage anybody who to seek higher education if that is what they're interested in and if that's what they think will bring fulfillment to them.

00:23:36:17 - 00:23:56:21
Unknown
But even heading into it, I wasn't. I didn't my heart wasn't in it. And I think I realized early on enough that I was I was not into it so that I didn't get to that four year degree. And now you're saddled with student loans and all these things that are like, Shoot, how am I going to apply this to an actual work environment, which is really difficult?

00:23:56:21 - 00:24:14:14
Unknown
And there's a change in the the economy and expectations for colleges so that people are going for more deliberate degrees, but more and more power to them. You've got folks that are, you know, in these degrees that are not workforce related. So, you know, it might be philosophy, it might be history. Sure, you can find a good gig doing it.

00:24:14:21 - 00:24:30:18
Unknown
They're ultra competitive and hard to come by. So, yeah, just willingness to learn every single day and to do something different. And I think that's really important. And I think that's something I know. I often tell everybody in the office that we all have things to learn from each other. And I don't know, I know I don't know everything.

00:24:30:18 - 00:24:49:13
Unknown
And I have to ask. It could be someone that just got started in the business. I might have to ask them a question because I but I think the willingness to learn is really important, especially as a leader, because if you think you know everything, I always tell everybody if someone claims that they know everything, they're lying to you, they're lying or trying to sell you something, right?

00:24:49:18 - 00:25:14:02
Unknown
Yeah, yeah. Yep, yep. Okay, so college. All right, great. Now you're working at Cafe Steam or it was press at the time. Yep. Yep. What? What started this passion out? Call it an obsession with coffee. Was there anything in the past Will like, you know, you love to drink coffee or like what? I was a tea drinker when I was working at that press.

00:25:14:02 - 00:25:39:13
Unknown
The coffee shop originally. And it was because for for one reason or another, caffeine in the concentration of of a lot of you know, espresso and that such a big out you know but you find I remember my first experience was going up to a cupping which is a type of sampling that you do for as a roastery where you bring in lights from all over the world and sample them next to each other in small, in very small amounts.

00:25:39:16 - 00:25:57:22
Unknown
And I wasn't taking it very seriously. I would I would smell coffee and I would look at them and go, It smells like coffee, you know? Yeah, because people do it nowadays. And I'm like, and I got to one cup in it. And I went, I smell that. I went, Hmm, this one smells like barbecue. Is there, is this a flavored coffee?

00:25:57:22 - 00:26:20:06
Unknown
And he goes, No, man, it's the coffee. And I was like, Oh, So my my whole world was changed from that one barbecue coffee. Now, that's not necessarily an attribute that you want, but I realized that in in that moment that there was so much more going into coffee than what I was giving it credit for. You know, it's it's the terroir where it's being grown and it's the processing method to take it from it.

00:26:20:07 - 00:26:44:03
Unknown
You know, it's it's cherry form to the form of consumption. There's the roasting that goes into it from its origin to you having it in your coffee. There are no fewer than nine sets of hands that have touched that single bean in the process of going from from country to cup. And it gave me a much greater respect for it.

00:26:44:10 - 00:27:08:27
Unknown
And it also had such an entry level education point to where you didn't need to go to some class and you can go to classes and it's great. You don't need to go to some class, you can research online, you can purchase books for yourself and self educate to, to have that and that knowledge basis. And a lot of things are overcomplicated with coffee, a lot of it.

00:27:08:27 - 00:27:30:08
Unknown
And it's also more complicated in ways that people don't, don't anticipate, but it's something that you can know right off the bat whether or not you're making something good. Right? It's not like I don't know. What comes to mind is welding where you can weld something and it not being having a structural integrity or something like that because it's it's hidden within what you're creating.

00:27:30:10 - 00:27:48:24
Unknown
You know, it's not like so many other trades where it's hard to appreciate at almost at an instant whether or not it tastes good. And when it comes down to that subjectivity, you can learn very quickly as a result whether or not something is good. So guess that's crazy. So like, this is like I'm thinking you are like a Somalia of coffee.

00:27:48:29 - 00:28:15:08
Unknown
Is there. I want to ask this question, is there is there are there people like that? There's an equivalent called a Q greater now it it's actually almost equally as rigid or as difficult to get into that. Q Greater status as it is to be a Somalia because you have to and and it's it's a money thing, you know, it's expensive to get that status because you have to then fly out to out out east or out west to to do it.

00:28:15:10 - 00:28:35:17
Unknown
And these companies that do so are need to be able to support themselves and sustain themselves. But that gives you some credibility when purchasing green coffee. So from the Holloway side, you know, when we're sourcing coffee, we get it from all over the world. And if we find a sample that we don't necessarily like, you can go back to the to your trade partner and say like, hey, you know, this quality isn't really meeting us.

00:28:35:22 - 00:28:56:01
Unknown
And I know that. And I can say that because I'm, you know, Q or status. I don't have that title yet. Yeah, I don't know that I ever will. I would like to provide opportunities for those that are working for Callaway to be able to, if it's something they're interested to have, have that experience. But again, it's not something that's entirely necessary.

00:28:56:01 - 00:29:16:28
Unknown
If you know that you're saying something good or tasting something bad, you can generally pick it out. But there are also quality defects. So like something that went wrong in the in the on the agricultural side where there's are over fermentation or something that makes the coffee taste sour or, or gross, that's often hard to detect. So you'll buy a bunch of it and then you realize there's a defect you like crap.

00:29:16:28 - 00:29:37:01
Unknown
Now I'm stuck with two tons of a coffee that's that tastes really bad. So yeah, it can be important, but it's only if it's something that you choose, choose to provide or give that importance to. Sure. Well, gosh, I just find this really fascinating. So. Okay, you said Callaway coffee. Yep. Yep. So let's let's talk about kind of, I guess, the business a little bit more.

00:29:37:01 - 00:30:09:12
Unknown
So, you know, you got into it, you became an owner operator. There was one cafe steam location. What happened? Yeah. So are growth over the last few years. It started in in 2015, we kind of hit and there were other coffee shops in town. I don't want to be reductive of it, but for what? We had that brick and mortar coffee shop, very few existed and so we had our footprint that became larger and larger and we found ourselves having a capacity issue.

00:30:09:14 - 00:30:34:26
Unknown
We couldn't necessarily serve as many people as we wanted, and there was a need that was recognized for us to open other locations. And it it's in part because you want to expand every I think every company has an obligation to growth. And we had an opportunity with a Starbucks that had existed in the Hilton Doubletree, the hotel that owned it.

00:30:34:28 - 00:30:50:01
Unknown
We saw that there was a change in business downtown as as we came about. And they said, well, why don't we just, you know, go ask them if they would like to run this this cafe. And it was a great turnkey, you know, pretty easy. All the equipment we bought our own, you know, specialty equipment to increase the quality of the coffee.

00:30:50:01 - 00:31:17:27
Unknown
But everything was set up for us there. Great. And so that was a pretty natural transition. And it was the first risk that as a business owner, I was I was taking on and it still seemed like such a huge risk at the time. And I think it was a great learning experience from that point. In 2019, we opened up actually two locations within a week of each other, and it wasn't by plan, but it was our project with the beer project, which has a micro cafe.

00:31:17:27 - 00:31:47:05
Unknown
It existed as a coffee shop in the morning and a brewery at night. Beautiful spot, you know, as a result of COVID that when we were forced to consolidate after the fact, really small footprint, fortunately. So the impact of it wasn't detrimental and then our one Discovery Square location, which is in partnership with Mortenson and the great folks there at in those buildings, and that one was another venture into something new.

00:31:47:06 - 00:32:08:22
Unknown
Right. It's a and you know, you're you're working through build outs and you're doing all these things and taking on a lot of, you know, additional risk. Of course, Mortenson was it was integral in the success of of that project. From there. So now we're we're at three locations. Right And so you realize suddenly you have this really big company underneath you.

00:32:08:24 - 00:32:38:04
Unknown
You're purchasing product from a coffee roasting company. And we were by working with Roastery seven out of the city's great friends, Alan and the folks up there, I was able to do some traveling with them as a result. So going through Ethiopia and Kenya and super thankful for those experiences with them. But we recognize that like if we're going to do this right, we need to be controlling our, you know, the vertically integrated, vertically integrated, and it opens up your margin quite a bit if you're able to meet that capacity.

00:32:38:04 - 00:32:57:03
Unknown
And with three locations now, we're moving quite a bit of coffee every week. And so that was far less of a risk because it's one of those things where it just made sense. You know, as a business owner, some things just click and you're like that. I you know, I wanted to do this yesterday. The opportunity didn't exist.

00:32:57:05 - 00:33:18:01
Unknown
We looked into building out a facility and it was incredibly cost prohibitive. Some of the the bent just the ducting associated with it was 700 $800 linear foot. And so just to put a roaster into to a space, not only the upfront cost of 2530 K for the roaster, but now you're looking at 2530 K just to, just to get the event up put up into the ceiling.

00:33:18:01 - 00:33:43:12
Unknown
And that was one of those really we're realizing like now it's just not going to make sense. Got to call end of 2020. I think it was like two or three days before Christmas and Merry Christmas. Yeah, right from the owner of Narrow Road Coffee Roasters and he asked if we wanted to purchase some, some grinder, some coffee grinders.

00:33:43:15 - 00:34:02:04
Unknown
And I was like, sure, we'll come to take a look at it. And I knew that he was, you know, doing some roasting. And I was like, So what would be what inspires you to, you know, to try to get rid of the stuffing as well? I'm looking at transitioning out. You know, I've been roasting for ten years now and it's really only been a side hobby.

00:34:02:04 - 00:34:19:10
Unknown
Never really wanted to, you know, go, go Hollywood with it and was able to provide his clients on a very ethical basis and working with local churches and such. But he was ready to make an exit. So what what would you want for for all of it? And of course, this is deep covered, right? Yeah, we're around the money for this.

00:34:19:10 - 00:34:36:06
Unknown
And and but it was one of the things and he came back with a number and we back and forth and we're like, you know, here's what it would cost for us to start this up on our own. Here's how much money we would save. You run the numbers and you're like, okay, here's how long it would take for us to to make this back.

00:34:36:09 - 00:34:58:11
Unknown
And so for the last two years, we've been now figuring out how to roast, you know, taking some roasting classes, but just teaching yourself how to do this. I was making some terrible coffee. It was really, really bad. And fortunately, we had a good relationship with our previous roaster where we were able to kind of slowly incorporate our own product, get it dialed in and start roasting.

00:34:58:14 - 00:35:21:21
Unknown
And I'm doing this by myself, so I'm roasting for each of our locations, then providing support for them as an owner. And I realize I was like, Gosh, I'm just running out of time. And we weren't really at a capacity where Calloway itself could support staff and get an email from Austin Power. And I thought it I thought it was a fake email at first.

00:35:21:23 - 00:35:36:20
Unknown
And he said, you know, I'm moving from South Carolina and I'm I'm interested and I've got ten years of coffee roasting experience. We'd love to love the chatter or at least explore what employment opportunities you have a color. And I was like, I called him within 5 minutes. I was like, I'm going to be super honest with you.

00:35:36:22 - 00:35:55:27
Unknown
We're really small. We don't have the means to support this, but I'd love to keep talking with you. So he came out, got I haven't talked about coffee like that in, in my entire life. And we just we just clicked. And Austin as a person is so hugely important for the coffee roasting side because he brings that that ten years of experience into it.

00:35:56:00 - 00:36:13:13
Unknown
And even though we weren't at a point really where we could support it, I was like, We can't miss out on this opportunity to have somebody like us and with us. And so we made him an offer because we were so small. We were only doing roasting a couple of days a week. And he also has breached experience.

00:36:13:13 - 00:36:39:07
Unknown
So it's like, Austin, what what would you do if we were to do split time, like do brisk stuff, which is a huge load to take on. But he was like, I'm for it because and it's so awesome to do. And now as clearly it's growing, we're going from two, three, four days a week of roasting. You know, we're roasting close to £500 a week for not only are each of the locations, but our regional partners as well, coffee shops and grocery stores.

00:36:39:07 - 00:36:58:18
Unknown
And and it's super cool to now be able to provide our own take on a product that has existed for hundreds of years and be able to provide it at a quality level that I think a Rochester seems to really enjoy. So that's really amazing. The growth that you all have seen is it's incredible to watch and very opportunistic.

00:36:58:24 - 00:37:26:16
Unknown
It's not like I think folks are comfortable taking an incredible amount of risk in business as they should. That's that's one thing that keeps people out of business because you can't go half in. You have to be all in or it's it's not going to work out. And for us, we are you know, I'm dedicated to this 100%, but we've also been able to recognize a lot of really good opportunities that allow us to to grow in that way.

00:37:26:18 - 00:37:45:21
Unknown
So, yeah, that's cool. So I know you had mentioned in with your previous work, you know, going to various countries, are you still doing that or like where are you sourcing this from? Because I'm actually really interested, because I've actually been on a coffee farm before in the Caribbean. Oh, really? So I actually got to see what you're talking about.

00:37:45:21 - 00:38:07:00
Unknown
And it's nothing. Nothing. What I thought this was, I just I had no clue, to be honest. I wasn't a coffee drinker. I didn't pay any attention. Yeah, it's crazy. So who are, like, who are your partners and where are you? And sourcing your beans and all this? Yeah, and that's one of those important perspectives that Origin ships are able to provide to Coffee roasters.

00:38:07:00 - 00:38:35:10
Unknown
Is it you now understand the process and how difficult it is to, to go into it. So now you're more, you're more willing to pay a lot more for coffee than you may have been previously because agricultural products are still very labor intensive and you don't make a lot of money as a result. And they're super fluid and difficult to difficult to manage.

00:38:35:12 - 00:39:03:17
Unknown
But it is nice to be able to go to location and meet with the farmer, understand their what their struggles and and what it takes to make just a good cup of coffee. So we source from we work with a number of different importing groups CAF imports being our largest our largest provider and they source coffee from all over the world and they provide us with samples and we are able to do that.

00:39:03:17 - 00:39:28:01
Unknown
That cupping that I mentioned to where we're sampling different coffees side by side and from there we determine, well, what kind of characteristics are we looking for in a coffee? Are we looking to fill out a portfolio of processing methods that are taste really good? So much like wine? Wine has, you know, nuanced flavors associated with it, with it both in the origin and how it's being processed.

00:39:28:08 - 00:39:52:05
Unknown
Coffee is the same way and we wanted it. And there are two ways that you can do that. You can either just like only serve the coffees that you think tastes good, which is great, but there's also providing people with the experience of like, okay, you're looking at a list, I want various processing methods and so forth to pick from because I want that too, to try different things.

00:39:52:07 - 00:40:15:18
Unknown
So a lot of our coffees right now, Colombia, obviously huge, huge producer. We use it in a number of our blends as well as the single origin coffee that that we provide. Kenya and Ethiopia are two of my favorite origins. I've been fortunate enough to to visit those farms and meet with the folks there and but those are those are two places that we regularly get coffee from.

00:40:15:21 - 00:40:51:17
Unknown
Then you can get some from from places that you maybe have never heard of Yemen, Burundi, Sulawesi, These places, these countries that are really small don't have a huge export economy for for coffee, but they produce a really high quality. Yemen was one of my one of my favorite coffees ever, and we were able to have a Zoom call with the farmer that grew the coffee and he just very interesting guy and very passionate about coffee and providing it to and having his growers and pickers be provided with a fair wage outside of the fair trade qualification.

00:40:51:17 - 00:41:23:23
Unknown
So for every pound of coffee that we purchase from them, 95% of that purchasing price went back to the farmer itself. So that naturally we're purchasing it at a higher dollar amount, but we know that we're doing so ethically and it was a fantastic coffee. So other origins of Costa Rica, Guatemala, you know, the standard of any country between the tropics of cancer and Capricorn that are at an elevation of, you know, I think it's, you know, has to be 1500 meters above sea level, that kind of thing.

00:41:23:25 - 00:41:46:14
Unknown
I like asking not only business owners, entrepreneurs, younger people, but how do you find time? Because this is such a passion and such a mission and it's such a big part of your life, which I think is really great because I feel that this is more than that. This is a hobby for you, which is really crazy because people oftentimes can't say that about their occupation.

00:41:46:16 - 00:42:17:14
Unknown
But how do you how do you then translate that into, okay, I need will time or spending time with family, friends, significant others, whatever that mean? How how do you do that? It's the magic question. I know there is no will time and that's the hardest part. And I think it's it sets in. As for business owners, pretty pretty early on, thankfully, and where they realize like, oh, this is my life now, you know, every every you're getting phone calls, you know, every every turn.

00:42:17:16 - 00:42:36:09
Unknown
My phone was just going off. And you can see I kind of change my my my mannerisms. I'm like, oh, I know, I know. It's something, you know, that you're not excited about, but you're to get that call at five in the morning, you're going to get that call at 11:00 at night. I can't tell you how many family dinners Christmas, Thanksgiving I've had to cancel because a pipe burst in your location.

00:42:36:09 - 00:43:03:27
Unknown
And but it's it's less of an impact on you. It's more an impact on the people around you. And if you can surround yourself with with individuals who recognize that that that struggle, it can just be very difficult on on the people in your life. You know 70, 5% of all marriages that are in a small business end up in divorce because of that, Both the financial stress and the time stress that's associated with it.

00:43:03:29 - 00:43:24:00
Unknown
And, you know, finding the right people, you know, you're you're a bad friend to your to the friends. That's a small group of friends that you do have. You're a bad you know, a sibling or whatnot, because you're you're not necessarily able to dedicate the time to fostering those relationships like you would. You don't really have any free time and any free time that you do have.

00:43:24:00 - 00:43:39:28
Unknown
You feel guilty for taking because you think, Oh, I could be working or you're laying in bed at night. I can't tell you how many times you're, you know, I, I wake up in the morning and I think and I know there's somebody working right now and I could be working. I could you know, I could be doing that.

00:43:39:28 - 00:44:02:16
Unknown
So you have to grapple with that sort of internal struggle to which is often very difficult, but try not to paint it in a negative light, you know, and make sure that if you are having somebody work for you, you're providing them with a good environment to work and one that they can support themselves with. And that should satiate any sort of that that stress or anxiety that you have with taking your own personal time.

00:44:02:19 - 00:44:24:16
Unknown
I go the gym. That's about the time that I provide myself with each day and, you know, try to cut out time each day to do so. But other than that, any hobbies that you have outside of of it are just accessory. They're not something that you're able to develop a passion to and your mindset changes that so that every move that you make is how to support better support your business or how to better grow your business.

00:44:24:16 - 00:44:50:25
Unknown
But it's the tragic it's the tragic truth for for a lot of business owners. And I know so many like, you know, business owners that are my age that just have zero social life, you're only ever going to see them when you're visiting their business. And those are the those are the real ones that get it. And it's just yeah, they don't really have time for vacation if they do take a time, you know, a lot of time off.

00:44:50:25 - 00:45:09:27
Unknown
They have the extra communicate, you know, and try to set things up prior to, to leave. But yeah, and they're not paid well to do what they do. You wonder why people get into it and once they're out of it, they hopefully never get back into it. But you do have so serial entrepreneur is like, you know do the things they they fail and then they go on to the next next thing.

00:45:10:00 - 00:45:27:26
Unknown
Those people are tough to be around because they're. Yeah, but just because it takes away from a lot of the difficult work that it is to be a business owner. Yeah. Oh, for sure. Well, I just want to like, I want to talk about a little bit about how I got in contact with Cafe Steam and this is pretty funny.

00:45:27:28 - 00:45:44:13
Unknown
It was eight years ago and my buddy from Portland was visiting for a wedding from college, and we had a college, but he was getting married up in Minneapolis. He stayed with me. It was a Friday night. We went out, of course, did the whole thing and woke up Saturday morning and he said, Nick, I need a coffee.

00:45:44:15 - 00:46:10:28
Unknown
He said, Well, you know, do you got a local coffee shop? I said, Well, I don't drink coffee. I had one of coffee and it was actually in Lithuania. It because in college I went on this one month Eastern European class about trade with the Teutonic Knights and things like that and yeah and yeah, it was crazy. But after Teutonic, after well, I don't even know what he meant.

00:46:11:01 - 00:46:29:10
Unknown
But yeah, it was just crazy. But after every meal we would eat dinner late, and after every meal they'd bring us a cup of coffee. And so eventually we're probably three weeks into this thing. And like I said, we're in Lithuania and I'm like, okay, my classmates are drinking coffee, but they've been drinking coffee probably forever to stay up or whatever.

00:46:29:10 - 00:46:44:05
Unknown
I've never had a cup of coffee. I tried it. I think I don't like it. I don't like it. So fast forward then to eight years ago. My buddy from Portland says I need a coffee badly. And so okay. So I was living close to Soldiers Field at that time. I said, Let's just walk and we needed to take a walk.

00:46:44:09 - 00:46:59:08
Unknown
Yeah, we walked down a café. Same. He goes, Hey, do you want anything? I said, Nope, I don't. I don't drink coffee. I had a cup of coffee in. And that was like, whatever, three years or four years ago. And I he goes, Oh, I'm going to get you something. You'll like it. I'm like, Yeah, no, no, no.

00:46:59:08 - 00:47:18:04
Unknown
Trust me, he was going to get you a mocha. I said, Okay. I said, But I probably won't drink it. He goes, Well, you know, he's he said, it's like a hot chocolate. Okay, I gotcha. From that point on, I had a, I had a half of my mocha. And I will tell you, I was so buzzed. I was shaking.

00:47:18:07 - 00:47:35:20
Unknown
And from that point on, I was hooked. And I swear to you, I've almost been to Cafe Steam almost every single day. You are singlehandedly supporting A and and some of those morning. And then he was like, well just because like oh this is really good. He's like, oh, well, don't worry. Like you'll graduate from the milk at some point.

00:47:35:22 - 00:47:57:12
Unknown
I still haven't graduated in eight years. No. And that accessibility is what a lot of coffee shops tend to lack. You go in and it's, you know, you can order black coffee or nothing else and it it maintains the, you know, that upper echelon quality part, which I really love. And for many concept cafes that you can do, you can do just, you know, a very straightforward coffee, nothing, nothing special.

00:47:57:14 - 00:48:33:24
Unknown
But where does the everyman, you know, how do they gain entry into the coffee world? And a lot of it starts with those, you know, the frappuccinos and things. Now, we don't serve frappuccinos, but we need something that is a nice transition from point A to point B, where if you're coming from Starbucks, if you're coming from Cambridge, coming from money, any of these changes, are you able to find something that you recognize mochas and say, Well, I know the quality of the mocha that I'm used to, how I wonder how they compare And when you are met with that change and that increase in quality, you go, Wow, I want this every day.

00:48:33:27 - 00:48:52:10
Unknown
That's what we're hoping to see now. Accessibility needs to come in a number of different ways. Not only are you having a product that people recognize, but you also need to be available for folks. So your hours need to be very consistent so that they know that they can visit you on on any day and you can be open the same hours you need to have parking.

00:48:52:10 - 00:49:15:25
Unknown
Difficult downtown, almost impossible to some you need to be or walkable. So just determining how how do you get your product to people and make it as accessible as possible is really important. Yeah, for sure. And I just been like I said, I've been hooked ever since. And now I even have my my two year old not hooked on coffee, but hooked on the direct sandwiches.

00:49:15:25 - 00:49:35:25
Unknown
Let me tell you, I this is no joke. My two year old every night and this is no joke. Every night when we go to bed, she'll say she thinks it's every the next day is going to be the weekend. Because why she wants to go to Cafe Steam to get her egg, sausage and bread. And that is no joke.

00:49:35:28 - 00:49:54:12
Unknown
It last night when we went to bed, she goes, oh, wake up, call coffee shop. All right. And she says she calls it her mission. That's some it's her mission. We're going to go on a mission. And the mission is goals to some, to the coffee shop. Yeah, that's awesome. So you have created this obsession, even for two year old.

00:49:54:14 - 00:50:12:14
Unknown
And I think it's awesome. And the other thing will I want to just touch on a little bit is like the partners that you guys have created to just like locally with your with your, your baked goods. Yeah. Can you maybe just touch on that a little bit because you guys are so community focused and I just I really love it.

00:50:12:17 - 00:50:32:12
Unknown
I really love it. Try to find a local vendor for as many things as you can because and there's a self serving part of like, you know, you're going to be able to promote them. They're also going to be able to promote you. And and typically so for our for example, our milk from Kapur's Big Red Barn, they started out as a super small dairy farm and we went to them like, Hey, we'd love for you.

00:50:32:12 - 00:51:00:12
Unknown
And they were bottling plant, but they were doing most of that home delivery stuff and so a lot smaller when they, when they first started, as most people are. And we came to them and said, we'd love for you to be providing our coffee because of or provide our milk and because when we tried it in our product, oh my gosh, it was an entirely different, different world and we needed to they need to scale up to, to meet that demand over time.

00:51:00:14 - 00:51:20:02
Unknown
Then eventually they were providing, you know, milk to every every specialty cafe in southern Minnesota. They were going up to Minneapolis. They had something like 12 different cafes as a result. And you love to see that type of growth because you know that at that it's Genesis. It started with a partnership that you were able to create. They did all of the work to get themselves to the point of growth.

00:51:20:02 - 00:51:43:10
Unknown
But you know that you can oh, a lot of that. Or you can take pride in the fact that you were able to be there at the at the beginning. So, honey, another example, you know, Beachhead Honey Farm, I think we were one of one of their first larger clients. For a lot of our ingredients. We use honey sweet house bakery small bakery have started up.

00:51:43:16 - 00:52:14:09
Unknown
Now they're providing every coffee shop in town with with pastries and and we purchase from them on a daily basis. And gosh, so many other smaller vendors that, you know, you have a not an obligation, but it's almost a sense of of respect for each other that you need to be able to support each other, because without those those stepping stones and the jumping off point, you're you know, you're not going to be able to find the growth that you need to sustain it.

00:52:14:15 - 00:52:35:11
Unknown
Yeah. So we talk about growth. This is the real growth. I guess we've talked about growth here and there, the past, how you guys have grown to where you're at today, where do you where do you see yourselves moving forward and what does that growth look like? That is it's always been very organic and I appreciate that. I get all of the time, Where are you hoping to take us?

00:52:35:11 - 00:52:59:24
Unknown
And I think those folks with you can have a vision for what you want it to be. You're often disappointed by where small business can take you. I often joke that people will say, Oh, I haven't seen an event. And I said, Yeah, I'm at my beach condo or joke. I don't know where on this planet we do have a beach condo, but it's one of these things where you need to manage your own expectations.

00:52:59:24 - 00:53:29:01
Unknown
And so I come to it, no expectation as to where it's going to be. Just recognize opportunity, see where there are unique markets that you can hit, provide for needs that are not there. I think I started the first two years of color way of of like aggressively pursuing clients, but that's awful. It's an awful cold car sales are terrible and yeah, Ian, I know that I wanted to sell more coffee to people, but what I needed to do was recognize where there was a gap in their service.

00:53:29:08 - 00:53:48:25
Unknown
I was like, Hey, I see that you're, you know, you're a restaurant, you know, what are what are you doing for coffee? And so what we've always wanted to do. So you have to kind of find that those where you know the cracks and as water finds cracks in the rocks, you can't just try to bust down the door and try to get people to move from one product another.

00:53:48:25 - 00:54:15:02
Unknown
That's often impossible. So find those needs where they are, meet the needs, exceed expectations of the customer where you can and then just kind of continue pressing on. But I try not to update too much on like, Oh, I hope, yeah, yeah, we're worldwide someday and it's just that's just not going to happen. You so there are, there are any number of shapes that Cafe's team can take on.

00:54:15:04 - 00:54:33:13
Unknown
I don't know that we'll ever get into franchising. I don't know that that's an interesting for me because let me know if you do. Because I would love I would love to be a part of this. Yes. And so and for a lot of franchisees, they have that's all I know. A lot of people who are do so and they're invested in it as it as it is their own business.

00:54:33:16 - 00:54:52:23
Unknown
Such is often not the case, though. And so you can, um, I wish I had a very succinct and beautiful answer for that of where is cafe seem headed. We're headed to tomorrow and the next day. And the next day. And the next day. And I know we'll be open for the next, you know however long and with no plans on on that changing.

00:54:52:25 - 00:55:23:24
Unknown
But I'd be I wouldn't be sitting in this chair if I thought that we were in any other different. And I actually really appreciate that answer. You know I Bucky and I have now on this really growth for since 2016 and I we've always preached slow and steady wins the race and just take it to to spread too thin now take it a day at a time because I think I feel very fortunate that now we're in like growth mode.

00:55:23:26 - 00:55:43:17
Unknown
But eight years ago we could have said, Oh, no, we're going to we're going to do X, Y, Z and really try to make this thing exploding. We just weren't ready. Well, we just weren't. And now organically, we've grown. Bucky has been a huge part of that for us with all the social media stuff and everything. But it's we've slowly have gained one day of notoriety and it's one day at a time.

00:55:43:17 - 00:56:07:28
Unknown
And I, I appreciate that like what you're doing. But each day, seriously, Right. Make sure that you're learning something that day or doing something new for yourself. But you're not. You're not you have this template and you guys are big on on culture and team building. Your team is each has your own own departments, but you have a soul in it and it is your part which is super unique for that type of type of model.

00:56:07:29 - 00:56:29:10
Unknown
In like you we've talked about, our people are the heartbeat, the people are the heartbeat of every organization and you've got to take care of your people. Yeah, you have to, because without them we're nothing. Yeah, I mean, we're nothing, so. Well, I think we're. We're getting the time here, if you can believe it. What? Any last thoughts for the people that are watching?

00:56:29:12 - 00:56:54:00
Unknown
Listening. Just, you know, gosh, this has been so great. Like just hearing your story, not having like any, you know, experience at all with any of this. Anything you would tell anybody out there? I don't care what the final thoughts are, but I wish I had something very esoteric and philosophical and something that meant something that made me sound really smart.

00:56:54:02 - 00:57:18:03
Unknown
You could say, you know, don't don't sweat the petty things and don't pet the sweaty things. I never heard that. The second part of that that's there is. But no, I, I guess, you know, it is almost impossible for for those enjoying the the work of small business owners to understand the struggle and the risk and the financial risk that a lot of them take on.

00:57:18:05 - 00:57:37:15
Unknown
What's difficult to understand is that small businesses close. It's not just like it goes. A lot of small business owners are then thrust into years of legal battles and a lifetime of debt as a result to fulfill something that would be cool to take it seriously. If you do go into small business, please take it seriously. And it just it can't be a hobby thing.

00:57:37:15 - 00:58:03:29
Unknown
He can't be something that people are like. I think it would be cute to open a coffee shop. I know. Yeah. A little bit about that. And because you need to be providing for something, you're not there to take from something. And there also needs to be a conversation about the competitiveness in the business owner or business ecosystem where you're not fighting pieces of the pie, you're trying to grow the pie.

00:58:03:29 - 00:58:25:14
Unknown
So how are we can Rochester can handle more coffee shops. It just needs more coffee shops that are fulfilling the culture of of coffee shops. And that's for for that industry specifically. I know that is not exclusive to to that industry, but there is more demand for more small businesses and people who are going to take it seriously and elevate the business ecosystem of of Rochester.

00:58:25:21 - 00:58:47:12
Unknown
I love it. I love it. And, you know, I just really appreciate this conversation. This morning. I appreciate hearing this story. The passion is what I love and what I'm really taking from this. I mean, you are living you are living coffee and you are living your business and your dreams and your passions and your hobbies and whatever.

00:58:47:12 - 00:59:14:03
Unknown
And this has been really, really awesome. So for everybody out there, I want to say go to cafe. See you will see Will there. You'll probably see me there. But you really want to see Will support local because we oftentimes talk about that here at realty growth as well support local do it because great things are really happening to support them because they have a and support them because they have a good product.

00:59:14:03 - 00:59:31:04
Unknown
I think a lot of people use the local thing as as a crutch. They feel like you you have to do it because it's local. You have to do it because it's a good product and you know, you choose to support local because you want to continue to see them around. So and it is, I swear, the best goddamn of coffee you will ever have.

00:59:31:06 - 00:59:44:14
Unknown
Excuse me, mocha or night holler. Yeah, I. Thank you. Thank you. We appreciate that. Yeah, absolutely. Well, well, thanks again. This is another episode of the Real Growth Podcast. Thank you, everybody, for listening in. And we'll see you next time.