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related to mental health and may be activating for some viewers.

We encourage you to take care of yourself. for support and resources.

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Please visit BEAM.COMMUNITY/GETHELPNOW

Hey, what's up, everybody?

I'm YOLO. And I'm Natalie. And this is Black Healing Remix, the podcast.

(music plays)

Well, really, the opportunity is to think about

what does sex and what is intimacy do in a relationship, right?

What does that do to our emotional wellness?

And, you know, obviously we ain’t always datin’ probably the best people

we should be dating. Speak for yourself.

Natalie: Okay, I’m not always...

My statement, I get it. Ok...

Um, you know, I think when we look back at our dating history,

our lovers, the people that we've been intimate with, sometimes

there's a lot of distress that comes out of these unstable relationships.

A lack of communication, a lack of clarity and transparency.

I know that in my early twenties, dating was a hot mess, right?

And as I've gotten older, I've been able to make better choices.

But that doesn't mean that there's not stuff

that comes up in the context of dating, relationships and sex.

And so, how do we talk about our mental health in connection

to the lovers we take I know or the choices we make to not take?

I know I would love to begin this conversation with thinking about

what are some of the primary factors that lead us to choose partners we choose.

I'm thinking about like, you know, from a psychological perspective, right?

Like how we often are attracted to people who often imbue patterns or behaviors

that are similar

to those of the primary caregivers we grew up around.

Meaning we datin’

the people that are like our family, like our parents, right?

Or other people might be an aunty, might be like an uncle or

Whoever is the people that brought you up

Yeah.

Sometimes that becomes the comfort, the norm for us.

And if we're not working to unpack that,

then oftentimes it shows up in our romantic relationships

Because we kind of we embody what has been modeled for us.

Natalie: Absolutely

Right, and so we often sometimes will take on the roles of one of the primary

caregivers. Or sometimes, you know, in different dynamics.

And some of those dynamics, unfortunately, aren't always healthy.

Aren’t always loving.

And if you don't

have the if

you don't have the skills, tools or resources to be able to discern, like,

why am I attracted to these kinds of people, why am I choosing these people?

It's not an attraction

Because we attracted a whole bunch of people, but who do I choose?

That's the important piece.

And why do I keep choosing them?

And what is that about for me?

And I think the additional layer

and I think, you know, as a, as a person who has been cultured as a woman,

it's actually not been taught to me that I get to choose.

But that it's actually about me being chosen.

And so who likes me best, right?

And so sometimes it's the love bombing,right?

It's the person who will be obsessed with you,

which we obviously in later years, you realize, like, whoa, that is not it.

Right?

But in my early twenties, in my teens, it was whoever showed me the most attention.

Then I was like, “Oh, I got to date this person.”

“Oh, they like me.”

I'm obligated to like them back simply because they like me,

as opposed to what I learned later where I get to choose.

And also, what does that mean, right?

When we do get to choose and we are aware of that,

what is the societal pressure that comes with

You better choose the right thing.

Right.

And all of those layers

And it's no different for you as a woman, and me, as a queer person, right?

Like having receiving like zero

to none to zero messaging around relationships and dynamics, right?

Like, I mean, I can look at my relationship history

and see clear delineations connected to, you know, the people who raised me.

I can see how one partner in particular,

you know, I in that relationship, I walked on eggshells around him.

He had an explosive temper,

but that felt familiar to what I grew up with.

You're like, I know how to navigate this.

And so and also, as in my own little inner child was deeply in that relationship

because, you know, as a child, I thought I was responsible

for the anger of the people, the adults in my life.

And it was something that I was bad, why they were kind of like explosive.

And so in their relationship, I found myself in this dynamic

with this man where he was explosive all the time and I felt responsible.

And he,

through his own stuff, made me responsible for every explosive moment he had.

And so here I am, caught up in this trauma bond, essentially, right?

Where it feels...and I think one thing people talk about, like you can be

in these really, quote-unquote, we could say toxic dynamics.

But they also feel like home and they feel familiar.

Absolutely.

They feel like the shame you know. They can feel, the unpredictability of them

the way this wavering like is up and down, that even that that wave

can be something you can become very enmeshed in

and like and crave

And give you purpose.

In many ways. If you don't have

other things that feel pressing and important and compelling.

Now this drama

and now this churning in the relationship becomes the thing that gives you purpose.

“Oh, well,

I know I have to call them at this time because if I don't, they get upset.”

Right?

All of these different pieces where it's like, “Oh, huh, that's a dynamic.”

And when we look back, there's probably a connection between the dynamics

that we're currently experiencing or maybe previously experiencing to our

home life.

Yeah, I mean, like for me, also another dynamic in relationships is

I learned very early on that

to appease and dismiss

my experience in the favor of men's anger.

Right.

That would that

if men were where men were angry then like it didn't matter what I felt,

it was really what they needed.

I mean, not I hear you on this one because for me it's about safety.

If a man gets angry,

what is my physical safety like?

So I just de-escalate to be safe and I circle back when I got to strategy

about how I'm going to do this and navigate this right.

And so I think many of us are cultured in this way of like

if a man, particularly is upset now becomes a physical threat

and that becomes the dominating thing or the dominating voice

doesn't matter actually, what the logistics of the situation were.

If I'm legitimate in feeling whatever, because we know

our feelings are valid, right?

Even if the dynamics are murky, how I feel is actually valid.

Equally yours too.

But we know that that doesn't always play out

when we think about gender, when we think about physical size,

when we think about all of inner strength and all of those different things,

it gets muddy.

It does get muddy.

I think about the ways in which there were men in my community who

had tempers, which I think connected to depression and a lot of other things.

that were navigating, right? Pressures in society.

The ways also I was taught

very early on to dismiss and pretend like it's not as bad as you think it is.

And I see that with a lot of families I work with.

The communities we work with is that, it's like you have

it's not even just know as it's a man, it's not his mom, it's whoever.

But thes coping strategy is to pretend that it's not that bad.

And then like ending up in relationships where you learn to gaslight yourself

the same way you were gaslit by the people around you to be like, It's not that bad

when he or she or they are doing something abusive, harmful, hurtful to you.

You know, because it becomes the threshold and standard.

Right?

And this important piece to today,

when you’re raised and reared in volatile environments,

your threshold for what constitutes

pain and harm is different from someone who may not be in the same volatility.

Like if you were raising a family,

or community where people cursing and throwing things is the standard

then like your baseline for what harm is, is is here.

But if you’re raised in a community where like that's not the standard, when no one

even yells, then you're completely like, what's going on?

Right.

But if you if you were raised on this threshold that you don't even see that as violence.

And you see it's an expectation. That this is the way we communicate.

“Oh, it's fine because this is the way we communicate”

And I'm like, whoa, But like, what does that psychologically do to us over time?

And then also, I think about very often when you're in your first good

relationship, right, Whatever that is.

But you know, when you're in their first relationship that feels more mature

with a person who can like, appropriately communicate with you is tender

and you have been conditioned to fight.

Yes, come on, say it.

And you're like, “No, but I don't like”

And they're like, “I'm sorry that you feel that way.”

“I'm sorry that I am validating you.” And you're like...

What?

Now what?

Because it's boring.

It's also like because you're almost like

not so much of an addiction, but it is almost like you're

you're, you're pulled into the churning and the chaos.

And so when the chaos is not present, you don't know how to relate because

because relating in home and intimacy, the way it was modeled for you

is through that chaos.

And so you just like, “What is this?”

“This isn't real.”

“Y'all can't be real.”

“Y’all fake because this ain’t this”

For me, the first time that happened, I just remembered, like, the anger

and the rage was in my body still.

Even though the conflict was over.

Yeah.

And I was like, “So what am I supposed to do with that?”

Where does this go now?

Because usually where it goes is we go back and forth.

Yep, yep.

And then one of us goes, “I'm tired of this”

You know, whatever the dynamics are, right?

And then it's over because someone walked away.

But when no one walks away

and it's over because someone apologized, who, but you still got all this churning

you like and they like, “Are you just, you want to watch a movie now?”

And you’re like, “No, I don't even know how to sit still right now.”

Like, “I don't know how to be with this.”

And I think a lot of times when we're in our first like adult relationships

and our first, you know, like healing journey relationships, that is so, so,

so challenging.

Disorienting because all because now you have the space.

What happens is

like when you get into a dynamic, whether it's a romantic or even not romantic,

sometimes friendships. You get into a dynamic where like there is

space and tenderness and care and you haven't been to spaces like that.

It's like now all of your stuff has an opportunity to rise to the surface

and you become more aware like, “Oh wait, I am actually really traumatized

by how much men have lied to me.”

And Gaslit me.

And now I'm starting to look for ways in which gaslighting and lying are happening

in your behavior.

I'm starting to even like because that's about our brain, that's our fear response,

trauma response. Our brains are literally, like, “This feels familiar.”

So, you know, like, so it starts looking for the alert.

And sometimes what happens with trauma, as we know, is it distorts our vision.

So we start seeing things through that lens and we're looking at like,

“Oh, that hat is purple.” “Like girl, that's a pink hat.”

But you see purple like, “No, it's purple.”

“I know it's purple.”

Then you find out it’s pink and you feel like, “Oh my goodness.”

Right.

Because you've been conditioned in an environment

where lying and and dishonesty and betrayal

and all those things are so enmeshed that this feels foreign

And that oftentimes we're not naming it those things,

We’re naming it as a culture like “This is what the way things are,” right?

We just say like, ”Oh he ain’t shit.” Yeah, yeah, yeah.

We're like, “Oh, I'm off that.” Or we just name it some like phrase,

but we don't say like, I actually felt betrayed.

Yeah, right.

Right. Like I think about cheating culture, right?

And how often people are cheating on each other and breaking

the kind of trust and agreements that they made with each other

and people, we just go like, “Oh, you know, that that's how that is.”

I hear women say all the time, “I expect to be cheated on.”

“I just don't want to be embarrassed.”

“But I expect to be cheated on.”

And I'm like, well, yeah, if this is what we got to expect, like,

It's like, we can't expect.

It's almost as if we don't.

We believe that the expectation that someone would communicate to me

their sexual needs, to communicate to me what they need or what they want

that is so unrealistic and “wow” that I have to custom myself

to betrayal and dishonesty, which is always been a big thing for me.

Because I'm just like, “Oh, that’s a struggle for me.”

Like, you know, because I'm always like, Look, I've been in relationships.

I'm like, If I want to have sex with somebody else,

I'll have a conversation with you.

Let you know, “Hey, look, we might need to break this off.”

Here's like, because, like, because to me, relationships are contracts.

Yeah.

So just like any other contract, you put in the clauses that you need

for your well-being.

And if somebody don't want to sign a contract, don't sign on.

If my contract says, guess what, “I am in a poly dynamic, I'm monogamous”

or whatever, or “I need to have a weekend in Rio for” or whatever.

Like I would rather have the upfront honesty,

then live my life under the high blood pressure, producing anxiety, depression,

producing sneakiness of hiding and lying and pretending

like it's not than being dishonest.

Because that destroys families.

And I think what pisses me off a lot about that,

the cheating culture thing is I have so many people

I know I see on Twitter

and social media, talk all this shit about care, about mental health.

I see there are few things

that destroy people's self-esteem, a sense of self-worth, than betrayal,

than dishonesty, than like manipulation.

And on one hand you say, “Oh, I'm going to help.”

But everything you are doing otherwise is about this level of dishonesty.

It's not encouraging men, women, all of us, to be like, “Say it with your chest.”

“And live it with your chest.”

And living it with our chest is hard if ain’t done no work.

Yolo: That's true. Natalie: Right?

You get in these dynamics and I think about that as it relates to sex, right?

One of the things that I establish pretty early on in my like sexual

life was having a pre and post sex conversation.

And almost 99%

of the people that I have slept with shout out to you all,

You're winning.

But but, but in all seriousness,

99% of people are like you want to talk about it before

and then you also want to talk about it after.

Like “What are we going to talk about?”

And I'm like, “Pleasure. What you like.”

And for me, I'm like, if you can't articulate

what feels good to you, what consent means.

If you can't, like, communicate those things,

then how do I know that I'm actually holding you in dignity?

How do I actually know at the end of this

that this has been a pleasurable experience?

Or do we just do whatever our bodies do?

And then we did and just go, “Well, it was what it was, what it was.”

And I think for me, I'm like, I'm not satisfied with that low bar.

I'm like, I want a full experience.

I want to forget about all the other things that's happening.

I want to be like, “Oh, yes, this was the thing I wanted to do today.”

And if I don't feel like that, I'm kind of like,

“Okay, I guess” like if we can't lock in, what are we doing?

Yeah, no, I'm with you.

I think like dating black gay men and quer men

that has been rough, right?

Because I feel like a lot of black men, so much of the self esteem is built on sex

Like you may not be

you may not be, you may not have a job, you may not have the money.

But I can lay it down.

And we're all saying

that people say they can lay it down

but I got some receipts that say other things Yolo: I'm telling you.

So...but that's the whole thing. A lot of black men.

So like but what ends up happening is the reason you don't want

they won’t ask the questions

Because they don’t want to find that they actually can’t lay it down

because your self-esteem is built on this kind of like, shaky system

of not asking, assuming like, you know, all the performative orgasms,

you know, I mean, like

because I perform some orgasms, tell ‘em like, “Bruh, this needs to be over.”

Natalie: Awards.

I'm about to give you..I've got Soul Train awards It was like “best performance

of a fake ass orgasm with this triflin’ n...” Yolo

Like, you know what I mean? Like, literally, like, literally.

I was up there with Ashanti like

What up?? Natalie: Oh, my God,

Not with Ashanti, but she got a Soul Train award.

But no, I think that, like, you know, it's interesting even talking about that.

Like, I remember even in my early sex life,

like I'm short, I'm like, you know, moderately light skinned.

I know whatever, whatever you want to call it.

Depends on what color, I be like, right?

And, you know,

really being pushed into being like, “Oh, you must like receptive anal sex.”

And that was really and really being like and me being like, “I don’t know if I like it”

I don't know yet that.

But gay culture

Natalie: That’s what y’all tell me.

Gay culture being like

“This is what you will like, this is what you will enjoy.”

And I remember like having sex and being like, “This kind of wasn't, this wasn’t it.”

But I remember this is such an interesting intersection.

I think we talked about before, one of my good girlfriends, straight woman,

I remember telling her I was like, “Hey, look, I had sex

with this dud and I didn't like it that much.” She said, “Oh, you're not supposed to like it.”

“You like it because he likes it.”

“That's how penetration is.”

And I was like, “Oh shit.”

And I'm in college thinking this and thinking that, and for years

thought I was like, “Oh yeah, you just like it, they like it.”

And you ain’t supposed to like it. You supposed to like cus they like it.

I know, it’s so deep, right?

Because then you think about like straight women orgasms and the levels

the low levels of straight women who actually have orgasms.

Right? Natalie: Low.

And then you're thinking about the ways in which also women and receptive

sexual partners are conditioned

to not really like what's happening, but to just give pleasure to whoever,

But also because no one is talking and that no one I know these are,

you know what I'm saying?

But like, how many people are actually talking about

and can say, this is what feels pleasurable to my body?

I like this kind of touch.

And equally, if you shared that with your partner, would they be receptive?

Yeah, because I've shared with partners.

“Hey, I don't really like when you do X, y, z, like the intensity

or I don't like this thing or whatever” and they like, “That's what I do.”

And I'm like, “Oh, well then you got to do it

with somebody else” because this ain't, this ain't that.

I don't want that.

And now we are an impasse because what you thought was a vibe

I now have feedback for.

(music plays)

You know, it's so interesting cause I don't think that I think across

like sexual orientation in the black community

and gender identity, many of us just don't get...

So we learn about how to have sex from porn.

Oh, right.

And what sex should look like from porn. If we're honest...

It is a video shoot.

They try to get the best lighting And the best...

It's not about pleasure.

But what happens

is everyone's trying to, a lot of people

are trying to get into that performative ritual.

I can tell you how many times I'm like, you know, had casual intimacy with people.

I'm like, You can feel the script. Okay, I'm doing this.

To the left. To the right.

Like, you can feel the omnipresent camera there because we're doing the script

and we're not actually honoring what we like.

We're not communicating.

We haven't even explored it.

We haven't explored it.

And I think that like there's a lot of fear about talking about that.

But I be like, “So tell me, how was that for you?”

“Oh, Why you want to talk about it?”

I'm like, “Wait, what?”

Like, let's just have a conversation.

Because I think once again, sex is a very like a lot of folks

hold a lot of shame around sex, a lot of fear of hearing things about sex,

you know, and so, like, it's tricky for people.

Oh, of course.

And not to say that it is not tricky for us.

Yolo: Right. Right. Yes, right. Natalie: I think about that.

A lot of my sexual history is tainted by sexual violence.

Right?

That at a very early age, that was my introduction to pleasure.

Right.

Is being molested as a young person. Right?

I'm thinking about the many, many times that has happened in adulthood, right.

Where I'm like, “I did not say, yes, this was this is not what was happening.”

And now you put me in this awkward ass position to have to either

physically fight you or to take the L and be like,

“Here we go again.”

With another person who is not trying to be present

understand, isn’t like, I'm I'm an object.

I'm not a whole human. Right?

I ain't got no heartbeat.

I'm just a thing for you to be experiencing right now.

And I think about how

how I've had to work through so much of that trauma around

like some of those sexual experiences being violent

and others being things where it's like slealthing, right?

Where it's like we agree to use a condom.

And then I discover, Oh, you, you actually took it off in the midst of this.

And now I'm left unprotected, number one.

And number two, like, I can agree to this. Now you done created a whole...

Now I got to get the plan B. I got to...

Now you've made my life so much more complicated.

And are you willing to take responsibility for that?

For that, that's what happened.

And I think in the experience of like having this experience of being self,

I went back to him and I was like,

Hey, so I just want to like check in the next day.

And I said, you know, I said, “What was the experience like for you?”

And he was like, “This is amazing.”

“And I'm so excited and so glad we're dating.”

And I was like, “Well, I have to be honest, that was not my experience at all.”

And he was like, “What do you mean?”

And I was like,

“Well I agreed to have sex with a condom”

and later discovered that that's not actually what happened fully.

And so, like, “that's not okay with me.”

And he's like, “Well, what are you trying to say?”

And I was like, “Exactly what I said”

that, like, “the agreement was broken”

and now you've put me in a risk that I was not willing to have

and now have put me in a position to potentially be pregnant,

to be potentially exposed to STDs, to be potentially all kinds of things.

Are you prepared to be responsible for whatever comes from that decision?

And he was like, “Well, I'm not one of those dudes.”

No one's ever said that I am, I'm that kind of person.

And I said, I recognize that, like, we have a culture

that says the dude who rapes people and the dude who is somebody else.

And sir, today that somebody is you.

And so just because nobody else had the bravery to have this conversation with you

It's actually happened to me so many times

that I am now brave enough to say you have absolutely violated me.

You have absolutely

absolutely put me in a position that I did not desire to be in.

And we gon' talk about responsibility now.

And it was like this whole moment where I said, “this doesn't have to be”

“a ruined experience.”

“It could be an experience that we learn and grow through.”

“But are you ready for that?”

He ain't ready for that.

But that was the opportunity, right?

I was like, “You're in therapy.”

“I want to encourage you to talk to your therapist about this experience.”

What's the point of having a therapist

if you're not really willing to talk about what's actually happening?

Ain't going to be no actual growth here.

And this delusion that we are not the people that we actually are.

That ain't real.

And at what point do we get with the reality and also stop

harming other people in the midst of our own dysfunction?

Yeah, and it's it's

first of all, like, you know, you sharing that it's like brings up so much, right?

Natalie: Yeah.

Because it's like so many experiences and so many women tell the stories

and not even just women, people, people talking about those experiences.

And as so many things I'm thinking about thinking about

the ways in which we have

normalized for

black women, men and black women, that that is to be expected.

Natalie: Absolutely. That that is acceptable as a norm.

Mm hmm.

That like I remember, I have a friend years ago

who told me she was like, I didn't realize, when she started dating women

She talks about this experience and not to say that women are

better than men or whatever. She says...

There was a way that I didn't realize men were related to my body, that I didn't

realize how disturbing it was until I was with a woman who was loving to me.

And I was like, Whoa.

Natalie: Mm hmm.

And I think about that

because I think about the mental health and wellness of black women

and how the ways in which black men and anybody who's having sex with black women

relates to black women's bodies.

And it's deeply misogynistic, deeply

alienating, deeply disrespectful way

Just entitled.

Entitlement, entitled like

what if I don't want to be devoured?

What if I actually want tenderness?

Mm hmm.

What if I actually want love?

You got that?

Or you just only got your machismo, your machismo?

You'll I'm about to prove.

So I'm a like all the ways that we talk about sex, right?

I'm about to tear it up, and I'm about to, and I'm like,

What? Natalie: Yeah.

So, like, are you 13?

Like, can you come with something more than that was a way to dating the guys.

It was so weird too, dating the guys.

that were like when they start talking about sex, they revert to 12.

You be like, why do you revert to 12 years old?

Like, like, Oh, pussy, huhhh!

Okay. Wow. What just happened?

What the fuck just happened?

Why did you become 16 all of...again?

You are a 40 year old man or we can't name genitalia

what they're actually named, right?

There's this whole thing that happens

that we need to get caught in at some point, right?

Where we have to, like, interrogate like,

“Oh, is this actually the kind of experience that I want to be having?”

Is this...?

And I think about as people transition into like an age or a time in their life

when they, like, want to be married and are going to have sex

with the same person potentially for many, many years. Right.

That changes the ways in which you ‘finna navigate this.

When you start having kids.

Oh all this we bout to it down for you.

Okay. Right.

With your two year old

Like you know what I mean?

It's like, where is the practical version of intimacy?

Not just sex, but intimacy.

And do we only see as penetration?

Do we see it as porno style?

Yeah. Yeah.

Let me tell you,

Like one of my biggest beefs, and I know the gays gonna to get on me

I absolutely loathe and detest,

and I struggle with the ways in which gay men particularly have been taught

to like socialize sexuality into bottom and top. Because when somebody is like,

I'm a top or bottom, that tells me shit about what you like.

It tells me nothing about what you sexually enjoy

and like it unlike

and like the idea that I had to center, my whole sexuality around this act,

just the one thing, the one thing it's always been like I do

a lot of other things in sex that I don't, aren't related to.

So, why I got to, I don’t call myself

I've built an identity around my nipple licking - that's not happening.

Well, you know what I mean? Like, I'm being, I'm going to be honest.

I'm going to say the things. Natalie: There was a man who

Ok, Ok...

but I was like, okay, but for me, it's like I want to create space

where it's like,

I get to know your body and get to know you and I want you to know me sexually.

But like sometimes these rigid labels,

which are really transactional, they're really for transactional intimacy.

But I can just get this what I want, which is fine.

So but I loath...

Natalie: There's a place for that. Yolo: But I loathe how, I loathe really

how they're being connected to gender. And like all these assumptions about you,

like it's like also you like to use your penis in sex.

That means you are blah, blah, blah, which often aligns with dominant hetero

centric you a masculine person and the other way and vice versa.

Right?

And they're like all the ways in which that because I think about the ways in

which when I was like really having more receptive intimacy, the ways in which

it was so deeply aligned with like deeply misogynistic

thinking that black women were all adhering to

It was just like, it was like the same narratives I would get like about shame.

Like, okay, like if I have like, you know, if you want why you let them run up in you?

Lke, you know? I mean, like all this stuff.

It was like, wait a second.

Like, what if I, like, can’t I like, sex, right?

Can I enjoy sex? Can I be an agent in sex?

You know what I mean? No, no voice, No voice.

Just doing what? Just give the quote give them a way...

Give away something to someone. Right.

As opposed to like, well, I'm getting something too, that I want.

Right?

Even on that framework, it's just like it's so deeply

not about building connection and building trust,

because I think when you build connection and trust, intimacy,

you've got questions that go beyond those labels and those layers.

Way beyond that.

You got lot of the thought to go there.

But I think there's a lot of fear and anxiety around that, like I said,

because I think a lot of black men and black women,

the self esteem is built around the idea of how I am is sex.

I got, I got I can throw it down.

And if you and if you question it, then everything else falls apart around it.

But I also think in hetero relationships, I think that for women,

I think the same thing is true.

We need to be pretty and open to whatever you want to do.

Otherwise we get traded in for the newest model

and you know I'm bi, so I have the experience of,

of having experiences with both and, you know, with men and women.

And, you know, I really resonate with this idea of like that sex

with women is totally different and like, it is a whole experience.

It...for me it is a whole experience.

It is loving.

And it's not just about specific body parts.

It's about the whole human.

And I think that there's something to me really delicious

about the tenderness and the expansiveness of that

that I wish more straight men would like be open to having

because there's something you're missing when you're just “P in the V! P in the V!”

Yeah. Oh, we're just like, in the mirror, like, doing thing.

It's like, I don't know, bro.

Like, I just feel like I want more for you.

I want more for you.

It's like a goal based and a performance based sex.

When the goal of the sex is to perform and like be “Grrr” for something as opposed

to be present, be connected, be intimate, be listening, listen to your body.

Listen to each other's bodies. Right.

And I think that that's not the norm for what we

because I mean, think about a music we listen to every day

It's all about like domination or the performance of domination,

which I want to name is different from domination, Right? Yeah.

I think there's I think we often get confused in our culture.

We think that like, oh, like domination is rape.

The performance of domination.

If I perform an act with you in the act of performing this domination,

that's different.

That's a performance. That is a consent based, that is acting.

Yeah.

And I think that like a lot of n...runnin’ around here thinking like,

Oh, no, no, no, no, no.

There's a difference. Natalie: You're acting.

We're acting and I'm acting for you to make you feel a certain kind of love.

Some folks rape people, but also

Some rape people, yes.

There's also, like acting, right?

You know?

and I think making those distinctions is something

we don't see happen in the culture and in conversation.

Like even myself, like, you know, as a survivor, you know,

I think about when I told people, when I told other black gay men or black

gay men about being sexually assaulted, it was kind of shrugged off.

I'm like and I remember being so

the culture, there's this kind of underlying thing with gay men

in particular where it's like, all men want sex, so you can't be raped.

And you can see it plays out in all different kind of ways.

Things I hear gay men say.

I'm like, wait a second, what?

You know?

And so when you say that, like, oh,

like even like going to clubs in spaces like, I like as a shorter person,

I've had that experience in the past when like, you know, men

roll up on you and want to be aggressive with you and...

Like, what the fuck is happening right now?

Like roll up and you're like, “Yo, you are too close”

What's happening?

Too much is going on and ain’t nobody said they wanted any of this.

But those act, those acts

and those things are seen as like, desirable people to find that attractive

you ‘posed to find that like you ’posed to want that. you feel chosen.

Natalie: You feel chosen.

You feel chosen. And once again, like, Oh, you chose me.

You know.

Of all the people in this club, I'm the one that you want to roll up on.

You chose me over the sock you had under your bed last night.

let's keep it 100, like, you know what I mean?

Like, you know, like this.

This way, this culture of, like, it's just a culture of disconnection.

Yeah.

It's not a culture of intimacy. And it's the desire for connection.

Yes, Yes. Without the bravery.

Yolo: Oooh, come on now

To do the work to be connected.

And that is what is so unappealing to me, because I'm like,

if we doing this human shit, let's do it.

Yeah. What's all the stuff?

Let's bump up against each other.

You know I think that like having dated so many people, I mean, and like,

So many people, so many people

Oh, Lord Jesus. I've dated... actually I have not dated...

I have not dated that many.

I feel like the number, there’s numbers

but I actually feel like I don't...actually I say that I've dated people,

but I feel like one thing I'm not very good at dating

because I tend to be like and I think we have this in common.

I could spend 10 seconds with you and I'm like, Nope.

And like, and like, I also I don't need to like, I'm not that person that I admire,

people who, like, I want an exploration with someone.

And, you know, I used to be that here.

I'm like, I got to be in it for the story, right?

Number one.

And number two, I used to be like, Well, maybe I'll have time.

And what I realized about that maybe is it's bullshit, no bullshit.

And number two, it doesn't ultimately serve me

if I'm compromising from the jump

at the door of

meeting you, I'm going, Well, maybe I didn't like this thing,

but maybe if this and and it's like, all this, that, that, that.

And now I don't beat myself out of what I actually want.

What I actually feel. Right?

Because what do I feel when I'm in your presence?

Oh, what do I feel when I'm around you?

Do I feel integrity, Do I feel connected?

Do I feel alignment?

Do I feel nourished and supported?

And honestly, that's like it’s not goin to be the same way all the time.

But

if I don't feel some dimension of that, why am I engaging you so like one thing?

I mean, one of my friends critiqued me about it's like you don't do just random dates.

I'm like, one at one.

I also struggle with this with like, gay men in particular, is like my standard

of human engagement is so high for most gay male cultures or something

because I feel like you're just like, “Hi, are you a person?”

“I would like to talk to you and it's know you.”

They're like, “Oh, you must be in love with me.” No, no, no.

That's just a different standard than what you all

Because you all don't treat each other like human beings.

You just like sacks of meat,

and then what happens is somebody comes in is is kind to you as a human being.

You think I'm in love with you?

I'm like, actually, listen, that that's just like. Natalie: .I just said Hello.

I just said hello. I said, How you feeling?

I expressed interest in you as a human living being

and the culture of pain, I think as so many queer

communities is so deep, so much trauma, so much sadness, so much depression

that is masked as fabulous as masked as “mean girl-ness”

And it's like hiding all this, all this stuff

that shows up and how the sex and the intimacy doesn't show up.

Craving the intimacy.

And so you become big and bold and beautiful

to attract something that feels like something.

But it makes me think about something I really made a choice in my life

a long time ago. I was like, I used to be so attracted to the image,

the image of like, you know, the Instagram, the Instagram,

Facebook post and but I had the Instagram Facebook post and it felt like hell.

And then I started being like, Oh, I want to have a relationship

that feels good, that feels good, like, I don't care how it looks to you.

I don't care if it doesn't

look like it could be on the cover of Ebony and Jet magazine.

I don't care because it feels good to me.

I mean, I also do want it to be like, okay, look, okay.

I mean, it can be cute, but I'm saying like, not recognizable.

It might not be recognizable to you

and the way in which you understand dynamics of relationships,

but I want to feel good because I've lived a hell of trying to pretzel myself

into the image of some man or whoever else wants me to be.

Yeah. Been there.

Glad to not be there anymore. Yolo: I'm into that.

Glad to not be there anymore.

(music plays)

I'm curious, as we close out,

What's your take away?

What's the mantra?

Affirmation that you are reminded of that you are calling for

as it relates to your sexual wellness, to relationships, to love?

Oh, such a good question.

What am I calling for?

I think for myself, I feel grateful to say that I'm in a part of my journey

where I'm able to engage intimacy and having intimacy

that feels more connected and true to me than ever

because I feel like if one of the biggest I'm not a, I'm not, the biggest lie

that I've told the people I have dated, have been romantic with and I'm sorry.

I'm sorry.

Has been mostly around the intimacy and the level of enjoyment actually had of it.

Because I think for a long time I lied to people please

Because like, I didn't

think that I'd have the courage to say this is what I want and what I enjoy.

I did feel like I was worthy of even having what I want.

I feel very pushed and molded.

This is what you gon’ like and just endure it.

And so I think that

affirmation for me is that like, you know, I can have the pleasure that I desire,

I can have a connection that I desire.

I would rather have a quantity, quality over quantity.

I would have one quality connection and have 15 terrible

dismissive connection Natalie: Or just shallow.

Shallow, right?

And so for me, it's affirming. I can have a place that I desire.

I can feel nourished in my sex and my sex sexual intimacy.

I can perform consensually, I can engage in all these different ways,

and I can do that with integrity.

And that will conversation with communication that's possible

for my sexuality.

Natalie: I love that.

I, I think for me

I am holding a vision

for a love that is rich,

that is kind and that is on purpose,

that is about choosing each other

and being aligned because we want to be,

not because we just don't have shit else going on.

Right?

And that, that is the vision I'm holding for myself

and wish that for everybody really is a love

that feels good for real

in the best and worst of days,

that we have a love that holds us, that sees us fully.

Yolo: I love that. I love that.

That's the affirmation.

That's the call.

Like, you know, it's a I think they like to our people

who are watching or listening, I hope that like, you know,

hearing our stories, which are, you know, our realities are truths

helping you to reflect upon your own truth and call into yourself to say

you can have a different kind of intimacy that feels good for you.

You can expand the intimacy that you already have that feels good to you.

I want to invite you

to reimagine and think, How could my body feel differently?

How can I find more joy, more pleasure, more orgasm, whatever that is you need

or you want in a way that is loving, in a way that is in integrity.

I want to invite all of all the folks who are less to remix,

to remix and reimagine sexuality and sex for yourself

and think about how you can do that

and a healing justice frame and in a loving frame.

I love that.

Well, we're excited for the journey we're all on and right.

We love you. We're rooting for you.

Hot girl summer! I'm sorry. Natalie: It's a mild girl summer over here.

But we'll see you next time.

(music plays)

Hey, what's up, everyone?

This is Yolo, and I'm back

with another practice that you can use on your healing journey.

Today I want to do something a little simple that you can carry with you

wherever you are, and it is a practice called box breathing.

So to frame this practice, imagine a square

and on each side of that square is the number four, right?

What we will do, we will inhale deeply for 4 seconds,

then hold for 4 seconds,

then exhale for 4 seconds, and then repeat.

This is a simple practice and our breath is the most powerful tools

that we have to help ourselves regulate and manage our nervous systems.

Right.

And so I want to invite you to practice and try this with me, okay?

Now, a couple of tips here.

When you inhale,

I want to invite you to inhale through your nose and feel your belly.

And then when you exhale, want to invite you to sell through your mouth

and make as much noise as you need, as you push out that air

or maybe even metaphorically and think we need to release.

Okay? So want to try it together?

Simple practice, right?

So first thing we'll do, we'll start with inhale.

I will count one, two, three, four and I will instruct you and we'll go from there.

All right.

So when you're ready, wherever you are, want to start with a deep breath.

Inhale into our nose for one,

two, three, four.

Holding.

two, three, four.

Exhaling.

two, three, four,

Put a pause right there.

Give yourself a moment to feel how that felt.

Sometimes when we’re new to breath work, we can feel a little different.

So I'm going to invite you to be present with that and want to do it one last time.

Right.

Once again, reminding you that when you inhale what

and how deep through our nose, feeling our belly

and then we want to exhale through our mouth, making as much noise

as we would like.

All right?

So now we'll get started again.

Inhale through your nose.

One, two, three, four.

Hold your breath

two, three, four.

Exhale.

Two, three, four.

Simple, sweet.

Don't cost you nothing.

You can cash app me.

No, but it doesn't cost you anything to practice with your breath.

So think about that in your moments when you may be experiencing stress.

Think about that just in your everyday life.

How can I take a moment to just breathe?

Because often times

we’re not present in our bodies and our breath helps us get back here

when we're disconnected. Right?

So try it, check it out.

And if it doesn't work for you, that's good.

There's lots of other practicing tools you can try as well.

I’m Yolo and thank you again for joining me.