Welcome to Alumni Live: The Podcast.

These are conversations with Grand Valley State University film and video

graduates about the industry, the film and video major and alumni profiles.

Welcome back to Alumni Live.

I'm Jeff Staub, a senior in Grand Valley's Film and Video Production program.

Joining us to talk about the Michigan Multimedia Jobs Act is Geoff George.

Geoff is an Education Outreach Chair for the Michigan Film Industry

Association and a talented Director of Photography from Detroit, Michigan.

Today we'll explore the legislation currently under consideration in both

the Michigan House and Senate, where it will soon undergo a crucial vote.

We'll learn about the far-reaching positive impacts of the bill, understand

its implication for current Michigan filmmakers, and learn some simple

ways that you can support this bill.

Hey Geoff, thanks for coming on the podcast.

Thanks so much for having me, Jeff, and thanks so much to everyone

Grand Valley for being such great partners in this effort that we're

trying to do here in the state.

So I know that you're from Detroit, Michigan and a U of M alumni.

When did you graduate and did the previous film incentive have any

positive implications in your career?

I grew up in Metro Detroit and I attended the University of

Michigan between 2004 and 2008.

And when I graduated in 2008, it was during the first Michigan

Film Incentive, which lasted from about 2008 to 2014 or 15.

And I was a perfect example of someone that was, a young person in

the state graduating from university with a really amazing incentive

program here in the state that was attracting productions to our doorstep.

So, I put my plans to move to Los Angeles, like many of us that were graduating

in film at that time were doing.

I put those plans on hold.

I decided to stay here in the state and start working in camera department

on film and TV productions and we had so many that were coming here and

they were large productions, small productions, medium sized productions.

And it was a pathway right away, right out of graduation to start working in

film that would have otherwise been quite a hurdle if I was living in Los Angeles.

So that program was really career changing for me, and now, at that time the previous

administration got rid of those credits.

There was a budget deficit in the state and some other issues with

the program itself because of the way that it was pushed through.

And now we have this amazing opportunity to start fresh, really refine this

program into something that can benefit Michigan people and Michigan vendors,

create Michigan jobs, and provide an amazing, incredible opportunity for

our young people graduating in the creative fields, not just film and TV,

but also because of the way that this new program is structured, but also

music production, post production, all of the related industries,

not to mention all of the vendors, caterers, hotels, equipment vendors

that would benefit from this as well.

I've been fortunate to work as a cinematographer, both in Michigan and

in Los Angeles throughout my career.

But we really love shooting in Michigan.

When we had productions coming here in the mid two thousands.

We had people buying homes and moving their families to the state of Michigan

because of our natural beauty, because of the West side of the state and the

amazing beaches, to the city centers in the southeast, and it's an amazing

location to shoot and to create film.

This is another opportunity for our students with this new incentive.

You said it so well, Michigan has it all.

It has the beaches, it has cities, and even up north, a lot of wooded areas, and

a lot of different landscapes that are perfect for filmmaking and photography.

I think those aspects really does make Michigan just naturally attractive.

When you were graduating from the U of M, you were brought on with below the

line jobs, and then kind of worked your way up from production to production,

made your connections, and made a name for yourself within the state.

Yeah.

There is no established framework for how to get into film.

This is the big challenge that everybody who's graduating in the

creative arts has in front of them when they're a student of film or

they want to get into this industry.

And basically like every opportunity in film, a door opened and I went through it.

I had just freshly graduated from the University of Michigan.

A film production was in town that had someone on the camera

team who was a U of M grad.

They reached out to the U of M film department and said, we need a

camera trainee and a PA-type person.

And is anybody interested in camera department?

Because that was my focus in film school was cinematography and

lighting, I was on the list of the few students who were interested in that.

And then basically I interviewed and got the job.

Once you work one movie like that and you do a good job and people like working

with you, regardless of your experience level, you get pulled into the loop.

Maybe you're starting as PA and then you work your way up to

the next position on the ladder.

That's a common way.

And that's the way that I got into this.

I worked as a Camera PA then I worked as an Assistant Cameraman.

Then I was a Camera Operator and now I'm a Cinematographer, but

it took years to build that up.

But basically that would happen again with this new film incentive program,

which is, it's called the Multimedia Jobs Act, and that's really what it's about.

It's about bringing money and productions into this state that wouldn't otherwise

be here, and provide amazing opportunities to our crew, and vendors, and all the

components of this massive film community, this army of people that's needed every

time that there's a film production.

I worked my way up through the camera department.

Everybody's journey is going to be different.

Mine was more traditional in that I worked my way up through the camera

department as an AC and eventually a Cinematographer, but there would be

opportunities in all the departments.

You have Art Department, Hair, Makeup, Sound.

You have the offices and the infrastructure that is supporting these

productions on a large scale that there would be, production office, PA jobs.

There would be set PA jobs, and that could lead to any number of departments.

I always tell people graduating in film or starting their careers in film, " Pick

a department that you're interested in and focus on that to get people

to hire you within that department," because we all want to be directors.

We all want to write our own movie one day and do great things, which is, a great

goal to have, but in the meantime, we have a job to do and we have bills to pay.

And as artists and filmmakers, you have to find a way to stay consistently working.

And with the film incentive program in the state, there's going to be

enough of a quantity of quality productions in the state, that you'll

be able to continue working within a department and make a career out of it.

And you don't need to go to one of the coasts or to Chicago.

If you want to stay close to home and raise a family here, the

cost of living is a lot lower.

The quality of life is a lot higher.

The only thing we're missing is the job opportunity.

This film incentive provides that job opportunity, the infrastructure that will

need to be here to support those jobs.

And you'll be able to follow your career path with an incentive like this in place.

That was fantastic advice for the young filmmakers listening.

I know personally, the people within my circle have large goals

and a vision for the future.

And you do have to pick up jobs that help support yourself and pay the

bills and one thing with this act that after doing some research, is it's

supportive of advertising and commercial projects, the types of projects that

keep you afloat and keep you working towards those long term goals.

There's 37 other states with film incentives and some do have advertising

and commercial benefits and incentives, but this one in particular is ahead

of the game with, their incentives.

It is absolutely.

And it's a really good point.

I'm glad you brought it up.

That number has already changed.

It's 41 other states that have some kind of media incentive.

Missouri was just added to the list.

We're way behind as far as being on par with other States

that are open to this industry.

And you're correct.

One unique thing about this bill is that it's not just for TV and film,

it includes a short form component that would allow short films, music

videos, commercials, corporate videos, industrial videos, all to qualify

through this tax credit program.

So, you would have not just the large TV productions coming in and the

Netflix movies and things like that, but you would really have the bread and

butter of what keeps people like me.

That are, crew people and vendors, actively working, which is the

short form commercial content, the corporate content, and the industrial.

We have a large manufacturing base in the state of Michigan and they

all need training videos and a lot of people don't consider that as

part of these film incentives because Hollywood and all of that takes a

lot of the limelight as it were.

But really, the more everyday jobs in this industry are for commercial,

industrial, and corporate type work.

Because of this component being in this incentive, you would see a huge

increase in that amount of productions.

You would have local companies and corporations taking advantage of that.

They would be incentivized to hire locally because they would only qualify

for the credit if they hire locally.

Importantly, it's a tax credit.

They're not getting a blank check.

It's a program that's been successful in other states, which is that they

get a tax credit, which they can use against their Michigan tax liability.

And it doesn't really matter for those of us in crew and students graduating.

But importantly, the money that, is being given on the credit

is staying within the state.

It's not coming out of taxpayers dollars and it's not a check being written

to a Hollywood production company.

It's basically a job creation program.

And because of these lower thresholds and the short form component, you would

have a lot of these smaller shoots that are the bread and butter of our

industry that really are what keep us consistently working throughout the year.

You would have a big increase in that as well.

Jumping back to the previous film incentive I heard about

vendors and sound stages that established themselves in the state.

Do you see some, permanent residences for these studios in the near

future with this bill passing?

Absolutely.

Yeah.

If this bill passes, inevitably, you would need the

infrastructure here to support it.

So it would probably take a little bit of time to get up and running, but you would

definitely be seeing sound stages open.

You would perhaps be seeing Los Angeles and New York based production

companies opening offices here.

And importantly, we're anticipating that there would be 300 to 500

million dollars in direct spend in the first year alone of this act.

That would be money coming into the state that wouldn't otherwise be spent here.

And it would be a mix of these large studio productions, but

importantly, also a lot of this commercial and industrial work.

So yeah, you would definitely see some permanent studios opening.

Which again is a lot more job opportunities for

people working those stages.

And you would probably see things that you wouldn't even consider,

like, back when we had the old film incentive, we had the stage in Pontiac.

They were building sets for Oz and there was a local lumber supplier who had to

grow their business by 200 percent and buy new property and open a new lumber yard

just to supply productions of these size that were coming in and building sets.

It's not just the sound people and the camera guys and all of this, it's

the local coffee shop that was opened by a mother, daughter, those kinds of

stories that all of a sudden they're getting a flood of crew that's coming

in and buying coffee because they're staying or filming across the street.

So, trickles down in other ways that you don't consider.

I think you would probably see a lot of people moving back to

Michigan that left at one time for Atlanta, or Los Angeles, or New York.

And you would probably see some of those people that grew up or have worked many

years in their career there that are looking to move somewhere with an easier

lifestyle, higher quality of life.

And you would see some of them moving to the state.

All of this sounds super fantastic, big Hollywood budgets coming in

industrial commercial work coming in.

Getting down to like the specifics of some of these qualifications.

You have a minimum spend of 300,000 dollars for 20 minute or longer

projects, so that can include independent shorts, feature length

films, films that don't require that Hollywood studio to support it.

I think that you can get some really unique perspectives from

the state and from the creative people who will move back.

And you also have the minimum spend of 50,000 dollars per

project for under 20 minutes.

So that can support the same thing with short form content, short films,

really getting that perspective of the Michigander out into the public.

Yeah, you're absolutely right.

This is a great point because the program was structured in such a way that we don't

necessarily want a giant movie coming in and using the entire budget that's

allocated for this on one production.

We want a variety of different sizes of productions.

And in particular, looking for those small, medium, and

medium large size productions.

They provide jobs for all of us that are already fortunate enough

to be working in this business.

So the experienced crew that's been doing it for 10, 15, 20 years, and there'll be

productions that'll hire those people.

And then you have these smaller productions, when you're talking

about a feature film, that's a 300-750,000 dollar budget, that's

an extremely small indie movie.

That is exactly the kind of project that people just graduating from Grand Valley

or other universities in the state are going to get jobs on because, for one

thing, the larger productions are going to take some of the more experienced

crew, and these smaller productions are going to have openings and opportunities

for people just starting their careers.

That was a key component of this that makes it really different from the

last time around and allows independent productions, short films, music videos

to be a part of this new incentive program and the excitement and the

jobs that will be generated through it.

That's where our opportunities are for young people in this state, are on

these medium and small productions when they're just graduating from school.

We want to make sure that that's part of this program and that those

productions are coming here too.

You'll probably see a lot of homegrown filmmakers, raising through friends and

family and donors, 3 to 500, 000 to do an indie feature or, you might see people

raising 50 or 60,000 to do a short film or a short documentary about their hometown.

We have a lot of great film festivals in this state as well.

Traverse City, Fresh Coast, and other ones.

This is the kind of homegrown community that we're trying to nurture here.

And not just the big names and the big productions.

This episode is brought to you by the Chuck Peterson Memorial fellowship.

The fellowship was established by Chuck Peterson's family and friends to assist

the upper-level students in the film and video program at GVSU who were working

on creative projects that support the nonprofit sector in their community.

Kyle Macciome, the 2020 recipient, of that fellowship describes the

benefits of the support he received

When going through this fellowship, there are three separate parts

of yourself that I think get to experience a lot of development.

The first is as a student, because this is a learning process.

You get to learn how to work with a client on your own independently,

out in the world, away from the classroom, like you would in

something like producing for clients.

And the second one would be as a video maker, as a video producer, as someone

who has respect for the work that they're doing and wants to improve on

themselves and produce a final product that can be used out in the real world.

And then the third one would be as a citizen.

You know, you're not making video for an entertainment value or for some

kind of commercial purpose, it's for a non-profit it's for a direct benefit in

your community and being a citizen of that community, understanding how you

can directly impact and improve it, um, is a really valuable experience that

I think the fellowship teaches you to be as, as a student, as a filmmaker

and as a citizen, all three of those things are directly a part of this

process that you get to learn and ask yourself, how do I want to be seen?

And how do I want to act as these three roles?

for more information and to donate to the scholarship, visit the link in

the description now back to the show.

So it's my understanding that this bill is currently going

through the House and the Senate.

Do you have a date when they'll vote on the bill?

And if it is passed, when will it come into action?

Currently the bill has been introduced in the House and Senate, both.

The bill is a two part bill in each chamber and right now they're going

through the various committees that look at all the bills together and

they bring them up for a hearing.

So right now it's in committee and we have a hearing coming up at the end of October.

That's tentatively scheduled for the 31st.

We'll need a big showing in Lansing to show how much support and excitement

there is behind this bill when we do have that hearing date right now

it's looking like the end of October, but basically they bring it up for

hearing and then they go on and vote.

For it within their respective chambers, and then it goes to

the governor to get signed.

The goal is that this is all happening before the end of the year, and if

it does happen before the end of the year would be part of essentially

next year's budget, and it would take place immediately next year.

So right now is really the finish line for us in some

ways, but we're not over it yet.

This has been an effort that MiFIA in general has been spearheading

for the last 2 years, and even a little longer prior to that.

This is when it's in the hands of the legislators.

MiFIA has supported this bill throughout and is doing some of the organizing

and meetings with legislators and advocating on behalf of filmmakers

and crew and vendors in the state, but it's in the legislators hands and

that's why we need people, if they support this new program, write your

legislators, join MIFIA, and help us out.

On volunteer side, we have events coming up.

We have other things that after this bill is passed, we're going

to need to continue to function to assist filmmakers with this program.

There's a special, student membership rate to join MiFIA.

I think it's 25 bucks or so.

It's a great way to stay informed and stay in the loop on what's happening

in the film industry in our state.

Write your legislators.

Cause now's the time.

On MiFIA's website under action, it's super easy to send out an

email to your local representative.

You fill in your address and they automatically find your representative,

draft the email for you with a customized message supporting the bill.

I've sent one, I've sent actually two now, because today I got

another email about taking action.

It took me five minutes.

Yeah.

Thanks for mentioning that.

And thanks for writing too.

The legislators need to hear from their constituents to see how much

excitement there is behind a bill.

This is a great tool on our website.

It's mifia.org/take-action.

Just like Jeff said, you can fill out your address and information

automatically, drafts an email.

You can share your story.

It can just be a couple of sentences or you can write a page if you

want, but it automatically drafts an email to your local representatives.

There's one form for the house.

There's another form for the Senate.

So make sure you follow through on both because the bills, as I said,

are introduced in both chambers.

So yeah, we try to make it really easy for people to reach their representatives.

That's a great way to do it on the website, sign up.

Become a MiFIA member and sign up for a mailing list to stay updated

on when these hearing dates are going to happen, because that's the next

big step for us is making our voices heard at the Capitol in Lansing.

We've had a lot of really great events already.

There was one in Grand Rapids, Traverse City, Metro Detroit, and I'm

sure there'll be some planned in the future that everyone can take part in.

Check out the MiFIA.org website because that's the best way right now

to get a hold of your legislators.

As you've been bringing this bill to Michigan filmmakers, you've been doing

a lot of outreach with the community.

What challenges have you faced in bringing this to the public?

So non-filmmakers, making them aware of the positive impacts and really getting

them on the same page as filmmakers.

Filmmakers are definitely aware of all the benefits that film productions and

having creative industries in the state bring, but people that aren't in our

industry, it's not their fault, it's a difficult industry to understand at times.

The jobs in our industry are multi week jobs that are not year long salary jobs.

So you're working many different productions for many

different production companies.

And then of course, as we mentioned earlier, you have all the caterers,

the vendors, the hotels, and other.

Aspects that aren't directly related to film, but that benefit from these

productions being around their local area.

Some of the challenges have been just educating people on what

it means when there is a film incentive in a state and what that

kind of local spending looks like.

The other one that we've had a challenge with is that the old program, because

it was coming out of the recession in 2008, and it was a program that was

meant to really jumpstart jobs, there was some shortcomings of that incentive.

It was perceived as a bit of a handout to Hollywood and this is definitely not that.

This is keeping tax dollars in the state.

This is bringing extra money into the state that wouldn't otherwise be spent

and there's no money leaving the state.

We're not writing checks to Warner brothers on this one.

Unfortunately, as beneficial as that last incentive was for people like me

that were working crew on all of these incredible projects, the state itself

had a bad experience, and it's been a little bit of a hurdle to educate

people and let them know that this incentive program is very different.

It's based on the success of other states like New Mexico and Atlanta.

It just takes time to let people know what's in the new bill and how it benefits

Michigan people, and that it's not the handout that the last program was.

I'll just say, we can talk all day about the bill, but when I was graduating

from the University of Michigan in 2008, with the prospect of potentially

leaving everything that I knew behind, starting a new life in a very expensive

market like Los Angeles with no connections, it was pretty daunting.

And if that film incentive had not been in place, I would have not had

nearly the same opportunity that I did in 2008 when I decided to stay in

Michigan and pursue a film career here.

In Los Angeles, it would have taken me many more years to make the connections

that I did and to get onto productions that I did right out of college.

That's what I'm the most excited about.

I was in the shoes of the freshly graduated film student with a

big question mark in front of me.

And when that film incentive happened, it was bringing

everything right to our doorstep.

It certainly abbreviated the amount of time that I needed to work my

way into this industry, which at times can be hard to work into.

So that's what I'm excited about.

If this film incentive program is in our state, people that are going to

our colleges and universities have some kind of avenue to get into this

industry in an entry level way, in a way that brings them a lot of experience

right here in their own backyard, where they don't have to make a major

career move and a major move across the country that costs 10-20,000 dollars.

You can stay here and start your career here.

Build it up here and we're going to have the same jobs that they have

in Los Angeles with this incentive.

It's going to be the same type of work you'd be doing in another market, but it's

going to be right here in your backyard.

If you've listened to some of the other podcast episodes, you've heard from

Grand Valley alumni who have moved to Los Angeles, to Atlanta, to New York City,

and they've talked about the challenges breaking into the industry, and the

challenges moving with the cost of living, with rent, finding an apartment,

it's difficult, it's really difficult.

But staying in Michigan with the same opportunities, it could happen.

I agree.

it's not easy to move across the country, put a down payment on a

new apartment in a really expensive city and an expensive market.

And then, get into a whole new community out there.

There's nothing wrong with going to these places and pursuing your career.

But Michigan, at the very least, would be very competitive

against these other markets.

And if I was a young graduate with this program in place in the state that I

went to school in or grew up in, it would certainly make me reevaluate whether

moving to Los Angeles would be worth it.

If it's going to be the same types of productions and opportunities here, and

I'm already, as a film student, in the loop on your peer group of film community,

and, that's how you grow in this industry.

There's always opportunities to reach higher and work with people with more

experience and big directors and so forth.

But the more day to day jobs in the film industry are with your peers

and colleagues that you went to film school with, that you made a short

film with, that you made a music video with, and you're growing together.

And this would allow you guys to grow together, right here in the state.

So, I'm a Michigander, and I was born and raised here.

I know that the state itself has not been growing recently in population size.

How will this bill in particular help keep young people in Michigan, and what

will that do for the state as a whole?

I was just looking the other day.

There's been a couple of studies recently on the numbers of young

people that leave our state.

I think it's something like, 25 percent of people between 18 and 29 in general leave

the state, and of our college graduates in the creative fields, it's much higher.

It's something like 60 percent that leave for other opportunities.

This would make us competitive again in these areas.

They're not leaving because they don't like it here.

Everyone that leaves this state either grew up in Michigan or went to

school here, and they love and see the potential behind this amazing state.

They're leaving because there's opportunities elsewhere.

That's why we're one of nine states in this country that

doesn't have a media incentive.

They're going to everywhere else.

So, we really have to stem the brain drain in this state.

This is our future.

The ingenuity and the strength of our young people are the future of this state,

and this gives them another reason to stay beyond just my family's here and

it's a beautiful state and it's a great place to have a great quality of life.

Now, you can also have all that and do your job here.

There are creative opportunities in this state right now, but

they're limited and this would certainly be unlimited opportunity.

It would be an overnight game changer, basically.

Ideally, people in these creative industries and again, not just

TV and film, but marketing, communications, you're going

to be seeing virtual production become a big part of our industry.

You need computer engineers, you need computer scientists, software developers.

This is all under the umbrella of multimedia.

And those are the jobs of the future.

Wow, that was very well said, and I'm sure that touched a lot of

young people listening right now.

So Jeff, you're based in Detroit, is that right?

Yeah.

What are the opportunities like in Detroit right now, and how

would that change with this bill?

Is Detroit a large enough market to support a filmmaker?

And how does that compare to markets like Grand Rapids or Traverse City?

The state of Michigan has two main film markets right now.

One is focused in Grand Rapids and the industries and companies

around the Grand Rapids area.

And the other is in Southeast Michigan around Metro Detroit.

There are opportunities in film currently without an incentive in the state.

Michigan has always been a strong producer of commercials.

So you have the automobile industry here.

You have Amway and other industries that produce a lot of television commercials

and online, social media content, things like that for those big companies.

So Detroit has historically always had a very strong commercial

industry, and there are opportunities to work in commercial filmmaking,

in both Detroit and Grand Rapids.

Detroit and maybe not so much Grand Rapids, but occasionally Grand Rapids,

but the state in general does get one or two large narrative productions

per year that come in for a specific reason, because scenes take place

here, or they need footage of Holland, Michigan, or they want to film "Beverly

Hills Cop 4" in downtown Detroit.

And they usually do a majority of their filming outside of the state and then

come into the state just for what they need, because there is no incentive here.

For them to do their whole production in this state, because 20 percent of

the scenes take place in Michigan or Detroit or Grand Rapids, it doesn't

make sense from a financial standpoint.

So they come for a very limited amount of time to get only the

shots and scenes that they need with our state, and then they leave.

You would see two things happen with this new incentive.

The first thing that would happen is you would get major film productions

coming to each of these markets.

So you'd see a lot in Detroit area.

You'd see a lot in Grand Rapids.

You have a handful going up to Traverse City and some of our

beaches and things like that.

And then you would have the commercial industry, which

is already very strong here.

That would be increased even more and become very robust.

And basically we would be one of the major commercial producing

markets in the United States.

It would strengthen our existing commercial industry and it would bring

many more large narrative projects to both of these markets that wouldn't otherwise

be here, that normally, they have 20 percent of their scenes taking place

in Michigan, with a film incentive in place, they might say, "okay, well, let's

just do the whole shoot in Michigan."

And even for the handful of scenes that don't take place in Michigan, we'll

make the airport look like somewhere else And then you would have, many more

commercial productions coming as well.

For filmmakers who don't know the reach of commercial projects, what

are some examples of commercial projects that you've worked on?

I've done a lot of work for the automobile industry.

I've shot Chevy, I've shot Cadillac and Mustang, and all

of the associated car brands.

I've worked a lot for Grand Rapids companies, Merrill.

During my career in Los Angeles, I was working for Under Armor, for Nike.

It was many, many different brands.

And it was not just major TV commercials either.

A lot of these productions, they put the same amount of resources

and time into projects that go to smaller screens as well.

So you have a lot of social media content.

That's what you would see with the film incentive in place, you'd get

not just the Michigan companies and the ones related to the auto industry.

They would certainly be taking advantage of it.

But you might see Under Armour and Nike and those kinds of companies coming in

and doing commercial work here as well.

Geoff, thank you so much for joining us on the Alumni Live podcast.

I'm sure that we're all eager to witness the positive impacts of this bill.

For those of us listening, make sure to reach out to your local representatives,

vocalize your support, and just contribute to this revolutionary

change in Michigan's film industry.

Again, thank you for joining, Geoff.

Do you have any closing statements you'd like to say?

Thank you so much for having me on.

And I really appreciate the opportunity to share with your listeners about

the Multimedia Jobs Act and MiFIA.

We want to see the film industry grow in this state.

Our young people are our future.

We need your talents and we need you guys here to be doing awesome

stuff in this state in film.

Thank you for joining us for this episode of Alumni Live: The Podcast.

Subscribe to our podcast, to hear more from our alumni across the industry.

Check out Alumni Live on Facebook, Instagram, and YouTube.

For more conversations and networking.

Let us know what topics you want to hear our alumni talk about the

Grand Valley State University Film Video Alumni Network is here for

you, and we're glad that you're here.

Thank you for listening.