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This episode includes
the discussion of sensitive topics

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related to mental health
and may be activating for some viewers.

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We encourage you to take care of yourself
for support and resources

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Please visit BEAM.COMMUNITY/GETHELP now.

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What's up, everybody?

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I'm YOLO.

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I'm Natalie and this is Black
Healing Remix: The Podcast.

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So now today I want to talk a little bit
about this moment

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where everybody's talking about wellness
and healing and mental health.

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Timelines flooded. Timelines flooded.

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And I'm really grateful for that, right?

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I mean, as somebody who's doing
public health

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and community
health work for several years, right.

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I remember the moment ten years ago
when it was so difficult

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to have conversations
about mental health in mainstream.

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Yeah, the person who put the thing
on Facebook and said, “Oh,

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I'm feeling like this.” Everybody was like,
“Oh my goodness, what's going on?”

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Yes, I remember that time, too.

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And so it's wow.

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Because now we're in this moment,

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everyone's talking about things,
which is wonderful and beautiful.

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But one thing that I have to say
that I'm concerned about

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is someone who, you know, works in public
health, works in community health,

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as I'm seeing a lot of people who

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maybe who have

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skills and talents, but are overstepping
the boundaries of what

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their skills and talents can provide
people who are in legitimate distress.

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I'm talking about crystal healers
talking about this crystal

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And this tea going to help
get you rid of your bipolar.

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I'm talking about like, you know, yoga
teacher is talking about it,

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diagnosing people
with certain kind of conditions,

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even people who are just taking up
the mantle of healer

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and doing a lot of practices
without a community of support,

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without a community of accountability

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and sometimes
without any training from anyone.

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That's kind of like picking up books
that feeling

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like they can experiment on folks
sometimes causing a lot of harm.

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Absolutely.

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And so this is something
that's really alarming to me because,

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you know, at BEAM,
we are really explicit about talking about

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honoring the diversity
of the spectrum of healers.

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Right.

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That yoga teachers, that energy healers
that like herbalists, that

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They all have a place. 
YOLO: We have a place.

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But I'm also really nervous and concerned
because I see some people

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overstepping into spaces
that are really hurting people.

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NATALIE: Absolutely. 
You know, I don't know if you see something like this.

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And yeah, I mean, I think the thing for me
is, you know, we look on socials

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and people are sharing a lot
about what they're navigating.

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And then I equally see a lot of people
who are like, the guru suddenly. Where it’s like,

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Homie, I knew you two weeks ago,
you was not on this,

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but now this is the vibe
and this is a wave.

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And so now you have an inspirational quote
and now you're holding retreats

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and you doing ayahuasca
with people, right?

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Like there there is this overstepping

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of everybody can do really deep work.

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And I think everybody has work

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they can contribute. 
YOLO: Yeah.

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But I think when we think about people
who are experiencing

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tremendous mental health
crisis and distress,

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I don't know if that's the best place.

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If your Instagram timeline
is the best place to be getting

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the support that you deserve
and that would most serve you.

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Yeah, I think we also understand
the distinctions within wellness

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and mental health, right?

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So I'm thinking about

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like even, first of all,
even with therapists.

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Let’s start with therapists, right?

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People tend to assume that a therapist
has all the knowledge of every,

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single support, right?

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Like, know how to support every condition.

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Knows how to support universally.

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Is this ethical, moral person.
And that's not the reality.

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We know that's not the reality.

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And we work with a lot of therapists
and they tell us, I

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there are things
I don't know how to handle.

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Clients come to me
and they have certain things going on

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and I have to refer them to someone else
because I am not an expert in that

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and I'm not always certain
how to navigate it.

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And so we recognize that
on both sides of it

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YOLO: Yes.
Therapists are recognizing 
there are limitations

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to the work that I do
and the way the work can happen. 
YOLO: Yes.

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And equally,

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there's people who obviously share stories
with us about unethical treatment

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going on with them.

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Yeah,
And I think that's the important piece.

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Like, you know, I was reading Dr.

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Thomas Insel, who is a former director
of the National Institutes of Health,

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and he was talking about that

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about 60% of therapists
in this particular time period

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I can't remember the exact time period,
but we're not trained in science

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based interventions to support people
with serious mental illness.

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I thought it was really profound. Right.

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So, it made me begin to question
like what are they trained in? Right?

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And then when you dig a little deeper,
you start to realize that actually

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the people who have serious mental illness
are often not treated by therapists.

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Right?

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They actually are treated
like and by emergency rooms and like,

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you know, inpatient work. Right.

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So there's a little bit
of a distinction there.

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But I think what happens

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when we have this conversation on therapy
about get a therapist,

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well, is this therapist
a good fit for you?

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Is this is this therapist
able to have the skill set?

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Are they training the curriculum that will
actually support you in your wellness?

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Like it's not just a one size fits
all and therapists are not these absolute

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like completely all knowing beings, which
is what strange, strangely starts to happen.

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I see a lot of therapists on social media
kind of marrying some of the more

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undesirable elements of the kind of
evangelical preacher tradition

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where it's like,

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Now not only am I speaking for God,
but I'm speaking for God as a therapist.

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So now I am the ultimate power.

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And that's alarming to me. Right.

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Because I think that any situation
you're going in to a therapist, whoever

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for me, for it to be healing for me,
you have to be in a co-healing dynamic.

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And what I say is a co-healing dynamic
is that in my opinion, a therapist,

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a healer, or wellness for a person
is a guide and a supporting their journey.

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But you have to be engaged in it too.

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You have to be actively opening, sharing,

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participating, 
saying at times, “That don't feel good.”

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(music plays)

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Because also

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when you think about anything,
I think about massage very often, right?

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And someone who is well versed in that
and is a healer in that form of support

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Right? 
They’re, just meeting your 
body for the first time.

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Right? And I think about 
how often like people

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you go to massage and you're like,
and for me, my journey was

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I would be getting these massages
and I only like soft touch,

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but because I exist in a big body,
people think that I need to be pressed

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on so hard, right?

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And so I would get these massages
trying to find relief and comfort

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and I would be like,
“Ow! Ow!” the whole time

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I would be internally suffering
and now combine

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this with multiple experiences
of sexual violence.

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Now I'm scared to speak up,

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right?

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And I'm sitting in this thing that should
be supportive and helpful to me, right?

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That's what it's designed to be.

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But then I'm caught in the midst of this
feeling uncomfortable,

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not knowing how to say, Hey,
I don't like this,

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or I feel uncomfortable
not trying to offend them. Right?

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You see how all the things can come
together to really create this experience?

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And of course, this is a small example
of what could be happening

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on a much larger scale
for people in larger emotional distress.

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Right.

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And so I think that that's a really good
illustration of sometimes how

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people, number one,
lose their voice in a process,

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but also assume they understand
what the dynamics of something is.

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And how are we being educated about what
to do in the first time you go to therapy?

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I think about the tools that we have
on our on our website where we talk

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about things to consider prior
to going to therapy.

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When you're in your first session
with a therapist,

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here are some things to ask, right?

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If you want to change therapists, here
are some things to think about, right?

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Like we've designed these tools
to be able to support people,

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to navigate them
because that can be so tricky.

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It can be so tricky.

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And I think that another piece of it

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First of all, I want to thank you
for sharing that example.

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I’m curious to know, I can imagine people listening
who've been in similar situations.

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How are you working through or navigating,
being able to elicit

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those boundaries for yourself, or
what, where are you at in your journey?

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Yeah,
so at first I was like, “Push through.”

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“You're a tough black girl.”

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And then I was like, “Girl,
that's bullshit.”

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“And it ain't go work”, right?

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You're traumatizing yourself
more over again, right?

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And then I was like, “Okay, I need”

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because at first I was like,
“Oh, anybody can massage me.”

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And I was like, “Well, I'm
getting triggered by these dudes who they”

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“They doin’ too much”, right?

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So then I was like,
“I'm only going to be massaged by women.”

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So that was my first step.

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And then I went to
when I get a massage, I explicitly say

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“I have experienced sexual violence.”

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“I need you to communicate
what you're doing”

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“and when you're doing it,
that will really help me be able to relax.”

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Now, the first time I said it, I was like,

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“Oh my God, I am so terrified to say this.”

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And the woman said back to me, “I'm
a survivor too.”

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“I got you.”

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And I was like, “Oh, we on!
I’m going to say this every single time.”

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And then and now it's become a ritual and
a practice for me to advocate for myself.

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The same thing
when I go to a chiropractor.

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I went to a chiropractor
and I was like, so uncomfortable.

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I was like, you just doing stuff
and you moved me away.

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I was like, “Okay, I need to just establish
like, here's who I am in the world”

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“and I'm coming here not to be violated,
not to be more traumatized.”

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And if I advocate for myself
by using my voice

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now this changes the whole dynamic.

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Because also now, you know,
I know what's up.

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Right?

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It changes the power dynamic.

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And for me,

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that's really helpful to being able to,
like, be relaxed because I come in saying,

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“Hey, I'm mindful of these things
and I need you to be also.”

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Mm hmm. I love that.

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That's powerful.

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It's powerful.

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I mean, it took...it is practice.

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It is contending with myself.

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It is talking with my therapist
about it. Right.

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It's it's all of the things
and being like, “No, but I deserve care.”

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“I deserve to be treated
in a way that actually honors me.”

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Not just like, well,
everybody gets massages and they're fine.

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Why am I not?

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I don't care why I'm not.

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There's a whole list of stories
of why I'm not.

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And also today, I need this massage,
and I need you to be ethical

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while providing me care and support.

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Yeah, it's also makes me so

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It's so disturbing to me
that, like, that's not a mandatory

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part of masseuse training.

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Like, “Before I touch you, how I touch you.”

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“I'm going to let you know
what's happening.”

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Like, I experienced a similar thing
when I was a yoga teacher, right?

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I went to a school.

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You know what it was led by brown people.

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I'm grateful to be taught by Indian folks
about, like, yoga,

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but with a lot of white folks there
and other studios that I was a part of.

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That was what a lot of white folks.

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And I was always shocked at
how much nonconsensual touching happened.

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Like how much
that was an adjustment to your waist.

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And you was like, “Whoa, you didn”t ask 
me to touch my waist.”

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Yeah, I like, “Push you back down.”
And you’re like, “Hold on” 
YOLO: Moving your body

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and doing things with your body
without saying the simple,

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“Hey, is it okay to touch you?”

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“Is it okay?”

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Even I've heard people say thing like,
“I'm going to touch you right now.”

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But that's not it.

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You’re not letting me know
I'm going to touch you right now.

232
00:10:14,013 --> 00:10:16,482
You're going to tell, ask me,
is it okay to touch me?

233
00:10:16,482 --> 00:10:17,717
Yeah.

234
00:10:17,717 --> 00:10:22,188
And so consent based practice
is not very common when it comes to yoga teaching

235
00:10:22,188 --> 00:10:24,590
when it comes to masseuse, unfortunately.

236
00:10:24,590 --> 00:10:26,258
But that needs to be a standard, right?

237
00:10:26,258 --> 00:10:29,061
(music plays)

238
00:10:29,161 --> 00:10:30,596
And needs
to be a standard even in therapy.

239
00:10:30,596 --> 00:10:32,531
I think in about psychiatry, too, right?

240
00:10:32,531 --> 00:10:33,566
I think is so important

241
00:10:33,566 --> 00:10:35,034
Like for me,

242
00:10:35,034 --> 00:10:39,605
I had to learn, unlearn the conditioning
that I feel like we as black folks get.

243
00:10:39,605 --> 00:10:41,974
Well, when you go to the doctor,
you kind of hang your head down low

244
00:10:41,974 --> 00:10:43,776
and whatever they say,
you just kind of listen to.

245
00:10:43,776 --> 00:10:45,211
They must know everything
because they're the doctor

246
00:10:45,211 --> 00:10:47,279
and then they rush you out of the space.

247
00:10:47,279 --> 00:10:49,882
And I had to go to the space,
walk with my therapist and with my doctor

248
00:10:49,882 --> 00:10:51,350
I'm like, I have questions.

249
00:10:51,350 --> 00:10:52,952
I pay a lot of money to be here.

250
00:10:52,952 --> 00:10:56,288
So I have, you have time. 
And okay, first, I know the first time I did it,

251
00:10:56,389 --> 00:10:57,957
he was like, “Whoa, okay.”

252
00:10:57,957 --> 00:11:00,359
But he sat down
and listen to what I had to say, right?

253
00:11:00,359 --> 00:11:02,528
Because I think that sometimes
in the training of physicians,

254
00:11:02,528 --> 00:11:06,032
they are trained to be so dismissive
to your needs and then to,

255
00:11:06,032 --> 00:11:09,101
God forbid you got a white doctor,
you black, that all that bias comes in

256
00:11:09,301 --> 00:11:12,872
or I've had many black straight doctors
who the minute they see I'm gay,

257
00:11:12,872 --> 00:11:16,776
that judgment and shame comes in. 
Alright, ok,  “What kind of sex you havin’?”

258
00:11:16,842 --> 00:11:19,278
Like you know
you can feel that shame, right?

259
00:11:19,278 --> 00:11:21,514
Same thing can happen in 
your therapeutic relationship.

260
00:11:21,514 --> 00:11:24,016
Absolutely.
Someone who's a therapist can do something

261
00:11:24,016 --> 00:11:25,685
or say something
that does not feel good for you.

262
00:11:25,685 --> 00:11:29,355
And it's okay for you to say,
“I don't like that. I want to stop”

263
00:11:29,455 --> 00:11:32,458
or “I need to understand
what's happening right now.”

264
00:11:32,491 --> 00:11:33,993
And I think it's important that we

265
00:11:33,993 --> 00:11:36,595
tell our folks that
because we know that so often

266
00:11:36,595 --> 00:11:40,800
doctors, therapists,
a lot of different practitioners are not

267
00:11:40,866 --> 00:11:43,869
and are not
as thoughtful, or safe for us.

268
00:11:44,003 --> 00:11:45,438
And when you think about, you know,

269
00:11:45,438 --> 00:11:46,038
because part of me

270
00:11:46,038 --> 00:11:49,809
as well is thinking about all the healers
that I know that are well-intentioned.

271
00:11:49,942 --> 00:11:50,676
Right.

272
00:11:50,676 --> 00:11:53,479
But also are a part
of these raggedy systems.

273
00:11:53,479 --> 00:11:56,248
Right. I have a fantastic doctor.

274
00:11:56,248 --> 00:12:00,553
She's a part of a terrible system
where she has 13 minutes or what,

275
00:12:00,686 --> 00:12:03,923
you know, some very short amount of time
to talk to me about everything

276
00:12:03,923 --> 00:12:08,761
that's going on with my body
and then be like, “Okay, great”

277
00:12:08,828 --> 00:12:11,530
“Okay, I'll send you an email” 
because she got to keep moving

278
00:12:11,530 --> 00:12:13,265
because if she doesn't
now she's reprimanded,

279
00:12:13,265 --> 00:12:14,767
she document it in the system,

280
00:12:14,767 --> 00:12:15,701
all of these different things.

281
00:12:15,701 --> 00:12:18,938
And so I think about the system,
the healers who are a part

282
00:12:18,938 --> 00:12:20,139
of systems, right.

283
00:12:20,139 --> 00:12:23,209
That some of what we consider
like the reckless or carelessness

284
00:12:23,409 --> 00:12:26,412
or poor bedside
manner is really because of the systems

285
00:12:26,412 --> 00:12:29,682
that they're a part of in the ways
in which they've been trained.

286
00:12:29,782 --> 00:12:32,785
But equally, for folks
who are not being trained right,

287
00:12:32,852 --> 00:12:36,922
who have a more organic path
to their their healing journey

288
00:12:37,022 --> 00:12:40,993
and the offerings that they have
in the world, there's no accountability,

289
00:12:41,060 --> 00:12:45,364
but there's also no community saying,
“Hey”, right.

290
00:12:45,364 --> 00:12:47,566
Because if you build a business
and you or whatever,

291
00:12:47,566 --> 00:12:51,270
if I say, “Hey, YOLO,
I'm kind of I'm nervous about people”

292
00:12:51,403 --> 00:12:52,772
“Well, this my business”

293
00:12:52,772 --> 00:12:55,975
“If you want to do it this way, then
you worry about your own business”, right?

294
00:12:56,208 --> 00:13:00,112
And so I wonder about that dynamic of
where are the checks and balances?

295
00:13:00,346 --> 00:13:01,881
Is there a necessity for them?

296
00:13:01,881 --> 00:13:03,315
And then who's caught in the crossfire?

297
00:13:03,315 --> 00:13:06,051
(music plays)

298
00:13:06,051 --> 00:13:08,754
Well, and also understand
the checks and balances don't exist

299
00:13:08,754 --> 00:13:11,991
as thoughtful as we would like them to be 
for therapists and psychiatrists.

300
00:13:12,024 --> 00:13:12,291
Right.

301
00:13:12,291 --> 00:13:16,195
I mean, we talk about psychiatrists
having really unprecedented power

302
00:13:16,262 --> 00:13:21,500
to institutionalize people, to reject
family recommendations, to hold people

303
00:13:21,500 --> 00:13:24,870
literally hostage within institutions
off of their assessments.

304
00:13:24,870 --> 00:13:27,840
NATALIE: Yeah
Like we're talking about like abuses of power.

305
00:13:27,840 --> 00:13:30,576
And even with physicians and therapists,
when there are times

306
00:13:30,576 --> 00:13:33,813
in which grievances happen,
the process is often labeled very labored

307
00:13:33,813 --> 00:13:37,016
for people or this often like. 
Or it's a fake process, right?

308
00:13:37,016 --> 00:13:37,950
A fake process.

309
00:13:37,950 --> 00:13:39,218
So there's so,

310
00:13:39,218 --> 00:13:42,188
you know, even the people are like, “Oh,
you know, I'm licensing as accountability.”

311
00:13:42,188 --> 00:13:44,390
Is there?
Have you ever tried to file a grievance

312
00:13:44,390 --> 00:13:45,591
with a social worker out there?

313
00:13:45,591 --> 00:13:47,626
Do you know what that process is like?

314
00:13:47,626 --> 00:13:51,130
and how and how
and how it can be grueling on the person?

315
00:13:51,197 --> 00:13:55,000
So I think that like while I'm grateful
there is some structure

316
00:13:55,100 --> 00:13:58,704
that needs to be really sharpened,
I do worry, like you, about the healers

317
00:13:58,704 --> 00:14:02,875
who are like, “I feel compelled
to help people, but I don't understand.”

318
00:14:02,875 --> 00:14:05,044
“I don't have enough skills and tools.
I don't understand...”

319
00:14:05,044 --> 00:14:08,881
“I don't have the skills and tools
to go in as deep as I'm trying to go.”

320
00:14:08,881 --> 00:14:11,851
It's like saying
that I started swimming classes yesterday

321
00:14:12,017 --> 00:14:14,720
and now I'm going to go into the 15
feet in the pool.

322
00:14:14,720 --> 00:14:15,554
Like it's like, “Whoa, bruh.”

323
00:14:15,554 --> 00:14:17,456
“Like you've got to slow down”
NATALIE: Stay in that kiddy pool.

324
00:14:17,456 --> 00:14:19,491
And you got to think about
who are the people next to you

325
00:14:19,491 --> 00:14:20,192
who are going to pull you

326
00:14:20,192 --> 00:14:24,797
in and be like, these are skills and tools.
Like, for example, like I think about

327
00:14:24,797 --> 00:14:27,800
like some things we talk about with
different kinds of facilitators, right?

328
00:14:27,833 --> 00:14:30,636
There's a difference between a facilitator
and often a therapist.

329
00:14:30,636 --> 00:14:32,972
Every therapist is not
not a facilitator. Right, Right.

330
00:14:32,972 --> 00:14:35,774
And some people are just great
at holding space.

331
00:14:35,774 --> 00:14:37,943
That doesn't mean
you know how to facilitate,

332
00:14:37,943 --> 00:14:41,413
Which is guide someone to somewhere,
which is guide and move people

333
00:14:41,413 --> 00:14:45,317
to a process, emotionally.
Based on who the unique people are

334
00:14:45,317 --> 00:14:48,754
and what's happening in the world
and energy and all the dynamics.

335
00:14:48,754 --> 00:14:49,989
And that is a different level.

336
00:14:49,989 --> 00:14:50,823
That's a different level.

337
00:14:50,823 --> 00:14:52,591
And a lot of people
who have these licenses

338
00:14:52,591 --> 00:14:53,993
and degrees, like psychologist
I work with,

339
00:14:53,993 --> 00:14:56,228
who will be, who immediately
say, I'm not a facilitator,

340
00:14:56,228 --> 00:14:59,598
I can't do what you do to move a group
through a process emotionally.

341
00:14:59,598 --> 00:15:00,933
YOLO: Cause that's not how I work.

342
00:15:00,933 --> 00:15:05,371
And also think about how often
when we're in session with folks

343
00:15:05,437 --> 00:15:08,240
we're training and the things
 that we're training them on.

344
00:15:08,240 --> 00:15:12,678
They say,
“I have never been trained on any of this.”

345
00:15:12,778 --> 00:15:15,781
“That this is the thing
that when my patients come to me,”

346
00:15:15,948 --> 00:15:19,518
“I have no idea what to do
because I've never been trained.”

347
00:15:19,518 --> 00:15:23,822
“And in this for our training,
y'all have taught me how to navigate this.”

348
00:15:23,822 --> 00:15:27,826
And it's, it happens a lot in our trainings
where there are therapists and clinicians

349
00:15:27,826 --> 00:15:32,164
who come in and they're just like
flabbergasted at the framing we have.

350
00:15:32,231 --> 00:15:33,198
And it makes me angry.

351
00:15:33,198 --> 00:15:35,100
And it's disturbing because, you know,

352
00:15:35,100 --> 00:15:37,836
first of all,
we kind of assume just like the doctors,

353
00:15:37,836 --> 00:15:39,271
I mean, like any other training

354
00:15:39,271 --> 00:15:41,974
that like you're getting this training,
this ethical and safe and like

355
00:15:41,974 --> 00:15:43,142
and the most progressive.

356
00:15:43,142 --> 00:15:46,412
But it's not what's happening, right? 
Now first of all, I in no way

357
00:15:46,412 --> 00:15:50,616
do I think the training of hardly
anything is the most progressive?

358
00:15:50,616 --> 00:15:51,183
Right, right, right.

359
00:15:51,183 --> 00:15:53,052
So like so we have to be clear about that.

360
00:15:53,052 --> 00:15:56,689
Like, yes, when we're setting up systems,

361
00:15:56,789 --> 00:15:59,792
right, and assembly lines for something

362
00:15:59,925 --> 00:16:02,928
that that will not be
the highest quality of care.

363
00:16:03,062 --> 00:16:06,498
In fact,
it will be the minimum requirement.

364
00:16:06,565 --> 00:16:08,901
Right.
We just we're meeting the requirement.

365
00:16:08,901 --> 00:16:09,368
And I go

366
00:16:09,368 --> 00:16:13,038
“Is that how we want our folks cared for?”
The people who are in the most distress.

367
00:16:13,138 --> 00:16:15,574
That's the system they're going to engage?

368
00:16:15,574 --> 00:16:16,875
That's a healer.

369
00:16:16,875 --> 00:16:19,745
I think about the pandemic
and how many people needed therapy.

370
00:16:19,745 --> 00:16:22,081
Right. And were desiring it.

371
00:16:22,081 --> 00:16:25,784
And the assembly line of therapists
being overrun

372
00:16:25,884 --> 00:16:29,121
with clients and patients
and like not even doing the proper due

373
00:16:29,121 --> 00:16:32,658
diligence or paperwork
or case notes or anything to make sure

374
00:16:32,658 --> 00:16:34,660
that folks were  being properly supported

375
00:16:34,660 --> 00:16:35,561
I will say this, and that

376
00:16:35,561 --> 00:16:38,564
may not be a popular stance to say,
but I have deep concerns also

377
00:16:38,564 --> 00:16:40,499
for the well-being of therapists
because I think that the way

378
00:16:40,499 --> 00:16:43,068
that therapy is constructed
is actually not healthy for them as well.

379
00:16:43,068 --> 00:16:44,103
No, how could it be?

380
00:16:44,103 --> 00:16:47,039
I mean, like when I think about some
people, I know you're sitting on a couch.

381
00:16:47,039 --> 00:16:52,211
Or you’re sitting on a in a room for hours
on end, hearing people share things.

382
00:16:52,211 --> 00:16:53,812
You're helping them work through things.

383
00:16:53,812 --> 00:16:56,782
And I'm thinking about, you know,
this is me as my somatics yoga teaching

384
00:16:56,782 --> 00:16:59,451
I'm like, “How are you getting your body?
How you getting them in their body?”

385
00:16:59,451 --> 00:17:00,419
I think about one, some of the

386
00:17:00,419 --> 00:17:03,489
some therapists I know in our network
who talk about like taking

387
00:17:03,489 --> 00:17:06,091
they're taking their clients
to the basketball court

388
00:17:06,091 --> 00:17:09,194
when they work with kids
and they process with the basketball court

389
00:17:09,194 --> 00:17:11,530
Goin on walks together.
I'm like, there's so many dynamic things.

390
00:17:11,530 --> 00:17:14,333
But that's not how many clinicians
are trained in that discipline.

391
00:17:14,333 --> 00:17:15,034
They're trained to be

392
00:17:15,034 --> 00:17:18,871
this is the model as opposed to like,
let's be dynamic, let's figure out

393
00:17:18,871 --> 00:17:20,539
other ways to kind of engage.

394
00:17:20,539 --> 00:17:23,442
And I feel like, you know, there's
so much therapist burnout.

395
00:17:23,442 --> 00:17:26,311
I mean, like how many folks in our network
do we know who like,

396
00:17:26,311 --> 00:17:29,748
“I can't even see clients right now
because I'm overwhelmed and distressed”

397
00:17:29,848 --> 00:17:30,883
or have retired.

398
00:17:30,883 --> 00:17:33,152
Yes, because they're like, I'm
a former therapist.

399
00:17:33,152 --> 00:17:38,290
Yeah, because this system is not giving
life in the way that I thought it was.

400
00:17:38,390 --> 00:17:40,092
And we hear that very, very often.

401
00:17:40,092 --> 00:17:43,095
Therapist saying it's not
 all it's cracked up to be.

402
00:17:43,195 --> 00:17:47,666
And how I can support people isn't always
what they need, which I think is, is,

403
00:17:47,900 --> 00:17:51,437
you know, some of the stories
that you've shared with me about like

404
00:17:51,537 --> 00:17:54,540
I don't think that the way
people are being supported is the best way

405
00:17:54,540 --> 00:17:56,809
and therefore trying to create new systems

406
00:17:56,809 --> 00:17:58,977
to be able to support people
where they actually are

407
00:17:58,977 --> 00:18:01,413
(music plays)

408
00:18:01,480 --> 00:18:02,314
The system’s piece

409
00:18:02,314 --> 00:18:05,317
is really important
when we talk about any practitioner

410
00:18:05,384 --> 00:18:06,051
because we have to really

411
00:18:06,051 --> 00:18:09,054
look at how that, what you said, like
the assembly line is creating.

412
00:18:09,054 --> 00:18:10,155
And we also have to talk about

413
00:18:10,155 --> 00:18:13,158
some individual responsibility
and community responsibility as well.

414
00:18:13,292 --> 00:18:15,994
Yeah, it's both, and. 
It's both, and.

415
00:18:16,061 --> 00:18:18,230
And I think that like
what's happening, you know,

416
00:18:18,230 --> 00:18:22,501
I think about an example of a story
I had with someone who is a very prominent

417
00:18:22,768 --> 00:18:24,570
healing and wellness leader

418
00:18:24,570 --> 00:18:29,141
and we had in kind of disagreement
around this idea that healing was finite.

419
00:18:29,141 --> 00:18:31,110
He was very committed,
this idea that like,

420
00:18:31,110 --> 00:18:34,580
“Oh, no, you can you need to heal that
and you can heal that and it can be done

421
00:18:34,580 --> 00:18:36,215
and you'll never have to deal
with that ever again.”

422
00:18:36,215 --> 00:18:39,952
And I was like, I want to know what world
he lives in because I want to go there.

423
00:18:39,952 --> 00:18:42,421
If that's true,
I want to go where that is.

424
00:18:42,421 --> 00:18:46,225
But to me, that's reflective of what
level and dimension

425
00:18:46,225 --> 00:18:48,494
of training and research and reading
have you done

426
00:18:48,494 --> 00:18:52,164
that has led you to be so rigid
and not understand the human experience?

427
00:18:52,331 --> 00:18:55,601
And like here you have this huge platform
and now people feel shame

428
00:18:55,601 --> 00:18:58,470
because they're not over
something that happened 30 years ago

429
00:18:58,470 --> 00:19:01,340
because they're activated
about something that happened yesterday.

430
00:19:01,340 --> 00:19:03,075
And I'm like,
“You're out here teaching this”

431
00:19:03,075 --> 00:19:06,845
“And because you are a man,
you will be read this way.”

432
00:19:06,845 --> 00:19:09,581
You will be trusted
with a lot of vulnerable people,

433
00:19:09,581 --> 00:19:11,817
a lot of vulnerable women,
I would say, as well.

434
00:19:11,817 --> 00:19:13,886
And so I'm always alarmed about the ways
in which

435
00:19:13,886 --> 00:19:16,588
because I'm always checking my ideas
and concepts, right.

436
00:19:16,588 --> 00:19:19,358
To see like,
what am I teaching? What am I sharing?

437
00:19:19,358 --> 00:19:20,893
Does this feel right?

438
00:19:20,893 --> 00:19:24,563
And having people around me
who say no and me listen and be like, 

439
00:19:24,563 --> 00:19:26,365
“Oh, I hear where you're going to that place.”

440
00:19:26,365 --> 00:19:28,133
But there are a lot of people
who are in various

441
00:19:28,133 --> 00:19:31,370
different kind of healing modalities
who have some of our platforms

442
00:19:31,537 --> 00:19:35,040
and some who are working with people
under the auspice of coaching,

443
00:19:35,174 --> 00:19:37,442
spiritual leadership, etc.

444
00:19:37,442 --> 00:19:39,011
And it's very evident

445
00:19:39,011 --> 00:19:40,345
the dimension of their skill

446
00:19:40,345 --> 00:19:43,448
is not as strong as they purport it to be.
Or they don't understand

447
00:19:43,649 --> 00:19:46,852
that they might be harming
a lot more people than they're helping.

448
00:19:46,952 --> 00:19:49,821
And, you know,
it makes me curious about like,

449
00:19:49,821 --> 00:19:51,690
what is the desire to tell people

450
00:19:51,690 --> 00:19:55,460
that you can get over something
permanently, right?

451
00:19:55,460 --> 00:19:59,831
Because what I know about my own lived
experience is that what has made me

452
00:19:59,831 --> 00:20:06,438
most powerful is that every single thing
I've experienced is useful.

453
00:20:06,605 --> 00:20:09,841
That it has sparked something in me,
whether curiosity,

454
00:20:09,841 --> 00:20:12,611
whether the opportunity
to see life differently,

455
00:20:12,611 --> 00:20:15,347
whether it is the opportunity
to forgive myself or someone else.

456
00:20:15,347 --> 00:20:16,715
Right. It's all been useful.

457
00:20:16,715 --> 00:20:20,385
It's one of the things my mom says
she thinks is most brilliant about me.

458
00:20:20,385 --> 00:20:22,254
She says, you use it all.

459
00:20:22,254 --> 00:20:23,222
She says, I see other people.

460
00:20:23,222 --> 00:20:24,990
They throw away stuff.

461
00:20:24,990 --> 00:20:26,959
They don't want to hold the whole thing.

462
00:20:26,959 --> 00:20:28,594
Yeah, they want to move from it.

463
00:20:28,594 --> 00:20:33,699
And you will take the whole thing and go,
“Yes, even the worst days”

464
00:20:33,765 --> 00:20:35,701
“I want those too.”

465
00:20:35,701 --> 00:20:38,136
Because what I found is that

466
00:20:38,136 --> 00:20:40,572
there is a day
when they are useful, right?

467
00:20:40,572 --> 00:20:41,373
When I can go

468
00:20:41,373 --> 00:20:43,875
“Oh I know. Okay, I clock that.”

469
00:20:43,875 --> 00:20:47,713
“I did this in this way, this time
I'm gonna do that different this time.”

470
00:20:47,713 --> 00:20:50,682
But if we discard it all, we delete.

471
00:20:50,682 --> 00:20:52,651
Now it's not useful to you. You can't.

472
00:20:52,651 --> 00:20:55,654
You can't recall it,
you can't make it useful.

473
00:20:55,854 --> 00:20:58,290
And I go,” So what is the point of

474
00:20:58,290 --> 00:21:01,293
all of these life lessons,
all of this pain, all these things,

475
00:21:01,326 --> 00:21:03,962
If we can't use it, if we can't
turn it into something?”

476
00:21:03,962 --> 00:21:08,267
The artist in me is like, “Turn it into something
beautiful. At the end of all this shit”

477
00:21:08,367 --> 00:21:11,837
“Y'all gon know I've been through some shit
and it's going to be beautiful as hell.”

478
00:21:11,937 --> 00:21:12,471
You know why?

479
00:21:12,471 --> 00:21:15,641
Because I used it all. 
In every single thing that I'm doing

480
00:21:15,641 --> 00:21:17,509
I'm using it. Right.

481
00:21:17,509 --> 00:21:19,945
And you were talking about my light
before.

482
00:21:19,945 --> 00:21:23,782
I'm a light it up, because otherwise
I'd be sitting here like, “Oh, my God.”

483
00:21:23,782 --> 00:21:26,718
“And then my dad.” And then it's like, What?

484
00:21:26,718 --> 00:21:27,352
That ain't.

485
00:21:27,352 --> 00:21:29,087
That ain't the pulse of the moment.

486
00:21:29,087 --> 00:21:30,956
That's not fully living.

487
00:21:30,956 --> 00:21:36,862
And I can't connect with other people
if I'm, if I'm deleting the things that,

488
00:21:36,962 --> 00:21:41,667
that, you know, in some ways cultivated
the opportunity for who I would become.

489
00:21:41,667 --> 00:21:42,601
Yeah. Yeah.

490
00:21:42,601 --> 00:21:44,403
And that's
what happens when you have irresponsible

491
00:21:44,403 --> 00:21:46,705
framework that you're kind of sharing.
NATALIE: Yeah.

492
00:21:46,705 --> 00:21:49,941
And I want to also hold this with the fact
that like there are a lot of community

493
00:21:49,941 --> 00:21:53,245
healers, indigenous healers, people
who are doing healing with crystals,

494
00:21:53,245 --> 00:21:57,449
people doing energy work, who are highly
ethical and highly accountable

495
00:21:57,549 --> 00:22:01,186
and very cautious and mindful
and will tell you that's not my domain.

496
00:22:01,186 --> 00:22:03,855
And I was just going to say
and they typically say “No”

497
00:22:03,855 --> 00:22:05,791
very often. Right.

498
00:22:05,791 --> 00:22:07,926
They work in limited hours. Right.

499
00:22:07,926 --> 00:22:12,698
They are cultivating sacred space
for themselves to stay aligned.

500
00:22:12,764 --> 00:22:13,131
Right.

501
00:22:13,131 --> 00:22:15,801
They're not like, oh, yeah,
I heal everyone all the time.

502
00:22:15,801 --> 00:22:19,338
They're like, “Y'all got me for
the three days after that, I'm in Tahiti

503
00:22:19,471 --> 00:22:23,742
because I got to pull it together
and come back when I am resourced”, right?

504
00:22:23,742 --> 00:22:25,110
And so I think about all the

505
00:22:25,110 --> 00:22:29,281
the therapists and just wellness workers
and different people who they burn out,

506
00:22:29,348 --> 00:22:32,250
they tired,
they talk about how they needs ain’t met.

507
00:22:32,250 --> 00:22:37,122
And I'm go, “I'm not sure what you can
offer someone into deep distress”

508
00:22:37,222 --> 00:22:40,892
“if you yourself are in deep distress.”

509
00:22:40,959 --> 00:22:42,961
Oooh, I'm so glad we're 
having this conversation

510
00:22:42,961 --> 00:22:47,132
because I'm really alarmed at the ways
in which everybody's yelling go to therapy

511
00:22:47,132 --> 00:22:49,067
and everybody's kind of “My therapist 
said”, I'm like sometimes

512
00:22:49,067 --> 00:22:50,535
some people say that my therapist said
something.

513
00:22:50,535 --> 00:22:51,536
I'd be like, Sis,

514
00:22:51,536 --> 00:22:53,372
YOLO: I need to have that person's
license number

515
00:22:53,372 --> 00:22:55,907
YOLO: because I have some questions
about how that was communicated.

516
00:22:55,907 --> 00:23:00,245
You know what I mean, like, so it's just like 
we need to realize we're engaging humans

517
00:23:00,245 --> 00:23:02,481
and we have to be active,
agents in the process.

518
00:23:02,481 --> 00:23:04,683
We can't just assume
they have all the power.

519
00:23:04,683 --> 00:23:06,685
Or that they're always right, 
that they’re always correct.

520
00:23:06,685 --> 00:23:09,821
No, this is a person who has a skill,
hopefully, who's been trained

521
00:23:09,821 --> 00:23:12,424
well with a skill, hopefully,
you know what I mean?

522
00:23:12,424 --> 00:23:13,425
And I need to assess them

523
00:23:13,425 --> 00:23:17,028
just like I assess the barber.
I keep going back to that example I use.

524
00:23:17,295 --> 00:23:21,466
Just like with that barber, if my line looks funky,
I'm going to have a question.

525
00:23:21,533 --> 00:23:23,001
YOLO: Why my line lookin like that?
NATALIE: I’m gonna have no question.

526
00:23:23,001 --> 00:23:25,237
I'm gonna be like, “Thank you, good luck.”

527
00:23:25,237 --> 00:23:26,138
“I'm not coming back.”

528
00:23:26,138 --> 00:23:29,541
(music plays)

529
00:23:29,641 --> 00:23:30,642
But also recognizing that

530
00:23:30,642 --> 00:23:33,645
mental health that becomes
challenging to advocate for ourselves.

531
00:23:33,779 --> 00:23:38,116
I think about, you know, when I had
my most recent sexual assault experience

532
00:23:38,216 --> 00:23:42,721
and I was sharing with my therapist
about the experience, and she said to me,

533
00:23:42,888 --> 00:23:46,691
“Why would you put yourself
in that situation?”

534
00:23:46,758 --> 00:23:49,127
And I was like,

535
00:23:49,127 --> 00:23:51,396
Hold up.

536
00:23:51,396 --> 00:23:53,465
So here's the thing.

537
00:23:53,465 --> 00:23:58,370
What you not going to do
is blame me for someone else's actions.

538
00:23:58,470 --> 00:24:00,472
That's not what we're doing today.

539
00:24:00,472 --> 00:24:04,009
Secondly, this is our last session
because you are clearly

540
00:24:04,009 --> 00:24:07,446
not qualified to support me
through what I am navigating.

541
00:24:07,512 --> 00:24:08,079
And it was like

542
00:24:08,079 --> 00:24:11,883
only because I have all of this training,
because I have all of this experience.

543
00:24:11,883 --> 00:24:13,452
Did I know “Hold up sis”

544
00:24:13,452 --> 00:24:16,455
“You saying...this ain't even it”, right?

545
00:24:16,655 --> 00:24:20,692
And then I could create a boundary
and then, you know, later in the session

546
00:24:20,692 --> 00:24:21,126
she's like, “Yeah,

547
00:24:21,126 --> 00:24:24,362
“I don't think I'm the right therapist
because I'm not trained and I'm you know”

548
00:24:24,362 --> 00:24:26,398
“I'm really not trained to be able
to, like”

549
00:24:26,398 --> 00:24:28,700
“support you through something
that's deeply traumatizing.”

550
00:24:28,700 --> 00:24:32,370
And I'm like,
“Well, sis, then what we doin’ here?

551
00:24:32,437 --> 00:24:33,872
Why are you you know what I mean?

552
00:24:33,872 --> 00:24:38,743
Like, if you are not able to support
the breath of what might come up,

553
00:24:38,844 --> 00:24:41,847
why wouldn't you communicate
that in the beginning to say,

554
00:24:41,880 --> 00:24:44,816
“Here's my expertise, here's what I can hold?”

555
00:24:44,816 --> 00:24:48,753
And I think about I'm a person
who does mental health work, right?

556
00:24:48,753 --> 00:24:51,156
And these are the experiences
that I'm having.

557
00:24:51,156 --> 00:24:56,061
So what are the experiences
of our community who do not have this

558
00:24:56,061 --> 00:24:59,764
much information, these many resources,
this much advocacy in them?

559
00:24:59,764 --> 00:25:00,765
Right.

560
00:25:00,765 --> 00:25:01,900
What is happening to them?

561
00:25:01,900 --> 00:25:05,770
And so I stand with you
in terms of like this rage around, like,

562
00:25:05,837 --> 00:25:07,572
no, no, no, this ain't it.

563
00:25:07,572 --> 00:25:09,941
Because so much harm is happening.

564
00:25:09,941 --> 00:25:12,544
And to people who are seeking out help

565
00:25:12,544 --> 00:25:16,114
and that's really, really dangerous.

566
00:25:16,181 --> 00:25:17,849
That's a powerful example.

567
00:25:17,849 --> 00:25:19,584
And like, think about like,
what would it mean

568
00:25:19,584 --> 00:25:22,787
if like, clinicians were to come up front
and say that?

569
00:25:22,921 --> 00:25:25,924
And I'm also like, really upset
that you had, that you experience that,

570
00:25:26,024 --> 00:25:27,926
that like literally
you were in this moment

571
00:25:27,926 --> 00:25:30,929
where you were really trying
to be vulnerable and share an experience

572
00:25:31,062 --> 00:25:35,567
and here comes patriarchy,
misogyny through this person,

573
00:25:35,667 --> 00:25:36,434
trying to shift

574
00:25:36,434 --> 00:25:40,272
focus away from the real choices
someone else made and make them yours.

575
00:25:40,272 --> 00:25:44,109
And that that's that's a horrible
experience to have.

576
00:25:44,276 --> 00:25:48,280
But it's also an experience so many of us
also have as well, which is unfortunate.

577
00:25:48,280 --> 00:25:48,580
Right.

578
00:25:48,580 --> 00:25:51,650
And it also was a reminder to me
is as far as we think we've come.

579
00:25:51,850 --> 00:25:52,717
Yeah.

580
00:25:52,717 --> 00:25:55,720
With as many people having therapy,
what is the quality

581
00:25:55,820 --> 00:25:58,423
of the therapeutic intervention
that they're having?

582
00:25:58,423 --> 00:25:58,657
Right.

583
00:25:58,657 --> 00:26:01,593
When people don't know that, they can say,

584
00:26:01,593 --> 00:26:04,262
“Hey, this is what I'm looking for
in a therapist.”

585
00:26:04,262 --> 00:26:05,964
So many people come to me and they'll say,

586
00:26:05,964 --> 00:26:08,533
“Oh, well”, I say, “You know,
you're going to therapy now.”

587
00:26:08,533 --> 00:26:09,334
“I'm so excited for you.”

588
00:26:09,334 --> 00:26:10,502
“How's that going?” Right?

589
00:26:10,502 --> 00:26:13,705
I do the check in with people because
I'm like, “What's your therapist talkin’ about?”

590
00:26:13,772 --> 00:26:16,775
And they're like,
“Oh, well, you know, I guess it's okay.”

591
00:26:16,975 --> 00:26:19,144
I, you know,
“I wish they were this way”, right?

592
00:26:19,144 --> 00:26:21,813
They'll say their wish list of
“I wish I was being supported in this way”

593
00:26:21,813 --> 00:26:23,882
or “I wish they were talking about this” or,
you know, whatever.

594
00:26:23,882 --> 00:26:27,352
And I say, you know,
you're in charge of your session.

595
00:26:27,385 --> 00:26:29,654
YOLO: You know, you're paying for the session.
You are paying for this session.

596
00:26:29,654 --> 00:26:32,190
If your needs are not met,
you need to communicate that

597
00:26:32,190 --> 00:26:34,159
to the therapist.
YOLO: Which can be a difficult thing.

598
00:26:34,159 --> 00:26:35,694
Their job is to support you.

599
00:26:35,694 --> 00:26:37,862
Absolutely scary,
terrifying, all the things.

600
00:26:37,862 --> 00:26:39,631
And guess what?

601
00:26:39,631 --> 00:26:42,801
They gon’ get they money
every time you sit down.

602
00:26:42,901 --> 00:26:45,537
and so are we gon’ get our needs met
or are we going to be like,

603
00:26:45,537 --> 00:26:48,974
“Let me just give you my money”
and you over here going to Barneys, but

604
00:26:48,974 --> 00:26:52,944
I'm over here still going through stuff
and not supported, but spending my money.

605
00:26:52,944 --> 00:26:54,512
That ain't it either. 
YOLO: Yeah.

606
00:26:54,512 --> 00:26:58,416
And so recognizing that,
like as a community, we have to know

607
00:26:58,483 --> 00:27:00,518
that we get to ask questions.

608
00:27:00,518 --> 00:27:04,656
We get to say, “Hey,
this is what support looks like for me.”

609
00:27:04,756 --> 00:27:05,757
“I'm curious

610
00:27:05,757 --> 00:27:08,760
about why you're asking me
this question”, right?

611
00:27:08,893 --> 00:27:12,230
“Is there another way
you might help me navigate this thing?”

612
00:27:12,330 --> 00:27:14,899
“This feels like too large
of a step for me.”

613
00:27:14,899 --> 00:27:16,701
“What would be a smaller step?”

614
00:27:16,701 --> 00:27:20,171
“This medication makes me feel this way,
and I don't feel comfortable with it.”

615
00:27:20,405 --> 00:27:21,906
“What are my other options?”

616
00:27:21,906 --> 00:27:24,476
“Can you support me in the journey
of discovering other options?”

617
00:27:24,476 --> 00:27:27,212
I think that happens a lot with folks
who are taking medications

618
00:27:27,212 --> 00:27:28,179
is that what happens is

619
00:27:28,179 --> 00:27:30,248
you have this medication
which makes you feel under water

620
00:27:30,248 --> 00:27:32,951
and all the variety of side effects
because the reality is

621
00:27:32,951 --> 00:27:35,520
that many mental health medications
come with side effects.

622
00:27:35,553 --> 00:27:38,690
But like if you don't have the,
if you don't feel comfortable,

623
00:27:38,723 --> 00:27:40,892
a lot of people feel comfortable advocating
and say “I don't like this”

624
00:27:40,892 --> 00:27:41,993
So they just stop taking them.

625
00:27:41,993 --> 00:27:43,962
Well and also very many, you know,

626
00:27:43,962 --> 00:27:48,133
doctors and folks prescribing
medication are saying, “this is the answer.”

627
00:27:48,133 --> 00:27:48,900
Yes exactly.

628
00:27:48,900 --> 00:27:51,269
And you're like, “Okay.”

629
00:27:51,269 --> 00:27:52,704
And so those are two pieces, Right? Right.

630
00:27:52,704 --> 00:27:53,438
So one is like,

631
00:27:53,438 --> 00:27:56,875
maybe I do feel like I want to engage
in medication as a strategy,

632
00:27:56,941 --> 00:27:59,010
but I'm scared to say
that I feel uncomfortable with

633
00:27:59,010 --> 00:28:00,412
I don't feel good about the side effects.

634
00:28:00,412 --> 00:28:03,181
So I stop, which has other kind
of implications, potentially.

635
00:28:03,181 --> 00:28:03,848
Right.

636
00:28:03,848 --> 00:28:06,651
And then there’s a piece about like, you know,
I talked to a lot of black psychiatrists

637
00:28:06,651 --> 00:28:09,654
in our network about monitoring
and effective monitoring.

638
00:28:09,788 --> 00:28:11,556
And of the ways in which black folks
are monitoring. 

639
00:28:11,556 --> 00:28:13,491
When I say monitoring 
it's like when you take your medication,

640
00:28:13,491 --> 00:28:15,360
whether you're coming in
with check in check ins

641
00:28:15,360 --> 00:28:17,429
or checking your blood and all this stuff
and like making sure

642
00:28:17,429 --> 00:28:20,131
seeing how your progress, progressing
with the medication

643
00:28:20,131 --> 00:28:22,434
and how that doesn't happen
for a lot of black folks.

644
00:28:22,434 --> 00:28:25,303
A lot of black children. 
NATALIE: Or not as often as it should happen

645
00:28:25,303 --> 00:28:26,071
In the same way.

646
00:28:26,071 --> 00:28:26,271
Right.

647
00:28:26,271 --> 00:28:28,807
So I'm thinking about that dimension
of like that happening.

648
00:28:28,807 --> 00:28:29,641
And you're right,

649
00:28:29,641 --> 00:28:32,110
(music plays)

650
00:28:32,210 --> 00:28:35,213
We have to recognize and hold that

651
00:28:35,246 --> 00:28:38,249
while medicine
can be a powerful intervention and tool,

652
00:28:38,283 --> 00:28:40,485
there are big interests in this country

653
00:28:40,485 --> 00:28:43,688
that are not in, that that are interested
in the quick fix of the pill,

654
00:28:43,922 --> 00:28:47,692
as opposed to recognizing that like
depression and bipolar and schizophrenia

655
00:28:47,692 --> 00:28:52,530
need broader societal interventions,
not just this quick fix pill.

656
00:28:52,630 --> 00:28:53,331
Right?

657
00:28:53,331 --> 00:28:56,935
And the ways in which overdiagnosis
and diagnostic inflation happen

658
00:28:57,102 --> 00:28:58,369
to create a space where everybody

659
00:28:58,369 --> 00:29:02,006
just getting a pill, getting a pill.
But it's like, well, okay, wait, what?

660
00:29:02,207 --> 00:29:06,144
Because that in any tool can be dangerous
depending on your relationship to it.

661
00:29:06,177 --> 00:29:08,279
Yeah, medicine can be great
in relationship to it.

662
00:29:08,279 --> 00:29:10,648
Yoga could be dangerous depending
 on your relationship to it. Right.

663
00:29:10,648 --> 00:29:11,382
All these things.

664
00:29:11,382 --> 00:29:14,819
So it's about what, I think as a culture,
we have to ask this question

665
00:29:14,886 --> 00:29:18,523
“What is our relationship
to these mental health medications?”

666
00:29:18,623 --> 00:29:20,225
“Are they useful for what we're doing?”

667
00:29:20,225 --> 00:29:23,228
Because there's a lot of research
that talks about like the question

668
00:29:23,294 --> 00:29:26,865
Have questions about SSRIs, selective
serotonin intake

669
00:29:26,965 --> 00:29:30,135
reuptake inhibitors -
like with depressive, like for depression.

670
00:29:30,135 --> 00:29:30,568
Right.

671
00:29:30,568 --> 00:29:33,738
There's a lot of questions about like,
you know, the effectiveness

672
00:29:33,738 --> 00:29:36,241
of some of these medications versus
the side effects. Right.

673
00:29:36,241 --> 00:29:37,909
And we have a
right to ask those questions.

674
00:29:37,909 --> 00:29:39,911
NATALIE: And...

675
00:29:39,978 --> 00:29:43,848
we have to ask who's funding? 
YOLO: Yes.

676
00:29:43,948 --> 00:29:45,717
The diagnosis. 
YOLO: Oh, yes.

677
00:29:45,717 --> 00:29:47,085
That is leading. 
YOLO: Yes.

678
00:29:47,085 --> 00:29:49,988
To people needing to be on medications.

679
00:29:49,988 --> 00:29:53,958
And how often is that
being manipulated such

680
00:29:53,958 --> 00:29:58,530
that pills are the first option
for many folks

681
00:29:58,596 --> 00:30:01,332
when maybe another intervention
actually would be the right thing.

682
00:30:01,332 --> 00:30:02,300
But the thing about it is

683
00:30:02,300 --> 00:30:03,201
and you know, Dr. Thomas Insel

684
00:30:03,201 --> 00:30:04,369
and his book

685
00:30:04,369 --> 00:30:06,805
From Mental Health
to Mental Illness talks about this a lot.

686
00:30:06,805 --> 00:30:11,142
Social people intervention is what we know
supports people with mental conditions.

687
00:30:11,209 --> 00:30:14,779
You know, we know that having navigation
around care, having social support,

688
00:30:14,913 --> 00:30:16,381
people who have had similar diagnosis

689
00:30:16,381 --> 00:30:19,984
and you can often be very dynamic
and transformative, and helpful.

690
00:30:19,984 --> 00:30:22,353
i.e. Community.
People.
Friends

691
00:30:22,353 --> 00:30:23,655
But it's expensive.

692
00:30:23,655 --> 00:30:24,155
NATALIE: Yes.
It's one of the reasons that I have such a beef with, like

693
00:30:24,155 --> 00:30:26,591
YOLO: It's one of the reasons 
that I have such a beef with, like

694
00:30:26,591 --> 00:30:29,327
why I'm grateful that in this country
we're talking about peer specialists

695
00:30:29,327 --> 00:30:32,330
and making it professional,
but they're paid crap wages.

696
00:30:32,430 --> 00:30:35,900
So it's like, you've got a peer specialists
being paid to live at the poverty line

697
00:30:36,000 --> 00:30:38,503
to do really rigorous
and hard work, right?

698
00:30:38,503 --> 00:30:41,472
People who've been in conditions that
they’ve been and be triggered and activated.

699
00:30:41,472 --> 00:30:44,609
And so my beef with all of this is

700
00:30:44,676 --> 00:30:46,010
everything's expensive.

701
00:30:46,010 --> 00:30:47,312
YOLO: Yeah.

702
00:30:47,312 --> 00:30:49,881
But we still got Maseratis.

703
00:30:49,881 --> 00:30:51,916
We still sending people to space.

704
00:30:51,916 --> 00:30:54,686
YOLO: Okay. 
People still got yachts.

705
00:30:54,686 --> 00:30:57,188
So is it that things are too expensive

706
00:30:57,188 --> 00:31:00,425
or we are spending money
in ridiculous ways?

707
00:31:00,491 --> 00:31:02,861
I mean, there's a large argument as well

708
00:31:02,861 --> 00:31:06,664
that Rob Wimpond, 
who is the author of the book

709
00:31:06,664 --> 00:31:08,266
I want to make sure I say it correctly.

710
00:31:08,266 --> 00:31:09,767
Your Consent Is Not Required

711
00:31:09,767 --> 00:31:12,971
He talks about like this
myth of the health care is underfunded.

712
00:31:12,971 --> 00:31:15,273
He said I think actually it's not that health
care is underfunded.

713
00:31:15,273 --> 00:31:19,043
It's just like, where is the funding going
and for what?

714
00:31:19,244 --> 00:31:22,247
And so he talks about like, you know,
this is a billion dollar industry.

715
00:31:22,280 --> 00:31:23,615
Where is the money going?

716
00:31:23,615 --> 00:31:24,282
Is the question

717
00:31:26,718 --> 00:31:27,952
That's what I want to come back to.

718
00:31:27,952 --> 00:31:29,854
You mentioned, so diagnostic inflation,

719
00:31:29,854 --> 00:31:33,758
people who are listening or watching
is essentially something that happens

720
00:31:33,758 --> 00:31:38,863
where the diagnostic criteria in the DSM,
which is Diagnostic Statistical Manual,

721
00:31:38,863 --> 00:31:40,164
kind of the Bible of psychiatry

722
00:31:40,164 --> 00:31:43,167
and mental health in the West.
Which if you don't know about the DSM,

723
00:31:43,334 --> 00:31:46,337
take a night off from Google,

724
00:31:46,437 --> 00:31:50,174
from from Netflix and go here and Google
the DSM

725
00:31:50,375 --> 00:31:54,112
and the history of the DSM, honey,
it is riveting.

726
00:31:54,212 --> 00:31:56,514
It is riveting. It is riveting. 
YOLO: It's very riveting.

727
00:31:56,514 --> 00:31:59,183
So what happens with DSM
is that essentially these criteria

728
00:31:59,183 --> 00:32:02,820
for let's say,
the criteria for depression gets inflated.

729
00:32:02,921 --> 00:32:06,391
And when I say diagnostic inflation,
it means that what was once a very like,

730
00:32:06,457 --> 00:32:10,895
precise criteria for who could qualify for
this condition gets expanded.

731
00:32:10,962 --> 00:32:13,698
And the expansion is curious
because people begin to wonder,

732
00:32:13,698 --> 00:32:16,968
“Well, who is funding our supporting
the research around this expansion?”

733
00:32:17,135 --> 00:32:20,872
Because we end up happening now where at
one point it was only you and me could be

734
00:32:20,905 --> 00:32:22,040
meet this criteria.

735
00:32:22,040 --> 00:32:24,542
NATALIE: Now me, your cousin, 
your momma, everybody else.

736
00:32:24,609 --> 00:32:27,679
Which creates other avenues
for medication.

737
00:32:27,912 --> 00:32:28,980
Mm. Right.

738
00:32:28,980 --> 00:32:32,583
And so there's a lot of, like activists,
disability justice activist,

739
00:32:32,583 --> 00:32:35,787
mad activists, who have a lot of questions
about diagnostic criteria.

740
00:32:35,787 --> 00:32:38,623
I'm Alan Francis,
who was formerly on the DSM committee,

741
00:32:38,623 --> 00:32:39,657
actually has a lot of questions.

742
00:32:39,657 --> 00:32:42,026
He talks about this,
he has this book called Saving Normal

743
00:32:42,026 --> 00:32:44,963
and why I don't get the care
for the framing of Saving Normal.

744
00:32:45,897 --> 00:32:47,065
What he's trying to say is

745
00:32:47,065 --> 00:32:50,535
he's recognizing
how diagnostic inflation is being used

746
00:32:50,535 --> 00:32:54,205
as a tool of companies
to over medicate people and make people

747
00:32:54,205 --> 00:32:58,943
everyone have a condition
and making every day humanness

748
00:32:59,043 --> 00:33:00,244
now a Pathology.

749
00:33:00,244 --> 00:33:00,511
Yeah.

750
00:33:00,511 --> 00:33:03,715
It's a problem to solve
which means there's money to make off of it

751
00:33:04,248 --> 00:33:07,118
And welcome to capitalism

752
00:33:07,185 --> 00:33:11,489
and also like this is dangerous, right?
This is deeply harmful.

753
00:33:11,656 --> 00:33:14,092
And when we think about
deeply marginalized folks,

754
00:33:14,092 --> 00:33:17,328
when we think about black trans folks,
when we think about the most marginalized

755
00:33:17,328 --> 00:33:22,166
in our community, who again and again
and again will be deeply impacted

756
00:33:22,233 --> 00:33:24,769
by what I think is really criminal, right?

757
00:33:24,769 --> 00:33:25,269
Yeah.

758
00:33:25,269 --> 00:33:29,073
This misuse and taking advantage of,
you know,

759
00:33:29,073 --> 00:33:32,076
folks who don't, are not in a position
to advocate for themselves.

760
00:33:32,310 --> 00:33:33,611
Yeah. Yeah.

761
00:33:33,611 --> 00:33:35,513
I mean there's
a lot of dimensions to that.

762
00:33:35,513 --> 00:33:40,151
I mean I just think about also the ways
in which people, you know,

763
00:33:40,218 --> 00:33:43,788
are often like, you know, drugged in ways
that are not helpful when they

764
00:33:43,955 --> 00:33:45,223
when they're institutionalized
and when they’re

765
00:33:45,223 --> 00:33:47,125
brought into inpatient care.

766
00:33:47,125 --> 00:33:47,859
NATALIE: Mm hmm. 
Right.

767
00:33:47,859 --> 00:33:50,862
And the impact of that.
And when you think about some of,

768
00:33:50,895 --> 00:33:54,399
you know, some some films
from the 80s in the 90s and

769
00:33:54,399 --> 00:33:58,569
you see people being institutionalized,
you always see them being drugged.

770
00:33:58,636 --> 00:34:01,406
You always see that
as part of what is normal.

771
00:34:01,406 --> 00:34:04,042
And I think, you
know, as just people, right.

772
00:34:04,042 --> 00:34:07,845
We watch that and we go, “Oh, this is
entertainment”, but what is this based on?

773
00:34:07,945 --> 00:34:10,948
Where did we get the idea that everyone
who is institutionalized

774
00:34:10,948 --> 00:34:13,351
needs to be drugged
to the point of drooling?

775
00:34:13,351 --> 00:34:15,953
Even that term, “institutionalized” is like,
you know, I mean, like

776
00:34:15,953 --> 00:34:18,723
brought, its not brought in to care
because it's not care, right?

777
00:34:18,723 --> 00:34:20,958
So like, like it’s really like
imprisoned almost

778
00:34:20,958 --> 00:34:23,528
is the more appropriate term
for what's really happening.

779
00:34:23,528 --> 00:34:24,162
Right.

780
00:34:24,162 --> 00:34:28,866
I did a conversation a while back called
the Black People Left Behind

781
00:34:28,933 --> 00:34:31,903
talking about, you know, all across
this country there are black people

782
00:34:31,903 --> 00:34:37,608
who are imprisoned
because of mental conditions and distress.

783
00:34:37,708 --> 00:34:40,244
There are folks in these behavioral health
hospitals,

784
00:34:40,244 --> 00:34:44,148
quote unquote, because of distress,
who are really left behind.

785
00:34:44,248 --> 00:34:46,350
When we think about racial justice
and social justice,

786
00:34:46,350 --> 00:34:48,252
we're often
not thinking about those folks.

787
00:34:48,252 --> 00:34:51,856
We're not thinking about, you know, folks
who are living with schizophrenia,

788
00:34:51,956 --> 00:34:53,891
who are often dismissed and denied.

789
00:34:53,891 --> 00:34:55,860
Particularly around this 
like this bourgeoisie stuff. Right.

790
00:34:55,860 --> 00:34:58,996
You know, it's like they're not the black people
we're trying to bring it to to safety.

791
00:34:59,030 --> 00:35:00,398
You know what I mean?

792
00:35:00,398 --> 00:35:02,100
And and
I just think about those dimensions.

793
00:35:02,100 --> 00:35:04,735
It's like why it's so necessary for us to

794
00:35:04,735 --> 00:35:05,736
Um...

795
00:35:05,736 --> 00:35:07,004
always uphold.

796
00:35:07,004 --> 00:35:08,239
Particularly in healing justice work,

797
00:35:08,239 --> 00:35:10,975
to think about the folks
at the margins, Right?

798
00:35:10,975 --> 00:35:14,011
the folks whose conditions are not the...
everybody can talk about depression, anxiety,

799
00:35:14,011 --> 00:35:15,780
but are we talking about 
schizophrenia like that?

800
00:35:15,780 --> 00:35:18,182
Are we talking about
borderline personality like that?

801
00:35:18,182 --> 00:35:20,918
Are we talking about like,
you know, postpartum depression like that?

802
00:35:20,918 --> 00:35:22,186
There’s a lot of things we’re not.

803
00:35:22,186 --> 00:35:25,323
And also, do we even know
what those things actually mean?

804
00:35:25,523 --> 00:35:26,290
Yeah.

805
00:35:26,290 --> 00:35:30,728
Do we know what the signs of the, signs
and symptoms of these things are?

806
00:35:30,795 --> 00:35:32,763
And then do we know how to navigate it?

807
00:35:32,763 --> 00:35:35,032
Should it be us
or someone we care about one day?

808
00:35:35,032 --> 00:35:37,001
And the answer is no.

809
00:35:37,001 --> 00:35:41,506
Because when mental health, you know,
things happen in people's families,

810
00:35:41,606 --> 00:35:42,707
no one knows what to do.

811
00:35:42,707 --> 00:35:45,510
Yeah, and it's so funny, 
not only do we know that piece

812
00:35:45,510 --> 00:35:46,644
But also I think about

813
00:35:46,644 --> 00:35:50,314
do we understand where the pain,
this might be stemming from?

814
00:35:50,314 --> 00:35:51,682
So Dr. Bruce Perry

815
00:35:51,682 --> 00:35:53,184
has a book with Oprah Winfrey called

816
00:35:53,184 --> 00:35:54,051
What Happened To You

817
00:35:54,051 --> 00:35:54,852
It’s a really great book.

818
00:35:54,852 --> 00:35:56,120
I recommend you read it.

819
00:35:56,120 --> 00:35:57,955
Oprah talks about her experience.
Dr. Bruce Perry

820
00:35:57,955 --> 00:36:01,225
talks about his experience
with wellness and mental health.

821
00:36:01,225 --> 00:36:02,960
And one of the things
that’s really brilliant

822
00:36:02,960 --> 00:36:04,695
about what he talks about,
I think it was one piece he's

823
00:36:04,695 --> 00:36:06,364
talking about like, some of the personality

824
00:36:06,364 --> 00:36:09,333
disorders and different conditions,
he said, as opposed to framing it

825
00:36:09,333 --> 00:36:13,538
this way, said thinking about it
like this, with the personality disorders,

826
00:36:13,604 --> 00:36:17,675
you have someone who has become
highly disregulated and developed

827
00:36:17,675 --> 00:36:22,446
very highly maladaptive coping strategies
to navigate their pain and distress.

828
00:36:22,513 --> 00:36:24,782
And I was like, “Wow, that's
such a different way to think about that.”

829
00:36:24,782 --> 00:36:26,551
Because when you hear
when you get this BPD

830
00:36:26,551 --> 00:36:28,486
Personality Disorder, you like,
“Oh God, you crazy!”

831
00:36:28,486 --> 00:36:29,353
There’s a lot going on!

832
00:36:29,353 --> 00:36:33,457
Like, you don't think that like,
“Oh, this is a person who's been in pain”

833
00:36:33,524 --> 00:36:34,292
“Who was developed a”

834
00:36:34,292 --> 00:36:37,328
“variety of different strategies
to navigate that pain.”

835
00:36:37,328 --> 00:36:38,496
That are not helpful for them.

836
00:36:38,496 --> 00:36:42,099
And I think the lens that we talk
about mental health in the country

837
00:36:42,166 --> 00:36:45,069
generally is always over there.

838
00:36:45,069 --> 00:36:46,504
It's something that's going on.

839
00:36:46,504 --> 00:36:47,972
It's too much
we don't know how to deal with it,

840
00:36:47,972 --> 00:36:51,309
and so just get it out,
get it away from me, essentially.

841
00:36:51,375 --> 00:36:54,912
But we know that every number one,
every single person has mental health,

842
00:36:55,012 --> 00:36:57,448
that over the course of a lifetime,
people are going to experience

843
00:36:57,448 --> 00:37:00,551
tremendous life stressors
and traumatic events.

844
00:37:00,551 --> 00:37:05,056
And so recognizing that, like avoiding
the conversation of mental health and care

845
00:37:05,056 --> 00:37:09,160
and spending any time thinking about
that is frankly dangerous for each of us,

846
00:37:09,160 --> 00:37:12,964
because across our lifetime
we are going to be impacted,

847
00:37:13,197 --> 00:37:16,200
whether it is us or someone we know
and love and care about.

848
00:37:16,367 --> 00:37:19,203
And so like not finding the solution
or at least

849
00:37:19,203 --> 00:37:22,807
not even beginning to think about it to me
is deeply, deeply troubling.

850
00:37:22,807 --> 00:37:23,574
You know?
YOLO: Yep, it is.

851
00:37:23,574 --> 00:37:26,510
(music plays)

852
00:37:26,611 --> 00:37:28,779
You know,
as a as a healing justice worker,

853
00:37:28,779 --> 00:37:31,349
you know, I've done a variety of different
health and wellness interventions,

854
00:37:31,349 --> 00:37:32,984
taught effective behavioral health interventions

855
00:37:32,984 --> 00:37:36,020
with the CDC, comprehensive risk
counseling services

856
00:37:36,020 --> 00:37:37,321
NATALIE: So many
YOLO: All these things.

857
00:37:37,321 --> 00:37:39,223
YOLO: And also created interventions, right.

858
00:37:39,423 --> 00:37:41,192
And done research projects.

859
00:37:41,192 --> 00:37:43,995
I think it's always important for us,
wherever we are as practitioners,

860
00:37:43,995 --> 00:37:46,397
to know our boundaries
and our limitations,

861
00:37:46,397 --> 00:37:50,301
to know what we don't do
Right? For whatever reason.

862
00:37:50,501 --> 00:37:53,838
And so I really want to implore you,
if you are doing healing work, to begin

863
00:37:53,838 --> 00:37:57,608
to think about limitations,
what are your strengths and your powers?

864
00:37:57,608 --> 00:37:59,210
And what are also
the things that you need to know

865
00:37:59,210 --> 00:38:02,246
that you are not good at and like and help

866
00:38:02,246 --> 00:38:05,983
support people around you and help them see
those things in themselves as well.

867
00:38:06,050 --> 00:38:08,586
And getting further skills 
or further collaboration

868
00:38:08,586 --> 00:38:10,855
because I wonder what it would be like
if therapists were collaborating

869
00:38:10,855 --> 00:38:12,356
with life coaches
instead of arguing on Twitter

870
00:38:12,356 --> 00:38:15,559
all the time about who's the true healer
or whatever that looks like.

871
00:38:15,660 --> 00:38:16,761
Because like

872
00:38:16,761 --> 00:38:19,230
there are some life coaches who are doing
amazing work. absolutely brilliant

873
00:38:19,230 --> 00:38:20,765
NATALIE: Absolutely brilliant work.
YOLO: Right?

874
00:38:20,765 --> 00:38:22,033
And there are some crystal healers.

875
00:38:22,033 --> 00:38:24,902
So I'm like, “That's a dope way 
to relate to those concepts.”

876
00:38:24,902 --> 00:38:25,770
There are some astrologers,

877
00:38:25,770 --> 00:38:28,773
so I'm like, “Oh, you really help people
to build self-reflexivity”

878
00:38:28,973 --> 00:38:31,075
And that's a great tool, right?

879
00:38:31,075 --> 00:38:32,843
There are some group facilitators

880
00:38:32,843 --> 00:38:36,380
who could who can hold a space
and move people to an emotional process

881
00:38:36,480 --> 00:38:40,084
in a way that I think is so beautiful and
daring and necessary for collective work.

882
00:38:40,117 --> 00:38:42,086
Yolo, if you wanna talk about me, 
just talk about me

883
00:38:42,086 --> 00:38:43,454
YOLO: Oh, my Lord Jesus...Ok.

884
00:38:43,454 --> 00:38:44,388
There you go. Okay.

885
00:38:44,388 --> 00:38:46,791
But yes, all those, so we need us all.

886
00:38:46,791 --> 00:38:49,894
But we also need to support our folks
with helping to understand

887
00:38:49,894 --> 00:38:53,931
the signs of 
“this may not be a great place for me.”

888
00:38:54,031 --> 00:38:57,601
“This might, this might not be healthy.”
And recognizing our capacity

889
00:38:57,668 --> 00:39:00,204
as individuals, but also professionally,

890
00:39:00,204 --> 00:39:02,773
because I think that's the thing
that bumps up against each other,

891
00:39:02,773 --> 00:39:05,843
right, is people who want to do good work
and want to help

892
00:39:05,843 --> 00:39:10,314
and usher people into whatever
the next iteration of themselves.

893
00:39:10,414 --> 00:39:12,783
That work is endless. 
YOLO: Yeah.

894
00:39:12,783 --> 00:39:14,652
And so where are the breaks?

895
00:39:14,652 --> 00:39:16,120
Where are the pauses?

896
00:39:16,120 --> 00:39:18,823
Where is your own healing in that process?

897
00:39:18,823 --> 00:39:24,061
And are we building
in time to assess our process?

898
00:39:24,128 --> 00:39:26,731
To assess if the way we're doing it

899
00:39:26,731 --> 00:39:31,302
is the way that it needs
to be done in this current climate?

900
00:39:31,402 --> 00:39:33,003
And when we think about the pandemic

901
00:39:33,003 --> 00:39:35,439
and we think about life 
after the pandemic, right?

902
00:39:35,439 --> 00:39:38,409
People don't talk about the pandemic
no more because it's over.

903
00:39:38,409 --> 00:39:38,976
But folks

904
00:39:38,976 --> 00:39:42,780
who are navigating disabilities, folks 
who are navigating all kind of, right,

905
00:39:42,780 --> 00:39:45,916
like they are still in this pandemic
while everybody outside.

906
00:39:45,916 --> 00:39:46,650
Right.

907
00:39:46,650 --> 00:39:50,020
And so recognizing that we all have
to understand our limitations

908
00:39:50,087 --> 00:39:55,359
and recognize that like, part of it
is about being self-reflexive and going,

909
00:39:55,426 --> 00:39:57,661
“Hmm, well, if I've done it the way”

910
00:39:57,661 --> 00:40:01,165
“I've always done it,
but the world around me is different.”

911
00:40:01,232 --> 00:40:04,235
“Is that still useful?
Is that still helpful?”

912
00:40:04,235 --> 00:40:07,738
And I think that curiosity
is the important piece, not the judgment.

913
00:40:07,738 --> 00:40:09,807
Right? “Oh, that's a bad thing
or this is a good thing.”

914
00:40:09,807 --> 00:40:11,308
Not useful to us, right?

915
00:40:11,308 --> 00:40:15,579
But being like, “Hmm, how am I contributing
to the culture of healing?”

916
00:40:15,646 --> 00:40:17,715
“Who could I work with?” Right?

917
00:40:17,715 --> 00:40:19,617
I wish healers work together more.

918
00:40:19,617 --> 00:40:22,953
Yeah, because there's more opportunities 
for, for better.

919
00:40:23,187 --> 00:40:26,524
Like for a different dimension of healing
when we collaborate.

920
00:40:26,524 --> 00:40:26,957
And I think

921
00:40:26,957 --> 00:40:30,694
that's the brilliance of the work
we get to do at BEAM is we get to bring

922
00:40:30,761 --> 00:40:33,130
all different kinds of healers together.

923
00:40:33,130 --> 00:40:36,901
And I think about the work that we did
in Buffalo after, you know, after this

924
00:40:36,901 --> 00:40:39,937
mass shooting happened
and we went to go support that community

925
00:40:39,937 --> 00:40:42,306
because,
we felt like it was important, right?

926
00:40:42,306 --> 00:40:45,609
And we pulled up
with eight different kinds of healers.

927
00:40:45,609 --> 00:40:47,044
We had aromatherapy.

928
00:40:47,044 --> 00:40:49,580
We had a therapist,
the traditional council psychologist.

929
00:40:49,580 --> 00:40:51,215
We had a sound bath healer. Right?

930
00:40:51,215 --> 00:40:55,252
We came in as with our healing
facilitation work. And like...

931
00:40:55,352 --> 00:40:56,220
one of the

932
00:40:56,220 --> 00:40:58,923
things we got from some for,
some of the folks in Buffalo was like

933
00:40:58,923 --> 00:41:01,492
they had never had an opportunity engage
so many different practices. 

934
00:41:01,492 --> 00:41:02,293
NATALIE: All at once.

935
00:41:02,326 --> 00:41:03,594
YOLO: All at once. Right?

936
00:41:03,594 --> 00:41:05,930
And like in different ways,
in different spaces and times.

937
00:41:05,930 --> 00:41:08,933
And so, I know I learned a lot
from that experience.

938
00:41:08,933 --> 00:41:11,836
I learned about the importance
of giving people different entry points.

939
00:41:11,836 --> 00:41:13,871
There were certain
people who came into that space

940
00:41:13,871 --> 00:41:14,839
Um...

941
00:41:14,972 --> 00:41:19,677
in buffalo and were like, “Oh, the sound
bath was...that really helped me.”

942
00:41:19,743 --> 00:41:22,146
And then some people
who came into the peer circle that we led

943
00:41:22,146 --> 00:41:22,646
and they were like,

944
00:41:22,646 --> 00:41:24,849
“Yolo when you said that
and y’all did that, that really helped me.”

945
00:41:24,849 --> 00:41:26,550
But then it was people
who like the coloring.

946
00:41:26,550 --> 00:41:29,053
“Oh, she gave me the aromatherapy spray,
that sage”

947
00:41:29,053 --> 00:41:31,622
“It makes me feel
like I can kind of open up more”, right?

948
00:41:31,622 --> 00:41:34,191
Some people came and they said
I didn't know what to expect.

949
00:41:34,191 --> 00:41:35,559
And we started dancing in that floor

950
00:41:35,559 --> 00:41:37,795
and they start getting on a phone call
and talk about

951
00:41:37,795 --> 00:41:39,363
“Hey y'all, they all right”

952
00:41:39,363 --> 00:41:42,099
“Y’all better come on down here
because this is feeling good”, right?

953
00:41:42,099 --> 00:41:44,435
And recognizing that 
that's what our folks need. 
YOLO: Yes.

954
00:41:44,435 --> 00:41:47,771
We don't all need the same thing,
but we all have some need. 
YOLO: Yes.

955
00:41:47,905 --> 00:41:53,110
And so where do we go to to fill it,
to be met, to be resourced? 
YOLO: Yes.

956
00:41:53,210 --> 00:41:56,881
And are those things actually good for us
or just on the surface?

957
00:41:56,947 --> 00:41:57,248
They are.

958
00:41:57,248 --> 00:41:59,917
And I talk to my mom about that a lot
because she'll see stuff,

959
00:41:59,917 --> 00:42:00,885
you know, on social media.

960
00:42:00,885 --> 00:42:02,019
And she doesn't have the same lens.

961
00:42:02,019 --> 00:42:05,422
Obviously, there's a generational lens,
so she can't spot the fake things.

962
00:42:05,456 --> 00:42:06,223
Right. So she'd be like

963
00:42:06,223 --> 00:42:10,561
“Well they said, they gon’ do X, Y, Z” and
I'll be like, “Girl, that's a scam,” right?

964
00:42:10,561 --> 00:42:13,364
And recognizing that even generationally.
YOLO: Yes.

965
00:42:13,364 --> 00:42:15,833
We have to, we have to be mindful

966
00:42:15,833 --> 00:42:19,303
of when we're bringing
these kind of interventions to our elders,

967
00:42:19,370 --> 00:42:22,339
recognizing that some of this stuff 
is gon’ churn up...

968
00:42:22,506 --> 00:42:23,173
YOLO: A lot.

969
00:42:23,240 --> 00:42:24,174
NATALIE: A lot.

970
00:42:24,174 --> 00:42:25,276
And are they in a place

971
00:42:25,276 --> 00:42:28,279
to do this aggressive
kind of thing that you're doing?

972
00:42:28,279 --> 00:42:29,446
Right.

973
00:42:29,446 --> 00:42:32,182
And so really being mindful of
of each of our boundaries,

974
00:42:32,182 --> 00:42:35,185
but also healer boundaries,
I think is so important.

975
00:42:35,185 --> 00:42:36,387
I love that.

976
00:42:36,387 --> 00:42:40,457
(music plays)

977
00:42:40,724 --> 00:42:42,126
Thinking about

978
00:42:42,126 --> 00:42:47,331
this episode and affirmation
to kind of summarize it, I'm curious about

979
00:42:47,565 --> 00:42:49,767
I have some things come to my head,
but I'm curious...

980
00:42:49,767 --> 00:42:51,569
Lead us, lead us, lead us.

981
00:42:51,569 --> 00:42:55,039
Because we've been talking about,
you know, this, the wellness industry,

982
00:42:55,039 --> 00:42:58,275
the mental health industrial complex
and all the nuances of it.

983
00:42:58,275 --> 00:42:59,910
Understanding that we still can find a lot

984
00:42:59,910 --> 00:43:03,814
of healing in it and find little pieces,
but also understand what to navigate it.

985
00:43:03,814 --> 00:43:08,085
I think something that you say
very often is

986
00:43:08,185 --> 00:43:12,089
let's find what is useful in this,

987
00:43:12,156 --> 00:43:14,458
not to throw all of it away.

988
00:43:14,458 --> 00:43:17,094
Right, because the systems are built.
And some of these systems

989
00:43:17,094 --> 00:43:18,562
trash, they got to go, right?

990
00:43:18,562 --> 00:43:21,265
But, some of them, they're imperfect.

991
00:43:21,265 --> 00:43:24,034
But if we get a screwdriver
and get some tape and we...

992
00:43:24,034 --> 00:43:27,338
and put this person, right?
Now, there's something here, right?

993
00:43:27,504 --> 00:43:31,008
I think about a building, every building
ain’t designed in a brilliant way.

994
00:43:31,008 --> 00:43:34,578
But you knock all these walls down, you
start adding the walls in the right place.

995
00:43:34,578 --> 00:43:36,246
You put that color and that light, honey.

996
00:43:36,246 --> 00:43:37,915
Now we got a vibe, right?

997
00:43:37,915 --> 00:43:40,951
And so how do we do that
with these systems, right?

998
00:43:40,951 --> 00:43:46,590
Some of them, there is value in them,
and some of them...whew! Got to go.

999
00:43:46,590 --> 00:43:51,061
We got to take this old building down
and start completely new.

1000
00:43:51,128 --> 00:43:55,199
But I think, you know, you remind me very,
very often what is useful here.

1001
00:43:55,399 --> 00:43:56,300
Yeah.

1002
00:43:56,300 --> 00:43:57,835
And also what is not.

1003
00:43:58,335 --> 00:44:00,037
Right. That we can keep
what is useful.

1004
00:44:00,037 --> 00:44:02,239
We can extract what is useful.

1005
00:44:02,239 --> 00:44:04,008
And everything that is does not serve us.

1006
00:44:04,008 --> 00:44:05,609
Let us let it go

1007
00:44:05,609 --> 00:44:08,879
And I think, you know, for me
that's sound like we gon' take

1008
00:44:08,879 --> 00:44:12,383
what’s useful
and if it ain't, let us let it go.

1009
00:44:12,483 --> 00:44:13,984
That's the affirmation.

1010
00:44:13,984 --> 00:44:16,220
The affirmation for me is...

1011
00:44:23,594 --> 00:44:28,198
that feels supportive, even in the murkiness.

1012
00:44:28,198 --> 00:44:29,433
We can have that.

1013
00:44:29,433 --> 00:44:32,369
And I want you to assess for yourselves
whoever listening

1014
00:44:32,369 --> 00:44:34,505
and watching

1015
00:44:34,505 --> 00:44:37,074
is the care that I'm
getting representative, that if it's not,

1016
00:44:37,074 --> 00:44:40,444
how do I get support for my loved ones,
my community,

1017
00:44:40,611 --> 00:44:42,413
to find the care that will do that?

1018
00:44:42,413 --> 00:44:45,416
Because you deserve it.
Because healing is our birthright.

1019
00:44:45,482 --> 00:44:47,418
Healing is our birthright.

1020
00:44:47,418 --> 00:44:49,720
And that is my affirmation.

1021
00:44:49,720 --> 00:44:50,587
I love it.

1022
00:44:50,587 --> 00:44:51,155
Thank you.

1023
00:44:51,155 --> 00:44:52,356
Thank you.

1024
00:44:52,356 --> 00:44:59,296
(music plays)

1025
00:44:59,630 --> 00:45:00,731
It’s ya girl, Natalie.

1026
00:45:00,731 --> 00:45:05,369
And back with you to share a tip
and a tool and a way to navigate

1027
00:45:05,469 --> 00:45:08,038
that might be helpful to you.
It's been really helpful to me.

1028
00:45:08,038 --> 00:45:12,076
I'm a fan of a good journal, right,
of writing in a notebook

1029
00:45:12,076 --> 00:45:12,943
and scribbling down.

1030
00:45:12,943 --> 00:45:15,312
And a tip that I have
for you is, have you ever tried to free write?

1031
00:45:16,013 --> 00:45:16,413
Right.

1032
00:45:16,413 --> 00:45:19,383
It's an opportunity
to set a timer for 5 minutes.

1033
00:45:19,383 --> 00:45:21,885
You got 5 minutes, boo. 5 minutes, right.

1034
00:45:21,885 --> 00:45:26,323
And just open your notebook
and just brain dump.

1035
00:45:26,390 --> 00:45:28,225
Whatever's on your heart,
whatever's on your spirit.

1036
00:45:28,225 --> 00:45:30,694
Don't judge yourself.
Don't make any rules.

1037
00:45:30,694 --> 00:45:32,529
If you can't spell it, it don't matter.

1038
00:45:32,529 --> 00:45:34,998
You write what you want to write
and dump it all out.

1039
00:45:34,998 --> 00:45:38,669
It's an opportunity to decompress
in a quick, short amount of time.

1040
00:45:38,736 --> 00:45:40,003
Don't judge yourself, though.

1041
00:45:40,003 --> 00:45:41,472
That's the tip.

1042
00:45:41,472 --> 00:45:42,606
Just write.

1043
00:45:42,606 --> 00:45:46,510
Just let go,
let loose and see what you discover.