1 00:00:03,190 --> 00:00:06,129 INTRODUCTION: Welcome to the NSPCC Learning Podcast, where 2 00:00:06,130 --> 00:00:08,409 INTRODUCTION: we share learning and expertise in child 3 00:00:08,410 --> 00:00:10,869 INTRODUCTION: protection from inside and outside of the 4 00:00:10,870 --> 00:00:12,339 INTRODUCTION: organisation. 5 00:00:12,340 --> 00:00:15,249 INTRODUCTION: We aim to create debate, encourage reflection 6 00:00:15,250 --> 00:00:17,379 INTRODUCTION: and share good practice on how we can all 7 00:00:17,380 --> 00:00:20,379 INTRODUCTION: work together to keep babies, children and 8 00:00:20,380 --> 00:00:21,380 INTRODUCTION: young people safe. 9 00:00:24,470 --> 00:00:26,119 GEORGE LINFIELD (PRODUCER): Welcome to the NSPCC Learning 10 00:00:26,120 --> 00:00:28,159 GEORGE LINFIELD (PRODUCER): Podcast. Today's two-part 11 00:00:28,160 --> 00:00:29,659 GEORGE LINFIELD (PRODUCER): episode is all about early 12 00:00:29,660 --> 00:00:31,219 GEORGE LINFIELD (PRODUCER): intervention and supporting new 13 00:00:31,220 --> 00:00:32,929 GEORGE LINFIELD (PRODUCER): parents through adversity, to 14 00:00:32,930 --> 00:00:34,219 GEORGE LINFIELD (PRODUCER): ensure the best outcomes for 15 00:00:34,220 --> 00:00:35,839 GEORGE LINFIELD (PRODUCER): them and their child. 16 00:00:35,840 --> 00:00:37,339 GEORGE LINFIELD (PRODUCER): You're going to hear a conversation between 17 00:00:37,340 --> 00:00:39,469 GEORGE LINFIELD (PRODUCER): Colin Smy and Ged Docherty. 18 00:00:39,470 --> 00:00:40,811 GEORGE LINFIELD (PRODUCER): Colin works at the NSPCC's 19 00:00:40,812 --> 00:00:43,429 GEORGE LINFIELD (PRODUCER): Blackpool Better Start Service. 20 00:00:43,430 --> 00:00:44,749 GEORGE LINFIELD (PRODUCER): Blackpool Better Start is a 21 00:00:44,750 --> 00:00:46,429 GEORGE LINFIELD (PRODUCER): 10-year national lottery funded 22 00:00:46,430 --> 00:00:48,229 GEORGE LINFIELD (PRODUCER): programme to transform services 23 00:00:48,230 --> 00:00:49,579 GEORGE LINFIELD (PRODUCER): in the town and change 24 00:00:49,580 --> 00:00:51,349 GEORGE LINFIELD (PRODUCER): childhoods through lived experience, 25 00:00:51,350 --> 00:00:53,179 GEORGE LINFIELD (PRODUCER): science and evidence. 26 00:00:53,180 --> 00:00:54,829 GEORGE LINFIELD (PRODUCER): Ged Docherty is a Team Manager 27 00:00:54,830 --> 00:00:56,269 GEORGE LINFIELD (PRODUCER): at one of Blackpool Better Start's 28 00:00:56,270 --> 00:00:58,429 GEORGE LINFIELD (PRODUCER): 40 funded services, For Baby's 29 00:00:58,430 --> 00:01:00,379 GEORGE LINFIELD (PRODUCER): Sake. For Baby's Sake is a 30 00:01:00,380 --> 00:01:02,059 GEORGE LINFIELD (PRODUCER): programme for expectant parents 31 00:01:02,060 --> 00:01:03,889 GEORGE LINFIELD (PRODUCER): that takes a whole family approach, 32 00:01:03,890 --> 00:01:05,208 GEORGE LINFIELD (PRODUCER): starting in pregnancy and 33 00:01:05,209 --> 00:01:06,499 GEORGE LINFIELD (PRODUCER): dealing with the entire cycle 34 00:01:06,500 --> 00:01:08,329 GEORGE LINFIELD (PRODUCER): and history of domestic abuse, 35 00:01:08,330 --> 00:01:09,709 GEORGE LINFIELD (PRODUCER): identifying and directly 36 00:01:09,710 --> 00:01:11,389 GEORGE LINFIELD (PRODUCER): addressing the trauma or traumas 37 00:01:11,390 --> 00:01:13,729 GEORGE LINFIELD (PRODUCER): that lie at the heart of the problem. 38 00:01:13,730 --> 00:01:15,139 GEORGE LINFIELD (PRODUCER): Colin and Ged's conversation, 39 00:01:15,140 --> 00:01:17,659 GEORGE LINFIELD (PRODUCER): recorded in September 2023, 40 00:01:17,660 --> 00:01:18,979 GEORGE LINFIELD (PRODUCER): will cover the importance of 41 00:01:18,980 --> 00:01:20,779 GEORGE LINFIELD (PRODUCER): the first 1001 days of a 42 00:01:20,780 --> 00:01:22,438 GEORGE LINFIELD (PRODUCER): child's life and how For Baby's 43 00:01:22,439 --> 00:01:24,319 GEORGE LINFIELD (PRODUCER): Sake uses therapeutic, 44 00:01:24,320 --> 00:01:26,239 GEORGE LINFIELD (PRODUCER): trauma-informed and strengths-based 45 00:01:26,240 --> 00:01:27,829 GEORGE LINFIELD (PRODUCER): approaches to support parents 46 00:01:27,830 --> 00:01:29,239 GEORGE LINFIELD (PRODUCER): going through adversity during 47 00:01:29,240 --> 00:01:30,799 GEORGE LINFIELD (PRODUCER): the early years. 48 00:01:30,800 --> 00:01:32,149 GEORGE LINFIELD (PRODUCER): Whilst the discussion focuses 49 00:01:32,150 --> 00:01:33,799 GEORGE LINFIELD (PRODUCER): on the early years, the techniques 50 00:01:33,800 --> 00:01:35,419 GEORGE LINFIELD (PRODUCER): that Ged mentions in this podcast 51 00:01:35,420 --> 00:01:36,799 GEORGE LINFIELD (PRODUCER): should be useful inspiration 52 00:01:36,800 --> 00:01:38,089 GEORGE LINFIELD (PRODUCER): for professionals working with 53 00:01:38,090 --> 00:01:39,769 GEORGE LINFIELD (PRODUCER): families at any stage of the 54 00:01:39,770 --> 00:01:40,770 GEORGE LINFIELD (PRODUCER): parental journey. 55 00:01:41,840 --> 00:01:43,309 GEORGE LINFIELD (PRODUCER): The discussion will be interspersed 56 00:01:43,310 --> 00:01:44,689 GEORGE LINFIELD (PRODUCER): with clips from an interview we 57 00:01:44,690 --> 00:01:46,009 GEORGE LINFIELD (PRODUCER): filmed earlier this year with 58 00:01:46,010 --> 00:01:47,899 GEORGE LINFIELD (PRODUCER): Jake and Charlotte, two parents 59 00:01:47,900 --> 00:01:49,279 GEORGE LINFIELD (PRODUCER): who are participating in the 60 00:01:49,280 --> 00:01:51,289 GEORGE LINFIELD (PRODUCER): For Baby's Sake programme. 61 00:01:51,290 --> 00:01:52,579 GEORGE LINFIELD (PRODUCER): Jake and Charlotte are parents 62 00:01:52,580 --> 00:01:54,349 GEORGE LINFIELD (PRODUCER): to a little girl, Isabella, who 63 00:01:54,350 --> 00:01:55,609 GEORGE LINFIELD (PRODUCER): you may hear playing and babbling 64 00:01:55,610 --> 00:01:57,949 GEORGE LINFIELD (PRODUCER): in the background of the recordings. 65 00:01:57,950 --> 00:01:59,509 GEORGE LINFIELD (PRODUCER): The couple faced adversity when 66 00:01:59,510 --> 00:02:01,669 GEORGE LINFIELD (PRODUCER): Charlotte was pregnant with Isabella — Jake 67 00:02:01,670 --> 00:02:03,589 GEORGE LINFIELD (PRODUCER): was in prison for domestic abuse 68 00:02:03,590 --> 00:02:04,939 GEORGE LINFIELD (PRODUCER): — but For Baby's Sake worked with 69 00:02:04,940 --> 00:02:06,829 GEORGE LINFIELD (PRODUCER): them to overcome these challenges, 70 00:02:06,830 --> 00:02:08,538 GEORGE LINFIELD (PRODUCER): better handle complex emotions 71 00:02:08,539 --> 00:02:10,159 GEORGE LINFIELD (PRODUCER): and form trusting relationships 72 00:02:10,160 --> 00:02:11,599 GEORGE LINFIELD (PRODUCER): in order to best care for baby 73 00:02:11,600 --> 00:02:13,369 GEORGE LINFIELD (PRODUCER): Isabella. As part of the 74 00:02:13,370 --> 00:02:14,869 GEORGE LINFIELD (PRODUCER): programme, Jake and Charlotte each 75 00:02:14,870 --> 00:02:16,789 GEORGE LINFIELD (PRODUCER): have a therapeutic practitioner, 76 00:02:16,790 --> 00:02:18,409 GEORGE LINFIELD (PRODUCER): Owen and Karen, who you will 77 00:02:18,410 --> 00:02:19,819 GEORGE LINFIELD (PRODUCER): also hear talking in these 78 00:02:19,820 --> 00:02:21,979 GEORGE LINFIELD (PRODUCER): clips. In the first clip, Jake 79 00:02:21,980 --> 00:02:23,419 GEORGE LINFIELD (PRODUCER): and Charlotte explain how they came 80 00:02:23,420 --> 00:02:25,759 GEORGE LINFIELD (PRODUCER): to work with For Baby's Sake. 81 00:02:25,760 --> 00:02:27,749 OWEN: So Jake, what were your expectations of working with 82 00:02:27,750 --> 00:02:27,753 OWEN: For Baby's Sake? 83 00:02:27,754 --> 00:02:30,859 JAKE: Um, well, obviously, 84 00:02:30,860 --> 00:02:34,099 JAKE: as you know, at the time I was in custody when 85 00:02:34,100 --> 00:02:36,164 JAKE: the referral went in, and Isabella wasn't born yet. 86 00:02:37,250 --> 00:02:39,679 JAKE: I was struggling with building a healthy relationship 87 00:02:39,680 --> 00:02:43,429 JAKE: with, obviously, with my daughter and 88 00:02:43,430 --> 00:02:45,559 JAKE: my partner Charlotte. 89 00:02:45,560 --> 00:02:48,619 JAKE: And you know, so I was 90 00:02:48,620 --> 00:02:51,679 JAKE: just expecting for just help to try and, you 91 00:02:51,680 --> 00:02:55,909 JAKE: know, help me understand my emotions and understand 92 00:02:55,910 --> 00:02:59,029 JAKE: how to be a dad, you know, and how to make those 93 00:02:59,030 --> 00:02:59,745 JAKE: relationships work. 94 00:02:59,746 --> 00:03:01,873 OWEN: Brilliant. And how have you found the service of far 95 00:03:01,874 --> 00:03:02,809 OWEN: then? 96 00:03:02,810 --> 00:03:05,479 JAKE: Really good. I mean, as I touched on a minute ago, 97 00:03:05,480 --> 00:03:07,999 JAKE: obviously you yourself came to see me while I was in 98 00:03:08,000 --> 00:03:10,609 JAKE: custody. We did a bit of work then, and then 99 00:03:10,610 --> 00:03:12,341 JAKE: everything carried on after release as well. 100 00:03:12,342 --> 00:03:15,141 JAKE: I was expecting maybe a bit of time, like, to get 101 00:03:15,142 --> 00:03:17,989 JAKE: things sorted out, but it was seamless and then, you 102 00:03:17,990 --> 00:03:20,450 JAKE: know, I continue obviously to work together today, 103 00:03:21,530 --> 00:03:22,519 JAKE: which is great. 104 00:03:22,520 --> 00:03:24,589 KAREN: So what was the experience like for you, Charlotte? 105 00:03:24,590 --> 00:03:25,946 KAREN: We've just heard from Jake. What was the experience 106 00:03:25,947 --> 00:03:26,947 KAREN: like for you? 107 00:03:27,830 --> 00:03:30,829 CHARLOTTE: Well, it made me feel like I could speak 108 00:03:30,830 --> 00:03:33,919 CHARLOTTE: about things that were bothering me in a safe 109 00:03:33,920 --> 00:03:37,159 CHARLOTTE: space and that 110 00:03:37,160 --> 00:03:40,339 CHARLOTTE: it would teach us to be able to do that 111 00:03:40,340 --> 00:03:43,399 CHARLOTTE: on our own in the future rather than with 112 00:03:43,400 --> 00:03:45,243 CHARLOTTE: you two next to us. And it just gives us that 113 00:03:47,450 --> 00:03:48,949 CHARLOTTE: — I don't really use the word lesson — but it 114 00:03:48,950 --> 00:03:51,590 CHARLOTTE: just helps us be able to 115 00:03:54,050 --> 00:03:55,079 CHARLOTTE: learn how to do that on our own and it 116 00:03:57,370 --> 00:04:00,759 CHARLOTTE: will benefit us in the future because 117 00:04:00,760 --> 00:04:02,559 CHARLOTTE: that's something that we can use constantly 118 00:04:04,150 --> 00:04:06,825 CHARLOTTE: around Isabella or, like I said, without you 119 00:04:06,826 --> 00:04:07,826 CHARLOTTE: there. 120 00:04:13,480 --> 00:04:14,809 COLIN SMY: Welcome, everybody. 121 00:04:14,810 --> 00:04:17,588 COLIN SMY: We're here talking about supporting parents 122 00:04:17,589 --> 00:04:20,319 COLIN SMY: today. My name is Colin Smy and I'm a 123 00:04:20,320 --> 00:04:23,259 COLIN SMY: Development Manager at Blackpool Better Start. 124 00:04:23,260 --> 00:04:25,149 COLIN SMY: Blackpool Better Start is a ten-year lottery 125 00:04:25,150 --> 00:04:28,599 COLIN SMY: funded programme. We're working with families 126 00:04:28,600 --> 00:04:31,569 COLIN SMY: in deprived areas from pregnancy to age 127 00:04:31,570 --> 00:04:34,209 COLIN SMY: four and we're trying to identify the 128 00:04:34,210 --> 00:04:36,339 COLIN SMY: opportunities for them to improve their life 129 00:04:36,340 --> 00:04:39,159 COLIN SMY: chances across a range of things, including 130 00:04:39,160 --> 00:04:43,359 COLIN SMY: health, diet, nutrition, school readiness, 131 00:04:43,360 --> 00:04:46,089 COLIN SMY: social emotional wellbeing and healthy gestation 132 00:04:46,090 --> 00:04:48,189 COLIN SMY: in birth and pregnancy. 133 00:04:48,190 --> 00:04:51,071 COLIN SMY: With me today is Ged Docherty. 134 00:04:51,072 --> 00:04:52,185 COLIN SMY: Would you like to introduce yourself, Ged. 135 00:04:52,630 --> 00:04:53,827 GED DOCHERTY: Afternoon, everyone. My name's Ged Docherty 136 00:04:55,690 --> 00:04:58,319 GED DOCHERTY: and I'm the Team Manager of the Blackpool 137 00:04:59,440 --> 00:05:00,440 GED DOCHERTY: For Baby's Sake team. 138 00:05:01,600 --> 00:05:04,869 GED DOCHERTY: We are a specialist 139 00:05:04,870 --> 00:05:07,899 GED DOCHERTY: thematic team who work in 140 00:05:07,900 --> 00:05:11,079 GED DOCHERTY: a trauma-informed, empathic 141 00:05:11,080 --> 00:05:14,319 GED DOCHERTY: way with pregnant couples 142 00:05:14,320 --> 00:05:17,379 GED DOCHERTY: who are experiencing domestic violence, 143 00:05:17,380 --> 00:05:20,439 GED DOCHERTY: either currently or in the past, in 144 00:05:20,440 --> 00:05:21,969 GED DOCHERTY: their relationship. 145 00:05:21,970 --> 00:05:25,239 GED DOCHERTY: We offer a unique approach 146 00:05:25,240 --> 00:05:28,419 GED DOCHERTY: into how we work 147 00:05:28,420 --> 00:05:31,389 GED DOCHERTY: with those co-parents in that 148 00:05:31,390 --> 00:05:34,269 GED DOCHERTY: mum gets a worker and dad gets a worker. 149 00:05:34,270 --> 00:05:37,449 GED DOCHERTY: And we follow a specific 150 00:05:37,450 --> 00:05:40,839 GED DOCHERTY: evidence-based programme approach 151 00:05:40,840 --> 00:05:44,679 GED DOCHERTY: to the work. We start in pregnancy 152 00:05:44,680 --> 00:05:46,424 GED DOCHERTY: around viable pregnancy time, so 153 00:05:47,800 --> 00:05:50,859 GED DOCHERTY: 15 weeks onwards, and we can 154 00:05:50,860 --> 00:05:53,807 GED DOCHERTY: remain working with that family with their 155 00:05:53,808 --> 00:05:56,949 GED DOCHERTY: consent until the child's second 156 00:05:56,950 --> 00:06:00,909 GED DOCHERTY: birthday — so the first critical 1001 157 00:06:00,910 --> 00:06:02,657 GED DOCHERTY: days of a child's life. 158 00:06:02,658 --> 00:06:03,981 COLIN SMY: That's fantastic, Ged. 159 00:06:03,982 --> 00:06:06,729 COLIN SMY: And that leads nicely into the first two areas 160 00:06:06,730 --> 00:06:08,884 COLIN SMY: we're talking about. In Better Start and the 161 00:06:08,885 --> 00:06:11,409 COLIN SMY: Centre for Early Child Development, we like to 162 00:06:11,410 --> 00:06:14,439 COLIN SMY: always talk about the 1001 days and why they're 163 00:06:14,440 --> 00:06:15,819 COLIN SMY: so critical. 164 00:06:15,820 --> 00:06:18,249 COLIN SMY: What for you — and we've spoken about this 165 00:06:18,250 --> 00:06:20,619 COLIN SMY: regularly at different times — but what for you 166 00:06:20,620 --> 00:06:23,319 COLIN SMY: is so important about those first 1001 days that 167 00:06:23,320 --> 00:06:25,299 COLIN SMY: you see in families and the challenges in 168 00:06:25,300 --> 00:06:25,418 COLIN SMY: Blackpool? 169 00:06:25,419 --> 00:06:28,329 GED DOCHERTY: We both know, because we've worked in the 170 00:06:28,330 --> 00:06:31,269 GED DOCHERTY: town for a very long time, that there are 171 00:06:31,270 --> 00:06:34,269 GED DOCHERTY: lots of complex issues which 172 00:06:34,270 --> 00:06:37,599 GED DOCHERTY: are unique to the families 173 00:06:37,600 --> 00:06:38,889 GED DOCHERTY: in our town. 174 00:06:38,890 --> 00:06:41,949 GED DOCHERTY: Blackpool is top of the list for all 175 00:06:41,950 --> 00:06:44,259 GED DOCHERTY: the right reasons and it's the top of the 176 00:06:44,260 --> 00:06:46,059 GED DOCHERTY: list for all the wrong reasons. 177 00:06:46,060 --> 00:06:48,309 GED DOCHERTY: Some of the families that we serve live in 178 00:06:48,310 --> 00:06:51,789 GED DOCHERTY: the poorest ward in England, 179 00:06:51,790 --> 00:06:55,869 GED DOCHERTY: so poverty in and of itself has a massive 180 00:06:55,870 --> 00:06:59,049 GED DOCHERTY: detrimental impact on a child 181 00:06:59,050 --> 00:07:03,309 GED DOCHERTY: and their family's outcomes without 182 00:07:03,310 --> 00:07:07,119 GED DOCHERTY: the additional complex needs associated 183 00:07:07,120 --> 00:07:10,539 GED DOCHERTY: with their parents, their parent's childhood, 184 00:07:10,540 --> 00:07:12,399 GED DOCHERTY: and their parent's past. 185 00:07:12,400 --> 00:07:15,399 GED DOCHERTY: I am a social worker by profession and I've 186 00:07:15,400 --> 00:07:17,499 GED DOCHERTY: worked with children and families for 30 187 00:07:17,500 --> 00:07:20,589 GED DOCHERTY: years, and across that spectrum of my 188 00:07:20,590 --> 00:07:23,739 GED DOCHERTY: practice, my learning has 189 00:07:23,740 --> 00:07:26,709 GED DOCHERTY: continued, grown, developed our 190 00:07:26,710 --> 00:07:29,799 GED DOCHERTY: understanding of children and babies 191 00:07:29,800 --> 00:07:32,830 GED DOCHERTY: and families functioning and their 192 00:07:32,831 --> 00:07:34,749 GED DOCHERTY: capacity has grown and developed. 193 00:07:34,750 --> 00:07:37,929 GED DOCHERTY: And the For Baby's Sake model of practice, 194 00:07:37,930 --> 00:07:41,319 GED DOCHERTY: which was developed some ten years ago, 195 00:07:41,320 --> 00:07:44,349 GED DOCHERTY: clearly tells us that the work 196 00:07:44,350 --> 00:07:46,659 GED DOCHERTY: that has been undertaken with families — 197 00:07:46,660 --> 00:07:49,929 GED DOCHERTY: targeted thematic work which takes 198 00:07:49,930 --> 00:07:53,019 GED DOCHERTY: into account intergenerational 199 00:07:53,020 --> 00:07:56,229 GED DOCHERTY: cycles of harm — that how we can support 200 00:07:56,230 --> 00:07:58,989 GED DOCHERTY: families to break those cycles and that we 201 00:07:58,990 --> 00:08:02,979 GED DOCHERTY: can potentially improve a child's 202 00:08:02,980 --> 00:08:06,009 GED DOCHERTY: healthy outcomes, emotional 203 00:08:06,010 --> 00:08:09,819 GED DOCHERTY: and social, across their lifespan. 204 00:08:09,820 --> 00:08:12,999 GED DOCHERTY: And that is significant 205 00:08:13,000 --> 00:08:13,833 GED DOCHERTY: beyond comprehension. 206 00:08:13,834 --> 00:08:16,899 COLIN SMY: Yeah, and there's a number of 207 00:08:16,900 --> 00:08:19,089 COLIN SMY: reports that we come across quite regularly, and 208 00:08:19,090 --> 00:08:21,129 COLIN SMY: it certainly made it to a parliamentary level 209 00:08:21,130 --> 00:08:23,229 COLIN SMY: now, where we've seen start for life funding 210 00:08:23,230 --> 00:08:26,469 COLIN SMY: recently looking at the first 1001 days 211 00:08:26,470 --> 00:08:28,929 COLIN SMY: and the impact on that. We talk about word gaps. 212 00:08:28,930 --> 00:08:31,809 COLIN SMY: Children and babies are quite often not exposed 213 00:08:31,810 --> 00:08:33,219 COLIN SMY: to that speech and language and the 214 00:08:33,220 --> 00:08:35,139 COLIN SMY: opportunities to learn and be able to 215 00:08:35,140 --> 00:08:38,319 COLIN SMY: communicate. And we know that the brain develops 216 00:08:38,320 --> 00:08:41,619 COLIN SMY: most rapidly at that early stage; starts out 217 00:08:41,620 --> 00:08:44,079 COLIN SMY: quite smooth and flat and all those neurones 218 00:08:44,080 --> 00:08:47,229 COLIN SMY: firing about with all the input that goes on. 219 00:08:47,230 --> 00:08:49,779 COLIN SMY: It's really important that we've got the 220 00:08:49,780 --> 00:08:53,259 COLIN SMY: opportunity for those babies to experience 221 00:08:53,260 --> 00:08:56,529 COLIN SMY: what's required for the inputs without it being 222 00:08:56,530 --> 00:08:58,389 COLIN SMY: over the top, without being negative, without 223 00:08:58,390 --> 00:08:59,769 COLIN SMY: being toxic. 224 00:08:59,770 --> 00:09:01,359 COLIN SMY: It's a bit like finding a Goldilocks zone 225 00:09:01,360 --> 00:09:03,549 COLIN SMY: sometimes, isn't it? But it doesn't have to 226 00:09:03,550 --> 00:09:07,389 COLIN SMY: quite that complicated — not astrophysics — does 227 00:09:07,390 --> 00:09:08,390 COLIN SMY: it? 228 00:09:08,591 --> 00:09:10,839 GED DOCHERTY: No. And it's really significant that you 229 00:09:10,840 --> 00:09:13,479 GED DOCHERTY: mention that, because integral to the work 230 00:09:13,480 --> 00:09:15,879 GED DOCHERTY: that we do in For Baby's Sake is that we 231 00:09:15,880 --> 00:09:19,599 GED DOCHERTY: support parents to understand via 232 00:09:19,600 --> 00:09:22,659 GED DOCHERTY: the Alberta wellness brain 233 00:09:22,660 --> 00:09:25,629 GED DOCHERTY: training — accredited training 234 00:09:25,630 --> 00:09:28,089 GED DOCHERTY: that is free for anyone — is that we support 235 00:09:28,090 --> 00:09:31,539 GED DOCHERTY: our parents in the way that parents now 236 00:09:31,540 --> 00:09:34,749 GED DOCHERTY: know the harmful impacts of 237 00:09:34,750 --> 00:09:38,139 GED DOCHERTY: smoking and alcohol during pregnancy. 238 00:09:38,140 --> 00:09:40,419 GED DOCHERTY: They now understand the impacts on their 239 00:09:40,420 --> 00:09:43,989 GED DOCHERTY: baby's developing brain of the stress 240 00:09:43,990 --> 00:09:47,229 GED DOCHERTY: hormone cortisol, which can be present 241 00:09:47,230 --> 00:09:49,929 GED DOCHERTY: if someone is a victim experiencing 242 00:09:49,930 --> 00:09:53,199 GED DOCHERTY: consistent forms of domestic violence 243 00:09:53,200 --> 00:09:57,159 GED DOCHERTY: and other associated abuse behaviours. 244 00:09:57,160 --> 00:10:00,369 GED DOCHERTY: So when we capture parents at that 245 00:10:00,370 --> 00:10:03,459 GED DOCHERTY: critical moment in time, whilst the baby's in 246 00:10:03,460 --> 00:10:06,579 GED DOCHERTY: utero, and we develop their understanding of 247 00:10:06,580 --> 00:10:09,219 GED DOCHERTY: the harm that can be caused, people then can 248 00:10:09,220 --> 00:10:10,569 GED DOCHERTY: make safer choices. 249 00:10:10,570 --> 00:10:13,239 GED DOCHERTY: In the past, the countless times that I would 250 00:10:13,240 --> 00:10:15,039 GED DOCHERTY: have conversations with parents and they 251 00:10:15,040 --> 00:10:16,989 GED DOCHERTY: would say, "what you on about? 252 00:10:16,990 --> 00:10:19,449 GED DOCHERTY: The kids were upstairs," or "well, the baby's 253 00:10:19,450 --> 00:10:22,599 GED DOCHERTY: inside. What harm is it coming to? 254 00:10:22,600 --> 00:10:24,369 GED DOCHERTY: I never touched her." But they have no 255 00:10:24,370 --> 00:10:27,639 GED DOCHERTY: concept of the harm that was physically 256 00:10:27,640 --> 00:10:30,189 GED DOCHERTY: taking place because that baby's mother was 257 00:10:30,190 --> 00:10:33,669 GED DOCHERTY: stressed. So that is a significant 258 00:10:33,670 --> 00:10:36,639 GED DOCHERTY: piece of learning that we undertake with 259 00:10:36,640 --> 00:10:39,999 GED DOCHERTY: parents at that critical moment in time. 260 00:10:40,000 --> 00:10:43,119 GED DOCHERTY: And then when we've established that 261 00:10:43,120 --> 00:10:46,149 GED DOCHERTY: groundwork, understanding, that 262 00:10:46,150 --> 00:10:47,989 GED DOCHERTY: then forms the basis. 263 00:10:47,990 --> 00:10:50,019 GED DOCHERTY: That's like our foundation. 264 00:10:50,020 --> 00:10:53,259 GED DOCHERTY: And then we begin to build upon and build 265 00:10:53,260 --> 00:10:56,139 GED DOCHERTY: upon and bring all of the other learning in 266 00:10:56,140 --> 00:10:59,499 GED DOCHERTY: too; about people's capacity to learn 267 00:10:59,500 --> 00:11:02,799 GED DOCHERTY: how to self-soothe, self-regulate, make safer 268 00:11:02,800 --> 00:11:05,829 GED DOCHERTY: choices, function in a different way, 269 00:11:05,830 --> 00:11:08,919 GED DOCHERTY: understand their past and the impact that 270 00:11:08,920 --> 00:11:11,559 GED DOCHERTY: their parents' past and the grandparents' 271 00:11:11,560 --> 00:11:14,529 GED DOCHERTY: past has had on their functioning 272 00:11:14,530 --> 00:11:17,319 GED DOCHERTY: and how they deal with situations. 273 00:11:17,320 --> 00:11:20,109 COLIN SMY: Yeah, and I think what's interesting is how 274 00:11:20,110 --> 00:11:22,929 COLIN SMY: we're able to move through the pillars of what 275 00:11:22,930 --> 00:11:25,119 COLIN SMY: Better Start's looking at there and introduce it 276 00:11:25,120 --> 00:11:27,039 COLIN SMY: around speech, language and communication and 277 00:11:27,040 --> 00:11:29,199 COLIN SMY: being able to verbalise emotions. 278 00:11:29,200 --> 00:11:30,819 COLIN SMY: And actually what you're able to talk about 279 00:11:30,820 --> 00:11:32,889 COLIN SMY: there, moving into is the social and emotional 280 00:11:32,890 --> 00:11:34,449 COLIN SMY: development we're looking at, and that's the 281 00:11:34,450 --> 00:11:36,189 COLIN SMY: critical— one of the other critical elements of 282 00:11:36,190 --> 00:11:39,189 COLIN SMY: that first 1001 days: that babies 283 00:11:39,190 --> 00:11:41,649 COLIN SMY: learn about how to regulate emotion, how to 284 00:11:41,650 --> 00:11:44,259 COLIN SMY: build relationships with caregivers. 285 00:11:44,260 --> 00:11:47,169 COLIN SMY: And I'm not going to try and be clever and list 286 00:11:47,170 --> 00:11:49,685 COLIN SMY: all the chemicals off, cortisol and oxytocin 287 00:11:50,920 --> 00:11:53,619 COLIN SMY: and the other ones, but they're all firing and 288 00:11:53,620 --> 00:11:55,809 COLIN SMY: going away about how they manage those 289 00:11:55,810 --> 00:11:57,489 COLIN SMY: relationships. And it's interesting when you say 290 00:11:57,490 --> 00:12:00,489 COLIN SMY: about self-soothing as well, as adults how 291 00:12:00,490 --> 00:12:02,409 COLIN SMY: we do it, but it's understanding that as 292 00:12:02,410 --> 00:12:04,635 COLIN SMY: children and as babies, when we're a caregiver, 293 00:12:04,636 --> 00:12:06,999 COLIN SMY: and we can see the difference between those 294 00:12:07,000 --> 00:12:09,219 COLIN SMY: children, can't we, that we work with in the 295 00:12:09,220 --> 00:12:12,369 COLIN SMY: families who are overfamiliar, 296 00:12:12,370 --> 00:12:13,659 COLIN SMY: underfamiliar... 297 00:12:13,660 --> 00:12:15,549 COLIN SMY: The behaviours around different people are 298 00:12:15,550 --> 00:12:18,579 COLIN SMY: different because they might come to— when we 299 00:12:18,580 --> 00:12:21,069 COLIN SMY: talk about self-soothing and crying sometimes 300 00:12:21,070 --> 00:12:23,019 COLIN SMY: actually it's understanding what that baby's 301 00:12:23,020 --> 00:12:25,029 COLIN SMY: telling you by crying. 302 00:12:25,030 --> 00:12:27,759 COLIN SMY: They're not using words and our language, but 303 00:12:27,760 --> 00:12:29,469 COLIN SMY: they're using the language that's open to them 304 00:12:29,470 --> 00:12:31,299 COLIN SMY: to try to get attention, to try to get 305 00:12:31,300 --> 00:12:33,219 COLIN SMY: affection, to try to get the love, and 306 00:12:33,220 --> 00:12:35,709 COLIN SMY: understanding that actually it's okay for babies 307 00:12:35,710 --> 00:12:39,279 COLIN SMY: to cry. And you responding 308 00:12:39,280 --> 00:12:41,891 COLIN SMY: to them isn't spoiling them. 309 00:12:41,892 --> 00:12:45,009 GED DOCHERTY: Yeah. It's okay for parents to 310 00:12:45,010 --> 00:12:48,459 GED DOCHERTY: say, "my baby crying is stressing 311 00:12:48,460 --> 00:12:51,009 GED DOCHERTY: me out." We know, because we talk all the 312 00:12:51,010 --> 00:12:53,709 GED DOCHERTY: time about working with especially the dads 313 00:12:53,710 --> 00:12:56,409 GED DOCHERTY: in our town — and I don't mean to generalise 314 00:12:56,410 --> 00:12:59,799 GED DOCHERTY: or make it gender specific — but we know 315 00:12:59,800 --> 00:13:03,129 GED DOCHERTY: that there are dads in our town whose 316 00:13:03,130 --> 00:13:06,399 GED DOCHERTY: capacity to know how to be the best parent 317 00:13:06,400 --> 00:13:09,609 GED DOCHERTY: possible is limited, and that's 318 00:13:09,610 --> 00:13:13,239 GED DOCHERTY: because of structural inequalities 319 00:13:13,240 --> 00:13:16,034 GED DOCHERTY: within the service provision in our town. 320 00:13:16,035 --> 00:13:18,459 GED DOCHERTY: Blackpool is making huge strides forward in 321 00:13:18,460 --> 00:13:21,249 GED DOCHERTY: all of the new services and training 322 00:13:21,250 --> 00:13:23,581 GED DOCHERTY: opportunities for parents, run by parents, 323 00:13:23,582 --> 00:13:26,169 GED DOCHERTY: run by professionals, that everyone can 324 00:13:26,170 --> 00:13:29,829 GED DOCHERTY: access. And our dads are gaining 325 00:13:29,830 --> 00:13:32,889 GED DOCHERTY: confidence in how they are 326 00:13:32,890 --> 00:13:35,889 GED DOCHERTY: approaching their role as a parent and 327 00:13:35,890 --> 00:13:39,039 GED DOCHERTY: a partner. And a partner in terms of being 328 00:13:39,040 --> 00:13:42,069 GED DOCHERTY: a co-parent, not just a partner to 329 00:13:42,070 --> 00:13:43,779 GED DOCHERTY: your significant other. 330 00:13:43,780 --> 00:13:46,899 GED DOCHERTY: It's about the partnership of parenting 331 00:13:46,900 --> 00:13:47,491 GED DOCHERTY: that baby. 332 00:13:47,492 --> 00:13:50,739 COLIN SMY: And we saw that in the 333 00:13:50,740 --> 00:13:54,009 COLIN SMY: recording from a couple of your parents — Jake 334 00:13:54,010 --> 00:13:54,879 COLIN SMY: and Charlotte. 335 00:13:54,880 --> 00:13:55,599 GED DOCHERTY: Yeah. 336 00:13:55,600 --> 00:13:56,889 COLIN SMY: Jake talks quite a bit. 337 00:13:56,890 --> 00:13:59,709 COLIN SMY: And it's interesting because when he's been 338 00:13:59,710 --> 00:14:02,119 COLIN SMY: through For Baby's Sake with your team — I think 339 00:14:02,120 --> 00:14:04,659 COLIN SMY: it's Owen he worked with wasn't it — and he's 340 00:14:04,660 --> 00:14:07,269 COLIN SMY: actually reflected on the way he's changed and 341 00:14:07,270 --> 00:14:09,719 COLIN SMY: the impact of his parenting before, the impact 342 00:14:09,720 --> 00:14:11,319 COLIN SMY: of parenting afterwards, but also the impact of 343 00:14:11,320 --> 00:14:12,699 COLIN SMY: his behaviour on his partner. 344 00:14:12,700 --> 00:14:15,189 COLIN SMY: So he stopped thinking to himself "he's dad on 345 00:14:15,190 --> 00:14:17,889 COLIN SMY: his own, she's mum on her own, and that's baby 346 00:14:17,890 --> 00:14:20,019 COLIN SMY: on her own", and started thinking of themselves 347 00:14:20,020 --> 00:14:22,599 COLIN SMY: as a family, as a triad, and all reliant on one 348 00:14:22,600 --> 00:14:23,349 COLIN SMY: another. 349 00:14:23,350 --> 00:14:26,739 JAKE: Me in the past, being obviously a perpetrator of 350 00:14:26,740 --> 00:14:29,349 JAKE: domestic violence and domestic abuse, it's been, 351 00:14:30,400 --> 00:14:33,759 JAKE: you know, my whole perception of a relationship 352 00:14:33,760 --> 00:14:36,219 JAKE: was completely out of order and wrong. 353 00:14:36,220 --> 00:14:39,579 JAKE: It wasn't healthy. It's never been healthy and 354 00:14:39,580 --> 00:14:42,879 JAKE: it's kind of given me ways to change 355 00:14:42,880 --> 00:14:46,029 JAKE: that and how to 356 00:14:46,030 --> 00:14:48,639 JAKE: realise that, you know, things are normal. 357 00:14:48,640 --> 00:14:51,339 JAKE: Like if Charlotte needs a bit of time to just go 358 00:14:51,340 --> 00:14:54,339 JAKE: away, have her time, it's okay for that 359 00:14:54,340 --> 00:14:56,409 JAKE: to happen. Instead of me being... 360 00:14:56,410 --> 00:14:59,649 JAKE: Wanting to solve things there and then and stuff 361 00:14:59,650 --> 00:15:02,483 JAKE: and I think that passes on. If someone's been violent 362 00:15:02,484 --> 00:15:03,699 JAKE: towards a partner before. 363 00:15:04,900 --> 00:15:08,019 JAKE: You know, it can easily happen to a family 364 00:15:08,020 --> 00:15:09,202 JAKE: member, you know, a child that 365 00:15:11,230 --> 00:15:13,929 JAKE: is there. I mean, someone who's violent and who has a 366 00:15:13,930 --> 00:15:16,809 JAKE: violent outburst doesn't think what he's doing at the 367 00:15:16,810 --> 00:15:18,297 JAKE: time nine times out of ten. 368 00:15:18,298 --> 00:15:20,940 JAKE: It's just the red mist descends. 369 00:15:22,690 --> 00:15:24,459 JAKE: The violent outburst happens. And then before you 370 00:15:24,460 --> 00:15:27,459 JAKE: know it, you know, my child 371 00:15:27,460 --> 00:15:28,460 JAKE: could be hurt. 372 00:15:29,320 --> 00:15:30,320 JAKE: My partner could be hurt. 373 00:15:30,700 --> 00:15:33,689 JAKE: And, I guess, trying to turn that 374 00:15:33,690 --> 00:15:35,639 JAKE: violence into a more 375 00:15:36,780 --> 00:15:39,929 JAKE: better managed behaviour that deals with that emotion 376 00:15:39,930 --> 00:15:42,869 JAKE: that you're feeling is one of the best things that 377 00:15:42,870 --> 00:15:45,899 JAKE: will keep that child safe and 378 00:15:45,900 --> 00:15:49,109 JAKE: stop anything happening that could harm 379 00:15:49,110 --> 00:15:49,409 JAKE: her. 380 00:15:49,410 --> 00:15:52,439 GED DOCHERTY: Jake had significant adversity in his 381 00:15:52,440 --> 00:15:55,289 GED DOCHERTY: past. And when we first met him, he was 382 00:15:55,290 --> 00:15:57,569 GED DOCHERTY: serving a prison sentence. 383 00:15:57,570 --> 00:15:59,669 GED DOCHERTY: But we were still able to work with him 384 00:15:59,670 --> 00:16:01,229 GED DOCHERTY: whilst he was in prison. 385 00:16:01,230 --> 00:16:04,109 GED DOCHERTY: We had virtual contact with him. 386 00:16:04,110 --> 00:16:05,819 GED DOCHERTY: Owen went to see him face-to-face and did 387 00:16:05,820 --> 00:16:08,309 GED DOCHERTY: programme work in the prison with him. 388 00:16:08,310 --> 00:16:11,099 GED DOCHERTY: And then that work seamlessly continued when 389 00:16:11,100 --> 00:16:14,189 GED DOCHERTY: he came out back into the community and 390 00:16:14,190 --> 00:16:16,169 GED DOCHERTY: was living in his own place. 391 00:16:16,170 --> 00:16:18,779 GED DOCHERTY: They were living separately at that time. 392 00:16:18,780 --> 00:16:20,789 GED DOCHERTY: The baby had been subject to a child 393 00:16:20,790 --> 00:16:23,789 GED DOCHERTY: protection plan and the evidence that was 394 00:16:23,790 --> 00:16:26,639 GED DOCHERTY: being generated via the work that him and his 395 00:16:26,640 --> 00:16:29,283 GED DOCHERTY: partner Charlotte were doing — our consistent 396 00:16:29,284 --> 00:16:32,609 GED DOCHERTY: contact and feeding it into 397 00:16:32,610 --> 00:16:34,611 GED DOCHERTY: that statutory social work process — to 398 00:16:35,880 --> 00:16:38,844 GED DOCHERTY: the point where I came back from leave today 399 00:16:38,845 --> 00:16:42,149 GED DOCHERTY: and was copied into an email, and the family 400 00:16:42,150 --> 00:16:45,239 GED DOCHERTY: have stepped down to universal 401 00:16:45,240 --> 00:16:48,599 GED DOCHERTY: services because there is no presenting 402 00:16:48,600 --> 00:16:51,779 GED DOCHERTY: evidence of any risk to that child 403 00:16:51,780 --> 00:16:53,549 GED DOCHERTY: because their parents have been utterly 404 00:16:53,550 --> 00:16:55,979 GED DOCHERTY: committed to making those changes. 405 00:16:55,980 --> 00:16:58,949 GED DOCHERTY: But you used the word reflect when you were 406 00:16:58,950 --> 00:17:00,839 GED DOCHERTY: talking about some of the stuff that Jake had 407 00:17:00,840 --> 00:17:03,929 GED DOCHERTY: said. Jake and Charlotte have 408 00:17:03,930 --> 00:17:07,799 GED DOCHERTY: embraced the concept of reflection, 409 00:17:07,800 --> 00:17:10,799 GED DOCHERTY: and they've used that to make their 410 00:17:10,800 --> 00:17:13,889 GED DOCHERTY: situation safer, because they are 411 00:17:13,890 --> 00:17:16,919 GED DOCHERTY: actively thinking about decisions that 412 00:17:16,920 --> 00:17:19,169 GED DOCHERTY: they've made in the past, decisions they're 413 00:17:19,170 --> 00:17:20,429 GED DOCHERTY: making in the present. 414 00:17:20,430 --> 00:17:21,989 GED DOCHERTY: What is the right thing to do? 415 00:17:21,990 --> 00:17:23,999 GED DOCHERTY: What is the safest thing to do? 416 00:17:24,000 --> 00:17:26,098 GED DOCHERTY: Why did we end up in this situation? 417 00:17:26,099 --> 00:17:27,838 GED DOCHERTY: What caused that to happen? 418 00:17:27,839 --> 00:17:29,789 GED DOCHERTY: What could have been done differently? 419 00:17:31,020 --> 00:17:33,779 GED DOCHERTY: And it's that taking ownership of all of 420 00:17:33,780 --> 00:17:35,579 GED DOCHERTY: those aspects of your life and your 421 00:17:35,580 --> 00:17:38,669 GED DOCHERTY: behaviour, owning it, talking 422 00:17:38,670 --> 00:17:41,939 GED DOCHERTY: about it, sharing it, reflecting on it, 423 00:17:41,940 --> 00:17:45,089 GED DOCHERTY: being curious, asking questions, asking 424 00:17:45,090 --> 00:17:48,899 GED DOCHERTY: for advice, connecting to the community. 425 00:17:48,900 --> 00:17:51,089 GED DOCHERTY: And that's another thing that is really 426 00:17:51,090 --> 00:17:53,227 GED DOCHERTY: integral to the success of our For Baby's 427 00:17:53,228 --> 00:17:54,929 GED DOCHERTY: Sake families. 428 00:17:54,930 --> 00:17:58,439 GED DOCHERTY: We as a team actively promote 429 00:17:58,440 --> 00:18:00,959 GED DOCHERTY: connection to the community and what the 430 00:18:00,960 --> 00:18:03,809 GED DOCHERTY: services in Blackpool have to offer. 431 00:18:03,810 --> 00:18:06,809 GED DOCHERTY: There is a whole portfolio of 432 00:18:06,810 --> 00:18:09,779 GED DOCHERTY: stuff out there for those families to 433 00:18:09,780 --> 00:18:10,221 GED DOCHERTY: connect to. 434 00:18:10,222 --> 00:18:13,829 COLIN SMY: So there's a couple of things in unpicking 435 00:18:13,830 --> 00:18:16,779 COLIN SMY: Jake and Charlotte's story from when we've 436 00:18:16,780 --> 00:18:18,269 COLIN SMY: watched it and what you just said there. 437 00:18:18,270 --> 00:18:20,759 COLIN SMY: And I know I've spoken already about, you know, 438 00:18:20,760 --> 00:18:22,163 COLIN SMY: Better Start and the Centre for Early Child 439 00:18:22,164 --> 00:18:23,849 COLIN SMY: Development. We talk about our pillars and we've 440 00:18:23,850 --> 00:18:26,159 COLIN SMY: covered social emotional development, speech and 441 00:18:26,160 --> 00:18:29,249 COLIN SMY: language. But there is also in there about 442 00:18:29,250 --> 00:18:31,469 COLIN SMY: the pregnancy period and why healthy gestation 443 00:18:31,470 --> 00:18:33,449 COLIN SMY: and birth is so vital to the baby. 444 00:18:33,450 --> 00:18:34,503 COLIN SMY: And you've said about being in utero. 445 00:18:35,700 --> 00:18:38,279 COLIN SMY: But in Jake and Charlotte's story, obviously 446 00:18:38,280 --> 00:18:42,089 COLIN SMY: with Jake being incarcerated, and 447 00:18:42,090 --> 00:18:44,219 COLIN SMY: a factor that we talk about regularly is 448 00:18:44,220 --> 00:18:47,149 COLIN SMY: understanding what a trauma-informed approach is 449 00:18:47,150 --> 00:18:49,259 COLIN SMY: and trauma-informed approach doesn't always just 450 00:18:49,260 --> 00:18:52,109 COLIN SMY: have to be about the child or just about mum as 451 00:18:52,110 --> 00:18:53,479 COLIN SMY: typically happens. In your example, we're 452 00:18:53,480 --> 00:18:55,889 COLIN SMY: talking about dad, and I know in the video, both 453 00:18:55,890 --> 00:18:58,439 COLIN SMY: Jake and Charlotte, but particularly Jake, talk 454 00:18:58,440 --> 00:19:01,049 COLIN SMY: about past traumas they've experienced and how 455 00:19:01,050 --> 00:19:04,769 COLIN SMY: that's affected their upbringing and then 456 00:19:04,770 --> 00:19:07,169 COLIN SMY: their own parenting styles and standards. 457 00:19:07,170 --> 00:19:10,259 KAREN: Can I ask as well, when we're talking about 458 00:19:10,260 --> 00:19:12,599 KAREN: parenting and we do some of that reflection work, 459 00:19:12,600 --> 00:19:15,329 KAREN: and we're talking about our childhood experiences 460 00:19:15,330 --> 00:19:16,619 KAREN: and how we were parented. 461 00:19:17,940 --> 00:19:21,329 KAREN: Have you found that helpful, unpicking some of that 462 00:19:21,330 --> 00:19:23,669 KAREN: experiences about what it's like for you as 463 00:19:23,670 --> 00:19:24,539 KAREN: children. 464 00:19:24,540 --> 00:19:26,939 JAKE: Yeah, I found it very helpful. 465 00:19:26,940 --> 00:19:29,939 JAKE: I mean, I've... I never realised I've been 466 00:19:29,940 --> 00:19:32,864 JAKE: always a supporter of my parent 467 00:19:34,440 --> 00:19:35,811 JAKE: and what my 468 00:19:37,530 --> 00:19:38,849 JAKE: childhood was. 469 00:19:38,850 --> 00:19:40,578 JAKE: But then when I've looked back at some of... 470 00:19:42,360 --> 00:19:44,129 JAKE: you know, as you call it, the adverse childhood 471 00:19:44,130 --> 00:19:47,249 JAKE: experiences, and looking back on them and thinking 472 00:19:47,250 --> 00:19:50,309 JAKE: maybe this wasn't quite right and maybe that wasn't 473 00:19:50,310 --> 00:19:52,919 JAKE: quite right. Where I've just justified things my 474 00:19:52,920 --> 00:19:55,949 JAKE: whole life, I can kind of look back and think, "that 475 00:19:55,950 --> 00:19:58,070 JAKE: wasn't right, so let's not do that this time". 476 00:19:59,190 --> 00:20:02,279 JAKE: Because a lot of parents do take what their parent or 477 00:20:02,280 --> 00:20:05,379 JAKE: the parents have brought into their lives and they 478 00:20:05,380 --> 00:20:08,369 JAKE: think, "oh, because my parent brought me up, this is 479 00:20:08,370 --> 00:20:11,519 JAKE: how I'm going to do it with my child." And that's 480 00:20:11,520 --> 00:20:13,769 JAKE: not always the best option. 481 00:20:13,770 --> 00:20:16,859 CHARLOTTE: I think when you've experienced something as 482 00:20:16,860 --> 00:20:20,849 CHARLOTTE: a child, it becomes normalised, 483 00:20:20,850 --> 00:20:23,542 CHARLOTTE: and the work that we've done with For Baby's 484 00:20:23,543 --> 00:20:26,319 CHARLOTTE: Sake has made me realise some of the things that 485 00:20:26,320 --> 00:20:29,099 CHARLOTTE: I may have witnessed as a child aren't normal 486 00:20:29,100 --> 00:20:32,389 CHARLOTTE: and that has helped me to realise 487 00:20:32,390 --> 00:20:35,329 CHARLOTTE: that that's not what I want Isabella to witness 488 00:20:35,330 --> 00:20:36,330 CHARLOTTE: as she's growing up. 489 00:20:37,520 --> 00:20:38,399 CHARLOTTE: Yeah. 490 00:20:38,400 --> 00:20:41,419 JAKE: Touching on what I said earlier about my 491 00:20:41,420 --> 00:20:42,976 JAKE: parent, my childhood, and how 492 00:20:46,160 --> 00:20:49,189 JAKE: it made me as a person feeling like no 493 00:20:49,190 --> 00:20:50,899 JAKE: one wanted me. You know? 494 00:20:50,900 --> 00:20:54,049 JAKE: And with our relationship, how I'd ring constantly 495 00:20:54,050 --> 00:20:57,829 JAKE: and need your reassurance and 496 00:20:57,830 --> 00:20:58,830 JAKE: your attention. 497 00:20:59,300 --> 00:21:02,089 JAKE: I think doing this work and you doing this work 498 00:21:02,090 --> 00:21:05,389 JAKE: yourself and getting that self-belief 499 00:21:05,390 --> 00:21:07,144 JAKE: and making you more 500 00:21:08,570 --> 00:21:11,569 JAKE: confident. You know, that confidence that I probably 501 00:21:11,570 --> 00:21:14,539 JAKE: brought down with with all the reassurance I needed. 502 00:21:14,540 --> 00:21:17,119 JAKE: You building that back up, and me being able to build 503 00:21:17,120 --> 00:21:19,446 JAKE: that up at the same time rather than you building it 504 00:21:19,447 --> 00:21:22,399 JAKE: up or me breaking it down; both of our 505 00:21:22,400 --> 00:21:25,549 JAKE: competencies rise and it kind of just— 506 00:21:25,550 --> 00:21:28,219 JAKE: we bounce off each other and able to come up with 507 00:21:28,220 --> 00:21:30,439 JAKE: solutions to problems, something we wouldn't have 508 00:21:30,440 --> 00:21:31,440 JAKE: been able to do before. And making 509 00:21:35,150 --> 00:21:38,119 JAKE: us being that way and having that self-belief 510 00:21:38,120 --> 00:21:41,299 JAKE: in ourselves as parents and us 511 00:21:41,300 --> 00:21:42,853 JAKE: being in a relationship is kind of just made 512 00:21:45,130 --> 00:21:47,789 JAKE: Isabella the girl she is today, you know, happy, 513 00:21:47,790 --> 00:21:50,829 JAKE: thriving, you know, in 514 00:21:50,830 --> 00:21:52,239 JAKE: every minute of your life. 515 00:21:52,240 --> 00:21:53,259 JAKE: Which is the way it should be. 516 00:21:55,280 --> 00:21:58,039 COLIN SMY: By you guys having been aware of that and the 517 00:21:58,040 --> 00:22:00,679 COLIN SMY: way you've worked and spoke to them, I know they 518 00:22:00,680 --> 00:22:03,649 COLIN SMY: said they've worked with different people 519 00:22:03,650 --> 00:22:05,749 COLIN SMY: independently, but them being able to talk about 520 00:22:05,750 --> 00:22:07,999 COLIN SMY: their work together so that there's no secrets. 521 00:22:08,000 --> 00:22:10,579 COLIN SMY: And it removes those issues about where they may 522 00:22:10,580 --> 00:22:13,399 COLIN SMY: have come across either trauma in their own 523 00:22:13,400 --> 00:22:16,189 COLIN SMY: childhood that they've experienced directly at 524 00:22:16,190 --> 00:22:18,679 COLIN SMY: the hands of individuals, or trauma that they've 525 00:22:18,680 --> 00:22:20,839 COLIN SMY: experienced in interacting with services as 526 00:22:20,840 --> 00:22:23,449 COLIN SMY: well, which is just as difficult for some 527 00:22:23,450 --> 00:22:25,939 COLIN SMY: families to come across. And then bringing that 528 00:22:25,940 --> 00:22:29,059 COLIN SMY: all back together has helped to knit them 529 00:22:29,060 --> 00:22:30,709 COLIN SMY: into part of the community and make them a 530 00:22:30,710 --> 00:22:32,509 COLIN SMY: community within their own right and their own 531 00:22:32,510 --> 00:22:35,629 COLIN SMY: family, so they're able to address those traumas 532 00:22:35,630 --> 00:22:38,749 COLIN SMY: that they've got and not deflect that onto 533 00:22:38,750 --> 00:22:41,599 COLIN SMY: their baby. Which I think then brings us up to 534 00:22:41,600 --> 00:22:44,659 COLIN SMY: speed with where we might talk about how 535 00:22:44,660 --> 00:22:47,989 COLIN SMY: does our work in that first 1001 days intervene 536 00:22:47,990 --> 00:22:51,439 COLIN SMY: and prevent or support safeguarding 537 00:22:51,440 --> 00:22:53,469 COLIN SMY: of children, I should say. So, where you've 538 00:22:53,470 --> 00:22:55,369 COLIN SMY: brought us up to speed with Jake and Charlotte's 539 00:22:55,370 --> 00:22:58,129 COLIN SMY: story, where they're up to now — without that, 540 00:22:58,130 --> 00:22:59,779 COLIN SMY: what might we be looking at in terms of 541 00:22:59,780 --> 00:23:02,749 COLIN SMY: safeguarding? So what's so vital about the 542 00:23:02,750 --> 00:23:06,079 COLIN SMY: work we've done in that 1001 days early doors 543 00:23:06,080 --> 00:23:08,459 COLIN SMY: that's safeguarded against safeguarding in the 544 00:23:08,460 --> 00:23:10,099 COLIN SMY: long-term, if that makes sense. 545 00:23:10,100 --> 00:23:11,419 GED DOCHERTY: Yeah, it does make sense. 546 00:23:11,420 --> 00:23:14,119 GED DOCHERTY: And I guess we could break it down. 547 00:23:14,120 --> 00:23:15,829 GED DOCHERTY: So thinking about the question that you've 548 00:23:15,830 --> 00:23:18,739 GED DOCHERTY: asked me. I think all of the things that we 549 00:23:18,740 --> 00:23:21,060 GED DOCHERTY: do — the For Baby's Sake team do — which 550 00:23:22,100 --> 00:23:25,309 GED DOCHERTY: supports safeguarding, is 551 00:23:25,310 --> 00:23:28,339 GED DOCHERTY: that we have the capacity to 552 00:23:28,340 --> 00:23:31,759 GED DOCHERTY: be able to build a 553 00:23:31,760 --> 00:23:35,269 GED DOCHERTY: trusting relationship, a sustained, 554 00:23:35,270 --> 00:23:38,479 GED DOCHERTY: trusting relationship with our parents. 555 00:23:38,480 --> 00:23:41,449 GED DOCHERTY: The nature of social work is that people 556 00:23:41,450 --> 00:23:43,849 GED DOCHERTY: will come and go. The nature of social work 557 00:23:43,850 --> 00:23:47,029 GED DOCHERTY: is that a case may travel through 558 00:23:47,030 --> 00:23:49,920 GED DOCHERTY: different teams. So there may be the team who 559 00:23:49,921 --> 00:23:53,689 GED DOCHERTY: first meets the family, does a pre-birth 560 00:23:53,690 --> 00:23:56,569 GED DOCHERTY: assessment, and then the assessment is 561 00:23:56,570 --> 00:23:59,779 GED DOCHERTY: concluded. It's onto the next stage. 562 00:23:59,780 --> 00:24:02,123 GED DOCHERTY: That social worker passes that family onto 563 00:24:02,124 --> 00:24:05,089 GED DOCHERTY: the next social worker, who will do 564 00:24:05,090 --> 00:24:07,069 GED DOCHERTY: their part of their process. 565 00:24:07,070 --> 00:24:10,099 GED DOCHERTY: But we have continuously been 566 00:24:10,100 --> 00:24:13,669 GED DOCHERTY: the golden thread through that situation. 567 00:24:13,670 --> 00:24:16,999 GED DOCHERTY: Our practice-based approach 568 00:24:17,000 --> 00:24:20,449 GED DOCHERTY: is something which makes parents 569 00:24:20,450 --> 00:24:23,479 GED DOCHERTY: themselves feel safe about. 570 00:24:23,480 --> 00:24:26,569 GED DOCHERTY: Parents will often say in meetings, "Will 571 00:24:26,570 --> 00:24:28,669 GED DOCHERTY: you tell them? Because you know, you know 572 00:24:28,670 --> 00:24:30,980 GED DOCHERTY: what I'm talking about." In terms of the work 573 00:24:30,981 --> 00:24:34,219 GED DOCHERTY: you and I often in co-production, 574 00:24:34,220 --> 00:24:36,249 GED DOCHERTY: born into care, all of that stuff — 575 00:24:36,250 --> 00:24:39,289 GED DOCHERTY: consistently, parents will say they 576 00:24:39,290 --> 00:24:43,069 GED DOCHERTY: are wary of telling their story 577 00:24:43,070 --> 00:24:44,719 GED DOCHERTY: repetitively. 578 00:24:44,720 --> 00:24:46,669 GED DOCHERTY: And some of our parents have been doing that 579 00:24:46,670 --> 00:24:49,039 GED DOCHERTY: since they were children because they may 580 00:24:49,040 --> 00:24:51,409 GED DOCHERTY: have been involved in the system themselves, 581 00:24:51,410 --> 00:24:53,509 GED DOCHERTY: subject to child protection plans. 582 00:24:53,510 --> 00:24:56,569 GED DOCHERTY: They may be care experienced and for a 583 00:24:56,570 --> 00:24:59,569 GED DOCHERTY: significant period of time they have 584 00:24:59,570 --> 00:25:01,729 GED DOCHERTY: been telling their story. 585 00:25:01,730 --> 00:25:04,939 GED DOCHERTY: In our trauma-informed approach, we are very 586 00:25:04,940 --> 00:25:06,769 GED DOCHERTY: much led by them. 587 00:25:06,770 --> 00:25:09,709 GED DOCHERTY: It's a person-centred approach which gives 588 00:25:09,710 --> 00:25:13,039 GED DOCHERTY: them the time and space to be able to 589 00:25:13,040 --> 00:25:16,009 GED DOCHERTY: process their experiences. In giving 590 00:25:16,010 --> 00:25:18,739 GED DOCHERTY: time and space and supporting that person to 591 00:25:18,740 --> 00:25:21,949 GED DOCHERTY: process, understand, come to terms 592 00:25:21,950 --> 00:25:25,159 GED DOCHERTY: with, that in and of itself 593 00:25:25,160 --> 00:25:28,309 GED DOCHERTY: reduces — or can reduce — 594 00:25:28,310 --> 00:25:30,499 GED DOCHERTY: lots of harmful behaviours. 595 00:25:30,500 --> 00:25:33,529 GED DOCHERTY: And it starts with the parent 596 00:25:33,530 --> 00:25:37,489 GED DOCHERTY: recognising their own harmful behaviours 597 00:25:37,490 --> 00:25:40,909 GED DOCHERTY: and how they impact on self 598 00:25:40,910 --> 00:25:43,939 GED DOCHERTY: and others, and that is the foundation 599 00:25:43,940 --> 00:25:45,739 GED DOCHERTY: of your safeguarding. If you can keep 600 00:25:45,740 --> 00:25:48,529 GED DOCHERTY: yourself and your partner safe and you have a 601 00:25:48,530 --> 00:25:51,769 GED DOCHERTY: loving, healthy, secure 602 00:25:51,770 --> 00:25:55,069 GED DOCHERTY: and strong attachment to your baby, you 603 00:25:55,070 --> 00:25:56,440 GED DOCHERTY: are going to keep your baby safe. 604 00:26:04,090 --> 00:26:05,379 GEORGE LINFIELD (PRODUCER): That's the end of part one of our 605 00:26:05,380 --> 00:26:06,969 GEORGE LINFIELD (PRODUCER): discussion on supporting parents 606 00:26:06,970 --> 00:26:08,859 GEORGE LINFIELD (PRODUCER): through adversity. In part two, 607 00:26:08,860 --> 00:26:10,449 GEORGE LINFIELD (PRODUCER): available now, Colin and Ged 608 00:26:10,450 --> 00:26:12,009 GEORGE LINFIELD (PRODUCER): will talk about why it's so important 609 00:26:12,010 --> 00:26:13,449 GEORGE LINFIELD (PRODUCER): to involve fathers in early 610 00:26:13,450 --> 00:26:14,450 GEORGE LINFIELD (PRODUCER): intervention. 611 00:26:18,860 --> 00:26:21,229 CONCLUSION: Thanks for listening to this NSPCC Learning 612 00:26:21,230 --> 00:26:22,519 CONCLUSION: podcast. 613 00:26:22,520 --> 00:26:25,159 CONCLUSION: At the time of recording this episode, content 614 00:26:25,160 --> 00:26:27,589 CONCLUSION: was up to date but the world of safeguarding 615 00:26:27,590 --> 00:26:30,169 CONCLUSION: and child protection is ever changing. 616 00:26:30,170 --> 00:26:32,239 CONCLUSION: So, if you're looking for the most current 617 00:26:32,240 --> 00:26:33,764 CONCLUSION: safeguarding and child protection training, 618 00:26:34,940 --> 00:26:37,939 CONCLUSION: information or resources, please visit 619 00:26:37,940 --> 00:26:40,039 CONCLUSION: our website for professionals at 620 00:26:40,040 --> 00:26:41,040 CONCLUSION: nspcc.org.uk/learning.