1 00:00:07,439 --> 00:00:08,139 Lucy Dearlove: This is Lecker. 2 00:00:09,520 --> 00:00:10,290 I'm Lucy Dearlove. 3 00:00:24,380 --> 00:00:24,400 Tea. 4 00:00:24,400 --> 00:00:25,040 Sesame seeds. 5 00:00:25,710 --> 00:00:28,360 On this episode, home building. 6 00:00:28,880 --> 00:00:30,499 Stories of moving house. 7 00:00:30,610 --> 00:00:33,339 And more specifically, moving kitchen. 8 00:00:33,829 --> 00:00:36,950 This is actually really good spice storage though. 9 00:00:36,950 --> 00:00:38,484 Loads of space. 10 00:00:39,185 --> 00:00:43,625 This is actually going to be a similar setup to the way I had them before, which 11 00:00:43,625 --> 00:00:47,655 was kind of like a corner cupboard with a thing that pulled out and you could 12 00:00:47,655 --> 00:00:51,644 just look down and see all the labels at the top and read the names from that 13 00:00:51,784 --> 00:00:56,914 and now this is a corner cupboard but it's a carousel thing and I think that's 14 00:00:57,155 --> 00:00:58,075 going to be the best way to keep them. 15 00:00:58,595 --> 00:01:02,425 Oh, and there's this other little, like a really sort of slim tool. 16 00:01:03,185 --> 00:01:03,425 Oh. 17 00:01:06,885 --> 00:01:13,535 Okay, so there's this like little sort of like small unit with like enough space for 18 00:01:13,535 --> 00:01:18,775 spices on top and then like bottles below But the previous people haven't emptied 19 00:01:18,775 --> 00:01:27,205 it, So we've got some paprika, some ground cinnamon, lots of, lots of, um, 20 00:01:30,855 --> 00:01:35,464 just lots of spices in there. 21 00:01:35,465 --> 00:01:35,750 I just nearly dropped that. 22 00:01:35,750 --> 00:01:37,355 It smells very overwhelmingly of clothes, all these brown 23 00:01:37,505 --> 00:01:37,725 clothes. 24 00:01:43,759 --> 00:01:44,440 And we've got, 25 00:01:45,579 --> 00:01:49,810 dark light soy, rice vinegar, I've literally just put the exact same 26 00:01:49,810 --> 00:01:54,060 bottle of rice vinegar in there, olive oil, sesame oil, Shaoxing wine. 27 00:01:54,989 --> 00:01:58,190 I mean I would actually probably use these, but it's also kind of annoying 28 00:01:59,430 --> 00:02:02,190 because I don't need them because I already have all of them, and I don't 29 00:02:02,190 --> 00:02:04,000 know if they just forgot to take them or 30 00:02:05,840 --> 00:02:06,350 couldn't be bothered. 31 00:02:09,140 --> 00:02:09,430 I do understand that. 32 00:02:11,200 --> 00:02:12,940 Because packing is so tedious. 33 00:02:14,360 --> 00:02:14,880 The worst. 34 00:02:15,260 --> 00:02:17,119 By the time it came to the kitchen... 35 00:02:17,535 --> 00:02:18,665 I was exhausted. 36 00:02:19,255 --> 00:02:23,255 We had already spent days sifting through the things that we had acquired and 37 00:02:23,265 --> 00:02:27,945 held onto over the past decade, whether they were beautiful or useful or not. 38 00:02:28,905 --> 00:02:32,015 It had worn me down and I could not face doing the same in 39 00:02:32,024 --> 00:02:34,595 the kitchen, so I left them. 40 00:02:36,354 --> 00:02:39,075 We paid a removals company more money and they sent someone 41 00:02:39,094 --> 00:02:42,535 down a day early to efficiently pack our belongings into boxes. 42 00:02:43,710 --> 00:02:47,290 In the kitchen, he packed it all, unsorted and unrefined. 43 00:02:49,299 --> 00:02:53,679 The old kitchen was separate, square, with cabinets arranged in 44 00:02:53,680 --> 00:02:57,720 a U shape under the counter, and two levels of open shelves above. 45 00:02:58,939 --> 00:03:03,239 The shelves and the counter were both made of orange formica, a splash of colour that 46 00:03:03,240 --> 00:03:05,054 cheered me every time I walked in there. 47 00:03:05,805 --> 00:03:06,465 So the kitchen in 48 00:03:06,465 --> 00:03:09,834 Ruby Mason: my old flat was quite small. 49 00:03:10,165 --> 00:03:15,484 A lot of Berlin kitchens are kind of long and thin because older buildings were 50 00:03:15,484 --> 00:03:19,584 often built without bathrooms because there were shared bathrooms downstairs, 51 00:03:19,584 --> 00:03:21,595 kind of in the backyard, like outhouses. 52 00:03:21,685 --> 00:03:26,575 As things got modernized, they often just sliced, a kind of slice off the 53 00:03:26,575 --> 00:03:28,035 kitchen and made it into the bathroom. 54 00:03:28,680 --> 00:03:30,709 Margaux Vialleron: My old kitchen was a morning kitchen. 55 00:03:31,210 --> 00:03:36,500 It was facing east, it had the most incredible aquamarine color, and I would 56 00:03:36,500 --> 00:03:39,129 just bathe in the light every morning. 57 00:03:39,380 --> 00:03:44,829 I sat on a tiny stool I left all day long there, and just put some 58 00:03:44,829 --> 00:03:46,650 coffee on and started working. 59 00:03:48,160 --> 00:03:50,160 Stephen Rötzsch Thomas: 100 percent the kitchen that sold me 60 00:03:50,160 --> 00:03:52,700 on, the house that we ended up in. 61 00:03:53,390 --> 00:03:55,190 It was this beautiful space. 62 00:03:56,000 --> 00:03:59,070 They'd extended the back of the house, and so it was a quite long kitchen. 63 00:03:59,080 --> 00:04:00,530 It had room for an island. 64 00:04:01,020 --> 00:04:04,980 The doors were painted all this pastel ish sort of green, and there 65 00:04:04,980 --> 00:04:08,810 was this huge curved granite worktop, as well as the granite on top of the 66 00:04:08,810 --> 00:04:11,160 uh, on top of the kitchen island. 67 00:04:13,260 --> 00:04:14,100 Our landlords, before they... 68 00:04:14,995 --> 00:04:21,105 Moved out and now back in, had lived in the house that we were then in, 69 00:04:21,965 --> 00:04:24,285 and so they decorated it for them. 70 00:04:24,675 --> 00:04:28,115 It wasn't like other houses we'd been in which were just bland and grey 71 00:04:28,125 --> 00:04:32,305 and beige and, you know, kitchens in the corner of the living room. 72 00:04:32,524 --> 00:04:34,675 Matthew Curtis: You know, it's a two up, two down terraced 73 00:04:34,695 --> 00:04:40,015 house in South Manchester, but the kitchen hadn't been cleaned. 74 00:04:40,665 --> 00:04:42,385 And it was massive. 75 00:04:43,060 --> 00:04:48,280 So, I just spent some time in there cleaning it and getting to know it. 76 00:04:48,880 --> 00:04:51,360 The oven didn't get hot properly. 77 00:04:51,360 --> 00:04:56,149 It basically had two settings, lukewarm or raging hot. 78 00:04:56,719 --> 00:04:57,720 It had a gas hob. 79 00:04:58,370 --> 00:05:01,060 I love to cook, so I sort of worked around it. 80 00:05:01,740 --> 00:05:08,080 And it was fine, but I never really felt particularly inspired to cook 81 00:05:08,080 --> 00:05:11,670 in there because it didn't feel like a space that I wanted to spend 82 00:05:11,720 --> 00:05:13,260 much time in, which is depressing. 83 00:05:13,669 --> 00:05:18,060 Maria Agiomyrgiannaki: My old kitchen was in a garden flat 84 00:05:18,070 --> 00:05:20,620 behind Turnpike Lane bus station. 85 00:05:21,090 --> 00:05:26,650 Haringey became home very quickly and the kitchen was 86 00:05:26,650 --> 00:05:30,490 quite small and kind of L shaped. 87 00:05:31,159 --> 00:05:37,420 It had a big window above the kitchen sink overlooking a fence with like 88 00:05:37,469 --> 00:05:44,205 ivy on it and it had a door that led out to a Big, paved garden. 89 00:05:44,535 --> 00:05:47,115 Margaux Vialleron: I think that was the thing I loved the most about this kitchen. 90 00:05:47,695 --> 00:05:48,585 It had a door. 91 00:05:48,835 --> 00:05:51,305 I could close it and it became a room of my own. 92 00:05:51,575 --> 00:05:55,505 Ruby Mason: Kitchen had a, had like a bright purple, yellow and blue and red 93 00:05:55,515 --> 00:05:59,145 mosaic all over kind of half of the walls. 94 00:05:59,265 --> 00:06:00,445 Kind of loved it, kind of hated it. 95 00:06:01,090 --> 00:06:05,320 Other than that, it was just kind of a space where over the years we 96 00:06:05,320 --> 00:06:09,060 gathered a lot as kind of a changing shared flat with various flatmates. 97 00:06:09,520 --> 00:06:12,300 Stephen Rötzsch Thomas: The sink was huge and ceramic and could fit 98 00:06:12,330 --> 00:06:14,200 in anything you needed it to fit. 99 00:06:15,830 --> 00:06:20,529 The oven was a big gas range. 100 00:06:20,900 --> 00:06:25,930 My first time cooking with gas since I'd been a student and I really didn't have 101 00:06:25,930 --> 00:06:29,780 any idea just how sticky it could get the things around it, but I loved it. 102 00:06:29,780 --> 00:06:31,330 I loved cooking in that place. 103 00:06:31,830 --> 00:06:34,219 This was, this was a space that had been planned. 104 00:06:34,550 --> 00:06:37,310 Maria Agiomyrgiannaki: So before we moved in, we asked the landlord to 105 00:06:37,310 --> 00:06:40,690 put two big shelves up on one wall. 106 00:06:40,965 --> 00:06:47,045 And one shelf ended up having all of my spices and herbs and the other shelf was 107 00:06:47,075 --> 00:06:52,305 all my various um dried beans and pulses that I bring back from home from Crete. 108 00:06:52,795 --> 00:06:58,555 Once the lockdowns were over and the rules eased then we started hosting people in 109 00:06:58,555 --> 00:07:04,025 the garden and the kitchen was always a massive mess but it was a haven really. 110 00:07:04,085 --> 00:07:06,945 Ruby Mason: I was there for five years but I used to hang out there before I 111 00:07:06,945 --> 00:07:08,795 moved in because my friends lived there. 112 00:07:09,045 --> 00:07:09,875 Parties. 113 00:07:10,175 --> 00:07:12,455 An improbable number of people would cram into that kitchen. 114 00:07:13,045 --> 00:07:15,775 Lucy Dearlove: I think about a birthday party at my old flat. 115 00:07:16,505 --> 00:07:19,495 Everyone in the living room while my friend and I are squirreled away 116 00:07:19,495 --> 00:07:23,995 in the kitchen, several drinks in, hysterically pulling pork with forks 117 00:07:23,995 --> 00:07:25,534 that I'd cooked in the instant pot. 118 00:07:26,494 --> 00:07:31,504 My friend was wearing a billowing pure white top and I'll never 119 00:07:31,504 --> 00:07:34,835 know how she didn't end up wearing the sauce the pork had cooked in. 120 00:07:39,905 --> 00:07:43,925 I had intended to cook something symbolic on our last night in the flat before the 121 00:07:43,925 --> 00:07:47,845 packing started, knowing we wouldn't be able to get in the kitchen after that. 122 00:07:48,735 --> 00:07:52,525 But after spending the afternoon eating a pub roast for a family birthday, neither 123 00:07:52,525 --> 00:07:55,824 of us had the energy or the inclination to figure out what to cook, it. 124 00:07:57,230 --> 00:08:00,220 And so Rory ordered take away from a nearby Jamaican place. 125 00:08:00,630 --> 00:08:03,420 An earlier take away from the same shop was actually the first 126 00:08:03,460 --> 00:08:04,600 meal we'd eaten in the flat. 127 00:08:05,620 --> 00:08:09,220 I didn't move in then because we hadn't been together long, but Rory invited 128 00:08:09,220 --> 00:08:12,669 me round with his friend and we ate jerk lamb and rice and peas sitting 129 00:08:12,669 --> 00:08:15,979 on some Ikea cushions on the floor because Rory hadn't bought a sofa yet. 130 00:08:17,629 --> 00:08:20,420 Not that long after that, we spontaneously got engaged. 131 00:08:21,775 --> 00:08:24,535 After a night out in Deptford, there's a lot of life here. 132 00:08:26,385 --> 00:08:30,185 Unfortunately, the takeaway isn't as good now as it was then, and we had to 133 00:08:30,185 --> 00:08:34,305 eat it in bed because the living room was full of boxes, piled to the ceiling. 134 00:08:35,564 --> 00:08:39,694 Maria Agiomyrgiannaki: One more thread, I guess, that run through all 135 00:08:39,694 --> 00:08:45,430 these four years of us living there were, was My, um, my tomato e eggs. 136 00:08:45,780 --> 00:08:49,290 So, and lots and lots of different variations of like, type of 137 00:08:49,380 --> 00:08:56,130 scrambled tomato, e eggs, shaka type eggs, menna type tomato, e eggs. 138 00:08:56,130 --> 00:09:01,340 So lots of different, um, brunch variations of these eggs, those kind of 139 00:09:01,345 --> 00:09:05,480 tomatoey scrambled eggs was the first thing that I learned to cook as a, as a 140 00:09:05,480 --> 00:09:08,480 kid, uh, from my maternal grandmother. 141 00:09:09,460 --> 00:09:15,670 The next question you ask is the last meal I ate there and I think most 142 00:09:15,670 --> 00:09:19,790 probably it might have been a version of those eggs, some tomato y eggs, 143 00:09:19,790 --> 00:09:22,680 so you know everything being packed. 144 00:09:22,749 --> 00:09:25,110 Matthew Curtis: Everything was in boxes and we ordered a KFC. 145 00:09:25,620 --> 00:09:33,050 Um, and just ate chicken and, and dunked hunks of chicken in delicious 146 00:09:33,050 --> 00:09:38,469 gravy, ate some chips, and had a couple of beers, and that was fine. 147 00:09:38,499 --> 00:09:39,419 It seemed fitting. 148 00:09:39,459 --> 00:09:42,570 It was a meal of, um, necessity. 149 00:09:42,750 --> 00:09:45,600 Margaux Vialleron: It was the last day in the kitchen. 150 00:09:45,740 --> 00:09:49,410 I had packed the house and in fact I had moved most of the stuff the day before. 151 00:09:49,829 --> 00:09:53,000 So I was just standing with the last few boxes and you know cleaning products 152 00:09:53,649 --> 00:09:58,169 and I had gone to the corner shop in the morning to grab one of those Activia pots 153 00:09:58,200 --> 00:10:02,280 to go because I needed something easy and that required no instances whatsoever. 154 00:10:03,520 --> 00:10:10,920 And I'm famously quite unlucky and the yogurt factory making industrial era 155 00:10:10,930 --> 00:10:12,779 failed me on this one, there was no spoon. 156 00:10:13,220 --> 00:10:18,130 So I just crawled through some glass boxes and found this wooden 157 00:10:18,130 --> 00:10:21,650 tong and just ate this yogurt out of this, standing in there. 158 00:10:22,149 --> 00:10:27,420 And, you know what, looking at it now, it's easier to mutate, I guess. 159 00:10:29,100 --> 00:10:29,770 with time. 160 00:10:30,460 --> 00:10:33,530 It was the best last meal I could have ever had there. 161 00:10:33,990 --> 00:10:38,020 It was, it was one of my own and I liked that. 162 00:10:39,080 --> 00:10:41,890 Stephen Rötzsch Thomas: The last meal I cooked there was apricot glazed 163 00:10:41,900 --> 00:10:47,309 hake and it was from Lurato's cookbook Africana which came out last year and 164 00:10:48,020 --> 00:10:51,910 has instantly become one of my favorite things to have nearby and to cook 165 00:10:51,910 --> 00:10:53,680 from almost every other week maybe. 166 00:10:56,145 --> 00:11:00,845 I liked how vivid the flavours were and it felt like a nice choice, a 167 00:11:00,865 --> 00:11:06,875 really comforting choice to close out that sort of chapter of cooking with. 168 00:11:07,355 --> 00:11:10,855 Ruby Mason: The week of my actual move I had food poisoning from Takeaway 169 00:11:10,855 --> 00:11:13,025 Sushi, which was pretty awful. 170 00:11:13,864 --> 00:11:18,385 So I think the very last meal I ate in that flat was probably like dry crackers. 171 00:11:19,325 --> 00:11:22,005 Lucy Dearlove: When the movers brought the boxes up to our new flat, I 172 00:11:22,005 --> 00:11:23,774 started unpacking almost straight away. 173 00:11:24,725 --> 00:11:28,675 The boxes they'd provided had writing on the side requesting you to cut, not 174 00:11:28,675 --> 00:11:32,785 rip off the tape sealing them, so that they could remain strong and be reused. 175 00:11:34,134 --> 00:11:37,835 The kitchen boxes, there were six or seven of them, were clearly 176 00:11:37,835 --> 00:11:39,055 labelled in black marker pen. 177 00:11:39,055 --> 00:11:41,195 Kitchen cups, etc. 178 00:11:43,024 --> 00:11:45,175 Kitchen cups, cutlery, etc. 179 00:11:46,395 --> 00:11:48,335 Kitchen pots, pans, etc. 180 00:11:49,635 --> 00:11:51,395 Kitchen various. 181 00:11:51,825 --> 00:11:54,444 Kitchen tins, trays, plastics. 182 00:11:57,145 --> 00:12:01,025 And inside everything was individually swaddled in sheets of off white recycled 183 00:12:01,045 --> 00:12:05,624 paper, which unfortunately the movers could not take back and reuse, so we 184 00:12:05,625 --> 00:12:07,045 were left with bags and bags of it. 185 00:12:09,505 --> 00:12:13,425 Everything that was in the boxes had been treated with the same delicacy, from 186 00:12:13,425 --> 00:12:18,005 practically unbreakable stoneware mugs, to precious fragile stemmed cocktail glasses. 187 00:12:18,645 --> 00:12:20,415 I found this surprisingly touching. 188 00:12:22,070 --> 00:12:26,450 It was around this time that I realised the full consequence of not dealing 189 00:12:26,450 --> 00:12:29,440 with the clearing out of the kitchen as thoroughly as the rest of the flat. 190 00:12:30,000 --> 00:12:34,750 I'm in trouble with Rory because I brought all the condiments from our old 191 00:12:34,760 --> 00:12:38,889 fridge and the fridge is literally full. 192 00:12:39,520 --> 00:12:40,240 It's, it's full. 193 00:12:40,280 --> 00:12:41,470 We don't even have any food in it. 194 00:12:41,490 --> 00:12:47,020 It's just like two bottles of wine and then 800 jars of chutney and sauce. 195 00:12:48,189 --> 00:12:50,889 So, I'm gonna have to do something about that. 196 00:12:57,870 --> 00:13:01,740 It's so weird because like, the fridge doesn't seem smaller than our 197 00:13:01,740 --> 00:13:04,220 old fridge and the freezer is like a fridge freezer and the freezer is 198 00:13:04,220 --> 00:13:05,569 actually bigger than our freezer. 199 00:13:07,295 --> 00:13:09,745 It's got an extra drawer, and it's definitely bigger, so I was like, 200 00:13:09,745 --> 00:13:13,025 great, the fridge is gonna be probably a bit bigger as well, but I 201 00:13:13,025 --> 00:13:17,125 don't know if it's just shallower or something, but it definitely feels a 202 00:13:17,145 --> 00:13:20,465 lot more full with those condiments in than my fridge, my old fridge did. 203 00:13:22,134 --> 00:13:26,034 I wanted to get on with it, have the boxes emptied, tape cut, flattened 204 00:13:26,034 --> 00:13:30,745 out, and collected so that life could start, but I wanted to do 205 00:13:30,745 --> 00:13:33,005 the unpacking well, get it right. 206 00:13:34,450 --> 00:13:37,600 And that felt like trying to figure out who my future self would be. 207 00:13:39,280 --> 00:13:42,460 What would she cook here, in this new kitchen, in this new town? 208 00:13:43,630 --> 00:13:44,729 Where should the spices go? 209 00:13:46,090 --> 00:13:47,270 Where should she put the toaster? 210 00:13:53,780 --> 00:13:59,670 Eli Davies: So what happened was, I started my PhD in the beginning of 211 00:13:59,670 --> 00:14:05,500 2017, essentially, and um, my PhD was looking at, it was a sort of 212 00:14:05,569 --> 00:14:09,680 literary, it was an interdisciplinary literature psychology project. 213 00:14:10,045 --> 00:14:11,855 about women's experiences with the troubles. 214 00:14:12,155 --> 00:14:16,475 It started off being about that, the big public narratives, so it was 215 00:14:16,475 --> 00:14:18,295 kind of trying to look at hidden... 216 00:14:19,345 --> 00:14:19,564 story. 217 00:14:20,445 --> 00:14:26,314 It's three months into my PhD, my, my 12 year relationship broke up. 218 00:14:26,314 --> 00:14:29,985 Lucy Dearlove: Eli Davies had been interested in domestic life and the 219 00:14:29,985 --> 00:14:33,375 home already as part of her doctoral research at Ulster University. 220 00:14:33,894 --> 00:14:37,835 But this dramatic life changing about face in her own circumstances 221 00:14:37,934 --> 00:14:41,325 forever changed how she looked at the environments we build around ourselves. 222 00:14:42,050 --> 00:14:48,750 Eli Davies: When I left my, the home that me and my partner shared, I walked 223 00:14:48,760 --> 00:14:52,039 away from all of the stuff that we'd built up, that we'd bought over the 224 00:14:52,039 --> 00:14:54,940 years, because I just couldn't face it. 225 00:14:54,940 --> 00:14:58,878 It was quite a painful process, and I just was like, I can't deal 226 00:14:58,878 --> 00:15:00,246 with this, you can take it all. 227 00:15:00,246 --> 00:15:04,540 Apart from a few choice things, like my Le Creuset, like, cats are old. 228 00:15:04,540 --> 00:15:07,160 I'm like, I'm like, I'm keeping that. 229 00:15:07,430 --> 00:15:16,660 Um, so, when I moved into my first sort of, My own close break up phone. 230 00:15:17,400 --> 00:15:22,880 I had to buy all of that stuff again I'm realizing, you know things like a cheese 231 00:15:22,890 --> 00:15:28,890 grater or a potato masher or you know, these things that you don't necessarily 232 00:15:30,210 --> 00:15:31,600 you forget that you're going to need. 233 00:15:31,950 --> 00:15:37,150 So that is obviously a really important part of the work of home building, 234 00:15:37,160 --> 00:15:39,050 which is a, which is, is work. 235 00:15:39,640 --> 00:15:43,929 Like it's not talked about enough as work, but it really takes a lot of 236 00:15:45,729 --> 00:15:50,529 emotional, physical energy to do it as well as money, as well as resources, as 237 00:15:50,899 --> 00:15:52,480 well as, you know, material resources. 238 00:15:52,730 --> 00:15:54,470 So there's that. 239 00:15:56,110 --> 00:15:56,570 And then. 240 00:15:58,190 --> 00:16:06,390 All of the kind of emotional layers of cooking and eating, which for me at that 241 00:16:06,390 --> 00:16:11,960 point, like in 20 17, 20 18, were very bound up with my relationship, you know, 242 00:16:12,400 --> 00:16:18,100 being in a relationship with a man, entertaining people, and I loved cooking 243 00:16:18,160 --> 00:16:20,020 and I really enjoyed doing all of that. 244 00:16:20,020 --> 00:16:24,220 But there was this, I was left with this like icky feeling about like, 245 00:16:24,550 --> 00:16:25,960 oh, what, what was I doing there? 246 00:16:25,960 --> 00:16:27,350 Like, I was performing as well. 247 00:16:27,824 --> 00:16:31,265 Very sort of Wifely role. 248 00:16:31,265 --> 00:16:34,895 Lucy Dearlove: Eli sent me an article she wrote about this for the literary 249 00:16:34,895 --> 00:16:37,175 magazine, the Tangerine in 2019. 250 00:16:38,154 --> 00:16:40,764 I occasionally curse the Eli of that moving out week. 251 00:16:40,795 --> 00:16:44,925 She writes, I make pasta one night, get out a block of cheese from the fridge 252 00:16:44,925 --> 00:16:46,514 and then remember, I don't have a grater. 253 00:16:47,015 --> 00:16:49,505 We had two in that last flat, I think ruly. 254 00:16:50,985 --> 00:16:54,415 This work of building a home can be a happy occasion, but 255 00:16:54,615 --> 00:16:56,075 it can also just be fraught. 256 00:16:57,035 --> 00:17:00,695 For Eli, constructing this space, both physically and metaphorically, 257 00:17:01,034 --> 00:17:05,035 meant mentally extricating herself from previous tensions within her 258 00:17:05,035 --> 00:17:08,925 domestic life, allowing her to reconstruct a home on her own terms. 259 00:17:09,095 --> 00:17:11,835 Eli Davies: I had this moment, and this was in the last house that I lived in in 260 00:17:11,845 --> 00:17:16,480 Belfast, actually, where I was watching a Jamie Oliver 15 minute meals or something. 261 00:17:16,480 --> 00:17:19,075 He was on the Food Network and I was just looking for something to... 262 00:17:19,705 --> 00:17:24,065 To watch, and he was getting some spices out from this kind of 263 00:17:24,194 --> 00:17:27,185 whole wall of drawers behind him. 264 00:17:28,475 --> 00:17:31,335 And I just, this feeling, this pang, I was like, I want that! 265 00:17:32,285 --> 00:17:34,155 And I was like, oh god, what's happening to me? 266 00:17:34,155 --> 00:17:38,355 Like, I'm craving all of these really sort of bourgeois, like, you know, kitchen, 267 00:17:38,774 --> 00:17:41,525 sort of Jamie Oliver esque, like... 268 00:17:46,985 --> 00:17:48,885 features, but it's like, you don't beat yourself up about it. 269 00:17:49,335 --> 00:17:51,985 Lucy Dearlove: Coming to accept that the kitchen was an important space for her 270 00:17:52,345 --> 00:17:57,375 meant kind of acknowledging and casting aside the baggage of previous homes 271 00:17:57,444 --> 00:18:01,274 and relationships, because it's home. 272 00:18:01,655 --> 00:18:07,085 Eli Davies: In the kind of fraught, this fraught process of home building, 273 00:18:07,735 --> 00:18:12,370 the kitchen is, I realise is the place where I can I can do that. 274 00:18:12,659 --> 00:18:18,120 I know how to do, you know, I know, I feel comfortable in that space, the living 275 00:18:18,120 --> 00:18:22,300 room, the bedroom, you know, putting up pictures, all of those things are very, 276 00:18:22,349 --> 00:18:26,920 very, I find very, very daunting tasks, I'll put those things off, you know, 277 00:18:26,920 --> 00:18:32,060 buying nice little cushions for the sofa, all of that, I feel quite comfortable. 278 00:18:33,180 --> 00:18:36,780 Stressful and overwhelming, but when it comes to the kitchen, 279 00:18:36,780 --> 00:18:39,210 you know, I've got like seven types of vinegar in my cupboard. 280 00:18:39,600 --> 00:18:40,350 I've got, you know, 281 00:18:41,430 --> 00:18:44,730 . Lucy Dearlove: Something Eli has also learned is the value of observing 282 00:18:44,730 --> 00:18:48,629 how other people build their own homes and their own kitchens. 283 00:18:48,629 --> 00:18:48,660 I 284 00:18:50,140 --> 00:18:53,050 Eli Davies: was living with, my parents live in Cardia for six months and I 285 00:18:53,050 --> 00:18:57,659 was back and forth to London quite a bit and there was very things like 286 00:18:57,659 --> 00:18:58,830 friends and friends with friends. 287 00:18:58,980 --> 00:18:59,370 Yeah. 288 00:18:59,610 --> 00:19:02,840 That enabled me to kind of spend some time in London. 289 00:19:04,110 --> 00:19:08,131 And that was so fascinating, going into different people's kitchens, because 290 00:19:08,131 --> 00:19:11,410 that obviously, again, like, that's where I want to get sorted, you know, 291 00:19:11,410 --> 00:19:14,770 I want to work out, like, I'm going to make my meals and, you know, and what 292 00:19:14,779 --> 00:19:16,170 store cupboard things they've got. 293 00:19:17,290 --> 00:19:24,160 And that was just so interesting, like, looking at how the kitchen was a sort 294 00:19:24,160 --> 00:19:26,670 of window into, like, what people value 295 00:19:29,800 --> 00:19:35,100 and how important cooking is, obviously, but also What kind of cooking they do, 296 00:19:35,110 --> 00:19:38,540 and who they're cooking, and who's being cooked for, who's doing the cooking. 297 00:19:38,649 --> 00:19:39,139 Yeah. 298 00:19:39,230 --> 00:19:45,459 Um, and also things, like, I hope I'm not sort of publicly shaming anyone. 299 00:19:46,979 --> 00:19:51,700 Well, I'm not naming, no names, but like, there's this thing that I noticed, and you 300 00:19:51,700 --> 00:19:55,215 know, I feel like there's a lot of shame around home building as well, like people 301 00:19:55,215 --> 00:19:57,703 feel like I'm not doing it properly. 302 00:19:57,703 --> 00:19:58,769 Agreed, yeah, yeah. 303 00:19:58,769 --> 00:20:03,620 Domesticity is this thing, you know, there's this ideal that's sort of held up. 304 00:20:03,759 --> 00:20:04,100 Yeah. 305 00:20:04,100 --> 00:20:04,519 Yeah. 306 00:20:07,040 --> 00:20:10,260 That people feel constantly that they're failing to live up to and again I think 307 00:20:10,410 --> 00:20:13,250 this isn't really talked about very much, you know, and it is it comes in 308 00:20:13,250 --> 00:20:18,670 the minutiae Stuff, you know, and so I don't know if you have this but you know, 309 00:20:18,670 --> 00:20:21,870 I'm like the cutlery drawer You open the cutlery drawer, the cutlery drawer 310 00:20:21,920 --> 00:20:28,100 gets filled up with crap like little crumbs Dust and food debris and, you 311 00:20:28,100 --> 00:20:32,230 know, and like, I always, oh my god, it's disgusting I've been thinking about this. 312 00:20:32,230 --> 00:20:32,940 Everyone has that. 313 00:20:32,940 --> 00:20:33,269 That's so reassuring. 314 00:20:33,850 --> 00:20:33,870 Yeah. 315 00:20:41,800 --> 00:20:44,749 Lucy Dearlove: When I moved out of my old flat, we had to hoover it out. 316 00:20:44,820 --> 00:20:45,780 I was like, this is so bad. 317 00:20:46,230 --> 00:20:47,500 Yeah, yeah, yeah, I've done that, yeah. 318 00:20:49,555 --> 00:20:51,895 But yeah, that's so true, yeah. 319 00:20:51,955 --> 00:20:52,315 Surely 320 00:20:52,315 --> 00:20:56,035 Eli Davies: everyone, maybe, you know, maybe most people week, clear 321 00:20:56,035 --> 00:20:59,045 out the cutlery drawer on a weekly basis and get rid of all that, 322 00:20:59,045 --> 00:21:00,754 all of that, you know, debris. 323 00:21:00,755 --> 00:21:01,095 And, and, 324 00:21:02,244 --> 00:21:03,134 Lucy Dearlove: no, they don't. 325 00:21:03,715 --> 00:21:07,320 The thing that I keep coming back to in Eli's work that really strikes 326 00:21:07,320 --> 00:21:10,900 a chord with me, particularly how she writes around home building, 327 00:21:10,910 --> 00:21:14,230 is this idea of it being work. 328 00:21:14,610 --> 00:21:18,869 And sometimes it feels like work that we're not allowed to acknowledge or 329 00:21:18,870 --> 00:21:24,950 talk about as work, but it's also at the same time all consuming. 330 00:21:25,290 --> 00:21:29,027 Eli Davies: That thing of the work of it, you know, of moving into a new 331 00:21:29,027 --> 00:21:31,240 place, especially when you're starting from scratch, which is what I was 332 00:21:31,240 --> 00:21:37,029 doing back in 2018 when I started anew, you know, that relationship broke up. 333 00:21:37,814 --> 00:21:41,665 Um, I think that really isn't thought about enough, like how 334 00:21:41,695 --> 00:21:48,135 much, sort of, work, money, effort, thought, you know, it all requires. 335 00:21:48,135 --> 00:21:51,304 And once you've done it, like, as Sandra Lindsay said, I mean, I did actually, 336 00:21:51,314 --> 00:21:55,094 when I was moving out of my last flat in Belfast, I was, I was, you know, 337 00:21:55,324 --> 00:21:58,704 unpacking things and, um, packing things up, wherever, and getting, 338 00:21:59,124 --> 00:22:00,274 emptying out my kitchen cupboards. 339 00:22:00,274 --> 00:22:05,365 And I, it felt like this, and I was using, trying to use up things 340 00:22:06,215 --> 00:22:09,734 from the freezer, use up, you know, things that I didn't, wasn't able to. 341 00:22:10,524 --> 00:22:14,735 And that felt really sad, that's what, I got really emotional about that. 342 00:22:14,824 --> 00:22:18,294 And again, it wasn't, I only lived in that flat for a year, it wasn't somewhere 343 00:22:18,294 --> 00:22:24,354 that I had, had, you know, had particular recognition, you know, for me, my life. 344 00:22:24,835 --> 00:22:26,235 But the kitchen was... 345 00:22:26,750 --> 00:22:32,969 Somewhere that was clearly like, you know, important, you know, and I got really 346 00:22:32,969 --> 00:22:36,580 emotional that this has been a really important space, you know, here and um, 347 00:22:37,010 --> 00:22:43,219 and I'm turning it down and taking it apart and that is, yeah, that felt sad. 348 00:22:43,689 --> 00:22:47,329 Another place I moved out was this really shitty place I was telling you about that, 349 00:22:50,869 --> 00:22:53,655 you know, was not I got really emotional when I turned the fridge off. 350 00:22:54,395 --> 00:22:57,915 Like I got, I got, I got really tearful about it. 351 00:22:57,985 --> 00:22:59,824 I was like, what the hell is going on? 352 00:23:17,105 --> 00:23:20,304 Lucy Dearlove: The new kitchen is separate, square, with 353 00:23:20,304 --> 00:23:22,064 cabinets arranged in a U shape. 354 00:23:23,465 --> 00:23:25,924 The new kitchen is slightly bigger than the old kitchen. 355 00:23:26,484 --> 00:23:28,465 Two people could cook in here comfortably. 356 00:23:28,855 --> 00:23:29,965 Without it being a total nightmare. 357 00:23:31,005 --> 00:23:32,514 The new kitchen is all white. 358 00:23:32,915 --> 00:23:34,275 White gloss cabinets. 359 00:23:34,375 --> 00:23:35,514 White surfaces. 360 00:23:35,665 --> 00:23:36,514 White sink. 361 00:23:36,915 --> 00:23:37,955 White draining rack. 362 00:23:40,095 --> 00:23:43,335 There's something that's nice about it in the sense that it 363 00:23:43,344 --> 00:23:45,265 feels good to have a blank slate. 364 00:23:45,935 --> 00:23:47,345 But I miss the orange kitchen. 365 00:23:48,404 --> 00:23:52,345 We've already stained the white surfaces, the white sink, the white draining rack 366 00:23:52,385 --> 00:23:57,225 with squeezed out tea bags, coffee grinds and drips and tinned tomato spills. 367 00:23:58,395 --> 00:24:01,355 I'd be lying if I said that we hadn't cursed someone else's 368 00:24:01,355 --> 00:24:03,035 choices in designing this kitchen. 369 00:24:04,695 --> 00:24:07,165 Like the old one, there's no room for a table in here. 370 00:24:08,035 --> 00:24:10,414 The best thing about the new kitchen is that it has a window. 371 00:24:11,314 --> 00:24:14,175 I've become paralysed with possibility about what herbs 372 00:24:14,175 --> 00:24:15,355 I could grow on the ledge. 373 00:24:16,055 --> 00:24:19,450 And more importantly, The natural light means I can take photos of 374 00:24:19,490 --> 00:24:21,010 my food that actually look nice. 375 00:24:21,510 --> 00:24:27,390 Stephen Rötzsch Thomas: The house we're buying, we know the one we're buying, 376 00:24:27,390 --> 00:24:30,900 we're just waiting for everything to work out and do what it needs to do. 377 00:24:31,429 --> 00:24:36,239 One of the defining features of this house is, is the opposite 378 00:24:36,279 --> 00:24:39,840 of what was the defining feature that drew me into the last house. 379 00:24:40,430 --> 00:24:45,050 Which is to say that this house that we are buying does not have a kitchen. 380 00:24:46,169 --> 00:24:46,689 Or it does. 381 00:24:46,699 --> 00:24:50,060 It has the room, it has the kitchen as a room, and it has 382 00:24:50,090 --> 00:24:51,469 an oven, and it has a sink. 383 00:24:51,489 --> 00:24:53,810 But the oven is a billion years old. 384 00:24:54,239 --> 00:24:56,919 The sink is absolutely disgusting. 385 00:24:57,210 --> 00:25:01,919 Everything about that kitchen, the moment we get in there, will have 386 00:25:01,919 --> 00:25:04,400 to be built again from scratch. 387 00:25:04,809 --> 00:25:07,029 Margaux Vialleron: We've now found somewhere else to rent, and 388 00:25:07,029 --> 00:25:10,639 there is a kitchen again, which I feel extremely lucky about, and 389 00:25:10,639 --> 00:25:12,219 privileged to have this again. 390 00:25:13,355 --> 00:25:15,135 The one thing is, there is no door. 391 00:25:16,275 --> 00:25:18,375 There is no door, it's an open kitchen. 392 00:25:18,514 --> 00:25:20,014 It's, it's a wall really. 393 00:25:20,475 --> 00:25:22,575 Matthew Curtis: The kitchen hasn't been updated. 394 00:25:22,585 --> 00:25:24,005 It's like, it's a miner's cottage. 395 00:25:24,105 --> 00:25:25,105 The house has a cellar. 396 00:25:25,324 --> 00:25:31,054 It's a very small kitchen and it has a cooker, a gas cooker and I think 397 00:25:31,055 --> 00:25:33,345 it might be about 30 or 40 years old. 398 00:25:33,665 --> 00:25:38,095 You have to light the oven with a lighter by turning the gas on and 399 00:25:38,095 --> 00:25:39,705 sticking your hand in the back. 400 00:25:40,080 --> 00:25:43,909 And, you know what, we've spent all our money, so we have to learn how to use it. 401 00:25:44,010 --> 00:25:47,969 Because, it'll be, you know, a few months or maybe a year or more 402 00:25:47,969 --> 00:25:49,880 before we can afford to replace it. 403 00:25:50,419 --> 00:25:53,790 Because we own it, we've painted it this dark olive green. 404 00:25:54,040 --> 00:25:59,340 So like the outside is coming in and that at once makes me feel 405 00:25:59,340 --> 00:26:01,189 like I want to spend time in there. 406 00:26:01,689 --> 00:26:05,399 Ruby Mason: My new kitchen is, yeah, it's the first time 407 00:26:05,399 --> 00:26:06,909 I've ever had my own kitchen. 408 00:26:06,979 --> 00:26:08,509 I mean, it's still a rented flat. 409 00:26:08,629 --> 00:26:13,009 In, in Germany and in Berlin where I live, it's pretty common for rented 410 00:26:13,009 --> 00:26:15,100 flats to not have kitchens in them. 411 00:26:15,110 --> 00:26:16,110 So even as a tenant. 412 00:26:16,565 --> 00:26:19,895 You fit the kitchen and like the cabinets and everything yourself when you move in, 413 00:26:20,625 --> 00:26:25,624 which might sound a bit strange from, from like a UK perspective, but on the flip 414 00:26:25,625 --> 00:26:28,065 side, tenancies are very secure here, so. 415 00:26:28,795 --> 00:26:32,615 You usually sign a lease for like an unlimited amount of time and you 416 00:26:32,615 --> 00:26:37,284 can't, you can't really be evicted So you expect to stay kind of for many 417 00:26:37,284 --> 00:26:41,205 years and get your money's worth of your things So so my new kitchen is 418 00:26:41,205 --> 00:26:45,324 green, which I love and yeah, I'm still getting used to having my own kitchen. 419 00:26:45,324 --> 00:26:49,155 It feels luxurious and extravagant in a strange way. 420 00:26:49,585 --> 00:26:51,545 All the fridge space and cupboard space. 421 00:26:51,985 --> 00:26:56,635 Stephen Rötzsch Thomas: The week before we moved out of our house, even though I'm 422 00:26:56,635 --> 00:27:02,005 still waiting, even for the mortgage to be sort of confirmed, I went to the estate 423 00:27:02,005 --> 00:27:05,135 agent and I asked if they would let me into the house that we're looking to buy. 424 00:27:05,144 --> 00:27:10,185 And I took a tape measure and I measured that kitchen and I have 425 00:27:10,185 --> 00:27:13,555 all of that written down so I can eventually start planning. 426 00:27:13,555 --> 00:27:15,305 I don't know how I'm going to plan a kitchen. 427 00:27:16,475 --> 00:27:18,655 I mean, I know there's going to be tools online, but. 428 00:27:19,235 --> 00:27:21,475 I'm still in a space where I think the best way to do it is just 429 00:27:21,475 --> 00:27:22,835 to go on The Sims or something. 430 00:27:24,845 --> 00:27:28,895 The kitchen has a terracotta floor that is old and tatty and needs a lot of 431 00:27:28,895 --> 00:27:30,575 love, but I'm gonna give it that love. 432 00:27:31,194 --> 00:27:34,475 And I'm excited to have a kitchen that is my own. 433 00:27:34,524 --> 00:27:39,325 Maria Agiomyrgiannaki: We moved into a flat in a new development in Walthamstow. 434 00:27:40,225 --> 00:27:46,345 So the kitchen is a big space, together with the living room and the dining room. 435 00:27:46,915 --> 00:27:54,695 It does feel a little bit silly, because we moved out of the old flat. 436 00:27:54,854 --> 00:27:58,235 Uh, because we had leak, we had rising damp. 437 00:27:58,235 --> 00:28:04,195 It was just really months on end of a nightmare situation with the landlord. 438 00:28:04,254 --> 00:28:08,525 And the kitchen was kind of, walls were crumbling and everything, so. 439 00:28:09,175 --> 00:28:17,065 cupboards stinking of moulds and just, so this is why this feels, um, stupid 440 00:28:17,075 --> 00:28:21,685 because the new kitchen obviously none of that mould smell none of any of 441 00:28:21,685 --> 00:28:24,595 that but the old kitchen I do miss it. 442 00:28:25,174 --> 00:28:30,584 It feels like I had arranged it how I wanted it to be with the furniture 443 00:28:30,584 --> 00:28:35,520 and with the shelving and everything So And the new kitchen, it feels like 444 00:28:35,990 --> 00:28:39,560 this is it, and I have to adopt it, and I have to make it work, basically. 445 00:28:39,560 --> 00:28:43,440 So, and I can't quite describe what I miss. 446 00:28:43,459 --> 00:28:46,269 It's quite visceral, I think. 447 00:28:46,349 --> 00:28:49,729 But I think I miss the kitchen like it was a person that I 448 00:28:49,739 --> 00:28:51,480 haven't seen in a long time. 449 00:28:52,129 --> 00:28:56,090 And I think there is, it's because of the emotional connection. 450 00:28:56,295 --> 00:29:03,795 of how much went, how much time, how much connection, how much, I don't know. 451 00:29:03,855 --> 00:29:09,825 The first meal we ate there in the new flat was some souvlaki that we ordered in. 452 00:29:10,274 --> 00:29:13,454 So just after the, uh, the move. 453 00:29:14,000 --> 00:29:17,770 Yeah, just to share some food with the friends that helped us move. 454 00:29:18,140 --> 00:29:20,560 We ordered some local souvlaki. 455 00:29:20,620 --> 00:29:23,799 Margaux Vialleron: The first meal I made there is a big, big pot of 456 00:29:23,830 --> 00:29:28,130 orzo, which is also my favorite, orzo with some grated courgette. 457 00:29:28,230 --> 00:29:32,449 The trick is to have it one yellow and two greens, a bit of parmesan and 458 00:29:32,449 --> 00:29:37,360 some oat cream to make it very smushy, and that's also a great meal to share. 459 00:29:37,700 --> 00:29:39,710 I think this kitchen is gonna be about sharing, 460 00:29:39,920 --> 00:29:40,850 Matthew Curtis: was unpacking everything. 461 00:29:40,850 --> 00:29:44,110 I got the frying pan outta the box and I fried an egg and I got 462 00:29:44,110 --> 00:29:47,780 a loaf of Warburtons and I didn't even do anything to the bread. 463 00:29:47,780 --> 00:29:50,149 Just a fresh loaf of very soft white bread. 464 00:29:50,180 --> 00:29:52,340 The plainest pillows bread. 465 00:29:52,980 --> 00:29:56,420 I fried an egg over easy in olive oil. 466 00:29:56,985 --> 00:30:01,705 And I put that in the sandwich, oil splashing onto the bread, and then 467 00:30:01,705 --> 00:30:04,955 I got some daddy's ketchup, which is a bit more acidic than most of the 468 00:30:04,955 --> 00:30:08,255 ketchups, I don't know if you've compared ketchups, and I bought it because it 469 00:30:08,255 --> 00:30:12,105 was a pound cheaper than Heinz, and I'm like, oh yeah, that'll save me a quid. 470 00:30:12,525 --> 00:30:14,305 Anyway, fried egg sandwich. 471 00:30:14,725 --> 00:30:18,905 on plain Warburton's white bread, toasty, specifically, with 472 00:30:18,905 --> 00:30:20,095 loads of daddy's ketchup on it. 473 00:30:20,275 --> 00:30:23,405 And that was the first thing I cooked in this kitchen 474 00:30:23,405 --> 00:30:25,775 surrounded by our lives in boxes. 475 00:30:25,955 --> 00:30:27,865 And, I don't know, there's something nice. 476 00:30:27,885 --> 00:30:29,505 It was like, it was a breakfast meal. 477 00:30:29,565 --> 00:30:34,115 I think that's a nice start to cooking in a house, like, okay, I've got gas 478 00:30:34,115 --> 00:30:36,115 coming out the hob, I'm gonna fry an egg. 479 00:30:36,305 --> 00:30:39,355 Ruby Mason: Yeah, I remember, I remember when I moved in and I was kind of still 480 00:30:39,385 --> 00:30:47,225 doing some DIY on the flat, my partner and I bought rye crackers and, cheddar cheese, 481 00:30:47,235 --> 00:30:50,425 which is relatively hard to find here, but we found some really nice mature cheddar 482 00:30:50,425 --> 00:30:56,555 cheese, a jar of, um, Spreewald pickles, basically gherkins that are like grown in 483 00:30:56,785 --> 00:31:02,255 the Spreewald, which is close to Berlin, a very iconic German, German thing, and had 484 00:31:02,255 --> 00:31:05,585 a lot of meals of those, like with those three components, crackers, cheese and, 485 00:31:05,605 --> 00:31:07,535 and pickles, which is very satisfying. 486 00:31:08,015 --> 00:31:09,475 Stephen Rötzsch Thomas: I don't know what I'm going to cook the first. 487 00:31:09,930 --> 00:31:13,660 The first time I get a chance to cook in there, the first time after I've put 488 00:31:13,680 --> 00:31:18,720 in an oven and put in counters and put in cupboards and put all my food and 489 00:31:18,720 --> 00:31:24,770 my billions of pans and stupid things. 490 00:31:26,510 --> 00:31:30,480 Once I've shipped in 150 cookbooks and put them in the bookshelves and next room 491 00:31:30,480 --> 00:31:32,340 over because they will not fit otherwise. 492 00:31:34,600 --> 00:31:40,670 I'm fairly sure, whatever I am cooking, it won't be a cookbook, 493 00:31:40,670 --> 00:31:41,600 it might just be a risotto. 494 00:31:46,110 --> 00:31:49,030 Lucy Dearlove: The first meal we ate in the new flat wasn't when we cooked either. 495 00:31:50,495 --> 00:31:52,865 Around 5pm, Friends rang the doorbell. 496 00:31:53,345 --> 00:31:57,175 It was the first time we'd heard it, and came up with bags of KFC. 497 00:31:58,235 --> 00:32:01,175 We didn't have any dining chairs, so we sat on the sofa that we'd 498 00:32:01,175 --> 00:32:02,885 bought off the previous inhabitants. 499 00:32:03,885 --> 00:32:07,435 I hadn't unpacked the plates yet, so we ate drumsticks, wings and 500 00:32:07,435 --> 00:32:09,295 thighs out of Denby cereal bowls. 501 00:32:10,345 --> 00:32:13,755 I'm several weeks into this new kitchen now, and I'm still finding 502 00:32:13,755 --> 00:32:16,025 my way around it, learning the moves. 503 00:32:16,620 --> 00:32:21,590 Even though I'm the one who unpacked, who drew the map of the new territory. 504 00:32:24,810 --> 00:32:28,580 I don't feel settled as such, not yet, but I feel excited. 505 00:32:30,480 --> 00:32:35,280 Lecker is written and produced by Lucy Dearlove. 506 00:32:38,220 --> 00:32:39,964 Thank you so much to Ruby. 507 00:32:39,975 --> 00:32:44,175 Margot, Stephen, Matt and Maria who generously contributed their 508 00:32:44,195 --> 00:32:48,305 stories of moving kitchens via voice notes and audio recordings. 509 00:32:48,355 --> 00:32:52,035 You can find links to all of them in the show notes and you can also read 510 00:32:52,115 --> 00:32:55,895 their contributions at greater length on the Lekker substack this week. 511 00:33:04,385 --> 00:33:08,155 Also a huge thanks to Eli Davies who was kind enough to speak to me about 512 00:33:08,215 --> 00:33:12,895 her work around home building for this episode and whose contributions were just 513 00:33:12,905 --> 00:33:15,245 so thought provoking and interesting. 514 00:33:15,645 --> 00:33:17,025 I'm so excited to read. 515 00:33:17,095 --> 00:33:19,975 more of her work around this subject in the future, I'll link to some 516 00:33:19,985 --> 00:33:21,125 of her writing in the show notes. 517 00:33:21,815 --> 00:33:24,255 You can also read a longer version of that conversation on the Lekker Substack 518 00:33:24,255 --> 00:33:26,685 2 that'll be coming this week as well. 519 00:33:28,285 --> 00:33:31,135 I can't and shouldn't talk about kitchens without mentioning the 520 00:33:31,135 --> 00:33:35,025 entire series I did a couple of years ago about this very topic. 521 00:33:35,355 --> 00:33:36,915 Kitchens are very much still on my mind. 522 00:33:37,335 --> 00:33:40,205 You can go back and listen to that via the Lekker website. 523 00:33:40,450 --> 00:33:44,900 Or you can find it in the feed on whatever podcast platform you listen to. 524 00:33:45,330 --> 00:33:48,410 There's also a print scene that I edited to go alongside that series 525 00:33:48,420 --> 00:33:52,440 with lots of writing and illustration and thinking around kitchens. 526 00:33:53,120 --> 00:33:56,190 It's been unavailable to buy for a little while while I've been moving, 527 00:33:56,650 --> 00:34:00,290 but I've just reactivated the big cartel, so you can order it there. 528 00:34:00,290 --> 00:34:01,700 Link, as ever, is in the show notes. 529 00:34:04,700 --> 00:34:06,960 A reminder that Lecker is listener supported. 530 00:34:07,020 --> 00:34:10,030 If you're in a position to donate regularly or one off, it is. 531 00:34:10,155 --> 00:34:13,995 Hugely appreciated and helps me cover costs and keep the podcast going. 532 00:34:14,575 --> 00:34:18,235 You can sign up via Substack, Patreon, or Apple Podcasts, and you 533 00:34:18,235 --> 00:34:20,575 get access to some bonus content. 534 00:34:20,665 --> 00:34:23,955 There'll be more subscriber episodes starting this month, so you can 535 00:34:23,955 --> 00:34:25,605 access them on all of those platforms. 536 00:34:27,345 --> 00:34:29,295 Music is by Blue Dot Sessions. 537 00:34:31,315 --> 00:34:34,635 And thanks so much to you, as always, for listening.